Neither does Canada, Norway or Denmark relative to Japan, or Belgium and Spain. You're making a heuristic fallacy when you have one prominent attack that sticks out in your memory. You forget the 1995 Saran gas attack on the subway, or the NK abductions of Japanese citizens
No i'm pretty well aware of the Sarin gas attacks. Not sure if Nork abductions count as terrorism, when they're generally done as covertly as possible.
What i do wonder is why you insist on importing aliens instead of promoting fertility rates, or, God forbid, just accept a temporary population decline.
Because they provide a net positive economic gain, the only reason to keep them out is if you have a fetish for a pure white america. Population decline is a serious negative impact on a country, there is nothing intrinsically beneficial of having a homogeneous (white) society.
Yes, being xenophobic isolationists doesn't turn you into Zimbabwe. It does hurt their economy though (declining population etc., see above) and provides no benefit.
I don't see any third wirld ghettos around Tokyo, so there's a benefit
There are countries without immigration that have ghettos and there are countries with immigration that don't have any ghettos, so there clearly is zero connection between the two.
Also no Islamic terrorism.
But they have terrorism, see Sarin Gas attack of 1995. Unless you somehow think there's a difference between getting killed by an Islamic terrorist and another terrorist.
it's the same neo-liberals who made the blue collars compete with the third world by scraping every right and regulations who now says they're gonna import third world people near their place because it's never enough.
still doesn't understand that neoliberalism looks always to extend the market first at all costs, doesn't matter the numbers of people crushed in the process.
And you have a supermodel wife and a ten inch cock too, I'm sure.
I wasn't aware that 'makes concerted efforts to address climate change', something literally anyone can do, is somehow on the level of having a ten-inch dick and a supermodel wife. You know how I called you ridiculous? Yea that times a million.
I don't know why you engaged him in the first place. The entire basis of his "critique" of neoliberalism was "rich people like your policies", which was somehow axiomatically a bad thing.
Sure you support all that shit, but you write it all off as politically impossible and never attempt to actually get it enacted in real life. It's real easy to play that game.
Indian dick is probably covered in shit due to lack of hygiene. Even animals know how to practice proper bathroom habits compared to the average Indian. no thanks.
Sure, if you only care about raw GDP and nothing else, but that's a pretty shit way of measuring prosperity. Australia's GDP is growing quite well, but per capita wealth is declining and wages are stagnant.
Ah, sorry, I realised what went wrong. GDP per capita for Australia was measured against the USD, not in the local currency. Since the AUD has fallen a lot in value vs the USD since 2013 (~1.10 to 0.75 now), of course our GDP per capita in USD has fallen, but not in AUD:
a) you didn't notice until I admitted my own fuck-up
b) you didn't even dispute my original claim, unlike the other guy
e) since I don't live in the United States, and everything is bought and sold using USD in the international market, my cost of living effectively increases even if my per capita wealth and wage has kept up with inflation (unless I buy 100% made in Australia)
You do realize you physically can't have positive population growth. Eventually growth will have stabilize or decline slowly. You're just reaping prosperity today from future generations. I bet you're the type who bitch about baby boomers being selfish too.
No way bruh, the global population and economy can increase exponentially for eternity, I've got graphs and shit. And if we fuck up too badly we'll have the autists in SV build a Mars colony and start over again.
Because they provide a net positive economic gain, the only reason to keep them out is if you have a fetish for a pure white america. Population decline is a serious negative impact on a country, there is nothing intrinsically beneficial of having a homogeneous (white) society.
Homogenous doesn't mean white. This kind of nonsense is why we can't have an adult discussion about immigration.
Most people I know who are reluctant to take in more immigrants are that way due to economic and security concerns. If the economy was booming with a strong job market, and everyone who stepped into this country was peaceful and eager to integrate, you would find very little opposition to more immigrants. Instead we have a weak job market with threats of automation on the horizon, and tons of terrorism taking place in Europe.
But nevermind all of that, it's easier to just margainalize people and chalk up everything to bigotry.
Oh thank god one guy, 100+ years ago made a statement about a ever evolving soft science. Now lets treat it as though it was a infallible commandment divinely given to us by god rather then looking around the present where wages are going down, and unemployment is going up.
It's not a irrelevant term you fucking idiot, its a legit term to describe the field. You can't just look at a single statement from 1890 and assume it still applies today.
Can you actually form a argument that isn't just posting a ton of links? Critically thinking instead of regurgitating other peoples thoughts.
Look at the value of wages when adjusted for inflation and there is a very clear downtrend when though productivity has been increasing.
Population decline is a serious negative impact on a country
This has never been shown to be the case, there is literally no proof for this.
there is nothing intrinsically beneficial of having a homogeneous (white) society.
Strange how white countries have far higher standards of living and are popular destinations for immigrants, then.
yes, i have no doubt that mr "pure white societies are inherently superior" has great and enduring respect for truth, reasoning and the scientific process. specifically phrenology.
What i do wonder is why you insist on importing aliens instead of promoting fertility rates, or, God forbid, just accept a temporary population decline.
They are very xenophobic though and it affects their immigration laws.
they are a lot more welcoming towards immigrants compared to the Holocaust survivors that run the ethno-natinonalist state of israel where they sterilize the immigrants that end up getting past the 100 meter high wall around the entire country.
Yeah but this is mostly a middle eastern thing and not a Muslim as a whole thing. The Middle East is a violent shithole but Indonesia really isn't bad even though they have the most Muslims of any country. Yeah Indonesia does have problems but nowhere near the level of the Middle East.
So you're saying middle eastern shouldn't be allowed in because they are uncivilized savages who cause problems. Because you're into something, if you are.
You aren't counting other crime commited by immigrants or crime covered up by the police/media.
Do you remember that during the Danish cartoon drama some Danish Muslims went on a trip to the middle east to help spread hate and inspire Islamist violence and faced no repercussions at all?
Given European police and politicians covering for immigrant crime how much shit that the natives have to deal with goes unseen?
Well, that's a distortion. We would prefer no H1B limits or even better no limits at all. I think the current H1B system is bizarre, dysfunctional, and gives employers too much power, but better than no skilled immigration system at all.
I'm not sure how progressive it is to bring over hordes of desperate 3rd world workers that get turned into an economic and racial underclass, all for the sake of economic growth.
I am not in favor of increased immigration "for the sake of economic growth". I'm in favor of immigration since it gives the global poor, at least those that do manage to immigrate, a better life.
It just so happens that they also provide an economic benefit to the society they immigrate to. This is important to note since people opposed to immigration (read: xenophobes that hate poor people) often pretend to be opposed to immigration for economic reasons.
Wait, are you for real? Sure, they probably had simpler lives with less technology in Africa but there they weren't forced to work every day under horrible conditions and be separated from their families.
Many slaves were taken through "slave catching" trips inland by white merchants in which they would snatch blacks almost directly from their homes. Others were bought from black slave owners, who generally treated their slaves with a basic level of respect. Africans generally had fairly sophisticated civilizations up until colonial conquest (although there were obviously different situations in different regions) and generally avoided famine and plague as much as any other population of that time period.
By comparison, many slaves were brought to the new world to be killed. Fully 97% of the slaves brought over from Africa were sent south of the US. The large sugar plantations of the Carribean were extremely dangerous to work at and would usually kill slaves within a few months of working there. Slave drivers knew this, and would fcous on getting as much work out of each slave as they could before they dropped dead.
So contradictory to your claim, Africans, even those enslaved while in Africa, did much better in Africa than they did in the New World, where they were often put into a system designed to profit off their suffering and death.
thers were bought from black slave owners, who generally treated their slaves with a basic level of respect. Africans generally had fairly sophisticated civilizations up until colonial conquest
Slaves weren't "dying in Africa," what an absurd comment. Black people were doing fine in Africa. The transatlantic transportation of slaves killed 40% of those captured; then most were transported to plantations in the Caribbean and Brazil and died within 7 years.
