Do you know the WELL? I believe the (one of the?) first time they had to ban this user "Stink" for doxxing (maybe?) and harrasing women using the WELL, and it created a whole kerfluffle. Happened in the mid 80s. There were online services and BBS' before the WELL, but I think this might be the first high profile banning online.
This is discussed a bit in "From Counterculture to Cyberculture" by Fred Turner, and "Cyberia: Life in the trenches of Hyperspace" by Douglas Rushkoff. Real books. But I'm having a hard time finding world wide web discussions of these events from like '86. And they're all pretty dry, you don't get a feel for how pissed off users were at the time, both about "Stink" and his banning. Technically the WELL still exists, but IDK if I got a subscription if they'd have old logs,.
I know about the WELL, but that seems like it'd be a really difficult find since you can't access it like you can usenet. You could contact someone and ask if a subscription includes access to the old logs, but aren't the subscriptions pretty pricey? Shame 'cause mid 80's online drama sounds pretty great.
The citation on that paragraph is this incredibly 90s thing.
heehee, I've posted this on /r/internetcollection. The WELL users have written a lot of interesting essays about online communities.
And yeah, The WELL is still pricey compared to SA or something, $15 a month. It used to be more when it was not on the WWW I think.
Yeah, it's not all that much in the scheme of things, but for a forum that's a price that you probably would only pay if you're really committed to the community. iirc the WELL changed hands because it wasn't making enough money to stay afloat, so I guess they really need to charge that much for upkeep, though.
I still haven't found more evidence of this Stink character.
I did reread an article that either I read before or Fred Turner relied on quite a bit, because it seemed familiar. This wired article claims the first ban from the WELL was "Mark Ethan Smith," a classic man hating feminist that exists in 80s movies, and real life in Berkeley apparently.
(I'm using he, its what he preferred online. I don't see people using the word Trans, but I think that's not a terrible description. No penis tho, not down with that.)
The line he crossed was calling people on their home phones to yell at them when his hundred line flames didn't quite satisfy. He later went to usenet ([email protected]), where he decried the WELL operators as "nazi penis worshipers."
So says the article, but I can't find that post. I think pre-1991 google groups may not be comprehensive.
This must be near when he lost his WELL account:
Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbatt!cbosgd!ucbvax!ucbarpa.Berkeley.EDU!fair
From: [email protected] (Erik E. Fair)
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.net-people
Subject: Mark Ethan Smith has a change of Address
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 29-Sep-86 14:52:02 EDT
Article-I.D.: ucbvax.15861
Posted: Mon Sep 29 14:52:02 1986
Date-Received: Tue, 30-Sep-86 21:00:23 EDT
Sender: [email protected]
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Lines: 5
Xref: watmath soc.women:134 soc.net-people:13
I have been requested to inform you that if you are a correspondent of
Mark Ethan Smith <[email protected]>, this person can no longer be
reached at that Email address. Mark can now be reached at <reason@m-
net.UUCP>
Erik E. Fair ucbvax!fair [email protected]
So says the article, but I can't find that post. I think pre-1991 google groups may not be comprehensive.
Google groups has pre '91 usenet posts, but I think you have to search for the exact title. Or maybe they're just not all there, yeah. It also doesn't seem to return results past one page, which sucks donkey dick.
You should post more usenet drama, it's always nice to see that early internet users were just as petty as we are today.
With google groups its hard to get a good starting point for Mark E Smith drama, most of the messages stored seem to be after his heyday. By 88, Mark had already been sued (won the case), and sued the government because some people flaming him were using federal computers (lost the case).
8 comments
n/a SnapshillBot 2017-05-17
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n/a 39flws 2017-05-17
Snally-sempai, I have a requesuto.
Do you know the WELL? I believe the (one of the?) first time they had to ban this user "Stink" for doxxing (maybe?) and harrasing women using the WELL, and it created a whole kerfluffle. Happened in the mid 80s. There were online services and BBS' before the WELL, but I think this might be the first high profile banning online.
This is discussed a bit in "From Counterculture to Cyberculture" by Fred Turner, and "Cyberia: Life in the trenches of Hyperspace" by Douglas Rushkoff. Real books. But I'm having a hard time finding world wide web discussions of these events from like '86. And they're all pretty dry, you don't get a feel for how pissed off users were at the time, both about "Stink" and his banning. Technically the WELL still exists, but IDK if I got a subscription if they'd have old logs,.
n/a snallygaster 2017-05-17
I know about the WELL, but that seems like it'd be a really difficult find since you can't access it like you can usenet. You could contact someone and ask if a subscription includes access to the old logs, but aren't the subscriptions pretty pricey? Shame 'cause mid 80's online drama sounds pretty great.
n/a 39flws 2017-05-17
Fred Turner's book says they banned 3 accounts in the first 6 years, but always unbanned after some time. IDK if Stinky was before or after that.
The citation on that paragraph is this incredibly 90s thing.
Too lazy to read it right now.
And yeah, The WELL is still pricey compared to SA or something, $15 a month. It used to be more when it was not on the WWW.
n/a snallygaster 2017-05-17
heehee, I've posted this on /r/internetcollection. The WELL users have written a lot of interesting essays about online communities.
Yeah, it's not all that much in the scheme of things, but for a forum that's a price that you probably would only pay if you're really committed to the community. iirc the WELL changed hands because it wasn't making enough money to stay afloat, so I guess they really need to charge that much for upkeep, though.
n/a 39flws 2017-05-17
I still haven't found more evidence of this Stink character.
I did reread an article that either I read before or Fred Turner relied on quite a bit, because it seemed familiar. This wired article claims the first ban from the WELL was "Mark Ethan Smith," a classic man hating feminist that exists in 80s movies, and real life in Berkeley apparently.
(I'm using he, its what he preferred online. I don't see people using the word Trans, but I think that's not a terrible description. No penis tho, not down with that.)
The line he crossed was calling people on their home phones to yell at them when his hundred line flames didn't quite satisfy. He later went to usenet ([email protected]), where he decried the WELL operators as "nazi penis worshipers."
So says the article, but I can't find that post. I think pre-1991 google groups may not be comprehensive.
This must be near when he lost his WELL account: Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbatt!cbosgd!ucbvax!ucbarpa.Berkeley.EDU!fair From: [email protected] (Erik E. Fair) Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.net-people Subject: Mark Ethan Smith has a change of Address Message-ID: <[email protected]> Date: Mon, 29-Sep-86 14:52:02 EDT Article-I.D.: ucbvax.15861 Posted: Mon Sep 29 14:52:02 1986 Date-Received: Tue, 30-Sep-86 21:00:23 EDT Sender: [email protected] Distribution: na Organization: University of California at Berkeley Lines: 5 Xref: watmath soc.women:134 soc.net-people:13
So much drama with them on Usenet tho.
n/a snallygaster 2017-05-17
Google groups has pre '91 usenet posts, but I think you have to search for the exact title. Or maybe they're just not all there, yeah. It also doesn't seem to return results past one page, which sucks donkey dick.
You should post more usenet drama, it's always nice to see that early internet users were just as petty as we are today.
n/a 39flws 2017-05-17
With google groups its hard to get a good starting point for Mark E Smith drama, most of the messages stored seem to be after his heyday. By 88, Mark had already been sued (won the case), and sued the government because some people flaming him were using federal computers (lost the case).
I posted something though.