There's been a terrorist attack in London at the houses of parliament. Everyone argues about Islam in /r/ukpolitics

85  2017-03-22 by [deleted]

[deleted]

132 comments

We obviously need to start banning these assault cars

We'll just build walls everywhere, but we'll call them 'aesthetic perimeters'.

He also used a semi-automatic knife.

if you hold it by the blade is it a semi-automatic dildo?

That's clearly a highly illegal, fully automatic knife. Disgusting. Are you some kind of terrorist? Where was that picture taken?

Germany has actually banned tucks during festivals.

'Asian'

That's what we call people from the Middle east and areas surrounding India in the UK.

I know what it means in the UK. It's still too broad.

It's still too broad.

It's not really. Here 'Asian' is pretty much synonymous with 'brown person' so it's more of an indicator of what police are on the lookout for - a brown man, lol.

For initial reports I think it's as specific as it can be.

Man in 40s with brown skin is more accurate than Asian.

I mean... they could, but calling him 'Asian' gets the intended point across with a tiny bit more tact.

I guess. idk their lives, I'm just explaining why 'asian' isn't as broad a term in the UK as it might be elsewhere.

I understand what people from the UK mean when they say Asian but I disagree that it isn't too broad. The problem I have is that it's a shitty and ambiguous description. Let's say a Polish guy commits a crime and it's unknown they are Polish at the time. The description you are going to hear from witnesses and the police is most likely going to be 'White male'. If the same thing happens and the person is Jamaican but it is unknown, the description you are going to get in the UK is 'Black male'. But now, if the guy is brown, all of a sudden the description is 'Asian Male'. The first two are more accurate in terms of physical description and also leave less room for mistakes.

Right, I get your point but I'm saying 'asian male' here is our 'brown male'. That's just how things are done here. Asian = brown. It's not out of the norm, or a way to blur the lines so as not to offend, it's just the term we use here.

I often describe the school I went to as 'hella fucking asian' and everyone I speak to (in the UK) knows that to mean 'brown as fuck'.

I understand that that is what you guys do and it's what everyone is used to but it's still dumb lol. They use 'black male' and 'white male' as descriptions but somehow 'brown male' is offensive. Is there some historical context in the UK that I'm missing when it comes to the usage of 'brown male' that makes it more offensive in particular?

I actually don't know, lol. You're gonna have to check in with /u/aonome for actual facts.

I'm a sheeple.

Not calling Asians by a color is reparations for the Empire.

Then why do they call Jamaicans black?

Nope, we gotta go

D E E P E R

E

E

P

E

R

They have less political pull than the Asians.

So what do you call Asians then?

Honestly after talking about it more I can see why people outside of the uk thing it's ridiculous.

But to answer your question, most of the time referring to people as 'south asian' or 'east asian' is enough to understand the context. If people need clarification then of course clarification is provided.

I mean, if that's the cultural term then fair enough. Those people are in Asia.

Out of curiosity, do you refer to Russians as Asians too?

Those people

wow, guy.

Russians are just Russians, tbh. But I'm sure people would be referring to a Russian person as 'eastern european' until they knew any better.

Sorry, I mistyped.

What I meant was "Those (((people)))".

easy mistake, you're good to go.

We determine it without thinking simply from the context, for example if someone talks about Asian communities in London or Birmingham I know what they mean. If they talk about Asian international students at university you know they're talking about people from the far East. If they're talking about how there is a large Asian population of doctors you know they're talking about people from on or near the Indian subcontinent. If we're referring to an Indian person's ethnicity in a university we would say they're Indian. If we're talking about a Chinese person in London we'd say Chinese.

I mean you're really just supporting my argument. The fact that it means so many different things in different contexts just proves it's too broad of a term.

Not at all. You see, unlike /r/drama users most people are not autistic. Because of this they are capable of understanding nuance and inferring meaning from context. They are also able to deal with things not being ordered and categorised rigorously and so do not need separate words for these contexts.

I've said numerous times that I understand the meaning and usage of the term. Understanding the usage of a term does not mean it is not open to criticism. You say 'capable of understanding nuance' but the fact that the term is ambiguous means it lacks nuance.

This is one of the dumbest arguments I've heard today.

You're on /r/drama bucko, you haven't seen anything yet.

I'm sorry, but this is just such a stupid fucking hill to die on.

It sounds like you're waiting for someone to accidentally spill the beans and admit it's a progressive political correctness conspiracy so you can sperg out and call us all lefty cucks, but instead you're just getting increasingly frustrated at everyone repeatedly reassuring you it's a pretty normal term over here.

I'm criticising the term because it's vague and inaccurate especially when it comes to physical descriptions. I didn't even bring up it being 'politically correct' someone else did. You're making a bunch of assumptions about me because you can't actually think of an argument so instead you decided to build me up as something I'm not. I'm criticizing the term and it's accuracy especially in regards to descriptions, and all people responding seem to be able to come up with are 'this is what it means and this is what we're used to' which I already know and aknowledge.