"Better working conditions" my ass that's freaking ignorant. Slavery is basically the most extractive anti-neoliberal institution possible.
Slavery wasn't unregulated. It was extraordinarily regulated. If it was "unregulated", the state wouldn't have recognized property rights in people and enforced such property rights with the police power of the state.
What "unregulated" slavery looks like: [slave runs away to police "help pls this man kidnapped me." police: okay, to jail with kidnapper.]
Ah yes, money being sent back to your family in your home country that drives up the costs of goods and services for other people in their community increasing their poverty level... Great answer.
Maybe you should go into these third world countries and see how it actually is. I understand economics very well, but theory and practical results are not the same things.
it's not unreasonable to believe the economic and racial underclass they join in the US would still offer more opportunities and a better quality of life than where they emmigrated from.
Perhaps some make it, but for the most part it seems like poor demographics stay poor for generations. Creating ethnic underclasses like this breeds resentment in both the immigrant population and the native population that has to compete with them. Plus, the 1st generation that remembers how bad it was in their home countries might see their current status as an improvement, but the subsequent generations often resent the lack of opportunities to escape their poverty and turn to gangs or radicalized religion. It's really hard to solve this issue, far harder than letting poor immigrants in(not saying I'm opposed to immigration, rich and poor).
That's why we should also have policies that break the cycle of poverty. Say, a negative income tax, a robust education system, and universal healthcare. You're making the case for why having a poor underclass is bad, not the case for why immigration is bad.
My point is that immigration balloons up the portion of society in the underclass, with the powers that brought them over having a good reason to keep them poor.
Going "just make policies that let the poor minorities rise up" is naive.
Barriers to emigration from low-skill countries are the largest global economic distortion in existence, around two orders of magnitude larger than every single trade barrier combined.
People in the third world can make their own choices if we drop barriers to movement. This leftist paternalism is disgusting nonsense.
Like I said the improvement is relative, as the subsequent generations find that they're in a crappy situation without anything worse to compare it too. Those subsequent generations often stay poor.
It's admirable I guess, but let's not pretend that main motive here is cheap labor and profit.
It didn't work out very well for several generations, if it weren't for prohibition and the money they made from bootlegging, the Irish probably would still be second class citizens. The Italians made their bones in America through unions and organized crime.
If you actually had any sense of history you'd know that those were extremely hard transitions and at a much different pace. If the current immigration was coming into a country growing as rapidly as the USA was at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century, then that would be less concerning, but it's not. We are also experiencing immigration levels that are completely unsustainable.
Every single time there has been wave of immigrants people say the exact thing you're saying right now. It was said about Jews and East Asians, groups that now out earn whites. Less than a century ago we had Arnold Rothstein, Meyer Lansky and Bugsy Siegel. Now we have Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, and Elena Kagan.
Liberal? You couldn't be further from the truth on that one. All I'm saying here is that their massive over representation on the Supreme Court reflects well on the Jewish community. I'm still eagerly awaiting the next death of a liberal justice, Gorsuch was one of the few good things to come from Trump's victory.
And I see no statistics to back this up. If you can give me a statistic of n > 2000 so we can see that shit in a confidence interval of 95%, then yea the claim would be justified.
/u/hellschatt, this is so kind-numbingly retarded I don't know where to start. Please never talk about statistics again.
The American left absolutely hate their own poor people for some reason
That whole thread is basically "fuck you for being unemployed, fuck you for being uneducated, fuck you for being addicted to drugs, fuck you for not wanting to be replaced by cheaper labor"
That thread is useful because usually there is a thicker veneer where "fuck you poor people" hides because "we want to help immigrants :(((((" but they're not really pretending this time
Maybe you'd prefer a global society with centralized power and banking systems, where your freedoms have been stripped to nothing, and humanity are slaves?
It's not zero sum. By looking out for other communities, we look out for our own. By improving the productivity and wealth of other nations we improve everybody's situation, including our own.
No, "helping the global poor" in a way that ENTIRELY COINCIDENTALLY gives you a shitton of cheapest stuff produced for cents an hour, no safety or environmental regulations, or social security is total hypocritical bullshit.
If you want to help the global poor, legalize all immigrants and make sure that they receive the same benefits as the natives for starters, and let the comparative advantages work for themselves. If you don't like that or don't think that it would work, then don't hide behind "I just want to help" bullshit, say that you like exploitation and cheap stuff.
I like free trade and open borders. People should be allowed to migrate where they want and trade with who they want, period. The fact that those policies uplift the global poor and make cheap stuff is great, but I'd support those policies even if they didn't. I don't believe in exploitation.
People should be allowed to migrate where they want and trade with who they want, period.
Yeah, the problem arises when on one hand you say that sure, we shouldn't allow employers to offer an opportunity to work in asbestos mines without respirators for $1/hr, because some desperate people would do that and die horribly, instead we should have mandatory safety regulations and minimal wage and social safety net for the unemployed, and as long as mining asbestos remains profitable, the employers will be forced to give the workers all that.
But on the other hand if it's some Jose who can't complain to the police about OSHA violations because he'd get deported, or because it's the Jose over there where they don't have OSHA, you're all like yay cheap asbestos :D
Yes. Have you seen real compensation? Or the price of goods? Or any of a bunch of other metrics for standard of living beyond wages that demonstrate that the average person is demonstrably better off than they were 20 years ago (which is impressive in and of itself given that there was a massive recession ~10 years ago)?
Over the entire 34-year period between 1979 and 2013, the hourly wages of middle-wage workers (median-wage workers who earned more than half the workforce but less than the other half) were stagnant, rising just 6 percent—less than 0.2 percent per year. This wage growth, in fact, occurred only because wages grew in the late 1990s when labor markets got tight enough—unemployment, for instance, fell to 4 percent in 1999 and 2000—to finally deliver across-the-board hourly wage growth. The wages of middle-wage workers were totally flat or in decline over the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s, except for the late 1990s. The wages of low-wage workers fared even worse, falling 5 percent from 1979 to 2013. In contrast, the hourly wages of high-wage workers rose 41 percent.
That's exactly what I am. Do you give away all the money in your wallet when you see a homeless guy? If you had to press 1 of 2 buttons - one would kill your closest loved one, the other would kill 2 random people you don't know, which would you push? We're all selfish to a certain extent.
Except he can't find a job because of all the immigrants flooding the low-skilled labor market. Also the excess supply of labor forces wages down so even if he did land a job he wouldn't make as much money.
How does a lower-middle class worker benefit from immigration when it only increases the amount of competition he has to worry about and decrease the actual wages he can expect?
They benefit by having more young productive workers helping to pay for the baby boomer's retirements. Immigration is the primary reason why the US isn't facing the same demographic crisis that Japan is.
No it's not. Japan's facing a demographic crisis because of their insane work culture, and the fact men and women are going after that sweet 2-D waifu bussy instead of real relationships.
I'm talking about japan. Talking about about white birth rates in japan is talking about like .05 % of their population. That won't really affect their population too much at that low amount.
Trump's border wall, the suspension of the TPP, Bernie's healthcare "plan," a $15 federal minimum wage. Really any big shiny promise a politician dangles in front of voters to gain support despite it being completely infeasible.
The difference is that they were feasible, and they for the most part worked; for another example of reasonable, progressive campaign promises, see Hillary Clinton.
What exactly am I supposed to offer anyone? I'm not a politician, just an American dismayed at how pathetic we've become.
Ditch your hometown, bro. Sure, you grew up during it's waning years and want to see it restored for its former glory so that your kids and fellow neighbors can enjoy it and the life it offers. But fuck that and move to the city and do clerical work instead.
I get upset that my local school board is spending money on things like education instead of malaria mitigation in third world countries. Why do you hate the poor?
