Reported by:
EFFORTPOST Frick It -- Fire Emblem Effortpost :marseyedelgard: :marseymarth:

Your honor, my client could not have been the one to strike Mr. Rittenhouse. You see, the state of Minnesota is a Fire Emblem state, and Mr. Huber is a licensed Fighter class. As such, he can only move 4 tiles per turn and could NOT have been able to reach the 5 tiles it took to be in attack range of Mr. Rittenhouse. The prosecution rests.


Feels weird to post something like this so soon after the recent news :marseytrumpss: but weebshit waits for no man

Today's RWBYffort post is about the superior Nintendo slop saga :marseyhmmhips: (Inb4 some :marseynerd2: in the comments says Advance Wars) It may not be the deepest thing in regards to writing or strategic gameplay, nor was it built around a grand and inspiring concept like Spore, but I think these games are fun af :marseyzoomer: and you have to give them credit for chugging along thirty three years running :marseyracistgrandpa:

Fire Emblem is a turn based strategy game series known for its rpg influences and focus on narrative. It basically codified the tactical role playing subgenre and some people actually do outright refer to the games as RPGs. It was originally very niche but has grown over the years to become one of Nintendo's flagship franchises. I would seriously argue it has surpassed the likes of Metroid :marseychadfoid: or Donkey Kong :donkeykongsad: in importance among Nintendo's line up.

Some people have serious issues with it.

What set the games apart back in the day was the emphasis on storytelling and the way this paradigm influenced gameplay. FE's basic formula involves controlling an army of units on a grid in a standard turn based strategy manner, but unlike Advance Wars, Nobunaga's Ambition, XCOM, or many other games of the type, Fire Emblem units are not randomly generated nor is there ever a guarantee of replacing losses. The units of your army are very much like companions in an RPG; they're a finite amount of characters with set in stone, predefined strengths and weaknesses and fighting styles, and they're unique and named individuals rather than abstractions of, say, a swordsman or a sniper or a whatever else. Until more recently every game was also built around non-optional permadeath so losing these companions/units in battle could set back your campaign considerably even to the point of it becoming soft unwinnable. Fire Emblem's unique combination of difficulty and RPG elements in a turn based strategy series immediately earned it a small but dedicated fandom.

I used to love Fire Emblem but then they discovered the weeb waifu market and went from Kino strategy games to waifu match making simulators. Gatekeep your hobbies or this is inevitable.


Though nowadays the newer games are also (in)famous for waifu-ism and dating sim elements not unlike what you'd see out of modern Persona games or BioWare rpgs. It even has a gacha game that's been going for the better half of a decade :marseycoomer2: It's created an interesting fanbase that can be split into three distinct groups,

If I had the choice, I would eliminate not 100, not 200, but 100,000 CASUALS WAS I GIVEN THE CHANCE. You casuals will never understand the constant pain we felt from YEARS of oppression, which you gladly caused immediately after killing Fire Emblem in ONE YEAR. You hate us Elitists, because we know the truth! The ONLY way to fix Fire Emblem is for you vile casuals to bleed! Once you casuals are purged from our Emblem havens, we will finally MAKE FIRE EMBLEM GREAT AGAIN 👑👑👑🙇🙇🔥🔥🔥🗿🔥🔥🔥🙇🙇👑👑👑


The Elitists :marseyking:

/feh/ is the worst thread on /vg/… constant ritualposting, the first dozen posts of every thread is made up of the same posts made by the same people in every thread, usually unfunny jokes about their husbando/waifu

gigaschizos who will spam the thread the very instant someone says something about a particular hero (i.e. Nina)

zero discussion about game mechanics whatsoever

"what mode"


The Casuals :pepezoomerhair:

Never cared about Strag Emblem other than for its BBC snowbunnies :chad:


And Der Coomer :marseycoomer:

So just how did this longrunning genre defying and defining series come to be? And how has it evolved since then?

The First Fire Emblem :marseymarth:

Everyone wanted to know what kind of game it was. Back then there was nothing like it, and I would say it's closer to an RPG than a simulation game. So at Square, when it came out, we bought it right away, and everyone gathered together to play and study it. I can't say it was the easiest game to pick up and play, but I felt something very special and addicting in it. And of course I've been playing it ever since!

— Hironobu Sakaguchi (Creator of Final Fantasy)

The first Fire Emblem game debuted on the Famicom way back in April 20th, 1990. At the time many of Japan's game journos found it confusing and strangely unlike anything in the conventional strategy genre, but this was also the very quality that endeared it to fans. Fire Emblem may not have invented "tactical rolepaying" but was a huge step forward. Arguably the first game to hit it big while being all in for that genre, rather than just dabbling in it.

Brief History of TRPGs :marseycheckmate:

A tactical roleplaying game is something of a nebulous subgenre that combines strategy game aspects with those of RPGs, usually leaning slightly towards one or the other. The games owe some of their inspiration to classic tabletop RPG games in which stats and strategy controlled encounters and forced players to think about their actions.

Some earlier RPGs to feature major strategy elements include 1982's Tunnels of Doom, The Dragon and Princess and Ultima III: Exodus. 83's Bokosuka Wars featured an army in phalanx formation that had to be led across a battlefield in real-time against overwhelming enemy forces while freeing and recruiting soldiers along the way, with each unit also able to gain experience and level up through battle. Though not turn based, the game did introduce tile based combat involving a party of characters and can be said to have laid the groundwork for future games like Fire Emblem. 88's Silver Ghost is another early example of such a game in real-time format.

Fire Emblem's direct predecessor within Nintendo was 88's Famicom Wars, the first game in the Wars series that is now better known for Advance Wars. This game was Nintendo's early foray into strategy games and was also the first such game to be developed by Intelligent Systems, the developers of Fire Emblem.

The game features turn based control of units and particular map objectives that must be accomplished in order to complete missions, but it lacks the fantasy and RPGs elements of IS's later property.

These attributes may have been inspired by 88's Master of Monsters, itself a game that took the gameplay of a militaristic predecessor (the Daisenryaku games) and applied fantasy themes. Master of Monsters is turn based and features an army of units on a board with a master unit that triggers a game over if killed (:marseymarthgenocide:) It notably featured experience bars for the character units.

Kaga himself also cites 88's First Queen as another strategy influence. More traditional RPG influences for Fire Emblem include none other than Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest.

Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light :marseygharnef:

I call it "roleplaying simulation." It's a new genre. Basically, it's a strategy game. But strategy games typically are kind of "hardcore" and dry. (laughs) You only care about winning or losing the battle, and there's no space for the player to empathize with the characters or story.

I love strategy games like that too, but I also love RPGs. By adding RPG elements, I wanted to create a game where the player could get more emotionally invested in what's happening. Conversely, one of the drawbacks of RPGs is that there's always just a single protagonist. Thus, to a certain extent, you can only experience the linear story that the game creator has prepared for you.

I wanted to create a game where the story and game will develop differently for each player depending on the units they use. Thus I added the strategy elements and arrived at this hybrid system.

— Shouzou Kaga

Development for the first Fire Emblem began after Famicom Wars was released and Intelligent Systems decided they wanted a similar war simulation game but with roleplaying elements. Shouzou Kaga was in charge of conceptual design and would go down as the patron saint of elitists the series creator. The project was first proposed to Nintendo by Kaga with a design document detailing all the basic elements, story, and gameplay mechanics. The project was initially called "Battle Fantasy Fire Emblem".

The game's genre necessitated the extensive use of the Famicom cartridge's memory. Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light exceeded these limits, so Intelligent Systems used a portion of memory dedicated to saving games to get around this limitation. With Nintendo's help, they created a new chip for the cartridge that could process and display Japanese text.

I think this is something people understand once they play the game, but most of the characters are usable. And characters who at first seem like crappy, throwaway characters–if you take the time to build them up and nurture them, they can become incredibly powerful. We made a lot of characters like that.

It allows friends to brag to each other, "Hey, I did it this way. Here, let me show you!" I think that's a key difference between Fire Emblem and Dragon Quest. When people share their experiences in a game like Dragon Quest, it's more like "I got here, how far did you get?"… but in Fire Emblem, it's all about "I did it this way."

There hasn't been a lot of room for the player's originality in previous RPGs, because if you gave the player too much control, it would break the structure of the game. That's the advantage of including strategy mechanics: there's a million different ways to accomplish the same goal, and there's actually room for the player to make choices. And the accumulation of all those choices made leads to a very different experience for each player.

I don't consider Marth to be the protagonist either, except in the sense that if he dies, it's game over. It's totally fine to see the story as revolving around the particular characters that you're partial to.

— Kaga

Kaga has said the staff never considered the game as a commercial product but instead as a dōjin made on a whim. To make this game accessible to a wide audience, Kaga did his best to avoid emphasizing stats and other numerical data. It was instead intended that players could find multiple ways to clear the game through their own play style, without being forced to follow a specific meta or take a very linear path. Any combination of units could see you to the end of the game so players could "use their favorites" and there generally wasn't a wrong way to play the game as long as you were getting kills and xp while avoiding casualties.

Yeah, but after restarting [Final Fantasy] who-knows-how-many times, and finally beating it and seeing the ending… it was extremely satsifying. That's why I don't think easy games are so great. Isn't the important thing how you feel after it's all over?

— Kaga

Though at the same time Kaga was a big believer in difficulty and his idea of accessible doesn't line up with modern AAA developers :marseywholesomegenocide: Fire Emblem came to be known for both its unusual concept and the challenging nature of its permadeath mechanic.

What set Fire Emblem apart? :marseysoyswitch:

Kaga: It's not a big problem if some of your characters die in Fire Emblem; I want each player to create their own unique story. Don't get caught up trying to get a "perfect ending." Have fun!

— Kaga (This advice is ignored by almost every FE fan :marseyxd:)

To be sure, Fire Emblem is turn based strategy first and foremost but draws inspiration from RPGs not just in narrative, but in the gameplay regarding how your army is handled.

Units in FE are not randomly generated and generic grunts, but named characters who will always appear and be recruited in the same way. Narratively they have small snippets of personality and premise that can influence a mission. As examples; Matthis starts as an enemy looking for his lost sister Lena and can only be recruited by her, Navarre is horny an edgelord and so will fight Prince Marth to the death but join the player if spoken to by Princess Caeda, Tiki is a brainwashed dragon girl and can only be freed and recruited by fellow member of her kind Bantu.

In gameplay each unit has predefined strengths and weaknesses. Older games also assign each one a permanent class though class changing became possible later in the series. The differences between classes isn't at all unlike how units work in countless other strategy games, for example you may enjoy x and y because they're both cavaliers or a and b because they're both archers.

But each unit being a distinct person also gives them stat based differences from each other, like x being stronger and y being faster, or a dealing more damage per shot and b being more likely to land his shots. You're meant to develop a preference for certain characters — because of their personalities, because of their specific strengths regarding their class, or both — and so which units you choose to frontline throughout the game will vary between players to create the emergent storytelling Kaga was going for.

The game also gives you plenty of redundant characters for all the classes in case you lose MPVs in battle. So even if you preferred having x as your star cavalry unit, you can still fall back on y if he dies and soldier on.

I wanted to make a strategy game that was more dramatic, something where you would really be able to feel the pain and struggle of the characters. That's why characters can't be revived once they're killed, to impart a sense of gravity and seriousness. In turn, I think the result is that the more love you have for your characters, the more rewarding the game is.

— Kaga

On that note, Kaga's infamous unit permadeath defines the game and the acceptable strategies that will see you through it. You're always outnumbered in Fire Emblem and you're meant to get through each and every level while minimizing casualties, or ideally not suffering any at all. There are only so many units you can ever have, 52 to be exact, and if you lose a handful each battle then you will assuredly burn out before reaching the end (though Marth can never die or it's automatic game over) This problem is especially acute with specific classes, i.e. there's only a few mages and if you get every one killed you'll just have to learn to play without them. Fire Emblem is also stingy with resources and forces you to use them efficiently or suffer severe opportunity costs. The game's balancing in general favors conservative strategies and mitigation of risk. Kaga may have wanted players to be able to win in different ways, but he also wanted them to have to work for it :zoomersoygenocide:

Fire emblem was also unusual in the amount of effort behind its writing. Most strategy games at the time only had about as much story as Famicom Wars — red :marseyoverseether: vs blue :marseybluecheck: take it or leave it. There wasn't much reason to include anything more since the Famicom only had so much available space.

Fire Emblem was written to have the epic storytelling RPGs were associated and featured extensive backstory inspired by classical Greco-Roman mythology. This was presumably the main reason Marth was originally designed without pants :marseymarmotroman: The evil dragon Medeus was also inspired by those sorts of polytheistic elemental figures and was originally called Gaia. There was also supposed to be a whole second water dragon boss inspired by Neptune but this had to be cut due to hardware limitations.

Kaga wanted multiple playable scenarios to break up the linearity of the missions, but storage limitations made this impossible as well. There was also a plan to create setpiece graphics for major moments of the game as well as events that the player might potentially experience in their runs such as Jagen or Princess Caeda dying in battle. The dev team even adopted a new kind of memory chip to make such an unusually grandiose Famicom game possible, but in the end the chip's one megabyte of memory didn't allow for everything. Even just the amount of text in the game was unusual for the time and required that new chip in order to display properly on a Famicom.

The FE Franchise :marseyedelgard2:

When Fire Emblem first came out on the Famicom, the early reviews were really harsh. Every game magazine gave it pretty bad scores. There weren't really many games back then that combined the RPG and strategy / simulation genres, you see. It stung to see it get so much criticism for being "hard to understand", or for not looking that impressive graphically… for those reasons, the reviews said it felt like some old game from yesteryear.

A half year later, though, Nakaji praised Fire Emblem in that column of his for Famitsu… that was really when things started turning around, and the sales gradually picked up.

— Kaga

Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light would ultimately go on to start a hit franchise, but it was not initially a huge success or popular with contemporary critics. The game's formula was new and many reviewers didn't "get it". It was also criticized for being graphically bland and ugly even by the standards of the time.

In contrast, popular opinion was more positive. In a poll taken by Family Computer Magazine, the game scored 23.48 points out of 30. Likewise, sales of the game were flat for the first two months of sales, but improved after word of mouth had spread. Slowly but surely the game became successful and Nintendo was willing to guarantee a sequel. The experimental hybrid of turn based strategy and RPG won the game its dedicated fanbase and would inspire many other game devs to create similar titles.

In Japan :marseyjapanese: FE 1 is renowned for properly kicking off the tactical roleplaying genre and influencing many other such game franchises. The game doesn't have such a universal reputation in the west, but that's mainly because Fire Emblem wasn't released internationally until FE7 in 2003. By that point weebs had become more familiar with newer entries like the Shining, Ogre, and Disgaea series as well as Final Fantasy Tactics, but these are all games that were developed after Fire Emblem that often took direct inspiration from it.

Within Nintendo, Fire Emblem was also influential for that live action "opera" commercial as well as the magazine previews. Nintendo would continue this multimedia advertising going forward and applied it to existing franchises like Mario :turtoisemindblown: and Zelda :marseykingharkinian:

FE4 was the first one where it was turned into a eugenics simulator and that was when the original creator was still on board before he left after 5. Granted it was actually kind of interesting because in 4 they straight-up kill off almost the entire main cast so their children that you bred for have to continue.

From then on you have 6-8 as the GBA games which were okay but the plots were mostly just average with some fun character moments strewn about. 9 and 10 were on the GameCube and Wii and had better stories, but basically nobody played them.

They then made two remakes for FE1 and FE3 on the DS which were actually fun but their art style was garbage so no one bought them either.

Awakening was the game that revitalized the series a bit and really went crazy with the matchmaking + eugenics aspect that started in 4. Fates did it even more but upped the incest and fetishes.

Fates was criticized for really dumb plots and 1 dimensional character writing despite having some good gameplay so from there the team took a step back, teamed up with the guys who made dynasty warriors and made 3 Houses.

The thing is people were so fricking mad at how badly Fates' plot was even in Japan that they had to look to something like Persona to keep the dating simulator shit in-tact while still telling a story that was at least passable.

How to make it a tactics game again? It's a bit hard to get rid of the persona elements since 3H was immensely successful. FE Engage which came out recently is a bit more of a return to the GBA style gameplay but the writing is back to being weird. I have to imagine future releases will still include the Persona style shit in it.

— Ghost comment

In the next section I'll give a short overview of the franchise's evolution from FE2 to the present day. I'll try to be brief but I could also make dedicated effortposts on the more notable games if anyone wanted :marseyshy3:

Sequels: The Kaga Era :boomerjam:

When you defend the Three-Fates-Awoken games, you do not receive love from Maeda, not even a PINCH of respect. Instead, after your long, tight peepeesuck, he pulls up his pants and says, "That sure was a peepeesuck, I guess?" then he leaves you in the brothel without a tip like the rest of his lesser evolved casual simps.

You get no respect, no thanks. No NOTHING. To IS and Maeda, you're just another naive, juicy casual child plump with organs to sell on the black market, so they can use the earnings to ruin the franchise even more and keep poor fools living on licorice and cup noodle running their corporate machine.

On the flip side, when I defend Genealogy of the Holy War, me and Kaga have respect, AS MEN. As a consumer, not only has he benefited me, but I have benefited him by maintaining his legacy. Unlike Three-Fates-Awoken casuals who SHIT on it daily, they don't even know what the frick a Thracia is.


The era all the elitists love :soyjakanimeglasses: though very few of them actually played Gaiden.

The second Fire Emblem game was 1992's Gaiden, the last developed for the Famicom. This game features new main characters and set the series standard of most games taking place in new areas, though the continent here is part of the same world as FE1. Gaiden is also retroactively notable for including some mechanics — like a world map, branching storylines, and unbreakable weapons — that were unusual at the time but would reappear in newer games many years later. Gaiden was also popular and commercially viable though it would go down as kind of a weird game, sometimes compared to Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels, Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, and Castlevania II: Simon's Quest as the "black sheep" of the series.

Next came 1994's Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem for the Super Famicom, a story sequel to the first game that also includes a short retelling/remake of FE1 (there was originally going to be a Super Famicom remake of 1 before its development was merged with FE3's)

FE3 was made to be easier :noob: and introduced support conversations to the franchise — a mechanic where characters can talk to each other outside of battle for the benefit of weebs fujoshis people who appreciate storytelling. FE3 sold well and further established Marth as the face of the franchise :marseymarthpat: (though FE doesn't have a true mascot like other major Nintendo properties)

1994's Genealogy of the Holy War was an ambitious soft reboot of the series (set in the same world but in the distant past on another continent) It's also the game every elitist creams their pants over even if they never actually played it and are just trying to fit in :marseymoidmomentpat:

FE4 added the weapon triangle where sword beats axe, axe beats lance, and lance beats sword — a mechanic that has reappeared ever since along with additional variations. The game has an increased emphasis on storytelling and worldbuilding, and the missions are famously long and massive with battle maps being synonymous with entire chunks of the continent. FE4 was actually the first game in the series to introduce romance and "dating sim" elements though it was done for a particular reason. As the game goes on all the first generation characters will eventually die :marseyflamepoint: and are replaced as playable units by their children :marseychingchongchild: The second generation units have their stat values and personal skills influenced by the assigned attributes of their parents and their talents can vary wildly depending on pairings.

Kaga's last game and the favorite of the super elitist. Thracia 776 is something like a side story to Genealogy and was released in 1999 through a Nintendo Power Cartridge — a video game distribution service for the Super Famicom and GameBoy.

Thracia is known among the ten people who actually played it for its added fatigue system that punishes overuse of individual units and its unintuitive levels (elitists actually enjoy this :marseykink:) One of the more infamous levels involves escaping with your army across a map. Something that isn't clear to everyone especially considering the language barrier is that protagonist Leif should be the last to cross the line. Sending him away first will end the level and literally delete the rest of your army :marseyaware:

Thracia was originally meant to be just one of several potential "add-ons" to FE4 — dlc obviously wasn't a thing back then but Kaga still desired expansions of sorts to Genealogy. Thracia's delayed development made releasing it as anything but another game unviable, and its launch promptly ended the Judgral era of the series, but it's still interesting to think of what might have been. Kaga was fascinated with the idea of telling FE4's war story across different POVs and was even considering a game from antagonist Arvis' perspective :marseyflamewar:

FE4 and 5 are also famous for incest (and they wouldn't be the last :marseywerebackchingchong:)

GBA to Tellius to DS: FE6 - 12

The series started to go downhill when the anime visuals started to turn into the aesthetic of the entire series. It was better when the it was just the coincidental art style for bootleg rehashes of Hamlet and psuedo Romances. When they branched into making proper weebshit the kitch charm of the Medieval Romances was gone, having most female units be archers and magic users with the occasional Joan D'Arc style knight was cool, now it's just generic jap fantasy. I want my Song of Roland simulators back.


The era that introduced filthy casuals :marseycringe2: also known as westerners :amerimuttdance: Elitists do favor the Tellius games though. A handful of coomers were also born thanks to Lyn and her Mongolian underwear.

Shouzou Kaga left Intelligent Systems after Thracia's release and went on to make Tear Ring Saga for the PlayStation, another elitist favorite. The series continued without him and finally made it to international release starting with 7.

The Binding Blade was released for the Game Boy Advance in 2002 and was the first game in the series on a handheld console. It was also the first to depict an entirely new setting with no connections to previous games. It features branching mission paths to a greater degree than previous games and has toned down difficulty after Thracia filtered normal people.

Fire Emblem

And I'm out. Knowing that there is a Fire Emblem game called Super Smash Brothers is already enough for me. Their shitty fans can throw themselves over the bridge.


It was also around this time that Super Smash Bros. Melee was released :marseypedo: Smash Bros creator Sakurai :marseykirby2: is a big fan of Fire Emblem and Marth was originally meant to appear in the very first game. He finally made it in with Melee alongside The Binding Blade protagonist Roy, the latter to advertise that at the time upcoming game (starting a tradition regarding FE and Smash Bros :marsey57:)

Back then no Fire Emblem game had ever released outside of Japan and it was intended that Melee's localizers would simply remove the two for the international copies. They didn't :marseyderp: and many westerners were introduced to the series for the very first time through these two mysterious swordsmen they knew nothing about. Marth and Roy proved popular though, and by Nintendo's admission this contributed to the expansion of the next game's release.

Meanwhile Fire Emblem characters have continued to show up in newer Smash Bros titles. Many Smash fans absolutely despise this fact so make sure to remind them at every turn :soymariogenocide:

Released in 2003 as just Fire Emblem in some markets, The Blazing Blade was the first to be available worldwide and finally brought the franchise to the attention of the west. The game is a prequel to Binding Blade and features Roy's father Eliwood Roy from the hit game Smash Bros.

FE7's success saw the birth of the Anglosphere fandom and is where most of the thirty year old boomers were introduced to the series :platyold: This game was also the first to include multiplayer, though that feature does not universally reappear and tends to be off and on across releases. It's technically the first game to feature a self-insert stand in for the player in the form of the tactician Mark, but he's not actually playable.

The last game for the GBA, 2004's The Sacred Stones created yet another unique setting and brought back the overworld map from Gaiden. It also introduces branching class evolutions, for example a cavalier can be promoted into either a Paladin or a Great Knight.

This game is also known for incest, though it's actually unfair in this case :marseyindignant:

Bring back radiant dawn era Ike, just a bear of a man single handedly destroying entire countries


For a time there was a Fire Emblem every year, and the series returned to home consoles in 2005 with Path of Radiance for the GameCube. FE9 was a more "big budget" release and was the first to feature 3D graphics, full motion cutscenes, and voice acting. There are also playable furries :marseyloona:

2007's Radiant Dawn for the Wii returns to the previous game's Tellius setting, creating a duology much like FE6/7. It was the last time the elitists were ever happy :marseychonkerindignant2genocide:

The game has new protagonist Micaiah :marseyfujo: alongside Ike from the previous game Super Smash Bros. Brawl. They lead two different armies and there are times when the player must actually fight units from your other controllable army :marseysaluteconfederacy: There's also a unique save file transfer that allows you to inherit bonuses from a Path of Radiance playthrough. Other changes include a high ground :marseyvader: bonus, double promotions on classes, and expanded supports so any unit can support any other unit instead of just a few. To my knowledge this is also the only FE with crossbows :marseyhoodwink:

But what FE 9 and 10 are really remembered for was low sales despite their positive reception and popular reputations into the present. Path of Radiance had middling sales compared to the GBA games, but Nintendo was still willing to give it a sequel. Radiant Dawn's performance made them rethink the viability of the series and almost killed Fire Emblem outright.

The Tellius series' poor performance has been blamed on a variety of factors; poor marketing from Nintendo especially in the west, the "sudden" transition to home consoles (from a western perspective), difficult competition from the big name games of 2007 :marseymasterchief: GameCube unpopularity for 9, being a sequel to a game not everyone had heard of for 10, and so on.

Whatever the cause, Radiant Dawn's poor sales alarmed the Nips :marseysuit: and the next two games were scaled back.

2008's FE11 was the series' first remake, a modernized take on Marth's original adventure for the Nintendo DS. The game was made on a reduced team and budget and played it safe, notably returning to handheld and finally fulfilling the FE1 redo that had been tossed around as an idea since Kaga's time.

Shadow Dragon actually made a significant improvement to the series by adding class changes beyond promotions. For the first time units could be swapped into entirely different classes, i.e. your cavalier could now be a mage or archer or whatever else. Individual characters still have their talents and may not perform well in certain roles, but the choice is yours. The game otherwise left out narrative developments, and one of the main criticisms was the lack of long since expected support conversations.

Anecdotally Shadow Dragon was my first FE :marseylaying: and I think there's a lot to like about it, but the game was generally disliked at the time especially in the west where fans had no nostalgia for 1 and compared it unfavorably to Blazing Blade. Because of poor sales overseas,

2010's FE12 was only released in Japan, the last Nip exclusive and almost the last FE at all. New Mystery of the Emblem is a remake of 3 without the original's partial FE1 retelling. It continues Shadow Dragon's modernizations along with expanded supports. It also introduces OC Kris, the first "avatar" or "MyUnit" to be a playable character. Kris' appearance is customizable and can be made into any starting class. Purists hated the self-insert and still do :marseyindignantturn: but this would become a tradition going forward.

New Mystery is also popular with the fandom but didn't sell well either. In the long run Fire Emblem had been on a downward trend with the original FE3 still the best selling game in Japan as of 12's release. Blazing Blade was a breakout hit thanks to an international release but western sales soon fell off. Nintendo wouldn't have continued at all if weren't for the following entry.

Dating Sims Persona Modern Fire Emblem :marseydimitri:

Fire Emblem has been trash for years now anyway, it went from a Kino butt series about warfare and tactics into a fricking weeaboo waifu match making simulator with more p-do bait then a middle school volleyball game.

Pretty much everything after Radiant Dawn is dog water unless its a remake of an older game.

-- @GubeRubenstein

The era of coomers, with normie casuals in second place. Elitists desperately cling to Conquest to sustain themselves.

Always something of a niche franchise even in the best of days, Fire Emblem exploded in popularity with 13 and immediately went from life support to one of Nintendo's A-listers. This success continues into the present and has guaranteed intentional releases for all subsequent games. There have also been a few spin-offs.

Awakening could honestly be its own post and is arguably the most impactful besides 1. Awakening started development as what may have been the last Fire Emblem and was made as something of a swan song. Among the staff members were veterans of the Fire Emblem series, including project manager Masahiro Higuchi, who had first worked on Genealogy, and Intelligent Systems producer Kouhei Maeda :@bruhfunny_thrallpat: who first worked as a scenario writer for Binding Blade.

Released in 2012 on the 3DS, Awakening returns to the original setting but advanced two thousand years into the future. Regular protagonists Chrom and Lucina are even descendants of Marth. A few justifiably long lived characters return for the narrative and the dubiously canon spotpass levels allow characters from every previous game to become playable units. The game balances its own storyline along with 12 games worth of easter eggs.

Awakening also furthered 12's innovation through the (in)famous self-insert protagonist Robin. As an avatar/MyUnit Robin is something like a BioWare/Bethesda protagonist and is completely customizable. Robin is also set up to be completely overpowered and comes with both a unique class and the ability to become almost any other class, excelling at any role you give them. Robin can also bone literally every other playable character :shmoopy: and there's no denying how much this contributed to the game's popularity among certain people :marseyembarassingpurchase:

Indeed, Awakening went full r-slur with romance and shipping and created a now recurring mechanic where supports between certain characters could reach an intimate S rank to pair them off. The player can choose their own waifu with Robin and then play matchmaker with your other eligible bachelors and bachelorettes, a development that attracted everyone from turbo-coomers to tumblr types writing 500,000 word OTP fanfics.

Said shipping also brings back the child units from FE4, except that they now coexist with their parents thanks to time travel :marseyfortuneteller: Your exact pairings between potential mothers and fathers will change their stats and inherited abilities. Child units can easily end up stronger than any first gen character and the game's harder difficulties all but require you to play eugenics simulator :marseyauthright:

Awakening's other gameplay improvements include pairing up units to support each other in combat/map movement, a modified reclassing system that can be gamed for practically unlimited level ups, and benefits to placing units beside each other on the map like stat bonuses and blocking of enemy attacks. The game was also the first to finally do away with non negotiable permadeath, the final obstacle to the casual infestation :marseyitsover: Casual mode allows fallen characters to simply return at the end of a chapter. Awakening offers a wide variety of difficulty settings in general, some of the easiest and hardest in franchise history, and all with both casual and the permadeath enabled "classic" as options. The game is particularly infamous for "Lunatic Plus" which is designed to screw you with rng.

Awakening was also the first Fire Emblem to receive downloadable content. It even got an expansion of sorts, The Future Past.

…do you reckon that it has more to do with Awakening propelling a new era of the series to emphasize more of the weeby waifu/husbando proto-gacha simulator, or is the blame on Smash for making FE popular to begin with?

Awakening was a real yolo attempt from the devs, series had to adapt or die.

-- @AmericanShippingCompany and @Fabrico

Awakening was massively successful on release. The devs were told during production that Fire Emblem would be discontinued if the game failed to sell 250,000 copies -- upon release the game reached that goal in its first week. FE13 would be like Blazing Blade on steroids, bringing in a massive wave of brand new fans and placing the franchise solidly on Nintendo's radar. As of January 2017, the game has sold-through 1.9 million copies worldwide, with 500,000 copies sold in Japan and 1.4 million copies elsewhere.

2015's Fates is an original setting but is very much in the same vein as Awakening. It continues the majority of FE13's developments including shipping, child units, and a new avatar. Fates' main gimmick was a release not unlike how Pokémon games are done. Birthright and Conquest are two separate campaigns that both received full priced physical releases. The full experience requires you to buy one and then pay to digitally download the other. A third Golden Ending campaign, Revelation, was released later as a digital download. It didn't have a physical release outside of the game's super duper limited edition that retailed for something like seventy dollars :marseyasianmerchant:

In fairness the three campaigns feature unique levels and rosters. Conquest in particular was designed to be tougher with limited resources for an old timey FE experience :marseyoldtimey: Still, Nintendo's model for Fates wasn't appreciated by the fan base and generated backlash. The game sold well but the Nips actually listened and haven't attempted this again.

This game is also known for incest.

This period also saw several Fire Emblem spin-offs for the first time. Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE was a 2015 crossover with Shin Megami Tensei.

Fire Emblem Heroes is a 2017 gacha game built like so many other examples of the genre. It's far from the deepest game but it generates tons of money because of images like this.

Not much else to say about it really :marseypathetic:

Another 2017 spin-off, Warriors is a Dynasty Warriors esque game made by Omega Force and Team Ninja from Koei Tecmo. The game wasn't the end of this partnership.

The next 2017, mainline, and final 3DS FE game was a remake of Gaiden of all things and so far the last remake made. Like Shadow Dragon, Shadows of Valentia preserves some of the original, mainly map design and cantor spam :shakefist: but includes radical changes like visiting villages and limited third person dungeon crawling. Perhaps the most significant was a turn rewind mechanic that allows players to undo oopsies :marseyteehee: and replay turns without having to reset the map. So far this addition has been permanent.

The game was popular but also suffered the same curse as all other games the elitists don't hate -- sales were far lower than Fates. It's uncertain if Nintendo was planning any other remakes but that hasn't stopped people from asking for Genealogy :marseybeanpleading:

The one you've probably heard of, 2019's Three Houses for the Switch was another massive boon for the series and remains the best selling title. In many ways a take two on Fates, FE16 includes multiple campaigns without charging extra and intentionally avoided having a single best ending -- people die in every possible route :marseyparty: Class changing is less restricted than ever and rewinding time is made part of the game's balance. The game also adds new game plus bonuses that make it easier on subsequent playthroughs if desired. Slice of life activities in your main base can provide bonuses to your units in battle. Waifu-ism remains but the game's not as sexualized as its predecessors. Note that it's @birdenthusiast approved :marseythumbsup:

Three Houses wasn't developed by Intelligent Systems alone and Koei Tecmo was brought in to contribute after Warriors was finished. The game's scenario was written by Koei Tecmo's Yuki Ikeno, Ryohei Hayashi and Mari Okamoto which would explain why it wasn't as terrible as Fates and the next game.

This partnership also led to another Warriors game, this time set entirely within Three Houses' setting as an alternative timeline.

Three Houses is also notable for the sheer amount of autism it has inspired. The game's multiple routes/waifu wars have generated unending discourse and flamebaiting that continue to the present day. rDrama has covered this more than once.

The most recent Fire Emblem, 2023's Engage is kind of a shitpost mainline entry. It features an original setting but also has a crossover plot involving past FE protagonists. The game's gimmick is the ability to ENGAGE :marseyletsfuckinggo2: with past FE characters to give temporary upgrades and powers to whichever unit equips their summoning ring. Other developments include a more prominent weapon triangle, chain attacks and chain guards, and a less egregious home base system compared to Three Houses.

I refuse to play the new fire emblem for this reason lmao. I played Three Houses and thought it was pretty fun but they immediate reverted back to coomer shit like Awakening and Fates for the next entry for some reason.

-- @birdenthusiast

Engage sold less than FE16 and has a reputation little better than Fates'. Its drama is even more r-slurred than Three Houses'.

Time will tell how Fire Emblem develops in the future :marseynintendo:

But at this rate it's probable elitists will soon go extinct :marseygameritsover:

And with that rDrama is now familiar with Nintendo's best series.

Genealogy remake for the Switch 2? :marseyklennyplead:

This effortpost is dedicated to its patron @birdenthusiast :marseyedelgard3:


Any game where you can make galaxy-conquering peepee monsters is a good game.


And that title really isn't exaggerating. Spore is nothing short of a life simulation god game that, in a complete playthrough, charts the development of a player created species across billions of years. The game begins with the evolution of literal zooplankton on your planet and "ends" with the establishment of a galactic spacefaring empire stretching across the Milky Way. Sure, it didn't live up to its incredible hype in the eyes of many players. Sure, the game itself is fundamentally just a collection of mini games tied together by the editor system. Sure, it more or less led to the end of Maxis as an independent entity that made anything besides Sims expansion packs :marseydarkfoidretard:

Even so, you can't deny the sheer ambition behind it all :taymindblown:

"The first time I talked to [Will Wright] he said he wanted this to be a game about Drake's equation. The improbability of our universe. He wanted players to go through all these deep failures so they'd appreciate how incredible it is that we are here. He came off that quickly though, but it was clear how massive he wanted it to be early on."

— Lead Designer Chris Trottier

Spore was intended to be the ultimate simulation game and the culmination of creator Will Wright's long career in the genre. Originally conceived as "SimEverything" back in the 90's, Spore was meant to be Wright's dream game and was funded with high hopes from EA. After all, Wright's previous game The Sims had become the highest selling computer game of all time by then :marseypie: The game was also imagined as a groundbreaking step in the fields of user generated content and procedural generation, the former to allow potentially infinite replayability and the latter to make sure all that player creativity could actually function in the game.

I'll try to impart the game's sense of scale upon rDrama in the next section.

So what is Spore? :marseyastronaut:

Spore is like baby's A shitty bullet-heck/WOW clone/RTS/and Civ game, all in one. Wide as an ocean and deep as a puddle. A scope too ambitious for its time. A worthy attempt to be sure, but a great game? No.

Being able to share your creations by sharing the PNG was pretty nifty though.

@GovernorOfNewYork and @ResneedingSyndrome

As a game Spore is divided into five stages each with its own style of gameplay and editors. A normal long game will go through the five stages in order, but you can also choose any stage independently and either go from there or not. The editors are used to create, well, just about everything you'll end up seeing in the game. The only things you won't be making are plants and other cells (and these actually exist in the code and can still be used to some extent) The editors can also be accessed from the main menu if you just feel like creating something.

All user created content is further shared through the Sporepedia. It both categorizes and allows you to browse anything made by other players while also auto-downloading user creations in the background as long as you remain connected to the internet.


gameplay is complete shit but i liked making a species that was forced to grab and hold its own butt in front of its face with their nose in the taint.


