Covid Shutdown - planning

blob. 25-Aug-21 08:25 PM

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/853041288203337738.gif?v=1

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 08:25 PM

Media should be our main focus

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:25 PM

We need a list of common goals/ideas that we want the admins to implement.

Our focus isn't the media.

Stop focusing on the media.

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 08:25 PM

It's the biggest hitting thing we can do

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:25 PM

If we do what we do, the media will follow.

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 08:26 PM

If we get NYT, WAPO, BBC, other acronyms in then we're golden

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:26 PM

If we focus curating the media, we aren't focused on fixing the problem or on actually changing stuff.

NateArcher 25-Aug-21 08:27 PM

I think our main thing we need to do is demand at a bare minimum the removal of NNN

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:27 PM

What we want to do is go to the admins and open a dialogue to produce some changes. We want to come to the table and discuss. We can't force them to do what we want and they have the power to just ignore us. If we focus on the media, our message is lost and the momentum will slow down. What we want to do is have our demands, start the negotiation, and let the media watch.

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 08:27 PM

We should have a few teams maybe, like one for media, one for spez response, one for managing everyone, one for contacting subreddits etc.

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 08:28 PM

I'll assemble a media team

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:28 PM

When the media sees what we're doing, that's when they'll follow up with interviews and dynamics. We can't just bitch at the media and hope that will turn the admins minds.

NateArcher 25-Aug-21 08:29 PM

We would probably only we able to achieve this with going private, working with news, and a discourse with reddit

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 08:29 PM

We can do both at the same time

We have the numbers in here

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:29 PM

We can do both but it means we need a roadmap and we need a plan and we need to be organised.

We need to know what we want and when we want it.

NateArcher 25-Aug-21 08:30 PM

Hopefully we don't need to go private but it needs to be on the table ready to go.

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 08:30 PM

We need to know which subreddits are willing to private

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:31 PM

Every prior protest has had a singular cause, a core idea that resonated with people, and changes that we want to see. It made the protest easy to respond to and we called their bluff by doing it. Being fragmented and unorganised and just cavorting around with the media to express our righteous frustration with Reddit makes us look shabby and disorganised and it won't produce results. (edited)

NateArcher 25-Aug-21 08:31 PM

If we get more media coverage we may be able to force Reddit's hand with out going private

dubteedub 25-Aug-21 08:32 PM

ye

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:32 PM

@TheSebtacular You need to appoint individuals to do different roles. You need a media team. You need a team that co-ordinates out to mod teams, including gathering emails for off site organising if Reddit takes it down/monitors. You need a team that organises what you want and how, preferably with some experience with this kind of thing.

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 08:32 PM

What do we want in order to succeed: Media coverage More/continued traction More top subreddits Proper response to spez Getting users to be passionate along with us

dubteedub 25-Aug-21 08:33 PM

yes

NateArcher

If we get more media coverage we may be able to force Reddit's hand with out going private

NateArcher 25-Aug-21 08:33 PM

It will likely be harder but it does look properly planned out

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 08:33 PM

Working on that, to save me time can you kinda summarize what's happening while I work?

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:34 PM

Sure. Pick your people or let's create a group of people in here who volunteer for these jobs. I'm happy to help you with organisation and co-ordination, if you want.

That's your first rule of organising a protest - get your leadership in place.

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 08:34 PM

Seb probably needs an assistant of some kind

1

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 08:34 PM

That's the server mods

I'll be making media and subreddit outreach

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:35 PM

You got Merari and yourself and Mayo.

BelleAriel 25-Aug-21 08:35 PM

Mayo?

Budlejari

@TheSebtacular You need to appoint individuals to do different roles. You need a media team. You need a team that co-ordinates out to mod teams, including gathering emails for off site organising if Reddit takes it down/monitors. You need a team that organises what you want and how, preferably with some experience with this kind of thing.

NateArcher 25-Aug-21 08:35 PM

Exactly this there needs to be more people at the helm so we are more precise with our actions and help reduce the workload for the server mods

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:35 PM

"I really dislike Mayo."

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 08:36 PM

We also need to know everyone’s (who will be on these teams) time zones and work/school hours

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 08:36 PM

I can sort that out

I'm currently deciding on the media team

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:37 PM

Make sure you get experienced people. Don't be afraid to reach out to people.

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 08:37 PM

I'm going off of people I know well

Due to the spy

ies

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:37 PM

Exactly.

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 08:38 PM

Who do you trust not to be the spy

NateArcher

Exactly this there needs to be more people at the helm so we are more precise with our actions and help reduce the workload for the server mods

NateArcher 25-Aug-21 08:38 PM

I don't doubt that you guys can't do it but you guys don't need to take all the stress, responsibly, and deprive yourself of sleep

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 08:39 PM

Anyone I mod with/talk with regularly

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 08:39 PM

Maybe make a chat for only people you 100000% trust

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 08:40 PM

I'm a bit wary of making a trust chat too large as then people will only talk there

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:40 PM

I would also start processing and gathering emails for all the mod teams that have agreed to sign up. Reddit can read and access all modmails.