I'm sure, Japan does prove immigrants are worthless ans that the (((government))) are intentionally suppressing american education to fiddle the statistics to allow more non-aryans into the country, but c'mon this is supposed to be a lulzy sub not a political one.
I get the anti-SRD "let's be edgy" impulses and especially the drive to make fun of the excesses of the social justice stuff. The unironic neoliberal stuff doesn't make a lot of sense to me either though. I guess it's contrarianism, maybe? This sub doesn't really go in for that though.
Meh, maybe just people clicking through and brigading. Just comes off as straight up retarded. Happens often with communist/anarchist stuff too, but it attracts so much attention that they get heavily outnumbered and you end up with like 150 comments in 4 hours.
The "sweatshops are great actually" circlejerk is really something else though. If you can imagine a British colonial officer giving your exact same spiel in Africa in 1910 then you're probably not doing good in the world.
I love illegal immigrants since they work for nothing and I can pay the guys that do physical labor for me cheaper, oops, I mean, because I care about humanity and borders are racist!
There is literally nothing not fucking sociopathic about it. Even better is they think they are morally superior from that tower of theirs. Literally racist and outright having hatred for entire groups of people and treating them subhuman and calling all their critics racist at the same time is a beautiful touch.
Muh GDP is a nice touch as though that works on anyone that isn't stupid and thinks it over for more than a few minutes.
Their strategy is basically to talk about GDP, then you point out that in a society distributions and not just averages are important (I'd rather have an exactly equal society where everyone made $30,000 a year than a society where half were out on the streets and half made $60,000, and it's not because I'm on the far left either), and they move to talk about how inequality drives innovation, then you point out that's definitely not true when inequality is at Gilded Age levels and tens of millions are going without sufficient health care, and then they move to some other argument, and so on.
They aren't really attached to any one line of argument which is telling. I think a lot of them deep down just are looking for any excuse to bash the less fortunate and promote the technocratic financial & political class which has fucked up our society so much in the last few decades. I have no respect for them whatsoever.
I just dislike how they try and act as if defending capitalism is like edgy or subversive. It's like the contrarianism has gone full circle or something.
immigrants not having enough courage or standards or self-respect to demand a higher wage for themselves, driving overall wages down, isn't a good thing...
This is what has been bothering me these days. I keep hearing talks about how no illegal would mean our labor market would collapse. Does that mean we are to tolerate our businesses exploit the illegals? I thought we are supposed to stop such exploitation?
Does that mean we are to tolerate our businesses exploit the illegals?
Yes, the native population had the opportunity to allow themselves to be exploited, but there are always people from poorer countries who will be grateful for the scraps (they're from poor shitholes, they'll never know the difference! Tee hee!)
303 comments
n/a SnapshillBot 2017-04-30
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n/a Ultrashitpost 2017-04-30
/u/jvwoody they don't seem to suffer a lot of terrorist attacks or immigration related crime, though.
n/a jvwoody 2017-04-30
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Terrorism_Index#2016
Neither does Canada, Norway or Denmark relative to Japan, or Belgium and Spain. You're making a heuristic fallacy when you have one prominent attack that sticks out in your memory. You forget the 1995 Saran gas attack on the subway, or the NK abductions of Japanese citizens
n/a Ultrashitpost 2017-04-30
No i'm pretty well aware of the Sarin gas attacks. Not sure if Nork abductions count as terrorism, when they're generally done as covertly as possible.
What i do wonder is why you insist on importing aliens instead of promoting fertility rates, or, God forbid, just accept a temporary population decline.
n/a jvwoody 2017-04-30
Because they provide a net positive economic gain, the only reason to keep them out is if you have a fetish for a pure white america. Population decline is a serious negative impact on a country, there is nothing intrinsically beneficial of having a homogeneous (white) society.
n/a Ultrashitpost 2017-04-30
Japan has a fetish for a pure white America?
Japan is a homogenous white society?
n/a Vepanion 2017-04-30
Japan has a fetish for pure Japanese Japan, don't be obtuse. In other words, they're xenophobic.
See above. Obtuse.
n/a Ultrashitpost 2017-04-30
and what's wrong with that? their HDI is still very much top-tier
n/a CaliggyJack 2017-04-30
Globalists hate Isolation
More news at 11
n/a Vepanion 2017-04-30
Yes, being xenophobic isolationists doesn't turn you into Zimbabwe. It does hurt their economy though (declining population etc., see above) and provides no benefit.
n/a Ultrashitpost 2017-04-30
I don't see any third wirld ghettos around Tokyo, so there's a benefit. Also no Islamic terrorism.
n/a Vepanion 2017-04-30
There are countries without immigration that have ghettos and there are countries with immigration that don't have any ghettos, so there clearly is zero connection between the two.
But they have terrorism, see Sarin Gas attack of 1995. Unless you somehow think there's a difference between getting killed by an Islamic terrorist and another terrorist.
n/a thelordchaosoflight2 2017-04-30
n/a Vepanion 2017-04-30
9/11 was 5 years later and people still base their opinions on that.
Regardless, the fuck kind of argument is that. Racist xenophobic anti-immigration doesn't ensure there won't be terrorism, point proven.
n/a thelordchaosoflight2 2017-04-30
Yes. Those people are incompetent and, apparently, so are you, since you can't seem to stay on a single topic for longer than a single sentence.
n/a BANNED_FIVE_TIMES 2017-04-30
very questionable
n/a Vepanion 2017-04-30
The more people claim something to be obvious or "common sense", the less they are actually able to back it up.
So, no, I don't see that connection at all.
n/a BANNED_FIVE_TIMES 2017-04-30
TIL assimilation is easy.
Retard. It's funny because you thought you had a point. Typical.
n/a OccasionallyClueless 2017-04-30
Forcing them to assimilate is problematic. They can't slather us in their culture jelly if they become American first.
n/a TruthPains 2017-04-30
This thread got too real for me. If anyone needs me, I'll be shaggin' yer nan m8
n/a Ultrashitpost 2017-04-30
me nan aint 2 pretty m80
n/a TruthPains 2017-04-30
So?
n/a cruelandusual 2017-04-30
He gonna cast you down with the sodomites.
n/a MyrLeaf 2017-04-30
n/a Ultrashitpost 2017-04-30
Alain de Benoist was right.
n/a alibix 2017-04-30
>neoliberal
>wanting blue collars to compete with third world
n/a Ultrashitpost 2017-04-30
He should've said "wants blue collar workers to shut the fuck up and die out"
n/a alibix 2017-04-30
>neoliberal
>wanting population decline
n/a Ultrashitpost 2017-04-30
Robots are the new population, famalam
n/a alibix 2017-04-30
free market does what it does
n/a Ultrashitpost 2017-04-30
which is often
n/a MyrLeaf 2017-04-30
n/a alibix 2017-04-30
except when it doesn't
n/a jvwoody 2017-04-30
No entity should be protected from competition.
You mean by allowing free trade and free movement of capital?
That's a funny way of phrasing freedom of choice and movement for the global poor.
n/a MyrLeaf 2017-04-30
muh fair competition muh freedom
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
The way you dress up your worship of the wealthy by pretending to care about the poor is a little obscene.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Lmao
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
u sure showed me
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Sorry here I couldn't muster the ability to take someone dressing up the belief system as 'worship of the wealthy' seriously.
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
I forgot, it's just coincidental that the preferred neoliberal policy in every conceivable situation happens to be what richers want.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Rich people want taxes on land, externalities, strong regulations surrounding natural monopolies and redistribution?
Can you show me this poll putting every single rich person onside with the belief system?
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
Oh look it's the bunch of shit you pretend to care about when threatened that none of you actually gives a real shit about.
Never seen that one before.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Oh ok, so you're making things up.
Legit you wouldn't find a single poster there not in favour of an ETS or a carbon tax, but you apparently know better in your infinite wisdom.