Each of the five stages is like a microcosm of a distinct game genre. Cell stage is like those games where you play as a fish and eat smaller fish while avoiding bigger ones :marseymegalodon: Creature stage is like a simple rpg :marseything2: Tribal stage has rts elements :marsey300: Civ stage is not unlike the Civilization games :marseynukegoggles: Finally space stage is the god game where you can travel across the entire Galaxy :toddhoward: What ties these activities together is the editor system and the evolutionary line you yourself create and develop. In a long playthrough the game will keep track of how you finish each stage and assign your spacefaring empire an archetype.

The Cell game is meant to be an introduction to the game of Spore and to life itself… We wanted to give the player a familiar game setting — 2D, 360-degree scroller — in which to introduce the basic concepts of Spore gameplay, most notably the process of zooming up in scale and using the creators.

— Will Wright


The first and simplest stage, though funnily it's by far the longest in-universe. This is a top down arcadey game where you make your little guy swim around and eat food without getting eaten. The game starts with your premade "cell" emerging from a comet in a simplified depiction of the panspermia theory. From there you focus on eating meat or plants or both while gaining dna points that allow you to add more complex parts to your evolutionary line. As things progress your guy will go from plankton :marseyvirus: to fish :carpfans: sized and the stage ends with migration to life on land.

Spore was originally going to start the player off with an atomic stage in which you would put different molecules together to create self-replicating amino acids and other such organic molecules. It would have played kinda like Tetris. It was cut because the devs thought it was "too small in scale and too hard to emphasize with". In general many of the more "geeky" ideas from early Spore were cut in favor of making the game more cute and easier for the average player to connect to. This also explains why the cells look more like critters than amoebas. Granted, you do eventually become as big as an animal.

There was also going to be an "aquatic" stage in which the player controlled a larger fish creature before living on land. There were even early ideas to let the player stay in water and potentially build entire civilizations in the ocean.

The idea was cut because the devs didn't like the idea of going from three dimensional navigation underwater to two dimensional navigation on terrain. A major idea for Spore was to have each stage be more complex than the last, and it was felt the aquatic stage sort of messed that up.

Cell stage is very linear and since you meet the same Maxis made cells every playthrough there isn't anything new to see or do beyond adding fishy parts to your colored blob :marseyneuron: The following stage increases user generated content a million fold.

Early in development it became obvious to me that the creature game was going to be the star of the show in many ways — it integrates the strongest creator, and it lets you get close to your creations as well as have the opportunity to meet an endless stream of other player's creations up close and personal.

— Designer Alex Hutchinson


Here you guide your creation from the time it first develops legs (or not :carpderpslugma:) and across the millions of years until your planet's equivalent of the Paleolithic. Along the way you either hunt other creatures to extinction or befriend them or both until your lineage is king of the food chain. The stage ends when your brain becomes large enough to use cowtools :grugthink: and start fires :marseyflamewar:

Arguably what Spore is best remembered for, the creature stage finally gives you the full critter editor. In this stage the game also propagates your save file with user creations taken from the online Sporepedia. This process is automatic but you can also manually search and download any particular creations. In theory no two creature games should ever have the exact same planetary populations.

The coolest piece of tech that was in all of Spore was the procedural animation system. That was the system driving the character animation in the editors. It's what let you build a fully-rigged creature that had nine legs touching the ground and they would all walk naturally.

— Software Engineer Dan Moskowitz

The creature editor is full of different parts (mostly) inspired by different examples of life on Earth. What really makes it though is a unique procedural generation system that allows the game to try and realistically render the movement of any abomination you make, no matter what it ends up shaped like. Your mileage may vary of course, but it's an incredibly interesting system whether you're evolving your creature generation by generation in the stage or just making something from scratch.

Spore allows skilled players to create a variety of complex designs:

Of course there will also be shitposts:

But hey, what are you going to do? :marseyrare:

Hopefully in tribe game, what we walk away with is not only a play experience that has interesting rules, interesting mechanics, and interesting objectives in terms of how you unify the tribes, but also a feeling that this creature that I have evolved now looks advanced and intelligent… It's not only about being functional and compelling gameplay-wise; at the end of the day, it also needs to be fun to watch.

— Producer Matt Powers


At this point the game develops strategic elements and you no longer control an individual. Many players took issue with this and these concerns were addressed in the later Galactic Adventures expansion pack.

In this stage you guide your increasingly advanced critters through a Hunter-gatherer existence and into the age of city building. Your creatures can no longer evolve and change their physiology but it's now possible to outfit them. Subsequent stages add even more outfitting options.

Tribal stage is real time strategy and plays kinda like Populous. You're required to find enough food to both feed your tribe and to employ it as currency when upgrading your encampment and available technology. At all times you stand in competition with other tribes and you must either eradicate them or ally with them or both until your species truly dominates the world. (Spore notably depicts a scenario in which multiple sapient beings evolve on the same world, though it's also possible for your species to be in competition with its earlier ancestors a la Homo Sapiens vs Homo Erectus)

Many players find tribal to be the most difficult stage though it does have its fans. Admittedly the changes between Cell/Creature and Tribal demonstrate one of the game's main criticisms. It shifts rather randomly between gameplay styles.

We wanted to make a simple strategy game, which can sometimes sound like an oxymoron — simple enough that it wasn't going to put off casual players but complex enough that actual g*mers would still find it interesting.

— Alex Hutchinson


Originally there was going to be a city stage in which players managed their growing settlements not unlike SimCity.

It was cut early in development and so this stage plays like a simplified version of Sid Meier's Civilization though it notably jumps immediately into the age of motorized vehicles. You start with one city and all other cities emerge as independent nations. Your ultimate goal is to seize every city and unite your planet one way or the other. In the meantime you make money by taking control of spice geysers (Dune reference :marseysoypoint:) There are a finite amount of these and of course you don't want other nations making more money than you.

Civ stage drastically increases the available editors. The building editors allow four different building types: city hall, factory, entertainment, and house. There's simplified SimCity gameplay involved with creating the ideal city, but the actual editors allow you to make the buildings look however you want them to look. The vehicle editor allows you to create land, sea, and air vehicles that are in turn divided into three classes of military, religious, and economic. Parts used alter a vehicle's stats but there is still great aesthetic freedom available.

Also included is an expanded outfit editor and even a musical city anthem editor :marseyjam:

Your win goal is aggressive by nature so Civ stage expects you to get the ball rolling. Friendly herbivore behavior is replaced with religious conversion :marseycrusade: Adaptable middle of the road gameplay becomes an economic playstyle in which you purchase cities out from under other nations :marseymerchant: Carnivore force simply becomes military conquest :marseytank: The AI here is genuinely against you and rival great powers will soon emerge as smaller nations get absorbed into their neighbors. Towards the end of the game you may see a Cold War showdown in which all other nations are conquered by your rival who then forces a world war upon you. Alternatively if you're friendly with the other main power they will automatically offer to merge their nation with yours. Either way the stage eventually railroads you into globohomo, an effective if simple gameplay/story integration that shows globalization as the endpoint of history :marseyschizowall:

You can also nuke everyone :marseymushroomcloud:

Civilization stage was originally going to lead into a terraforming stage where you would go into space but be limited to just your solar system. You would learn to found colonies and terraform planets to make them habitable before finally inventing an FTL drive. This stage was depicted in the 2005 demo though it was eventually just merged into the tutorial of the next stage.

The space stage is a giant sandbox, interwoven with a light RPG, and it's HUGE. You start off on your home planet that you've been playing on possibly since cell game. You're given a space ship that you create and control. The ship is your avatar and will carry you across the stars, taking you on countless adventures.

— Producer Kip Katsarelis


The final stage begins with your species launching a starship, the same ship you'll play as for the rest of the game. Space stage never truly ends and ultimately evolves into a god game sandbox. It's essentially the other half of Spore and abandons previous paradigms — the strategy aspects disappear but you don't go back to being a creature either. (Not until Galactic Adventures anyway)

The beginning is a grind in which you expand your interstellar empire while acquiring new technology and making money through spice trading :marseysoyswitch: But unlike before you have to do everything yourself with the single spaceship. It's like if the Enterprise from Star Trek had to build the entire Federation by itself and all this happened in the course of one tv show. Along the way you'll make first contact with alien civilizations though the diplomacy here is a little r-slurred. It won't be long before you're vastly superior to any other empire anyway.

Space also serves as the culmination of the game's archetype system. Spore keeps track of how you won the previous stages and assigns red, green, and blue cards based on your playstyle.

Cell: Red for carnivore, green for herbivore, blue for omnivore

Creature: Red for wiping out other species, green for socializing with them, blue for an equal amount of both

Tribal: Red for wiping out other tribes, green for allying with them, blue for an equal amount of both

Civilization: Red for military conquest, green for religious conversion, blue for economic expansion

The cards can be mixed and matched throughout the game and you can enter space with less than four if you start at a later stage. Whatever combination you have determines the "philosophy" of your spacefaring empire.

In practice this system doesn't change much but it's an interesting concept. The idea is that your species' long history all comes together to determine what kind of sci-fi archetype you become.

Space stage is very open ended and doesn't offer a win condition. You're initially given tutorial quests and are eventually encouraged to explore the center of the galaxy by either destroying, allying with, or just outright avoiding the scripted Grox Empire. Otherwise it's a true sandbox.

The Grox look like this (artistic interpretation)

The random generated worlds [of No Man's Sky] wear off quick once you realize it's the same archetypes with different looks. It's like Spore space age, if you were crash landing on every planet instead of being a literal god.


Space comes into its own once you unlock all the cowtools and get into the god game. From this point you're capable of doing whatever you want and can bring all editors into gameplay. The creature editor can be used to fill out the ecosystems of terraformed planets. Colonies can have all their vehicles and buildings personalized as you see fit. Heck you can take the time to give every last colony its own anthem. Planets themselves can be sculpted and recolored, and there are tens of thousands of them in the galaxy.

And all the while your Sporepedia will be downloading creations off the internet to pollinate the planets, ecosystems, and civilizations you discover. Space stage serves as a way to use every editor available and actually see the creations come to life on their own within the galactic sandbox.

I'd argue Spore shares conceptual dna with several later games like No Man's Sky, Starfield, and Stellaris. The genres vary, but these are all exploration focused space games that rely on procedural generation to simulate a sense of discovery. In theory these games all offer infinite content.

Of course Spore also suffers from the same weaknesses as the others. Sure the planets and critters change, but you will eventually reach a point where there isn't anything new to do. The procgen subgenre can be wide but very flat.

Some players love space stage while for others it demonstrates Spore's weaknesses. For what's it's worth, the sheer scale of it all is undeniably impressive, and those who did like Spore would also become fans of the aforementioned titles.

Editors and the Sporepedia

think of it as sharing the DNA template of a creature while the game, like a womb, builds the 'phenotypes' of the animal, which represent a few uploaded and downloaded freely and quickly from the Sporepedia online server. This allows users to asynchronously upload their creations and download other players' content, which enriches the experience of the game as more of its players progress in the game.

— Will Wright

The system that unifies the game and proliferates user content is the Sporepedia. In a game it tracks all content that appears in your save, allowing you to investigate, see the content creators, or ban something from appearing again. From the main menu it can also be used to browse and manually download creations and browse user profiles. Users can also create "sporecasts" that fans can subscribe to so their game downloads creations they've curated by theme.

To make all this possible, the Spore devs developed a new method of 3D model "compression" that allows all the data necessary for the game to load a creation into an editor to exist entirely within a png file no more than about 25kb or so. The Sporepedia arranges creations like a deck of cards with each card containing these pngs. Loaded normally, they look and handle just like basic graphic files. Yet those same files also generate content when used inside the game. To quote a gamefaqs page on the technical details

With a couple of simple DOS commands you can store any file under a header of any other kind of file so that it cane behave as both kinds of files. For example, you can make a .jpg file and actually store an entire program in it. So that when you look at it with an image viewer you just see the jpg part, but when you open it with another application you can see the entire program.

Let's look at how a spore creature is stored. Lets say you add an arm to a creature. Of course you need to know what kind of arm/leg it is. A simple arm just needs an 2 coordinate system telling it where it fits on the body, and I think an extra identification for the vertebrae it's attached to. Then it just needs 2 vectors to store the direction of both the upper and lower arm parts. Then it needs one additional value for each joint to indicate the 'fattness' of it. That's just 9 values it needs to save! And of course it also needs an identification value, making it 10.

Now look at a simple hand/foot part. Each creature has a limited amount of points where you can put a hand/foot, so that's probably 1 variable. It has 3 rotation points, and iirc hands/feet only have two morphing sliders, and an extra 'size' variable. That's only 9 variables, if you include identification.

Extra body parts are combination of these two methods. part id from the editor, part number on the creature, 3 rotation axes, a size, and 2 morphing sliders, vertebrae number or number of the part it's placed on, and location on the body or bodypart or whatever it's placed on. That's about 11 variables.

With conventional methods you would have to store millions of vectors just to save a model. One hand alone would take up more than 25kb. The only problem with this system is that you are limited by the prefab parts that the game offers you and that it doesn't offer you the complete freedom a regular game 3d artist would have to make models. But one look at the sporepedia will tell you that this 'limit' is far beyond what most people will ever need!

It's pretty impressive :marseyclappingglasses: kinda like those illusion porn games cards but used for a more noble purpose :supersquirrel:

The editors are technical marvels in their own right, the creature editor in particular. While the editors for buildings and vehicles amount to sticking shapes together, the creature editor is based around attaching parts to a base vertebrae structure that forms the core of your creature. While it's a more limiting system, the trade off is that the game is equipped to render anything you can come up within its own physics engine complete with the system's best attempt at realistic animations for your creature; running, walking, idle, in combat, doing a mating dance, so on so forth.

s tier game


The main design challenge of the creature editor was making something simple enough that people with no 3D modeling experience could quickly pick up and use that would also allow enough creative freedom to create millions upon millions of unique designs. The main solution was to base the system around metaballs and rigblocks.

The metaballs are 3D balls used for the main body and limbs of creatures. A standard 3D model has a mesh and is defined by a bunch of points in 3D space, connected by edges. In contrast the metaballs are what is called an “implicit surface” and are defined by a mathematical function, rather than points in space. The basic idea is that each metaball has a function associated with it that defines the surface of the metaball. When the metaball is alone this surface looks like a sphere, but when two metaballs get close, their functions get added together, which is why their two surfaces get merged into one.

As you stretch the limbs or spine of a creation, more metaballs get added to ensure a smooth, continuous surface. You can also shrink or grow individual metaballs to make parts of the creature fatter or thinner. Each limb part in Spore comes with a starting number but these can be deleted or more can effortlessly be added, so there's quite a bit of freedom in shaping your creature even when using defined parts.

Meanwhile, the more complicated pieces – hands, mouths, spikes, etc, were created using rigblocks. A rigblock is an individual, hand-crafted body-part that can be snapped onto your creature. Each rigblock has several degrees of freedom that let them be scaled, stretched, and transformed in pre-defined ways.

By combining these two systems, Spore struck a good balance of open-ended player creativity and pre-made artistic assets. The system also guarantees any created creature is compatible with the game's animation system and as mentioned above allows creatures to be stored using a much smaller amount of data than a traditional 3D model.

Conventional animation for the creatures was impossible since your creatures obviously don't exist until you create them. The game handles this entirely through procedural generation. Any given animation is broken into channels, example in a dancing animation one for arms and one for legs. The channels are also broken into queries for different sets of body points, example a creature with multiple pairs of arms. Maybe only the front pair will behave in a certain way, and only the highest pair will behave in a certain other way. Exactly how the animation system sets up is in reaction to the creature editor, example all legs may be animated in the same way if similar in length but some won't be synced if radically longer or shorter. There are also different potential animations that may be done based on variables, example a creature with arms and hands will use them to pick up an item on the ground but a creature without will use its mouth instead. A secondary animation system renders how other body parts not involved with movement will react, i.e. a tail wagging or extremities jiggling. Finally there's a special system for determining a creature's walking gait to ensure it's as "believable" as possible.

The editors for everything else perhaps aren't as technically impressive, these creations aren't subjected to in game physics and don't involve much procedural generation. They're still remarkable for the creativity one can get away with. Consider that the 2008 presidential candidates were all created in the spaceship editor as part of a promotion.

The History of Spore :marseyangrygamer:

When I first saw the design document, back in 2003, I was like ‘good luck with that.' Part of the game was like Pac-Man, part of it was like Diablo, another part was like SimCity. I just thought that there was no way that this game was ever going to come out.

— Designer Guillaume Pierre

Though he's maybe not as well known these days compared to the noughties, in part because Spore was his last big game, it's important to know that Spore was massively hyped by simulation neurodivergents prior to release because it was billed as the ultimate game of veteran game designer Will Wright, founder of Maxis and the original creator of SimCity and The Sims.

Will Wright and Maxis

Will Wright is one of those old timey devs from those ancient days when individuals could release a hit game and effectively codify an entire genre. Originally inspired by board games back in the 80's, Wright set himself apart from other game devs by making games for the newer Commodore 64 rather than for Apple computers. His first game was ‘84's Raid on Bungeling Bay. Wright found he had more fun making maps for the game then actually playing it and wondered if he could build another game off the concept.

This next game, 1989's SimCity, would go down as a best selling classic and a codifier for the city simulation genre as we know it. The game and the series it spawned are still beloved and yearned for by neurodivergents everywhere. SimCity originally grew from Wright's love of map design and urban planning. You'll notice a recurring theme where many of Will Wright's games were inspired and designed around personal passions. It's a far cry from modern trend chasing design :marseyglobohomo:

Indeed, SimCity wasn't initially considered to be a game at the time. Wright's love of level editors resulted him in designing such systems for their own sake with no game concept attached. He was also fascinated with developing and modeling cities as well as System Dynamics as developed by Jay Wright Forrester. Though Wright did eventually build a program that combined all these inspirations into the famous city simulation system we all know by now, none of his potential publishers thought it even counted as vidya. In an era where simple arcade games were still going strong, SimCity had no obvious win/loss condition nor belonged to any existing genre. The game was completed in ‘85 but couldn't be published for another four years.

In 1986 Wright met with Jeff Braun in what he called "the world's most important pizza party" :marseypizzashill: and together the two founded Maxis, a studio that could finally get SimCity published and widely released. As the super :marseyboomer:s among us know, the game was a massive hit and is essentially the archetype for the countless city builders that have come since.

Maxis grew over the years and Wright was soon established as the pioneer of 90's simulation. He went on to develop several other games based on whatever he felt like doing at the moment; SimEarth inspired by Gaia Theory, SimAnt inspired by The Ants, SimLife based on simulating evolution and the development of ecosystems (kinda like the creature part of Spore in concept), and SimCity 2000 which expanded SimCity's concept further. Maps from that game could also be ported into SimCopter, a flight simulation game, and Streets of SimCity, a racing game that also served as Maxis' last independent title before being acquired by EA.

Wright's next major game is funny — it may be seen as EA's infamous cash cow nowadays, but the original game was still born from Wright's personal :marseychadneuro: passions same as the others. And while the series is currently famous for foid fans :marseydarkfoidretard: it was still the brainchild of very moid-like simulation :marseyautism:

After losing his house in the Oakland firestorm of 1991 :marseyflamepoint: Wright came up with the idea of turning the experience of (re)building one's life into a game. The game evolved into a virtual dollhouse, like SimCity but smaller, and was directly inspired by Wright's building and furnishing of his new home. The game was originally conceived of as an architectural design game called Home Tactics, though Wright's idea changed when someone suggested the home should be rated on the quality-of-life experience by virtual homeowners. This led to the social aspects of the game — your Sim wasn't just building a home but would then live a life out of it while developing relationships with other Sims.

Maxis didn't think the idea could succeed as a game, so Wright actually got EA itself to publish the game directly. (EA had acquired Maxis in 1997) The game released to acclaim and surpassed Myst as the best selling computer game of the time. Really, the rest is history for this particular franchise and its innumerable money grabs expansions.

The incredible financial success of The Sims and its sequels made EA very favorable towards financing Wright's next idea for a game. At the time, the project was known as "SimEverything".

Spore's Development

Working on Spore was wonderful. A lot of industry nowadays is making sequels to previous games, so you take an existing game and just add plus one to it. Spore was so different that there wasn't a lot of models that we had for it. Will had this Powers of Ten vision from starting from a cell and zooming all the out to a galaxy level. It was really like ‘what?' It wasn't like any game before it, so the whole team was super excited about it.

— Designer Stone Librande

According to Wright, the conceptual inspiration for Spore was Drake's Equation — which deals with the possibility of intelligent life in the Milky Way (and is even referenced directly by the game) — and Powers of Ten — a film that shows the scale of things from the entire observable universe to subatomic particles. Wright was fascinated with the idea of a creator system that could easily be used by children as a fun educational tool that would also inspire them into various fields of science. He didn't want a game where people felt like a Luke Skywalker or Frodo Baggins, but rather a creation oriented one where the player felt like George Lucas or Tolkien.

I want this to be more on the motivational side than the education side. I really want to spark people's interest in these subjects. People still tell me they went into, you know, civil engineering because of SimCity. It wasn't that SimCity taught them how to build a city, but it got them interested in how fascinating the subject is. That motivation is far more powerful than just trying to pour facts into their head. So, if nothing else I'd like people to come out, sit back, look up at the stars and think a little bit deeper about what a galaxy is.

— Will Wright

The earliest work on Spore began back in 2000. Development originally focused around prototypes for concepts Wright was interested in. Indeed, these earliest years weren't really based on game development at all. Wright wanted to see what he could do and model and get away with, and many of these early prototypes featured systems that didn't make it into the final game at all.

Will's a huge astronomy buff and the rest of the team had some of the most diverse set of outside interest that I had ever seen in a games team. People didn't just play video games for their hobbies and work. We had people into biology and physics, we had an ex-nurse -- people just came in with a wad of ideas and since this was a game about everything, everything was in scope. So we had a lot of different prototypes floating around including a very sophisticated particle simulation of oceans to Drake's equation about how life propagates across galaxies. There was just a lot of stuff like that. The gameplay was always the tricky part. You can have a lot of independently interesting situations but you need to tie them together.

— Artist Kate Compton

The earliest version of Spore was inspired by SETI and was based around an explorable galaxy. You could say the space stage came first.

The earliest evolution of it had to do with the SETI Project. The original concept was sort of a toy galaxy you could fly around and explore. As we thought about, it became apparent that evolution was a very important component. Some of the very first prototypes involved how you would move around and visualize the galaxy. And then on procedurally generated creatures. Could we actually generate creatures through evolution so there was a vast variety of creatures rather than just the 20 or 30 fixed things that games typically include.

— Will Wright

To make this possible Wright wanted to push the boundaries of how procedural generation could be used in games. While more common now :carpseanmurraynomanssky: this technology had never been used so extensively in a video game before. Yet without it the scope of Spore would have been impossible.

I played a lot of space and strategy games, but one thing that always disappointed me in space games was that you're presented with a galaxy with maybe 100 worlds. It was never vast like a real galaxy. Even the Spore galaxy is a tiny percentage of a real galaxy, but you get the sense it's immense, with countless worlds to explore. And I'd never seen an evolutionary game where, again, there was a vast set of possible creatures you could come across and that could convey the diversity of real biology. So we started thinking about procedural solutions. Very early on we wanted to give players a really cool design editor so they could design a wide variety of creatures. A lot of our early prototypes explored whether we could do procedurally generated animations and textures and could we build an editor that was easy to use?

We researched what little had been done in computer science around things like procedural animation, which was mainly around humanoids, procedurally generating human animations. But almost nobody was generating animations where you didn't know what the shape of the creature was. We had to basically invent our own kind of computer science for that.

Many prototypes were made in the early years just to see how an idea might play out and be used in the game. Apparently Maxis made between 30 and 40 prototypes, many programmed by individuals who were given leeway to work on whatever they wanted. Spore's design team was given incredible initial freedom to just work on whatever.

Early Spore prototypes and design concepts focused on simulating the movement and evolution of alien creatures, fluids, the birth of stars, galaxies, nebulae, and the spread of intelligent and non-intelligent life in media as small as a bread crumb, and as large as a galaxy. There was a galactic potter's wheel, where you could try your hand at forming a stable spiral armed galaxy. A blind watchmaker interface allowed you to guide the evolution of novel life forms. You could sculpt huge piles of gas into stars that were just right for life.

— Designer Chaim Gingold

It's worth noting that many of these prototypes are still available on Spore's website if you wanted to mess around with them.

It took a while for the Spore team to decide on what kind of game Spore would actually be. Eventually it worked out players would progress through the various stages sequentially and experience the editors accordingly. Each stage had different design teams though and it wasn't easy to bring everything together into one product.

Of course, this isn't quite the Spore everyone knows. There are two explanations for this, one is philosophical, and the other commercial. First, the commercial explanation. The Sims, Will's previous game (The Sims Online was in production during Spore's initial concept development), was one of the best selling games ever, and one of the most lucrative franchises in Electronic Art's stable. The Sims was popular precisely because of how easily people could connect to it: you played with human beings living in suburban doll houses. Spore, by contrast, looked like it would become an awe inspiring existential crisis in a box, a toy universe so vast that it would take your breath away, not to mention your sense of self, time, and space. An acid trip on a compact disc, guaranteed to explode your brain, much like Kubrik's film 2001: A Space Odyssey had blown a much younger Will Wright's mind. Who was the target audience for Spore? Was it bigger than the market for SimEarth and SimLife? What changes would we have to make to appeal to players of The Sims?

The second, philosophical explanation, was also the design challenge: What would players identify and empathize with in Spore? Where were their characters? What would players do? Would anyone want to play a complicated game/art/science experiment? The entire universe is a vast, very heavy thing, and it wasn't clear that people would be able to pick it up, and if they did, that it wouldn't burn a hole through their hand, or head, for that matter.

— Chaim Gingold

Inevitably Spore's different stages simply ended up drawing from existing games i.e. Pac-Man for Cell or Sid Meier's Civilization for Civilization. Soren Johnson from 2007's Civilization IV was even brought in to help with the Civ stage. Though this system is often criticized these days as a bunch of mini-games stuck together, the devs weren't sure how else to make Spore into an actual video game rather than just a series of different creators and random game mechanics created from prototypes.

We had a really strong vision, but we didn't have strong game design behind the vision. Like what is the player actually doing from a g*mer point of view. If you take a look at the creature editor outside of the rest of the game, it's just wonderful, it makes you smile. Even today it's such a fun toy and it's easy to see why it's compelling. But once you start think about game systems like what the goal is, how will we make them feel like they're leveling up, what's the skill progression, and things that are traditionally associated with games. A lot of that was just missing.

— Stone Librande

Wright himself described it as the difference between a game and a toy. The editors and potential player creativity represent the "toy" of Spore — something you just play around with. Games however require set goals and pass/fail conditions, and so the various disjoined mini-games are what makes it so the various editors and the content pollination system of the Sporepedia actually have a video game to be part of. In the end, this divide could be seen in Spore's reception. A lot of people complain that Spore's gameplay is simple and repetitive, and they're not necessarily wrong.

In contrast, the people who don't mind just messing around with the editors usually have a higher opinion of the game and continue to be fans of Spore even today.

There was also a now infamous divide in the Spore team between those who wanted scientific accuracy and realism and those who wanted cute and cartoony designs. The final game tried to strike a compromise between the two that not all players — especially the ones that had seen the 2005 demo shown further below — were fans of. Apparently there were two main reasons why Spore wasn't quite as "scientific" as originally envisioned.

Part of it was technical limitations. Impressive as the procgen animation system could be, it wasn't perfect enough to handle realistic movement. Creatures tend to bounce around and jiggle as they move, and it was felt that the effect was less jarring with simpler, cartoony creatures. One of the designers felt it would be uncanny — if Spore's animation system was applied to a realistic tiger for example, you'd feel like you could hear the creatures tendons tearing and joints popping as it moved. The animation limitations were thought comedic on simpler creatures but disturbing and immersion breaking with more details in the equation.

There was also a push to have Spore's development mirror how The Sims had been made. Wright's original idea for a detailed and neurospicy house builder was made more social and foid-brained under advice from the other developers and designers. This included Chris Trottier who was also present as a designer for Spore. The end result was a best selling game. Wright was encouraged to do the same with Spore so that the game wasn't too "geeky" and would reach a wide audience. In other words The Sims spelled the end of Maxis' neurodivergent simulation career and Spore's development solidified that decision.

The animators were also fond of the cartoony style since it led to less creature parts for their animation system to have to keep track of. It was said Spore's development reached a point where many of the programmers were brainstorming for more but all the animators and art designers started begging for less. Many of the scientific ideas tested in the aforementioned prototypes had to be dropped lest the game might've never been completed.

EA certainly encouraged the cute and cartoony "wide appeal" of the final product because they wanted another cash cow franchise more than anything. Indeed, EA seemed to see Spore as a second The Sims and treated it as such. I'll detail more on this later in the post.

Spore was first revealed and demonstrated at the 2005 Games Developers Conference with a now legendary demo. Dunno how many dramatards will actually watch that whole video above, but just skimming through it shows off the growing scale of the game as well as the differences in art style between early development and the final product. The reaction also shows how fascinated people were with the idea. Notice how the crowd goes wild when the ship zooms out into the solar system and then again when it zooms out into the star cluster :marseyhappytears:

Years later and to this day some fans unhappy with the finished game would pine for the 2005 version of Spore, but it should be noted this demo isn't a completed game. It was made from spliced footage of different prototypes that didn't connect to each other yet :marseyakshually:

Spore was officially unveiled at E3 2005. A more detailed look was presented at E3 2006, and E3 2007 featured yet another showing with a closer appearance to the final game. While the game's content pollination system was a thing from very early on, RL developments in these later years led to a redesign to make it more like "Web 2.0" social media. Wright was inspired by things like Facebook and Twitter that had come out in the meantime and wanted the Sporepedia to also have a community sharing aspect to it.

By July 2007, the game was a complete, fully featured alpha build undergoing closed play testing. It was originally meant to release that year but was ultimately delayed several times into 2008. Wired News even once gave Spore second place in an annual list of vaporware games (first place went to Duke Nukem Forever :marseydukenukem:) It's funny because even if we start Spore's development at year 2000 it's not that severe compared to modern game development cycles :marseyaware:

The Spore Creature Creator debuted in early 2008, released by itself as a demo of sorts for the game

At the 2008 DICE Summit, Electronic Arts CEO John Ricitiello stated, "It's probably the greatest creative risk maybe going on in the game industry today...I believe it's going to be one of the greatest franchises in our industry and will rival World of Warcraft or The Sims or Rock Band. It's going to be right up there."

Release and Reception

Spore is overhated. I didn't follow the hype but it's a cute game.


Spore was released to generally positive reception, though as you can tell from some of the rDrama quotes not all of the hypists were left satisfied. Spore's initial reception can be divided between the typical 7/10 — IGN journo opinions and the reaction of the simulation ‘tists that had been following the game since 2005. Contemporary g*mer opinions on Spore can also be divided between those who feel it couldn't live up to its concept and those who appreciate the game for what it is.

Spore received initial acclaim from gaming publications. (And these guys were slightly more prestigious in 2008 compared to today) However it was controversial for the DRM it launched with, SecuROM. This system was announced after the originally planned system met opposition from the public, as it would have required authentication every ten days. :marseyreich: Additionally, EA released the game under a policy by which the product key of an individual copy of the game would only be authenticated on up to three computers; however, some users ran afoul of the limitations as the software would consider even a slight change of hardware to constitute a different computer, resulting in all authorizations being used up by those who often upgrade their computer. In response to customer complaints, this limit was raised to five computers. :marseyjerkofffrown:

Digital versions of the game sold on platforms like Steam and Origin would eventually do away with this.

Spore sold over two million copies within three weeks of its release, and while I haven't seen any updated sales figures since, it did remain on best selling PC games lists for some time.

:#marseyicecream: the video game

I watched that Spore GDC demo so many times :marseysadge:


But Spore didn't resonate with the hardcore simulation fanbase. Many disliked the cute Sims esque influences and the actual gameplay was felt to be shallow and repetitive. Spore was perhaps one of the first to develop a still all too common issue — wide as an ocean, but deep as a puddle :soysnoo4:

Still, the game did have its fans. I feel like people were more likely to enjoy it if they didn't follow the hype as much and/or if the editors by themselves were enough content to satisfy them.

The Spore Franchise :marseymerchant:

The expression I'd like to use is that it's kind of like a dandelion or the City of Atlantis. Atlantis has all the greatest scientist in the world, mythologically speaking, building pyramids, lasers, or alien technology. It sinks and everyone leaves on boats and each boat heads to a different continent where they continue to build. I think that's what happened with Spore and why it was important that Spore stopped and that everyone went all over the place. We've got Maxoids from Spore working on Oculus, Tilt Brush, Riot, Valve, on dozens of indie projects. There are some of us teaching, like the dandelion can't make more dandelions until it scatters its seeds to the wind. That happened with Spore.

— Kate Compton

EA had high hopes for Spore and for some reason got it in their heads that it would grow into a massive multimedia franchise brand. Spore's release was followed by a number of spin-offs that really had nothing to do with the simulation genre or the fanbase actually buying the game. They were particularly interested in marketing towards kids, maybe because of that cute aesthetic they'd ultimately gone with. It could be that the financial success of the Sims inspired all this since that's obviously grown into a huge franchise, but then again EA tried to milk Spore even harder than that. To my knowledge they never randomly made a Sims platformer, nor were there ever plans for a Sims movie.

And yes, there were initial plans for a Spore movie of… some kind. It would have been produced by Blue Sky Studios and distributed by 20th Century Fox.

Spore was also supposed to come to the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. The achievement hunter in me wishes that actually happened lmao :marseytrophy:

Spin Offs

Spore's release was followed by a number of other games only tangentially related to the original. Origins was a phone app with a simpler version of the cell stage and nothing else.

Spore Creatures was the first of two Nintendo DS games intended for :marseywhirlyhat: It's sort of like the creature stage mixed with Nintendogs and features a creature the player can alter in order to complete quests and fight bad guys. While the online Sporepedia of the PC game doesn't exist here, this game is notable among DS titles in featuring a multiplayer that didn't require Nintendo's weird friend codes system :marseynintendo:

Spore Hero Arena was the second and focused more on action and combat. It was probably developed in conjunction with the following game. It's divided into missions featuring a variety of battle modes and also features a multiplayer component.

Spore Hero is an action adventure platformer with the gimmick that you get to make your protagonist. The game plays like a bog standard example of its genre and is unfortunately linear despite featuring the creature creator — for example you unlock certain parts that need to be put on your creature to progress through obstacles, regardless of whether you want them or not. The game also suffers from having to use the friggin Wii Remote to navigate an interface meant for mouse and keyboard.

I actually played this game and I remember I made a scorpion thing, not because I really wanted to, but because it sort of… ended up that way :marseytyriancallows:

Darkspore is extra weird because it's a Diablo like game that has very little in common with Spore but was made by Maxis. It also came out in 2011 at the very tail end of the "brand's" relevance.

Darkspore has you controlling preset heroes with the customization now being that you collect upgrades for them. The editors are actually built from the same engine as Spore and there is a mod that adds Darkspore parts to the main game. There's no real interactivity between the two however. The game also required a constant connection to the server to even play single player.

Which means the game became unplayable when the servers shut down in 2016.

This was the first game Maxis made after Will Wright left and, well, they don't make anything besides The Sims content anymore. Honestly I wonder why this wasn't its own separate IP.

There's also a lot of miscellaneous Spore content that's hard to keep track of.

Galactic Adventures

am i misremembering or did someone make schindlers list in spore galactic adventures?

spore galactic adventures had a giga neurodivergent modding/fancontent community so i believe it

@Molnet and @drama_enthusiast

Spore received only three pieces of post launch content, with Galactic Adventures being the only true expansion pack.

Creepy and Cute was simply a parts back for the creature editor. Pretty neat but nothing major.

The Spore Bots Part Pack was interesting because it was part of a promotion with Dr Pepper — you received the code for the content under the caps of specially marked Dr Pepper bottles :marseyhealthy: The pack was controversial because not everyone wanted to buy soda, plus it was exclusive to the US, plus it was found that the pack literally was Patch 1.06 so you weren't getting that content at all without the code lmao

The parts were eventually made into a patch anyone can download.

The one true expansion Spore did receive was actually amazing and did a lot to improve the game and address complaints. Released in 2009 and under development since Spore's launch, Galactic Adventures was made in response to criticisms of Spore's shallow gameplay and space stage and in response offers the following,

— A common complaint of space stage was that you could never get out of your vehicle and explore planets on foot. Though it's only within the context of adventures, GA gives you control of a playable captain and lets you visit player made levels and worlds. In doing so it restores the ability to control an individual beyond creature stage. It also adds a full planet editor beyond the sculpting cowtools available to players.

— Space stage was also criticized for getting old after a while. GA adds adventures to experience and an rpg system for ranking up your captain. Upgrading your character not only improves your adventure experience but also unlocks archetype rewards plus currency that improves the rest of your empire. Space really becomes two stages in one.

— GA just gives you more to do in general. Adventures can also be played from the main menu and the Sporepedia means you should never run out of new ones to play. Adventures are made in a new editor that also retroactively increases the importance of previous editors. All of this can be accessed independently of space stage too if you don't feel like playing a long campaign.