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 08:41 PM

I'm getting distracted, I'm gonna make the teams

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:41 PM

It's gonna be a lot of spreadsheets.

So what demands do we have?

- No more NNN knockoffs - Removing more anti-vaxx, anti-masking, anti-COVID denialism - flagging for misinformation - clarifying what misinformation is because right now, it's the most generic report on the planet

For example.

Not saying that's what we want.

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 08:43 PM

Ban subreddits that continually allow dangerous misinformation

Budlejari

Not saying that's what we want.

NateArcher 25-Aug-21 08:43 PM

But it is a start

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:43 PM

Define misinformation.

NateArcher 25-Aug-21 08:44 PM

We need to be exact with what we want down to the letter

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:44 PM

I would like to see concrete and accurate understanding of their removals and what they do with covid denialism etc.

dooodaaad 25-Aug-21 08:44 PM

ban information that is extremely detrimental to public health and saftey

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 08:45 PM

Transparency about what they have done to combat misinformation thus far and in the future

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:45 PM

Again, define this. What defines the difference between personal opinions, "I don't trust the gubbermint!" and "you should drink bleach!"

clambake 25-Aug-21 08:46 PM

it would be nice if reddit implemented a feature similar to the one you see on facebook that greys out misinformation links and gives an alert that the link may contain misinformation

dooodaaad 25-Aug-21 08:46 PM

thats basically what quarantining is (edited)

NateArcher 25-Aug-21 08:46 PM

I think a basic requirement is not allow for posts saying to stop covid you need to inject livestock worm remover

dooodaaad 25-Aug-21 08:46 PM

lmao yeah

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 08:47 PM

Or anything that isn’t approved by the FDA or CDC

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:47 PM

So if we say "we don't want these posts allowed!" What does that look like? Do we want more swift admin actions on this? Do we want a commitment for them t oprovide an inbox so we can report these to a human being?

Lauren_ev

Or anything that isn’t approved by the FDA or CDC

NateArcher 25-Aug-21 08:48 PM

we should also include other agencies such as WHO (edited)

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 08:48 PM

Definitely more swift admin actions and a simpler way to report to admins

NateArcher

we should also include other agencies such as WHO (edited)

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 08:48 PM

Yes forgot about that one

hockey 25-Aug-21 08:48 PM

Spez mentioned authorizative sources, like the CDC, so that’s a great place to start. So in theory, ivermectin would be banned as it runs contrary to CDC guidance.

Demand a list of authoritative sources from Spez and Reddit. Who are they and how do we hold the community accountable to them?

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:49 PM

Okay, so a good thing would maybe a list of concrete things that do count as misinformation or harmful such as advocating for unproven treatments that against CDC/FDA/WHO rules, and for behaviors that have been defined as perpetuating the spread of COVID, like anti-masking. (edited)

Budlejari

Okay, so a good thing would maybe a list of concrete things that do count as misinformation or harmful such as advocating for unproven treatments that against CDC/FDA/WHO rules, and for behaviors that have been defined as perpetuating the spread of COVID, like anti-masking. (edited)

NateArcher 25-Aug-21 08:50 PM

I think we need to start with unproven treatments and the vaccine, then work on masks

hockey 25-Aug-21 08:51 PM

Is Canada’s health agency an authoritative source? Is the UK’s? What about Nigeria’s? Or Saudi Arabia’s? For this to work, you will need to really flesh out what constitutes authoritative sources from Reddit. You need a very specific and narrow answer.

If they cannot commit to that, then you have cause to go to the media and point out the hypocrisy

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:52 PM

That's our goal. If we want them to do something ,the thing we want to hit the media is their 'no' to our very reasonable, very clear demands that are for the public good.

clambake 25-Aug-21 08:52 PM

surprisingly a lot of misinformation is posted in the form of an image meme on the NNN sub, rather than links

NateArcher 25-Aug-21 08:53 PM

We also need to make it clear we are not trying to change the idiotic beliefs of anti-vax maskers we just want to stop Reddit being a place to discuss such misinformation.

hockey 25-Aug-21 08:53 PM

Yes but figure those sources out first. Have a hard list ready, don’t share it with anyone, or Reddit. See how it compares to Reddit’s definition.

clambake

surprisingly a lot of misinformation is posted in the form of an image meme on the NNN sub, rather than links

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:53 PM

Probably to get around filters and to be more pervasive.

hockey 25-Aug-21 08:53 PM

I recommend you all have a group to handle that specific area because that’s going to open up a doorway to getting Reddit to commit.

hockey

Is Canada’s health agency an authoritative source? Is the UK’s? What about Nigeria’s? Or Saudi Arabia’s? For this to work, you will need to really flesh out what constitutes authoritative sources from Reddit. You need a very specific and narrow answer.