The neo-liberal carbon tax proposal in Washington state was taken down by the Greens btw. Maybe check your own side.
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
Lmao if you think I have a side.
I have no doubt that if put on the spot every poster there would pretend to care about an ETS or a carbon tax.
Meanwhile the overwhelming majority of actual comments/posts on the sub are jacking off to free trade and unfettered immigration, as per usual.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
The far left.
Oh ok. So you know what these people want better than them. Good on you lmao.
Both of which are massively welfare enhancing.
You're economically ignorant and clearly incapable of understand what the belief system is about, so you're projecting massively.
Hard to believe you're also on the far left.
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
I decided to go through your own posting history and see how many comments I could find supporting the shit you're pretending to care about.
I found two, in about a hundred shitposts jacking off to free trade and open borders.
For the richers you worship, yes.
Of course, it's so blind of me not to see that worshipping richers is the one true way.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen lmao.
'Your shitposts on Reddit are directly applicable to your beliefs'
FYI I actually do make concerted efforts to address climate change in my rl doings. But what would you know about htat?
Hahahahaha
Dude you're ridiculous. You're probably like 12 years old. This conversation is over, you're too stupid for it to be serious.
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
And you have a supermodel wife and a ten inch cock too, I'm sure.
Nah, the opinions you spend hours of your life expressing have nothing to do with your opinions, lmao
'Your shitposts on Reddit are directly applicable to your beliefs' lmao
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
I wasn't aware that 'makes concerted efforts to address climate change', something literally anyone can do, is somehow on the level of having a ten-inch dick and a supermodel wife. You know how I called you ridiculous? Yea that times a million.
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
I'm sorry, you declared the conversation over, but here you are still having it?
Keep going m8, the irony gets more and more delicious.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Conversations being over doesn't preclude me mocking you lmao
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
Hahaha holy shit you actually just said that.
And you of all people presume to lecture people on their economic best interests, sensational
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Yea I did haha well spotted
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
SICK comeback bro
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Sorry I just can't help myself. Autistic gets thrown around alot but I think it might actually apply to you.
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
You're the one who literally thinks you ended the conversation you're still having, bro.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Yea haha
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
Sorry I just can't help myself. Autistic gets thrown around alot but I think it might actually apply to you.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Yea that but unironically
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
But seriously, seek help for your 'tism.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Ok haha
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
But seriously, seek help. :(
n/a BANNED_FIVE_TIMES 2017-04-30
he really got to you huh
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
He hurt my feelings pretty bad, it's true :'(
n/a sombresobriquet 2017-04-30
I don't know why you engaged him in the first place. The entire basis of his "critique" of neoliberalism was "rich people like your policies", which was somehow axiomatically a bad thing.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
I thought there was something there. Turns out there isn't.
n/a tcw_sgs 2017-04-30
wait a second, are you actually retarded? i feel bad for you :(
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
Nah you're a neoliberal, you don't have real feelings.
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-04-30
Sure you support all that shit, but you write it all off as politically impossible and never attempt to actually get it enacted in real life. It's real easy to play that game.
n/a ErisIsMyGoddess 2017-04-30
Please leave to go lick the boot of your master and never come back. Kthx
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
This but unironically
n/a ErisIsMyGoddess 2017-04-30
Seriously kys
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Only if you suck my dick first
n/a ErisIsMyGoddess 2017-04-30
Indian dick is probably covered in shit due to lack of hygiene. Even animals know how to practice proper bathroom habits compared to the average Indian. no thanks.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Glorious White Upper-Middle class Australian dick. Only the finest for you, my friend.
n/a ErisIsMyGoddess 2017-04-30
You said you were born of disgusting Indians in another post.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
No friendo, racial purity only here.
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n/a Matues49 2017-04-30
Just come out of the statist closet as a proud AnCap already. You know you want to.
n/a zester90 2017-04-30
Fuck off, I like my borders and 1st world lifestyle.
n/a -Princeps- 2017-04-30
really causes a biochemical reaction in my cerebral cortex
n/a Dial_A_Dragon 2017-04-30
Sure, if you only care about raw GDP and nothing else, but that's a pretty shit way of measuring prosperity. Australia's GDP is growing quite well, but per capita wealth is declining and wages are stagnant.
n/a jvwoody 2017-04-30
There are other factors besides immigration that affect wage growth.
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
And you don't care about any of those, either.
n/a Kelsig 2017-04-30
....huh?
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Neither of those claims are true.
n/a Dial_A_Dragon 2017-04-30
Per capita wealth:
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=AU
Wage growth:
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/mf/6345.0
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-22/wage-growth-remains-at-record-lows/8293704
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Not sure what's going on with Worldbank, but it's not backed up elsewhere:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/gdp-per-capita
I'd also point out that wage growth being low means it is, by definition, not stagnant.
n/a Dial_A_Dragon 2017-04-30
Ah, sorry, I realised what went wrong. GDP per capita for Australia was measured against the USD, not in the local currency. Since the AUD has fallen a lot in value vs the USD since 2013 (~1.10 to 0.75 now), of course our GDP per capita in USD has fallen, but not in AUD:
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CN?locations=AU
Is a bit more reasonable.
And I'd point out one of the synonyms of stagnant is sluggish so technically I'm not wrong :smug:
n/a jvwoody 2017-04-30
FFS when you make your claim try control for exchange rates
n/a Dial_A_Dragon 2017-04-30
Y-yeah? Well:
a) you didn't notice until I admitted my own fuck-up
b) you didn't even dispute my original claim, unlike the other guy
e) since I don't live in the United States, and everything is bought and sold using USD in the international market, my cost of living effectively increases even if my per capita wealth and wage has kept up with inflation (unless I buy 100% made in Australia)
f) kys for making me effortpost in /r/drama
n/a siempreloco31 2017-04-30
lol
n/a Dial_A_Dragon 2017-04-30
I already said I dun goofed, stop bullying pls.
n/a siempreloco31 2017-04-30
sry bb
n/a raps_caucasionally 2017-04-30
The old /r/Drama "net gain" meme, I love it.
n/a nmx179 2017-04-30
n/a zester90 2017-04-30
You do realize you physically can't have positive population growth. Eventually growth will have stabilize or decline slowly. You're just reaping prosperity today from future generations. I bet you're the type who bitch about baby boomers being selfish too.
n/a Medical_Droid 2017-04-30
No way bruh, the global population and economy can increase exponentially for eternity, I've got graphs and shit. And if we fuck up too badly we'll have the autists in SV build a Mars colony and start over again.
n/a Why_Hello_Reddit 2017-04-30
Homogenous doesn't mean white. This kind of nonsense is why we can't have an adult discussion about immigration.
Most people I know who are reluctant to take in more immigrants are that way due to economic and security concerns. If the economy was booming with a strong job market, and everyone who stepped into this country was peaceful and eager to integrate, you would find very little opposition to more immigrants. Instead we have a weak job market with threats of automation on the horizon, and tons of terrorism taking place in Europe.
But nevermind all of that, it's easier to just margainalize people and chalk up everything to bigotry.
n/a SWIMsfriend 2017-04-30
so does slavery
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
No it doesn't. Slavery is terrible for long-run growth.
n/a ErisIsMyGoddess 2017-04-30
So does open boarders causing a flood of workers that drives down wages.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy
n/a ErisIsMyGoddess 2017-04-30
Oh thank god one guy, 100+ years ago made a statement about a ever evolving soft science. Now lets treat it as though it was a infallible commandment divinely given to us by god rather then looking around the present where wages are going down, and unemployment is going up.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Irrelevant laymans term.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/COMPRNFB
http://www.macrotrends.net/1377/u6-unemployment-rate
And on immigration:
https://www.nber.org/papers/w21123
https://www.nber.org/papers/w20093.pdf
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1542-4774.2011.01052.x/full
n/a ErisIsMyGoddess 2017-04-30
It's not a irrelevant term you fucking idiot, its a legit term to describe the field. You can't just look at a single statement from 1890 and assume it still applies today.