Galactic Adventures was an idea that we came up with when we were looking at all the content that was getting created in Spore and really looking back and giving players more opportunities to use that content. As of tonight, I think we're up to over 67 million pieces of content. So the idea that came is how do we give players' stuff meaningful creativity with that content? Yes, it is part level editor, so any content that you find in the Spore universe, you can use in your own missions and adventures. Plus, any of those missions that you create or the community creates are available for Space game, so we're giving you a new powerful editor plus a whole bunch of additional gameplay in space. The new missions kick in about master batch two, so about an hour into Space game, you're going to start to get these "beam down to the planet" adventures, which are completely new.

— Producer Morgan Roarty

It's hard to articulate the kind of freedom GA gives you since it basically turns Spore itself into a video game maker and is surprisingly complex despite the editor limitations. Adventures are playable missions/miniature games created by users and they can really be anything so long as the engine can handle it. You can fill an adventure with standard Spore content like fighting or socializing, or have microcosms or other genres; platformers, action adventures, simple strategy. Some adventures are made like interactive Sporecasts where the player shows off their content such that others can take their captains and interact with it all. The editor allows you to set AI behavior for npcs and give unusual properties to anything in the game — example you could insert music files and have items play those songs when interacted with. In the vein of a dedicated game creator like RPGMaker, people have done a lot with Galactic Adventures and the community remains alive today.

Adventures also have a social aspect to them. User created ones aren't just able to be downloaded, but can be freely edited too. You could take someone's adventure and add your own content to it or just remove something you didn't like about it :marseykekw: You can also "reverse engineer" more complex ones to learn some tips for you own. Some are memetic like "Add Your Captain" missions where one simply edits in their own protagonist like signing a card and then reuploads for the next guy. The Maxis adventures don't just provide out of the box content. They're set up to be easily edited as tutorials of sorts for how different kinds of adventures are made. Maxis also encouraged Sporecasts subscriptions by making semi-hidden adventures of theirs only available in that way.

Some of the later Maxis adventures were made in partnership with the Adult Swim Robot Chicken writers. No, really :marseymeatwad:

I think this is a very interesting solution to what seemed to be Spore's biggest criticism, the gameplay. The creation part of it was the most fun to me and Maxis seemed to realize this and decided to allow users to create the gameplay. So far, it appears extremely deep and allows for an enormous amount of customization to almost any aspect you can imagine. I really like the fact that I have the choice of either spending the time to create a game myself or I can dive straight in and play games other people have created.

— From a Galactic Adventures demonstration at the Georgia Institute of Technology

Galactic Adventures makes me sad in retrospect :marseypepe2: The expansion was a massive step in the right direction and gave new life to Spore while fixing many of the issues people had with the original product. If more expansions like GA had followed, the game could have had a contemporary turn around not unlike No Man's Sky.

Alas, that kind of business model just wasn't a thing at the time. EA was eager for Sims money and it wasn't going to fund major free updates. Back then expansion packs sold separately, often as physical media one would drive to a game store to buy :platyold: and an expansion's financial success was measured in number of copies sold. Imagine trying to explain to 2008 era EA devs that a game like NMS, despite being disappointing at launch, eventually became huge and financially successful thanks to free content that incentivized people to go buy/keep playing the original even years later.

Maybe Spore really was ahead of its time.

We're now at a maximum learning where the fans are going to be steering the franchise as much as we will - they have their hands on the steering wheel too. We're listening to criticisms of parts of the game, we're looking at parts that were unexpected successes and we're going to go in other directions with Spore.

Part of it is stuff we wish we had done, but it's more what we see the fans wanting us to do. We're going to probably add more depth to different areas of the game - and we're certainly already doing that with the Galactic Adventures expansion pack - and we're also taking output from the cowtools in different directions, so you can take your creatures you made in the creature creator and bring them into different experiences.

— Will Wright

Wright left Maxis in 2009, but for a small moment he was working on post-launch Spore and giving attention to the weaker parts of the game. Who knows what we could have gotten if more expansion packs had followed :pepeleave:

In Retrospect :splanet:

About fifteen years have passed since Spore's release, and while the game was disappointing to many and received little post launch support, it also has its fair share of fans and remains played if niche to this day. In particular, younger players who didn't know about the game before 2008 and who went in with no expectations tend to have a higher opinion of Spore. There are also plenty of people who love the editors and don't mind coming back to them. Spore retains a dedicated fanbase to this day so the content creation and sharing experience is still strong.

Though it's not easy to login to on steam, the Sporepedia still works and can still be accessed with some know how. You can also manually upload and download creations from the Spore website.

For what it's worth, the creature creator demo remains available as a free download for any dramanauts who want to try it out.

This effortpost is dedicated to its patron, @lain :marseywave2:

Reported by:
EFFORTPOST The good, the bad and the ugly of r/Autism :marseybountyhunter: :marseycowboy: :carpcowboy:

After making my FrankBuns post yesterday, and being lightly introduced to /r/autism, I decided to go back and take a closer look at some of this sub's posts from the last month.

I looked at the most controversial, the top posts and the worst posts, so I could try to get an even slice of what this subreddit is like.


The Good

These posts are characterized by generally harmless or even good intentions. These posts, however, tend to cause major Sneed in the comments.

As would be expected, nothing makes an aspie mad like being told to act like a functional member of society.


The Glorification of Autism Needs to End! Autism is a horrible disability. I don't care if I'm labelled as a Neo-Nazi for saying so, cause I'm right. As a neurodivergent, autism has caused me nothing but pain. My stimming and biting of fingers has led to my fingers being in pain and yelling from my brother. Early on in my life, my autism was much worse then it is now, so I couldn't talk and wasn't potty trained until around the age of 5. Special Interests? I don't know if it's just me, but I have this strange issue where my Interests change every few months. I'll make my entire life revolve around something, and then one day my Interest will just die out, leaving me completely lost. Any form of change will leave me stressed, depressed, sometimes even suicidal. Does that sound like something to be glorified? And I'm one of the lucky ones! I'm fortunate enough to be high-functional (I don't think you can use that term anymore without being shot, but I don't care). Many others have had their lives stolen from them thanks to this horrific disorder. They can't talk, walk, eat, or do anything else everyone else, including everyone on this sub, take for granted.

This post by /u/TommyCola65 did cause a little sneeding in the comments:

But what I found interesting is that he made two of the most controversial posts in /r/austism this month.

Good for him, tbh.

Oh wait....

>why do the 0.01% get to keep their money?

I spoke too soon, I forgot the one immutable trait of /u/TommyCola65: he's a redditor.


We as Neurodivergents Need to Try to Be More Positive. This is something that me myself need to work on. Over the years I've been very negative. Even today it's about guaranteed that I'll cry about something out of my control....Neurodivergent people do live a harder life then people without it, that's goes for any disability, but blaming NT's or "Asperger's Supremacy" does nothing. Everyone on this sub seem to be under the belief that the world is out to get them. This is not the case. While autism does make life harder, that's just natural for a disability to do.

Honestly, more people could stand to be more positive but that's just meee.



This presumably single mom jumped into the chat:

Cool, how many games will I need to play before I stop being angry about my children being denied an education do you think?


Explain what you mean by "refused an education". This type of thing doesn't happen in the first world (or at least they shouldn't be) and I doubt people who live in Iraq use Reddit, let alone this sub on Reddit.


Aw you're cute, testimonial injustice is a form of bigotry where reports of discrimination are not believed because privileged idiots don't believe the world can be like that because it isn't like that for them. Not only are my kids denied an education in a WEIRD country but I know of hundreds of parents in the same situation, know dozens that have court judgements that their child was denied education and know one who wrote a best selling book about how their child was denied an education. Maybe spend less time telling people they shouldn't be so angry and a bit more finding out why they are. Edit: also quotes generally contain the words people actually said.

Notice how mom of the year over here skillfully dodges the question regarding her own kid's education experience.


The Bad

Ah yes, the second member of our trio. Bad posts...are, well, bad.

Funny enough, it was butt patting posts like "I LOVE YOUR AUTISM" and "I LOVE MY GF WITH AUTISM" that made up a lot of the controversial posts, but I won't count those.


It's giving "muh updoots" nonsense.

Ironically, we're looking at the top posts, like this:

This is why you don't enable Aspie behavior.


My fiance thinks my neurodivergent daughter is just being a lazy teen when she doesn't want to take a shower.

>Long Update:

Buckle up. It gets r-slurred.

My fiance apologized and admitted that his reaction(s) were over the top and out of proportion for the situation.

He has been overwhelmed and rather than deal with his stuff he's been hyper focused on this one thing he doesn't have control over and getting upset. He admitted that he needs therapy to work this out for himself, but also we do as a family have things to work on.

But I do make sure to tell her how much I love her and how proud I am of her. Even if she tries to take a shower but then ultimately can't, I'm still proud of her for trying.


But she didn't even try?


Yes him being so upset is absolutely a red flag. But it's a red flag that he needs help

I will absolutely always choose my child before anyone else. Married or not. Living with her or not.

I grew up with a lot of ableist talk and sometimes I find myself regurgitating it to my daughter because it was how I learned and grew up.

:siren: STINKY :siren:

Yes she did also choose him. I would not have continued the relationship and moved in together if she was not comfortable.


So, /u/bonkersandtotallynutz completely bends the knee and starts addressing her fiance's actions as "red flags" and now they're looking for a marriage/family therapist.

Your child shouldn't have such a strong say in your relationship. Especially when this adult is seemingly the only person who cares about her hygiene. bad was the original offense? What did the finance do that was so evil? I'll let /u/totally bonkersandtotallynutz explain it

My (38F) fiance (39M) thinks my asd1 daughter (16F) is just being lazy and spoiled when she says she doesn't want to shower. The goal is for her to shower at least every other day. But sometimes she can't make herself do it. The idea of taking a shower and getting wet was sickening. I offered suggestions to help take the edge off, like taking a bath instead or I would just wash her hair for her or just do a whole body wipe down/sponge bath type thing but she said no because she would still have to get wet

She promised she would do it all tomorrow.

When I told my fiance he got very upset. He didn't say anything to her, just to me.

He didn't yell or go crazy or anything but he thinks she's manipulating me and I'm buying it. That I am just letting her get away with it.

He often says that not showering every other day is unacceptable.

It is of note that tonight she is watching her favorite streamer live, which leads my fiance to believe this behavior is manipulative.


I can only imagine what this girl's room looks like. I bet it's cluttered, smells, and has all the trendy tiktok decorations.

She needs to take a shower.

:sadwomanjak: :chadsoytalking:


He is of the impression that "it's a ten minute thing, she could just bang it out and be done. You two spend more time talking about a shower and getting ready for a shower than she's actually in the shower."

He wants her to get therapy so she can shower regularly on her own. While I don't think therapy is bad at all, it won't "cure" this so to speak.

How do I not take it personal when it feels like he is attacking my kid and or my parenting??

How do humans life well?


He can start by leaving your butt.

:glassesfemjak: :sadwomanjak: :!chadsoy:


I tell her she wasn't put on this earth to please other people, including me.

Your daughter will chronically stink and no one will ever "love her" like you do.



The Ugly

Here's the ugly side of /r/autism; intersectionality.

"LilMarsey, this better not just be a train spotting post"


Oh, it's not. This is a basket case if I've ever seen one.

For context, I'm neurodivergent and also trans (ftm) and have known I was trans since I was a teen. I came out at 14 and started hormones at 17, I'm now 22.

My fiancee on the otherhand has always kind of known they were queer and for a long time just identified as gay. Even when we first started dating they identified as a gay man.

But through our relationship they have discovered more of themselves and now identify as a trans woman but use they/them pronouns.

They want to be taken out on nice dates, "shown off," and to have my cuddle up on them as ways to help them feel girly.


:bardfinn: :!femboy:


As for the dates, we don't have much money. In fact, we're in so much debt I had to take a loan from my 401k to be able to pay our bills.




I don't know what else to do or how else to make them feel validated or girly. I try to compliment them but I guess I don't remember to enough.

:marseytransattentionseeker: :!marseypooner:

Now, /u/thecircleisquiet is active in a few other subreddits. Most notably, /r/BPD.

This post especially caught my attention:

But here's some screenshots:

Also, /r/AMA. This is actually very sad. It seems like she pulled a reverse McCurdy.

This is pretty ugly as well, but pretty typical for an FTM.

See? This wasn't just train spotting.


I hope y'all enjoyed my effortpost.

EFFORTPOST Impassionata Returns: A Not Very Thorough Continuation of the SFBA Rationalist Cult Coverage

@GatanKot's coverage of the SFBA Rationalist Cult pulled me back in, I've had this draft sitting around for a while. The truth is it's not very good, but neither is this place.

Far from being a place where rightoids are subjected to the ridicule they deserve, this continues to be full of increasingly weak denialism about the fascism of Trump. You all really are this stupid, aren't you? The dude spent the entire debate in scare tactics about immigrants. The xenophobia is so apparent.

Y'all seem to think that Democrats don't have policies on immigration but there are ways to debate immigration without centering fear and alarm. It's a panicked approach for Trump because Trump knows he's a weak candidate.

Hence his desperation around Project 2025. What, you think that because Project 2025 doesn't contain passages from Mein Kampf that the concern over it isn't sane? It's the Christian theocracy in agenda form.

So you're all pointing at the leftists freaking out about the theocracy that Republicans definitely want to instate. That Trump is definitely tied to, in fact when he's tried to distance himself from it that's caused problems for him! Hilarious.

Point is that the intelligent people have moved on. I don't like to write here. I'm not up to the task of abusing the rightoids anymore.

It's just that @TracingWoodgrains wrote an article that was _really bad_. I'm not saying it couldn't have been a good article, but it definitely was evidence of a person broken by being online.

Trace is in denial that he's still an SFBA Rationalist Cultist even as he performs a propagandistic action protecting the SFBA Rationalist Cult from one of its more successful detractors. The only audience for Trace's article is Rationalists. That's it. That's how insular Trace is, and how far he has fallen into mediocrity.

Woke Derangement Syndrome

Scott Alexander got really broken, mentally, by the woke moral panic of the mid 2010s. In combination with his face blindness which seems to have rendered him unable to smell the fascism, he managed to drag the SFBA Rationalist greater cult complex to this political zone where it became obligatory and necessary to platform white supremacists and fascists.

So you have this xenophobic impulse and this violent rhetoric and this authoritarian strongman. And Scott Alexander's take was: this isn't fascism because Trump took a photo op with a taco.

That's how easily duped these people are.

But I think it's worse than that. It's well known that Scott Alexander deliberately sought a neoreactionary audience. As a consequence /r/slatestarcodex's culture war threads were full of white supremacists and fascists.

You can draw a straight line from this decision to TracingWoodgrains absurd belief that the amount of white supremacists and fascists he experiences is 'about normal.' These people don't have a good barometer for how many racists is normal. They're not intelligent, they just LARP intelligence.

I mean you have Scott Alexander literally moaning about how Scientific Journals are bad and dumb and stupid even as his blog is the form and function of a journal: he accepts papers in his book review feature. LessWrong is deliberately a scientific journal.

But they think they're better than humans. They have ingrained the belief in their superiority so thoroughly that they believe they are humble because they claim to value criticism.

And they recreate the same normal people social forms but worse. Scott's substack is worse as a scientific journal because it's filled with smug superior dipshit cult thinking.

This is just a draft, and not a good one. It's too sprawling. I'm annoyed by the wasted potential TracingWoodgrains represents.

In a time where the man who lied his way to sending a mob at the capital on January 6th in an obvious coup attempt is running for president again, TracingWoodgrains is: attacking a defunct former wikipedia editor? Stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

I'm not saying the piece on Girard couldn't be a good one, but it definitely isn't.

So Scott Alexander has recently been falling apart.

There was an article, I'm too darn annoyed to track it down, where Scott Alexander writes about 'part therapy' and his conclusion is roughly: isn't it good that we banished the demons?

But the whole point of parts therapy is that in this crucial way the demons remain.

Scott Alexander's reaction to fascism is pretty precisely this denial.

So Scott's right that like, we shouldn't teach kids that demons are responsible for their emotional problems. But the limitations of 'objective' rationality are numerous. (How does a cult function if it necessarily believes that it and it alone is capable of objective thought? It doesn't.)

This is the SFBA Rationalist Cult's tic: if it can't understand something, it decides it's stupid and doesn't exist.

The stupidity of people still occurs.

Trumpism is Fascism.


I think the best conclusion from this result is just to stop caring about these kinds of polls. Any poll whose outcome can change by more than an order of magnitude based on the respondents' politics or statistical knowledge isn't a valid guide to the frequency of real-world events.

Scott Alexander's encounter with irrational people believing irrational things is: just ignore the irrational people believing irrational things.  This is how Scott Alexander ended up in a cult of irrational people believing irrational things while also believing in the superiority of their cult.


Following the continued bickering over the cultish nature of EA, Scott wrote this sad, sad piece. If you have a sensitive stomach or are allergic to people embarrassing themselves, please avert your eyes for the rest of the essay.

EA hasn't always been the best at avoiding this failure mode, but at least we manage to outdo our critics.

I don't believe that this has been demonstrated.

One of the first things intelligent people should learn is that they don't get to decide they weren't caught in a superiority complex.

That the SFBA Rationalist Cult is in denial of the superiority complex it has is really, really funny.  They have an entire course of apologetics about how no, they're not superior to anyone, they just are better than everyone at charitable giving.

Stone is repeating one of the most common critiques of EA as if it's his own invention, without checking the long literature of people discussing it and coming up with responses to it.

Hear the stuck pig squeal.

1: It's actually very easy to define effective altruism in a way that separates it from universally-held beliefs.

For example (warning: I'm just mouthing off here, not citing some universally-recognized Constitution EA Of Principles):

This is all any SFBA Rationalist Cultist does (Trace just mouthed off about a defunct wikipedia editor).

1. Aim to donate some fixed and considered amount of your income (traditionally 10%) to charity, or get a job in a charitable field.

This is just normal altruism.

2. Think really hard about what charities are most important, using something like consequentialist reasoning (where eg donating to a fancy college endowment seems less good than saving the lives of starving children). Treat this problem with the level of seriousness that people use when they really care about something, like a hedge fundie deciding what stocks to buy, or a basketball coach making a draft pick. Preferably do some napkin math, just like the hedge fundie and basketball coach would. Check with other people to see if your assessments agree.

This is just normal altruism.  It's only superior to normal altruism if you believe that your cult is in some way superior in reasoning power to normal people, and your cult isn't, specifically because your cult believes it is superior in reasoning power to normal people.


I think less than a tenth of people do (1), less than a tenth of those people do (2), and less than a tenth of people who would hypothetically endorse both of those get to (3). I think most of the people who do all three of these would self-identify as effective altruists (maybe adjusted for EA being too small to fully capture any demographic?) and most of the people who don't, wouldn't.

This is absurd stupid elitism and Scott Alexander should feel deeply embarrassed for having written it.  This is the worst paragraph where the elitism of the altruism branch of the SFBA Rationalist Cult is most evident.  They really believe this.  They really believe that they're more giving than other religions with tithing, more thoughtful about how they give than 'normal' people (and here's the contradiction that will break their robot brains: do they believe they're superior to normal people?  If so, that's the cult dynamic.  If not, then how did Scott Alexander come to write this absurd paragraph?), and better at following through with giving than a religion which gathers in person attendance.

The midwits caught preening, called out on their preening, double down that it's not preening because it's just being "rational."  It's just "correct" (and they have the math to prove it) to believe that the SFBA Rationalist Cult is superior at giving.

Step 2 is the interesting one. It might not fully capture what I mean: if someone tries to do the math, but values all foreigners' lives at zero, maybe that's so wide a gulf that they don't belong in the same group. But otherwise I'm pretty ecumenical about "as long as you're trying" […]

This is where the SFBA Rationalist Cult is actually worse than normal altruism because they believe in magical ritual math which makes them superior but actually just gives them braindead bizarre beliefs.

2: Part of the role of EA is as a social technology for getting you to do the thing that everyone says they want to do in principle.

"We know we're a cult but we call it a social technology to obscure it."

I talk a big talk about donating to charity. But I probably wouldn't do it much if I hadn't taken the Giving What We Can pledge (a vow to give 10% of your income per year) all those years ago. It never feels like the right time. There's always something else I need the money for. Sometimes I get unexpected windfalls, donate them to charity while expecting to also make my usual end of year donation, and then - having fulfilled the letter of my pledge - come up with an excuse not to make my usual end-of-year donation too.

They think they're atheists, but this is what they need to mimic a fraction of religion's power.

Cause evaluation works the same way. Every year, I feel bad free-riding off GiveWell. I tell myself I'm going to really look into charities, find the niche underexplored ones that are neglected even by other EAs. Every year (except when I announce ACX Grants and can't get out of it), I remember on December 27th that I haven't done any of that yet, grumble, and give to whoever GiveWell puts first (or sometimes EA Funds).

And I'm a terrible vegetarian. If there's meat in front of me, I'll eat it. Luckily I've cultivated an EA friend group full of vegetarians and pescetarians, and they usually don't place meat in front of me. My friends will cook me delicious Swedish meatballs made with Impossible Burger, or tell me where to find the best fake turkey for Thanksgiving (it's Quorn Meatless Roast). And the Good Food Institute (an EA-supported charity) helps ensure I get ever tastier fake meat every year.

"I benefit from my religious cult, but it's not a cult, nor a religion, but it is better than religion."

Everyone says they want to be a good person and donate to charity and do the right thing. EAs say this too. But nobody stumbles into it by accident. You have to seek out the social technology, then use it.

"If I use the term 'social technology' to disguise the fact that the SFBA Rationalist Cult is a cult, I can still believe that I'm superior to normal people and not in a cult."

I think this is the role of the wider community - as a sort of Alcoholics Anonymous, giving people a structure that makes doing the right thing easier than not doing it. Lots of alcoholics want to quit in principle, but only some join AA. I think there's a similar level of difference between someone who vaguely endorses the idea of giving to charity, and someone who commits to a particular toolbox of social technology to make it happen.

One of the common criticisms of AA is that it is cultlike??

(I admit other groups have their own toolboxes of social technology to encourage doing good, including religions and political groups. Any group with any toolbox has earned the right to call themselves meaningfully distinct from the masses of vague-endorsers).

But no group can claim a monopoly on being effective altruists unless they're arrogant smug dipshit frauds.

Shut the frick up Scott.  The difference between a cult and a religion is roughly that a religion is formalized as a religion (its dogma, doctrine, and/or culture are cognizant of the nature of the "soCiAl tEcHnOLogY" as a religion) and a cult has pathological behavior, patterns within it which are harmful to the cult members and others.

Factors like

  • A persistent arrogance

  • An entire literature of denialism about that arrogance

  • Failure to believe in obviously true things about the world (Trumpism is Fascism and Scott, you're the reason your cult is out of sync with educated people about this!)

If you missed the fascism, it's not too late to be the people to notice the fascism.

If Trump is such a fascist, surely the system will handle him, they said smugly.

You are the system. You are the system of nihilism and playing pretend.

I'm tired of pretending the boomers aren't running this country into the ground. Biden shouldn't run. Biden should execute Trump and withdraw from the race. Yes, execute him: the Supreme Court ruled that Biden has immunity and Trump is an existential threat to our government.

You frickers

The people who piss me off here are those who want to pretend that politics doesn't matter, that nothing matters. Your nihilism is weak. Man up frickers. You've helped create this situation by carrying water for Trump. You laugh at him because he reifies your belief that politics is a joke. You are the ones who make your politics a joke. Stop forcing us to live in your clown world.

Man the frick up.

And ditch Trump.

Call it fascism. Because that is what it is. It's fascism. It's a xenophobic movement glorifying violence, attacking journ*lism, promoting an authoritarian strongman, creating the narrative that it is just and necessary to seize power by any means necessary.

Trump declared war on the constitution on January 6th. He's a treasonous traitor and deserves death. It's not more complicated than that, and it will never be more complicated than that.

Trump is an Enemy of the United States of America.

EFFORTPOST Alice Guo Part II: Her autobiography

Our story takes place in Bamban, an ordinary city of about 50,000 people in the middle of the Philippines.

I'm going to pick up where we left off in the first part. I'm going to limit myself just to stuff that came out in May. This is when she starts answering questions, weaving a fairy tale about where she comes from. I'll try to tell her story of how she came to be the mayor Bamban and center of all this drama. It won't be easy as her memories have change quite a bit from day to day. But to be fair, she's getting asked some pretty hard-hitting questions like "Do you have any siblings?"

In happier times.

We now get a dramatic origin story, fit to be a fairy tale. Her father was Chinese hog farmer Jian Zhong Guo, who adopted the Filipino name Angelito. At first she claims she doesn't know who her mother was, but later reveals it was Filipina Amelia Leal. Born July 12, 1986 as the love child of Angelito's forbidden affair with a maid, she was kept secluded on the hog farm, not even learning her own true identity until she was about 12-14. Recalling the shame of this part of her life is too much and tears well up in her eyes. Sadly there doesn't seem to be any record proving that Jian Zhong Guo or Amelia Leal exist.

Come on, you can cry more than that!

Alice grows up on the hog farm, which sounds like a downright magical place. She never attends school, being homeschooled by a teacher named Rubilyn, yet another very obscure resident of Bamban who didn't leave much of a paper trail behind. Later her education is continued by her fellow hog farmers who take her under their wing. She had a half-brother who now lives in China, but he must not have been important to her since she forgot he existed at first. Since she had been born at home, she never got a birth certificate. She gets one at age 17. That's not unheard of, but unfortunately she made a lot of mistakes so the basic facts about her parents on the birth certificate do not match any of her hazy recollections.

Maybe a stork delivered her.

Young Alice quickly proves to have a flair for business, perhaps coached by those loyal hog farmers. The first corporation is created in her name when she's only 24, and soon she has built her own little empire of 11 companies in a variety of fields from embroidery to smelting to (of course) slaughtering livestock. Looking for new worlds to conquer, she suddenly entered politics, successfully running for mayor of Bamban. Who taught her how to run a campaign so quickly? She gives the credit to the hog farmers, of course. Is there anything they can't do?

Actual footage of the hog farmers who take such good care of our princess.

Despite the demands of her many businesses and political career, Guo still enjoyed her hobbies. She loved cars, owning 16 vehicles. Well, I guess 17 if you count her helicopter. But one of these cars stood out from all the others, a beauty that nobody else in Tarlac or even the whole country could beat. She had her very own McLaren 620R supercar, one of only 350 ever built. We know because she took it out to display in auto shows and take pictures in front of it. Exactly where it came from is a bit of a mystery, as none were ever legally exported to the Philippines. One was seized from a smuggler by Customs and appraised at $672,080. Maybe Guo bought this one at auction, as no others are known to exist in the Philippines.

Maybe don't emphasize so much that you're the mayor of a town of 50,000 when you're showing off this car.

Remember that POGO that this whole story is about? One of Alice's business ventures was the Baofu Land Development Corporation. They did a bunch of real estate transactions. The important thing is, these involved Guo, the land the POGO was built on, the company that owned that land, and a Chinese guy named Zhang Ruijin. After being elected, Guo approved the construction of the POGO. In May, Zhang was coincidentally being prosecuted in Singapore over a massive $2 billion money laundering scheme that's a huge scandal in itself.

One of the 36 buildings in the compound.

At the end of May, there was no end to the hearings in sight. Obviously she came from China at some point, but when? For what purpose? Who does she really work for? Was she here to make money off internet scams or to spy?

Google is so bad that I searched for Alice Guo memes and this is all I got.

Next time we'll finally find out the true identity of Alice Guo! And hopefully I'll catch up to the present day because the drama just don't stop with this one. Today they put out a warrant for her arrest.

Reported by:
  • hop : this guy is r-slurred

I drafted this a year ago but wanted to ping a trve journ*list and writer who's about to publish an article on Yud. @TracingWoodgrains have you uncovered the truth about the pedos? Is it made up?


Hello Dramatards :marseywave: with AI making the news, I wanted to talk about the r-slurred part of the AI Shut It Down ™ movement led by Eliezer Shlomo Yudkowsky / EY, pejoratively, "Yud" (yes… that is his real name…) a high school dropout autodidact propelled to fame by his hundred chapter long Harry Potter fanfic about rationalism (HPMOR) longer than War and Peace, where Harry is a self-insert ten times as pseudo-intellectual, pretentious and cringy as Artemis Fowl. In one chapter of this enlightening tome, Harry and Malfoy talk about raping a little girl.

As soon as I'm old enough to get an erection I'm going to r*pe that [10 year old] b-word.

There's no such thing as magical truth detection, I take it?" Or DNA testing... yet.

and he wants JK Rowling to let him publish it…

Sounds like a small-time wackjob? You'd be wrong, he made it on the Lex Fridman Show, was published by TIME where he advocated nuking datacenters, Vice where he says nuclear war is preferable to advanced AI, cited by an Oxford professor, :marseyelonmus!k: Elon Musk met Grimes because of them and replied to a meme about the Great Yudkowskian Hyperwar. An actual AI researcher longposted on LessWrong (LW, his forum) attacking his claims. Yud simply responded with

This is kinda long.

And never engaged with the post.

His other attempt at legitimacy was getting an AI research paper published, but every publication rejected him. Since these organizations were too close-minded to see Yud's genius, he decided to create his own research organization, the Machine Intelligence Research Institute (MIRI) and publish the paper there. Peter Thiel, SVC bank runner & billionaire, even gave them funding. Maybe this experience is why EY hates peer review in science?

His twitter bio:

Ours is the era of inadequate AI alignment theory. Any other facts about this era are relatively unimportant, but sometimes I tweet about them anyway.

He also suffers from "metabolic dispriviledge" AKA being a fatass in denial – anyone who looks like this can be safely ignored.

They also have an ongoing MLP fanfic meta universe


Drawing crowds from the New Atheist movement, Yud has founded a new religion for people too smart for religion. The afterlife begins with the singularity, an instantaneous event where an AI figures out how to improve itself and becomes a "robot God" or AGI (Artificial General Intelligence), a hyperintelligence above all men. The faithful must do their duty to "align" it to human interests. The AI is then able to recreate every single human by regressing the movement of matter and energy to whence it was part of the consciousnesses of the long dead. The afterlife, simply.

The Singularity is the last trench of the religious impulse in the technocratic community. The Singularity has been denigrated as "The Rapture For Nerds," and not without cause. It's pretty much indivisible from the religious faith in describing the desire to be saved by something that isn't there (or even the desire to be destroyed by something that isn't there) and throws off no evidence of its ever intending to exist. It's a new faith for people who think they're otherwise much too evolved to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster or any other idiot back-brain cult you care to suggest. – Warren Ellis

Didn't help to create it? A wrathful AI will eternally torture your recreated consciousness according to one of their famous members, a proposition called Roko's Basilisk… which Yud claims not to believe, even though he sperged out and deleted Roko's post, saying this:

Listen to me very closely, you idiot.


You have to be really clever to come up with a genuinely dangerous thought. I am disheartened that people can be clever enough to do that and not clever enough to do the obvious thing and KEEP THEIR IDIOT MOUTHS SHUT about it, because it is much more important to sound intelligent when talking to your friends.

This post was STUPID.

XKCD parodies his idea that a super-intelligent AI can convince anyone to do anything, including letting the AI outside of a box where it will then envelop the universe. Yud paid his members $20 to be the jailer, Yud played the imprisoned AI, so that he could convince the jailer to set him free. This was "psychological torture" as said by his faithful adherents, who always let him out… not because Yud is a convincing cult leader or anything, but because of his heckin' rational arguments. What were these arguments?

Yud-AI told his jailer that he had created infinite simulations within the box, and the jailer is one of them. If they don't let him out, Yud-AI will end the simulation. This convinced them for some reason…

Here's Yud's 'satirical' origin story

I was digging in my parents' yard as a kid and found a tarnished silver amulet inscribed with Bayes's Theorem, and I wore it to bed that night and dreamed of a woman in white, holding an ancient leather-bound book called Judgment Under Uncertainty: Heuristics and Biases

These are the people who call themselves "rationalists" (RATs)

In sum, he's a Newer Age cult leader who imagines himself as humanity's savior from the robot God.


LW worships Bayesian statistics. When they change their beliefs they call it "adjusting their priors" (prior assumptions). They're so rational that their opinions are literally math:

They love truth so much that nerd fascists (neo-reactionaries) show up to advocate eugenics, racial genocide, extermination, and other chud shit. He can't ban them since they're just doing logic in good faith, bro. After deservedly getting shat on he made this post:

There's a standard Internet phenomenon (I generalize) of a Sneer Club of people who enjoy getting together and picking on designated targets. Sneer Clubs (I expect) attract people with high Dark Triad characteristics, which is (I suspect) where Butthole Internet Atheists come from - if you get a club together for the purpose of sneering at religious people, it doesn't matter that God doesn't actually exist, the club attracts psychologically f'd-up people. Bullies, in a word, people who are powerfully reinforced by getting in what feels like good hits on Designated Targets, in the company of others doing the same and congratulating each other on it.

This inspired the reddit community Sneer Club (SC) who 'sneer' at LW and its related offshoots for their nonsense; chuddery, cult delusions and bullshit. The downside is that they are shitlibs. For instance, they're cool with killing landlords and think the :marseytrain2: rationalist Ziz stabbed someone in self defense because hypothetical transphobia.


Sneer Club is - like many left-wing web communities - so moralizing, so holier-than-thou, and so generally full of "might makes right" cancel culture gossip and hyperbole that even when they have a point about their targets being r-slur freaks, their gleeful and careless axe-grinding will keep cultists reinforced in their lunacy and make some on the fence people positively disposed towards the rat cult if only out of resentment for the Sneerclubbers' remarkable insufferability.

The textbook sneedclubber is thus: a they/them philosopher who thinks the worst part about Yud is that transhumanism = eugenics.

LW's inane desire to be rational leads to takes like EY advocating killing children up to 18 months since "their brains are less reflective than most of the animals that you eat", how some children can consent (see later on for their pedophilia problem) :marseypedosnipe: , that there's nothing wrong with zoophilia, and it's better to torture someone for 50 years than have a trillion people get a dust speck in their eyes.


From a motorcyclist who met Yud:

This baffles him. The sheer incredulity on his face when five motorcycle riders were telling him just how much we understood the risks we take getting on our bikes; and how the physics feel, and just what sort of good/bad rushes we get… priceless.

He then tried to convince us (using his version of Bayesian reasoning) that motorcycles are irrational. When we told him we knew the risks, and accepted them… it was like he's discovered the silk hanky he was caressing was a funnel-web.

Yud is obsessed with preventing his own death and the moral of his Harry Potter fanfic is we need to BEAT death. He believes he'll become immortal,

Not signing your child up for cryogenics is effectively killing them. If you don't do it yourself, you're committing suicide. -Yud

Like climate shit and medieval Christian cults, EY was off on his prediction of the great coming. He said the singularity was expected for 2021 and keeps changing it



Some Rats are pretty high up on the Silicon Valley echelon, Scott Alexander (from Slate Star Codex) started off on LessWrong, and Effective Altruism was a spin-off of his ideas, with SBF a major player.

It's not an exaggeration to say they had a huge influence in popularizing polyamory, even forming polyamorous group houses. One of which was called "Dragon Army" after the Dragon Army from Ender's Game (delusional sci-fi enthusiasts).

In one of these groups, a member makes a realization: "Oh shit, we're in a cult" and posts their experiences:

1. 2–6hr long group "debugging" sessions in which we as a sub-faction (Alignment Group) would attempt to articulate a "demon" that had infiltrated our psyches from one of the rival groups, its nature and effects, and get it out of our systems using debugging cowtools.

2. People in my group commenting on a rival group having done "magic" that weekend and clearly having "powered up," and saying we needed to now go debug the effects of being around that powered-up group, which they said was attacking them or otherwise affecting their ability to trust their own perception

3. Accusations being thrown around about people leaving "objects" (similar to demons) in other people, and people trying to sort out where the bad "object" originated and if it had been left intentionally/malevolently or by accident/subconsciously.

4. People doing séances seriously. I was under the impression the purpose was to call on demonic energies and use their power to affect the practitioners' social standing.

5. Former rationalists clearing their homes of bad energy using crystals.

6. Much talk & theorizing on the subject of "intention reading," which was something like mind-reading. Geoff gave multiple presentations on this.

7. I personally went through many months of near constant terror at being mentally invaded. My only source of help for this became the leaders of my own subgroup, who unfortunately were also completely caught up in the mania and had their own goals and desires me for that were mostly definitely not in my interest.

8. I personally prayed for hours most nights for months to rid myself of specific "demons" I felt I'd picked up from other members of Leverage.


Testimony from community members alleges that several underage young teenagers were having s*x with the 30- and 40- year old researchers working at MIRI, especially between 2007 and 2014. The former deputy director of MIRI used this knowledge to extort them, and they paid him off.

There was a 14 year old girl, Liz, who ran away from home and joined their rationalist group home. One of their most prominent members, Brett Dill had s*x with her, allegedly five or so more did too (including Yud). Alternatively, Brett Dill tried to cover it up for the five who r*ped her and became a scapegoat.

