u/Narwhal9Thousand hitler was a vegetarian, and neo nazis to this day use vegetarianism as a shield to pretend they're nice people. should we stop being vegan?
Are you comparing the way some use vegetarianism with other ways they can avoid ? Hmm, I'd say that this would be different. They aren't using it to keep their political views obscured, just to make themselves associated with nice people. What I've been talking about in this post is mainly about hiding from the fact that they're nazis, not making nazis look better.
The answer is no, by the way. That's not what my reasoning was even for stuff like milk and the ok hand. Vegetarianism is even more so unnecessary to abandon because according to you, they're not using it as a symbol, or dog whistle. They're only using it for a little better PR.
You mixed up vegan and vegetarian at the end there too.
Trolls + Nazis create and spread the meme together
Nazis use meme
Media mistakenly believes all usage of meme is nazi
If there's a meme that according to you makes you look like a nazi, but you always have the ability to deny it, why wouldn't the nazis use it? It's like the best tool ever for them.
As one 4chan white supremacist put it, they don't have to reveal their "true powerlevel."
So the trolls worked with the Nazis and the reverse vampires to create a symbol that they could use to show that they're Nazis but also claim ignorance of the symbol and that they really aren't Nazis?
No, the nazis worked with the trolls while pretending to be trolls. But, otherwise, yes.
It does sound kinda far-fetched, I know, but Nazis are smart now-a-days.
Well, will 9/11 truthers you don't have george bush come out and say it. Because I'm bad at explaining it in a non-conspiracy theory sounding way, why don't you watch this person do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx4BVGPkdzk
You realize you have the cart before the horse on this right. You claim nazi's are signaling each other covertly so others don't notice, and your proof is a symbol a troll pretended was a nazi symbol and it became famous so nazis started using it. If they started using it after a troll invented it and it became famous then it's not covert is it? It's literally the opposite of covert. So which is it, a covert symbol or a famous symbol? It can't be both.
PS it also can't be plausible deniability, because if it's truly plausible people do that and aren't nazis then the one receiving the signal can never be sure if it's truly a fellow nazi giving it or it's just noise cause everyone does it.
So if 99,9% of population uses the OK hand for 1 thing and 0,1% uses it to signal they're alt right. So now every time I see someone use 👌 I'm gonna assume they're nazis because I'm a reasonable person.
That's not what I've been saying. I know it's not your job to go look my old comments (especially now that they're buried underneath literally 80 comments about transgenderism) but ugh, I keep having to explain this.
If someone uses it, they're probably not a nazi, but you have to look at what else they're doing. It can be a good yellow warning flag to think about what else they've been saying.
Who are these nazis that are using it? I’ve literally seen one picture with about 6 cops in it that I(and others) assumed were racist, but there’s absolutely nothing to back it up. Other than that who are these nazis? Where are these pictures of them using it?
Do you find it ironic that the same people who ‘bash the fash ’ not only put up absolutely no fight when ‘the nazis created this secret code’ from an every day hand signal, but also have no problem broad brushing someone who uses it cluelessly and isn’t hip to this new meaning a handful of people know about?
Dude if they are going to covertly make symbols to each other, what is the harm in letting them do that? As long as it stays covert it can't hurt anyone. The harm in white nationalists is when they begin acting on their hate, at which point they are no longer being covert are they. You hunting after them is giving them a platform they don't otherwise have.
Dude, they're not ninjas. Nazi ideology is so far outside the Overton window it's not going to sneak up on you. Anti-semitism did not come out of nowhere in the 1940's.
Imagine caring about what some YouTube talking head thinks.
Form your own opinions. Think for yourself. Build up your beliefs and then defend your them yourself. Your use of other people's arguments and debates shows that you don't really put much critical thinking into your beliefs and most likely don't consider other perspective than the one you have some random YouTuber spoon-feed you. If you keep using other people's arguments to form your beliefs, you're just going to become easily manipulated. Try to find less manipulative and biased sources, this rules out YouTube and documentaries, to build your beliefs. If you can't find any relatively low bias sources, look at sources from all non-super-extremist viewpoints, this rules out sources like Stormfront not Fox News, and then think about the subject. So many people fall into these opinion givers like Contrapoints for the left and similar people on the right (I can't think of any ATM) and just listen to them uncritically because they're reasonably charismatic and can build a decent argument.
I hate to try to prove myself to you, but whatever.
I get most of my news from NPR, and regularly read books on philosophy and politics. Just because someone else thought of something first doesn’t make it wrong, yeah doesn’t mean it’s right but that’s why you think about it.