Can you actually form a argument that isn't just posting a ton of links? Critically thinking instead of regurgitating other peoples thoughts.
Look at the value of wages when adjusted for inflation and there is a very clear downtrend when though productivity has been increasing.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Yes, from ignorant laymen.
Yes
I don't need to. You need to, so you can understand where your opinions diverge from expert consensus.
They're inflation adjusted.
Because people use the wrong measurements:
https://www.minneapolisfed.org/publications/the-region/where-has-all-the-income-gone
n/a ErisIsMyGoddess 2017-04-30
Wow, absolutely no substances in this post then you sucking banker dick.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Banker dick is my favourite dick
n/a grateful_PoC 2017-04-30
Relying on constant population growth is a pyramid scheme and is destined for catastrophic failure.
n/a LemonScore 2017-04-30
(They don't)
n/a _beekay 2017-04-30
you are a dipshit, it's trivially obvious that it's a problem
i had an explanation typed but i'm gonna delete it because i don't want to encourage you to vomit any more idiot words from your stupid idiot face
n/a LemonScore 2017-04-30
wtf I love leftist "science" now
n/a _beekay 2017-04-30
yes, i have no doubt that mr "pure white societies are inherently superior" has great and enduring respect for truth, reasoning and the scientific process. specifically phrenology.
n/a Kelsig 2017-04-30
White genocide of course!
n/a Let_you_down 2017-04-30
Importing aliens is mostly just important for making the mayocide types more butthurt.
n/a 18aidanme 2017-04-30
btw Japan's population decline is caused by their work culture, not xenophobia.
n/a sneaky_giraffe 2017-04-30
They are very xenophobic though and it affects their immigration laws.
n/a JasonJewnova 2017-04-30
You say that like its a bad thing
n/a grateful_PoC 2017-04-30
You don't like inbred 3rd world cultists who like to marry children? BIGOT! NAZI!
n/a bbootz 2017-04-30
This but unironically.
n/a SWIMsfriend 2017-04-30
they are a lot more welcoming towards immigrants compared to the Holocaust survivors that run the ethno-natinonalist state of israel where they sterilize the immigrants that end up getting past the 100 meter high wall around the entire country.
n/a Kelsig 2017-04-30
ok
n/a Vendetta55 2017-04-30
Muslims were responsible for 24% of all terrorist attacks in the U.S and here are some German crime statistics showing that people from Muslim majority countries commit a disproportionate amount of crime.
n/a MegaSeedsInYourBum 2017-04-30
Yeah but this is mostly a middle eastern thing and not a Muslim as a whole thing. The Middle East is a violent shithole but Indonesia really isn't bad even though they have the most Muslims of any country. Yeah Indonesia does have problems but nowhere near the level of the Middle East.
n/a ErisIsMyGoddess 2017-04-30
So you're saying middle eastern shouldn't be allowed in because they are uncivilized savages who cause problems. Because you're into something, if you are.
n/a JasonJewnova 2017-04-30
Muslims are poo matey, fuck off
n/a LuigiVargasLlosa 2017-04-30
Belgium is very low on that list
n/a LemonScore 2017-04-30
You aren't counting other crime commited by immigrants or crime covered up by the police/media.
Do you remember that during the Danish cartoon drama some Danish Muslims went on a trip to the middle east to help spread hate and inspire Islamist violence and faced no repercussions at all?
Given European police and politicians covering for immigrant crime how much shit that the natives have to deal with goes unseen?
n/a Qgqqqqq 2017-04-30
Nor does anyone else in the Western world.
n/a Kelsig 2017-04-30
Terrorist attacks don't matter.
n/a JasonJewnova 2017-04-30
Non-whites don't matter.
n/a grateful_PoC 2017-04-30
Funny how all the darkies basically admit white supremacy every time they enter out countries and neighborhoods.
n/a thankmrmacaroon 2017-04-30
o rly
n/a Ultrashitpost 2017-04-30
Someone already mentioned it and i was very well aware of the Sarin attacks.
That's homegrown though. No foreign terrorists.
n/a HAHApointsatyou 2017-04-30
inb4 u/Lemonscore drops a four paragraph seriouscomment about the evils of immigration on us...
n/a LemonScore 2017-04-30
Someone needs mandatory sensitivity training, this bigotry will not stand.
n/a HAHApointsatyou 2017-04-30
If it's any consolation, your illegal immigrant rapist status has warmed me to the virtues of building a wall.
We must secure r/drama's borders before it's too late!
n/a Thyrotoxic 2017-04-30
This picture seems to be a pretty good promotion for mayocide.
n/a Betterdead_denred 2017-04-30
Redditor "neoliberals" love immigration until it comes to H1B programmers and doctors coming over from India
n/a alibix 2017-04-30
neoliberals like immigration except when they don't that's the whole fucking point
n/a Ultrashitpost 2017-04-30
My neighbor liked immigration until i moved in next door and smashed her windows.
n/a alibix 2017-04-30
see now you're neoliberal
n/a Ultrashitpost 2017-04-30
I thought i was just an asshole, but i'm glad my rude behaviour has an economic justification.
n/a alibix 2017-04-30
well I mean now you're in jail/deported
n/a Ultrashitpost 2017-04-30
No, that would be racist.
n/a alibix 2017-04-30
not when you're neoliberal
n/a dexceit 2017-04-30
why did you just reiterate what the guy above you said?
n/a alibix 2017-04-30
I don't know he said it like it was a bad thing or that it was hypocritical to like immigration except when you don't
n/a dexceit 2017-04-30
so you're a neoliberal?
n/a alibix 2017-04-30
Eh, maybe. I see the benefits of it
n/a forlackofabetterword 2017-04-30
In the spirit of globalization, we now have actual immigrants spreading our open borders ideology so that we aren't hippocrites anymore
n/a ElvenAshwin 2017-04-30
The subreddit is very pro-H1B as well
n/a Betterdead_denred 2017-04-30
ah, it must just be shareblue employees then
n/a Qgqqqqq 2017-04-30
Yup!
Pay is pretty good, though not sure how they're dealing with the recent inflation.
n/a Kelsig 2017-04-30
What does this sentence mean
n/a deaduntil 2017-04-30
Well, that's a distortion. We would prefer no H1B limits or even better no limits at all. I think the current H1B system is bizarre, dysfunctional, and gives employers too much power, but better than no skilled immigration system at all.
n/a DTATDM 2017-04-30
Neoliberal here.
More H1B immigrants, more Indian doctors please.
n/a DracoX872 2017-04-30
lmfao I'm the mod and my parents literally came here on an H1B from India
n/a JasonJewnova 2017-04-30
POO
n/a DracoX872 2017-04-30
IN
n/a Dial_A_Dragon 2017-04-30
LOO
n/a SWIMsfriend 2017-04-30
n/a DracoX872 2017-04-30
Really? I think socialists would go straight to Starbucks before 7/11
n/a ErisIsMyGoddess 2017-04-30
India independence was a mistake. You guys don't deserve it yet, can't master the poo in loo.
n/a throwittomebro 2017-04-30
Ah, so the whole open borders issue is just a tribal thing for you. It all makes sense now.
n/a bleasehalb 2017-04-30
I'm not sure how progressive it is to bring over hordes of desperate 3rd world workers that get turned into an economic and racial underclass, all for the sake of economic growth.
n/a MyrLeaf 2017-04-30
Looks good on my tweeter feed.
n/a DTATDM 2017-04-30
I am not in favor of increased immigration "for the sake of economic growth". I'm in favor of immigration since it gives the global poor, at least those that do manage to immigrate, a better life.