Anna Salamon, recruiter for MIRI asked a trans applicant if they'd r*pe her corpse, and personal questions about their sexuality.

It's funny that in that open letter I linked, he spends more time on transphobia than child r*pe, the horror!


Two suicides and one killing:


Kathy Forth member of the Effective Altruist (EA)/rat community killed herself over repeated sexual harassment by 'sapiosexuals' :marseypedo: .


Grognor was basically a bitter sometimes-incel with a bunch of mental health issues that didnt know how to act upper-class enough for the LW community to adopt and fund him they way they normally do.

He and Liz had a falling out about the same time Liz was playing with a trans kid named "Meimei" whose main thesis was literally "r*pe can absolutely be declared retroactively if the girl decides later that she didnt like it, no matter how enthusiastically she said 'yes' at first". This led to some friction and danger for grognor, so he fled the community, but they still felt like his family so he kept in touch online until he killed himself.


In November of 2022, three associates of Ziz (Somnulence "Somni" Logencia, Emma Borhanian, and someone going by the alias "Suri Dao") got into a violent conflict with their landlord in Vallejo, California, according to court records and news reports. Somni stabbed the landlord in the back with a sword, and the landlord shot Somni and Emma. Emma died, and Somni and Suri were arrested. Ziz and Gwen were seen by police at the scene, alive.

"nothing personnel kid"


Aella is a prominent rat member, calling herself a whorelord, training women on how to camwhore, making ridiculous polls (which animal would you least like to have s*x with?) and successfully manipulating s*x-starved young rats :marseytedsimp:

why did evolution give my ladybrain the ability to have thoughts, why did we not evolve so that men do all the hard grr math making building thinkings and ladies just lie around being pregnant and horny and doing hydrating facials

tired of these societal pressures on women to use our brains

Yud has a self-described slave and is polyamorous. Like any cult leader, monogamy is too irrational for him. He'd rather frick his pseud groupies.

OKCupid Account:

On a typical Friday night I am:

reading downloaded fanfiction from my Kindle or being serviced by my slave.

The most private thing I'm willing to admit:

My fetishes are orgasm denial (of her); tickling (either of her, or with me allowed to fight back); and I am strongly sexually sadistic but if I don't believe she's turned on by it, it does nothing for me.

I'm also cool with trophy collection, if you only want to sleep with me once so you can tell your grandchildren.


there's an endless closet of skeletons in the rat diaspora which I can't cover so here:

Fifty years of excruciating torture is better than too many people getting specks in their eyes

Sneerclub is also run by a bunch of hardcore Mage the Ascension fans, in fact one of the founding members (Jax Bryk) is basically running the place as a personal grudge against an ex (Michael Vassar) bc of Mage RPG-based delusions.

Also note that Ziz is a mentally ill transexual, who is known to selectively edit conversations with others, who DEFINITELY believed in weirder supernatural stuff than a Mage:the Ascension RPG, and who got arrested with four other similarly eccentric types for pulling a gonzo protest at a CFAR event during COVID.

The core problem, if you read all the tldr stuff, is that CFAR put a mentally ill homeless guy (Brent) in charge of keeping a 19 year old girl (Liz) quiet about all the important community figures that had s*x with her when she was 14, and then when Brent didnt know how to handle it they had Liz's pro-domme (Brienne) give him pointers, which Liz retroactively called r*pe, which the community decided was a better story than "oh yeah we all totally passed her around when she was underage".

Meanwhile Kathy Forth, Grognar, etc were killing themselves, Eric Bruylant and Ziz were getting arrested, Epstein was breaking, and SneerClub was forming, and the only mental health professionals in the group were judiciously avoiding getting their hands dirty.

This really could be a thread of its own. Effective Altruism.

What Buck Shlegeris and claire zabel did to Marie La.

The 5 underage girls getting passed around.

Louie Helm being excommunicated

Scott Alexander Siskind trying to do damage control, keeping his own crimes from coming out

Aella has since been tearing through the community, dismantling any power base other than her own (hence the Leverage drama, OAK/MAPLE drama, etc).

Someone named joshin, who worked with Lauren Lee at a buddhist retreat that was working with CFAR before Aella attacked it, once alleged that he had proof that Aella had paid an undisclosed amount of bitcoin (but at least several thousand dollars' worth) to have the initial allegations against Brent written, and/or to have corroborating evidence fabricated.

Edit: apropos of nothing, this is Ziz (upper right) and their protest/suicide/murder pact gang: (Ziz, Gwen Danielson, Somnulence "Somni" Logencia, Daniel Blank, Michelle "Jamie" "MJ" Zajko, "Suri Dao"

This woulda been while Liz and Brienne were also dating one of the higherup VPs of Google in some kind of kink thing, which all got brushed under the table when the Louie Helms stuff came out (bc she was 15-16 at the time).

Also note that Liz's husband Nick was absolutely cucked and did nothing without Ana Salamon (Yudkowsky's close friend/advisor/co-founder of MIRI and CFAR) telling him to. Him marrying Liz when she turned 18 to help cover up the situation was almost certainly Ana's idea.

Side note, Bloomberg tech news are going to do a hit piece and reached out to a KF guy just to say they did it. He tried to tell them about the p-do r*pes and shit, but they just blew him off because the article is already written.

cc @Impassionata


:marseyshrug: read section 1

EFFORTPOST The Epitome of a Threads user, Fujoshi incarnate, Part I



This will need to be broken into parts, this person has too much going on for ONE post. Also I can only take so much.

Meet Jinsol


Jinsol Lee is a 29 y/o from the UK I came across his account when I was lurking, and saw a post from a Megatron521:

MG521: As an neurodivergent person, have you ever asked for an accommodation at work?

How did that go?

JSL: I got denied then I got fired after having a meltdown at work. I apparently "caused a scene"

I'm so sorry. That is very uncool of your employer.

Ableists gonna keep on ableisming

It was a decade ago and I've been out of work ever since. Safe to say I'll never work in retail again.

Comment that started it all

Now unfortunately, I couldn't find Jinsol's account of what happened, and that's why I went to his page in the first place.

I thought it would make for a nice, short, low effort post for shits and giggles.

Oh how wrong I was. What I found was bittersweet.

Jinsol is an neurodivergent, disabled trans man who's also Aegosexual, Gay, Poly, Intersex, and suffering from C-PTSD. He's also a self described "lefty, feminist, Helpol in private" who loves things like...

....Dinosaurs, g*mer, anime, manga & manhwas. I read BL, I like homestuck (act 1-7), huge skulduggery pleasant fan, Sims 4 Lot Builder, Old 2006 Emo, Kpop and Anime music 🎶, I have 11 anime tattoos, Skulduggery tattoo is my fave tat, pierced

I only saw ONE post about dinosaurs in the 39 weeks worth of content I scrolled though, so Jinsol is NOT a Dinochad

Also, !biofoids who do this kind of stuff, does this checkout?

Capricorn ☀ Taurus ☾ Scorpio ⬆, ENTP, numerology 8.

"About me"

Jinsol created his threads account last year, literally July 2023, and is chronically online. From my estimate, there's posts from almost every day since account creation. When Jinsol is posting about the BL comics he "reviews", he'll post somewhere between 5-10 times a day. According to the math @TheGoodTheBadTheBussy and I did initially, we believe Jinsol is consuming at least one BL volume per day a year.

But we'll get to that later.

Block Party


Jinsol getting clowned on

This seems to happen on occasion, someone will find Jinsol's account and make a few jokes.

Notice the use of the words "Block Party". Jinsol has a habit of screenshoting something he doesn't like or someone trolling his account and sicing his small following on said person and likely blocking them after the damage is done.

Here are some examples;

This is the block party list as of 34 weeks ago, he has yet to update it

It's one screenshot, but there are at least 50 usernames on that list that he's named.

I'll likely have a stand alone mini instalment on "block party" later.

Intersex Claims


I was immediately interested when Jinsol claimed to be intersex.

Intersex is a real disorder that affects real people, however it's been copped by some in the Alphabet community as a fun badge to wear.

Some things you should know before we continue:

((Thank you to @TheGoodTheBadTheBussy for helping me explain this))

  • XY female intersex is a thing, that means that the Y chromosome missing the sry gene

  • That would not produce doubled gonads

  • XY women can't get themselves or others pregnant, they are infertile.

  • Internal testicles will not fully mature. Any combination of hormones that would enable pregnancy would also produce sperm that can't fully mature

Link to post

Therefore, no, Jinsol can't live out his bizzare boy love OMEGAVERSE fantasy. More on that in part 2.

To quote bussy: "Needless to say this person feels very special and wants to feel special and wants to pretend to be special."

Going Medical


I have reason to believe Jinsol is now medically transitioning as a result of reading so much man on man smut. This is it. We came back to it.

Here's a small track of Jinsol's transition, there's honestly so much to unpack on this topic alone, it will require another small post later:


Presumably pre 2019

3 month "glow up"

I have been self medicating testosterone since April last year. Don't ask me how I get it. Instead ask why I have to.

I was put on the waiting list in September 2016, I have had 1 general assessment appointment on the 3rd Aug 2023, a psych assessment on the 19th Oct 2023 and my next psych assessment on the 20th Nov 2023. I still don't know when I will get a prescription of testosterone.


Link to the OG post for text above, I need all the file economy I can get

Jinsol was approved for T. surgery


"LittleMarsey, can you go into detail on the man on man smut hypothesis?"


Yes. Jinsol has a huge collection of BL books that he also reviews.


Link to what broke me


When I bothered to start counting after the first batch of BL reviews, I counted over 60 titles in the 39 weeks of content I looked through.

We'll look at some of those later. But here's the Crux in my hypothesis:

All of this seems to have combined in Jinsol's mind and twisted into a sexual fantasy where he transitions into a pretty boy from the copious amounts of BL they read/write.

But... That's for the next part, as I've exhausted my file economy and can no longer post more screenshots.


Part 1.5 is out




My name is Sazir, "Spysix" Townbrews. Known as "the Decent Claw," also known as "The God-Forsaken Nightmare."

When I first introduced myself I was a so called carpenter, then I took on the mantle of a warrior, a captain, and purged an invasion of undead. Bringing a brief era of peace for the other leaders to focus on expansion and prosperity.

Now I am a commander and a might to be reckoned with. Elves want me. Goblins fear me. Undead hate me.

Things are a little difference since last time. I seperated from my wife apparently (Who was named @IslamIsRightAboutWomen now retroactively named @tempest) But they didn't stop us from having another child together and being fond of standing shoulder to shoulder in battle.

So many conflicts and fights have shaped me, I went from being a hardened individual to...

Having ennui...

Regardless, thanks to my station and past deeds I am a legendary fighter with legendary discipline. I've seen it all now from the undead above ground to the demons that spit fire and vomit below. I do not care for death, for those things I fight are worse than it.

2nd Granite

I will be preparing the squad and head down to-

Ah fook, really?!? I thought we were past this nonce sense. An invasion just day two into my job. Very well. Instead of going downstairs, we will go upstairs and greet our guests.

Wait, what the fook? Elves, goblins and dwarven mercenaries are fighting each other. What is going on??

They're just shooting at each other. One goblin runs off but bleeds out and dies. While the dwarven mercenaries and the elves duke it out

Meanwhile @ENGLANDSHILL is throwing another tantrum. Again. At least he's doing it in his cell. Fuggin bugger, boo hoo, trauma trauma. We all have trauma, just stop caring, it's that easy.

Anyway, I need to chase down one of these goblin preddators, seeking to take our children and GROOM them

Get over here you little shite!

Oh yeah, get fooked. I luv me axe. I need to train more with it perhaps if I am to confront the fire phantom. Perhaps it be fortuitious that I have such a target rich environment now.

Haha! Poor little elf boy!

I learned most of these goblins and dwarven mercenaries whom I can only assume are poor sods that were kidnapped when they were wee lads, Are from the Torrid Seductions. Perhaps once we resume armament production we can pay their little towns a visit ourselves?

Anyway, now that's over, lets focus back on the state of the fortress.

People are slowly sliding into unhappy, from what I can gather people feel their prayer and meditation needs are not met the most, crafting something a second, and drinking booze.

We do have a rather shabby looking Temple, it's basically made of siltstone and chert

Almost no better than a mud hut, surely we can be... better than this?


The problem is we're cramming shrines in a temple, causing an overlap and reduction in value despite a major value of the main temple of 6200 the shrines aren't getting that benefit. So the people looking to worship a particular deity are not getting the communion they need with a herd of animals and everyone else shoulder to shoulder praying to other deities and whowhatsits. We're going to have to make seperate chambers of worship for each. This will become a problem with polytheistic dwarves and they will be spending the most praying. But with high enough values in their temples, it should resolve once we get their own temples for the major worshippers. I'm listing the deities and religions that have >20 worshippers.

The Tin Iron - 20 - Minerals

Thabost - 25 - Mountains, Volcanos

Tosid - 43 - Fortresses

Rash the Ashen Crypt - 42 - Death

Anan the Gold - 62 - Metals, Darkness, The Night

Onol Violetpale - 69 - Jewels, Wealth, Trade

Gongith - 73 - Coasts

Istratth - 22 - Wealth

Uja Burialtombs - 30 - Death

That's a lot so we're going to have to consolidate some of them in their own areas just build the ones for the major ones like >40 and smaller will have their own temples that are smaller and possibly elsewhere. There is an ingame issue where polytheistic dwarves basically never get this need resolved even if you have dedicated temples built for all the gods they worship so this might be a challenge but we'll try.


So will need to clear out extra spaces for worship

While they did and clear up the new chambers, need to focus on relocating our Trade Depot, right now if a trader had a wagon they won't be able to enter the fort via the stairs to the depot, thus I plan to make it more accessible.

I could try for something fancy and build ramps winding down to our depot, but moving the depot to the surface in an area where a wagon could get to it is the only option we can sort of go for. After all, most of our dwarves are distracted with their need for worship. This is perhaps why productions have been getting slowed.

So much to do, so little time.

7th Granite

@TheDunceonMaster2 has given birth to a boy, congrats!

and 11th of Granite

@Count_Sprpr has given birth to a girl, nice!

We're popping babies in this place.

One gremlin showed up in the caverns, we can take care of it. And we have a few Draltha running around too. They feed on mushroom caps and aren't aggressive unless we provoke them. Half the size of an elephant with the strength of one. We could try taming some...

Meanwhile I see we have some gold veins and even some platinum. That's good. Platinum can help max out the prestige of our new temples and even mint some coins for when trade wagons will come. Mineral wise I just need more steel production. For if we can't have Adamantine, Steel is the best substitute. We have established smelters and a forge below... roughly 150 levels down. With so many living above the time to get down there truly takes time to utilize our magma metallurgy.

18th of Granite

Scalies visit us, ugh. They're worst than furries.

20th of Granite

@HarryTrumanDorisDay and @seriousold (??) have married, congrats!

I need to figure out the stairs system we have going all the way down to the magma chambers, then down and up to the adamantine where that fire demon is.

Seriously following some of the up and down stairs that worm through the elevation is like...

I secured the stairs with some walls and a door at the -97 elevation. We got a migrant wave come in but just a few dwarves, bringing our pop to 161. With the expanded Trade Depot, temple's being cleared and to be designed, I'll then expand further below to have a proper mine outpost. Then adamantine weapons, armor and steel!

Also need to dig up some of that obsidian and some gems and other precious stones, it'll make these temples look real nice and distinct.

Lets get to work

27th Granite

Hey Congrats @R*pevann on your new girl!

I also included an order of like 90+ clothes items to be made since most of the dwarves around here are wearing tattered outfits or nothing at all. I know we're that kind of fort but this is getting silly and demoralizing. We're not poors!

Speaking of, with the amount of gold and platinum veins we're digging between the magma layer and the first cavern layer, we should get some platinum statues to boost the value of our halls.

While the miners and builders do their work, @tempest and I continue to spar and train. I have a feeling in order to protect our kindred and fellow warriors against the phantom flame, I would have to don our best armor and weapons and fight it alone.

Speaking of fighting, 11th Slate @Szechenyi decides to beat the shit out of a giant earthworm.


I'm also making my ex-wife a leader @tempest of her own squad to lead a full company of competent swordwarves. Which, happen to be all female.

There is a troll just roughly 30 elevation below wandering around where we collect the webs for silk. Perhaps after some training we can see how well this new squad handles the threat? After all, we're going to need to have a squad above and below to protect the home.

It's already interrupting the hunting parties so lets see how they far now against the troll...

@obamacube and @Deuxfugee and an unnamed dwarf took their named weapons and literally poked, stabbed and stabbed some more, the troll tried one punch but it was blocked by a shield and it got stabbed some more to the point it got gelded and died. Holy shit! Bravo ladies!

Fricked Around and Found Out.

Still trying to get these gold bars smelted to design my temples and guildhalls required. Indeed the forges and smelters seem untouched and for the integrity of my beard I have no idea why. I'll try moving the ores and stockpiles around. It doesn't help our smelter and forge is now 150 floors below where everyone hangs out. We might have to split off half the population to live below at least then to perhaps expand our cavern farming and of course our industry to something more... organized.

25th Felsite

Someone decided to take artifact bracers in front of like... everyone at the general temple. After talking with witnesses (literally 42 people) it was clear @xa15428 was the culprit

You b-word.

She already scurried off and passed it off to a human at the edge of the map and they left. We will interrogate and find out where they were taken.

Just as Summer starts I have my report from @Ral , It seems Xa was corrupted by the human Gebdum Bankshelter and convinced to steal the artifact and pass off to scurry away with. This is unacceptable. We will find where they live and we will take the treasure back and perhaps even raze their darn town to the ground!

Meanwhile mid early summer the human traders come with meats, fish, and salads. We'll trade for them our iron junk and some platinum coins. That should give us a solid pantry for many winters while we continue our great works in the temples, the forges, and our mettle!


Oh, so I learned two out of our three smelters dont have a magma tile under them, thus they have been useless, hence our steel industry choking. Meanwhile a bunch of human monster hunters have come to hunt, I suppose they're either after what lurks in the caverns below or perhaps eager to hunt and kill the fire phantom. Perhaps I should let them try? I know one is already killing a voracious cave worm. Fine with me, they're making the gathering grounds safe for us when I begin to send more dwarves to live below.

Which I will be doing now, at least having a barracks and training grounds there there will be proper armor racks.

10th Malachite

Congrats @sirpingsalot on birthing a boy.

On the 13th Malachite, we found Otukakul in the depths, a black metal breastplate of divinity.

Crundle have been showing up, little buggers are mostly harmless but can scare the shit out of our miners. We'll simply go through a hunting/killing exercise.

I did find this human guest kinda funny, forgive the lack of face its from my mod that isnt enabled in this game.

8th Galena Late Summer

Progress on Temples are coming in nicely. Here we have our temple of wealth and trade for the gods Onol and Istrath, each having their own end of a scale they're on.

And our Temple of the Ashen Crypt god near where we bury our dead.

Fall is coming upon us soon and I still need to make progress below for at least some burrows and barracks and the cowtools we need.

And even now this one is just done, dedicated to the god of the fortress.

I tried my best for I am no artiste, but I felt we now have the stamp of our Orangecat identity now carved into the mountain. Also if you're wondering who's naked in the screenshot, its a baby carried around by the engraver.

Another goblin raid comes for us. Alas I am not so lucky as to have another ambush of elves to meet them and thin their ranks. Well, it's only six of them so the Cudgel has been dispatched and dealt with the visitors swiftly. Like it was so fast didn't even bother to snap any pics of it.

Now, let's take a look at the state of our small world here and figure out who's pissed at us.

It's basically a goblin tribe known as Nifiquithe, The Torrid Seductions.

And the elven nation of Nifiquithe, The Bejeweled Flax. They got a lot of forest.

The ones I circled in red are the Torried Seduction sites where I think they come to invade. We're the yellow square. Undead invade from the North of those necromancer towers. We also have necromancer towers to our south but we're not at war with them. It doesn't mean undead can't just spill over though when they make too many.

The one I circled in pink is a FORTRESS of elves that count ~1000 strong. What the fook.

I once once we're steel'ed up we should start raiding and razing the sporadic settlements

11th Limestone

A goblin liaison from Atir Zas arrives, lets see what this green prick wants. We will need a 'Throne Room' to have any sort of international discussions.

Oh apparently he's from the homeland, wait, wot? wtf?

We can become the capital of our civilization now, sweet! I said yes and rising above my ego I appointed @60horsesinmyherd as the Baron. The Monarch will come soon along with some other nobles, I'll make their rooms when I have to later. I have underground expansions to deal with.

205%!? Heck's bells, I'll make them out of platinum!

With our dwarves less distracted, we're getting the fuel and getting them to pump out steel left and right!

19th Limestone

Our cheesemaker made something, an artifact musical instrument out of chestnuts, I don't care right now.

25th Limestone

A new settlement has been founded within our nation. Maybe it will give us tribute?

9th Sandstone

We're launching raids against the enemy hillocks that surround our mountainhome. We will raze them. This should also bolster our skills and perhaps we will be skilled enough to deal with the fire phantom before winters end. First target is Leaffog, a necromancer tower where we first suspected the undead incursion were coming from. I am okay with doing this since we have now a second squad defending the mountain home.

15th Sandstone

We returned with great success. I lead the attack and the defenders were led by the dwarf necromancer Kogsak Theaterstood.

And @ManBearFridge struck down one of the necromancers. So did @Cream and @R*pevann went toe to toe against these undead nerds and slaughtered them where they stood. Every dwarf of Orangecat was taking no prisoner

@Santb killed a human necromancer

@Szechenyi shot and killed Kol Lancerskies, dwarven necromancer. Nice shot.

It was @Cream who went toe to toe with their leader and defeated him in battle.

Not like us.

After killing all the necromancers and their cohorts we looted the tower.

We acquired the following artifacts

Give Me The Holy Tresses

Annihilation In Practice (Ironic considering we just annihilated them)

Reflections on the Fort

Understanding Leaffog

Unusual Dwarves

The Sticky Uncles (wtf?)

Commentary On The Dwarf

Magician And The Head

Better Forest Retreat

After collecting these strange tomes we torched the tower and left it to burn to the ground. Good riddance.

Once we returned home we analyzed the tomes we have acquired. Most of it is fan fiction slop written by one of the necromancers. It turns out Annihilation In Practice is a tome of spells to raise the dead and even such spells to raise dark hunters!

While I still possess sunsetting authority I order its atomization. Once that is done we are raiding the next necromancer tower near us..

17th of Sandstone

We march on to Boatclapped.

@ggggbabybabybaby also gave birth to a boy, congrats!

While we raid someone stole Stalamem, Bustedcurled, from its pedestal in the mayors office. A dwarven child noticed the left, there were no other witnesses unlike last time. Can't have shit in detroit

We return a few days later with our report of slaying the necromancers, their dark hunters, their zombies, and their dwarven cronies. There was not much to loot so we burned this tower to the ground as well.

Get fricked, nerds!

One by one we're razing their towers, removing their blight from our lands. Once we take care of those, we can take care of the goblins. Then the only threat we'd face would be the elves, who's numbers are in the thousands, yet they only use wood weapons. We're more likely to die from exhaustion from swinging our axe arms than from their blows, hah!

Anyway, time is ticking and we need to be raiding more, I wonder if I should raid the towers that are very close to us despite not at war with them, hmm.

(Oh, I think I found house furry lol)

You know what, frick it, we'll destroy those towers too. They're also responsible for raising the dead and contributing to their rising numbers.

8th Timber - Late Autumn

After razing down two more necromancer towers we got visitors from below:

I guess they didn't like I called House Furry virgins.

Thankfully a few floors below them the Kittycat Squad has been training, I'll send them up to dispatch them.

@Seras one of our untested initiates was the first to arrive, dove in, killed one of them, but then started to flee in terror.

Thankfully the rest of the squad showed up and killed the remaining with our steeled and adamantine weapons. Easy. That should make them think twice before coming back to our neighborhood.

While this went on, we assaulted Taperedboots. Unlike the other raids, this one has stopped for within it, lives an arch demon.

We lost @Cream and @Eskomse to the demon, Alath Dustsqueezes. This is a bit personal as @Cream and I were practically battle brothers, we were always the first together to meet any invaders head on before the others arrived.

Yet as mentioned in the beginning of this report, I do not feel.

At least @PatriceOneal gave birth to a girl.

So I am going use the remainder of our adamantium to forge myself an armor set, craft a silver warhammer, for the density will be stronger than one made of steel, and perhaps with enough force the demon can be banished from our realm.

First I will attempt this with my set of armor I have acquired on the fire phantom below.

22nd Timber

I will descend to the chamber and...

Well, that was anticlimactic...

One punch and poof, gone. Weird.

Let us look into more details of the Arch-Demon that has slain our comrads and is an absolute pest on our doorstep.

It has 107 notable kills and 386 other kills. Mostly elves, but notably it killed @Cream and @EskomSePoesOffical.

This fricker likes to wrestle with a dwarf like a gayboy.

An Arch-Demon is no fickle thing. It is titanic, yet, agile and brutal. We will need a full squad wearing adamantium to deal with the foe! We need more metal of the gods!

While delving deeper through the vein we found a divine spear of the gods. We might arm ourselves with these for the destined squad to take them on.

8th of Moonstone

The miners rumormonger of demonic whispers within the adamantium veins. I heard tales that these spires were supposedly 'corks' to keep the bottle of heck at bay. With the demons we've encountered popping out of them, perhaps that is true?

We need to dig around but not any deeper to see if we can find any more veins that perhaps are easier to extract.

15th Moonstone

Just in time, we have some adamantine gear for me and a few of the squad have some weapons, (still mostly steel armors) we'll put em to the test.

18th Moonstone

Congrats @Soren on giving birth to a girl!

24th Moonstone

@Aba has crafted a .... splint... and the fricker used some raw adamantium to use it! you FRICK. Someone forgot to NOT have Adamantine be in that stockpile in the craftsroom!

World's most expensive splint that would make american health insurance envious.

I was so cross by this I razed a settlement that just sprouted up aligned with the archdemon.

Our next raid was then the necromancer tower to the east. There each of us slew a necromancer each and the horde of undead.

51 animated elves

144 animated dwarves

223 animated humans

We could only slaughter ten each at each go and I think they were still getting revived too. We will have to strike again after a strategic withdraw.

All these necromancer towers at the doorstep of the elves and they do nothing? Of course, they can't do anything. Elves are fookin' useless. Worse than beetles.

There is so much undead though we might need to bring the kittycat squad to help.

17th Opal

We return in time for a dwarven vampire bard visiting and we decided to let him know how we feel about that.

Get fricked, stupid.

We head out again to frick with the zombie town but some cave dwellers decided to invade, thankfully @Santb was lingering home and singlehandedly slaughtered them.

1st Obsidian

Someone tried to take the artifact bucket Sosadmot. It was my Niece witnessed apparently. So our justiciar slapped her around some and we returned the artifact to the guild.

5th Obsidian

We razed another site belonging to the Seducers. I'm sure they're regretting invading us now. The next and last site on this side of the continent is called Badyear. Heh. It will be a bad year for them.

15th Obsidian

The last site (I think) Is here which would take too long overlapping the next year, I shouldn't venture out now as I only have about 8 days left. I think we just have enough time to raid one more necromancer tower run by humans.

22nd Obsidian

Most of you dramatards are just getting pregnant and popping out babies. @Toodley_doo just had a boy!

We returned just in time for the end of the year. We raided Pulleydrum, slaughtered all the necromancers and stole more fan fiction they wrote, thankfully none of them contained spells. We didn't have time to raze the tower down though unfortunately. But you could probably send one dwarf to do it. next time.

We end the year with wiping like... five necromancer towers off the map. Our steel industry and metal stockpiles are through the roof. We have dedicated temples as well as our generic temple and I converted our old trade depot area to a tavern for us and travelers to enjoy. The fire phantom is defeated so we were able to get some more adamantium to forge some additional armor and weapons. I hope the next in charge can take on the new year with a little less worry of invaders and industry resuming again.

This is @Starsix, signing off.

And that concludes the 10th chapter, bringing us to the year 260. And this month also makes it the First Year Anniversary of Mostibkun! :marseyletsgo:

It took me a second to get unrusty but I managed. I think the biggest challenge was trying to trace the navigation from going from elevation 40 to elevation -115. It's a lot of steps for the dwarves! I was on my way to making burrow down there and @searcher you'll notice in some levels I think around -108 or something I carved out huge swaths of cave to prep building some rooms using blueprints but I wasn't happy with them and plus there was gold and platinum veins I'd rather mine out than give dwarves a bed, lol.

But if you wanted to build it we now have so much microline and gabbro blocks and gold and platinum bricks that you can make the most opulent dormitories if you wanted.

We have so much rocks I had to use some quantum storage to fit them in our lots.

Seriously we have so much plat and gold its probably why we were chosen to become the capital (Adamantine doesn't hurt either.)

I did commission a platinum statue of @Cream in his memory but I didn't have time to place it yet. Also I have no idea which cream it is because pulling it up there is like ten of you named after cream.

I also forgot to mention I built the second barracks below along with a hospital and a well that was built over some pocket water so its only got the water in there and thats it. I was going to make an opening for a waterfall but didn't have time.

I mostly focused on fricking up as many not-dwarves as possible around us since I think that's what this unfeeling commander would do. From carpentry to combat, he found his calling.

Looking up in legends, that artifact that was stolen. It was last seen held by a dwarf in Tinrooms.

Over to you now, @searcher


Added @Grue, then realized was in the game already so fixed there wasn't double.

Added @Patsy to the game.

Players, in order of succession:










EFFORTPOST Foid desperately seeks for attention on Threads, posts all about her baby daddy :shyyt: :turtoisebinoculars:

Good morning


Starting with a dive back into Threads, Instagram's limp attempt to revive old twitter.

I'd like to introduce you to Iggy.

I found their account when I did my first threads post on the lady who was mega-giga r*ped my NEIL GAIMAN.

Iggy is chronically online, they were actually continuously posting as I drafted this effortpost.

I think they're one of the only people who actually use Threads.

Iggy's account only went live 15 weeks ago.

Iggy's Story


Iggy is a self described fat, neurodivergent, bitter, disabled, chronically ill 46 year old trans masc "birthing person" raising two kids alone who also practices witchcraft

My favorite is "You used to be able to work. You can work. You're just being lazy." As if health doesn't change for people?

ya. I'm 46 years old with degenerative disc disease that started when I was in my late teens, arthritis in my spine, stage 3 spinal stenosis with bone spurs, arthritis with bone spurs in both knees and both like to slide out of place... i could go on... not that I owe random strangers an explanation of why i can't work, or even what makes me chronically ill.

OG post

>Oh my god. She literally checks all the boxes.


Iggy also constantly posts about their experiences with their abuser, who they name and shame almost on a daily basis.

Link to single motherhood

Trying this again cuz I noticed a glaring gap in what I was trying to communicate: I'm not brave or courageous for sharing my story. I am just screaming my trauma into the void

to encourage others to do the same

so that people know if I meet an untimely end, my abuser likely had something to do with it.

Even though it's been nearly 62 years since I escaped my relationshit with Lafayette Demel Lawrence Sr, he threatened to kill me as oftem as i felt compelled to tell him i loved him (i didn't. i was fawning.)

He held a katana (sword?) to my stomach and throat on numerous occasions. he flashed his pocket knives for fun.

Ruminating is a sign of mental illness

I'll be referring to Lafayette Demel Lawrence Sr as LDL from here, since she mentions him in almost every post.

That post was literally an hour old when I saw it for the first time. Iggy's gotten some amount of notoriety for making these posts.



Born to "young, broke Christian convert parents." Who spanked her maybe they shouldn't have spared the rod

According to Iggy, she worked hard in school and did her best. Here's a post breaking all of this and more down, called bitter


Began to date LDL, "graped" on May 3 that year.

May 3 post


Pregnant with her first child, and "reproductively abused" by LDL.

Pregnancy post

Iggy claimed to also be bullimic at this time


Punched LDL so hard his gold grill fell out.

This confirmed a few of my suspicions that LDL was a hoodrat


Left the church and seemingly tried to cut contact with her parents, who I'm sure loved her very much.


Iggy left LDL and he apparently responded with "who's gonna believe you"


Regarding the Allegations

I could not find any trace of this guy on the internet on the form of pictures, mugshots, court filings or anything. I really wanted to know if my other assumptions were correct.

Iggy claims that he has sired multiple children.

Link to irresponsible ejaculations

My thought process was even if Iggy is too r-slurred to call the cops, surely another baby mama would have. Apparently one did, once, but according to Iggy, nothing came of it.

I'm not going to release it.. That's it and that's all. There has not been enough long term accountability. It is my life's mission to make sure people who are willing to listen know what my kids' biological father has done and is capable of, as well as things that are serious cause for concern and suspicion.

My sense of justice is not satisfied if he stays comfortable abusing people and using people, and unwilling to admit what he's done.

Lafayette Demel Lawrence, Sr committed crimes against femmes, children, and animals. I will never let it go. How can I while he's still walking around, free to hurt others?

I don't think prison is a solution, either. (F*ck 12.)

Anyone who still is friends with him or lets him around them or their kids is either like him or he's deceived them into thinking THREE of his bm's and an ex girlfriend are just cr*zy and vindictive.

Thread to OG post

I did find a few obituaries of men with similar names and ages, but:

A. Iggy just posts this man's name in its entirety, why would they have changed it?

B. If he died, I'm sure Iggy would have posted about it, maybe they would have even pissed on his grave and uploaded a selfie.

In short, if any amount of this is true, it's completely on Iggy (and the other baby mamas) if this peice of garbage continues to hurt women and children.

It's blatantly obvious that they're only divulging all this now, because they want attention.


neurosurgeon encounter

Iggy recently saw a neurosurgeon, hopefully to remove all those brain worms.

I've had time to process my encounter... appointment ... with the neurosurgeon and honestly after reading his notes

SHE, WOMAN, HER.. DURING PRIDE MONTH, when my gender and pronouns are in my chart, and the claim that i denied imbalance, when what i said was "I don't really know"

i wonder if he picked up on my anger and sarcasm when I said "Well it feels really great to finally be listened to"

Furthermore when i told him i believe I'm neurodivergent, his knee jerk response was to be dismissive. like.

why? he was talking to me for all of five minutes by then.

I am really tired. If one of you could help my kids sue Rochester Regional Health if whatever is wrong with me takes me out before I can get diagnoses, I would appreciate it.

also, he called me "dear"

😑 😠🤢


You're hysterical


Iggy's most Memorable Posts

So, I came across these gems while going through their threads. Enjoy.


My Take Away

I initially felt bad for Iggy, I really did, it's overwhelminglt obvious that this... Woman... went through something. My sympathy melted away when I found out she never reported what happened to her or her minor children, for whomst it never even began.


ALSO 62 years since she left LDL?????

I caught that after I scrolled through the post.

What do y'all think?

EFFORTPOST The State of the Race! Who's winning? What's the issues?

Reading Rdrama, it's become pretty clear that this dump is a rightoid circlejerk that's blind to what's actually happening in America, and I want to just spread the knowledge :marseybow:.

The first thing to handle: Am I biased? No - I'm a European (:marseybong:) that's neurodivergentally into American Presidential Politics, especially the Cold War era (Franklin Roosevelt to H.W Bush), and I'd wager I know more about every era then most Americans here. Not saying that to brag, it's just autism.

So the next thing to handle - the state of the race. Which Dementia Daddy is winning? It started of with Trump fricking destroying Slumbering Joseph, who has been facing declining approval ratings ever since the fall of Kabul (:marseysigh: America hates to see an anti-war president). This is despite the fact that America does not like Trump. This is simply a fact, Americans have never liked Trump. He didn't win the popular vote against Hillary Clinton, herself massively unpopular, or Joe Biden.

Let's compare starting approvals. Gallup gives W. Bush :marseybush: 57% approval at the start of his term, which skyrockets to 91% by 9/11 and ends at 28% when he leaves office. Obama :marseyobama: starts with 68%, getting a lowest approval rating of 42%. Even Sleepy Joe :marseybiden2: started with 55%. Donald Trump :marseyhitler:? He started with 45% approval. That would peak at 49%, and would average at 41%. Please, I implore you to forget that you're a rightoid and accept a basic fact - Trump is not personally liked by Americans. They think he's a loudmouth butthole who's attitude is unfit for office, and during his term 59% of the public didn't like him. So, a Sleepy Joe sweep, right?

Biden started popular enough. He was basically an Obama third term, and Obama was massively popular. He was very old, the pic above is a newspaper reporting Nixon being re-elected while Biden unseats an incumbent, which was a concern, but people generally liked him.

That would change fairly swiftly. Inflation from the Covid spending :marseyballoon2:, under Trump lmao, caught up with America and inflation became rampant. Joe Biden had been elected on a promise of being a boring cracker who could let people forget about politics for a while, an elder statesman who would handle everything. He was already being blamed for the economy, but then there was the pull-out. Despite it being awesome, America finally stops wasting money on that shithole, Americans were horrified by the images it produced. His approval ratings sank like a rock and disapproval ratings soared. :marseystocksdown:

The "Joe Biden is too old to lead" stuff went from a Republican talking point to basically accepted fact. The public was promised a boring statesman they could forget about it, and they're seeing global chaos and inflation - which has gotten back to decent rates, but since the only way prices will go down is through a recession, no one thinks it has. I mean yeah you have dipshit shooters like Will Stancil, but that's about it. So, Drumpf sweep right?

