If you could just switch back to the gold standard so we could have real money with integrity that causes a global depression every 2 years, that would be great.
Did you know that the US dollar was worth more in 1900 than in 1800? Imagine if it was worth even close to the same in 2000 as 1900. Lmao it barely even began for fiatcels.
The dollar isn't an investment, I don't give a shit if it's gained value over a century. If you kept a dollar around for a century waiting for it to gain value you deserve to be slapped. Inflation is good because it's basically that slap irl.
Inflation is a tool of the ruling class that perpetuates the debt-based consumption economy and props up investments as a market, shovelling money into their own pockets.
Yep let's just make a bunch of notes that say we owe you gold act print a shit ton more of those than we actually have gold and just hope people never actually redeem them. In fact pretty much bully them if they try. That's real value there.
Fractional reserve banking doesn't really exist, it's a myth people made up after the great depression to make themselves feel better and like maybe there actually was something there. Like clearly banks do not merely collect money and loan it out from their deposits. Like where in this scenario would the first people who deposited their bills have gotten them in the first place? Clearly money originates from the banks, not deposited.
Money comes from loans. Loans are literally money printing. When you use your credit card to buy a tendie, you have slightly increased the money supply. When you pay off your debts, you decreased the money supply. If everyone paid off their debts there would be no money, the economy would implode, and we'd all starve to death. Actually I'm pretty sure it's not even mathematically possible for everyone to pay off their debts, obviously because of interest banks consider themselves to be owed more money than actually exists in the world. Bankruptcy is basically a mandatory feature of the system, somebody has to be left holding the hot potato eventually.
Naturally though it is true that banks hate when you actually withdraw bank notes, that is basically an obligation against them. This is why they are slowly pushing everyone towards a paperless system where it's all just credits in their ledger.
They're required by law to have a reserve of a certain fraction. The requirement was tightened after the financial crisis. The reserve is held at the central bank.
I don't know the instruments of the Fed, but if it's like the national bank of Denmark (which it probably is), then any lending is either for a single day only or for a 7-day period, with no long term lending, and with collateral. If they can't pay back the loan after 7 days the collateral is forfeited and they'll probably lose rights (these instruments are only available to a limited number of institutions termed "counterparts of monetary policy"). IIRC the Fed has a 14-day one as well. In case of a liquidity crisis there can be extraordinary operations to help banks, of course.
Needless to say all banks are going to have a reserve to ensure their own liquidity, but recently states have instituted or tightened legal requirements because it was the general opinion that reserves were too low in light of the liquidity crises of 2008 and 2012 (in the Eurozone). Perhaps the pressure on banks to produce returns is too high, especially when you consider that they don't factor in the social costs associated with the risk of systemic crisis in their individual risk/return analysis.
You know if millennials all actually did take that advice and stopped consuming the economy would probably immediately just explode into a thousand pieces. I'm pretty sure that millennials spending is the only thing that keeps the economy even slightly working. If we all just dropped it into an index fund instead the index fund would be toilet paper in a month.
There's a theoretical optimal saving rate for an economy to maximize consumption in the long run, and the US is below its optimum. The optimal saving rate is usually said to be 1/3, but according to the World Bank the current US savings rate is 17.7 pct.
The reason for this is that savings is what is used to make investments with, and investments are what maintain and increase productive capabilities, ensuring future consumption.
In other words, obey your parents and keep your gaze firmly fixed to the ground you millennial swine.
Are you a literal NPC? First you had trouble counting to two, now you're just copy and pasting your replies. Do you need some time to update before you can type anything new?
You don't want money to stay exactly the same, it's not intended as an investment or a long term store of value. If it can be used as such that discourages its circulation and is actual destructive to its actual usefulness.
Also FYI the best investment you can make early on is like 10k in the bank sitting around liquid for you to withdraw in necessary situations. This prevents you from going into debt in those situations. Also this emergency funds will just sit there eating inflation your whole life. Congrats.
If you put it in an index fund have fun liquidating that in a jiff or figuring out how to take a loan against it which has a higher interest rate than your ror even though it's 100% secured at no risk to the bank. If you do not have the emergency fund and wind up using credit cards lmao, ride the lightning baby.
The effect is the same, just because they aren’t literally printing money doesn’t mean they aren’t artificially inflating the money supply. It could also be argued that artificially lowering the interest rates to banks is bad in and of itself due to it having a diverting effect from producers of wealth to lenders of artificially created credit.
The economy is usually in either of two states:
-a recessionary gap (where GDP is less than the amount required to satisfy equilibrium aggregate demand)
-an inflationary gap where GDP exceeds equilibrium aggregate demand
To fix these, the Fed “artificially” changes inflation rates to adjust aggregate demand or GDP. Fiscal policy like tax cuts / welfare can also change these.
The markets aren’t perfect but these policies have unintended effects which you pointed out.
TRTR (too retarded to read): don’t be a cucked ideologuege when considering monetary policy and pick the centrist option.
Fiscal policy like tax cuts / welfare can also change these.
Government spending is literally money creation now that I think of it. Like when congress passes a budget the treasury literally just credits the accounts of the agencies in question. It creates money. The intention is that this will eventually be soaked up with taxes, or debt which is a representation of future taxes. But it does create money and increase the money supply.
The problem is, the fed doesn’t rly adjust for inflationary gaps, when the economy is clearly booming, they aught to heavily raise rates to actually try to make it keep in line with aggregate demand, but they don’t.
The idea of the fed and monetary policy isn’t itself bad, it’s just that in reality, the fed is never going to undercut economic “”success”” by raising the interests rates even when it is necessary in the long run.
What you said is a whole load of garbage honestly. You are naive like a child, it's beautiful. It is significantly worse than you think it is, and that is and always has been the entire point of the system.
diverting effect from producers of wealth to lenders of artificially created credit.
All money comes from credit originally. Without people with access to credit it doesn't matter what you do, there won't be people in the economy with dollars to give you for it. All credit is money creation, and all money is credit. If everyone paid off their debts, there's nothing, it all sums to 0. The process of it going to 0 is going to be a very painful one, if you want to go down that path because somehow you believe the economy is just a bunch of rugged individual producers living in a vacuum creating value which has some objective meaning outside of society.
Actually there are several possible sources of money creation. What you've described is actually quantitative easing and is an extraordinary procedure.
Any time any bank issues a loan it slightly increases the money supply. When a loan is paid back, it decreases the money supply. The federal reserve has tools to encourage or discourage lending and it uses this roughly usually to try and keep things steady and prevent the banks from pulling too much money out of their ass.
After 2008 the banks decided that they were too retarded after what they'd just done to actually lend anything, though, so the fed couldn't do jack shit to keep up the money supply through these means, no matter how cheap the feds made credit the banks wouldn't lend. So the fed had to pull this wizardry where they printed money and just bought shit with it to introduce money into the economy. Like technically they could have printed money, but buying an asset with the printed money gives them something to sell back to sop up the excess money eventually. And usually they just buy their own bonds, sometimes they'd just buy random other shit though. Just any form if capital that wasn't too dishcloth to liquidate eventually.
This managed to keep the economy from going into a great depression. Instead of everyone being unemployed were all cashiers and rant and Healthcare costs our whole paycheck. So we have to take on land to keep living, which is great, we're driving the whole economy like that, it would collapse without someone spending beyond their means to make up for all the billionaires hoarding ludicrous sums and living like kings just scraping off the interest. If someone is saving in the economy, there has to be debt elsewhere. It is math.
Modern developed economies just don't give af, negative interest rates, fuck yeah, let's make credit worth more than savings. You can print all the money you want and people are too depressed to even bother with inflation. It doesn't make things any better, but it doesn't make it any worse either. Instead of withdrawing your money from the bank and sticking it under your mattress, the fed can just print money for you to stick under your mattress. That way you can keep your money in the bank. Or maybe you just have twice as much money under your mattress.
The monetary and banking system - it's all bad. There's a lot of sausage making, there is no beautiful trick in there. The more you learn about it, the more it's just like holy shit. Like I'm 99% sure the first person who started doing this intended to be doing a fraud, and was just stunned when it kept going on and became a legit profession. I mean what else when you start printing notes that say "I'll give you gold for this", and just go ahead and print a shit ton more than you actually have gold to redeem in the hope they won't actually be redeemed. And when you give out a loan, you just add some numbers to that person's ledger, and you also add some numbers to your own. You create a piece of paper saying that that guy is gonna give you X much of those notes in the future, the notes which represent gold that you don't actually have, and you add that value to your own account. That cancels itself out right, I did an add and subtract, so it should be good. Boom, you've just gained money by giving it away.
Used to treat my mattress like the ATM
Bond number 9 that's my favorite scent
Can't forget the kush I'm talking OG
Rest in peace to pop he was an OG
66 comments
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9 BalkanCommandoForce 2020-03-09
If you could just switch back to the gold standard so we could have real money with integrity that causes a global depression every 2 years, that would be great.
9 FroppyHoppyMyFloppy 2020-03-09
Did you know that the US dollar was worth more in 1900 than in 1800? Imagine if it was worth even close to the same in 2000 as 1900. Lmao it barely even began for fiatcels.
9 2cimarafa 2020-03-09
Thank you for that irrelevant consideration for everyone who doesn’t store their money under their bed.
3 FroppyHoppyMyFloppy 2020-03-09
My grandpappy passed this mattress and it’s contents down to me as his pappy did him.
5 ThouShaltHearLight 2020-03-09
This is why I store every cumsock in a storage unit. My heritage
2 finitewaves 2020-03-09
what are the implications
1 watermark1917 2020-03-09
The dollar isn't an investment, I don't give a shit if it's gained value over a century. If you kept a dollar around for a century waiting for it to gain value you deserve to be slapped. Inflation is good because it's basically that slap irl.
1 GhostOfAFart 2020-03-09
Nein. Inflation is bad because it destroys people's savings.
1 IcyTemporary 2020-03-09
Only if you invest your savings in currency. S=I.
1 GhostOfAFart 2020-03-09
Economics is astrology for moids.
1 FroppyHoppyMyFloppy 2020-03-09
Inflation is a tool of the ruling class that perpetuates the debt-based consumption economy and props up investments as a market, shovelling money into their own pockets.
8 MySQ_uirre_L 2020-03-09
more like every 30 years compared to the every 12 under fiat
or we move to crypto 🤭😬
1 TimGuoRen 2020-03-09
What we consider a depression today would not be on the radar 100 years ago, though.
1 watermark1917 2020-03-09
Crashes happened all the time under the gold standard. Gold standard was always a scam anyway.
Crypto is a CIA op cmv
1 Ikbenaanhetwerkhoor 2020-03-09
...and have daily crashes.
5 hyledog 2020-03-09
Yes
1 [deleted] 2020-03-09
[deleted]
1 watermark1917 2020-03-09
Yep let's just make a bunch of notes that say we owe you gold act print a shit ton more of those than we actually have gold and just hope people never actually redeem them. In fact pretty much bully them if they try. That's real value there.
1 bbtheftgod 2020-03-09
When Regan demanded to see what the gold reserves were at, thet showed him, he shut up. There is no gold, its all in the hands of bankers.
7 Turbulenttomatoes 2020-03-09
Brrrrr hehhehheh🤤🤪 brrrr
4 mums_spaghetto 2020-03-09
haha i laff
4 VanillaReign 2020-03-09
Uh... why is the money printer being fed with already-printed money and not blank paper? My immersion has been shattered.
8 TGxRedPlayer 2020-03-09
It's copying it
4 AI_WAIFU 2020-03-09
It's called fractional reserve banking.
1 watermark1917 2020-03-09
Fractional reserve banking doesn't really exist, it's a myth people made up after the great depression to make themselves feel better and like maybe there actually was something there. Like clearly banks do not merely collect money and loan it out from their deposits. Like where in this scenario would the first people who deposited their bills have gotten them in the first place? Clearly money originates from the banks, not deposited.
Money comes from loans. Loans are literally money printing. When you use your credit card to buy a tendie, you have slightly increased the money supply. When you pay off your debts, you decreased the money supply. If everyone paid off their debts there would be no money, the economy would implode, and we'd all starve to death. Actually I'm pretty sure it's not even mathematically possible for everyone to pay off their debts, obviously because of interest banks consider themselves to be owed more money than actually exists in the world. Bankruptcy is basically a mandatory feature of the system, somebody has to be left holding the hot potato eventually.
Naturally though it is true that banks hate when you actually withdraw bank notes, that is basically an obligation against them. This is why they are slowly pushing everyone towards a paperless system where it's all just credits in their ledger.
1 IcyTemporary 2020-03-09
What you describe IS fractional reserve banking, i.e. banks only hold a fraction of their lending in reserve.
1 --Audrey2 2020-03-09
Do they even really need a reserve? Don't they just "borrow" from the fed at like 1% interest
1 IcyTemporary 2020-03-09
They're required by law to have a reserve of a certain fraction. The requirement was tightened after the financial crisis. The reserve is held at the central bank.
I don't know the instruments of the Fed, but if it's like the national bank of Denmark (which it probably is), then any lending is either for a single day only or for a 7-day period, with no long term lending, and with collateral. If they can't pay back the loan after 7 days the collateral is forfeited and they'll probably lose rights (these instruments are only available to a limited number of institutions termed "counterparts of monetary policy"). IIRC the Fed has a 14-day one as well. In case of a liquidity crisis there can be extraordinary operations to help banks, of course. Needless to say all banks are going to have a reserve to ensure their own liquidity, but recently states have instituted or tightened legal requirements because it was the general opinion that reserves were too low in light of the liquidity crises of 2008 and 2012 (in the Eurozone). Perhaps the pressure on banks to produce returns is too high, especially when you consider that they don't factor in the social costs associated with the risk of systemic crisis in their individual risk/return analysis.
2 Sonicmansuperb 2020-03-09
It’s like poetry
2 Pomodorodorodoro 2020-03-09
You have to spend money to make money.
1 watermark1917 2020-03-09
Millennials need to stop spending and save some!
You know if millennials all actually did take that advice and stopped consuming the economy would probably immediately just explode into a thousand pieces. I'm pretty sure that millennials spending is the only thing that keeps the economy even slightly working. If we all just dropped it into an index fund instead the index fund would be toilet paper in a month.
1 IcyTemporary 2020-03-09
There's a theoretical optimal saving rate for an economy to maximize consumption in the long run, and the US is below its optimum. The optimal saving rate is usually said to be 1/3, but according to the World Bank the current US savings rate is 17.7 pct.
The reason for this is that savings is what is used to make investments with, and investments are what maintain and increase productive capabilities, ensuring future consumption.
In other words, obey your parents and keep your gaze firmly fixed to the ground you millennial swine.
4 snowkarl 2020-03-09
that's actually funny
4 gigabitbob 2020-03-09
its funny because ancaps don’t even believe in a standard currency and want all trade to be by bitcoin or gold
2 MySQ_uirre_L 2020-03-09
they want trade specifically in the currency they have a long position on.
3 inceltiers2 2020-03-09
QE is the chad response to any economic issue
3 TrailerParkRide 2020-03-09
words words words words words words words
=====================================
‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ VS.
=====================================
when u print 💰
‌
lmao bottom text
2 SnapshillBot 2020-03-09
Are you a literal NPC? First you had trouble counting to two, now you're just copy and pasting your replies. Do you need some time to update before you can type anything new?
Snapshots:
I am just a simple bot, *not** a moderator of this subreddit* | bot subreddit | contact the maintainers
2 finitewaves 2020-03-09
money is a concept
3 greyham11 2020-03-09
value is a concept, money is its concrete representation
2 finitewaves 2020-03-09
why do you know so much about money? are you a leprachaun?
1 NotchDidNothingWrong 2020-03-09
Money is so concrete you need to base it in metals for a hope of it staying the same.
1 watermark1917 2020-03-09
You don't want money to stay exactly the same, it's not intended as an investment or a long term store of value. If it can be used as such that discourages its circulation and is actual destructive to its actual usefulness.
Also FYI the best investment you can make early on is like 10k in the bank sitting around liquid for you to withdraw in necessary situations. This prevents you from going into debt in those situations. Also this emergency funds will just sit there eating inflation your whole life. Congrats.
If you put it in an index fund have fun liquidating that in a jiff or figuring out how to take a loan against it which has a higher interest rate than your ror even though it's 100% secured at no risk to the bank. If you do not have the emergency fund and wind up using credit cards lmao, ride the lightning baby.
1 NotchDidNothingWrong 2020-03-09
Money being fluid might not be inherently bad, but it's not "concrete".
2 flameoguy 2020-03-09
wooooooooooooo go fed gooooo
2 aqouta 2020-03-09
Which of the irony continuums is this one on?
1 loli_esports 2020-03-09
Why is the money printer using money to print?
1 prisonlambshanks 2020-03-09
Yes I am a fan of the papiermark. How did you know?
1 melvin_toby235 2020-03-09
That’s not how it works you absolute brainlets.
They buy back US bonds -> adding dollars to the economy -> increasing money supply -> lowering interest rates in loan market.
Read a fucking basic macro book.
1 labbelajban 2020-03-09
The effect is the same, just because they aren’t literally printing money doesn’t mean they aren’t artificially inflating the money supply. It could also be argued that artificially lowering the interest rates to banks is bad in and of itself due to it having a diverting effect from producers of wealth to lenders of artificially created credit.
1 melvin_toby235 2020-03-09
There is a happy medium.
The economy is usually in either of two states: -a recessionary gap (where GDP is less than the amount required to satisfy equilibrium aggregate demand) -an inflationary gap where GDP exceeds equilibrium aggregate demand
To fix these, the Fed “artificially” changes inflation rates to adjust aggregate demand or GDP. Fiscal policy like tax cuts / welfare can also change these.
The markets aren’t perfect but these policies have unintended effects which you pointed out.
TRTR (too retarded to read): don’t be a cucked ideologuege when considering monetary policy and pick the centrist option.
1 watermark1917 2020-03-09
Government spending is literally money creation now that I think of it. Like when congress passes a budget the treasury literally just credits the accounts of the agencies in question. It creates money. The intention is that this will eventually be soaked up with taxes, or debt which is a representation of future taxes. But it does create money and increase the money supply.
1 labbelajban 2020-03-09
The problem is, the fed doesn’t rly adjust for inflationary gaps, when the economy is clearly booming, they aught to heavily raise rates to actually try to make it keep in line with aggregate demand, but they don’t.
The idea of the fed and monetary policy isn’t itself bad, it’s just that in reality, the fed is never going to undercut economic “”success”” by raising the interests rates even when it is necessary in the long run.
1 watermark1917 2020-03-09
What you said is a whole load of garbage honestly. You are naive like a child, it's beautiful. It is significantly worse than you think it is, and that is and always has been the entire point of the system.
All money comes from credit originally. Without people with access to credit it doesn't matter what you do, there won't be people in the economy with dollars to give you for it. All credit is money creation, and all money is credit. If everyone paid off their debts, there's nothing, it all sums to 0. The process of it going to 0 is going to be a very painful one, if you want to go down that path because somehow you believe the economy is just a bunch of rugged individual producers living in a vacuum creating value which has some objective meaning outside of society.
1 watermark1917 2020-03-09
Actually there are several possible sources of money creation. What you've described is actually quantitative easing and is an extraordinary procedure.
Any time any bank issues a loan it slightly increases the money supply. When a loan is paid back, it decreases the money supply. The federal reserve has tools to encourage or discourage lending and it uses this roughly usually to try and keep things steady and prevent the banks from pulling too much money out of their ass.
After 2008 the banks decided that they were too retarded after what they'd just done to actually lend anything, though, so the fed couldn't do jack shit to keep up the money supply through these means, no matter how cheap the feds made credit the banks wouldn't lend. So the fed had to pull this wizardry where they printed money and just bought shit with it to introduce money into the economy. Like technically they could have printed money, but buying an asset with the printed money gives them something to sell back to sop up the excess money eventually. And usually they just buy their own bonds, sometimes they'd just buy random other shit though. Just any form if capital that wasn't too dishcloth to liquidate eventually.
This managed to keep the economy from going into a great depression. Instead of everyone being unemployed were all cashiers and rant and Healthcare costs our whole paycheck. So we have to take on land to keep living, which is great, we're driving the whole economy like that, it would collapse without someone spending beyond their means to make up for all the billionaires hoarding ludicrous sums and living like kings just scraping off the interest. If someone is saving in the economy, there has to be debt elsewhere. It is math.
1 LongPostBot 2020-03-09
You can type 10,000 characters and you decided that these were the one's that you wanted.
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1 collectijism 2020-03-09
Keynecels need to be matched to the guilotinne first
1 DrunkAngryPelosi 2020-03-09
Print Nigger Print Nigger Print Nigger Print Nigger Print Nigger Print Nigger Print Nigger Print Nigger Print Nigger Print Nigger.
1 AndemanMan 2020-03-09
this is the only viable dem candidate
1 watermark1917 2020-03-09
Modern developed economies just don't give af, negative interest rates, fuck yeah, let's make credit worth more than savings. You can print all the money you want and people are too depressed to even bother with inflation. It doesn't make things any better, but it doesn't make it any worse either. Instead of withdrawing your money from the bank and sticking it under your mattress, the fed can just print money for you to stick under your mattress. That way you can keep your money in the bank. Or maybe you just have twice as much money under your mattress.
The monetary and banking system - it's all bad. There's a lot of sausage making, there is no beautiful trick in there. The more you learn about it, the more it's just like holy shit. Like I'm 99% sure the first person who started doing this intended to be doing a fraud, and was just stunned when it kept going on and became a legit profession. I mean what else when you start printing notes that say "I'll give you gold for this", and just go ahead and print a shit ton more than you actually have gold to redeem in the hope they won't actually be redeemed. And when you give out a loan, you just add some numbers to that person's ledger, and you also add some numbers to your own. You create a piece of paper saying that that guy is gonna give you X much of those notes in the future, the notes which represent gold that you don't actually have, and you add that value to your own account. That cancels itself out right, I did an add and subtract, so it should be good. Boom, you've just gained money by giving it away.
Used to treat my mattress like the ATM
Bond number 9 that's my favorite scent
Can't forget the kush I'm talking OG
Rest in peace to pop he was an OG
1 LongPostBot 2020-03-09
Your pulitzer's in the mail
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1 thowaway_throwaway 2020-03-09
Helicopters solve so many problems.
1 MadrugoticX 2020-03-09
This is actually Fraud but when the government is doing it they call monetary policy.
1 Rational_Meme 2020-03-09
Exactly... Venezuela Print a lot of money to the point the whole country Collapse.. Venezuela migrate to other countries and some die in starvation.