It just so happens that they also provide an economic benefit to the society they immigrate to. This is important to note since people opposed to immigration (read: xenophobes that hate poor people) often pretend to be opposed to immigration for economic reasons.
n/a SWIMsfriend 2017-04-30
slaves had better conditions working in the US than they did dying ni Africa, should we allow slavery again?
n/a P0lymorpher 2017-04-30
Wait, are you for real? Sure, they probably had simpler lives with less technology in Africa but there they weren't forced to work every day under horrible conditions and be separated from their families.
n/a DTATDM 2017-04-30
What the fuck, did you really just compare foreigners being free to choose if they came to the US to chattel slavery?
This is your brain on ideology kids.
n/a Thhueros 2017-04-30
Shitlibs don't to use zizek.
n/a forlackofabetterword 2017-04-30
Many slaves were taken through "slave catching" trips inland by white merchants in which they would snatch blacks almost directly from their homes. Others were bought from black slave owners, who generally treated their slaves with a basic level of respect. Africans generally had fairly sophisticated civilizations up until colonial conquest (although there were obviously different situations in different regions) and generally avoided famine and plague as much as any other population of that time period.
By comparison, many slaves were brought to the new world to be killed. Fully 97% of the slaves brought over from Africa were sent south of the US. The large sugar plantations of the Carribean were extremely dangerous to work at and would usually kill slaves within a few months of working there. Slave drivers knew this, and would fcous on getting as much work out of each slave as they could before they dropped dead.
So contradictory to your claim, Africans, even those enslaved while in Africa, did much better in Africa than they did in the New World, where they were often put into a system designed to profit off their suffering and death.
n/a LemonScore 2017-04-30
Thanks, leftist education!
n/a ErisIsMyGoddess 2017-04-30
So Bundy was right when he said black people were better off as slaves.
n/a SWIMsfriend 2017-04-30
married with children needs to come back
n/a deaduntil 2017-04-30
Slaves weren't "dying in Africa," what an absurd comment. Black people were doing fine in Africa. The transatlantic transportation of slaves killed 40% of those captured; then most were transported to plantations in the Caribbean and Brazil and died within 7 years.
"Better working conditions" my ass that's freaking ignorant. Slavery is basically the most extractive anti-neoliberal institution possible.
n/a SWIMsfriend 2017-04-30
free market! no regulations!
n/a deaduntil 2017-04-30
Slavery wasn't unregulated. It was extraordinarily regulated. If it was "unregulated", the state wouldn't have recognized property rights in people and enforced such property rights with the police power of the state.
What "unregulated" slavery looks like: [slave runs away to police "help pls this man kidnapped me." police: okay, to jail with kidnapper.]
n/a ANUSBLASTER_MKII 2017-04-30
It also deprives third world nations of economic growth too, as everyone who could contribute has fucked off to another country.
n/a Pastorality 2017-04-30
n/a SavannaJeff 2017-04-30
You should look up 'remittance' in the dictionary.
n/a ANUSBLASTER_MKII 2017-04-30
That's implying people don't move with their family.
n/a OnlyRacistOnReddit 2017-04-30
Ah yes, money being sent back to your family in your home country that drives up the costs of goods and services for other people in their community increasing their poverty level... Great answer.
n/a SavannaJeff 2017-04-30
You clearly don't understand economics.
n/a OnlyRacistOnReddit 2017-04-30
Maybe you should go into these third world countries and see how it actually is. I understand economics very well, but theory and practical results are not the same things.
n/a SavannaJeff 2017-04-30
You don't know dick.
n/a throwittomebro 2017-04-30
Let's try not water it down /u/DTATDM, you're not just for increased immigration, you're in favor of full blown open borders.
n/a skyrmion 2017-04-30
it's not unreasonable to believe the economic and racial underclass they join in the US would still offer more opportunities and a better quality of life than where they emmigrated from.
n/a bleasehalb 2017-04-30
Perhaps some make it, but for the most part it seems like poor demographics stay poor for generations. Creating ethnic underclasses like this breeds resentment in both the immigrant population and the native population that has to compete with them. Plus, the 1st generation that remembers how bad it was in their home countries might see their current status as an improvement, but the subsequent generations often resent the lack of opportunities to escape their poverty and turn to gangs or radicalized religion. It's really hard to solve this issue, far harder than letting poor immigrants in(not saying I'm opposed to immigration, rich and poor).
n/a noelsusman 2017-04-30
That's why we should also have policies that break the cycle of poverty. Say, a negative income tax, a robust education system, and universal healthcare. You're making the case for why having a poor underclass is bad, not the case for why immigration is bad.
n/a bleasehalb 2017-04-30
My point is that immigration balloons up the portion of society in the underclass, with the powers that brought them over having a good reason to keep them poor. Going "just make policies that let the poor minorities rise up" is naive.
n/a LemonScore 2017-04-30
Many European countries have these and it isn't helping.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Barriers to emigration from low-skill countries are the largest global economic distortion in existence, around two orders of magnitude larger than every single trade barrier combined.
People in the third world can make their own choices if we drop barriers to movement. This leftist paternalism is disgusting nonsense.
n/a Kelsig 2017-04-30
We're capitalists, not progressives.
n/a throwittomebro 2017-04-30
So you're libertarians.
n/a Kelsig 2017-04-30
No, I want a world government to steal everyone's guns to use to take rich people's money and use it on infrastructure and social programs
n/a Trepur349 2017-04-30
and for the sake of improving the lives of those desperate 3rd world workers. Is that not admirable?
n/a bleasehalb 2017-04-30
Like I said the improvement is relative, as the subsequent generations find that they're in a crappy situation without anything worse to compare it too. Those subsequent generations often stay poor.
It's admirable I guess, but let's not pretend that main motive here is cheap labor and profit.
n/a timsboss 2017-04-30
Because the Irish, Italians, Germans, etc all stayed poor when they immigrated to the US, right?
n/a OnlyRacistOnReddit 2017-04-30
Different century, different issues, but have you ever considered why the big gangs in NYC during that period were Irish and Italian?
n/a timsboss 2017-04-30
And?
n/a OnlyRacistOnReddit 2017-04-30
It didn't work out very well for several generations, if it weren't for prohibition and the money they made from bootlegging, the Irish probably would still be second class citizens. The Italians made their bones in America through unions and organized crime.
If you actually had any sense of history you'd know that those were extremely hard transitions and at a much different pace. If the current immigration was coming into a country growing as rapidly as the USA was at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century, then that would be less concerning, but it's not. We are also experiencing immigration levels that are completely unsustainable.
n/a timsboss 2017-04-30
Every single time there has been wave of immigrants people say the exact thing you're saying right now. It was said about Jews and East Asians, groups that now out earn whites. Less than a century ago we had Arnold Rothstein, Meyer Lansky and Bugsy Siegel. Now we have Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, and Elena Kagan.
n/a Randank 2017-04-30
Not for long, liberal. Their replacements can't can't come soon enough. Hopefully, we can reverse all the damage the left has done to this country.
n/a timsboss 2017-04-30
Liberal? You couldn't be further from the truth on that one. All I'm saying here is that their massive over representation on the Supreme Court reflects well on the Jewish community. I'm still eagerly awaiting the next death of a liberal justice, Gorsuch was one of the few good things to come from Trump's victory.
n/a grateful_PoC 2017-04-30
There are billions of them.
n/a Trepur349 2017-04-30
Africa will also be much richer by the end of the century
n/a LemonScore 2017-04-30
No, because you're ruining the lives of native people in western countries.
n/a Trepur349 2017-04-30
Not really. No evidence that immigration pushes down native wages
n/a throwittomebro 2017-04-30
Borjas.
n/a subpoutine 2017-04-30
/u/hellschatt, this is so kind-numbingly retarded I don't know where to start. Please never talk about statistics again.
n/a hellschatt 2017-04-30
You're right, I was a little bit fast while writing this and didn't think this through lol
n/a hyledog 2017-04-30
This is r/drama you're supposed to dig your heels in the ground and irrationally scream about things not rationally admit fault
n/a Cittera 2017-04-30
The American left absolutely hate their own poor people for some reason
That whole thread is basically "fuck you for being unemployed, fuck you for being uneducated, fuck you for being addicted to drugs, fuck you for not wanting to be replaced by cheaper labor"
That thread is useful because usually there is a thicker veneer where "fuck you poor people" hides because "we want to help immigrants :(((((" but they're not really pretending this time
n/a Plutonium-Lore 2017-04-30
Every group in America hates those fucking poors, including the poors
n/a xbettel 2017-04-30
Why do you hate the global poor?
n/a Cittera 2017-04-30
I don't, but I feel that we have a greater responsibility to our own poor than another nation's
I mean, if you're not going to look out for your own community then what's the point
n/a xbettel 2017-04-30
The point is improve everybody economy. Nationalist is a disease and fucks everybody.
n/a flooptrooper 2017-04-30
so you're an internationalist?
n/a wOLFman4987 2017-04-30
Maybe you'd prefer a global society with centralized power and banking systems, where your freedoms have been stripped to nothing, and humanity are slaves?
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
This but unironically.
n/a tcw_sgs 2017-04-30
FTFY
n/a Kelsig 2017-04-30
YEA
n/a xbettel 2017-04-30
Come to the light
n/a xbettel 2017-04-30
Come to the light
n/a throwittomebro 2017-04-30
That's kind of the end goal for them isn't it?
n/a throwittomebro 2017-04-30
They see the state as an obstacle and seek to remove it through whatever means necessary. To neoliberals the state == nationalism.
n/a LemonScore 2017-04-30
Do you think that people in China/India/Pakistan etc aren't nationalist?
n/a xbettel 2017-04-30
They are better after globalization.
n/a Mort_DeRire 2017-04-30
It's not zero sum. By looking out for other communities, we look out for our own. By improving the productivity and wealth of other nations we improve everybody's situation, including our own.
n/a paulatreides0 2017-04-30
What if I told you economics isn't zero sum and helping the foreign poor helps the American poor?
n/a nomad1c 2017-04-30
how
n/a timsboss 2017-04-30
Comparative advantage.
n/a nomad1c 2017-04-30
would you say foreign poor have been getting slowly richer the last few decades?
n/a Works_of_memercy 2017-04-30
Yeah, an immigrant coming to work in the US sure exploits some comparative advantage which indirectly helps local poors. Keep yourself safe, friend.
n/a timsboss 2017-04-30
You have no clue how much more expensive just about everything would be if we didn't have cheap immigrant labor.
n/a Works_of_memercy 2017-04-30
But that's not "comparative advantage", that's exploitation plain and simple. And it's worse than actual employment for local workers.
n/a timsboss 2017-04-30
Exploitation is a bullshit concept. It ends with the isolation of the global poor.
n/a Works_of_memercy 2017-04-30
No, "helping the global poor" in a way that ENTIRELY COINCIDENTALLY gives you a shitton of cheapest stuff produced for cents an hour, no safety or environmental regulations, or social security is total hypocritical bullshit.
If you want to help the global poor, legalize all immigrants and make sure that they receive the same benefits as the natives for starters, and let the comparative advantages work for themselves. If you don't like that or don't think that it would work, then don't hide behind "I just want to help" bullshit, say that you like exploitation and cheap stuff.
n/a timsboss 2017-04-30
I like free trade and open borders. People should be allowed to migrate where they want and trade with who they want, period. The fact that those policies uplift the global poor and make cheap stuff is great, but I'd support those policies even if they didn't. I don't believe in exploitation.
n/a Works_of_memercy 2017-04-30
Yeah, the problem arises when on one hand you say that sure, we shouldn't allow employers to offer an opportunity to work in asbestos mines without respirators for $1/hr, because some desperate people would do that and die horribly, instead we should have mandatory safety regulations and minimal wage and social safety net for the unemployed, and as long as mining asbestos remains profitable, the employers will be forced to give the workers all that.
But on the other hand if it's some Jose who can't complain to the police about OSHA violations because he'd get deported, or because it's the Jose over there where they don't have OSHA, you're all like yay cheap asbestos :D
n/a paulatreides0 2017-04-30
Economics isn't zero sum.
n/a nomad1c 2017-04-30
have you seen US wages over the last few decades?
n/a paulatreides0 2017-04-30
Yes. Have you seen real compensation? Or the price of goods? Or any of a bunch of other metrics for standard of living beyond wages that demonstrate that the average person is demonstrably better off than they were 20 years ago (which is impressive in and of itself given that there was a massive recession ~10 years ago)?
n/a nomad1c 2017-04-30
why have you gone from talking about low wage workers to talking about the country as a whole?
http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/
n/a xKillerDreag 2017-04-30
Forced Americanization occured, and when it didn't occur, it lead to ethnic enclavez which is currently discussed as economically detrimental.
Immigration is good for the economy. Retarded immigration policies aren't (in the long term).
n/a bat_mayn 2017-04-30
n/a Kirkaine 2017-04-30
Big if true
n/a DannyLee90 2017-04-30
What's the point of seriousposting on /r/Drama, you stupid git.
n/a zester90 2017-04-30
I don't. I care about myself, my family, my friends, and my country more though.
n/a xbettel 2017-04-30
Selfist.
n/a zester90 2017-04-30
That's exactly what I am. Do you give away all the money in your wallet when you see a homeless guy? If you had to press 1 of 2 buttons - one would kill your closest loved one, the other would kill 2 random people you don't know, which would you push? We're all selfish to a certain extent.
n/a xbettel 2017-04-30
I would give him a job, so we would both generate money for ourselves.
n/a zester90 2017-04-30
Except he can't find a job because of all the immigrants flooding the low-skilled labor market. Also the excess supply of labor forces wages down so even if he did land a job he wouldn't make as much money.
n/a patchyprincess 2017-04-30
How many refugees and poor imigrants live in your house? Come on fam, you're not racist are you?
n/a xbettel 2017-04-30
Why would they live in my house? They can work and rent/buy one.
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
The global economy isn't zero-sum.
n/a patchyprincess 2017-04-30
How does a lower-middle class worker benefit from immigration when it only increases the amount of competition he has to worry about and decrease the actual wages he can expect?
n/a darkaceAUS 2017-04-30
Because it pushes the supply and demand curves out
n/a timsboss 2017-04-30
They benefit by having more young productive workers helping to pay for the baby boomer's retirements. Immigration is the primary reason why the US isn't facing the same demographic crisis that Japan is.
n/a CuriousKrow 2017-04-30
No it's not. Japan's facing a demographic crisis because of their insane work culture, and the fact men and women are going after that sweet 2-D waifu bussy instead of real relationships.
n/a timsboss 2017-04-30
Nope. The birth rate for non hispanic whites is 1.76 children per woman.
n/a CuriousKrow 2017-04-30
I'm talking about japan. Talking about about white birth rates in japan is talking about like .05 % of their population. That won't really affect their population too much at that low amount.
n/a timsboss 2017-04-30
I'm talking about the US. The non hispanic white birth rate in the US is 1.76, which is below replacement. That results in a demographic crisis.
n/a JasonJewnova 2017-04-30
Still salty over Brexit I see? LEL
n/a UnlikelySoccerStar 2017-04-30
This from a person rocking a literal swastika. That's like a sign that says 'not only am I racist, I'm also even dumber than communists.'
n/a JasonJewnova 2017-04-30
K
n/a UnlikelySoccerStar 2017-04-30
KK
you dropped these.
n/a JasonJewnova 2017-04-30
Sank you sah
n/a UnlikelySoccerStar 2017-04-30
Ja.
n/a grateful_PoC 2017-04-30
The global poor don't deserve to sleep in my bed and eat my food.
n/a zester90 2017-04-30
It sucks to be poor in America right now. The right never cared about you, and now the left has dumped you for immigrants.
n/a Mark_Kozelek 2017-04-30
"Democrats will stab you in the back, Republicans will stab you in the front"
n/a ieatpussy69 2017-04-30
r/neoliberal isn't the American left, we hate those pigfuckers too
n/a UnlikelySoccerStar 2017-04-30
Well we feel the same about you policy selling whores too.
n/a ieatpussy69 2017-04-30
What is policy selling?
n/a UnlikelySoccerStar 2017-04-30
Something as sensible as calling all of us pigfuckers.
n/a ieatpussy69 2017-04-30
Okay?
n/a Blocked_ID 2017-04-30
Most people are neoliberals, they just won't know it until their populist policies shit themselves.
n/a ieatpussy69 2017-04-30
What exactly is a "populist policy"?
n/a Blocked_ID 2017-04-30
Trump's border wall, the suspension of the TPP, Bernie's healthcare "plan," a $15 federal minimum wage. Really any big shiny promise a politician dangles in front of voters to gain support despite it being completely infeasible.
n/a ieatpussy69 2017-04-30
Obama made bold promises and followed through, and he had a very succesful and popular presidency. Whatever happened to change we can believe in?
Now look at you, mewling on about electoral colleges and Russian hackers, and with absolutely nothing to offer anyone.
n/a Blocked_ID 2017-04-30
The difference is that they were feasible, and they for the most part worked; for another example of reasonable, progressive campaign promises, see Hillary Clinton.
What exactly am I supposed to offer anyone? I'm not a politician, just an American dismayed at how pathetic we've become.
n/a ieatpussy69 2017-04-30
What were Clinton's promises?
n/a Blocked_ID 2017-04-30
Reforms addressing flaws and oversights in the ACA, including a possible public option.
The New College Compact, which would have made attending public universities and community colleges debt free for lower and middle class students.
Raising the minimum wage to more reasonable $12. (Which personally I am still skeptical of.)
Liberalized immigration reform, including a path to citizenship for the undocumented.
Making closing the pay gap a priority.
Overturning Citizen's United, reestablishing limits on corporate involvement in electoral contests.
Expanding background checks for gun purchasers.
n/a OccasionallyClueless 2017-04-30
Ditch your hometown, bro. Sure, you grew up during it's waning years and want to see it restored for its former glory so that your kids and fellow neighbors can enjoy it and the life it offers. But fuck that and move to the city and do clerical work instead.
n/a Serenikill 2017-04-30
But the left argues for social programs like health care, even for those addicted to drugs etc. And for more money to public schools.
It's more about embracing the reality that these jobs aren't magically coming back.
n/a throwittomebro 2017-04-30
I get upset that my local school board is spending money on things like education instead of malaria mitigation in third world countries. Why do you hate the poor?
n/a TooManyBlackSwans 2017-04-30
You are still saying stupid things like this because you are a stupid person.
n/a throwittomebro 2017-04-30
Just doing my part looking out for the global poor.
n/a OrangePeals 2017-04-30
I'm sure, Japan does prove immigrants are worthless ans that the (((government))) are intentionally suppressing american education to fiddle the statistics to allow more non-aryans into the country, but c'mon this is supposed to be a lulzy sub not a political one.
n/a HuckleberryFN2187 2017-04-30
Honestly I agree with that. I live very close to blue-collar rural white america and it has no future. It's not even worth saving.
n/a zester90 2017-04-30
Love how report trolling is becoming more and more common.
n/a grungebot5000 2017-04-30
thank god for /r/neoliberal
it's about time somebody said what we're all thinkin
n/a thank_mr_skeltal_bot 2017-04-30
also thank mr skeltal for good bones and calcium*
n/a grungebot5000 2017-04-30
no thank you, not today
n/a xbettel 2017-04-30
Some nazis ot triggered
n/a Divinech33zburger 2017-04-30
https://i.redd.it/2v4bhf0cu0uy.jpg
n/a DracoX872 2017-04-30
This is why we have the best memes
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-04-30
ITT: out of touch neoliberals fighting prejudiced right-wing assholes
n/a Mort_DeRire 2017-04-30
And yet somehow you're still the wrongest of them all
n/a JasonJewnova 2017-04-30
Says the cum sucking anarchist.
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-04-30
I don't understand how the fuck neoliberals get upvoted so much here though. The right wrong stuff would be nothing new of course.
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-04-30
I get the anti-SRD "let's be edgy" impulses and especially the drive to make fun of the excesses of the social justice stuff. The unironic neoliberal stuff doesn't make a lot of sense to me either though. I guess it's contrarianism, maybe? This sub doesn't really go in for that though.
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-04-30
Meh, maybe just people clicking through and brigading. Just comes off as straight up retarded. Happens often with communist/anarchist stuff too, but it attracts so much attention that they get heavily outnumbered and you end up with like 150 comments in 4 hours.
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-04-30
The "sweatshops are great actually" circlejerk is really something else though. If you can imagine a British colonial officer giving your exact same spiel in Africa in 1910 then you're probably not doing good in the world.
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-04-30
I love illegal immigrants since they work for nothing and I can pay the guys that do physical labor for me cheaper, oops, I mean, because I care about humanity and borders are racist!
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-04-30
Don't forget their memes blaming poor whites for the opioid crisis. That is fucking sociopathic.
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-04-30
There is literally nothing not fucking sociopathic about it. Even better is they think they are morally superior from that tower of theirs. Literally racist and outright having hatred for entire groups of people and treating them subhuman and calling all their critics racist at the same time is a beautiful touch.
Muh GDP is a nice touch as though that works on anyone that isn't stupid and thinks it over for more than a few minutes.
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-04-30
Their strategy is basically to talk about GDP, then you point out that in a society distributions and not just averages are important (I'd rather have an exactly equal society where everyone made $30,000 a year than a society where half were out on the streets and half made $60,000, and it's not because I'm on the far left either), and they move to talk about how inequality drives innovation, then you point out that's definitely not true when inequality is at Gilded Age levels and tens of millions are going without sufficient health care, and then they move to some other argument, and so on.
They aren't really attached to any one line of argument which is telling. I think a lot of them deep down just are looking for any excuse to bash the less fortunate and promote the technocratic financial & political class which has fucked up our society so much in the last few decades. I have no respect for them whatsoever.
n/a serialflamingo 2017-04-30
I just dislike how they try and act as if defending capitalism is like edgy or subversive. It's like the contrarianism has gone full circle or something.
n/a Works_of_memercy 2017-04-30
This might surprise you, but I for example upvote not based on ideological alignment, but on not sounding like a stuck up asshole.
n/a birdboy2000 2017-04-30
So how on earth do you ever upvote anything?
n/a Works_of_memercy 2017-04-30
I guess it's what I see as stuck up assholes, as opposed for example to zesty, eloquent assholes!
n/a Mexagon 2017-04-30
Wow you're so much better than all of them.
n/a ieatpussy69 2017-04-30
Working a shitty job for low pay is the best quality a person can have.
n/a Pepperglue 2017-04-30
This is what has been bothering me these days. I keep hearing talks about how no illegal would mean our labor market would collapse. Does that mean we are to tolerate our businesses exploit the illegals? I thought we are supposed to stop such exploitation?
n/a serialflamingo 2017-04-30
Yes, the native population had the opportunity to allow themselves to be exploited, but there are always people from poorer countries who will be grateful for the scraps (they're from poor shitholes, they'll never know the difference! Tee hee!)
n/a patchyprincess 2017-04-30
just kill me now
n/a bat_mayn 2017-04-30
Thanks for linking me to that subreddit, if I ever decide I want to go on a legitimate killing spree, I know where to start now.
n/a OccasionallyClueless 2017-04-30
See, now you're thinking with Neoliberalism!