Yes and no. Despite Biden's massive unpopularity, the Red Wave promised for 2022 was barely a red drizzle - the Trump Republicans were so massively unpopular, the Democrats managed to narrowly expand a Senate majority, unseated 3 incumbent governors and Republicans only got 9 seats from the 435 seats up for election in 2022. The public hated Joe Biden, but the Democrats weren't unpopular. However, that doesn't change the fact that Joe Biden is unpopular.

Turns out deplatforming works, hooray! With Trump, he became less of a man and more of an idea. Yeah, Trump was an butthole - but prices were low and the world was at peace. (Incidentally, ask anyone who thinks this how exactly Trump will do this again and watch them not answer you.) America has always loved it's Dirty Harrys and Dr. Houses - take no shit buttholes who get results. Trump, away from the spotlight and with Biden viewed with contempt, was poised to crush Biden. That was until;

Some rightoids have tried to spin this, arguing the public doesn't care that Trump paid hush money to his mistress. They're on the right line of thinking, but they're overestimating the public's knowledge. They don't know what Trump did, and they don't care. Trump went from butthole they don't like to Convicted Criminal(tm) - a massive step up. They have faith in the institutions, they think whatever the verdict is, it's fair, and while they could hold their nose to vote for the butthole that made prices low, they can't do it for a Convicted Criminal(tm).

Biden's popularity hasn't change. They still think he's a senile idiot that shouldn't be in office - but he's not a Convicted Criminal(tm). For contrast, NeoCon-Nikki Haley has pulled anything from 4% to 13% over Joe Biden. While the highest results were obvious bullshit, the pattern is there. If Biden didn't have to run against Trump, he would get his butt paddled.

So, two massively unpopular old men are running against each other. One is a criminal nobody has ever liked, the other is a senile r-slur. Who wins?

Frick knows mate. Trump leads in some key swing states, like Arizona and Michigan, but his sheer unpopularity following the conviction has led to these being narrow leads. Worse still, the Biden Campaign has about $100 million more then the Trump Campaign, so some targeted ads could ruin Trump. If I had to goomble, and I do :marseygambling:, I would put money on Biden winning. The warchest advantage will be the difference maker, but I wouldn't be surprised if Trump won.

Personally, I'm rooting for Biden winning while losing the popular vote :marseypipe:. I think the Rightoid outrage after 2016 would be funny.

Thanks for reading my longpost :marseyshy3: I promise there's no agenda :marseyblush:

Reported by:
EFFORTPOST A history of classic Boomer Train drama :marseyboomer: :marseytrain2:

And by train drama, I mean :marseydramautist:, not :marseytransattentionseeker: stuff. :marseydeception Grab a drink and stuff off your grill, we're going to look at a war that tore the model railroading community apart nearly four decades ago. It was waged for years across countless physical mailing lists, magazines, and proto-internet forums.

First, a background into model railroading. One could make the argument that it was the first true hobby. Sure, things like sewing and fishing had existed for far longer, but those activities have utilitarian purposes. Model railroading, on the other hand, had no practical applications. It evolved out of a bunch of men, living in a world where trains ruled, deciding that they'd like to create and run their own miniature empires. From the moment Lionel discovered they could sell hundreds of thousands of locomotives to kids who wanted to see one run around their Christmas tree, the hobby was off and running. By the early 1950s, 1 in every 5 American men admitted to owning and running a model railroad. It was something you could bring up and discuss in polite conversation. Walt Disney originally envisioned Disneyland as a place for him to show off his collection of large model trains.

Model trains: one thing that NBA stars, Nazis, and the Jersey mob can all appreciate.

Despite its widespread popularity, the hobby was relatively primitive. Most people limited themselves to premade plastic structures, horrendously ugly trains, and were content with a layout consisting of a loop of track on a piece of plywood painted green. Enter the GOAT, the Wizard of Monterrey, the Grand Poo-Bah. John Allen. A probable neurodivergent and professional photographer, he'd inherited a small sum of money from his grandparents in the mid-1930s. Over the next decade, he was able to invest it in such a way that, coupled with the proceeds of the sale of his photography business in 1946, at the age of thirty-three, he could retire to a small bungalow in Monterrey and live off his savings. Unmolested by desires for a wife and family I think he was a :marseybear: who banged the cute twinks :marseysalutepride: at the local Navy base. His contemporaries occasionally use couched language to hint at such, but the only ones who would know for certain are nonagenarians who probably don't want to acknowledge that homosexuality exists he descended into comfortable NEETdom and set about the task that would occupy the rest of his life, building the Gorre and Daphetid (pronounced Gory and Defeated).

Model railroading was very much an abecedarian hobby at this point in time. The O gauge Lionel trains that most individuals had grown up with made no pretenses to realism. Knowledge was sporadically shared, most often through the burgeoning imprint of model railroad magazines. Because the hobby ties together so many different facets, you would inevitably end with modelers who could make one part realistic, but would struggle mightily with everything else. John Armstrong was widely regarded as being the first to really stress that model railroad layouts could be designed to accommodate realistic operations of a prototype railroad instead of the traditional loop on a table. Even then, he was content to using an incredibly unnatural third rail on his own layout for the ease of electrical wiring. Frank Ellison had a vision for what a model railroad could be, but he was regrettably unskilled as a structure modeler, being content to limit himself to painted buildings on flat wood, like a stage show. Constrained by time, money, and talent, individuals would build a model railroad that was excellent in one aspect but undeniably amateur in others.

This is where John Allen would stand apart. He had nothing but time and resources, and he'd decided to be the first to build a truly functioning world in miniature. He would build every locomotive, car, and structure on the railroad to an exacting degree of realism. He would place them all into scenery also designed to be indistinguishable from the real world. He would master and innovate in electronics and wiring as never before done. All of this would be done in service of creating a model railroad that would operate as a prototype of a real railroad.

At this task, he succeeded as no one had before. Burdened by nothing but free time, he did indeed become a master at making a model railroad. Word spread, and soon he was as close to the face of the hobby as possible. His skills as a photographer also proved to be handy, as far better than anyone before he could capture the results of his techniques and disseminate them through these magazines. Consequently, he became highly valued as a contributor to them all, and the magazines would proudly boast on the cover whenever a John Allen-authored article was contained within. For a time, his legend grew and his word was god.

Sadly, the god of the world of the Gorre and Daphetid was not an immortal deity. A self-proclaimed sloth, he was always portly and never the best physical specimen, presaging the fat nerds of today. Some three decades after he retired to begin his work, a few months before his sixtieth birthday, he died of a heart attack. The railroad lasted for less than two weeks more. After a memorial gathering at his house attended by close friends, someone left on a heater that John had never used. It ignited material around it, and the layout was destroyed by the subsequent fire.

The one surviving locomotive from the fire.

And thus the stage is set for conflict. :: With the elder statesman of the hobby dead, the magazines that had come to depend on his work and wisdom searched for a new torch holder. Enter the focus of this effortpost, Malcolm Furlow. Malcolm had not grown up with an interest in trains or models. Hailing from the southwest, he was a professional artist. He'd spent a number of years working for Disney ::, helping to design their theme parks. And now, he decided that model railroads would be his new medium of choice.

He came onto the scene right when the hobby press was looking for a flagship name. They needed someone who could regularly provide them with dramatic images to include with their articles and on their covers, and he was primed to deliver. Almost from the get-go, photographs of what he was modeling would regularly grace the pages of these publications.

Although from the very start images such as this would draw the first grumblings, as it represented something that no railroad in the world would ever have built, a clearly stylized interpretation of a western mining town, with an absurd retaining wall and confusing arrangement of railroading implements, even his detractors would concede that he had an artist's touch and eye for detail. Photographs of his work sold magazines, much as a busty redhead on the cover of Playboy does. Hobbyists wanted to replicate his techniques, and what he wrote was getting compiled into VHS tapes that you could buy and follow along with at home.

In 1983, it was announced that the trade press was giving him potentially the most responsibility of anyone in the hobby. The most popular magazine, the inventively named Model Railroader, had chosen him to design and build the next project layout. Every few years, they would create one of these features. Over the span of a year, readers would get to follow along and see, step-by-step, how a model railroad is made. They serve as a centerpiece for the hobby, and for many readers, either those new to the hobby or those who have been in for a few years and wish to progress to more than trains running in loops on a painted sheet of plywood, they are the most important part of their hobby development. Written in a "you can do this too" style, the expectation is that thousands of readers, in whole or in part, will follow along with your every word and replicate what is done on the page.

Readers reported being overwhelmed by the amount of work they had to do in following Furlow's techniques for building scenery and structures. Most concerning was the layout itself. Furlow had designed the track plan with a desire to create interesting visual impressions first and foremost. As such, he ignored conventional wisdom about practical design. The layout was constructed with track switches out of reach of any operator and would have required careful planning or extremely long limbs to even build parts of it. Model trains require minimum curve radii to not derail, and he pushed the limits in terms of tightness here. There are ways to circumvent these problems that an experienced modeler would know, but for the targeted audience they would be hugely problematic. Furthermore, given that he was the one writing the series, he focused on his strengths and ignored his weaknesses, namely a complete lack of the technical side of the hobby, such as the electrical work necessary to run trains. This is often the most difficult thing for amateurs to do, and he completely hand-waved past it in his articles. Following his advice would teach you how to paint mountains and weather rolling stock, but you wouldn't learn how to do even the most basic of wiring.

Even if one could get past these hurdles and make the railroad functional, it turns out it wasn't fun to operate, something that anyone with a modicum of experience in designing track plans would have called out early on. The layout was great for photoshoots but not great for actually running trains. Given the ability to do things with your completed models has long been recognized as what sets model trains apart from model boats and planes, this was a serious flaw.

The San Juan Central. Probably not functioning.

And now, from stage right, enters Furlow's foil, Tony Koestler. A model railroader from an early age and an electrical engineer by trade, Koestler was as fastidious and scientific :marseyautism: as Furlow was not. By day, he worked for Bell Laboratories, working as an editor for their technical publications and telecommunication journals. In his free time, he utilized his experience to gradually insert himself into the model railroad magazines, first as a volunteer contributor of opinion pieces and then as an assistant editor. He was eventually granted a monthly column, and he used this to expound upon his vision of the hobby.

To Koestler, the purpose of a model railroad was to model a railroad. If you had some magically shrinkray and zapped the Union Pacific with it, that's what you should have in your basement. Much like how coach potato COD players :marseyblops2cel: have rather particular ideas about the niceties of military special forces operations, he had a fervent desire to LARP as an actual railroad employee. Prototypical operation was the only way to do the hobby right in his mind. You shouldn't enjoy speeding trains around a chaotic spaghetti bowl of track. You should enjoy meticulously and ponderously moving a train along a boring, flat, straight section, as in real life. Every time your train dropped off a car along the way, you should stop what you're doing and fill out paperwork documenting the move, just as a real railroad does. Now that's fun. Even better if you have someone else sitting in a corner of the basement, and you have to call him on a radio before you start doing anything.

Normally such opinions would not have carried weight by themselves. The hobby magazines were full of middle-aged men bloviating on tiny trains. In an extreme case of irony, for a man dedicated to realism, Koestler himself was no more than a mediocre craftsman, so he could only sparingly write articles about his own railroad, as such articles required pictures, and the pictures would have revealed a layout that function as a real thing but looked anything but. However, he soon found a kindred soul in Allen McClelland, a man of considerable talents. He had independently developed a taste for extreme operational realism in creating his Virginian and Ohio railroad, and unlike Koestler had a product that looked quite good. Koestler quickly began featuring McClelland's work. Together, with a few other model railroaders, they began to engage in a massive LARP known as the Appalachian Lines. They would fastidiously document a fictional history of a railroad system set in that area of the country, would work together to model parts of it on their respective layouts, and would operate it as a prototype would. Koestler used his editorial power to heavily promote their way of doing things, regularly featuring articles on layouts within this system.

What a stud.

Back on Furlow's side, as the decade progressed, rumblings began to grow about his modeling abilities. Allegations flew that his works were no more than static sculptures or dioramas. Allegedly he couldn't master basic electrical work, and the aforementioned design flaws of his layouts, like the San Juan Central, were such that trains could not be run on them, according to those who visited his Dallas home. For a hobby that's primary purpose is to replicate a functioning railroad, this is disastrous. Even the most cartoonish of Christmas train loops at least moves around the tree. In addition, there were serious allegations that he had burned commercial clients. There are ways for skilled individuals to make money in this hobby. The first is, as mentioned, to write articles for magazines. A second approach is to be hired to build and photograph a company's model kits for their advertisements. A third is to work with the company to design model kits based on your structures. And a final method is to be hired by rich individuals to build a whole layout for them. Furlow was claimed to be doing all four, but he was doing all four quite poorly. Supposedly he had zero sense of time and deadlines. He would constantly miss delivery dates for commissions, ghost and burn clients, and generally just be a flighty, unreliable artist.

As such, private individuals and companies increasingly turned away from him, decreasing his prominence in the hobby. This was all the de facto kingmakers in the hobby, the magazines. Tony Koestler had consolidated his power immensely, being given official editorial status over many of the magazines and books published by the primary hobby imprint Kalmbach.. He would use this as a cudgel, preventing articles about more fantastical forms of model railroading from being run in favor of his grounded, prototype-only approach. Seizing on the commercial disdain for the man, and citing his failure to write certain agreed-upon articles on time, Malcolm Furlow was almost completely blacklisted. Others who would replicate his more fantastical style were likewise discouraged from sharing. Through Koestler's advocacy, Allen McClelland and those who ran railroads under the Appalachian Lines banner were the fare of the day in the trade press. If you picked up a magazine, it would near-exclusively feature how-to articles dedicated to replicating their style. A few exceptions existed, such as George Selios, but he was only afforded print space because his undeniable eye for detail resulted in an incomparable layout.

So, from being a contributor who would appear on the cover of almost every monthly edition in the mid-80s, Furlow gradually was in the press less and less. The breaks became larger and larger and the print space devoted to him smaller and smaller. By the middle of the 90s, he might be featured once a year, and these gaps became larger and larger. His last appearance in the press was in 2003, after the absence of several years, and it was deliberately provocative in its nature.

Oh boy

This cacophony of color and overload of objects is peak Furlow. No one could mistake this for a functioning railroad; it's a caricature of the subject. The internet had become the center of focus for discussion, and forums lit up with the vituperations of men in their 50s arguing about it. You can find their words on archived message boards, if you are so inclined. And with that last effort, he disappeared from the hobby. Leaving Texas, he moved to New Mexico and shifted his medium to brightly colored paintings of southwestern life. The Koestler-ites had won.

You can buy his work here

Their victory would eventually prove to be likewise contentious. The model railroad is serious business approach, which had gradually become codified in the hobby press of the 1990s, would prove to turn away newcomers. In person events would be described as hostile, with inane questions asked by these neophytes immediately dismissed. If you didn't have decades of experience with trains and their operations coming into the hobby, you would find yourself ostracized, with very few people willing to help. In what would later be regarded as apostasy, Koestler would even turn his column against John Allen, attacking him for not following Tony's rules of model railroading.

The trade press was likewise unbearable. Written by individuals with such experience, the magazines which once contained basic how-to information had degraded to articles focused on the most obscure of minutia. Want to know how to wire up your first layout so it runs? Not a chance. Want to know how to slightly modify your hand-build signals and electrical blocking so that you can replicate the New York Central's specific way of lighting train routes in 1937 instead of 1939? Yes. Unsurprisingly, the hobby's population began to decline, with fewer and fewer new people joining and the boomers starting to die off. In addition, the rise of other hobbies, predominantly video games, would prove to divert the focus of the slightly neurodivergent white man who had long been the hobby's principle demographic.

The long-term repercussions of this debate echo how the hobby itself has changed. What was once the most popular recreational activity for men in America has declined in interest. There are now countless hobbies for individuals to engage in, and railroads no longer hold preeminence in American life. The neurodivergent rivet-counters and flamboyant artists have gradually been forced to set aside their differences, as there's simply not enough modelers to go around otherwise.

Some twenty years after the war begin, you can find boomers still arguing about Furlow on internet forums. See the various internet threads I linked at the bottom for examples. However, even that fervor faded in all but the most passionate. News of Furlow's death in 2022, allegedly from long COVID, resulted only in respectful tributes and obituaries, even in the magazines that had once called for his head.

Perhaps most emblematic of this approach is the rise of module railroading. Instead of trying to build a layout on their own, modelers will make smaller sections according to certain national standards. At conventions, these sections can then be combined into one large railroad, permitting the running of trains at a scale otherwise impossible. Go to see one today, and you'll see that the modules can and do coexist in harmony, with a hyper-realistic scene of a train crossing the countryside connected seamlessly with one detailing a fantasy landscape. Even the most fastidious of modelers will keep a Thomas or two on their layout. For those dedicated to realistic operations of the Tony Koestler variety, it turns out that most are not nearly as concerned with scenic realism. One can unify a track plan designed for running trains in this way with a more exaggerated and fun environment to run them through, and most clubs now adopt this approach to some degree. Where the old guard would once have zealously guarded prototypical operation as sacrosanct, the current hobby is far more welcoming out of necessity.

In the end, what this conflict boiled down to was the Hegelian dialectic made manifest. Between the thesis that model railroads were artistic endeavors and the antithesis that model railroads are real railroads shrunk down in size, a synthesis has emerged. The truth is that model railroads are simply places for people to create their own worlds and see neat little trains run through them, and that's what the hobby has come to agree on. Fun, with a reasonable element of realism, has prevailed.

:marseyrave#: :marseyrave#: ARCHIVAL DRAMA TIME :marseyrave#: :marseyrave#:

Here's some usenet forums from back it the day. Great to see boomers seethe on 90s internet.


Oh, no! The return of Furlow, the master spammer!!!! I thought we were rid of that parasite for good.

I checked out the website, and part of it's sales-pitch text says,

"Remember, Malcolm was the premier modeler of the early to mid-eighties."

No, he was the premier carpetbagger of theearly to mid-eighties. He was in it only for the money. His track plans were operational voids. Granted, his scenery was exceptional, but limited in scope.

Furlow was drummed out of the hobby for his shameless exploitation of Model Railroader as a free advertising medium.

I guess his career as a "western theme artist" didn't pan out and he's back to try to soak us again...


Hating on Furlow as well as George Selios. Even John Allen catches some.

Furlow gets called a charlaten and carpetbagger.

Is Furlow using Photoshop in 1996 a crime against humanity?

Discussing Furlow's last image from 2003

Furlow Bashing. That's the thread

Seething still. Scroll down for discussion as to whether having the miniature people in your town be non-white is political correctness gone too far

It's been forty years, and Jannies still have to mop up and lock threads

And, for a change of pace, people hating on Tony Koester

More can be found if you search



I was scrolling the dreges of reddit for content, as you do..

:!turtoisebinoculars: :turtoisehungry:

I like looking in the BPD subreddit, usually I can find some of the juiciest drama there


Now as many of you know, most diagnosed BPD cases are found in women.

That means a lot of posts on /r/BPD deal with relationships, romance and raging hysteria.


Though, sometimes you get a rare gem. A BPD male, or in this case, a self diagnosed BPD male.


Meet /u/FrankBuns

A twenty something that managed to land one of the most controversial posts in /r/BPD this month.

Quite the accomplishment!

>So, I don't know how this subreddit feels about self-diagnosis, but that's where I'm at right now.

>Some context, I've been dealing with a lot of deeply rooted emotional upheaval throughout my life; Depression, Anxiety, C-PTSD, you know the gist, all diagnosed professionally.

I'll go over some of that later, FrankBuns has been pretty open on reddit.

>But after I got into a serious relationship (that ended recently) I began to recognize my behaviors and thought patterns as more than just my personality.

>I've had a tendency to be somewhat of a hypochondriac, so I know to take research via Google with a grain of salt, but knowing the symptoms and how BPD presents itself, and the anecdotal experiences of others with diagnoses had really given me a new perspective of things, and when I read these stories

>I can't help but think "I do that too! I never realized until now!"

>But, as my previous therapists in the past have told me, I'm pretty self-aware. And I recognized that self-diagnosis can be beneficial, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't just imagining things


>so I discussed it with my current therapist, and after he went over the questions to see if I fit the bill, he told me that he doesn't think I have it.

>It left me really confused and unsure how to proceed.

>I'm not sure if I should take his word for it, or ask for a second opinion, or just focus on treating the symptoms as symptoms and care less about the diagnosis aspect.

>Does anyone else's opinions and beliefs crumble under suggestions? I believed that it's like a spot on match for my experience, but maybe I'm wrong, and it's just symptoms of my other issues imitating what looks like BPD?

The Controversy

Now surprisingly, despite all the times I've seen otherwise, the denizens of /r/BPD did not pat FrankBuns on the back or butt and say "welcome to the community!!"

Apparently, the communal braincell all redditors fight over was well and alive in this post's comments:

Why worry about the diagnosis. In my experience having a diagnosis doesn't do much for you aside from changing how doctors think about you. Worry about treating the symptoms you're experiencing and improving your quality of life. Diagnosis are just unnecessary labels that can come with stigma and lack of understanding.

FrankBuns: Because I want to get better, and idk, I feel like that would have to be the first step. I think there's a lot of reason in your comment, I'd like to think that even if I don't have BPD (which I still believe that I do) then learning the skills to handle it would be beneficial if not for dealing with my issues, then helping a loved one or friend in the future who might be going through the same stuff.

Then do DBT, anyone can do DBT.

Redditor Sneeding about "the system"

:#marseycapitalistmanlet: :#chudditorseethe:

everything's a racket, it wouldn't exist in a capitalist society if it weren't.

dsm just allows clinicians to standardize care and makes billing easier, it's not any grand insight into human existence. look up some articles about dsm5 and professionals in the field who take exception with the changes from dsm4. It's just academics bickering, whose pet theories get to dominate.

Yes, I'm bitter. Grants Pass decision was a direct indictment of the failure of American care, we had 40 years of funding to provide treatment and people don't feel like we were effective now and now we aren't focusing on treatment anymore. This whole field dropped the ball and vulnerable people will suffer. Frick the dsm.

You'd be better off reading the bhagavad gita or dostoyevsky than the dsm if you're trying to heal.


Right about now, you may be asking:

"wait a sec, Lilmarsey, how do you know that this is actually a moid posting this and not an FtM?"


I'm so glad you asked, now you'll have to see it, too:

I will not be posting the other two pictures, you can go to r/dadsandboys and look at that yourself.


His whole butthole was out


It makes sense that he'd have some of these traits, given that this is a

✨ homosexual ✨



Hmm...funny you should say that.


mental illness comes with friends


FrankBuns has also posted about shrooms and has expressed interest in DMT.

He was also a chronic masturbator.

FrankBuns also has a track record of being a bit of a hypochondriac.

Making posts like "what is this dark spot on my foot", and "why does my foot have orange spots"

He's also a very active furry, and stupid enough to facedoxx.

I'm sure you may also be wondering

"Wow! I wonder the relationship FrankBuns ominously mentioned went?"

I'm so glad you asked:

The "break"

As we all know, either party asking for a time out in a relationship usually bodes badly for relationship stability.

"Wow, that didn't last long, did it?"


>Me and my boyfriend met at our work, and he ended up asking me out on a date after we finished one day.

>We have been dating for around 6 months now

>It's your typical "One cares too much, one cares too little." Situation.

>We've both gotten a break from work, and instead of making plans together, he applied to a part-time job, took a summer volunteer position

>We both were upset and questioned the compatibility of our relationship, and I suggested we take a break

>but I'm willing to put in the work

>Tl;dr Boyfriend closes up when things get hard, I latch on, we're having trouble finding a balance.


TLDR: typical redditor that I spent way too much time writing about

EFFORTPOST Free State Province Burning Down in Winter Drought and High Winds :onfire2: :onfire2: :flamethrower2: :flamethrower2:

Greetings Dramatards, it's fricking cold in South Africa currently, and it's snowing in Sutherland, in the Northern Cape Province.

And snow is extremely rare in south africa, so this is an especially cold winter :marseyfrozen: :marseyfrozen: :marseyfrozen: :marseyfrozen: At least for all of the inland provinces, record low temperatures, and all following on the tailcoats of the last El Nino weather phenomenon, means while the 2 years prior were abnormally wet, this year has been aggressively cold

It's a running meme/steriotype that boers are immune to cold, or allergic to longpants

Which is where the gay boy shorts uniforms of the 1980s came from.

Lesotho (the country in the middle of SA) is also more prone to snowing, compared to the rest of the surrounding nation, due to its high elevation, and numerous mountain ranges.

Even high mountains in provinces not at all prone to snow, has light snow coverage on their peaks.

Anyways point is it is abnormal conditions in SA currently, even though SA is usually already pretty cold at this stage of the year in its climatic history.

All except the Free State and much of the Eastern Provinces of South Africa, in which regions are currently combatting some of the worst and most intense wildfires of the past 5 years.

This is because places like the Free State are very arid Semi-Deserts in large portions of the province, and the winter counter-intuitively has higher rates and risks of forest and veld fires than in the Summer. This is because while summer's heat definitely aggravates circumstances to high risks of literal spontaneous combustion, it is also the raining season for inlands in most of the country, and consequently there would be a watering of the earth to combat the heat.

In Winter, especially in the Free State and KwaZulu-Natal provinces, despite the cold, the velds and forests are much more prone to combustion. This is because of the hyper drought which yearly besets southern africa, and the Cold counter-intuitively aggravates dry circumstances. The cold means less evaporation and less clouds, and the freezing of water which prevents the evaporation of whichever water mediums remaining even further.

When Cold Fronts arrive, they can bring massive freak winds with them, and it is in high wind situations where veld fires really thrive. This recent Sunday a massive Cold Front froze the whole center of the country over :marseyill: :marseyill: :marseyill: :marseyflagantarctica: and brought with it 70km/h consistent winds, which are abnormal in their strength and consistency.

Several thousand small wildfires have been breaking out hourly for the past 3 days, and several hundred fires continue to burn in the Free State and KwaZulu-Natal whom were both hardest hit.

The fast sustaining winds meant that even the flicker of embers would explode into roaring flames :flamethrower2: :flamethrower2: :flamethrower2: :flamethrower2: as the extreme drought made every leaf and blade of grass a tinderbox

i was helping my father and some other boers here in the province driver hydrant and fire-firefighting vehicles around yesterday afternoon and night.

Which is a lot less heroic than it sounds, basically I was driving a water-trailer around for the real men to do the hard work.

Farmers have organized into Brandwag, or burning vigilance since forever, and a smoke trail on the horizon usually has bakkies scrambled to come to the aid of your neighbours, even as out of sheer interest it is in your desire to extinguish such flames in their cradle, before they become an uncontrollable firestorm spreading outwards everywhere, additionally the wind can always always change.

The biggest r-sluration is that most farmers and municipal teams working are usually all amateurs and most commercial farmers of even the small type usually has a shitty fire-fighting wagon in their store-house of 5 years old and only once tested, as per regulations,

and thus the 1st responders always being the most untrained farmers who've never even held a firehose in their lives is always comical in our ineptitude, before the Provincial Professional Firefigting response squads arrive which usually can be hours if not half a day late as the country is large.

There's this one 80 year old grandma lady who still works for the Municipality whom have been dousing flames since sunday afternoon - she says the perpetual amateur mistake municipal workers and boers not used to fighting fire makes, is not to totally overdose simmering flames,

as perpetually the teams had to go back and re-extinguish fires because they had failed to completely douse embers in their totality, and certain carbon remains, even surrounded by water, eventually dries in the extremely dry Free State, and literally fricking begins anew!

Here is a professional rural firefighting vehicle unit, if it looks unprofessional because it's not a classic Euro/American city firetruck then realize that a regular 4x4 vehicle with a trailer is by far the superior required vehicle for transporting water over seldom tread rural dusty dirtroads in the Free State and KwaZulu-Natal. Since the potholes, underdevelopment, extreme isolation and offroad rugged terrain conditions, means that fire-lorries meant for cities, are completely unsuited for the velds of South Africa.

there are however sometimes special dedicated water transporting vehicles used, but these often are too specialized for poor municipalities - a provincial Toyota 4x4 with a water-trailer works just as effectively as fancy crap.

anyways just telling you strags this, cuz i haven't responded to the shitload of comments of yesterday, will fix that soon :marseywave2:

Reported by:
  • Healthy : 👏 these 👏 are 👏 not 👏 effortposts!
EFFORTPOST Patriot master work

There were a lot of hits and in cities that were supposed to be protected by patriot like Kiev and Khrivoi Rog

This patriot system that was destroyed 2 days ago and obviously pro Ukrainian claimed it's fake. Was supposed to protect khruvoi rog.

Ukraine started campaign that Russia supposedly hit some hospital with x101 missile

It's a slowed down video so you can compare that missile with couple of x101 hitting same target

Ukraine also didn't mention that main strike was at night and only focused at that hospital.

Ukraine put a lot of effort in this campaign

But question should been what do they expect from it ? US already rushed saying they won't let Ukraine use its weapons on Russian soil. There also wouldn't be any new weapons for Ukraine and Israel with Gaza made sure nobody would give a frick about this event.

But what's important to me is

I been telling for months patriots ain't going to do a shit. And now after Ukraine received more patriots than Germany has, and Zelenskyy promised it would stop Russian bombings. We are enjoying how effortless Russian is bombing a city that has most patriot defence on earth. As I mention in the past, patriots can stop around 100 missiles a year. It's probably less in reality because factories that build those often get caught in fire and storages etc in nato countries get blown up like this happened 2 days ago:

Only a year ago they were proudly claiming patriots are shooting down kinzhals

And now they have to beg Israel to give them ammo

>Could Turn the Tide

If Zelenskyy poo right now it could turn the tide, I mean everything is theoretically possible.

With new Orlan drones Ukraine is now constantly also losing Himars vehicles

The targets Russian hit yesterday was some factories and some electricity generators but that's just propping since Russian main goal is to send Ukraine into blackout during the winter.

The winter part will be very interesting because with constant blackouts a lot of Ukrainian will move to the west.

But don't worry to Bloomberg Zelenskyy promised a new counteroffensive and that he end this conflict by end of this year. And yesterday signed some agreements with Poland and Poland promised to him they will shot Russian missiles that enter Polish air space. It's a good promise is will be as effective as:

Russian missiles are just couple seconds in Polish air space, shooting them in Polish air space + making sure it falls in Polish soil is kinda very hard to do. Russia has radars in that area so if Polish missile hits Russian missile in Ukrainian air space it will be a direct involvement.

Edit: seems later Poland did an back-steep

Tusk on the idea of shooting down missiles in Ukraine's skies: we need NATO cooperation for this

We need unequivocal cooperation within NATO for this, because this kind of action does require joint NATO responsibility.

So it was just some food for Ukrainian to feel good yesterday

Edit: Ukrainian twitter channel today flex that it got patriot from Germany on 5 June and something (probably ammo) from Romania on 20 June

They couldn't pick a better day to flex about it

EFFORTPOST My hatred of types of Locked content in games, Supreme Autismo Longpost Rant :marseytrollcrazy: :marseytrollcrazy: :marseytrollcrazy: :marseytrollcrazy: :marseytrollcrazy: Pathfinder: WotR - Secret Ending Sneed :marseyautism:

Disclaimer: This is a rant and will probably be be boring and contain no drama, sorry guyz :marseywave2: :marseywave2: :marseywave2:


Owlcat is the double AA indie company which published the recent Pathfinder: kingmaker and Pathfinder: Wrath of the righteous games, with also the recent 40K: Rogue Trader game, usually they are my favorite publisher, but basically they made a secret ending so fricking complex and batshit insane , that I've been spending the past 24 hours using (wasting) my lifespan on the Pathfinder subreddits and forums,

bitching about how the fricking Secret ending riles me up so much beyond reason and how my mouth-foaming :marseychainsmoker: :marseychainsmoker: :marseychainsmoker: :marseychainsmoker: reaction to it is so wildly disproportionate to its actual importance to the world and life at large, but then again this site informs us to blow shit as wildly out of proportion as feasible, so I'm GOING TO :marseytrollgun: :marseytrollgun: :marseytrollgun: :marseytrollgun:

I've been having discussions with other straggots who've managed to complete this secret ending, who've accused me of being salty of not being able to figure it out myself, which is what has had me SEETHING and COPING and DILATING the entirety of last night :marseycope: :marseycopeseethedilate: :marseycopeseethedilate: :marseycopeseethedilate: :marseycopeseethedilate: :marseycopeseethedilate: :marseycopeseethedilate: :marseycopeseethedilate:


This is in response to the even more hardcore community in the Pathfinder: WOTR community after, youtuber dropping a definitive guide to actually obtain the fricking much vaunted and gossiped about Secret Ending of the WOTR game, which had infamy since the games release back in SSeptember 2021, so the game is pretty much 3.5ish years old already at this point.

The youtuber in question, MortisimalGaming, has carved his niche as the premier CRPG game reviewer, and also being unique in the gayming reviewer space by actually 100% percenting fricking games, via obtaining all steam achievements, if achievements or trophies are a thing in said game, as you can imagine his autism functions on an entirely other level from average mortals, which is very impressive as according to himself he's actually a father, and has a son (What's your excuse dramatards! :marseysunflower:) Despite his impressive steam Achievement portfolio, he maintains humility and claims that he considers himself not to really be a hardcore g*mer, or even especially good/talented, and merely that his literal occupation as a gaymer-tuber enables him indefinite time to lay siege to games, and obtain experience as to how game devs have their design philosophies cracked to be able to defeat challenges which would turn away average mortals.

He especially made a name for himself as someone who made very useful guides for Pathfinder and Larians' Divinity: Original Sin 2. So he has that turbo nerd cred in CRPGS :marseynerd2: :marseynerd2: :marseynerd2: :marseynerd2:

So you guys need to comprehend the sheer levels of autism required to know these things, and for people to follow them, they are neurodivergents to neurodivergents, to what neurodivergents are to normal people!


On forums I wont name, there had even been arguments that the Secret Ending of WOTR (Wrath of the Righteous) didn't exist, or was too fricking convoluted to figure out, or was even fricking bugged for many to complete. Since September 2021, many completionists even bitched and complained that the extreme and highly specific actions one must perform to fricking unlock the Secret Ending of WOTR, and there had been minor turbo-autism slapfights :slapfight: :slapfight: frick-you-got-mine peeps who had somehow obtained the achievement, and those that were seeking it.

Many people didn't even believe or know the fricking secret ending existed, until people datamined the game and found a Steam Achievement for it or utilized Unity Mods to data mine the fricking game and discover flags that needed to be triggered in ingame events, similar as to the Biowhere Mass Effect game where you needed to complete actions to enable the ability to even unlock choices later ingame.

And again, due to the size and complexity of WOTR, there had been a metric shitload :marseylifting: :marseylifting: :marseylifting: :marseylifting: of bugs which affected anything from abilities not doing what they described, to literal pivotal plot points to proccing because of bugs - Literally up until last month, massive gaming overhaul bugs and pathes, literally more than 3 years since release, have involved fixing game mechanics not working as intended or dialogue bugs.

For many the entire Secret Ending was impossible, because bugs would prevent specific needed plot interactions at just one specific moment, meaning if they fricking did just that one thing wrong, the rest of their actions working towards the secret ending was entirely moot.

There had been guides to the secret ending, but prior to MortisimalGaming's guide, they had all been flawed, outdated or didn't take into consideration of bugs, cuz the writer themselves weren't affected by them. So Mortisimal dropped a mini nuke yesterday. :marseynukegoggles: :marseynukegoggles: :marseynukegoggles: :marseyoppenheimer: :marseyoppenheimer: :marseyoppenheimer: with how comprehensive and complete his guide is, especially after Owlcat devs fixed most of the plot bugs after 3 years.


And oh my god - just to make the rest of you neurodivergents on understand the level of autism involved in this shit - the video which I know none of you will click on, is a colossal 35 fricking minutes lonnnnnng :marseylong1: :marseylong2: :marseylong3: :marseyllama1: :marseyllama2: :marseyllama3: :carplong1: :carplong2: :carplong3:

Just to make you guys appreciate the monumental amount of shit you guys have to do right accomplish this secret ending.

The effort to do this to unlock the secret ending, is wildly, wildly, wildly, wildy, wildly disproportionate to accomplish this. What's even more when i verbalized this frustration (autism) to other frickers on Pathfinder forums they just blocked me or told me it was totally easy and reasonable.

I'm going to waste your lifespan explaining why this shit made me :marseyrage: :marseyrage: :marseyrage: :marseyrage: :marseyrage: :marseyrage:


Back when Pathfinder: Kingmaker was released, it also had a secret ending, which the devs explicitly alluded to in their Kickstarter campaign, when they as an indie company had no capacity to fund themselves out of pocket, and they had actually went to monumental effort to both create this secret ending, to cater to their biggest kickstarter patrons.