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 08:53 PM

Reddit is an American company, their sources should at the very least be widely known by American users

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:54 PM

I believe last tme I checked around 50% of all traffic is American.

But I might be wrong.

Lauren_ev

Reddit is an American company, their sources should at the very least be widely known by American users

NateArcher 25-Aug-21 08:54 PM

So the basics would be CDC and FDA

Lauren_ev

Reddit is an American company, their sources should at the very least be widely known by American users

hockey 25-Aug-21 08:54 PM

With foreign investments. So while they are American, they don’t subscribe entirely to American tenets.

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:54 PM

hockey 25-Aug-21 08:54 PM

They’ve acknowledged this with how they’ve handled foreign subreddits like Hong Kong.

Budlejari

- No more NNN knockoffs - Removing more anti-vaxx, anti-masking, anti-COVID denialism - flagging for misinformation - clarifying what misinformation is because right now, it's the most generic report on the planet

dubteedub 25-Aug-21 08:54 PM

stop letting people advocate for taking horse paste

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 08:55 PM

WHO is probably best

NateArcher 25-Aug-21 08:55 PM

WHO is not the greatest due to them not having much governing ability

hockey 25-Aug-21 08:56 PM

Just demand a narrow definition. And ask if they’ll be held accountable to it.

NateArcher

WHO is not the greatest due to them not having much governing ability

NateArcher 25-Aug-21 08:57 PM

But should still be included

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 08:57 PM

We don’t have to decide for Reddit, we just have to demand a decision

hockey 25-Aug-21 08:57 PM

As it stands right now, US, UK, and Canada are leading the charge for vaccination protocols.

I think Germany has been testing out different treatments but I don’t remember how current that is.

Israel to the first list as well.

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 08:59 PM

So we want more transparency, and we want more defined definitions of misinformation, and we also want standards to point to when discussing misinformation.

And we want to also see the hotbeds of COVID misinformation removed, right?

hockey 25-Aug-21 09:00 PM

The main issue I see is that there’s no standard for misinformation because there is nothing to hold misinformation against.

dubteedub 25-Aug-21 09:01 PM

go with FDA / CDC recommendations

FDA has said dont take Ivermectin

CDC says wear a mask and get vaccinated

hockey 25-Aug-21 09:02 PM

Okay. What about information outside the scope of those two agencies? Like mixed dosing?

I’m just giving an example.

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 09:03 PM

The thing is that doesn’t directly contrast to the FDA or CDC

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 09:03 PM

But is that our problem?

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 09:04 PM

Whereas people spewing about ivermectin is directly opposing FDA information

1

hockey 25-Aug-21 09:04 PM

It should be your problem as it’s becoming more of a popular recommendation. UK, for example, is refusing mixed doses travellers. At one point, the US did the same.

Lauren_ev

Whereas people spewing about ivermectin is directly opposing FDA information

hockey 25-Aug-21 09:05 PM

Right, I’m asking you to see the bigger picture. You’re fixated on one subreddit and issue. The misinformation issue is greater than that.

Lauren_ev 25-Aug-21 09:06 PM

That’s not our problem to solve though, it’s Reddit’s job to make the informed decisions, we are just making sure they do

dubteedub 25-Aug-21 09:07 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/22/cdc-changes-covid-vaccine-guidance-to-ok-mixing-pfizer-and-moderna-shots-in-exceptional-si.html

CDC quietly changes Covid vaccine guidance to OK mixing Pfizer and ...

The CDC says the two products are not interchangeable, but it added in updated guidance posted Thursday that it's OK to mix the shots in rare circumstances.

Cdc is okay with mixing vaccones

Lauren_ev

That’s not our problem to solve though, it’s Reddit’s job to make the informed decisions, we are just making sure they do

hockey 25-Aug-21 09:15 PM

The point is to explain the standard of what is an authoritative source so you can create a dragnet that captures as much misinformation as possible.

clambake 25-Aug-21 09:17 PM

I would like to point out that in the Clade X Pandemic exercise conducted in 2018, they did discover that combatting misinformation about their (albeit fictional and much worse) virus was an important aspect in dealing with the pandemic, so instituting controls for misinformation is literally something that was decided as important (edited)

that article is from 2018 and even then they knew what a risk misinformation could be during a pandemic

hockey 25-Aug-21 09:18 PM

That’s an excellent source. It would be worth adding to the list of demands on its own.

