Butthurt because /r/upliftingnews raised money for the BLMKidnapping victim. Brave SRD users are sure that the same redditors actively fund the legal defense of any white male who ever kills a black person.

270  2017-01-12 by BannedFromImzy

231 comments

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I'd just like to take this opportunity to promote the motto of /r/drama:

"Do your part to keep our community healthy by blowing everything out of proportion and making literally everything as dramatic as possible."

/u/upliftingnews aka /u/razorsheldon is STILL a whiny little twatwaffle who can't take having his fee fees hurt by the big bad interwebs. Delete your accounts.

I think raped only posted the comment because they wanted to apply the rule in /srd too.

thank you for saying this because I too find it telling.

Comments like this give me literal Fucking aids

Sigh.

Time to raise money again.

Time to raise money again.

Well, dont you sound like a Nazi.

Whoa whoa! Pump the fucking brakes. He white or?

You should contribute to my gofund me then.

It's sort of like this except I use the money for cigs, beer, tattoos, and hardcore pornography. I promise you, not one cent will go towards anything aside from these, especially not any charity.

U/rguin see what you did? Your dumb fuck comment is hurting people, pay up.

Dammit, /u/rguin see what you did? Your dumb fuck comment is hurting people, pay up.

I will donate to your AIDS. do you take bitcoin fam?

Wait a minute - are you white? Because, if so, I know where you can get some major donations to help pay for your treatment

SIGH unzips

I let out a good audible "Ugh." when I read that.

thank you for saying this because I too find it telling.

Every. Fucking. Time.

MUST VIRTUE SIGNAL

If you liked that, you'll love this:

Thank you. That's it, this is reality. I really feel that under the law we are viewed as disposable and presumed guilty and time and time again it's proven.This should have a thousand upvotes. If I were able I'd gild this comment.

Something something oppression, something something historical guilt, something something power plus privilege,, something something you're a crypto racist if you disagree

You’re not wrong.

Just the other day, there’s an opinion piece by a black Canadian activist regarding accusation of rape where accused is black and accuser is white.

She actually wrote this:

The victim is a white woman and the accused is a Black man, a combination that invokes complex power dynamics and a history of white women using false accusations of rape to rouse lynch mobs against Black men. For many of us Black people, Black men being accused of violence against white women stirs up images of Emmett Till, a Black youth from Mississippi who in 1955 was beaten and shot by two white men after being accused of flirting with a white woman.

From http://news.nationalpost.com/toronto/septembre-anderson-why-ive-been-silent-about-the-andray-domise-allegations

Asylum has been taken over.

Black men being accused of violence against white women stirs up images of Emmett Till, a Black youth from Mississippi who in 1955

Oh yes. Back when Canada and the US were one country and Canada had Jim Crow laws and thought black people were only three fifths a person.

Wait, none of those things, you say?

black Canadian activist

hohoho

He's the only black man in the Great White North

Wait, so this guy must be innocent of assault since blacks have been mistreated in history? WTF? That's like saying women can't commit credit card fraud because they only recently gained the right to vote.

Oh women can commit crimes, they just shouldn't be punished for crimes.

http://jezebel.com/should-we-stop-putting-women-in-prison-1656085733

Keep in mind that this is a paper that styles itself as right-wing.

The fuck happened to your country fam

This account is gonna get some milage over the next 4-8 years

8 years

pls no.

Accept President Trump hard, long, throbbing live deep inside you already.

If we judge by those tiny hands, there's nothing hard, long, or throbbing about the PEOTUS.

He explicitly stated there was no problem in the official, televised worldwide, US presidential elections debate.

He would never lie to us so I believe him.

Tbf, that was after Marco Rubio said he had a small dick on live TV....

This may have been the worst election cycle of all time

May have been?

Or the best, depending on your view point.

Definetly the funniest.

lol, that was really what I meant.

Considering what's happening in the DNC right now, by the time 2020 happens they'll be pushing a female version of Robert Mugabe and you'll be begging for Trump.

GET ME THE COLONEL

She's right though.

Dont know about right. I know thats pretty racist though.

You can't be racist toward whitescums.

Oh yea i forgot.

Commenting on the 2017 Chicago torture incident, Sanders expressed that the incident illustrated stupidity but not racism. She argued against the hate crime charges for the alleged perpetrators, stating the incident was more of a political crime than a hate crime.

Sanders later stated that after reviewing the details, she agreed with the hate crime charges, but furthered we're “having the wrong conversation” and should be asking: "how did we get here as a community?"

Jesus Christ. It's like they want trump to win again.

Glass cliff, anyone?

How did we get here as a community?

Democrats running the city for 80 years does that. Praise be to the holy Chicago Democratic Party. Make the colored people your dependas

anti-racists are the REAL racists

this is the most reddit thing I've read today

"Hey guys after losing the election by alienating white voters in key states the dems are doubling down, thats so stupid"

"Lel wow thats soooo fucking roddit"

Have you considered the possibility you're a retard stritch?

That's not why the election was lost, fyi

Yeah, the dems only lost three states that had gone blue since the 80s and coincidentally were full of white union workers who flipped

Right, because dems didn't turn out and republicans did. Shows that dems won't turn out for someone if she's an annoying old lady with a bunch of baggage, but republicans will turn out for a sexually assaulting traitor so long as it means winning.

REEEEEEEEEEEE

Fuck that. Lol.

  • Trump will never run for President
  • Trump will never be the GOP nominee for President
  • Trump will never be President <--------------------
  • Trump will never have his face on Mt. Rushmore
  • Trump will never be re-elected President
  • Trump will never be all five faces on Mt. Rushmore
  • Trump will never be proclaimed God-Emperor and build legions of fanatical Space Marines to purge the heretics and protect us from the horrors of the Warp

pls no.

Who else can protect us from the Warp?

OUR LORD AND SAVIOR BERN....

No. I can't do it. Ya'll are fucked.

Ya'll

Do you not know how contractions work? In the words of Clarence Thomas, "Bitch, is you stupid?"

Contractions make no sense anymore. THAT'S HOW FUCKED YOU ARE.

You all

SORRY FOR NOT BEING UP ON MY SOUTHERN HICK SLANG OMG.

I'm Canadian and I know that.

I like saying y'all're

You could have prevented this and it is nkw too late.

However, in your hands you still have the ability to prevent Trump from winning again in 4 years and you only have to do one, teeny, tiny thing: unban from from SRD so I can shitpost there again until the account known as /u/Assy-McGee gets deleted or banned by rettiturds like /u/redtaboo or /u/drunken_economist

Bernie would have submitted to /#WarpedLivesMatter

I CAN FEEL THE WARP OVERTAKING ME

IT IS A GOOD PAIN

GORK AN' MORK'LL KRUMP ANY AN' ALL'A DEM WARPY GITS IN DA FOINEST WAAAGH!!! WE EVA DID SEE!

ill take the warp

Downvoted for insulting the God-Emperor by associating him with a filthy mutant heretic like Trump.

Trump will never be proclaimed God-Emperor and build legions of fanatical Space Marines to purge the heretics and protect us from the horrors of the Warp

I'm pretty sure the horrors of the Warp are already here and fighting for their "rights".

HAES people are the Tyranids.

A hambeast with open bedsores, stinky fungi between the fat rolls, and limbs rotting from diabetes is the closest thing you'll ever see to a champion of Nurgle.

Hobos and fatties are on Nurgle's side. Trannies, pedophiles and queers are from Slaanesh. Take whomever you like for Khorne's minions (lots of bloodthirsty people in the world), but some african warlords would make him proud.

How is

Trump will never have his face on Mt. Rushmore

before

Trump will never be re-elected President

?

Trump Derangement Syndrome is not fully understood.

It's going to be a crazy four years.

We just stopping in the 30th millennium?

I've never sympathized with Primarch Horus so much before.

Considering that he's an outsider with a lot of picks that aren't Washington politicians I feel like congress might not want to work with him similar to what happened to Carter resulting in a 1 term presidency.

Bigly.

It was such a disappointment to see that this account has proper comments. I expected a long list of empty ones :(

Sorry bby. There are plenty of blank ones tho

Lol, even /pol/ raised some funds for a black police officer that was killed by BLM

man so i wasn't sure about BLM, just seemed too moderate, but if they're actually bashin the fash now sign me the fuck up

The issue with Blm since the start of that there's no centralization so basically everyone claims to be part of it and is part of it.

So it ends up including guys like those ones that were stockpiling weapons and black separatists and the ones that rejected seeing freaking with police as a unified and the ones that did that attack in Texas.

Kind of like a much more grim variation of the whole occupy thing.

Yup, it's got a different message depending on who you ask, and there's almost always a difference between their statements and what actually happens. "We just want peace" riots in their town because of BLM

Tea party had literal white nationalists that stockpiled guns and wanted to overthrow the government claiming to be a part of it. It happens on both sides.

Albeit, tea party usa was an actual organization that helped get things running. It splintered over, of course, political disagreements but only the white nationalists themselves and liberals who wanted to attack the right ever viewed them as one in the same

There is leadership to the BLM movement. Despite rhetoric from certain right-wing media sources, they have disavowed the shootings on police officers in their name publicly, for instance.

So what's the difference?

BLM and other liberal protesters took over my city, Portland, OR, for a few days after the election. They blocked highways and transit lines during rush hour and caused hundreds of thousands in property damages to local businesses in the downtown area. And this is all in a county where Trump only got 17.6% of the vote. I don't know if BLM has actually murdered anyone but they are a terrible organization.

What does that have to do with what I'm talking about? That's just a random anecdote. I'm talking about leadership in each organization. As far as I know, the tea party leadership never disavowed white nationalists or violent militia nutjobs. As far as I know and have seen, BLM leadership has disavowed and vehemently disagreed with violence of any sort in their protests. The token examples of the violence that occurs has not a single connection to BLM leadership. Just because their movement that is calling for justice inadvertently gets people violently riled up, blaming them would be like blaming MLK Jr. for the Black Panthers' violent acts in the 60's.

Tea party might've had a lot of racisists but as far as I know they never destroyed property or purposely inconvenienced people just trying to get home from work. I'll take the tea party over BLM any day.

its because rednecks don't live in the city

Why would you raise money for a dead guy?

To feel smug.

That's why I post on /r/Drama though, to feel smug about not being smug like the people on SRD.

Funeral cost, supporting family, etc

because they're retards who believe a hashtag they don't like has sprung to life and started killing pigs, and the only way to stop it is market pressure

Autism.

All the black victims of white violence, and not one red cent raised for them by redditors.

The Donald raised money for that black church that was burned down and had "Vote Trump" spray painted on it. And it even turned out to be a black guy and member of that own church's congregation later.

Tfw you donate money to a retarded mans hospital fees and get called a nazi

I checked, and it's not fees for a nazi "hospital" where they'd put him in an oven. You can't win with SJWs. Maybe if you sent the dude a check with a long letter asking him to check is privilege before cashing it, they'd feel at ease?

there's no fucking winning with these people. If they didn't believe you'd help a black person, but you showed them the receipts from donating to a black organization or person, they would accuse of you of doing it for tax purposes and not altruism.

When someone wants you to be the bad guy, you're going to be the bad guy in their eyes no matter what.

The question is why they want certain people to be the bad guy

If other people are the bad guy, you literally don't have to do anything at all and you're automatically better than them. It's like a free ticket to smug superiority.

They enjoy watching black men have sex with their wives/girlfriends?

That's racist, they enjoy watching their wives/girlfriends have sex with men of all races.

if someone is the bad, and you clearly aren't them, then you must be the good guy

Because they want revenge on Daddy or the pretty girls from high school or their wife's boyfriend.

Because scapegoats are convenient.

a lot easier to blame your situation on someone else and say your being held back by them, than to admit that the only thing holding you back is yourself

Because then they can be the good guy.

But they're always white?

For the cummies

Because they're a bunch of self loathing fuckwits who just want to think the worst in everything?

Or it could also be because Post-modernism is shit and it's made the entire world 20% more shit since people use that form of critical thinking.

Fuck PM and fuck you (in a general sense).

Post-modernism is shit and it's made the entire world 20% more shit since people use that form of critical thinking.

Post-modernism is literally the opposite of critical thinking.

That's when you serve them some malicious compliance and become the best villain you can possibly be. How ya like me now that I'm eating your kidneys with some fava beans and a nice Chianti, Clarice?

I bought a black friend

I donate for tax purposes so they got me there.

Only way to win is not to play

I know, and that time TheFappening raised money for prostate cancer, people STILL thought that invading peoples privacy was a bad thing! what gives?

have you considered that you are just the worst?

N-no

You're biased being retarded yourself so we can't trust you

take that back please

For social justice!

Is there any evidence that these people were active in BLM, or are you just saying that because you send mash letters to Dylann Roof?

black people REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeee

It was Paul Joseph Watson's fault. And you know how PJW and everyone else at Infowars are...

mash letters

I prefer them baked actually.

Gangbangers and mash.

blm is a terrorist organization responsible for isis cells in every state in america, didn't you hear?

Is there any evidence that these people were active in BLM, or are you just saying that because you send mash letters to Dylann Roof?

I thought it was the colloquial internet name for it. It's the shortest way to name it that everyone will recognize.

Such a bullshit meme. I can't believe they succeeded in pushing that.

I'm going to shorten /u/BannedFromLImzy to "fagman". It's shorter and more recognizable I think we all agree.

/u/fagman, are you ok with it?

BLM associated people like Shaun King sided with the kidnappers, basically.

The actual kidnappers themselves had nothing to do with BLM, they were just a small gang.

AKA Martin Luther Cream, Jr

Nice, that's right up there with Talcum X.

BLM associated people like Shaun King sided with the kidnappers, basically.

saying "i'm not gonna whine about this because i'm confident justice will be served" isn't the same as siding with them

Shaun King

Black

LOL

No. But, you see, rhetoric is = actual violence, therefore BLM is responsible.

"what do we want? dead cops! When do we want them? Now!"

"pigs in a blanket, fry em like bacon!"

constant veneration of assata shakur, violent black nationalist murderer who is still on a fbi's "most wanted" terrorist list.

yeah rhetoric doesn't mean anything.

There is zero link between them, but judging by how BLM screams the same things that these kids screamed, i would not he surprised if these kids where influenced by BLM.

BLMKidnapping victim? Source?

The Chicago kids kidnapped the retarded dood

So what does that have to do with BLM?

What does poo have to do with loo? Truly there are great questions we can never know the answer to. 😏

they both have two o's in it.

That's p deep fam

I try to expand my mind as often as I expand my bussy fam gotta grow as a person everyday

I try to expand my mind as often as I expand my bussy

words to live by

Renaissance men, the both of us

blm is a black supremacist movement

Source?

feels

I got your source right here.

Do your part to keep our community healthy by blowing everything out of proportion and making literally everything as dramatic as possible.

The point I dislike is the " What about the retarded kid who got anal fucked by a wire hanger!" White on black crime and how the punishments were not fair.

  1. It was not filmed and thus had less evidence.
  2. First time offender, unlike these kids.
  3. Sounds more like hazing then actual torture.

But still, it's alway brought up. People are retarded. Including me. I'm Hella retarded.

tfw you're so vanilla you think being sodomized with a wire hanger is torture

Kink shaming smh

This is probably the biggest social issue society faces today. Just look at what all the kids are calling each other these days.

I feel like the video is the real key piece here. If the kids had filmed and posted the act to facebook, bragging and cursing black people, they'd probably be looking at 30 years

The part I like best is when the same SJWs often cry about "whataboutism" (like when discussing feminism, racism, and so on...).

just realized this

mindblown.gif

mindblown.gif


Feedback welcome at /r/image_linker_bot | Disable with "ignore me" via reply or PM

Sounds more like hazing then actual torture.

No I'm pretty sure shoving a wire hanger up someone's ass is rape and torture.

What kind of pussy ass frat did you join, nerd? If you don't almost die after a sodomy, then you ain't living.

All the cool kids expand bussy these days

which side of it?

Sounds more like hazing then actual torture.

the kid had internal injuries, it was more than hazing, it was assault. I do agree that the more lenient punished had to do with your first two points.

Yeah i mean theres like getting rat tailed in the locker room and then theres getting a coat hanger rammed up your shitter so hard you suffer internal bleeding.

I mean ffs if they really wanted to build camaraderie they would've used their bare fists, much more intimate connection imho.

And people have died from hazing gone wrong. That doesn't make it not hazing.

um, I never said it wasn't?

Hazing is assault, it's just far more socially accepted. It has never been right, but there you go

yes, I was in no way trying to downplay hazing

the kid had internal injuries, it was more than hazing, it was assault.

Stop kink shaming those poor white kids.

  1. The offense happened in the context of school based activities and it seems the school has been negligent and thus the victim's caretakers have someone with deep pockets they can and should sue for damages.

That's one of the things that really gets to me about the kidnapping... we know those 4 assholes ain't got shit all in life but liabilities, they may "pay" in some sense for what they did by going to prison, but they are never going to pay the $$$ cost of fixing that kid up as best as possible.

Also anyone who is complaining about money not being donated to that kid have no right to bitch unless they actually forked over some cash.

As good as it is that the victim is getting compensation, I really do find it impossible to feel happy about this, because of what it represents. All the black victims of white violence, and not one red cent raised for them by redditors.

You could have said this and stopped here and it would have been fine. This is a perfectly valid thing to bring up.

I rather suspect that a lot of the people who donated money to this are the same types who donated money to George Zimmerman and Darren Wilson when they were in trouble for murder,(that's a thing that actually happened, look it up) they are loathsome hypocrites...

This is where imma stop you and point out that you are getting mad and talking about things you suspect without real proof and it gets close to veering into baseless, inflammatory accusations territory. I mean, it's good for people here at /r/drama, don't get me wrong, but not good for your initial argument which has something worth talking about.

There's also the fact that y'know, there's evidence that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and Brown had literally just committed an assault and robbery and was running from a cop. Not saying police shootings are good things, but those cases had pretty significant fucking grey areas. The Chicago thing is pretty cut and dry "these people are awful human beings and the victim is completely innocent" with literal hours of evidence.

The Brown case really pissed me off because of all legitimate cases out there, they had to choose the one where they guy was actually at fault. That black social worker who got shot would have been a perfect example, but no, it had to be the guy who tried to grab the cops gun.

There was also the Eric Garner case who was reportedly resisting arrest for like 20 minutes before the cops gave up trying to reason.

NAW HE WUYS A GOOD BOY. HE DINDU MUFFIN.

WE WUZ VICTIMS N SHEIT

Darren Wilson was never charged. Justice had already been served.

This is where imma stop you and point out that you are getting mad and talking about things you suspect without real proof and it gets close to veering into baseless, inflammatory accusations territory.

But remember, fake news and imaginary links between things you don't like are only bad when they get Trump elected. If it's just a way to smear people who irritate you (by donating money to a fundraiser for someone of the wrong color) it's totally ok to make stuff up.

George Zimmerman and Darren Wilson when they were in trouble for murder

I believe the phrase was "self defense."

a lot of the media drags the victims name through the mud, and the family often doesn't even receive justice in the end

Like what? Trayvon Martin got painted like a little angel? Or Michael Brown and the "hands up, don't shoot" lie that is continued to be spread around today? People rioted and burned down their own neighborhood. I don't see any white people went out and burn down their neighborhood when the Chicago police chief hand-waved the possibility of hate crime at first.

I know a lot of people have used this particular incident to say that both black and white people are equally racist in all cases, but I think the difference in reaction has proved that is not true, everyone has the equal potential to be racist and anyone is capable of racism, but in actual practise in the real world here in the west, white people are much worse on average on a extreme level about this sort of thing

Holy crap a run-on, haven't seen that in a while.

I don't believe you, u/Rapedbyakoala (nice name), I would say it's the opposite. All the white people I have met are too afraid to be racist to others, while the Pee-Oh-Sees felt nothing could stop them from being racist.

Now I've thrown my towel into this stupid comparison, I am officially as dumb as you are.

Racism is power+predjudice, so this can't be racism! /s

Don't you dare whitemansplaining my situation. Stop oppressing me!

/s

Get the fuck out of my sub, mayoscum.

How dare you. I identify as a transpecies purple fox. Gib respect pls.

Like what? Trayvon Martin got painted like a little angel?

This one actually annoys me more than the others because the media character assassination on Zimmerman was so egregious.

Everyone speculated it was racially motivated when even a simple look into Zimmermans' background makes it highly unlikely he is racist, despite his other flaws.

Dude took a black chick to prom, was obviously partially mixed, went to a diverse high school where nobody he grew up with could say he ever made a racist comment etc. Then in the 911 call itself he didn't mention the race of Trayvon once until prompted to specifically state his race.

It was about as close to a slam dunk self-defense case as you can get without video (e,g, the back of his clothes were muddy and Trayvon's weren't, facial injuries, etc.)

Tell me about it. Obama and Holder's support for Martin did not make it better. The media and BLM continued to double down on the narrative that it was a "murder."

He was a White Hispanic.

Ahh Latinos, schrodingers POC, just as contingent in their oppression points as Jews.

or you're just too lazy to start a fundraiser

Pretty much sums it up.

Well, they'll never know unless they try it themselves with the roles reversed.

Why didn't the people complaining about lack of fund raising for black victims of crime start raising funds themselves for them?

Because then they'd have to actually put effort and money into a cause they believe in instead of making up a false narrative in their head about reddit.

because they don't have jobs

Wait you actually expect these people to make a difference rather than just bitching, pointing fingers, calling people fascist, and saying "what about..."?

It's fucking current year + 1

/>2000+24 +1

/>giving bourgeois money to people in need instead of smug posting on a metareddit

George Zimmerman and Darren Wilson when they were in trouble for murder,(that's a thing that actually happened, look it up) George Zimmerman and Darren Wilson when they were in trouble for murder,(that's a thing that actually happened, look it up)

Wilson did everything he was supposed to and had his life ruined. Why would donating to the man be a bad thing?

Insert "take something positive and spin it to jealousy that blacks didn't get it too" comment.

While it does sound racist, it really isn't. Society shouldn't reward competitors who aren't even racing.

How did that comment get 107 upvotes is SRD really that bad? I haven't actively gone there for like 2 years but I remember them being slightly more fucking sane than that.

/>srd

/>Sane two years ago

Lol

I love when people make comments like those. Lets me know who the wackos are. Anyone who believes SRD was even slightly sane and not all the way up its own ass post-2011 is a brain dead moron. Honestly, they've been nutso since 2010, but the 2012 election really started pushing them off the edge.

I dont believe it was BLM? I didnt hear them mention it at all in the video.

It's just an internet name for it that stuck (like "pizzagate" and stuff like that).

???? Never heard it before

Lots of places on Reddit use BLMKidnapping as a name for it, it's also a twitter hashtag.

Kinda silly as BLM didnt do it...

It's because some "public" figures (mostly idiots) who vocally supported BLM used that crime as a reason to whine about how much either white people don't deserve sympathy, or how people had too much empathy for that guy... Just like the comments I linked to in SRD.

the media coverage was nothing but sympathetic

The media coverage also tried to desperately shoe away and downplay the fact that this is a hate crime - a racist one

Of course that pigfucker /u/Rapedbyakoala is communist scum.

Rieman was right. We should delete the whites.

But who will pay for the welfare then?

Jews. I heard they ain't white.

I also heard they don't like to spend their own money.

/u/rguin got shredded in every argument he found himself in.

I mean, they have a point.

Episode 1136: /u/velvet_llama finds a way to be technically right while missing the point, anally devastating the /r/drama populace.

That sub is officially off the fucking deep end.

I know it may have happened months or even years ago, but I'm calling it now.

Oh, hey SRS symptoms n°1

Okay, now I'm fucking mad.

You could say those four... dindu nuffin

/u/rapedbyakoala:

As good as it is that the victim is getting compensation, I really do find it impossible to feel happy about this, because of what it represents.

And strawman of the day goes to u/birdsinthenest

Lol if I had a dollar for every time the word strawman was used on Reddit. Just calling it as I see it on this site.

Why not fund a gun pile for both alt-right whiteys and far-left retards and let them go at it?

I fear a lot of them wouldn't be able to shoot straight and it would cause a lot of collateral damage. Why not give them blunt weapons and start a hunger games type situation between them?

Oh, yeah, true, or just strip them naked and force them to look at each other's gross bodies as they rip into each other with their bare, dirty hands.

Give them weapons at least, since it takes away some of the inhibitions about hurting someone else.

We'd have to figure out what the neo-Nazi retards won't immediately shoot each other with because they're dumb rednecks eager to shoot 'coons' and 'safe spaces', what the fussy baby bitches won't immediately cry upon seeing, and what the moron ~red brigades/black blocs~ won't stab themselves with.

Each side would lose more people to infighting over minor details only they care about.

That, too. In that case, probably deploy napalm after 30 minutes.

SRDines: butwhatabout [other crime] where's their fundraiser???

Normal people: go ahead and start one.

SRDines: well I would but...