I'm criticising the term because it's vague and inaccurate especially when it comes to physical descriptions.

But it's perfectly accurate to any Brit. In this context it pretty clearly means 'brown skinned person of what is very likely Muslim persuasion'.

I'm criticizing the term and it's accuracy especially in regards to descriptions, and all people responding seem to be able to come up with are 'this is what it means and this is what we're used to' which I already know and acknowledge.

Then why fucking bother arguing in circles about it. No one is saying anything other than "yeah it's just how we say it, no it's not like a political thing", because that's pretty much all it comes down to. Do you think Asian should be an exclusive term for those rice eating yellow ching chong motherfuckers or do you just want a pat on the head for pointing out a basic discrepancy everyone is aware of?

If you want a more 'proper' answer, it evolved as white/black/Asian because the 'brown' minorities here are so predominantly Indian/Pakistani, it didn't make much sense to continuously keep referring to them as just 'brown'. They're not Arabs or Mexicans.

But then you also can't casually refer to every Asian-Brown person as that and also Indians and Pakistanis really don't like it when you confuse the two so we've settled on Asian/South Asian and East Asian.

meet me here ill be the asian guy

what do you mean be more specific

I love this argument so much.

The fact that someone needs to say Chinese versus Asian proves that Asian is retarded.

it's like that in the UK. this is not a case of deliberate avoidance of terms in order to avoid backlash. this is simply how it is said there

How would you describe him then considering nobody knows shit atm

Man, age 30-40, beard, dark brown skin, shaved head.

an entire sentence to replace one word nice

I mean based on the info that was given at the time even man aged 40 brown skin would be better than Asian.

Man, age 30-40, beard, dark brown skin, shaved head.

That's not a race. If someone asks for his race, the answer (in UK terminology) is "Asian."

This whole thing started over a description.

Why not just say the nationality?

Because that's only a small step away from saying their religion and we can't have that.

Their nationality is probably British. It isn't very descriptive when everyone else is British.

This is fair I should have said nationality/ethnicity/and national origin.

Aka "Asian".

Asian isn't a nationality, ethnicity, or national origin.

Nigga you wouldn't call an egyptian "african". They're sandfrican-americans.

Hehe...Americans always get annoyed when other countries do not follow their nomenclature and terms.

I wish Americans would just learn how to spell and drive on the proper side of the bloody road!

I'm not American.

Only South Asians, not Middle Easterners

1/3rd of the world is east asia though. Why not say middle east and clear all confusion?

People don't consciously plan how language evolves

Not here, the news tried to spin it as Asian without clarification for a while. Also if it evolves so easily, then it could easily evolve again by just saying middle eastern.

asian

which site is reporting this?

Both the Daily Mail and the Telegraph say that an eye witness described a middle-aged Asian man

thnx

So is it safe to assume he's an ethnic Russian?

Most Russians aren't Asian though.

HE CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT

I'm thoroughly surprised none of these have been Tom Brady so far

first of all how dare u

This is the most wholesome tankie meme I've seen.

When will he stop?!?!

https://i.imgur.com/KoM2AXP.jpg

For realizies tho, attacker was white skinned aryan (pictured here being attended to using his white privilege points). Mayocide right meow.

WAIT, TRUMP?!

Ya, it makes me sad. If we had started the mayocide even just a week ago all of this could have been avoided. Every moment we delay the more innocent people die.

Wow, if he dies here that means Mike 'gas the cumskins' Pence is going to take over...RIP toilet people.

that Muslim-looking beard, though, well, that tells something

Yeah, it's pretty clear the guy tried to turn this into one of those infamous right wing false flag attacks. This guy is 110% a nazi.

That guys black tho

I SAID HE IS WHITE SO HE IS WHITE.

Is that Jacob dressed like Julian?

It's notorious spree killer and terrorist (Sam Hyde)[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Hyde]

Sky released a name: Assam Hyed.

Haha, classic r/ukpolitics

If you try and defend yourself against Muslims the terrorists win!

The real tragedy is that the ((right wing)) will use this to push Islamophobia!

Remember, terrorists actually love anti-immigrant right-wing nationalists, so vote for leftist pro-immigration parties to fight terrorism!

i didnt even follow the link

at least you're upfront I guess lol

atleast wait for the confirmation before circlejerking

smh

You're a cunt! Prove you're not a cunt by deleting your account! EDIT: Success!!!

score two for neo nazis!

current board: 1488 for the neo-nazis, 1 knocked over trashcan for antifa

You aren't completely wrong...

if you don't vote for (liberal party du jour), you're Aktully sUpPortInG them !!1111!!!!

This is probably why I'm so shit at Counter Strike.

I mean, terrorists actually do love anti-immigrant right-wing nationalists, they use em for propaganda about how much the west hates muslims

Yeah, that must be why they rant about

Is he wrong?

this new wave

Yes, all those centuries of Islamic peace and co-existence ruined the last couple of decades.

but it's certainly true that this new wave of xenophobic nationalism has helped Islamic extremists with their anti-west rhetoric.

Do you know what else "helps Islamic extremists with anti-west rhetoric?" Westerners existing and having western cultures that are contrary to what Islam says is permitted.

Do you even realize how fucking disgusting your implication that Muslims wouldn't be violent if western people didn't resist Islam is?

Go ask the minorities in Muslim countries that keep their heads down and don't dare speak even their god's name in Arabic for fear of violence how peaceful Muslims are if you cow to them.

If we hadn't violently rejected Islam hundreds of years ago and fought to keep Europe free the entire planet would be coated in illiterate Islamist shitholes.

Fought to keep Europe free from what? When did Muslims invade Europe (inb4 now)?

possibly op is referencing the moors in spain. not sure, but thats my guess.

I suppose, but I don't consider Mexicans part of Europe

So they invaded Eastern Europe and Mexico, big deal

Most of the Crusades were conquering the middle east from muslims, not Europe.

I don't deal with Muslims vs. Mexicans.

Huh, I think my history education has a gap because I know almost nothing about the Ottoman Empire. Weird.

Most of the Crusades were conquering the middle east from muslims, not Europe.

As a response to Muslim aggression and raids as well as the persecution of Christians in the middle east. The middle east used to have a lot of Christian countries; Islam expanded into them and destroyed them.

We're talking about invading Europe, and the persecution boiled down to basically levying heavy taxes and not allowing them to proselytize/worship in public. Course, one guy went crazy and burned down the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem, but we all know how that went...

You act like heavy taxes against different religions and not allowing their worship publicly is some small issue.

For the Middle Ages it is a extremely progressive. Hell, they treated the Jews better than the Christians did!

Tell that to the Medinian Jews.

If Muhammad violates his own rules that's not the Muslims fault

Afghanistan used to be a Buddhist country.

Yup. The Muslims destroyed some ancient Buddhist rock carving a few years back.

this new wave

I was referring to 'this new wave' of western nationalism and it's impact on the rhetoric used in the Middle East to radicalise.


Do you even realize how fucking disgusting your implication that Muslims wouldn't be violent if western people didn't resist Islam is?

Maybe you're not reading what I wrote but, if so, this is such a blatant straw man. Again, all I was claiming is that western nationalism is creating a more violent image of 'the west' abroad. it's as simple as that. I didn't claim that we shouldn't 'resist Islam' - That's just a different conversation.

I was referring to 'this new wave' of western nationalism and it's impact on the rhetoric used in the Middle East to radicalise.

I know you were, and my sarcastic reply was a reference to the fact that Muslims have been attacking the west for as long as Islam has existed.

my point. very obvious strawmanning

Breivik loved the left-wing parties, he used them for propaganda for how much they hate the west.

I support gay marriage, so it makes perfect sense for me to supporting bringing in an infinite number of people who believe that throwing gays off buildings is not even controversial.

Tbh this sounds as hypocritical as supporting women's rights and then also supporting a religion that stones women to death for being raped.

We'll meet somewhere in the middle. Say the 1860s

So... pistols at dawn?

To the death!

/r/ukpolitics is one of the most balanced politics subs on the site, definitely the most balanced native english speaking one.

It's hard to say if it's balanced, it depends on the thread, but it has a healthy diversity of opinions and people would rather debate you than downvote you unless you're being a proper fucknut.

Given that literally every popular political subreddit on this site is massively biased to the left and heavily censors (besides /r/the_donald) that's a meaningless statement.

It's like advertising the eating of dog shit because it's "typically cleaner than the feces of many other mammals by germ/virus count and type metrics"

You admitted to not even clicking the links though, so how the fuck do you know?

(You don't know, are wrong and legitimately stupid as shit).

/r/ukpolitics leans centre-right you twat

talks about his mum in comparison to confronting a muslim.

think he lives in one of the few british houses with a basement?

You're a bully

mebs

Everything bad is Trump's fault. Everything good is still Obama's doing.

k

Kys

Keep Yourself Safe :^)

I haven't checked the news yet, but, if it turns out the culprit is Muslim, I can tell you that I'm not surprised at all.

Look at the pic of the guy... You'd have to be on some Autism grade narcotics in order to think he's a Nazi.

Well Jontron is Iranian.

Actually Jamjons is a bird

LONE WOLF LONE WOLF IDENTITY UNKNOWN RAVIOLI RAVIOLI MOTIVES ARE UNCLEARIOLI

Kek