To support the case.

clambake 25-Aug-21 09:18 PM

here are my sources https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/05/30/this-mock-pandemic-killed-150-million-people-next-time-it-might-not-be-a-drill/

so none of what we want is unprecedented

https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-work/events/2018_clade_x_exercise/pdfs/Clade-X-exercise-presentation-slides.pdf

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 09:20 PM

It's good if we can point to things that have sourceable information and authority behind them.

clambake 25-Aug-21 09:20 PM

i don’t have an exact time stamp but here is the complete study where they do mention combatting misinformation

https://youtu.be/-4xiQHv4Y20

centerforhealthsecurity

Clade X Pandemic Exercise: Segment 2

hockey 25-Aug-21 09:22 PM

Anyway, I’m just a random mod from CanadaCoronavirus but I wanted to just check in and see how things were. If there’s anything I can do to help, let me know. I’ll try my best to give insight/help where I can. Misinformation is truly the greatest plague on humanity. (edited)

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 09:23 PM

I would like to see a list of subs that qualify for 'misinformation hotbeds'.

If we give them (and the media) a list of subs for them to see, it's a much easier ask to say "ban them", too.

hwhouston517 25-Aug-21 10:30 PM

So, important stuff goes here. Less important stuff in #general. Irrelevant stuff to the protest or off-topic shitposting goes in #off-topic. (edited)

Original message was deleted or could not be loaded.

hwhouston517 25-Aug-21 10:30 PM

Pinned a message.

vortex 25-Aug-21 10:32 PM

I once again would like to encourage immediate action. The longer that this goes without doing something the more likely it is that this will fade away, like the admins want it to.

If you want to succeed, that is.

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:32 PM

Instead of pressuring admins to make the changes, we can influence the users. Our main goal should be to make users think that misinformation really kills and is bad for everyone. We can do this by various things such as 1) Writings about misinformation 2) Sarcastic jokes about misinformation, that directly defame it

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:32 PM

No.

That's not going to work.

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:32 PM

admins can just remove us if they want to lmao

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:32 PM

It hasn't worked for months.

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:33 PM

i dont know where you guys are heading off to (edited)

killthekaiser 25-Aug-21 10:33 PM

Our best bet is to take advantage of the fact that NNN only has one active mod

hwhouston517 25-Aug-21 10:33 PM

Redditors generally don’t care tbh

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:33 PM

admins will think we are the problem

killthekaiser 25-Aug-21 10:33 PM

the chew dude

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:33 PM

they will remove us

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:33 PM

We need to act quickly and decisively. Not immediately but definitely by Friday evening

hwhouston517

Redditors generally don’t care tbh

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:33 PM

and we need to make them care, make this a meme

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:33 PM

Or we'll lose media momentum, too.

kewlbro

and we need to make them care, make this a meme

hwhouston517 25-Aug-21 10:33 PM

If that could work I totally support it lol

Powerchicken 25-Aug-21 10:33 PM

Could we reach a overall consensus on whether the subreddits should be restricted or not? Some subreddits are, some aren't, and it seems fairly meaningless for those which are restricted to remain so if the big subs run by the "organiser" of the protest are not.

killthekaiser 25-Aug-21 10:33 PM

if you sshoot at the king, you have no choice but to kill him

hwhouston517 25-Aug-21 10:33 PM

The sad thing is that most people will think this is a political issue

killthekaiser 25-Aug-21 10:34 PM

same with NNN

hwhouston517

If that could work I totally support it lol

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:34 PM

it takes patience, which i see many people lack here

hwhouston517 25-Aug-21 10:34 PM

Unlike the last protest, which was one sided.

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:34 PM

yep

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:34 PM

It hasn't worked in months.

It is not going to work now.

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:34 PM

they had a reason to remove aimee, but they dont have a reason to ban NNN here

killthekaiser 25-Aug-21 10:34 PM

it worked with challenor

hwhouston517 25-Aug-21 10:34 PM

Personally, I don’t think it will work because it’s too serious of an issue.

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:34 PM

i can see why blank refused to come here

blank knew well

killthekaiser 25-Aug-21 10:34 PM

plus NNN has gotten previous newss articles written about them

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 10:35 PM

Blank didn't support it and didn't think it would work

TheSebtacular

Blank didn't support it and didn't think it would work

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:35 PM

because he supports things to be done gradually

he knows how to make a protest work

goblin 25-Aug-21 10:35 PM

giving in to protests twice proves that the community can band together and change pretty much whatever they want with the site through protests, the admins obviously won’t want that

hwhouston517 25-Aug-21 10:35 PM

He was wrong that it wouldn’t pick up, he was right in that the admins would do nothing about it.

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:35 PM

Making memes about COVID denialism and Reddit isn't going to change anything. Reddit has been doing that for months, and NNN proliferated both in itself and in copycats.

killthekaiser 25-Aug-21 10:35 PM

If we cant rely on admins then the only thing we can do is rely on ourselves I do think we can somehow get teh NNN mod to private/kill the subreddit

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 10:35 PM

No, he just doesn't support it

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:35 PM

the admins can just take our mod powers if they think we are an problem (edited)

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 10:35 PM

Like at all

hwhouston517 25-Aug-21 10:35 PM

Tbh, I’m pretty surprised the admins would fire their employee over banning a fucking subreddit.