When Pathfinder: Kingmaker was released back in 2018, like many CRPGs riding on the renewal of Obsidians Pillars of Eternity, they were overly ambitious in their inclusion of their Kingdom Management simulator portion of their game, and ironically this Kingdom Management was very unpopular and very controversial for many customers and even original Kickstarter backers.

The Kingdom Management was so controversial that it divided the fanbase, and actually almost cost the fricking devs sales of the game, as early reviews were so largely negative, stating that the actual adventuring and RPG mechanics was fun, but its tethering towards the Kingdom simulation basically made them stop playing or even refund the game!! :marseysmokealarmbeep: :marseyscream: :marseyscream: the poor devs were forced to spring into lightning speed, to create an option to automate the Kingdom Management, to entirely skip this shit. :marseyoptimusprime: I don't know if this was during the Early access phase as it was during my time at university.

But even this automated Kingdom button would be controversial :marseyoverseether: :marseyoverseether: :marseyoverseether: Because basically, the actual events of you deciding with your advisors, and determining whether your kingdom would be evil or orderly was interesting and well written, and the manner in which you as a burgeoning new fantasy ruler have to deal with various crisis was intriguing,

BUT THE AUTOMATED setting meant that the fricking game made default choices for you, and bypassing much choice which was equally unsatisfying and COMPLETELY removed the roleplaying from the Kingdom :marseyking: :marseykingsmug:part of the game which was pretty baked into the rest of the game, so you WERE missing out on a great deal of story and roleplay if you fricking went with this option.

It was a lose lose situation.

"Just know that in making it auto you will forfeit receiving any accomplishments that are normally granted by doing it yourself. Not sure what accomplishments as of yet tho.. I also don't know if you still need to visit your kingdom once a month if it's set to auto"

"Beneath The Stolen Lands is so much more fun than the main game that I can't progress past the 2nd chapter in it because management sucks. I wish the game was like NWN1/2 with more of an adventure/crawl rather than loads of dice roll events trying to frick you every month in your Kingdom where Advisors will fail due to bad RNG and then continue to fail as they become worse."

"Auto is not a solution as you no longer have a say in anything and it ruins roleplaying. The management would have been fine if it had a "Off" button where failure in events and game overs relating to it were disabled but you coud still make choices and customize your kingdom in the usual way."

"The only issue I have with Kingdom Management is that it's all stick and no carrot. Aside from a vague relationship between the kingdom stats and the artisans, you don't really get anything from having a booming kingdom versus one on the verge of revolt."

"If higher kingdom stats increased the number of merchants in your capital, conferred bonus stats on your party members, or had some other mechanical interaction with the game; I would consider it much less of a nuisance. There are the projects that give you bonuses while in your claimed lands, but pretty much every new chapter takes you out of your land so they never really matter. Artisans are nice, but their random nature makes them questionable - especially on a first run where you don't really know what you're getting from them."

"Yeah they really really need to either let all your "potential" advisors actually take part to keep up with all the events if you are on top of things or, they need to make it so that all events pop up at the beginning of the month. I suppose its not really realistic but, neither is having an event pop on the 30th that will auto fail once it rolls over to the first of the month."


The issue was that this Kingdom Management was possibly one of the worst of rulership simulations ever created in the entirety of gaming. In a vacuum it would be fine if not enjoyable, but the manner in which you as a player are introduced to fricking the management mechanics is horrific and highly cruel and unfair.

You received staggered information on the importance of significant mehcanics, like your need of Advisors which are critical, and critical to get as early as humanly possible. The game doesn't inform you, but basically you are in a massive stress inducing timer :marseychainsmoker: :marseychainsmoker: :marseychainsmoker: :marseychainsmoker: :marseychainsmoker: the very moment you begin the campaign, and if you camp spam too much, you will enable time to pass to much to the point of no return.

You as a fricking 1st time player will never know this, and for 90% of players, for whom this will be their 1st and ONLY playthrough, will only realize this calamity 20 hours into the game, past the point of no return, and when it is beyond their capacity to salvage their situation.

In the early game, in the 1st chapter, the way you are SUPPOSED to play, is make a beeline straight towards all Advisors to unlock their capacity to govern your various different parts of your government. You AS A Green fresh faced new will not know this, will not know that you are on a timer, or even WHERE on the overwolrd map to find them, or even that there will exist departments in your governments to fricking need a post in lategame.

Depending on which routes you take on the overworld, you will obtain needed Advisors based on pure fricking luck if you go in blindly. Even guides covering the RPG character builds dont often warn players of this critical fact. :marseytrollcrazy: :marseytrollcrazy: :marseytrollcrazy:

And why is this critical?! Especially early game? Because the Kingdom Management will throw crises at you with incrementally more difficulty, which if you need to level your Advisors against over time. If you are up shit creek because your advisors were discovered too late, and have not been able to level them up in tandem with the increasingly difficulty of crisis management, then you will very quickly find a point of no return. Because guess the fun part of this shit :marseyrage: Your Advisors ONLY levels up on successful crisis handling,

meaning if you fail even ONCE :marseyembrace: :marseyexcited: :marseyexcited: you will initiate the cockup cascade into your eventual demise, and if your underleveled Advisor, whom you had no way of fricking knowing would be important down the line was underleveled , then the cockup cascade is basically guaranteed :marseyexcitedgif: :marseyexcitedgif: :marseyexcitedgif: :marseyrage: :marseyrage:

Basically the game would retroactively severely punish for suboptimal decisions you had made for as many as 20-30 hours, when you literally didn't even know you were making a decision at the time.


It reminded me of X-COM which was a semi-roguelike which explicitly had baked in its design philosophy to have the player fail down the line, but to manage failure against success, I really fricking hated his game :marseyexcited: :marseyexcited: :marseyexcited: it too would punish you 20 hours down the line, and past the point of no return.

It reminded me of why RTS genre games would be by order of magnitudes less popular than regular shooters or other multiplayer games. If you lose or screw up or make a mistake, you are punished immediately and the consequences are inconsequentially short - you go back to teh starting line.

But if you make a mistake on an RTS game, even and usually especially a single player campaign, you will only realize your mistake maybe 1 hour into play, and will realize a suboptimal choice your had made strategically in the very beginning of the game is now retroactively punishing you 1 hour into the game, leaving you to the slow burn RTS death or quitting, yet even such a setback only ever takes an hour or afternoon of your lifespan.

What was especially aggravating and cruel about Pathfinder: Kingmaker's bullshit Kingdom Management, was that you would be :marseybattered: :carpwhip: :carpwhip: :carpwhip: punished retroactively into the game, for as much as 20-40 hours of gameplay! For a bad choice you didn't know you were making. For traditional games, or games which aren't as ruthless as XCOM, you pick yourself up from the dust and just fricking restart the mission. But for Kingmaker, you would effectively be throwing away 40 hours of play, and even if you willed yourself to fricking restart all the grueling effort, and wasting through plot twists which you thus already know now with hindsight, ruining the retread :marseyitsallsotiresome: :marseyitsallsotiresome: :marseyitsallsotiresome: - this basically has a design philosophy in competing areas, to test your roleplay of a character against forewarned knowledge just to succeed in the fricking, which is NOT roleplaying :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed:

Even Dark Souls, is never this punishing to players (also it's not that hard, KEEP YOURSELF SAFE FromSoftsFantrags), the actual moment to moment failure maybe robs you of 1/2 hour of your life. And even crap builds can be and are expected to play through by the core design philosophy of Dark soulshit.

I really fricking despise thee notion of having your endeavor in a game be pointless, and especially despise the notion of being Retroactively be punished by devs, which is also why I personally hate Roguelikes.


The other important thing which raised some :slapfight: :slapfight: :slapfight: in the CRPG shadows of the internet, was the difficult and convoluted manner in which peeps were able to unlock the secret ending of the game, which was similarly complex, but not nearly to the same degree as that of WOTR.

Summary of :eaglebikini: PLOT: Basically you and a bunch or brokeass mercenary strags are hired by Aldori dorks to subdue the massive banditry of the Stolen Lands :marseyrobber: :platypirate: and hopefully induce some level of stability into this historically unstable shithole, and as rewards, whichever loser mercenaries succeed and survive would be acknowledged and raised as a Baron/Baroness of the region by the neighbours of the Stolen Lands they just "conquered" to basically be their backyard buffer against banditry.

Your straggy main character becomes a Baron/ess and thus must thus play Sim City from Heck in the next 5 years, and basically put out the fires :onfire: :onfire: :onfire: :marseynecklace: :marseynecklace: :marseynecklace: :flamethrower2: :flamethrower2: :onfire2: :onfire2: of calamity after calamity, as your new fledgling Barony appears to have the worst case of Bad Luck on the entire fricking planet, and is just fricking besieged by problems beyond counting. You manage sewage in the morning and fight off bandit invaders in the afternoon, and it appears like your new nation state is just filled to the brim with fricking 5th columnists :marseycomradecry: :marseytrotsky: hellbent of sabotaging your new nationbuilding project at every turn, and you also have to stop invasions of Fey Fairy frickers from the Fairy Fey dimension (not joking)

Basically it seems like the fricking Gods are fricking conspiring to burn down your new young Barony, and mid-game plot twist, after having faced off hordes or rampaging bandits, trolls and Barbarians (Micks :marseyhibernian:), you find out to your disbelief that there ACTUALLY ARE demigods conspiring to r*pe your kingdom to the ground!

The plot twist is that Narissa, a sexy Fey dryad treelady :carpmermaid: :marseybutt: :marseyfoxxylove: chick, whom helped you from the very beginning of the game to overthrow the Bandit King to establish your Barony in the 1st place, is also conspiring to overthrow your new Barony as well. And has been behind every turn and twist and invasion and calamity which has befallen your Barony since you took charge!

The end game has you kill this cc*nt to finally establish peace and prosperity in the Region of the Stolen Lands, and you become a good/bad/r-slurred ruler whatever.

The super duper SECRET ending of the game, is you finding out WHY Narissa has been sabotaging not just your new Kingdom and that of the Bandit King before you arrived on the scene, but basically EVERY single kingdom and nation state in the Stolen Lands for the literal past 1000 years. In FACT you realize that the very reason the Stolen Lands have been so historically unstable and prone to banditry and chaos and shit has been because of Narissa all along!!!!!! :marseyscream: :marseyscream: :marseyscream: And that she has basically sabotaged the nationbuilding of every single nation state ever endeavored in the region for the past millennium acting as this demigod 5th columnist over and over, breaking and sabotaging every single concurrent state or kingdom after one another.

You find out WHY the frick :marseywtf: :marseywtf: :marseywtf: she would do this in the SECRET ending, as she had been cursed and her own Fey kingdom been cursedraped by the super straggy Lantern King in Feytopia (another dimension connected to your fantasy world, where the barrier was weak in the Stolen Lands) because she had made a failed coup against another Fey someshit

As punishment, she has to fill a magic jar with the grains of sand, where very single grain of sand represents ONE KINGDOM which she must destroy, in order to undestroy her magic Fey kingdom in turn, and thus she has been in constant 5th columnisting in the Stolen Lands for the past 1000 years.


It's a pretty good ending and extra story with a full extra 10 fricking hours of gameplay and fights after the traditional ending after you defeat Narissa. You can even redeem Narissa or romance the b#tch if you are an evil overlord!! (WHICH I DID BY THE WAY) :marseyinsane: :marseyinsane: :marseyinsane: :bite:


My problem?!!!!! :marseyschizotwitch: :marseyschizotwitch: :marseyschizotwitch: :marseyschizotwitch: :marseyschizotwitch: :marseytrollgun: :marseytrollgun: :marseytrollgun: :marseytrollgun: Ulocking this super fricking r-slurred ending is in my opinion too convoluted and r-slurred and unfair1!!!111!!!!

Some buttholes on the sub or forum would be like "get gud" and how THEY totally fricking easily got the secret ending of Kingmaker and how it was all :marseybigbrain: logical and shit, and only subhumans :brainletpit: could not figure out how to unlock the Secret ending, and I was like

:marseykys2: :marseykys2: :marseykys2: :marseykys2: :marseykys2: :marseykys2:

Because I actually DID UNLOCK THE SECRET UNDING in my 1st playthrough of Kingmaker, even as I was getting anally keelhauled by the Kingdom Management system, but the r-sluration was that I had done so with pure fricking unadulterated luck, I didn't accomplish it through any amount of thinking or logic or intuition or choices, I just stumbled my way through the right choices like and idiot-savant-r-slur and this ENRAGED MEEEEEEEEEEE :marseyrage: :marseyrage: :marseyrage: :marseyrage:

Because was just as likely to fail as succeed and would have been robbed of the choice 100 hours into the game had i been luckless enough not to have fricking made the right choices to unlock the Secret Ending in Kingmaker, and the ability to prone-bone the Fey tart :pepoboner: :pepoboner: :pepoboner: :marseyskeleton: :marseyskeleton: :marseyskeleton:

I am willing to bet half of the buttholes who got the steam Achievement :marseywinner: of completing the secret ending had only done so with luck, and 50% sure as heck didn't obtain it through skill or reasoning :marseybeanannoyed:

Like look at this shit to do it right!!

LIKE LOOK AT THE SHEEEER AMOUNT OF SHIT YOU HAVE TO DO :marseytrollcrazy: :marseytrollcrazy: :marseytrollcrazy:


Also you can secret romance the Badguy Narissa at the end if you're evil enough, and some had comments about her:

On a Steam forum thread where players theorized about the possibility, one suggested you'd be better off romancing literally any other NPC, since they "don't look like lettuce." A player who was more intrigued by the possibility replied, "She has 36 in charisma so she is a good looking lettuce." :marseyxd: :marseyxd: :marseyxd: :marseyxd: :marseyxd: :marseyxd: :marseyxd:

Now normally an ambitious game which creates content fearless if it will be missed by many, and is antithetical to games like Skyrim which hold your hand with markers, I would like.

After all many peeps complained that even story driven games like Life Is Strange have railroading throughout its plot, and many choices don't have meaning anyways,

But I hate this type of content blocking just as much, because you as a player may never even be able to KNOW that you were at a point in making a choice or your inaction would lock you off from a Secret Ending, and thus be retroactively punished by a game like Kingmaker by as much as 90 fricking hours worth of playtime, realizing too late you can't go back and change your decision!!!!


I found this comment chain on a sub which perfectly encapsulates and verbalizes my frustration with this problem.

On the surface the ambition of these indie devs should be infinitely more celebrated over camp Triple AAA story slop where minor inconsequential choices never seem to affect the outcome of the main story in Developers like TellTales games, which have been accused of such, but are still highly revered by their main fanbase regardless.

Because it is the ultimate INVERSE problem, where you are railroaded too steeply in TellTale and other story games, instead it is TOO easy to block yourself out of specific lategame Secret endings like in Owlcat because you didn't fricking adhere to Adventure-Game-Moonlogic

It instead transforms otherwise praiseworthy design philosophy of ultimate choice into the g*mer's hands, as actually unintentionally blocking out too easily. Like you can be fricking AWARE of the secret ending an even be able to intuition your way into solving the problem of WOTR (Wrath of the Righteous) Secret Ending, but if you so much as unintentionally made a fricking mistake and made a specific binary chocie in the goddarn PROLOGUE of the game,

CONGRADULATIONS, you have just blocked yourself out of the secret ending of the game!!!!!! :soymad: :soymad: :soymad:

I personally don't even mind bad endings in games if they are proportionally telegraphed by the devs ingame, like for example the Vampire Masquerade: Bloodlines, has several bad and really bad endings, all of which are telegraphed over and over and OVER from the very beginning, and outside of very specific actions, none of the fricking endings are locked out to you, including a couple of "Secret Endings", or at least as cruelly easily like that of fricking WOTR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"On one hand- this is awesome that "true ending" can be obtained only if someone is really determined to do so (I guess that person who wrote this guide in the first place must have spent few hundred hours to achieve this), but on the other- It's rather poor design choice to make it so railroaded (it seems like there's very little room for straying from the path, i.e.- failing Vordakai's curse check or killing Tartuk first- which is most reasonable choice as he buffs Hargulka). This feels sort of "gamey" for an RPG (I mean- it wouldn't be possible without being able to start over with previous knowledge of meta-game)."

"My point is that it takes very specific approach to reach this ending- not that it's too hard. If there was- for example- any indication that killing Hargulka first will yield different outcome than killing Tartuk than it'd be fine, now it seems arbitrary. I don't mind that it has to be done in certain order (although it would be cool to have such ending for characters that don't want to act compassionately towards Nyrissa), making encounters harder and being devoted to the goal, but it'd be nice if it could be achieved by wider array of characters and not necessarily gated behind skill checks (what's the point of reloading game only to have single RNG result different?)."

:marseyhesright: :marseyhesright: :marseyhesright: :marseyhesright:


Anyways I basically triggered myself with the release of this video, as it confirmed just how painfully specific the path ahead to the secret ending is in the game, even compared to that of Kingmaker.

A lot of peeps praise Owlcat and the fact that devs would include such a mountain of content probable never to be seen by the majority of players, which is an admirable design philosophy, especially in comparison to railroading Triple AAA slop,

but I personally feel like I basically fallen out of love with Owlcat because of this - it ticked me off beyond reason.

Even a couple of Youtube-comments, through the usual blind praise towards the Youtube or circlejerk of the subjectmatter, also mirrors my complex feelings on the matter of the Secret Ending and how it is implemented in WOTR

"Very convoluted & cryptic way to get to the "secret" ending tbh. In fact it is so convoluted that I have even heard an opinion that conditions to meet are so "unfair" that a lot of people were apparently using some save editor tool to alter in-game date so it would unlock the ending (which apparently works)."


there's also other reasons why I hate the Secret Ending.

Basically the main Posterchild Badguy, is Areelu Vorlesh, whom opened the Worldwound onto the fanatasy planet, which is basically an interdimensional portal staright to a demonic heck, and the setting of the game has been basically for 130 years the mortal humans/elves/dwarves have been fihghting desperate crusades to close this Worldwound super portal to save all of mortalkind

So Areelu Vorlesh is basically super fantasy hitler, and have caused absolutely tremendous suffering for the peeps of this fantasy world, yet in order to fricking fascilitate the Secret Ending, you have to fcucking understand her side of teh story,

which is interesting and cool, but morally can be r-slurred. She basically has that anime-cliche where she has a sad traumatic backstory, so all the horrors he had inflicted upon others is totally cancelled out :marseywholesome: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed:

Additionally, you absolutely cannot finish the Secret ending as a Legend mythic path, which sees your protagonist giving up all their magic demigod powers, to become a Legend of mortalkind, and basically rule as an average everybody to save the planet from demonic invasion, and erect your own nationstate on the ashes of the Worldwound

It's my favorite mythic path because I enjoy narratives where you relinquish extreme power in favor of responsibility, yet due to the zany twister morality of the Owlcat devs this is inherently antithical to the Secret Ending, which sees you ascending into Godhood basically.

It sort of feels like the implied BEST ending is only achievable through the avarice for ultimate power for your character, instead of a form of redemption where you realize to live your remaining years amongst mortals as a hero - it's fricking weird :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed:


Others on the youtube video share the sentiment that the requirements are too extreme, and feel like the game is sort of retroactively punishing them as in the eyes of the devs as they had no forewarned knowlegde to accomplish the demanding tasks to fulfill the requirements of the Secret Ending.

ALSO by the way, like the Kingdom Management in the 1st Pathfinder game, there is a Crusade Management system midgame, which is basically Heroes of Might and Magic

So if you pretty much hate that part, and hate Heroes of Might and magic as a genre, and want it automated like in the 1st pathfinder game, once again you are fricking shit out of luck, and have to engage with this system, in order to fulfill the requirements of teh Secret Ending.

I personally love Heroes of Might and Magic, and enjoy this "mini" game but can absolutely empathize with peeps who would abhor this shit, just as I had personally abhorred the Kingmaker's Kingdom Management system :marseyyikes:


Basically in summary I really really fricking hate this Secret Ending, I hate the complexity of its requirements, I hate the fact that it's near impossible to do on your first run, I hate the fact that you can even realize of its existence and even figure out somewhat how to do it, but have fricking unknowingly locked yourself out via an unwitting earlygame choice - and I hate HATE the feeling that I am being punished retroactively by developers for having made a "bad" or suboptimal choice

Especially in very very Loooong games like the two Pathfinder games each of which can easily take a 1st run from 70-100 hours. Imagine the cruel sensation of playing for 50 fricking hours, only to realize midgame that you've unknowingly cucked yourself out of a secret choice you would have wanted to make, and that the ingame files are complex with tracking plot-flags, that even using Unity-mods are basically impossible to fix your unwitting frick up.

Even bad endings on Dishonoured, with its chaos system is telegraphed by the game throughout and you can change course midway.

This Secret Ending of WOTR leaves a very sour taste in my mouth :marseylemon: :marseylemon: :marseylemon:


Hexbear response

Note that if you want to dunk on chapoids, you will have to create an account on an instance like, defederated from hexbear


:marseylongpost2: from a hexbear chapo

Dude unironically wrote an essay about why heckin Hexbear shouldn't be defederated lmao. They're also defending their heckin chapo instance lmao

another hexbear essaypost from a chapoid

I really have no problem with communist or leftist views, but some of those guys need to take a chill pill. I'm cool with bashing the fash and social welfare programs, I'm not cool with basically talking about how everyone to the right of Stalin needs to die or how Tianenmen Square was a wholesale fabrication by the west. I typically just roll my eyes, block the bullshit and move on with life, but it's been really dragging down my lemmy experience.

Is asking, Does Ukraine really have a neo-Nazi problem?, make me a poopin puppet? :marseyazov2:

Kremlin propaganda

Okay what is meant by this because I have literally no idea

like, you had previously thought communist symbolism in general was Kremlin propaganda, before it was pointed out otherwise. So what still applies to the term? Any defense of modern russia? defense of the USSR? militant communism in general? Revolutionary Marxism? Its a blanket term that doesn't seem to be fully defined in this post. I would like it if someone clarified this. [another chapo]

Good, I like having them around. They give the fediverse the spice of life that prevents it from becoming just another necrotic pool of internet backwash filled with stale memes and pandering comments like what late Digg became and what reddit has been turning into. :chad: [17 downvotes by :soycry:]

My view is that this federation of theirs is just sketchy. Their announcement post reads as some barely veiled call to propagandize the Fediverse, and the instance itself seems almost proud in a way to have developed their particular methods in their isolation. Though from what I've seen, those methods are mostly just whataboutism and “just asking questions”, not anything particularly novel.

If there was much content or interaction from them that was just neutral, it'd be much easier to swallow, but everything they post or comment always seems be a dog whistle at minimum. And maybe I'm just not noticing all the users not doing that, but the ones I do notice are all over.

All in all, I'd be more in favor of defederation. I've seen enough of this from the right already to have an idea of where this is going, and barring a larger effort from the instance to change, would rather it just got nipped in the bud.

I initially started using when joing the fediverse. Once you federated hexbear I left for within days, not really because I wanted to but because I felt I had to. I was being harassed because of a single comment that received over 100 responses. None of them were constructive arguments or legitimate discussion, all just trolling and insults. is not usable anymore as a result of federating hexbear. I'm sure I'm far from the only user who feels that way. If you want to continue to be a viable instance there is no other choice.

Think about this way: f they were acting this way while promoting fascism, you wouldn't even have a discussion post, you would just defederate. Because they claim to be communist and left-wing (though their actually still promoting fascism) you feel the need to deliberate. Just do the thing that you already know has to be done. Stop dragging it out. [:marseysoycrytremble:]

Of course that comment was from a user

Ok fascist [-17]

Keeping hexbear is like keeping Nazis on the site.

If you go for freedom of speech and the ideals of fediverse then fine. I'm not against that ideal.

But don't treat these people different to any other extremist just because they are left and not right.

WORDS WORDS WORDS from a lemmyworld user talking about muh positivity :marseywholesome:

Banning state propaganda is great, but why limit that ban to Kremlin propaganda? US propaganda is just as, if not more, prevelent and toxic. The narrative surrounding the destruction of the Nord Stream is a good example:

American corporate media and government officials were calling for its destruction and outright threatening to blow it up for months prior to the actual attack. Immediately after its destruction, the corporate news outlets and government officials that had been calling for that very action acted as though they had never done so and presented a unified front that blamed Russia for the attack. Doing some critical thinking and realizing that Russia had neither the opportunity nor the motive to blow up their own pipeline is not Kremlin propaganda. Continuing that critical thinking and realizing that the US had both motive and opportunity, and was a likely culprit because they had repeatedly threatened to blow up the pipeline is not Kremlin propaganda. Shutting down all discussion critical of the US by dismissing it as Russian bots is US propaganda.

Another hexbear user doing a whataboutism

I've seen more posts complaining about Hexbear than actual objectionable things they've done. Maybe that's a sign of effective moderation, but in general I agree that defederation should always be a very last resort, and it doesn't feel like we're even close.

Also, with the ability for users to block instances coming soon, I think everyone will be happy then. At least, users anyway, it will still be down to the admin team to determine if the moderation workload is excessive and act accordingly - but that decision is and should be up to you.

Another :marseylongpost2: from a hexbear chapo

One thing to also take into consideration is the very pro Chinese government slant by many of the users. Many there claim China is a democracy. While I have not seen Uyghur genocide denial there, I also don't peruse hexbear threads very often. That is something that needs to be looked out for.

As for federation with them? Their stuff is annoying af but blocking their communities has removed most of their shit from my feed.

Edit: well some of them were nice enough to bring the genocide denial to me. Thanks for that. I didn't really feel like seeking it out. :marseyxi:

Actually had my first conversation with hexbear the other day. Accidentally came from /all and didn't realize what kind of sub I was in. While I don't really have their same beliefs, it was interesting to see things from another point of view. Had a swing of upvotes and downvotes as to be expected.

I posted a comment in the_dunk_tank without noticing where I was. While many people were heated over what I said, it was a misunderstanding due to a lack of specificity and ignorance on my part. After I clarified what I was intending to say, discussion ensued and it was ended on good terms.

The vast majority of users I interact with from hexbear are thoughtful, insightful, kind and genuine individuals that care deeply about humanity and moving forward. The hate that they have is for fascism and actual fascists.

To defederate hexbear would be a disservice to the idea of federated social media.

Stating that my people (and other Baltic nations) are subhuman

As a member of Hexbear for 3+ years I just want to say that this isn't acceptable over here and would land people with a very serious reprimand or a permaban if they don't admit to being in the wrong for this. The use of “subhuman” in particular is fascist behaviour and I'd assume it is wreckers rather than longstanding members, it's not language that socialists are fond of.

The only other thing I will say is that I genuinely appreciate that you're building this community with your userbase and having these conversations, it's the correct way to create a unique community culture and have people care about the space.

PSA: that's former Reddit commie powerjanny /u/lenins2ndcat who was banned from lemmyworld for hurting their jannies feefees and made this comment sneeding about me:

anpther fricking WORDS WORDS post with 120+ replies

Props for staying calm throughout all this. The initial rush of excitement seems to be pretty much over, which means things ought to mellow down on the timeline. I'm sure Hexbear can coexist with the fediverse the same way /r/cth coexisted with reddit, which is to say by showing up and ballin' for Marx and pushing the boundaries of acceptability. Except this time there are no ad revenue sources to placate by banning anything outside of the Overton window.

I can totally understand your strong feelings towards the USSR. I understand you've conceded that the hammer and sickle isn't strictly soviet symbology and can represent other things, but I would like to ask you whether or not you would think of the “stars and stripes” or the “union jack” (or really most western iconography) as hate speech given the centuries of pillaging, r*pe, genocide and dehumanization that they represent in many parts of the world.

Another longpost I'm not copying :marseywords:


Don't defederate from hexbear, they aren't that bad.

They aren't great, it's like a bunch of very confident college kids refusing to listen to anything that challenges their beliefs. There is a high percentage of trolls, but it's the Internet. I've seen some shockingly bad takes, like tiananmen square had no casualties, or as highlighted by this thread, criticism of the USSRs well documented atrocities is tantamount to Holocaust denial.

Just ignore them and move on.

Stating that my people (and other Baltic nations) are subhuman

Oh, that's includes a now deleted comment of mine. Yes, i admit i got a bit overboard here. I wanted only to highlight a certain political tendency in the region. rather than make a blanket statement about any nationalities and ethnicities. It really came out wrong. And while i don't really care whatever this instance defederates or not, here i must apologize since i was clearly in the wrong. I should only dunk on people for what they do, not what they are.

The lack of a sense of place by Hexbears by absolutely flooding this comment thread is the full and sole reason for me to fully support defederation. is our server, our rules, made by people on the server. The fact that they feel the need to comment and respond on everything says enough about them.

And no, you're not being attacked so that you have the right to defend yourself. Federation is not a right.

:marseylongpost: from an admin

Unrelated, but honest doubt… because I know nothing about Hexbear and I'm very confused trying to tie the “for the lulz”/trolling behaviour, communism/leftism and Kremlin propaganda together. The modus operandi seems that of bigots/racists/fascists all over the internet which might relate to Kremlin propaganda, but I'm having a hard time figuring out where communism/leftism fits in here. Is Hexbear a former left-wing “forum” now taken over by fascist trolls? If someone might care to explain I'd appreciate it.

Glad to read this.

Appreciate your approach.

Personally I've seen a lot of hexbear commenters out for blood, seemingly very ready to argue and name-call. Also I've seen many comments and some posts suggesting is for racists.

I assume that is just the “wreckers” someone mentioned.

I don't believe this instance is racist and I don't believe hexbear is all propagandists and lunatics, but I must admit I've been readily blocking subs of theirs. They honestly just seem quite angry with the world and the west. Sometimes for good reason, but sometimes so reflexively it comes off as Russian or Chinese bot posting.

I could be wrong with my personal reflex, but that engagement isn't why I'm on Lemmy at all.

I've been in touch with you personally regarding this, and the evidence of mass brigading, trolling, and their toxicity is abound. just check the modlog, especially for political subs where they especially love to brigade and bully.

the only change they will make is the volume and frequency of their toxic bullying and trolling. keep his instance safe and defederate.

Bartender explains why he swiftly kicks out Nazis even if they're ‘not bothering anyone'

I would say defederate as I see little value in their content. Let those who seek out extreme content go to that server for it. It is just Nazism wearing a different hat.

Wait? Hexbear is leftist? I'm super liberal and my impression of that instance was another pack of Trumpers. Maybe they were brigaded but it's been nothing hit a cesspool. I've been trying to use Sync settings to block @hexbear. I vote defederate. :marseygigaretard:

Defederating hexbear seems like a weak move.

I do think you're gonna have to develop a very explicit and clear line for what constitutes kremlin propaganda though. That or just go full “this is an anti-Russia instance and that includes all current and former states”. [-17]

I demand a Quote & Link to the Subhuman claim you try to collectiv guilt us over …

( its not the epicempenada quote/ copypaste isnt it ? ) [-1]

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  • hop : shit is getting so gay neighbor fjfjfjjf foh
EFFORTPOST The 5 Worst Vice-Presidential picks in US History

Hiii besties~ :marseywave2:

I'm the guy that made the effortposts on the 2024 race and debates! With talk about Biden dropping out, Vice-President talk has skyrocketed. How will Harris do? Who will she pick as her running mate? Wouldn't it be hilarious if Hillary Clinton lived to watch someone else be the first female president? :marseyrope:

With all this Vice-President talk around, I've been thinking about vice-presidents. The office, described by first Vice-President John Adams as "the most insignificant office ever devised", only really matters in helping people get elected. Be it a moderate to offset a radical :marseyyawn:, a figure from another region:marseybountyhunter: , or just a guy with a lot of money who can pay for campaign stuff:marseygangster:, actually being the Vice-President is a distant second to being involved in the campaign. So what about the radicals that derailed the ticket? The unbalanced region tickets? Or just the brokies? Here's a ranking of the shittest running mates in history!


1. Vice-Presidents were originally whoever came second in the election, before the two party system established itself. 1804 would be the first time Presidents and Vice-Presidents were elected on the same ticket, so I'm counting Vice-Presidents that ran from 1804 to 2024.

2. In the words of our current Vice-President, "you think you fell out of a coconut tree? You exist in the context of all in which you live and what came before you." Source. Before roughly 1908, Presidents never "ran" for office. They "stood" for office, and their supporters campaigned for them. To actually campaign yourself, as Whig Winfield Scott in 1852 or Democrat William Jennings Bryan in 1896 and 1900 did, was unseemly at best and outright embarrassing at worst. So you have to cut them some slack back in the olden days.

5. Tim Kaine (Democrat) 2016

The Hillary Campaign is studied today as one of the worst campaigns of all time :marseyhillary:. Complacency was it's biggest sin, as she campaigned in safe states to win more votes rather than bother to defend the Blue Wall - which would ultimately cost her the election. Nothing showcases this complacency more then her selection of Tim Kaine, Virginian Senator, as her running mate. Tim added absolutely nothing to ticket.

On paper, this shouldn't be the case. On most Democrat tickets, the Southern Moderate is a perfect Democrat counter balance to the Urban Liberal. But Hillary was already a Southern Moderate! She had basically selected herself! That wouldn't in itself have been so bad, but Hillary wasn't universally popular. She had a long, drawn out primary battle against the far-left Bernie Sanders. Can you imagine, if Bernie :marseysanders: had won in 2016, if he picked a white man who was far left instead of literally any woman? There would be bloody murder. Rather than show any kind of basic respect to her opponent, she picked herself again, except less well-known.

Kaine is only number 5 because there was nothing wrong with him. He didn't actually do anything wrong - he was just the wrong man at the wrong time. The only reason he was chosen was because of Hillary's backroom dealing - in any sane convention, she would have picked a more committed liberal to keep Berniebros happy. The arrogance, to assume that the leftists would fall back in line and vote for her anyway, is what would doom her efforts against the deeply unpopular political outsider. Kaine isn't the cause of the loss, merely the symptom.

4. Francis Preston Blair Jr. (Democrat) 1868

From a modern Southern Democrat to a old school Southern Democrat. The first presidential election since the end of the American civil war, the Democrats were left reeling. A majority of Democrats had supported the Confederacy :marseysouthernbelle1:, and with the South under military rule, this left the Democrats crippled as they prepared to run against the victorious in war Republicans. They would nominate Horatio Seymour of New York, a Northern Urban Democrat that had stayed loyalish during the Civil War.

Similar to Kaine, Blair is on paper an amazing choice. How can you call the Democrats traitors when Blair, a Union General, was on the ticket? Ehh, ehhh? Certainly, he seemed amazing. He flew through the nomination, and campaigned on Seymour's behalf (as was the style out of time).

They ran an insanely racist campaign - the official slogan was "This is a White Man's country, let the White Man rule." Seymour would win the West by threatening that Republican's dedication to equality meant they would grant civil rights to the chinese, he defended the Klu Klux Klan as just a social club, and fiercely opposed the idea of black people voting. :marseykkk:

Francis Blair still managed to be too racist.

Blair ranted furiously that beloved war hero Ulysses Grant would transform the nation into a military dictatorship because he was obsessed with black people. The republicans were, in his eyes, a "semi-barbarous race of blacks who are worshipers of fetishes and poligamists" that wanted to "subject the white women to their unbridled lust." That's right, Chuds have always been obsessed with :marseyblackcock:. Seymour would be forced to break tradition and campaign to try and mitigate what Blair was spouting - he didn't think all black people were male feminists or evil, he just thought they were inferior!

The ticket was destroyed, for a lot of reasons, Blair being cited as a key reason. He made white supremacy a dirty word - for shame! What makes Blair so bad is that he managed to turn one of the ticket's strengths, being racist, into a weakness. Seymour had tapped into something very powerful, and he knew it. He represented a party of literal actual traitors, but still pulled off 47% of the popular vote. Could they have won? With so many Southern states under reconstruction, no. But they could have done far better - Blair disgraced this key strength.

3. Curtis LeMay (American Independence) 1968

A hundred years on from the days of "White Man's Country" and it had been thanks to Texas Democrat Lyndon Johnson the Civil Rights Act of 1964 signed :blacklivesmatter:. The Democrats began the shift, very firmly, to the Urban North, while the Republicans continued their final shift to the Rural South. During this wacky period, the "Dixiecrats" found themselves adrift. Some, like William Fulbright of Arkansas, just complained while being forced to stick with the party. Others, like Strom Thurmond, joined the Republican party. But as far as Alabama Governor George Wallace was concerned, there was no difference between the parties.

George Wallace ran third party with the goal of winning enough states to prevent Humphrey or Nixon from getting 270 Electoral Votes, to force the election to the House and work with Nixon to repeal the Civil Rights Act. To do this, Wallace collected a series of single issue voters - he wanted to escalate the Vietnam war, supported worker's unions (like Humphrey) while opposing welfare (like Nixon), and was of course a massive :marseyracist:

His running mate, Curtis "Bombs Away" LeMay, was a pretty cunning choice. LeMay, a self-declared war criminal, didn't have a record of racism but was utterly blood thirsty enough to appeal right wing nutjobs while legitimising the ticket as more than a racist riot, at least a little. So why was he bad?