Also, they don’t always think of it first, they just are often better skilled in displaying the idea. Why reinvent the wheel? Actually I can answer that, to better understand how the wheel works. I guess I often do that in arguing like this because it’d be months since I last learned about a topic and I have to figure it out again on my own.
You’ve made some incorrect assumptions about me.
Ughh... I feel like I’m getting too close to r/iamverysmart, but I don’t know how else to respond
to this type of accusation other than ignoring it.
How often do you read opinions from someone you disagree with? Political/philosophy books are almost as biased as youtubers. If you don't look at a variety of viewpoints, especially those you disagree with, you won't get anything except manipulated. You've shown that you can consume information and rhetoric, but that's the easy part. You need to think about it and see where the differing perspectives come from.
Your comments make it very clear that you have a black and white view of the world. You fail to look into the reasons behind other's beliefs/actions and it shows in your responses here.
I wrote out like half of a thing, but then realized that I don't really have to prove anything about myself, and you already have your own things figured out enough. I'm just posting relatively short responses instead.
First part of first paragraph:
Isn't that what I'm doing right now? I do consume some right wing stuff just to see what they're doing sometimes. Might not be their finest quality, but they seem to think it's good.
Isn't that what I'm doing right now? I do consume some right wing stuff just to see what they're doing sometimes.
If you think this sub or /r/mallninjashit is right wing, you most obviously don't have a unbiased enough perspective to discern what is right wing and what just disagrees with you.
It's not pedantic because making fascism race-based is a pretty damn huge change in the definition of fascism, and it's not made clear that it's American based at all, she only mentions european culture specifically.
But for the sake of argument let's say you're right. So then if a huge Hirohito revisionism wave sweeps the Japanese youth of America and they replicate the beliefs of their 30's/40's counterparts in militarism, xenophobia, and their race theories, they wouldn't be fascist then?
Some tribes of Papa New Guinea are cannibals. Should we interfere with their culture and stop them? After all, they will kill and eat people from another tribe.
52 comments
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1 StrategicSarcasm 2019-05-22
Perhaps the most important connection from the most determined Nazi hunter in the thread: GAMER GATE
1 Narwhal9Thousand 2019-05-22
I wouldn't call that an important connection, I was just using it as a similar expression of the same type of tactic.
1 BurgerLaowai 2019-05-22
Real Nazis would put gamers in the gas chamber...
They didn't care much for lazy folk.
1 my_other_drama_alt 2019-05-22
wait i just realized deux has pinging
u/Narwhal9Thousand hitler was a vegetarian, and neo nazis to this day use vegetarianism as a shield to pretend they're nice people. should we stop being vegan?
1 Narwhal9Thousand 2019-05-22
Are you comparing the way some use vegetarianism with other ways they can avoid ? Hmm, I'd say that this would be different. They aren't using it to keep their political views obscured, just to make themselves associated with nice people. What I've been talking about in this post is mainly about hiding from the fact that they're nazis, not making nazis look better.
The answer is no, by the way. That's not what my reasoning was even for stuff like milk and the ok hand. Vegetarianism is even more so unnecessary to abandon because according to you, they're not using it as a symbol, or dog whistle. They're only using it for a little better PR.
You mixed up vegan and vegetarian at the end there too.
1 my_other_drama_alt 2019-05-22
nazis dont use the okayhand, but they are vegan tho
1 Narwhal9Thousand 2019-05-22
Yeah nazis don't use the okay hand, because we realized that they did. Veganism doesn't matter.
1 trilateral1 2019-05-22
Nazis banned animal cruelty. If you still refuse to torture at least a frog or small bird, people are going to assume you're a Nazi.
1 BurgerLaowai 2019-05-22
You know that 4chan made up that whole OK symbol = nazi thing.
There are logs proving it... And yet you believe it?
1 Narwhal9Thousand 2019-05-22
Yes, and nazis used it because they can use the cop-out "it's just a joke to troll the libs." It's what I've been saying.
1 BurgerLaowai 2019-05-22
Your logic is messed up.
1 Narwhal9Thousand 2019-05-22
Your perception is incorrect
Trolls + Nazis create and spread the meme together Nazis use meme Media mistakenly believes all usage of meme is nazi
If there's a meme that according to you makes you look like a nazi, but you always have the ability to deny it, why wouldn't the nazis use it? It's like the best tool ever for them. As one 4chan white supremacist put it, they don't have to reveal their "true powerlevel."
1 5odastream 2019-05-22
The origin of the meme was literally as a joke you foid
1 Narwhal9Thousand 2019-05-22
Ok, then
>Trolls create, then spread with help of nazis the meme.
>Nazis use meme
>Media mistakenly believes all usage of meme is Nazi.
And, your statement is also negated by the second statement of my previous comment.
1 MPHJ-7 2019-05-22
It was literally created to make people believe that the ok sign was a Neo-Nazi symbol.
By calling it a Neo-Nazi symbol, that's basically doing what the trolls/nazis/whatever-you-call-them wanted.
1 BurgerLaowai 2019-05-22
So the trolls worked with the Nazis and the reverse vampires to create a symbol that they could use to show that they're Nazis but also claim ignorance of the symbol and that they really aren't Nazis?
ok
1 Narwhal9Thousand 2019-05-22
No, the nazis worked with the trolls while pretending to be trolls. But, otherwise, yes.
It does sound kinda far-fetched, I know, but Nazis are smart now-a-days.
1 BurgerLaowai 2019-05-22
You sound just like 9/11 truthers...
1 Narwhal9Thousand 2019-05-22
Well, will 9/11 truthers you don't have george bush come out and say it. Because I'm bad at explaining it in a non-conspiracy theory sounding way, why don't you watch this person do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx4BVGPkdzk
1 Verlieren_ist_Unser 2019-05-22
It's always ContraPoints...why is it always contrapoints?
Who cares what some retarded tranny things anyways?
1 Narwhal9Thousand 2019-05-22
Mmm, hate to be that guy that just points out dumb debate things, but uh “Ad Hominem.”
Maybe you shouldn’t be such a dick and write off people with things to say.
1 a_few 2019-05-22
This sounds like a deep state conspiracy reaching far and wide. We MUST go further, deeper! The fate of humanity rests on our shoulders
1 cleverseneca 2019-05-22
You realize you have the cart before the horse on this right. You claim nazi's are signaling each other covertly so others don't notice, and your proof is a symbol a troll pretended was a nazi symbol and it became famous so nazis started using it. If they started using it after a troll invented it and it became famous then it's not covert is it? It's literally the opposite of covert. So which is it, a covert symbol or a famous symbol? It can't be both.
PS it also can't be plausible deniability, because if it's truly plausible people do that and aren't nazis then the one receiving the signal can never be sure if it's truly a fellow nazi giving it or it's just noise cause everyone does it.
1 Woolgun 2019-05-22
So if 99,9% of population uses the OK hand for 1 thing and 0,1% uses it to signal they're alt right. So now every time I see someone use 👌 I'm gonna assume they're nazis because I'm a reasonable person.
1 Narwhal9Thousand 2019-05-22
That's not what I've been saying. I know it's not your job to go look my old comments (especially now that they're buried underneath literally 80 comments about transgenderism) but ugh, I keep having to explain this.
If someone uses it, they're probably not a nazi, but you have to look at what else they're doing. It can be a good yellow warning flag to think about what else they've been saying.
1 Woolgun 2019-05-22
I agree. If I see someone flashing an OK hand in front of a swastika, it's a decent giveaway that he's a nazi.
If I see a video of someone saying "kill all blacks" while wearing a pepe t-shirt, it's safe to say he's a nazi.
Funny how much of a giveaway these symbols can be huh?
1 a_few 2019-05-22
Who are these nazis that are using it? I’ve literally seen one picture with about 6 cops in it that I(and others) assumed were racist, but there’s absolutely nothing to back it up. Other than that who are these nazis? Where are these pictures of them using it?
1 Narwhal9Thousand 2019-05-22
Basically the ones on 4-chan and YouTube. They'd probably prefer to be called "race-realists" or whatever, but they're practically nazis.
It may seem like they're just harmless internet guys, but many people watch their videos.
1 a_few 2019-05-22
Do you find it ironic that the same people who ‘bash the fash ’ not only put up absolutely no fight when ‘the nazis created this secret code’ from an every day hand signal, but also have no problem broad brushing someone who uses it cluelessly and isn’t hip to this new meaning a handful of people know about?
1 cleverseneca 2019-05-22
Dude if they are going to covertly make symbols to each other, what is the harm in letting them do that? As long as it stays covert it can't hurt anyone. The harm in white nationalists is when they begin acting on their hate, at which point they are no longer being covert are they. You hunting after them is giving them a platform they don't otherwise have.
1 Narwhal9Thousand 2019-05-22
Hmm, this I think is a good point. Best one I've heard yet at least. I'll have to think about that.
1 cleverseneca 2019-05-22
Dude, they're not ninjas. Nazi ideology is so far outside the Overton window it's not going to sneak up on you. Anti-semitism did not come out of nowhere in the 1940's.
1 Narwhal9Thousand 2019-05-22
You'd be surprised, they don't frame it as antisemitism now. To save time and effort, just watch this. Fun and informative https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx4BVGPkdzk
1 LightUmbra 2019-05-22
Imagine caring about what some YouTube talking head thinks.
Form your own opinions. Think for yourself. Build up your beliefs and then defend your them yourself. Your use of other people's arguments and debates shows that you don't really put much critical thinking into your beliefs and most likely don't consider other perspective than the one you have some random YouTuber spoon-feed you. If you keep using other people's arguments to form your beliefs, you're just going to become easily manipulated. Try to find less manipulative and biased sources, this rules out YouTube and documentaries, to build your beliefs. If you can't find any relatively low bias sources, look at sources from all non-super-extremist viewpoints, this rules out sources like Stormfront not Fox News, and then think about the subject. So many people fall into these opinion givers like Contrapoints for the left and similar people on the right (I can't think of any ATM) and just listen to them uncritically because they're reasonably charismatic and can build a decent argument.
1 Narwhal9Thousand 2019-05-22
I hate to try to prove myself to you, but whatever. I get most of my news from NPR, and regularly read books on philosophy and politics. Just because someone else thought of something first doesn’t make it wrong, yeah doesn’t mean it’s right but that’s why you think about it. Also, they don’t always think of it first, they just are often better skilled in displaying the idea. Why reinvent the wheel? Actually I can answer that, to better understand how the wheel works. I guess I often do that in arguing like this because it’d be months since I last learned about a topic and I have to figure it out again on my own.
You’ve made some incorrect assumptions about me.
Ughh... I feel like I’m getting too close to r/iamverysmart, but I don’t know how else to respond to this type of accusation other than ignoring it.
1 LightUmbra 2019-05-22
How often do you read opinions from someone you disagree with? Political/philosophy books are almost as biased as youtubers. If you don't look at a variety of viewpoints, especially those you disagree with, you won't get anything except manipulated. You've shown that you can consume information and rhetoric, but that's the easy part. You need to think about it and see where the differing perspectives come from.
Your comments make it very clear that you have a black and white view of the world. You fail to look into the reasons behind other's beliefs/actions and it shows in your responses here.
1 Narwhal9Thousand 2019-05-22
I wrote out like half of a thing, but then realized that I don't really have to prove anything about myself, and you already have your own things figured out enough. I'm just posting relatively short responses instead.
First part of first paragraph:
Isn't that what I'm doing right now? I do consume some right wing stuff just to see what they're doing sometimes. Might not be their finest quality, but they seem to think it's good.
Last part of first paragraph:
I think I do that.
Second paragraph:
Eh, I think you've mispegged me there.
1 LightUmbra 2019-05-22
If you think this sub or /r/mallninjashit is right wing, you most obviously don't have a unbiased enough perspective to discern what is right wing and what just disagrees with you.
1 cool_guy_awsomed00d 2019-05-22
TIL that the Japanese government in the 30's and 40's wasn't fascist because it wasn't grounded in white supremacy.
This was VERY informative, thank you,
1 Narwhal9Thousand 2019-05-22
Way to be pedantic, it's clear that what is meant is American Fascists.
1 cool_guy_awsomed00d 2019-05-22
It's not pedantic because making fascism race-based is a pretty damn huge change in the definition of fascism, and it's not made clear that it's American based at all, she only mentions european culture specifically.
But for the sake of argument let's say you're right. So then if a huge Hirohito revisionism wave sweeps the Japanese youth of America and they replicate the beliefs of their 30's/40's counterparts in militarism, xenophobia, and their race theories, they wouldn't be fascist then?
1 BurgerLaowai 2019-05-22
Yes, because animals are tasty.
1 cleverseneca 2019-05-22
It's an ethical thing, I don't think humans should be treated like this.
1 BurgerLaowai 2019-05-22
Well, we're not eating people, are we?
Some tribes of Papa New Guinea are cannibals. Should we interfere with their culture and stop them? After all, they will kill and eat people from another tribe.
1 cleverseneca 2019-05-22
https://youtube.com/watch?v=5Mr-2jb6oNA&feature=youtu.be
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1 Kat_B0T 2019-05-22
u/teebone954
Post tots?
1 MPHJ-7 2019-05-22
Did they just . . . link to the ContraPoints video?
One minute in, and she shows that she just defines Fascism as "White nationalism plus Antisemetism".
1 arandomloser21 2019-05-22
Is Contra the left version of Sargon or something? I've been seeing Contra pop up so much more often nowadays.