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:36 PM

NNN is a cashcow to them

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:36 PM

We need a clear, decisive plan, with goals and targets.

Pulling the plug is our final playing card, and not one we should be using straight away.

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:38 PM

We have three ways: a) Protest straight on friday and try to get most of the subs dark. This is risky as the admin's opinions on us could change and endanger our mod position. b) Go through it gradually and try to influence the thinking of your average user, so they can push for it. c)Leave it.

I hope you guys can see the problem

Good luck

killthekaiser 25-Aug-21 10:39 PM

c aint an option tbh

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:39 PM

options are always good for all

we are going to deal with this in one blow or gradually

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:39 PM

1. Give list of demands to admins and open the negotiations. 2. If they refuse to negotiate, go to the media. 3. If they still refuse to move, go dark. End result: we've tried to be reasonable, we've shown our work, we've shown our goal is caring and working at this together, not just demanding.

If Reddit refuses to move, it puts the onus and blame on them, not us.

Budlejari

1. Give list of demands to admins and open the negotiations. 2. If they refuse to negotiate, go to the media. 3. If they still refuse to move, go dark. End result: we've tried to be reasonable, we've shown our work, we've shown our goal is caring and working at this together, not just demanding.

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:39 PM

They listened and responded, we are on step 3

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:40 PM

They did not.

And we are not.

That was an opening salvo, not a list of comphrensive requests and organised protest.

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:41 PM

I doubt they will listen us, seeing how much time they took to just deliver a response to the general public

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:42 PM

They took five hours.

Let's not overplay that.

vortex 25-Aug-21 10:43 PM

five hours is good time

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:44 PM

24 hours would have been pushing it but 5 hours in corporate time is pretty darn speedy.

kewlbro

I doubt they will listen us, seeing how much time they took to just deliver a response to the general public

poptart2nd 25-Aug-21 10:44 PM

we won't know unless we try.

poptart2nd

we won't know unless we try.

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:44 PM

and if we fail, the admins will think of us as an problem and will work to try to demod us

i am all for trying, but the risk is too much

poptart2nd 25-Aug-21 10:45 PM

they won't demod us for trying to negotiate

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:45 PM

if we lose our mod positions tommorow, we wont be able to do anything about this issue

poptart2nd 25-Aug-21 10:45 PM

just because they can be tyrannical dickheads doesn't mean it's in their best interest to do so

poptart2nd

they won't demod us for trying to negotiate

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:45 PM

personally, I am not going to be a part of the negotiation, good luck

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:45 PM

Okay.

Anyway.

Can we find a list of subreddits that we want to have removed that are hotbeds of misinformation?

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:46 PM

There is a failure to think in what is known as realpolitic.

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:46 PM

Having that is also an objective measure that would be useful for us to give them.

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:46 PM

Reddit is not going to just start banning subs because a bunch of other subs demand it. It sets a terrible precedent form their point of view.

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:46 PM

Exactly.

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:47 PM

So a more realistic, less naive solution needs to be presented.

to give them an out.

No one gave them an out.

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:47 PM

Or at least quarantined as a product of misinformation?

poptart2nd 25-Aug-21 10:47 PM

they already quarantined it

killthekaiser 25-Aug-21 10:47 PM

lets be honest, reddit admins only care about money, so we try to present this as a buisness issue as well

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 10:47 PM

WOOOOOOOOOOO I GOT CALLED A NAZI

davis_schina 25-Aug-21 10:47 PM

They need to quarantine r/ivermectin

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 10:47 PM

Ignore me

killthekaiser 25-Aug-21 10:47 PM

how NNN is terrible for their revenue stream

killthekaiser

lets be honest, reddit admins only care about money, so we try to present this as a buisness issue as well

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:47 PM

thats not true

way too simplistic of a viewpoint

TheSebtacular

WOOOOOOOOOOO I GOT CALLED A NAZI

davis_schina 25-Aug-21 10:47 PM

Reddit™️

TheSebtacular

WOOOOOOOOOOO I GOT CALLED A NAZI

NateArcher 25-Aug-21 10:48 PM

Hell yeah welcome to the club!

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:48 PM

You're tying their hands and not giving them options.

TheSebtacular

WOOOOOOOOOOO I GOT CALLED A NAZI

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 10:48 PM

i disagree with you, so you are a nazi

BuckRowdy

thats not true

killthekaiser 25-Aug-21 10:49 PM

bruh these are the people who let r/jailbait stay up

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:50 PM

Some of those people are still around, but reddit is not the same company it was in 2012.

BuckRowdy

You're tying their hands and not giving them options.

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:50 PM

This is exactly right. If we want to get them to our side, we can't try to force them into a corner. They own the house. There are no corners they can't get out of.

BuckRowdy

You're tying their hands and not giving them options.

poptart2nd 25-Aug-21 10:50 PM

so what are the options we could give them

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:50 PM

One option could be some type of misinformation warning label similar to other social media.

I don't know what all the options are, because I haven't given it a lot of thought.

But it seems like no one here has either.

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:51 PM

I have.

poptart2nd 25-Aug-21 10:51 PM

yeah we kinda banked on admins caving immediately

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:51 PM

I'm just saying that demanding the sub be banned by X date is terribly naive.

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:51 PM

And aggressive. They said no. So now what do we do? Call their bluff? What happens if they stick the course?

TheSebtacular

WOOOOOOOOOOO I GOT CALLED A NAZI

goblin 25-Aug-21 10:51 PM

r/mademesmile

Budlejari

And aggressive. They said no. So now what do we do? Call their bluff? What happens if they stick the course?

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:52 PM

right. No one thought about that so there was no plan. And that's why this will fail.

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:52 PM

I think a big one is that we need a definition of misinformation when it comes to COVID and how they are applying it. And a public disclosure of what information they are flushing. Also, it would be nice to see an additional option for specifically COVID denialism and false treatments. (edited)

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:52 PM

You've played your entire hand. Reddit said "no". What now?

Budlejari

I think a big one is that we need a definition of misinformation when it comes to COVID and how they are applying it. And a public disclosure of what information they are flushing. Also, it would be nice to see an additional option for specifically COVID denialism and false treatments. (edited)

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:52 PM

That's a good start.

femilip 25-Aug-21 10:53 PM

Tbh a lot more subs are angrier now it feels like

If they weren't for a protest before it feels like they are now

femilip

If they weren't for a protest before it feels like they are now

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:53 PM

Ok, so now would be the time to make sure it's effective and coordinated.

4

poptart2nd 25-Aug-21 10:53 PM

the issue is, you can't have a hard and fast rule about what qualifies as misinformation because the people who want to spread misinformation will find a way to euphemism treadmill their way around it (edited)

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:53 PM

but you have to start somewhere

poptart2nd

the issue is, you can't have a hard and fast rule about what qualifies as misinformation because the people who want to spread misinformation will find a way to euphemism treadmill their way around it (edited)

langis_on 25-Aug-21 10:53 PM

That's how I explained it on /r/maryland

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 10:54 PM

You can have a start and you can give examples that won't be allowed or that would require review.

"I know it when I see it," is a good definition surprisingly but you still need to give some kind of rough frame work around it.

For example, do they count talking about anti-masking conspiracies as misinformation or just false treatmnets?

goblin 25-Aug-21 10:56 PM

I think we need reddit to clarify what their definition of misinformation is

goblin

I think we need reddit to clarify what their definition of misinformation is

poptart2nd 25-Aug-21 10:56 PM

this could be a good demand, tbh

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:56 PM

Someone should take it upon themselves to gather up the ideas shared here and put them into a coherent form.

goblin 25-Aug-21 10:56 PM

I think the post saying they won’t get rid of nnn is gone

poptart2nd 25-Aug-21 10:56 PM

"if nonewnormal and /r/ivermectin do not meet the definition of 'misinformation' that you explicitly said you'd be working to combat, then what does?"

goblin 25-Aug-21 10:56 PM

I can’t find it on spez’s profile

poptart2nd

"if nonewnormal and /r/ivermectin do not meet the definition of 'misinformation' that you explicitly said you'd be working to combat, then what does?"

goblin 25-Aug-21 10:57 PM

Yeah

BuckRowdy

Someone should take it upon themselves to gather up the ideas shared here and put them into a coherent form.

langis_on 25-Aug-21 10:57 PM

The main goal should be "vaccines are safe and effective", "masks are better than no masks", stop taking fucking livestock medications

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:57 PM

did you report it?

it;s there https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/pbmy5y/debate_dissent_and_protest_on_reddit/

r/announcements - Debate, dissent, and protest on Reddit

0 votes and 1 comment so far on Reddit

langis_on

The main goal should be "vaccines are safe and effective", "masks are better than no masks", stop taking fucking livestock medications

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:57 PM

ok

maybe a little less agressive

BuckRowdy

it;s there https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/pbmy5y/debate_dissent_and_protest_on_reddit/

goblin 25-Aug-21 10:57 PM

Idk why I couldn’t find it before (edited)

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:58 PM

I agree with you. I'm just trying to help make this more effective because I see a lack of leadership.

poptart2nd 25-Aug-21 10:58 PM

seb definitely seems new at managing this many people (no offense; i couldn't do any better)

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:58 PM

no knock on them. This is hard.

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 10:59 PM

What do you suggest I change?

I'm trying not to intervene too much but management kinda feels out of my hands at this point

clambake 25-Aug-21 10:59 PM

do you think spez has a button that he presses that automatically adds a hundred awards to anything he posts (edited)

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 10:59 PM

Just think a list of reasonable demands should be worked up about what action would be realistic for reddit to take.

2

langis_on 25-Aug-21 11:01 PM

This is my biggest issue. These subreddits are very obviously not acting in good faith

This includes conversations that question or disagree with popular consensus

poptart2nd 25-Aug-21 11:01 PM

well, the fact that we had no plan if the admins said no, and the indecision afterwards, shows me a lack of experience in dealing with politics. it doesn't really matter if you "have control" of everyone; people are still looking to you for guidance on what to do from here. maybe you make a call and it turns out bad, but that's leadership. figure out what went wrong and try harder next time

3

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 11:01 PM

And appoint group leaders - in every emergency, give people a task to do - and give them tasks.

You have a media group.

Those people are in charge of contacting the media.

BuckRowdy 25-Aug-21 11:02 PM

Definitely need a division of labor.

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 11:02 PM

Now pick a mod and have them discuss the plan for what the demands are. They don't have to decide it themselves but they're polling the crowd and getting concrete things on paper.

poptart2nd 25-Aug-21 11:02 PM

media liason, subreddit liason, admin liason

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 11:02 PM

And creating a space where they're drawing information out from just the general morass of anger and frustration.

poptart2nd

well, the fact that we had no plan if the admins said no, and the indecision afterwards, shows me a lack of experience in dealing with politics. it doesn't really matter if you "have control" of everyone; people are still looking to you for guidance on what to do from here. maybe you make a call and it turns out bad, but that's leadership. figure out what went wrong and try harder next time

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 11:03 PM

That’s good advice that I will take

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 11:03 PM

You need a communication liason who keeps track of everybody and where people are going - what's happening in each 'team' and sharing it so everybody's on the same page. (edited)

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 11:03 PM

Thanks

Also teams

I think one or two more will be good

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 11:04 PM

I feel like a lot of the protests in the past have been quick burners - a single issue that was fairly narrow and well defined. This is much bigger and the admins have dug their heels in.

So by definition, it's a more complicated thing to do.

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 11:04 PM

I think a public relations team and an admin response team could work. I’ll think about the admin response one a bit more but the public relations is a must

@goblin Hey you’re popular, wanna help with public relations?

TheSebtacular

I think a public relations team and an admin response team could work. I’ll think about the admin response one a bit more but the public relations is a must

langis_on 25-Aug-21 11:05 PM

If there is a PR team, they should reach out to news orgs that have already reported on this issue to help ajar ethe message

TheSebtacular

@goblin Hey you’re popular, wanna help with public relations?

goblin 25-Aug-21 11:05 PM

What should I do

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 11:05 PM

It would entail answering questions and stuff like that

We have a media team

PR would be for users

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 11:06 PM

And tl:dr in updates regularly on where we're going. You have a lot of users on a lot of timezones.

TheSebtacular

It would entail answering questions and stuff like that

goblin 25-Aug-21 11:07 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/19684/comments/pbgnp8/why_r196_is_privating/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf I made this post on one of my subreddits a few hours ago

r/19684 - Why r/196 is privating

60 votes and 16 comments so far on Reddit

Budlejari

And tl:dr in updates regularly on where we're going. You have a lot of users on a lot of timezones.

poptart2nd 25-Aug-21 11:07 PM

posts in the subreddit would be good for this

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 11:07 PM

That’s a good post, this would require more work though

You good with that?

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 11:08 PM

I keep saying this but it needs sayign - we need to make sure that we have contact info for each mod team for each subreddit that is taking part (at least your biggest ones) because right now, Reddit controls that flow of information. If they did end up banning users like you or removing posts in the name of 'safety', then all that information is lost or at least frustratingly hard to get to.

Especially given that we know they can and do edit posts as admins to change the content. (edited)

killthekaiser 25-Aug-21 11:09 PM

@TheSebtacular you were saying something about making an article or something

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 11:09 PM

Like media?

Not sure what you mean

TheSebtacular

You good with that?

goblin 25-Aug-21 11:10 PM

Yeah probably but I’m about to go to bed, I can try to do something in the morning

TheSebtacular

Not sure what you mean

killthekaiser 25-Aug-21 11:10 PM

you were asking for people with media experience

I write opinion articles for a non profit under my IRL name

goblin

Yeah probably but I’m about to go to bed, I can try to do something in the morning

goblin 25-Aug-21 11:10 PM

Also I’m not as active on discord then on Reddit so I’ll probably respond to Reddit DMs faster

goblin

Yeah probably but I’m about to go to bed, I can try to do something in the morning

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 11:10 PM

Cool, I’ll sort this out then

I’ll find a way to keep you up to date

Night

goblin 25-Aug-21 11:11 PM

K

Night

killthekaiser

you were asking for people with media experience

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 11:11 PM

I phrased that poorly

Meant like contacts

killthekaiser 25-Aug-21 11:11 PM

bru

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 11:12 PM

I also would like to see Reddit providing explicit backing to moderators to remove and ban users for spreading misinformation.

Based on their definition of 'misinformation' in part a.

Because if they've publically stated they won't pull subs themselves, then we need the backing to moderate our subs.

Budlejari

I also would like to see Reddit providing explicit backing to moderators to remove and ban users for spreading misinformation.

langis_on 25-Aug-21 11:13 PM

We've had a user make about a dozen alts to spread bullshit that we've banned and reported every single one. They don't give a shit

poptart2nd

well, the fact that we had no plan if the admins said no, and the indecision afterwards, shows me a lack of experience in dealing with politics. it doesn't really matter if you "have control" of everyone; people are still looking to you for guidance on what to do from here. maybe you make a call and it turns out bad, but that's leadership. figure out what went wrong and try harder next time

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 11:13 PM

Related to this I’ll be taking a more commanding role

Passive moderation doesn’t seem to work as well especially in situations like this

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 11:14 PM

Nope. You got a lot of people who are very angry and who want results.

Malachi_Noel3 25-Aug-21 11:14 PM

@TheSebtacular I would like to work on the PR

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 11:14 PM

Gotta steer that energy into the process you want, or they'll steer you or leave because they don't feel recognised. (edited)

3

Malachi_Noel3

@TheSebtacular I would like to work on the PR

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 11:17 PM

On a scale of 10 how hated would you say you are (edited)

Malachi_Noel3 25-Aug-21 11:17 PM

Currently, 1

I have 0 reputation with users

Outside of one harasser

Malachi_Noel3

I have 0 reputation with users

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 11:18 PM

Better than crazy high and hated

I’ll add you

Malachi_Noel3 25-Aug-21 11:18 PM

Epic

hwhouston517 25-Aug-21 11:18 PM

I’m a solid 3 or 4

Someone like N8 would be about an 8 or 9

Malachi_Noel3 25-Aug-21 11:19 PM

Yeah

GB would be 10

I am 1

hwhouston517 25-Aug-21 11:19 PM

lol yup

So would awkward

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 11:19 PM

Awkward’s a 10

No question

Malachi_Noel3 25-Aug-21 11:20 PM

Yes, not the best candidate for PR

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 11:20 PM

Either unknown people or super popular people are the best

Budlejari

Gotta steer that energy into the process you want, or they'll steer you or leave because they don't feel recognised. (edited)

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 11:20 PM

That’s what I’ll be attempting to do

Malachi_Noel3 25-Aug-21 11:21 PM

I am unknown, but I had previous experience modding defaults, so I think that’s a really good mix

hwhouston517

Someone like N8 would be about an 8 or 9

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 11:21 PM

Wonder what Merari would be.

Maybe a 9.5?

Malachi_Noel3 25-Aug-21 11:22 PM

Eh

I’d say 7

TheSebtacular

Either unknown people or super popular people are the best

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 11:22 PM

I'll throw my hat into the ring if that's okay?

GB is like a 20.

He's the definition of "you hate what I do but you still engage."

Anyway. M'bad.

Malachi_Noel3 25-Aug-21 11:24 PM

What’s the plan for the pr? Should we be keeping people updated on our plans? We have to keep the subs that are on the list but not in the server up to date

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 11:25 PM

Maybe there should also be a focus on keep pushing the message out, too. Ask people to contact their sister subs or subs in the same field.

I know a lot of more niche subs don't have a lot of contact with the 'wider reddit community'.

Like in k-pop, the last time there was a shut down, we still had people messaging us a week after going, "what happened?2

TheSebtacular 25-Aug-21 11:28 PM

I intend for it to mostly be keeping an eye on the announcement threads and responding to questions

hwhouston517 25-Aug-21 11:34 PM

Well, we’re just stuck in mud here it seems. Imma head to bed.

davis_schina 25-Aug-21 11:34 PM

sleep well

Budlejari 25-Aug-21 11:35 PM

Me, too.

It's 4:35 am.

Hope something happens in the morning.

And it's not "you're all fired."

1

Powerchicken 25-Aug-21 11:36 PM

Getting fired would be a blessing

Finally being done with reddit? I could finally get my life in order!

Heading to bed too.

kewlbro 25-Aug-21 11:39 PM

Have come to a meaningful conclusion? Can anyone pin the conclusion if it has been discussed? Thanks

Powerchicken

Getting fired would be a blessing

langis_on 26-Aug-21 12:22 AM

I'd be a blessing to each of us if they'd remove us from our mod positions tbh. Preventing their subreddit from becoming 4chan for free