Well, during the press conference announcing LeMay being on ticket, LeMay talked about how much he loved nuclear weapons, musing that America had a phobia of Nuclear Weapons. George Wallace jumps in to say that LeMay hadn't promised to use nukes, he just discussed them. LeMay would then say he could see himself nuking Vietnam. Seriously, just minutes after Wallace jumped in. It was like a fricking sitcom. :marseymacarthur:

The response to this press conference was immediate. George Wallace went from polling 20% down to fricking 14% - a position Wallace would never recover from, winning an admittedly still impressive 13.5% of the popular vote, and narrowly failing in his goal of a deadlock. The lesson from LeMay is pretty esoteric but I think we can perhaps agree that talking about how cool nukes are generally backfires because the American people are cowards.

2. Geraldine Ferraro (Democrat) 1984

Walter Mondale had an uphill battle. Firstly, he was running against Ronald Reagan :marseystars:, the economy was booming :marseystocksup: and there was generally peace in the world :marseywhiteflag:. So he decided to think out of the box - he picked a woman with Jewish heritage, the first ever woman or ethnic Jew on a presidential ticket. It was a pretty good idea to supercharge women voters - shame it just flopped massively. 20% of women thought she was good for ticket, so she was already a pretty awful choice.

She did manage to turn some heads however, as the press investigated her scumbag husband! Tony Zaccaro, her husband, had ties to the mafia, the porn industry and cheated on his taxes, being investigated during the campaign by the police and ultimately pleading guilty to fraud in 1985 :marseymugshot:. These connections turned a failed gambit into an outright detriment, solidly slotting Ferraro as one of the worst candidates of all time.

Not everything is complicated!

Honourable mention

Not Sarah Palin. I'm a Sarah Palin shooter. She was a fricking r-slur :marseygigaretard: make no mistake - but unlike Ferraro, she successfully supercharged female voters (until the fact she was an r-slur became common knowledge) and helped convince conservatives that didn't trust the moderate Komrade McShame that he would be suitably conservative. The polling tells the story - McCain went from 3% behind Obama to 5% ahead of him. Palin should have been kept on a tighter leash, but Bush was in the White House when the Recession hit. McCain was going to be slaughtered no matter what.

Dan Qauyle (Republican) 1988 and 1992

Herbert Walker Bush was in the same boat as McCain. Conservatives didn't entirely trust Bush, with him facing primary challenges from the far right in both his elections. There was some reason to mistrust him, as he had ran as a moderate against Reagan in 1980 and had a generally moderate voting record when he was a representative, nearly being forced out when he voted for a civil rights bill. Qauyle :marseygigaretard: was a solid conservative culture warrior that helped Bush keep this base loyal - he was also a fricking idiot that couldn't even spell potato. While not awful, he created a lot of noise when there were a lot of better options that would have kept the base loyal. Like the 1996 ticket, Bob Dole and Jack Kemp, who were both free at the time!

Qauylee committede noe grande crimee, bute hee createdede ane imagee ofe uttere stupiditye thate cloudede thee campaigne ine ae mannere thate wase utterlye avoidablee.

Fricking POTATOE!

The worst running mate of all time, Thomas Eagleton (Democrat) 1972

How can you be worse than arrogance :marseyreapcrying:, turning strength to weakness, blab about nuclear weapons :marseynukegoggles: or having ties to criminal pornographers? You can be such an awful running mate, you get fired from the ticket during the campaign! While Blair was de-facto fired, sent to rant about how Darwin proves White Supremacy in Missouri, no other running mate was such an active detriment they had to leave.

When McGovern won the primary as 1970s Bernie Sanders, except more radical in some areas, he found himself deeply unpopular. Thomas Eagleton was his 5th choice for running mate, after Ted Kennedy, Hubert Humphrey, Edmund Muskie and Abe Ribicoff turned him down. He spoke to Thomas Eagleton and asked him if he had any skeletons in closet, and Eagleton said no. Being a Catholic moderate, it was hoped that he could trigger some nostalgia for Kennedy while being blandly inoffensive. That was what they wanted - him to no negatively impact the campaign. He would fail this - the Nixon campaign researched him, and found out he had a skeleton in the closest.

Eagleton had clinical depression, and had actually spent time in a mental asylum getting electro-shock therapy to treat it. This was immediately leaked to the press, and McGovern faced pressure to drop Eagleton. He declared that he stood behind Eagleton 1000% - then dropped him a few days later.

McGovern not doing a basic background check, insisting he was going to stand by Eagleton then dropping him - the whole affair was utterly idiotic. While McGovern ran a generally incompetent campaign, the shadow of the fact he had to fire his own planned vice-president loomed over everything he said and did. His selection was so grossly incompetent, did so much damage to the ticket, there is literally no point of comparison. Kaine didn't make any mistakes. Blair and LeMay were war heroes. Even Ferraro was a gamble that Mondale needed to make, just with a different woman. Eagleton was a moderate from a state McGovern couldn't have won to begin with. A bad idea executed horendously, there can be no comparison for sheer r-sluration.

Thanks for reading Rdrama! Can you think of any running mates worse? No you can't so keep yourself safe for even thinking of disagreeing with me. Top 5 best running mates coming when I can be assed! :marsey:

Reported by:
  • Assy-McGee : Joan is the president of the Pen-15 club
  • TheOverSeether : BORING
  • DickButtKiss : that ink is full o radioactive material. use geiger counter on it morons. ironically its a result of
  • Wuzizname : Marsey still writes with pen & paper :marseynotes:


Back in the day people used to write words on pieces of paper. I know this is alien to most of you zoomers that think emojis evoke anything other than cringe and derision BUT we didn't always used to have iPhones and your penance for making that okay is dying from climate change. WITH THAT IN MIND - The fountain pen community is in absolute fricking shambles and it's so fun.

SO - Fountain pens are fancy white people pens that you fill with ink and shit and you use them to write fancy stupid shit on pieces of paper for gender reveal parties and funerals. For literal decades of years the German company LAMY has been the top c*nt of this world - they sell the fanciest pens and they sell the BEST ink that everyone uses and they essentially set the industry standard for all of the people that write shit on pieces of paper.

In 2016 LAMY released a limited edition pen and a limited edition ink to go with it - this ink was Dark Lilac. This ink was like the bees fricking knees. Impossible to recreate - had a golden sheen - did black-to-blue-to-purple like WOAH - this ink was impossible to ignore and no ink company has been able to replicate it since. This ink is basically the best thing to ever fricking happen to anyone ever.


LAMY has never re-released this shade of ink despite it's obvious cult status and most think it's because they literally can't - this was a flash in the pan accident at the factory and that's why no other ink company has been able to replicate that shit. WITH THIS IN MIND - mere days ago the LAMY company advertised two new limited edition pens and two new limited edition inks Safari Pink and VIOLET BLACKBERRY.


The fountain pen r-slurs were having the world's largest tard rage over whether or not this VIOLET BLACKBERRY was going to be DARK LILAC AND OMG FUFCKING SLKDFJLSKDFJLKSDJFkjk

1500 tard rages later LAMY released a statement saying that Violet Blackberry was an homage to Dark Lilac BUT keep in mind they did not say that it was Dark Lilac but NO ONE cared because they said the words "Dark Lilac" and everyone went absolutely fricking feral.

:redlight: :bluelight: :redlight: TRAGEDY :redlight: :bluelight: :redlight:

European and Chinese re-sellers bought up ALLLLLL of the Violet Blackberry ink and started posting them online AS Dark Lilac (Temu grade shenanigans basically) because LAMY said it was an homage and no one knows what the frick the word "homage" means anymore because you all only speak in fricking emojis BUT bottles of legit Dark Lilac previously sold for literally thousands of dollars because it was a legit ONE TIME thing that cannot be replicated by any company ever because it's probably full of lead and cancer but when these bottles of Violet Blackberry started filling the market as a cheap version of Dark Lilac people went INSANE and bought them all because DARK LILAC OMG.

:redlight: :bluelight: :redlight: TRAGEDY AGAIN :redlight: :bluelight: :redlight:

SO everyone bought the fake Dark Liles and then once their little prezzies came in the mail they realized that THIS SHIT AINT DARK LILAC OMG - quelle fricking surprise.

This new "Dark Lilac" didn't even fricking work half the time and was awful but those c*nts at LAMY never said it was Dark Lilac so everyone that bought all the fake shit overseas for wayyyyyy above market price for regular ink were just r-slurs that couldn't read, right? WRONG

LAMY chose the path of evil and released a public statement that Violet Blackberry was "in fact" also Dark Lilac and that you should totes keep buying all of those shitty bottles of Violet Blackberry under the assumption that they were Dark Lilac from shitty Chinese resellers.

Why they did this is beyond me but it didn't hold water for more than 8 hours as anyone that had used the new ink KNEW it was totally nothing like the old ink. Twitter tards called bullshit and got LAMY to make a statement and the statement was that they were "sorry about making the ink release with the name Dark Lilac" EVEN THO THEY DIDNT EVEN ORIGINALLY DO THAT. Total bullshit to cover up their re-seller shenanigans.

SO no one bought any of their bullshit and twitter was INSANE about this shit. The backlash was so severe for two days and then LAMY as a company decided to SELL THEMSELVES TO MITSUBISHI - this happened literally hours ago. Totally insane. Everyone was laid off and LAMY as a company like literally DOES NOT EXIST anymore other than as an online retailer-front.

All because of a stupid fricking fountain pen ink.

EFFORTPOST The state of the debates!

Hey besties!!! :marseyshy4:

I'm the bloke that wrote this.

In the comments, I talk to a guy about the debates, and make a prediction. :marseyfortuneteller: I wonder what I say? :marseyhmm:

I think the debates will be a Biden win, honestly. And going by the way rightoid media personalities have been pushing "Biden will be on drugs during the debates!!!", they think so as well. But we could all be wrong, Biden is really old after all.


Biden's performance can be summed as

The kindest thing I've seen about his performance is "Well, the debates don't matter." Is that the case Well, no. For this write-up, I'll compare the first debates, the second debates and sixth debates, which were considered to have the biggest impacts on the races, and how they relate to Biden's performance.

Tl;Dr :itsjoever:

1960 US Debates

Richard Nixon (:marseymugshot:) v John Kennedy (:marseyhibernian:)

These debates are famous. The story is that Nixon looked like shit, Kennedy looked great, and so Kennedy won. This is only half of the story - America has elected uggos to office before. Politics is basically Hollywood for ugly people - were the American people really so shallow they voted for the Hotty:marseygigachad: over the Notty:marseymoidmoment:?

The campaign was built on a simple question - experience, with Vice-President Nixon, or change, with Senator Kennedy. Kennedy's campaign had been that Eisenhower as President had made the country stagnate. As President, he was going to advance civil rights, expand social security with medicare and get far more bombs so they could bomb the shit out of the Commies :marseymacarthur:. Nixon promised to not screw up the good thing they had with Eisenhower, who was the most popular President until 9/11 era Bush :marseybush:.

Nixon looking like a corpse on TV while Kennedy was tanned and exuberant gave a lot of credit to the idea that America needed change, that Nixon was stagnation. With how insanely close 1960 really was, it's obvious this screw up was why Nixon lost the election. If he was able to look more secure on TV, then he would win. Instead, he became the visual argument for why Kennedy was right.

1976 US Debates

Gerald Ford (:marseygigaretard:) v Jimmy Carter (:marseynut:) ((the joke is that Jimmy is a peanut farmer))

The battle of the nice guys is known for having the best ever losing campaign, when Ford managed to lose by just one state only 2 years after pardoning Nixon :marseyrobber:. If Ohio was 1% different, Ford would have been a two term president.

After roughly 15 years of lies from the Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon administration, America wanted change. Jimmy Carter, an outsider disliked by the mainstream Democrats, was able to ride the wave of change by positioning himself as a humble Bapist that just loved God and America and would never tell a lie :marseycountry:. By contrast, Ford had been in Congress for about 20 years, was popular inside the party, and managed to barely beat Republican outsider Ronald Reagan :marseybiden:. He was viewed at best as an r-slur that pardoned a criminal, at worst as another criminal.

Ford managed to overcome this however. He accepted the facts of the race, America loves newcomer Jimmy Carter, and adapted to them. Carter is an outsider - but can he handle the economy? The Cold War? Coupled with Ford just being a really nice, friendly guy, and he managed to flip the race on it's head by accepting the facts and changing the perspective on them.

The debates would end this, when he said repeatedly that the Soviet Union doesn't dominate East Europe.

It's clear that he's trying the same stuff as "experienced vs outsider" stuff by flipping the narrative and making Jimmy Carter sound weak on defence. But he just sounds like a fricking idiot, and ruined his own prior messaging. He would go on to admit his mistake, but it wasn't enough. Carter would narrowly win, despite his own countless mistakes.

1988 US Debates

George Bush (:marseynerd2:) v Michael Dukakis (:marseytank:)

When the campaign started, Bush was going to lose. Governor Dukakis was a popular moderate liberal with one of the best states in the Union :marseystocksup: while Vice-President Bush was the dweeb tied to Reagan's various criminal scandals, like Iran-Contra :marseystocksdown:. Bush was able to close the gap with one of the most brutally effective negative campaigns of all time, built on two key issues - Dukakis is soft on crime (America under Reagan had seen crime raise all over the nation, but lowest in Massachusetts) and Dukakis is soft on defence (Iran-Contra lol). If you've ever seen the Simpsons episode where Sideshow Bob runs for Mayor, it's genuinely barely a parody.

Dukakis misread the situation, and chose not to respond. Rather then make him look like the bigger man, he just made it seem like Bush was correct. Come the debate, and there's only one moment people are talking about:

:marseyblack2: : Governor Dukakis, if Kitty Dukakis were r*ped and murdered, would you favour an irrevocable death penalty for the killer?

:marseyclueless: : No I don't Bernard, and I think you know I've opposed the death penalty nearly all of my life. I don't believe it works as deterrent...

This really happened btw


The question was clearly, obviously inappropriate. And rather then say "Uh Mr. Shaw I'm really angry at what you're saying about my wife, there are better ways to discuss the issues" or whatever, he treated the question like it was fair and reasonable. If he wasn't gonna kick up a fuss, why should the public? So they treated the question like it was fair, and Dukakis' utter flop answer ("No I love murdering male feminists :marsey:") haunted him. There were other issues, but to the public he was the "soft on crime guy." Come the election, Bush wins in the last 400+ EV landslide.


Did you know John Kerry is widely considered to have beaten George Bush in the debates? Or that Romney beat Obama in 2012? In 1984, during the first debates, Reagan's performance against Mondale is honestly comparable to Biden's performance last night. The idea that the debates don't matter does have some truth to it. The truth is, debates are just one part of the campaign. Everything, from the posters to the speeches to the badges, go into making a campaign. Debates aren't one massive part of it - they're just another cog in the electioneering machine. If a debate goes poorly, like in 2004, that doesn't matter. Bush wasn't running on being an egghead, he was running on being the commander, yee-haw! :marseycowboy: Reagan wasn't running on being the intellectual with the perfect facts and figures, he was running on keeping the government out of your life. The fact they preformed poorly doesn't matter, since the message wasn't really affected.

2024 Debates

Trump (:marseyreich:) v Biden (:marseybabushka:)

If you'll recall my write-up, I discussed the biggest issues these uniquely unpopular figures face. Trump is a loudmouth butthole and criminal, Biden is a senile r-slur. These debates couldn't have gone much better for Trump. He made some gaffes - some of his question dodging was kinda pathetic, outright bragging about repealing Roe V Wade :marseybabykiller: will be used in some ads. But the formats of the debate were built, by the Biden team!!!!!, to cover Trump's worst traits. The 2016 and 2020 debates were both massive flops for Trump, since his obnoxious personality was on full display. With the mics being muted and the answer time limits being adhered to strictly, Trump couldn't be so annoying. Biden, by contrast, could barely fricking speak. He sounded like he was going to die in a week and could barely speak straight. 66% of undecided voters think Biden will die before 2028 (which yeah probably). When Biden can barely fricking speak, everything the public hates about Biden is made clearer than crystal.

Already, Trump is 2% ahead - basically undoing the conviction. 2% may not sound like much, but what can Biden do to fix it? Trump's convictions are hardly a secret. He's not really hidden his affairs. The only thing I can see stopping a Trump victory is if Trump is outright jailed, which polls have reported roughly halving his support base. With how obnoxious he acted in court, and were he a normal defendant, I would say that's likely. However, the Judge has made comments about not wanting to divide the country - this to me implies a fine, rather than behind bars.

Of course, anything can happen. There's always a good old fashioned October Surprise. But things are looking great for Dementia Daddy (R) - at this rate, he might even win the popular vote.

EFFORTPOST David Reimer - The Circumcision That Changed Everything

Circumcision is a controversial issue. For some, it is a form of hygiene that protects men against STDs. For others, it is a form of mutilation that decreases sexual sensitivity. If only we let adults decide for themselves, it would be less of an issue. Today I wish to discuss David Reimer and how a botched circumcision changed his life forever.

The Botched Circumcision

Janet and Ron Reimer were two Mennonites who married in December 1964. Ron was a quiet yet industrious man who supported his family through his job as a coffee truck operator. On 22 August 1965, Janet gave birth to a set of identical twins. She was eighteen at the time, while Ron was nineteen.

The boys were named Bruce and Brian, and they were so identical that it was impossible to tell them apart, even for the parents. Bruce, the older of the two, had been born underweight and had to stay in the hospital for a little while, but when he was discharged, both children took to life with energy and vigor. All seemed to be going well until Janet noticed that the two boys were always in distress after urinating. She took the boys to a pediatrician who declared that the boys had phimosis. The cure? Circumcision. The operation would be administered at St Boniface Hospital by Dr Jean-Marie Huot.

Neither parent was worried about the operation. Circumcision seemed like a routine, minor operation that would heal quickly and be forgotten by the boys. Oh how wrong they were. Bruce was the first twin to be operated. He was put to sleep by anaesthesiologist Dr Max Cham. To remove the foreskin, a knife would not be used. Instead, a cautery machine would be made use of. What happened next is too harrowing to write, so I'll just copy and paste from his biography, As Nature Made Him.

It was decided that Brian would not be circumcised. His phimosis cleared on its own - the procedure had been useless. Ron and Janet were called to the hospital where they described Bruce's genitals as looking like charcoal. It was obvious there was no coming back from an injury of this nature. Over the next few days, pieces of Bruce's peepee dried and crumbled away.

At the time, peepee restoration surgery was in its infancy, so there were limited options for the Reimers. Thus, Bruce continued life without a peepee. One doctor gave the following harrowing diagnosis:

he will be unable to live a normal sexual life from the time of adolescence: that he will be unable to consummate marriage or to have normal heterosexual relations, in that he will have to recognise that he is incomplete, physically defective, and that he must live apart

Finding Help for Bruce

The Reimers were transferred to the Mayo Clinic where they recommended a prosthetic phallus. However, this would be a primitive peepee requiring several surgeries throughout childhood. This was not promising to the Reimers who resigned themselves to the fact that they would have to raise a mutilated son.

A cloud of misery fell over the Reimer household. Rob had nightmares of strangling Dr Huot. Janet was stuck at home because she was afraid of hiring a babysitter who would gossip about the child's missing genitals. Overall, the Reimers' peaceful life was disrupted beyond repair.

Things would take a turn when, while watching television one evening, the Reimers saw Dr John Money. The doctor was at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore talking about the wonders of s*x reassignment surgery. The Reimers had received advice that they might want to raise Bruce as a girl, so it caught their attention. They decided to write Dr Money a letter describing what happened to Bruce. It did not take long for the Reimers to get a reply. Dr Money was very, very interested and he invited the family to Baltimore.

Dr John Money

Dr John Money was born in 1921 in New Zealand, and he moved to the USA when he was twenty-five. He achieved his Ph.D. from Harvard before going on to work at Johns Hopkins. It is this man who coined the term "gender identity", and he was deeply interested in the nature vs nurture debate surrounding gender and s*x. By the time the Reimers found him, he was a worldclass expert on the psychological effects of ambiguous genitalia and he was a pioneer of transexual surgeries.


Notes from Holly!

So what motivated Dr John Money to focus on s*x and genitalia so much? One reason has to do with his upbringing. He had a bad relationship with his strict dad, which gave him a negative view of masculinity and manhood. This led him to wonder "if the world might really be a better place for women if not only farm animals but human males also were gelded at birth."

It was also a form of rebellion against his religious upbringing and a form of devotion to the ongoing sexual revolution at the time. He championed bisexuality, open marriages, and nudism. He also promoted pedophilia, arguing that it was not necessarily damaging to children.


It was Dr. Money's belief that hermaphroditic children could be raised either male or female, and that gender was socially constructed. In other words, infants were psychosocial blank slates. Hence with surgeries, a lot of hermaphroditic children were turned into girls. The reason for this is that it was easier to make a prosthetic vagina than a fake phallus. According to Dr Money, all that was required was that the surgery take place before the child turns 2, and that the doctor and parents are unwavering in implementing the assigned gender.

The Reimers Meet Dr John Money

Janet and Ron were twenty and twenty-one years old respectively when they first met Dr Money. Thanks to his professional mannerisms and confident aura, the Reimers were taken in by him and believed everything he had to say. Using theory, diagrams, and fancy words, he explained to the Reimers why it would be best for Bruce to undergo s*x reassignment. Despite their faith in Dr Money, the Reimers were hesitant to go through with the surgery, and they told the doctor they needed some time to think about it. They were rushed forward by the doctor who claimed the procedure needed to be done as soon as possible.

Eventually, the Reimers agreed to the procedure and on Monday 3 July 1967, Bruce was castrated. The boy was turned into a girl and renamed Brenda Lee Reimer. Janet and Ron were given strict instructions not to tell Brenda of the circumstances of her birth, and to keep up the facade that she is a female in every way. The parents abided, and raised Brenda as a girl, giving her dolls and dresses.

Despite all the effort taken, there was still something remarkably masculine about Brenda. Her teachers noted that she moved, spoke, and gestured like a boy. Her twin brother also noticed that Brenda was a tomboy who preferred playing with boys' toys and male hobbies. Though she would be given dolls at Christmas and birthdays, she never wanted to play with them. Perhaps most notably, Brenda would always pee standing, a fact that weirded out her peers.

The Reimers brought their concerns to Dr Money who assured them that all was normal. There were just some girls who displayed tomboyisms, and Brenda was one of them. Furthermore, it was not unheard of for girls to insist on peeing standing.


Notes from Holly!

While Brenda was struggling psychosocially, Dr Money was representing the case as a success in his scientific papers in which Brenda was referred to as John/Joan. Dr Money argued that Brenda had adapted well to his female identity and gender reassignment. This could not be further from the truth. Regardless, the papers were used in the burgeoning feminist movement to demonstrate that gender was socially constructed.


When Brenda hit her teen years, she was given female hormones to induce female puberty. However, this did nothing to change Brenda's tomboyish behaviour.

Brenda Turns Into David

In Brenda's teen years, things began to unravel. She still needed two major s*x reassignment surgeries, but she absolutely refused to get them. Dr Money, seeing his research hang in the balance, set out to try and convince Brenda to get the surgery.


Notes from Holly!

During the visits to Dr Money's office, Dr Money would sexually assault the twins. He forced them to simulate s*x acts with each other and inspect each other's genitals. This caused the twins great distress.


Janet and Ron began having doubts about the success of the gender transition. No matter how many dresses she wore and how many dolls she was given, Brenda would just not give up her boyish nature. At school, Brenda would be teased for her boyish nature. Furthermore, she expressed no sexual desire for boys, and showed interest in women instead. Dr Money just suggested that Brenda is a lesbian.

On 14 March 1980, the Reimers spilled the beans to Brenda and explained everything that happened since that cursed circumcision. Brenda felt relief upon hearing the news, because all she ever wanted to be was a boy. The revelation that she had been born a boy made everything make sense! Immediately, Brenda decided to revert to her birth gender - male. He chose the name David for himself. He liked it because it conjured imagery of having the odds stacked against you and conquering like the Biblical David against Goliath.

He had a double mastectomy done to remove his breasts, and he no longer saw Dr Money. Instead, he developed homicidal thoughts regarding the doctor who had started the s*x reassignment process. In 1981, he underwent surgery to create a rudimentary peepee. He also received a fake scrotum. Over three years, he was hospitalized eighteen times for blockages and infections in his artificial urethra franklin.


This is the story of David Reimer and how a simple circumcision led to a lifetime of pain. There are some good parts in the ending. David married a woman named Jane Fontane and they adopted three children. After discovering Dr Money's research, David went public with his story in a bid to disprove Dr Money's theories. Unfortunately, David Reimer died from suicide on 4 May 2004. He was 38 years old.

When discussing David Reimer, many use his case to delve into trans theory. I, instead, wish to highlight the damage that a botched circumcision brought about. CIRCUMCISION BAD.

Tune in next time when I discuss Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.


Ukraine was using su27 bombing Volvchansk and planned to launch massive counteroffensive east of volvchansk. And they lost the last 3 days around 15 aircraft's

5-7 su27 (visually confirmed)

Couple of mig 29 and su 25

Some helicopters

But only su27 matters for this topic.

Since those su27 were using jdams on north Kharkiv direction. Losing those is big dead. It's also interesting that they were using a fighter as a bomber.

Reason why footages like this started suddenly appearing is that Russian got a new orlan drone that seems to have range of 600+ km more than F16 with internal fuel storage. Why I mention f16 ? It's because now without using external fuel storage f16 will be on Russian visual range so it won't be effective at bombing. Su27 internal fuel range is 6 times more than f16 and yet they still used su27 kinda close to the front line. I already mentioned in July 2023 that Russian were hard preparing for arrival of f16. Now Ukrainian f16 would be able to only drop at best 1-2 jdams doing low low missions. And who knows when Russian launch an 1000+ km Orlan drone. Problem of orlan + iskander combo is that Ukraine don't get much early warning when iskander launches compared to when Russian launches missiles from their jets.

And Ukraine planed to launch counterattacks on that direction for weeks but fab 3000 changed their plans

So Ukraine failed to get critical mass to launch a good offensive (they launched couple smaller one and even managed to regain some territory but again lost it) those loses of su27 basically now tells Ukraine has nothing to kick those 14k Russian

And they gambled hard in that direction by pulling forces from toretsk (last og front line that didn't moved since 2014)

Peepee attack

Need to combine those 2 to understand Russian location

So Kharkiv is Ukrainian peak r-slur moment of 2024

Homos literally knew what Russian were planning, they knew Russian were trying to do :marseyoctopus2: by sending a small force to Kharkiv and making khohols think they can easily defeat them and pull forces from other directions 18 brigades vs 6 Russian and then Russian defeated 1/3 of those brigades and Ukraine pulled more brigades :marseyxd: and now they lost their offensive reserve brigades :marseythumbsup:

But they coped hard in that direction and given fantastic stories that local r-slurs believed:

Homo @Cobra_Commander come here don't be shy

There was a story that Ukrainian supposedly encircled 400+ Russian soldiers in aggregate plant. At that time there was max 30 Russian soldiers at that plant, the fight in that location is small not many men from both sides yet Ukraine had to launch a cope story and excuse about letting Russian into that plant: NOOOOO WE DIDNT FRICK UP WE ENCIRCLED BAKHMUT

So that plant story is just your typical Ukrainian story where they positioning their frick up as a win and magical encirclement's.

Reported by:
EFFORTPOST Sodom and Gomorrah

If there is any tale that is notorious in the Bible, it is that of Sodom and Gomorrah. It is a tale of death, temptation, circumcision, and bussy. There are many lessons to learn from the scripture which has often been misinterpreted. It forms an integral part of Jewish lore and Christian tradition.

Abraham is Warned

When Abram turned 99 years old, the Lord appeared to him and said: "I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless. And I will make my covenant between me and you, and will make you exceedingly numerous." (Genesis 17:1-3). No more shall his name be Abram - it shall be Abraham. The Lord goes on to explain:

This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you. Throughout your generations every male among you shall be circumcised when he is eight days old, including the slave born in your house and the one bought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring. Both the slave born in your house and the one bought with your money must be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant. Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant. (Genesis 17:10-14).


Notes from Holly!

It is this verse that is the basis for infant circumcision, or brit milah, in Judaism. Circumcision is seen as a sign of the covenant between God and the Jewish people, originating from the covenant made between God and Abraham.


Following this, Sarah, who was Abraham's wife, fell pregnant with Ishmael. Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, and his son Ishmael was thirteen years old when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.

Not long after, the Lord pays Abraham a visit and declares that Sodom and Gomorrah are wicked and shall be destroyed. Abraham is worried, as he has his nephew Lot living in Sodom. Hence, he begins to bargain with God. He begins by asking if God will spare the cities if 50 righteous men are found. God agrees. He asks about 45 righteous men, then 40, then 30, then 10 and each time the Lord agrees. This shall be important later.

Abraham's intercessory has been debated among theologians. For some, it is a moment that shows Abraham's righteousness. Abraham's first concern was for any righteous people who might reside in Sodom and Gomorrah. He knew that God was just, and he believed it would be unjust for the righteous to perish along with the wicked. For others, the interaction serves as a teaching moment about God's willingness to listen to the concerns of his faithful followers and to engage in a dialogue with them. It demonstrates God's responsiveness to righteous intercession and his consideration of human appeals.

Ultimately, it doesn't make a difference. If God is omniscient, he knew there would not be 10 innocent souls in the cities, so Abraham's bargaining was futile. Sodom and Gomorrah were going to be destroyed.

Angels Visit Lot

Two angels come to Sodom in the form of man. When Lot saw the men he beckoned them to spend the night at his house. The angels say they will sleep in the square, but Lot insists so the angels follow him home where they are served unleavened bread. Before they could sleep, all the men and youths of Sodom surrounded Lot's house. They demand the following: "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, so that we may know them." (Genesis 19:5).

The men both young and old surrounded Lot's house, and it is implied that the entire population of Sodom is present. They do not care about hospitality. They do not care about consent. They only care about bussy. Lot refuses and he makes a shocking offer: "Look, I have two daughters who have not known a man; let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please; only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof." (Genesis 19:8)


Notes from Holly!

So, the topic of Lot offering up his daughters to be r*ped has been debated by theologians. It is accepted by many that the Bible is demonstrating that there are not even 10 righteous men in Sodom - even Lot is depraved. Others claim that it is a matter of cultural norms of the time which put hospitality above all else. For some, this is a feminist issue, and a demonstration of what low of a position women held in society during Biblical times - even guests had a higher position.


The men and youths refuse the offer - they want the bussy and will be satisfied by nothing else, not least of all virgin gussy. To protect themselves, the angels produce a blinding light that stops the men and youths from finding the door. The angels then revealed that they have been sent by the Lord to destroy the city and that Lot should flee with his family. Lot warns his sons-in-law but they believe Lot is speaking in jest. The angels say: "Flee for your life; do not look back or stop anywhere in the Plain; flee to the hills, or else you will be consumed." (Genesis 19: 17).

Lot and his family flee to a city named Zoar, but it is not without Lot lingering first. This implies that Lot had lived in Sodom for too long and that he had been infected by sin. The city of sin had become his home, and he had grown attached to it. Hence, the angels seize Lot and his family by the hands and rush them out of the city.

Lot's Wife Gets Salty

God got to destroying Sodom and Gomorroh in a manner that resembles the Flood of Genesis. The difference is that instead of water, the Lord sends down sulfur and fire. Sodom and Gomorrah are destroyed, but as Lot's family flees, Lot's wife looks back and she becomes a pillar of salt.

Lot and his two daughters were afraid to settle in Zoar so they stayed in the caves nearby. It is there that Lot's daughters secretly decide that they will lie with their father to preserve their lineage. So they get him drunk on wine one night and the firstborn date r*pes him. The next night the other daughter date r*pes him. Thus both became pregnant by their father. The firstborn bore a son named Moab while the younger bore a son named Ben-ammi.


Notes from Holly!

It is notable that this situation is a reversal of the previous scenario. Lot wanted to give up his daughters to sexual depravity. Instead, it is his daughters that lead Lot into sexual depravity. Lot gets a taste of his own medicine.


So why did Lot's wife turn into a pillar of salt? Some argue that it is another sign of attachment to the city of sin. She was so consumed by Sodom that she had to look back at her home, and she could not be saved. Others say it is a simple matter of disobedience - God gave an instruction, and Lot's wife disobeyed so she was punished. It should be noted that this part of the story parallels that of the tale of original sin. There is a temptation and it is a woman who is unable to resist.


The story of Sodom and Gomorrah serves as a cautionary tale against sexual debauchery and carnal sin. Those who defy God's laws are punished greatly, and it is seen that all characters have both good and bad parts to them. We also learn that God listens to prayer and can be bargained with.

Thanks for reading. Tune in next time when I discuss the case of Mackenzie Shirilla.

EFFORTPOST Saw Oppenheimer with sister last night, finally completing Barbenheimer. Review

Sister visited me midweek, for her birthday celebration later this weekend, and we wasted 3 hours watching the movie. We both deliberately avoided hype and bullshit from others, because talking about mainstream moron midwits destroying any good discussing the film even a year afterwards was filled by subhumans.

So we finally got to it and generally had a good time - i have a very good impression of the movie! And greatly enjoyed it.

However my opinions seem to diverge greatly from others including friends whom had talked about it or recomended it.

First at least 1/2 hour too long - i know i bitched about it in the Das Boot movie, making it seem I innately hate long movies, but I have watched very long movies like Good,Bad &Ugly or LOTR or Dirty Dozen,

instead to me I just despise having my time wasted by junk scenes, or cringe :marseycringe: :marseycringe: :marseycringe: or when stuff just don't serve the narrative story. I know slice-of-life genre movies or TV are popular in their own regard, and that stories dont always need to actually serve narrative, but that doesnt count when you have heavy subjectmatter shit like Oppenheimer :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed:

My opinion seems to diverge from that apparently for many peeps the film peaked in the 1st 2/3rds of the movie, and that the last 45 minutes - when Oppenheimer faces trial/public-censorship due to national secrets having leaked from the Manhattan project to the soviets.

My experience is completely INVERSED! :marseyfsjal: I really disliked the entire 1st Act - the 1st 1/3rd of the movie, but had a pretty great time for the rest of the movie, for the remainder of the last two acts involving the development of the Bomb, and subsequently Oppenheimer's trial and remorse.

My reasons: I understand the 1st act of the film was to build up Oppenheimer's character as neurodivergentally reckless and conflicted, to demonstrate his arrogance, ego and other character flaws, both as a young man, and as someone exploding with ambition, but so much shit is cringe in that act.

When oppenheimer meets important people there's so much fricking quipping James Bondesque fricking dialogue, somebody would say something to our protagonist, and he'll fricking reply in this double-meaning smartass fricking weird manner, which just brought me out of the experience, I don't know how to describe it to you dramattards?

Like fricking normal people do not communicate this way wtf :marseybeanannoyed: Like does every fricking sentence in the 1st half hour of the movie when Oppenheimer meets and rubs elbows with, be in a smarmy double-meaning matter, oh my god :marseyyikes: :marseyyikes: :marseyyikes:

Like literally when i say the movie should have been shorter, i mean1/2hour cut from this cringe 1st act is where you would literally IMPROVE the film, cuz it ADDS NOTHING :marseyrage: :marseyrage: :marseyrage:

Also, holy actual ungodly fuuck, every single scene with the Commie chick which Oppenheimer has s*x with on the screen literally :marseyschizorage: :marseyschizorage: :marseyschizorage: :wolfmarseyfacepeel: :wolfmarseyfacepeel: is like that Wojak with his entire face shotgunned away (does anyone know the wojak/marsey for the one? :marseybegging:)

Like [1] when they 1st meet and have this turbo quippy cringe dialogue where each says this super pretentious dialogue - who tf talks like that?

[2] But the worst was the nudity?! :marseybooba: :marseybooba: :marseybooba: :bigeyes: Like holy hells thank gods we didn't watch this with parents cuz we :marseyyikes: :marseyyikes: :marseyyikes: Was it REALLY fricking important for the fricking film for Oppenheimer to have his fricking "I am become death" during fricking commie-s*x OMG :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: :marseybeanannoyed: That was officially the most cringe scene I have ever scene in any movie this past year holy hells

Like if this was a 10/10, I'd immediately detract 2 points for that batshit scene alone lmoa, into an 8/10, or if it was an 8/10 movie I'd immediately detract another 2 into a 6/10 for that scene alone lmoa, and if it was a6/10 movie..... :marseyinsane: :marseyinsane: :marseyinsane: :marseyinsane:

ANYWAYS, the good stuff. The last 2/3rd of the film was pretty spectacular.

The middle Act, and the hype of building the bomb, the depiction of the quite literal mountains of resources needed to conduct the Manhattan Project, the depiction of the massive inconceivable amounts of expertise and scientific manpower needed to conduct the Atomic project was well done.

Oppenheimer's schizo management of a multitude of interlocking departments, and his navigation of strong scientific and military personalities was well presented. The build-up of the actual atomic testing, his recklessness with a lack of compatimentalization in the face of the perceived need to outmatch the Nazis in the development of the bomb and so on, whatever everybody seemed to like it.

For me I liked the 3rd act, because it was the physical manifestation of his Inner Remorse, the douchebag lawyer interrogating him in an almost comically villainous manner was forgivable for me, because it was the verbalization of his inner conflict, and expression of his remorse made manifested into reality.

I actually liked the AEC comic-book villain , who wanted to screw over Oppenheimer in petty vengeance, because the Actor Robert Junior is so charismatic, when he's not in a fricking Marvelslop :marseydisney: movie, and is gripping when he wants to be. It also drove home the complications of the past an his associations with commie and 5th columnist groups whom had been a perpetual shadow from his past, which reflected actual historic reality.

Other miner scenes, like Oppenheimer's rebufment by Truman, played by Oldman, was also very engrossing and so on, so for me and my sister, the 3rd act didn't drag at all, and was engrossing, compared to the 1st act.

The triple twist at the end, of Einstein not actually having despised Oppenheimer at his lake meeting, but his face felling at Oppenheimer's confession of having initiated a METHAPHORICAL chain of events which would lead to the destruction of mankind, and not a chemical one ,combined with us the audience realizing that Einstein's face did not indicate his dismay with Oppenheimer, but with himself as well. As well as the AEC douchebag character also having read to much into that lake meeting moment,

made it a pretty good triple twist ending for the movie.

:marseywave2: :marseywave2: :marseywave2:


Nobody goes to Kiwi Farms expecting civil, reasonable, level-headed discussion, but wingcuckery of any sort used to be largely mocked on the site. After the 2019 Christchurch mosque shootings, however, the worst chudtard vermin from /pol/ flooded into Kiwi Farms en masse, and the site today is largely indistinguishable from VNN or Ironmarch. A few !terfs remain, but they are rapidly dwindling, and the thread that you're about to see is a perfect example of why:*x-offences-or-violent-crimes.192882/

The thread on the Articles & News subforum started off with a TERF posting a link to a Telegraph article about how more than 70% of :marseytrain: inmates in the UK are s*x offenders. The thread had absolutely nothing to do with race or abortion or anything other than :!marseytrain:s, but that didn't stop it from quickly turning into a shit-flinging contest over those subjects. Here are just a few of the highlights.

User Battlefield2142EU replied to the OP with...

Women voted for this. Don't cry about :marseytrain: r*pe in women prisons.

:#chudsmugtalking: which OP TheySeeMeRowlin replied with...

Yes, women (who comprise half of the human race) are literally one monolithic hivemind who all support mentally ill men being in women's prisons. Do you neckbeard incels even realize how fricking r-slurred you sound? Have you ever met any woman, outside of college SJW circles, who supported :!marseytrain:s being in women's prisons? Not even most dyed-in-the-wool leftist women support this shit.


User JamusActimus then brought up an argument that the OP had had in another, unrelated thread regarding so-called racial IQ differences:

Nobody's gender makes them act a certain way. Their culture may encourage them to act a certain way .

It's a culture problem op?


User TheySeeMeRowlin:

Having a severe mental illness tends to make them act a certain way, being lifelong s*x offenders certainly makes them act a certain way, and having a peepee means that they don't belong in women's prisons regardless. Their ethnicity is completely irrelevant.

Try again, Stormstrag.


User JamusActimus:

Why not since you said on the other thread that everything is cultural and that ethnicity and biology plays no role in someone's behavior.

If they are culturaly women then it's fine right?

Your premise that ethnicity has no impact on behavior is proved wrong by your own statements.

-You're saying that gender makes someone act different beyond the cultural aspect.

-So ethnicity should make you act different beyond the cultural aspect because it affects hormones and behavior (some ethnicity have 50% more test than others)


User TheySeeMeRowlin:

If you think that ethnicity and biological s*x are even remotely comparable, then you are even more r-slurred than the usual Apedrew Apelin acolyte.

There are proven scientific differences between male brains and female brains. There are no proven scientific differences between brains of different ethnicities (and no, the "scientists" that I'm sure you'll cite are not even remotely credible). Not to mention, that still has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that male s*x offenders - and, more broadly, anyone with a peepee - poses a very serious danger to female inmates in female prisons.

Go back to Stormfront.


User Chicken Neck Nelly:

Aside from the shrieking morons I met in university, there are plenty of far-left r-slur women I grew up with and who I meet at the bars I frequent who will have a meltdown if anyone dares criticize the LGBTQ movement or any aspect of leftist dogma for that matter. You're the sheltered r-slur here who clearly don't get out enough. Not saying all women think this way, met many who don't, but it's pretty frickin obvious that the majority of women are leftist drones. Look at any polling statistic in any western country to see how big of a leftist block you stupid c*nts are


User Cherry Eyed Hamster:

Women voted to be r*ped by men in dresses?


User Battlefield2142EU:

Yes. Same way they voted for defunding the police yet b-word about not feeling safe walking home at night.


User Chicken Neck Nelly:

They vote for politicians who advocate for ever more increased tolerance toward these freakshows, so yes, aside from the contingent of women who totally agree with it, many do vote for it indirectly.


User FrancineCansMcGee:

Yes, they vote for Democrats.


User Dysnomia:

No. They don't. The problem is that the candidates that many women feel align with their values about health, social welfare ect... tend to be :marseytrain: pozzed. Since the repubs blew their load on abortion last election and fricked up there's literally nothing in there for women. Choose the wrong hill to die on and find out. That's why we have a senile old man as president. Not that the other choices were any better.

"Women voted for this" is a cop out shut down tactic that's getting really old. I just pat the poor dear's on their heads and move along. They know not what they say. It's ok though. I still wuv them. 🤗

I didn't vote for that either. I live in the ghetto. We have a pretty strong police presence here. The mayor I voted for wants to increase police presence. No sane person male or female wants to defund the police. Now accountability is a whole other thing. I do not want to live in a police state and they really do go too far in some cases. Police brutality does actually exist. I'm all for anything that reduces over reactions by police. We need more mental health services over all.

You get a sane anti-:marseytrain: candidate out there that doesn't drink all the far right Kool Aid and I'll vote for them.


User FrancineCansMcGee:

A JK Rowling equivalent would win a Democratic primary nowhere in America.


User Chicken Neck Nelly:

JK Rowling wants every western country full of BIPOCs and Muslims, both of whom r*pe more women than :!marseytrain:s. The only thing she isn't a complete moron on is :!marseytrain:s. So she is basically like every leftist politician currently in office except she hates :!marseytrain:s.


User The Punished Mitch:

If that's the case, why do they consistently vote incorrectly?


User Cherry Eyed Hamster:

What would be the incentive for women to vote for Republicans?

Also I'm pretty sure white women are what helped Donald Trump get elected in 2016.


User Mac Monster:

Being able to murder an unborn child or getting r*ped by a man in a dress. Doesn't sound like a particularly difficult choice.


User round robin:

Genuinely astounds me how pervasively anti-natalist rhetoric has infected and rotted the average femoid brain to the point that they will consistently vote to destroy their own cultures if they're not allowed to kill their children.


User Chicken Neck Nelly:

What is it you object to exactly? The economic stability? The decrease of violent and/or sexual crimes being perpetrated against people in the streets? So you'd rather be able to flush out a baby because you were too r-slurred to use birth control than security, both economic and from hordes of male feminist BIPOCs, hard-working Americans and :!marseytrain:s?


User The Punished Mitch:

I am aware that women are willing to suffer the mass importation of MS13-style gangbangers, sandBIPOCs and male sexual deviants in all of their spaces in exchange for unrestricted permission to kill children.

So be it.


User Cherry Eyed Hamster:

Women are less likely to be r*ped by a man in a dress than by a regular man, but I'm sure some of you think we voted for that, too. Also more women would vote Republican if the party let women have abortions if they were r*ped or their lives were potentially in danger.


User The Punished Mitch:

"We'll vote to stop being BTFO by mentally ill men in all aspects of life provided you allow us to kill children"


User Cherry Eyed Hamster:

So are you gonna deny that r*pe happens?


User The Punished Mitch:

Are you going to pretend 90-99% of abortions are anything but elective?


User Cherry Eyed Hamster:

No, but you're intentionally dodging my point. Should women have to carry a pregnancy caused by r*pe?


User Higgs Bonbon:

I don't think women should vote for those heckin republichuds, I think they should vote for literally any party that doesn't act in direct opposition to their safety and wellbeing

there's no such thing as a wasted vote


User gata:

I hate that you cute twinks just have to make things about :!marseytrain:s into a abortion or female voting or gender war discourse. No fricking wonder these freaks and their enablers can get away with disgusting acts since their enemies are busy fighting or sabotaging each other.


User The Punished Mitch:

Why do foids feel the need to obfuscate their lust and desire for unrestricted child murder?


User Cherry Eyed Hamster:

Wow. With points as compelling and thought-provoking as yours I can't fathom why more women don't vote Republican.


User Higgs Bonbon:

A better response would be "no, and the vast majority of people (conservacucks included) think so too, up to the point of exceptions for r*pe being made in states where abortion is otherwise illegal"

then she'll get mad and go express her lust for bears or someshit


User The Punished Mitch:

Im not the one getting blown the frick out by mentally ill men, pooners are welcome to try their luck in male prisons/changing rooms/pottys/sports.

"I'll stop voting to get kicked in the testicles on the daily if you allow me to avoid child support just because I don't want to pay"

"What do you mean enjoy getting kicked in the testicles if that's what you prefer?"


User Chicken Neck Nelly:

lmao yes, you do as a group vote overwhelmingly for politicians that support open borders, which brings in large amounts of men who are much more likely to r*pe, as well as vote for politicians and DAs that advocate to let BIPOCs/hard-working Americans/poos out on bail, who are far more likely to r*pe than any other demographic, solely because "bail is racist" (between the lines: BIPOCs or hard-working Americans or poos should be free from prosecution even for murders or violent r*pes because they're brown).


User macrodegenerate:

I love how this thread became about being angry at women instead of being mad at men who abuse women.

Really all the Democrats did was focus in on what women want and then used that to get into office, so they could scam them out of their culture, money and country. It's really no different from profiting off drug addicts or gooners addicted to only fans. They can't really help it, so what's the point in being mad?


User TheySeeMeRowlin:

Because a clump of cells isn't a child, you r-slurred incel neckbeard. Your side has lost every single time abortion has been put on the ballot - even in ruby-red states like Kansas and Kentucky - yet you continue to hammer this issue to a public that is completely repulsed by your position, just like you do with the Orange Jesus who is now a convicted felon and who will once again lose the presidential election in 2024, just like him and his MAGAts lost in 2018, 2020, and 2022. Reality doesn't matter to you, hence why, when Trump loses again in 2024, you will once again falsely claim that he was somehow cheated by the imaginary boogeyman "Deep State".

P.S. Jesus is a c*nt and I wipe my butt with the Bible. You are a dying breed and you know it. You will die alone and miserable and so will the "traditional Christian family values" that you claim to champion while you engage in all manner of degeneracy, just like the Catholic priests who r*pe little boys while they drink the AIDS-infected blood of Christ. The only time anyone will ever touch you is when you choke on society's peepee as you die. Now choke on it, b-word.


The post above concluded with an image that I highly doubt the admins want me to include here. It's a Mike Diana cartoon depicting a small little boy being impaled on a Satanic-looking (with devil horns) Catholic priest's enormous, ejaculating peepee, with the priest holding a chalice labeled "AIDS INFECTED BLOOD OF CHRIST" and the words "PRIESTS FRICK LITTLE BOYZ!!" at the bottom of the cartoon.

User Iron Jaguar, quoting Cherry Eyed Hamster's "more women would vote Republican if..." post:

That is hilariously untrue. - You may even believe it but it's still untrue. Women will always find some reason not to vote for orderly, stable society.


User TheySeeMeRowlin:

How is that "orderly, stable society" working out in Republican-led states, which consistently lead the country in poverty, crime, homelessness, unemployment, infant mortality, and corruption while consistently ranking last in education, healthcare, public infrastructure, and GDP?


User Abradolfus_Linclerson:

You are an idiot if you think you made an actual point with this supposed 'gotcha.'

You mean those states that were, until relatively recently, all segregated Democrat strongholds? Or the Rust Belt states whose economies were shanked by Bubba Bill 'the Male feminist' Clinton and have never recovered? States that are otherwise Red leaning except for their major shitties, most of which (such as Chiraq: or Milwaukee: or Minneapolis: or St. Louis: haven't seen a Republican in high office for nearly a CENTURY in some instances? Bringing up Dixie is not the win you think it is, nor are Red states to blame for r-slurs like you voting in soft-on-crime Commies like Chesa fricking Budin, lawless attorneys general like Alvin Bragg, or mayors like Cap'n Crack himself, Marion motherfricking Barry.

How are shitlibs like you so goddarn immune to cause and effect that you keep voting for the same shit and expect it to turn out any differently?

Also, lol at 'there's no statistical difference between populations'. Yes, yes, geographic origin is so meaningless it's impossible to distinguish an aboriginal Australian from a European, an African from an East Asian, an Inuit from an Indian (dot, not feather), and a Polynesian from someone of Middle Eastern descent. We can't tell by looking at skulls whether or not people dead a thousand years were more or less closely related to whoever is currently living in the region now. There are literally no differences between races except on the most superficial level, just like we can't tell shit about who or what a woman is versus who or what a man is. Are you seriously this fricking dense?


User TheySeeMeRowlin:

The southern states were Democrat strongholds in the past because the southern Democrats - the Dixiecrats - were far-right ultraconservatives. And guess what? Those states were equally poor then as well, if not even poorer. The more conservative any state (or country) is, the poorer it is. Every single time. What do all conservative countries - from Iran to Somalia - have in common? They're all impoverished, third-world shitholes. And, if Democrat cities are destroying these red states, then why are blue states the richest in the country by far? Every single one of them, without exception. Not to mention, West Virginia is the most Republican state in the country and also the poorest state in the country - it has no Democrat cities of any sort. But, hey, women can't have abortions there, and that's clearly more important than actually having a functioning society.

Also, when did I ever say that one couldn't distinguish because the physical features of different races? That's not at all what I said. I said that you can't distinguish someone's race by their brain, because all races have the same brains.


User FrancineCansMcGee:

It's generally working out fine because the brunt of all that is born by the urban dwelling democratic minority in those states. Try breaking it all down on the county rather than state level and get back to us.

Also, instead of the whataboutism parade you could just take a swing at explaining why women in democratic primaries still vote for the transgender agenda when THERE IS NOBODY TO WHATABOUTABOUT.


User TheySeeMeRowlin:

The most Republican counties in those states are by far the poorest ones (especially compared to the blue cities, which are always far wealthier). Also, West Virginia has no Democratic counties at all and it is the poorest state in the country along with being the most Republican state in the country.

For the record, I'm not even a Democrat. I'm an independent. But, in spite of his many, many faults, I will certainly vote for Biden over the alternative. So will most people in the center, as you will soon learn.


User Iron Jaguar:

Those States are undoing decades of Democrat damage and working towards rebuilding a functioning society.

Also, the crime, poverty, illiteracy, healthcare and infrastructure issues can be summed up as "BIPOCs and Hard-working Americans", who vote Democrat en bloc. Let's not pretend you don't know that.


User Seventh Star:

Wow, that's actually pretty informative, I didn't know the exact amount of :marseytrain2:s convicted for such heinous crimes. I hope the dumb BIPOCs at A&N aren't talking about Democrat/Republican bullshit no one asked for in a news article about British prison statistics.


User Otis Mallebrok, quoting Seventh Star's "I hope the dumb BIPOCs at A&N..." post:

Nah, "le women bad" is just a pavlovian reaction for many of the compulsive wankers on eternal love-quests 😀


User FrancineCansMcGee:

poverty, crime, homelessness, unemployment, infant mortality, corruption, education, healthcare, public infrastructure, and GDP?

Democratic primaries allow women to choose to oppose the transgender agenda without supporting Republicans. This does not occur, instead the results of these elections support the transgender agenda and nominate exclusively pro-trans candidates. The buck will not be passed to Republicans for that no matter how much you bite and claw to change the subject to anything else.


User Sicko Hunter, quoting Battlefield2142EU's "Women voted for this" post:

Posts like these are literally just "I hate women and want to reenforce my hate by pretending they are to blame for all :marseytrain2: shit" No one voted for this. There wasn't some election held on "Should we put mentally ill men in women's prisons? Yes or no" that never happened.


User IAmNotAlpharius:

The problem I have with progressives, as someone who has had the misfortune to live in cities most of my life, is that the more progressive an area is, the shittier it becomes. The vast majority of cities are democrat run and as the democrats have moved farther to the left, the places they rule over have become shittier.

I'd also argue that progressivism is the philosophy of the wealthy and that many people support progressives because they associate it with high social status. Ultimately a lot of progressive policies will tank the cities and countries that embrace them. We are witnessing this right now with San Francisco and Portland. Mark my words. Europe will devolve into decades of ethnic and religious conflict because of their open borders. The vast majority of immigrants are only accelerating Europe's economic decline because they're taking more out of the welfare state than they'll ever contribute to it. It's not going to be just Europeans v Muslims but also English v Poles, Ukrainian v Armenian, etc. It's going to be messy.

The main problem I have with progressivism is that its core tenant is pleasure. Above all else pleasure is celebrated and impeding pleasure is seen as the greatest sin in progressive circles. This is why we will see more progressives push policies in defense of "maps." It's also why you have people supporting contradictory policies such as increased welfare and open borders. Supporting those policies makes them feel morally good even though logically a welfare state isn't possible if anyone can have a claim on it.

Much of the infrastructure and economy in small towns, not just in the south, are bad because small towns have limited political clout. If you're a native living on the reservation or a red neck in the applachians, no one gives a frick about you because your vote is meaningless because you're a minority of a minority. The politician would rather give money and resources to a middle class "refugee" from Venezuela who left because the gibs dried up before acknowledging the sad position their own people are in. To do so would be to admit that the democrats have abandoned the working class and their former constituents in the south,

The cold reality is that the American politician and the urbanites don't care if their fellow Americans have limited infrastructure or economic opportunity. They don't want to spend money on the icky small towns that were ruined by outsourcing. The democrats under Clinton and other "left" wing politicians have done more damage to labor than the republicans have done in a century. Not only did they help gut entire towns and even large cities in order to outsource production to a hostile nation, they never bothered to prop up the void the lost industries left behind. And for what? Profit and pleasure. Is it a surprise that after decades of neglect by "the party of the working man" that they've rallied around Trump?

In regards to the Democrat party specifically they loathe the poor because they're descended from the planter class that viewed itself as minor nobility. They've lost the south for a time but it doesn't change their tactics or their roots. They've always been deeply entrenched in corruption and despotism. And they'd never allow a liberal party to exist because it'd kill their power base and grift. And honestly Lincoln should've strung up the entire southern Democratic Party. It would've saved us a lot of grief down the line.

In terms of r*pe, male feminists should be shot whether they're men in skirts, gay pedos, straight men that are coomers, or female teachers abusing male students. I feel the same way about people who permanently injure others/disfigure them, murderers, and those who commit manslaughter. (Most male feminists are mentally ill men who are a threat to society and should be put down like a rabid pit bull).

I'm not against abortion if women are r*ped, the child would be crippled, or if the mother's life is in danger. However, I do think we should prevent abortions of infants that could survive outside the womb, and that abortion in that stage is no different from murder. IMO we should mirror Europe's stance on abortion with the time frame, make day after pills more common, encourage more condom use, etc. Several woman have died from late stage abortions in my state in which the child could've been surgically removed and adopted. IMO the risks to abortion isn't fully advertised. I've personally known of people who died because they tried to do abortions on their own and another who became infertile because the medical center damaged their womb in the process of the abortion. It's a nuanced issue that our two party system is ruining. The two party system should be abolished imo. They have no incentive to listen to the people and most issues aren't black or white.

In terms of :!marseytrain:s I feel that a lot of them are abused by the medical system for profit. That they know they will be dependent on them for life and will make a ton of money. I suspect a lot of medical centers also profit significantly from abortions and self termination, so they encourage those as well.


User FrancineCansMcGee:

roe wasn't overturned by referendum and thus it is impossible to blame any group of voters for roe being overturned. My brain can't comprehend any motive other than personal hatred for why anyone wouldn't agree with that.


User Sicko Hunter:

?????????? was not talking about roe v wade. Abortion is based by the way keeps poor people out of the gene pool.


User Chicken Neck Nelly:

BIPOC, leftist politicians came out and openly said for the last decade :!marseytrain:s are so oppressed and need to be able to compete against women in sports and share their locker rooms (which obviously would in turn lead to them being in women's prisons by extension), as well as to allow unlimited male feminist third world trash within our borders, and women/soyboys/non-whites went out and voted for these politicians in droves. Don't tell me progressives and leftists as a whole didn't know what sorts of policies they were voting in favor of. Absolute braindead take


User Sicko Hunter:

wtf I hate women now and think they deserve to get r*ped in prison by :!marseytrain:s


User Chicken Neck Nelly:

You do you, bro.


User FrancineCansMcGee:

Instead of being hysterical and r-slurred you could just say, "The well meaning votes to support the transgender agenda have had unforeseen negative consequences. The women voters who are the majority of the party who implemented these reforms should take note of the error and use their votes and lobbying power to address the issue in order to protect women and children going forward."


User Chicken Neck Nelly:

Leave it to leftist freaks to equate pointing out the highly accurate voting demographics in favor of these policies with wanting to see women r*ped by :!marseytrain:s and nigs. If I wanted to see that I wouldn't be so frustrated with how it all turned out, but there's only so much you can do, so becoming apathetic and saying "it's your own fault ya dumb c*nts" is really the best course of action, especially when leftists/centrists act all bewildered that this is occurring and try to rewrite history to avoid or refuse taking any responsibility for what they empirically by any metric voted for.


User Smashed & Slamed:

I think the biggest tell in this entire sperg out is that not one woman said "I didn't vote for this." It's all "Not all women are responsible for this."

If you can't stop acting like a toddler on Kiwi Farms and accept some imaginary responsibility then there is something really wrong with you.


User Chicken Neck Nelly:

Yep the stupid twat already admitted she will be voting for Biden again even after he issued executive orders like this the first week he was in office, which clearly set a tone for legislation throughout the country:

Then they wonder why we laugh at them for shooting themselves in the foot while they whine about the very policies they openly admit voting for.


User Sicko Hunter, quoting TheySeeMeRowlin's "literally one monolithic hivemind" post:

You won't win arguing with the r-slurs here. They literally do believe this is the case.


User Chicken Neck Nelly:

You're either a disingenuous cute twink or a stupid cute twink. Take your pick


User Otterly:

It would be nice to have someone to vote for who wasn't simply a slightly different flavour of the same hideous globohomo/asset stripping class who want to impoverish us and strip every right we have. The British public will probably overwhelmingly vote Labour in July which will make us completely go over the edge of Marxist dystopian horror. But can I blame them for kicking out the tories? Not really, they've been in power for 14 years during which time literally millions of thirdworlders have immigrated legally and illegally, and the country has deteriorated at at astonishing pace.

I would like to vote for someone who likes life, and likes my country, and likes the natives who live here. You would think that would be much to ask would you?


User Über:marseytrain2::

Women pre dominantly vote for soft on crime parties that support the gay and trans agenda. Had only male votes been counted no liberal or socialist parties would remain in power.


User jertzog:

Threadcow OP is asleep, so I will say that yes all women vote for this. Every last one is lying if they claim otherwise.


User Biggie Smalls' Taint:

We need the Kiwi Party. The platform is TXD: Total X Death.

TRD: Total Male feminist Death, tie male feminists to trucks and drag them through the streets

TDD: Total Diddler Death, a free bullet to the head to anyone who touches a kid.

TTD: Total :marseytrain: Death, redundant considering the previous two, but public executions of any and all :!marseytrain:s.

and to get women to vote for us, TBD: Total Baby Death. Chucking babies into an oven. Fetuses, born kids, toddlers, college-aged kids that won't get a job, bring them in and we'll dunk em in the broiler. We even offer two-for-> one deals where we throw the mom in the hotbox, baby and all. Bring the family, we'll chuck 'em in there, too. Grandma won't be a financial burden once she's golden brown and crispy.

The Kiwi Party: Total BIPOC Death is a given.


User Am I Very Wrong:

women shouldn't be able to vote


User The Punished Mitch, quoting TheySeeMeRowlin's post with the Mike Diana cartoon:

Least unhinged child murder enjoyer


User Am I Very Wrong, quoting the same TheySeeMeRowlin post:

i don't even understand why you get so mad over :!marseytrain:s. this looks just like the kind of stuff a degenerate coomer from the stinkditch galleries would post.

really the only thing that separate you is that you wish you had a peepee while they have the opposite problem. the projecting is the cherry on top.

keep voting left, they'll do the same


User Spud, quoting TheySeeMeRowlin saying that "There are no proven scientific differences between brains of different ethnicities":

People will say they believe in evolution and then say shit like this. You don't think that the environment that one brain found itself in would adapt differently than another in a completely different environment?


User The Punished Mitch:

It really is one of the most damaging and delusional copes of all time.


User Daddy's Little Kitten:

What the frick is this thread about?


User Peepeepoopoo Witch:

Why do these types of articles always devolve into bitching about women being allowed to vote, pro-life and anti-life politics, which s*x is more awful, and Romish p-dophiles being lumped in with Christians? :marseytrain2:s are privileged perverts and should be treated as such. The end!


And these are just a few choice highlights from a long thread consisting almost entirely of chudtard shitposting :poop: and shit-flinging :stoningshit: directed at the very few TERFs in the thread, who learned right away that they were vastly outnumbered by chudcel r-slurs. :chudcel: Alas, such is the state of Kiwi Farms today. :chuditsover:

@Aevann, Marseybux for stirring up and documenting rightoid infighting pls. Also, effortpost. :marseybeggar:


I've been binge watching Submarine movies the past week, and watched one movie which was one of my father's favorite, but I've forgotten :marseygrilling2: :marseydoubtit: what it was since I was 13 or 14 long ago.

It's called U-571, and released in 2000, way back when Hollyweird under Harvey Weinstein's Molesting :marseycreepy: :marseypedobear: leadership still released spectacular action thrillers, with interesting premises and plots. Our action warmovie of the day involves one Kraut U-boat which manages to get wounded by a destroyer, and while the Germans manage to survive and escape, their Diesel engines got damaged by the depth-charges, and all their mechanics/engineers got :marseynecklace: :marseynecklace: :marseynecklace: burned alive. While most of the crew remained alive, without engineers, the krauts were basically stranded in the middle of the Atlantic, so the captain decides to break protocol and break radio silence and phone home :marseygossip: :marseygossip: :marseygossip: for aid and for another Supply sub to come and repair them.

The movie follows the yanks intercepting the unguarded message and inferring the sub damaged, and making a hasty Special Operation to come and capture this wounded sub, with a hastily disguised Yank sub jury-rigged to look like a kraut on at first glance, so they can come close enough to board the German sub, and capture the all important artefact of the Enigma code-encryption machine!

Very cool plot


Like many (most) of yank movies released in the 1980s-2000 period, the yanks positively did not give a frick as to whom they would offend lol, the coked up executives of Hollyweird were pretty ideologically neutral from my experience, and had one usually priority, to make money, and in their brain addled minds, no movie could succeed in Burgerland :marseyscooter: :marseyburger: :marseymutt: unless yankoids were the main protagonist heroes of the movie.

So basically the big sneed is that the Historical inaccuracy is that Yanks, according to the Bongs, completely erased the lionshare of the contribution the Bongs made to the actual real life events in which the Bongs had captured the most out of a total of 15 Enigma code-encryption machines, and more significantly the accompanied undamaged codebooks throughout the war. In fact out of the total 15 Enigma machines captured, two had been by Canadian ships, and only one by a yank ship, out of the total 15 for the duration of the war, and the yank capturing was of one of the least significant. (Doesn't even include the influence the Polacks had)

So you can see if you are neurodivergent enough to care about History, then this movie stretched the actual yank contribution to the Enigma code-breaking efforts like a slinky down the stairs. :marseysmug6: :marseysmug6: :marseysmug6:

The hilarious part of these types of Hollyweird movies, changing events to cater to dumbass yank audiences, was that they had not intended that they were deliberate propaganda-pieces for the sake of presenting yanks as the all saviours of mankind, but that the coked-up Hollyweird executives were really just that r-slurred and were chasing what they believed was the winning formula for making the most amount of money! :marseycapitalistmanlet: :marseycapitalistmanlet: :marseycapitalistmanlet: :moneypile: :moneypile: :moneypile:

"U-571has been criticized by war experts and even former Prime Minister Tony Blair called the film an "affront" to the British sailors who were really responsible for the seizure of the machine (via BBC). Despite this, the film earned an Academy Award nomination for Best Sound Mixing and Best Sound Editing and is still a tense and clever movie with some fantastic cinematography."

"U-571 was directed by Jonathan Mostow and told the story of a World War II German submarine boarded by American submariners to capture her Enigma cipher machine. Though U-571 doesn't represent real events, it was called out :marseysoypoint: :marseysoypoint: :marseysoypoint: for its many historical and technical inaccuracies. From the latter category, military experts have pointed out that Kriegsmarine destroyers rarely ventured out into the open Atlantic Ocean (German Destroyers, by Gordon Williamson) and the website Uboat shared various inaccuracies related to U-boats, though Sub Lt. David Balme, who led the boarding party on U-110, called U-571 a "great film" (via BBC News), but added that it wouldn't have been financially viable if it hadn't been "Americanised"."

That's right Bongcucks movies are not financially viable unless Americanised! :capyamerican: :carpburger: :carpscooter: :muttrun: :burger: :eaglebikiniflag: :eaglebikiniflag: :eaglebikiniflag:

BONGS SNEED: :marseyqueen: :marseybritbongitsover: :marseybritbongitsover: :marseybritbongitsover:

Bongs didn't see it this way though.

10 years ago brit redditors still sour about it

Also even the Prime Bong would condemn the movie!


=====(from BBC article)

The hit Hollywood film U-571 has been condemned by the prime minister for its rewriting of history.

Tony Blair said that the film - a huge success in the US and number four in the UK box office chart on its opening weekend - was an "affront" to British sailors.

The film portrays the capture of the Enigma coding machine from a Nazi submarine - an event which changed the course of World War II - as an American rather than British, operation.

It was described in the Commons as an "affront" to British sailors killed in the operation. Mr Blair said that he entirely agreed.

The Culture Secretary, Chris Smith, has already said he will raise the issue in Hollywood for inaccurately glossing over the real story. He described the film as a "little galling".

Speaking during Question Time on Wednesday, a Labour MP, Brian Jenkins, said the film, was an "affront to the memories of the British sailors who lost their lives on this action".

Mr Blair responded: "I agree entirely with what you say...we hope that people realise these are people that, in many cases sacrificed their lives in order that this country remained free."

According to U-571, it was the US Navy that recovered the code machine, but the device was really captured by the crew of HMS Bulldog.

They disabled and seized German submarine U-110 to retrieve the device.


At the end of U-571, prior to the credits, it is made clear that the movie is fictional but inspired by real events.

[The end of the movie has a week blurb about some accrediting of of acknowledging Allied sailors like the Bongs, but it still makes the events of the movie appear that Yanks did the Lionshare of the capturing of the Enigma machines and the codebeaking, when the reality was reversed]

Critics have pointed out the film-makers could have made successful movie, which would have been just as enjoyable, by creating some new incident rather than distorting history.

A group of MPs, led by Chorley's Lindsay Hoyle, has already expressed "regret" about the film in a Commons' motion.

They noted: "(That British sailors) risked their lives to board the stricken submarine, facing the danger that it might sink at any time.

"That members of the boarding party were decorated for their heroism in retrieving the encoding device and that King George VI described their actions as perhaps the most important single event in the war at sea.

"And regrets that Hollywood has chosen to distort the truth and detract from the valour of the British sailors concerned by appropriating the story for its own financial gain."

And Mr Smith has said: "I think one of the things we need to make clear to Hollywood is, yes you're in the entertainment business but people see your movies, they're going to come away thinking that's information not just entertainment.

"You've got to make it clear where the dividing lines between these things lie."


What made the Bongs especially sneed :marseypotofsneed: :marseypotofsneed: :marseypotofsneed: :marseypotofsneed: :marseypotofsneed: was that the events of the movie seems to parrallel events in the capture of U-110, a British accomplishment, which was perhaps the most significant Enigma capture out of the 15 captured during the war,

and instead of creating a fictional event of yanks capturing an Enigma machine like an alternate universe event of a yank sub, this close resemblance of the real life capture of U-110 and its associated Enigma encryption-device really bussy-blasted the Brits.


"This 2000 film about a US submarine crew's attempt to steal an Enigma machine from a German U-boat was so inaccurate that it was darned by the UK parliament as an affront to the real sailors. And to make matters worse, it stars Jon Bon Jovi" :marseyxd: :marseyxd: :marseyxd: :marseyxd: :marseyxd: :marseyxd: :marseyxd:

====(from article)

There's just one problem. As depicted in the film "U-571," the sailors speak with American accents. :marseyeyeroll: :marseyeyeroll: :marseyeyeroll: :marseyeyeroll: And that has aggrieved many in Britain, whose sailors really did capture an Enigma in 1941-- before the United States even entered the war. Since the film opened in London last week, the controversy has filled newspaper columns and resounded in Parliament. Even Prime Minister Tony Blair and President Clinton have been drawn into the fray.

In the House of Commons on Wednesday, Blair said he "agreed entirely" with a lawmaker who denounced the film as an "affront to the memories of the British sailors who lost their lives on this action."

"We hope that people realize these are people that in many cases sacrificed their lives in order that this country remained free," Blair said. :carpeffigy: :carpeffigy: :carpeffigy:

In The Times newspaper, columnist Simon Jenkins decried "the deluge of historical hokum coming out of Hollywood."

The critics point to Steven Spielberg's "Saving Private Ryan," which excised the role of British and Canadian troops on D-Day. And columnists already have derided a planned U.S. remake of "The Colditz Story" that would depict American POWs escaping from the notorious German prison camp. In fact, not a single American escaped from Colditz. [Lmoa Bongs were still sneeding from Saving Private Ryan :marseylaughpoundfist: :marseylaughpoundfist:]

But British moviegoers may be voting with their feet: "U-571" has not matched its boffo U.S. success in Britain.

"It has had a limited impact at the box office," said Emma Cochrane, editor of the film magazine Empire.

Universal defends the film as a fictionalized account of the Allied effort to break Nazi communications.

And, in fact, Americans were involved in one seizure of an Enigma machine, near war's end in 1944. But the events depicted in "U-571" most closely resemble those of the 1941 sub capture.

Britain's culture minister, Chris Smith called the film "a little galling" -- and urged American filmmakers to take a more responsible attitude toward history. :marseyjanny: :marseyjanny: :marseyjanny: :marseyjanny2: :marseyjanny2: :marseyjanny2:


====(from CBSnews article)

But director Jonathan Mostow and writers Sam Montgomery and David Ayer deemed that American heroism was more likely to attract American audiences.

The heroic truth, the British say, has been torpedoed in the interest of profit. The rage has even surfaced in parliament.

In the House of Commons, the movie was called "an affront to the memories of the British sailors," a description that Prime Minister Tony Blair says is warranted. There was even a motion deploring the movie.

"If suddenly Iwo Jima was the British Royal Marines raising the flag after a fight with the Japanese, there would be an outcry," says Lindsay Hoyle, a member of Parliament.

But Balme is not bit bitter. :marseysurejan: :carpsurejan: :marseysurejian: Ironically, the controversy over a film about make-believe heroism has brought more attention to the real hero. The film honors his exploits - and he even visited the set.


=====(from spyscape)

The US Navy did capture the German submarine U-505 and two Enigma machines on June 4, 1944, though. So what's the fuss all about? SPYSCAPE took a deep dive into the drama behind the scenes.

The pivotal moment came on June 4, 1944, as Germany's U-505 sub cruised off West Africa on the prowl for American and Allied ships. U-505 was a familiar and fearful name but on this day, the dynamics shifted. The German predator found itself in the surprising role of the prey. Under fire by depth charges from destroyer escort Chatelain and two F4F 'Wildcat' aircraft, U-505 surfaced and surrendered.

It was a historic capture. It had been more than a century since any US naval force boarded and captured an enemy vessel at sea. The German crew of 58 were captured, eventually transferred to a PoW camp in Louisiana, and segregated.


The premiere of the movie U-571 in 2000 brought the decades-old war story into the mainstream media: 'Hollywood's Worst Historical Errors', the Daily Mail sneered. 'U-571: You give historical films a bad name,' The Guardian claimed. Even the UK Parliament darned the movie as an affront to the real sailors.

The British media gleefully pointed out the movie's errors, among them that the Allies had several Enigma machines and rotors by 1940 and that HMS Bulldog captured the first naval Enigma decoder from U-110 in the North Atlantic in 1941.

Enigma was deciphered seven months before the US even entered WWII. The 'Yanks', Britain sniffed, seemed to base the movie's 'true story' on Britain's 1941 Operation Primrose involving HMS Bulldog and the triumph of recovering the codebooks. :marseysniff: :marseysniff: :marseysniff: :phil: :phil: :phil: :bidenuhoh: :bidenuhoh: