but in all honesty, why would anyone wanna bring up venezuela, either as proof for or against socialism?
Venezuela has been a shitty country from it's inception, just cus they try to make socialism work with a busted-ass shitty 3rd world banana bureaucracy doesn't mean they should at all be the posterchild for the system...
Bringing it up as proof against socialism is silly cus they never really had socialism to begin with, they had rulers claiming to do shit for the people, but just ending up bumbling shit due to being corrupt as fuck.
It's a strawman argument cus nobody points to venezuela as the prime example of socialism.
If you look back a few years, internet socialists would always point to it as an example of socialism working and liberating countries from the evil American capitalists. Now that it stopped working it became notsocialism. Same happens with every self-proclaimed socialist country, including the USSR, Cuba, etc...
well, there's the issue, you think simply cus they call themselves socialist doesn't mean they are.
Russia is, and always has been, an oligarchy, run by families, and by clans before that.
Cuba is a dictatorship, look at the white socialist countries, sweden, denmark, all the really smart white people countries make it work.
wtf...
You have to look at the countries, look at the types of rulers, look at the cultures, look at the actions that took place in the country, you can't just go "Oh they call themselves that, even though they're doing corrupt, anti-socialist things, they're still calling themselves that, that's good enough for me to point at, and go, 'see, don't work.'"
All highly educated sociology professors and celebrities with the right opinionsTM in the west have been knowing for 100% sure that Venezuela is the utopia of Current Year.
Venezuela was the 4th global economy during certain time. It was the second in the continent during a long period. It was the strongest even when the neighbors countries were suffering humanitarian crisis like Brazil in the 90's
Venezuela is pointed as socialism by the people living in Venezuela, the sameones who are allowed to seize whatever they want if done in a socialist way, and aren't allowed to claim their rights when someone poorer is affected by your right to own something, which means they can claim whatever they want if you have more than them.
Venezuela isn't pointed by socialist as socialist because they aren't living in Venezuela and don't agree with this crisis happening now.
I've always thought that it's funny that redditors shitpost about some left wing revolution, and then bitch about Rick and Morty season 3 not being here yet. As if things like Rick and Morty would even exist in their socialist/communist/anarchist utopia.
You've got it backwards, capitalist art is the pretentious modern variety.
This episode of Worker and Parasite is like, representational and shit. The capitalist equivalent is some shitty scribbling and harsh noise, and you need to read the author's statement to understand its about monetary policy.
some shitty scribbling, with flashing and harsh noise
That is exactly what that clip was. Breaking Bad isn't like that. It has smart dialogue, an interesting plot, well developed characters, good action scenes and it's thought provoking.
Sure there's definitely some crappy capitalist art out there. Some of it is way worse than that clip but I've never seen anything amazing from a communist country. How about you show me something?
I already agreed with you that shitty capitalist art exists. Why are you showing me more examples of it? I'm arguing that very little good communist art exists. Try to keep up with the conversation please
That article isn't even critical of Breaking Bad. It's just pointing out some similarities between Breaking Bad and a song. It kinda seems like you just googled for articles that were critical of Breaking Bad and then posted them here without reading them.
So all you can give me is one painting. Here's the top 250 movies from IMDB. Almost every single movie in this top 250 is made in a capitalist country
I think you misunderstood. I like Abstract Expressionism AND pictures of Lenin. I'm not sure why you keep linking to IMDB when we're talking about art tho.
Why would you divorce the cruelty from the art? Don't you think it's indicative of where they are as a culture?
Sure, they weren't the first to be cruel to animals, or have harsh working conditions. But Come and See is the first film that comes to mind where those conditions are used to invoke a genuine response.
Because ironically I'm a huge art-faggot who believes that you can have good Art even if a contemporary is doing something we look back on 70 years later as bad.
Metropolis threw a bunch of poor children into cold water.
Think of the impact Vaudeville has had on Films and TV
. But Come and See is the first film that comes to mind where those conditions are used to invoke a genuine response.
Wait, I'm confused. I don't quite get the point you're trying to make.
I think the cruelty ultimately makes the art better, and that it's indicative of what their culture valued (and so on) at the time. I think the violence is vital to it's identity.
Don't let me put words in your mouth, but are you arguing that we should separate the method from the art because it might later be judged unfairly?
I agree you shouldn't get on a high horse of morals when it comes to judging art, but I think violence and cruelty is part of its identity.
Ethically I honestly don't see a difference. But emotionally it's completely different.
It's one thing to know the piece of meat your eating is dead, but it's another to see this creature you've been watching muddle around with characters be shot, and then lay there suffering as you watch the life pour out of it.
Again, ethically there isn't much of a difference. But the emotional toll it has on film is much more impactful because of its inclusion.
It was an outlier in its' own right and was possible to make only due to Glasnost and Perestroika. But Soviet cinematography had a myriad of excellent films and actors, you're just unacquainted with them and lack cultural context.
If only the people of Venezuela listened to the 19 year old (AGEISM REEEEEE) socialist who has it all figured out sipping his starbucks and posting on his macbook that mommy bought for him.
Socialists rant on and on about capitalism, but they don't even understand what it is. All the examples they have in their head about capitalism aren't real capitalism - they're market socialism.
The only reason they think it's capitalism is because of socialist propaganda that tries to paint socialist failures as those of capitalism.
Well, this is something often said by those who are not scholars of capitalism. Come back to me when you have a pHD in economics and then you will be qualified to talk about capitailsm.
true capitalism would solve all our problems, that's why we have to try it here. btw the first step towards implementing true capitalism is: killing half the population, but they are dirty fascists anyway that don't even want to go along with my perfect plan. but it's for their own good.
It is, socialists do not get to pick and choose what is and what isn't. Just because it is not the pure ideology that exists solely in the realm of theory doesn't mean it can be dismissed.
Well off =\= right wing. There are few people left in vzl who are actually well off. They include the few ultra rich who could reasonably be called 'right wingers' like the owner of Polar, but the largest group of well-off Venezuelans consists of the members of the regime and its clients themselves: https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2017/04/30/class-rules-venezuela/
Sure, more /r/vzl subscribers will probably be like my in-laws - 'middle class' 'expats' who were once doctors and university professors who now live in the US where they work as translators in an American hospital, earning enough to rent a shitty apartment as they see the rest of their family suffer back home or abroad. Sure, they've escaped the destitution, they don't have to queue for 8 hours to get some groceries, and they have no sympathy for the government, but they're not rich or right wing.
Plenty of r/vzl folks are students or unemployed former members of the middle class still living in vzl, but just because they can post online doesn't mean that they are 'well off'. Internet access is cheaper and easier to get than a proper meal right now.
Internet access hasn't really been hit by inflation like everything else down there and is pretty much required so you can figure out where the next place you'll get food from is.
Venezuela internet coverage cover more than 61 % of the population. It'd be hardly to argue that only the well off right wing population in Venezuela has internet, since it is obvious that 61 % of the population in Venezuela aren't the "well off right wing"
Besides, internet in Venzuela is the cheapest in the continent, I'd say in the world as well.
since it is obvious that 61 % of the population in Venezuela aren't the "well off right wing"
... You understand that you're saying this to people who are a tiny ideological minority in their own country and think literally everyone who doesn't agree with them is "right wing"? So no, to them it is not obvious.
idk if venezuela is real socialism, but the government seems to have helped its poorest at the expense of its well-off. Of course they are gonna complain about it.
They're not mutually exclusive: Hugo Chavez poured a dozen billion state dollars into communes which were never completed.
They had a huge surplus for years, but they just kept on ramping up spending on the public while alienating foreign investment with price controls and nationalization.
There were lots of terrible economic policy rooted directly in the Socialist thinking that Chavez rode to power. Whether you want to accuse Chavez in particular of making these poor decisions cynically or earnestly is immaterial.
yeah, maybe the main problem with communism isn't the theory itself, but that communists are mentally deficient, hence they never actually formulate realistic plans that can work, and everything they build fails within a few years.
Yes, in your drug addled alternate reality all the millions of deaths are fake and all the failed governments were still around and your parents still love you.
eh, sometimes. Though Spanish are huge xenophobes towards Latin Americans. (even though they pillaged, raped and slaved the indigenous latin americans during the conquest lol).
I'd say turning a country from an agrarian society with widespread famines and no industrialisation into a leading world superpower that beat the USA in the space race within 50 years is pretty successful tbh
I thought the Soviet Union wasn't real socialism and/or communism? Is Thursday "Soviet Union was socialist" day, and will we be back to No True Socialism tomorrow?
Besides, the USSR hardly won the space race, and saying they beat the Nazis (as if they did it alone) is a gross simplification. But then again, you're here defending socialism so that kind of thing really goes without saying.
And have you not noticed that the USSR hasn't been around for a while. Almost like... it failed.
You probably will say that tomorrow, as I just wrote. Standard socialist behaviour. Do I have to bring up dead peasants, Cheka or GULAG as integral parts of the glorious socialist revolution?
OH sorry, I forgot that americans decided to start moving the goal posts on the space race once they saw that they actually got beaten.
Was there a commonly agreed goal of the space race? Because it seems like the Americans put a man on the moon and the Soviets just said "fuck it" and decided that Gagarin was actually the thing that mattered most.
b b but, isn't that what Americans claim about every single war they've ever been in? Nearly 3 million Nazis killed by Soviets compared to 800k of the rest of the world, they did a pretty good job of it.
Sorry, but not American, so I don't give a shit what they claim or not. But nice whataboutism. Really strengthens the argument that you are not a clueless commie teenager (but I repeat myself).
Also, if you believe the USSR beat the Nazis on their own you are clearly retarded. Their great offensives were only possible because of significant Western help.
They keep brining up the space race like it's some important milestone. Anyone can get to space if they poured all their resources into it while murdering a large percentage of the population who disagrees.
You probably will say that tomorrow, as I just wrote. Standard socialist behaviour. Do I have to bring up dead peasants, Cheka or GULAG as integral parts of the glorious socialist revolution?
It's as if, all the different socialists you've talked to are different people with different beliefs, and the current one is a bonafide tankie while the one writing this sentence is an anarchist. You realize socialists are such a broad group of people right? There's a bigger difference between /u/JAMESLJNR and me than there is between Obama and Trump in what beliefs we hold. The only similarity I have with /u/JAMESLJNR is that we agree capitalism is shit and something needs to be done about it and the end goal we need to reach. That's literally it.
It's as if, all the different socialists you've talked to are different people with different beliefs
Said the collectivist unironically. Smh fam.
I really don't give a shit whether I am shot because I'm a kulak in Ukraine or because I own a private business in Barcelona in 1936. I'm dead either way, so your particular flavor of asshole is of no concern to me.
Your protestations would also be a lot less hollow if socialists in general were not picking and choosing examples of countries socialist or not depending on whether it suits their purpose. See for instance Venezuela. Or the USSR.
Do you have any fucking clue how stupid you sound? We can literally feed the entire world 1.5 times. Why don't we? Oh yeah, capitalism. Great efficiency there.
Yes, capitalist countries have an abundance of food. Communist countries always suffer the opposite problem.EverySingleTime Not really a tough choice on which one is better huh?
My grandmother fled communist russia because she was starving. My bombed to shit country was a paradise compared to your glorious example of communism.
Of course there's no arguing with the fact that conditions most likely aren't good there. But there definitely is a lot of SK propaganda ans they have a right to defend themselves as a country.
Only way to industrialise a country is with socialist economy and concentration camps, hence why only the Soviet Union ever industrialised.
Also the magic of Marx caused the poor underdog, the largest and one of the most populous countries in the world, to become a superpower. (It definitely wasn't a world power before, nuh uh)
The US going to the moon was equivalent to moving the goalpost 10 meters, not 384 000 kilometers.
And if you take the USSR as a success, you have to consider how in venezuela they took an oil rich country with decent agricultural production and led them into poverty and starvation. Same for most socialist revolutions around the world.
He seized the shit out of those means of production, killed 20% of his population, was #LITTERALLY THE LEADER OF THE KHMER COMMUNIST PARTY. Doesn't get more tanki than that, you inbred fuck.
I don't think Karl Marx's communist manifesto included gulags, secret police or famines mate. They have nothing to do with socialism lol, does Cuba have famines, secret police or torture camps? (Except the US's of course).
80% of Soviet citizens voted to keep the USSR and capitalism was a disaster for the first 10 years for the country.
does Cuba have famines, secret police or torture camps? (Except the US's of course).
Lol fuck yeah they do, what are you a retard? They go deeper than that even, they'll get families on every block in every neighborhood to become secret police and spy on all their neighbors. BTW you know a country is evil when an extrajudicial prison is seen as a black mark on its legacy instead of a matter of course. Great example of the evils of western decadence. Keep yourself safe komrade
Marx's very existence was subsidized by a capitalist... The dude was a fat, lazy slob who never held a job and had to be put up by a sugar daddy. Fucking hilarious. Thanks Engels!
That's like saying everything Thomas Jefferson wrote was worthless because he owned slave. It's a known fact that every notable theorist has been a degenrate.
That's like saying everything [he] wrote was worthless because [raisins]
I was providing a former Marxist's mini-biography of Karl, not claiming his contributions are worthless because they were made by a spendthrift and narcissist.
You're simply going to say it's never been tried so there's no point. However, socialism is inherently a selfish ideology. It exists and persists on the misguided belief that "I'm alive therefore you owe me". You want to steal money from your fellow man simply because he made better decisions than you or his parents did. And to say the rich don't pay their fair share is laughable, the 1% pay roughly 24% of the tax revenue in America.
Nice bit of assumption there. USSR/Cuba/Venezuela were/are all socialist.
No. Socialists says to capitalists 'You are able to buy digusting yachts and multiple mansions that are empty across the world because you don't pay me what my labour is worth. Now pay me what my labour really is worth instead of extracting the surplus and we can all live an enriched life together as a society.'
It shouldn't be survival of the fittest just to exist in this modern era when we can afford to feed the whole world 1.5x over.
You are able to buy digusting yachts and multiple mansions
that's around 0.0005% of the world population.
they are extremely rich individually, but if you add everything up that they have, it's still to little to provide for the world's poor. and they (the richest 0.0005%) are also extremely well-protected.
If that glorious revolution ever comes, comrade Cletus, comrade Darius, and their fellow proletarians from the detroit ghettos and appalachian mountains will not be able to take from the super-rich. instead they will kill their slightly less impoverished neighbors -- the judge, the dentist down the street etc, and take the slightly bigger house.
The owners of the yachts will either have already moved on to another shore, or they will already have become communist party officials.
You accept what you're paid, businesses can't force workers to work for them(talking about the west here, civilised countries). Socialists like yourself really can't comprehend that deals between workers and businesses can be mutually beneficial. It shouldn't matter how much the CEO of a company with thousands of employees makes, you should care about the deal you make with your employeers.
The responses to this comment illustrate the problem perfectly: nobody can agree on what socialism is supposed to be, so any time it works or doesn't work there's more argument about whether it was actually socialism than whether it's better than the alternatives.
(I for one would rather run the country into the ground trying too hard to support the poor masses than trying too hard to support the wealthy few.)
Looks like the rising tide raises all boats. I'm really glad we have this option and don't have to run the country in the ground in an attempt to get "real socialism."
Looks like the rising tide raises all boats. I'm as relieved as you are that we can help the poor without running our country into the ground (ultimately hurting the poor) like Venezuela has done.
Funny how any country with any amount of agency higher than "come and literally enslave us in sweatshops" immediately tries to have some semblance of workers' rights but libertards like you keep crying that minimum wage is bad actually because Venezuela.
Second, the minimum wage was the least of Venezuela's problems. Price controls, currency controls, reckless spending of income from natural resources, excessive nationalization. These are the major culprits. If corn costs you $3.00 a bushel to produce, and the government only allows you to sell it for $3.10 (and it's not subsidizing you because it's running out of money) you're going to spend a lot less money and time on growing and selling corn than if you could sell it at the price point where you'd make the most profit, let's say $3.60. Lower supply of corn, lots of people want corn = more hungry people.
Second, the minimum wage issue is the least of Venezuela's problems.
Minimum wage? I've been told that we need to get rid of maternity leave IMMEDIATELY because that is the exact thing that will magically turn any country into Venezuela because it's communist.
It makes me cringe that the government of my country sided with Venezuela. While in developed countries this days there is a populist infestation (trumpistas and to a lesser extent sanderistas), here the farstupid left ruled rampant for a whole decade and currently is being replaced.
That being said, socialists are quick to eat their own, :P
Nah, populism has always been there. It's just a rethorical device. Elites vs. the people and all that. People like FDR were populists, but at least they did something (yeah, that guy did fucked up stuff but he did great stuff too).
Internet just makes it more easier to see. This is nothing new.
France almost ( 500.000 votes close) elected a fucking Chavez-Castro communist lover as President this month. Argentina at least got tradition as an excuse.
The right choice for South American governments is to back Maduro, good or bad. Venezuelan refugees are overwhelming northern Brazilians cities' resources as well as bringing waves of prostitution, drugs and crime in general. Look at how Syria was exarcebated by pushing out Assad, it's the same deal here.
Without offense but people tend to escape communism because of starvation, meanwhile Assad at least protected some ethnical groups.
Maduro must fall and then the international community should help to rebuild.
This is a response to someone claiming the state run media in Venezuela is propaganda.
And? We fight imperialist capitalist propaganda with our anti-imperialist socialist propaganda. Where does this liberal idea of unbiased journalism come from? No such thing exists. I will gladly listen to a news source that proclaims an anti-imperialist, socialist, pro-people analysis against the imperialist, US-allied news corporations that try to demonize the struggle in Venezuela.
We all gravitate towards media that matches our viewpoints to an extent. The important thing is recognizing it so as to think critically and attempt introspection, not celebrating it.
That's also the danger of keeping yourself isolated to your bubble. I know people in NYC that were sure George W Bush had stolen the 2000 election because "I don't know anyone who voted for him!". If you are that isolated and insulated from other opinions, then it's going to be really hard to pull your head out of your ass and see other people's points of view.
I used to enjoy reading /r/socialism since I lean towards Libertarian Socialist ideals, even if I realize it's unrealistic and the only real success was In Catalonia during Republican Spain. But that fucking subreddit has devolved into a massive cesspool of idiocy and censorship since the 2016 election. Angry, pissed off liberals started flocking there and forcing their half-assed "socialist" beliefs on everyone, conversations went to hell, the circlejerk on conservatives and capitalism became ridiculous, and the trolls have also increased. It's a woeful state now and best ignored for anyone outside the new hivemind.
the only real success was In Catalonia during Republican Spain
I read Homage to Catalonia by George Orwell. It was not a success. The communists tried to purge the anarchists. Orwell regrettably didn't get to shoot any fascists in the Spanish Civil War, but he almost shot some of his communist 'allies'.
The imbeciles over there always complain about capitalist media when it comes to Venezuela and they prefer only linking to telesur which is just Venezuelan propaganda pretty much. Also, they are entering "not real socialim mode" now because things are becoming pretty grim there. I wonder why they keep sticking threads about it because obviously they are not REAL socialists 🤔🤔🤔
278 comments
n/a SnapshillBot 2017-05-18
Promoting anarchofascism for 5 years and counting.
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n/a trj820 2017-05-18
Really, bot?
n/a MyrLeaf 2017-05-18
Workers of the World Unite !
But not in MY sub !!! #NotTrueSocialism clap emoji x5
n/a Civilityisgolden 2017-05-18
Not 👏 my 👏 socialist 👏 workers 👏 of 👏 the 👏 world 👏 untie 👏👈👌🤜👊🤛
n/a ChaoticEvil 2017-05-18
Hanging on by a thread? Untie yourself.
n/a Civilityisgolden 2017-05-18
What do you have to lose but your shoes
n/a PM_ME_HAIRLESS_CATS 2017-05-18
Socialists of the world, form up Lenintron!
n/a RedditsAnti-American 2017-05-18
Serious lack of diversity in hand color.
n/a Civilityisgolden 2017-05-18
Minorities don't work duh
n/a Invalid_Target 2017-05-18
but in all honesty, why would anyone wanna bring up venezuela, either as proof for or against socialism?
Venezuela has been a shitty country from it's inception, just cus they try to make socialism work with a busted-ass shitty 3rd world banana bureaucracy doesn't mean they should at all be the posterchild for the system...
Bringing it up as proof against socialism is silly cus they never really had socialism to begin with, they had rulers claiming to do shit for the people, but just ending up bumbling shit due to being corrupt as fuck.
It's a strawman argument cus nobody points to venezuela as the prime example of socialism.
n/a DistortedLines 2017-05-18
If you look back a few years, internet socialists would always point to it as an example of socialism working and liberating countries from the evil American capitalists. Now that it stopped working it became notsocialism. Same happens with every self-proclaimed socialist country, including the USSR, Cuba, etc...
n/a Will0saurus 2017-05-18
Venuzuela is particularly annoying for socialists because the govt actually did 'sieze the means of production' there.
n/a Invalid_Target 2017-05-18
well, there's the issue, you think simply cus they call themselves socialist doesn't mean they are.
Russia is, and always has been, an oligarchy, run by families, and by clans before that.
Cuba is a dictatorship, look at the white socialist countries, sweden, denmark, all the really smart white people countries make it work.
wtf...
You have to look at the countries, look at the types of rulers, look at the cultures, look at the actions that took place in the country, you can't just go "Oh they call themselves that, even though they're doing corrupt, anti-socialist things, they're still calling themselves that, that's good enough for me to point at, and go, 'see, don't work.'"
that's simple, to the point of infantile.
n/a HeresCyonnah 2017-05-18
What they're saying is these same commies were saying it's a great example. Not just because the country claims it's socialist.
Can you even read?
n/a dcismia 2017-05-18
http://www.salon.com/2013/03/06/hugo_chavezs_economic_miracle/
n/a autistitron 2017-05-18
That country was the golden example for socialists, before it went bad and started murdering it's people like every other socialist country ever.
Then it was in the "not true socialism" bin, like every other socialist country ever.
n/a Invalid_Target 2017-05-18
austria, and denmark, and sweden, and parts of america wave in the distance
we already have socialist policies, you're own parents probably take advantage of them.
what the fuck has socialism ever done to you?
n/a HeresCyonnah 2017-05-18
You realize r/socialism doesn't think any of those are at all socialist, right?
n/a Invalid_Target 2017-05-18
I couldn't give a fuck what a bunch of children and tryhards with no job care about what they think socialism is.
n/a Thhueros 2017-05-18
/r/socialism is not capable of meaningful thought
n/a dcismia 2017-05-18
Has "real" socialismTM ever been tried?
n/a HeresCyonnah 2017-05-18
Yes. But then things go bad, and then suddenly it's never been tried.
n/a ProgressiveFragility 2017-05-18
Did you not listen to the scientific consensus?
All highly educated sociology professors and celebrities with the right opinionsTM in the west have been knowing for 100% sure that Venezuela is the utopia of Current Year.
That was sociology 101.
n/a callado 2017-05-18
Venezuela was the 4th global economy during certain time. It was the second in the continent during a long period. It was the strongest even when the neighbors countries were suffering humanitarian crisis like Brazil in the 90's
Venezuela is pointed as socialism by the people living in Venezuela, the sameones who are allowed to seize whatever they want if done in a socialist way, and aren't allowed to claim their rights when someone poorer is affected by your right to own something, which means they can claim whatever they want if you have more than them.
Venezuela isn't pointed by socialist as socialist because they aren't living in Venezuela and don't agree with this crisis happening now.
n/a HeresCyonnah 2017-05-18
That's the thkng, they basically say "socialism is perfect, so if there are problems, it's obviously not socialism."
n/a MyrLeaf 2017-05-18
It was just a glorified gas station with a paramilitary regime.
n/a totalarkwar 2017-05-18
I've always thought that it's funny that redditors shitpost about some left wing revolution, and then bitch about Rick and Morty season 3 not being here yet. As if things like Rick and Morty would even exist in their socialist/communist/anarchist utopia.
n/a LuigiVargasLlosa 2017-05-18
https://youtu.be/Kf16HmVO6gI
n/a youtubefactsbot 2017-05-18
bot info
n/a Victorhcj 2017-05-18
Difference is that capitalist art is better and more abundant. Oh and not censored (or at least a lot less)
n/a LuigiVargasLlosa 2017-05-18
Better than that? Ok kiddo.
n/a Victorhcj 2017-05-18
It looks like some pretentious mindless modern art
How is Breaking Bad or something not better than this shit?
n/a LuigiVargasLlosa 2017-05-18
Typical bourgeoise response. You'll be first against the wall
n/a Victorhcj 2017-05-18
That's not an argument
n/a Crackertron 2017-05-18
THAT'S NOT AN ARGUMENT
n/a 39flws 2017-05-18
You've got it backwards, capitalist art is the pretentious modern variety.
This episode of Worker and Parasite is like, representational and shit. The capitalist equivalent is some shitty scribbling and harsh noise, and you need to read the author's statement to understand its about monetary policy.
n/a Victorhcj 2017-05-18
That is exactly what that clip was. Breaking Bad isn't like that. It has smart dialogue, an interesting plot, well developed characters, good action scenes and it's thought provoking.
Sure there's definitely some crappy capitalist art out there. Some of it is way worse than that clip but I've never seen anything amazing from a communist country. How about you show me something?
n/a 39flws 2017-05-18
Capitalist Art
Communist Art
Your shitty art that doesn't have color fields OR lenin
n/a Victorhcj 2017-05-18
I already agreed with you that shitty capitalist art exists. Why are you showing me more examples of it? I'm arguing that very little good communist art exists. Try to keep up with the conversation please
That article isn't even critical of Breaking Bad. It's just pointing out some similarities between Breaking Bad and a song. It kinda seems like you just googled for articles that were critical of Breaking Bad and then posted them here without reading them.
So all you can give me is one painting. Here's the top 250 movies from IMDB. Almost every single movie in this top 250 is made in a capitalist country
n/a 39flws 2017-05-18
I think you misunderstood. I like Abstract Expressionism AND pictures of Lenin. I'm not sure why you keep linking to IMDB when we're talking about art tho.
n/a Victorhcj 2017-05-18
Because movies are art?
n/a 39flws 2017-05-18
Capitalist Art
Communist Art
Your shitty "art" that doesn't have color fields OR lenin
n/a imguralbumbot 2017-05-18
Hi, I'm a bot for linking direct images of albums with only 1 image
http://i.imgur.com/4dO5R5n.gif
Source | Why? | Creator | ignoreme | deletthis
n/a Victorhcj 2017-05-18
A-are you.... retarded?
n/a 39flws 2017-05-18
You're the one who is sucking the dick of the moron who thought scully being immortal was canon and not a funny Darrin throwaway line.
n/a thefran 2017-05-18
Sorry, fucking excuse me?
n/a The_Hated_One 2017-05-18
Americans only watch American shit anyway though so it's not like you or the people upvoting you would know.
n/a Victorhcj 2017-05-18
Kinda true actually
n/a WingOfWar 2017-05-18
Of all the society animations to post why not Hedgehog in the Fog? That shit is legit beautiful to look at.
n/a LuigiVargasLlosa 2017-05-18
I thought this would be about the same level as Rick and Morty
n/a WingOfWar 2017-05-18
I suppose it's on the same tier as the original fox pitch
n/a Thhueros 2017-05-18
>no movies and tv shows under socialism
>soviet filmmakers pioneer modern cinematography
n/a WingOfWar 2017-05-18
I think a lot of that is due to how little of a fuck they gave about the well-being of their actors, crew, so on.
Have you seen "Come and See"? They literally shoot a cow and film it dying. Shit was hardcore.
n/a Thhueros 2017-05-18
No, a lot of this happened in the 20's. They did things like invent the montage and such.
n/a WingOfWar 2017-05-18
In my defense it is easy to overlook given how trivial that seems now.
n/a Imgur_Lurker 2017-05-18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=249&v=ZCx89BRbVeU
The Running Wire
Jesse James killing off their horses
It wasn't just the Soviets being shitty to animals at the time, you have to divorce how shitty filmmakers were to things to the Art.
n/a WingOfWar 2017-05-18
Why would you divorce the cruelty from the art? Don't you think it's indicative of where they are as a culture?
Sure, they weren't the first to be cruel to animals, or have harsh working conditions. But Come and See is the first film that comes to mind where those conditions are used to invoke a genuine response.
n/a Imgur_Lurker 2017-05-18
Because ironically I'm a huge art-faggot who believes that you can have good Art even if a contemporary is doing something we look back on 70 years later as bad.
Metropolis threw a bunch of poor children into cold water.
Think of the impact Vaudeville has had on Films and TV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGlzvgTPieE
They shot a horse in the neck and threw it down a staircase to film it dying
n/a WingOfWar 2017-05-18
Wait, I'm confused. I don't quite get the point you're trying to make.
I think the cruelty ultimately makes the art better, and that it's indicative of what their culture valued (and so on) at the time. I think the violence is vital to it's identity.
Don't let me put words in your mouth, but are you arguing that we should separate the method from the art because it might later be judged unfairly?
I agree you shouldn't get on a high horse of morals when it comes to judging art, but I think violence and cruelty is part of its identity.
n/a Imgur_Lurker 2017-05-18
No, no i'm being retarded, I thought you were the Soviets didn't create Art guy.
I think people just honestly didn't give a shit, imagine going from being payed to shock an elephant to death to real movies.
n/a TheMauveHand 2017-05-18
So...? The same thing happens millions of times day in slaughterhouses all over the world, why is it special if one was for film and not for food?
n/a WingOfWar 2017-05-18
Ethically I honestly don't see a difference. But emotionally it's completely different.
It's one thing to know the piece of meat your eating is dead, but it's another to see this creature you've been watching muddle around with characters be shot, and then lay there suffering as you watch the life pour out of it.
Again, ethically there isn't much of a difference. But the emotional toll it has on film is much more impactful because of its inclusion.
n/a c_Six 2017-05-18
Dude all early film was like that. Here in America they just raped the little child actors.
n/a rultes 2017-05-18
It was an outlier in its' own right and was possible to make only due to Glasnost and Perestroika. But Soviet cinematography had a myriad of excellent films and actors, you're just unacquainted with them and lack cultural context.
n/a Prysorra 2017-05-18
Springtime for
HitlerTHE PROLETARIAT CLASS was indeed pioneering work.n/a glmox 2017-05-18
im confused, do you disagree with that statement? because it's mostly true
n/a PM_ME_HAIRLESS_CATS 2017-05-18
When you get down to it, Solaris and Tetris were the high point of Soviet entertainment.
n/a zahlman 2017-05-18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWTFG3J1CP8
n/a youtubefactsbot 2017-05-18
bot info
n/a CR90 2017-05-18
Solaris is pretty great though.
n/a PM_ME_HAIRLESS_CATS 2017-05-18
Indeed.
n/a glmox 2017-05-18
i dont get it, is that supposed to be a bad thing?
n/a Senator_Chickpea 2017-05-18
n/a Pogner 2017-05-18
wtf i love socialism now
n/a ikilledsethrich 2017-05-18
This but unironically.
n/a -Princeps- 2017-05-18
maybe we should give socialism a test run
n/a ikilledsethrich 2017-05-18
No Rick and Morty? I'll take some of that socialism, please.
n/a donaldthelion 2017-05-18
Interesting how people who love socialism don't want to hear from people who lived under socialism
n/a fucked_my_shit_up 2017-05-18
It wasn't real socialism
n/a Lord_Of_the_Strings 2017-05-18
IT'S NOT REAL SOCIALISM!
n/a MounumentOfPriapus 2017-05-18
"Hey, look at me. I'm a socialist regime."
"Fuck off, commie."
"Ha ha. Joke's on them. I'm actually state capitalist."
n/a donaldthelion 2017-05-18
Oh no doubt same with communism
n/a SanityAssassins 2017-05-18
If only the people of Venezuela listened to the 19 year old (AGEISM REEEEEE) socialist who has it all figured out sipping his starbucks and posting on his macbook that mommy bought for him.
n/a ikilledsethrich 2017-05-18
You know what would have worked? Libertarianism!
n/a nanonan 2017-05-18
https://i.imgur.com/vwMin.gif
n/a FedoraWearingNegus 2017-05-18
this but unironically
n/a KingBlunts 2017-05-18
this but somehow even more autistic
n/a Stuntman119 2017-05-18
Hah libertarianism is the best better thgan anarchism my little pony iz a libitarien society i love thet show 🙌
n/a PhysicsIsMyMistress 2017-05-18
But like, it's not. Anything that calls itself socialist doesn't mean it's socialist.
That said, what a shitty mod.
n/a SineadObama 2017-05-18
Socialists rant on and on about capitalism, but they don't even understand what it is. All the examples they have in their head about capitalism aren't real capitalism - they're market socialism.
The only reason they think it's capitalism is because of socialist propaganda that tries to paint socialist failures as those of capitalism.
True free enterprise has never been tried.
n/a PhysicsIsMyMistress 2017-05-18
You're right, true capitalism has never been done, because, it's almost like it's great in theory but not in practice?
n/a SineadObama 2017-05-18
Well, this is something often said by those who are not scholars of capitalism. Come back to me when you have a pHD in economics and then you will be qualified to talk about capitailsm.
n/a mersh547 2017-05-18
woosh.
n/a ProgressiveFragility 2017-05-18
true capitalism would solve all our problems, that's why we have to try it here. btw the first step towards implementing true capitalism is: killing half the population, but they are dirty fascists anyway that don't even want to go along with my perfect plan. but it's for their own good.
n/a JohnBlind 2017-05-18
It is, socialists do not get to pick and choose what is and what isn't. Just because it is not the pure ideology that exists solely in the realm of theory doesn't mean it can be dismissed.
n/a Will0saurus 2017-05-18
The govt took control of factories though, they siezed the means of production.
n/a xavierdc 2017-05-18
I mean, if they use the market and still use money exchange then it's by definition capitalism. Venezuela is more like a social democracy.
n/a HeresCyonnah 2017-05-18
So why did they praise it as real socialism just 2 years ago?
n/a PhysicsIsMyMistress 2017-05-18
I don't know, I don't post there.
n/a wwyzzerdd 2017-05-18
It's real socialism while oil prices are high.
It's not real socialism when oil prices are low.
We're not dealing with rocket appliances here.
n/a HeresCyonnah 2017-05-18
So it's oil science, not rocket science.
n/a ironicshitpostr 2017-05-18
It was state capitalism obviously.
n/a realfrenchgirl 2017-05-18
It never is.
n/a ramukakaforever 2017-05-18
Can't believe it's not socialism
n/a themiDdlest 2017-05-18
The top comment says it is social democratic populism. Not even socialism!
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
Not defending the ban but most Venezuelans who have access to the internet are generally the more well off right wing population.
n/a DistortedLines 2017-05-18
Wow that socialism shit really works
n/a autistitron 2017-05-18
Fuck the 1% with their fancy dial-up and toilet paper.
n/a Neronoah 2017-05-18
Moot point, really.
n/a LuigiVargasLlosa 2017-05-18
Well off =\= right wing. There are few people left in vzl who are actually well off. They include the few ultra rich who could reasonably be called 'right wingers' like the owner of Polar, but the largest group of well-off Venezuelans consists of the members of the regime and its clients themselves: https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2017/04/30/class-rules-venezuela/
Sure, more /r/vzl subscribers will probably be like my in-laws - 'middle class' 'expats' who were once doctors and university professors who now live in the US where they work as translators in an American hospital, earning enough to rent a shitty apartment as they see the rest of their family suffer back home or abroad. Sure, they've escaped the destitution, they don't have to queue for 8 hours to get some groceries, and they have no sympathy for the government, but they're not rich or right wing.
Plenty of r/vzl folks are students or unemployed former members of the middle class still living in vzl, but just because they can post online doesn't mean that they are 'well off'. Internet access is cheaper and easier to get than a proper meal right now.
n/a HeresCyonnah 2017-05-18
Well its rich compared to anyone living under socialism.
n/a hd04 2017-05-18
Internet access hasn't really been hit by inflation like everything else down there and is pretty much required so you can figure out where the next place you'll get food from is.
n/a IAintThatGuy 2017-05-18
Also these ones are less likely to have been shot in the face by the police yet.
n/a autistitron 2017-05-18
You make socialism sound really fun to live under.
n/a callado 2017-05-18
Venezuela internet coverage cover more than 61 % of the population. It'd be hardly to argue that only the well off right wing population in Venezuela has internet, since it is obvious that 61 % of the population in Venezuela aren't the "well off right wing"
Besides, internet in Venzuela is the cheapest in the continent, I'd say in the world as well.
Please, inform yourself
n/a zahlman 2017-05-18
... You understand that you're saying this to people who are a tiny ideological minority in their own country and think literally everyone who doesn't agree with them is "right wing"? So no, to them it is not obvious.
n/a bat_mayn 2017-05-18
Correct.
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-05-18
Is showering a right wing thing too or what?
n/a Gothmog26 2017-05-18
Yes comrade, they are traitors to our glorious revolution.
n/a barbadosslim 2017-05-18
idk if venezuela is real socialism, but the government seems to have helped its poorest at the expense of its well-off. Of course they are gonna complain about it.
n/a donaldthelion 2017-05-18
Nah it was a petrol state which failed
n/a SineadObama 2017-05-18
They're not mutually exclusive: Hugo Chavez poured a dozen billion state dollars into communes which were never completed.
They had a huge surplus for years, but they just kept on ramping up spending on the public while alienating foreign investment with price controls and nationalization.
There were lots of terrible economic policy rooted directly in the Socialist thinking that Chavez rode to power. Whether you want to accuse Chavez in particular of making these poor decisions cynically or earnestly is immaterial.
n/a PM_ME_HAIRLESS_CATS 2017-05-18
Statistically, social endeavors embodied by high revenue end up failing due to management undersight or political expectations.
n/a ProgressiveFragility 2017-05-18
yeah, maybe the main problem with communism isn't the theory itself, but that communists are mentally deficient, hence they never actually formulate realistic plans that can work, and everything they build fails within a few years.
n/a barbadosslim 2017-05-18
I'm sorry you feel that way.
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-05-18
You must be sorry history books feel that way.
n/a Mircy 2017-05-18
Happy cakeday and excellent bait
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-05-18
Thanks, Mir!
n/a barbadosslim 2017-05-18
You made that up tho.
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-05-18
Yes, in your drug addled alternate reality all the millions of deaths are fake and all the failed governments were still around and your parents still love you.
n/a barbadosslim 2017-05-18
I'm sorry you feel that way.
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-05-18
I'm sorry for you that history books feel that way.
n/a barbadosslim 2017-05-18
I'm sorry you feel that way too.
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-05-18
Yeah I like having a grip on reality. Hence why I feel the way I do about communism and related genocides.
n/a barbadosslim 2017-05-18
I'm sorry you feel that way too.
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-05-18
For your sake I hope you are a troll.
n/a barbadosslim 2017-05-18
I'm sorry you feel that way.
n/a Hellkyte 2017-05-18
This is that whole Sean Penn vs Penelope Cruz thing all over again but far more idiotic
n/a the_popcorn_pisser 2017-05-18
Cruz is Spanish friendo.
n/a Hellkyte 2017-05-18
Is that different?
n/a the_popcorn_pisser 2017-05-18
eh, sometimes. Though Spanish are huge xenophobes towards Latin Americans. (even though they pillaged, raped and slaved the indigenous latin americans during the conquest lol).
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-05-18
Sean Penn is a communist?
n/a headasplodes 2017-05-18
Well he's a violent psycho so it's not surprising
n/a autistitron 2017-05-18
Socialists never gave a shot about the proles who actually have to live under socialism.
n/a TheGreatWolfRuss 2017-05-18
Typical socialists/communists. Ideology failed? Must because they weren't communist/socialist enough!
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
Socialism as an ideology has hardly failed.
n/a HobbesCalvinandLocke 2017-05-18
When has it worked? Remember Scandinavia isn't socialist.
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
I'd say turning a country from an agrarian society with widespread famines and no industrialisation into a leading world superpower that beat the USA in the space race within 50 years is pretty successful tbh
n/a subpoutine 2017-05-18
Wait, now Stalin was a socialist? I'm so confused.
n/a Eztari 2017-05-18
I thought the Soviet Union wasn't real socialism and/or communism? Is Thursday "Soviet Union was socialist" day, and will we be back to No True Socialism tomorrow?
Besides, the USSR hardly won the space race, and saying they beat the Nazis (as if they did it alone) is a gross simplification. But then again, you're here defending socialism so that kind of thing really goes without saying.
And have you not noticed that the USSR hasn't been around for a while. Almost like... it failed.
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
Who said that? Because I sure haven't.
OH sorry, I forgot that americans decided to start moving the goal posts on the space race once they saw that they actually got beaten.
b b but, isn't that what Americans claim about every single war they've ever been in? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_casualties_in_World_War_II](Nearly 3 million Nazis killed by Soviets compared to 800k of the rest of the world), they did a pretty good job of it.
n/a Tostilover 2017-05-18
"But mom, he did it to!"
n/a Eztari 2017-05-18
You probably will say that tomorrow, as I just wrote. Standard socialist behaviour. Do I have to bring up dead peasants, Cheka or GULAG as integral parts of the glorious socialist revolution?
Was there a commonly agreed goal of the space race? Because it seems like the Americans put a man on the moon and the Soviets just said "fuck it" and decided that Gagarin was actually the thing that mattered most.
Sorry, but not American, so I don't give a shit what they claim or not. But nice whataboutism. Really strengthens the argument that you are not a clueless commie teenager (but I repeat myself).
Also, if you believe the USSR beat the Nazis on their own you are clearly retarded. Their great offensives were only possible because of significant Western help.
n/a relevant_econ_meme 2017-05-18
They keep brining up the space race like it's some important milestone. Anyone can get to space if they poured all their resources into it while murdering a large percentage of the population who disagrees.
n/a jaijasty2 2017-05-18
It's as if, all the different socialists you've talked to are different people with different beliefs, and the current one is a bonafide tankie while the one writing this sentence is an anarchist. You realize socialists are such a broad group of people right? There's a bigger difference between /u/JAMESLJNR and me than there is between Obama and Trump in what beliefs we hold. The only similarity I have with /u/JAMESLJNR is that we agree capitalism is shit and something needs to be done about it and the end goal we need to reach. That's literally it.
n/a Eztari 2017-05-18
Said the collectivist unironically. Smh fam. I really don't give a shit whether I am shot because I'm a kulak in Ukraine or because I own a private business in Barcelona in 1936. I'm dead either way, so your particular flavor of asshole is of no concern to me.
Your protestations would also be a lot less hollow if socialists in general were not picking and choosing examples of countries socialist or not depending on whether it suits their purpose. See for instance Venezuela. Or the USSR.
That's an oxymoron, lad.
n/a TheGreatWolfRuss 2017-05-18
wow they made it to space? we made it to the moon. guess which country current exists?
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
USA still exists, USSR doesn't because of the biggest act of treason and betrayal of the people in modern history.
n/a old_grumpy_grandpa 2017-05-18
Kek, the USSR was born out of Lenin betraying his allies
n/a ChateauJack 2017-05-18
Lenin betraying them, then Trosky betraying Lenin, then Stalin betraying Trotsky, then Stalin killing everybody everywhere.
n/a TheGreatWolfRuss 2017-05-18
so it failed to reach the moon and failed to stay afloat? what a success 🤔🤔
n/a Tostilover 2017-05-18
"We didn't lose, we were stabbed in the back!"
n/a ZeitgeistNow 2017-05-18
Not at all because it was a deteriorating shithole that could barely feed its people, right?
n/a ProgressiveFragility 2017-05-18
didn't the harsh russian winter kill most of those 3 million
n/a BrotherToaster 2017-05-18
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-05-18
LOL, where did the USSR get their supplies from?
n/a Sentinell 2017-05-18
I like how you conveniently linked to a page showing only the German losses instead of all casualties.
The Soviets sacrificed 10 million soldiers and 10 million civilians to get those 3 million dead nazis. As always with communism, horrible efficiency.
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
Do you have any fucking clue how stupid you sound? We can literally feed the entire world 1.5 times. Why don't we? Oh yeah, capitalism. Great efficiency there.
n/a Sentinell 2017-05-18
Yes, capitalist countries have an abundance of food. Communist countries always suffer the opposite problem.Every Single Time Not really a tough choice on which one is better huh?
My grandmother fled communist russia because she was starving. My bombed to shit country was a paradise compared to your glorious example of communism.
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
Recovering from a world war in a famine prone country during a time of political unrest, what else do you expect?
n/a HobbesCalvinandLocke 2017-05-18
I thought that wasn't true socialism.
n/a Doomblaze 2017-05-18
What history book are you reading out of?
n/a Neon_needles 2017-05-18
He's retarded. Don't worry about it.
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
One that thankfully hasn't been issued the the USA.
n/a DrunkAutopilot 2017-05-18
So what's your thoughts on the workers paradise of North Korea?
Let's see how deep this rabbit hole goes.
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
Long live DPRK viva comrade KJU
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
Of course there's no arguing with the fact that conditions most likely aren't good there. But there definitely is a lot of SK propaganda ans they have a right to defend themselves as a country.
n/a LemonScore 2017-05-18
North Korea "as a country" is a mass of starving, enslaved people. What the propaganda is protecting is the brutal dictatorship.
n/a Will0saurus 2017-05-18
lol tankies
n/a harrah8083 2017-05-18
No, only one issued by the GLORIOUS STATE OF MOTHER RUSSIA. As you were comrade.
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
Nah, the one issued by every other country that hasn't fallen victim to the red scare.
n/a handsomestalin 2017-05-18
Only way to industrialise a country is with socialist economy and concentration camps, hence why only the Soviet Union ever industrialised.
Also the magic of Marx caused the poor underdog, the largest and one of the most populous countries in the world, to become a superpower. (It definitely wasn't a world power before, nuh uh)
The US going to the moon was equivalent to moving the goalpost 10 meters, not 384 000 kilometers.
And we don't talk about lend and lease.
n/a IAintThatGuy 2017-05-18
Beat the nazis with supplies from the USA.
And if you take the USSR as a success, you have to consider how in venezuela they took an oil rich country with decent agricultural production and led them into poverty and starvation. Same for most socialist revolutions around the world.
n/a ChateauJack 2017-05-18
200 millions people killed between Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot.
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
If you seriously think Pol Pot was a communist you're more uninformed that I thought.
n/a ChateauJack 2017-05-18
He seized the shit out of those means of production, killed 20% of his population, was #LITTERALLY THE LEADER OF THE KHMER COMMUNIST PARTY. Doesn't get more tanki than that, you inbred fuck.
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
Cmon man a simple google search will tell you that's not true. Even biased US historians agree he wasn't a communist.
n/a ChateauJack 2017-05-18
As stated above, you're indeed an inbred fuck.
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
Are ignorant to facts? Do you have to resort to abuse when you realise you're wrong?
n/a mersh547 2017-05-18
Are you having a stroke? It would explain a lot.
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
Sorry for not bothering to re read a 4 letter sentence that was wrote on mobile. Back to the original question, are you ignorant to facts?
n/a mersh547 2017-05-18
I'm not here to have a discussion with you. Just to laugh at you.
n/a Bonzalez 2017-05-18
It was actually an 18 letter sentence, you dunce.
n/a jPaolo 2017-05-18
He created moneyless, classless communes full of farmers and workers. He was the closest to "True CommunismTM" in the history.
n/a matrix2002 2017-05-18
Lol, mass famine isn't a win buddy. Or gulags. Or secret police. Or stalin. Or bread lines in the 80's.
If it was so good, why would they get rid of it?
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
I don't think Karl Marx's communist manifesto included gulags, secret police or famines mate. They have nothing to do with socialism lol, does Cuba have famines, secret police or torture camps? (Except the US's of course).
80% of Soviet citizens voted to keep the USSR and capitalism was a disaster for the first 10 years for the country.
n/a matrix2002 2017-05-18
So the Soviet Union wasn't a "true communist/socialist" state because it had all those things?
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
It was a socialist state. But fucking gulags and high censorship wasn't what made it socialist.
n/a matrix2002 2017-05-18
Don't all socialist states have gulags, censorship and a secret police?
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
No? Cuba doesn't have gulags, secret police or high censorship.
n/a matrix2002 2017-05-18
They have had all three.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/11/26/cuba-fidel-castros-record-repression
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watch
n/a matrix2002 2017-05-18
So, you are saying Fidel didn't have political prisoners, secret police or high censorship?
n/a matrix2002 2017-05-18
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba
n/a HeresCyonnah 2017-05-18
Lol can't even defend a single communist country's human rights issues.
n/a im-a-koala 2017-05-18
Ok now I know you're retarded.
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
Why? Do you have a source for these claims?
n/a HeresCyonnah 2017-05-18
Your posts
n/a 64m3r 2017-05-18
What do you think a dictatorship of the proletariat entails?
n/a CirqueDuFuder 2017-05-18
Cuba does have secret police and political prisoners and they aren't bothered by executing people right out in the streets.
n/a yesiamcorrect 2017-05-18
Lol fuck yeah they do, what are you a retard? They go deeper than that even, they'll get families on every block in every neighborhood to become secret police and spy on all their neighbors. BTW you know a country is evil when an extrajudicial prison is seen as a black mark on its legacy instead of a matter of course. Great example of the evils of western decadence. Keep yourself safe komrade
n/a Awayfone 2017-05-18
It has hardly succeed
n/a zwiebelhans 2017-05-18
Lol its been failing since Marx.
n/a Prometherion13 2017-05-18
Marx's very existence was subsidized by a capitalist... The dude was a fat, lazy slob who never held a job and had to be put up by a sugar daddy. Fucking hilarious. Thanks Engels!
n/a subpoutine 2017-05-18
For more Marx facts, Thomas Sowell has a good rundown of Marx's NEET existence.
n/a pepperouchau 2017-05-18
Can we offer him a posthumous mod position?
n/a subpoutine 2017-05-18
/u/KarlMarx, post proletarian bussy?
n/a Thhueros 2017-05-18
That's like saying everything Thomas Jefferson wrote was worthless because he owned slave. It's a known fact that every notable theorist has been a degenrate.
n/a subpoutine 2017-05-18
I was providing a former Marxist's mini-biography of Karl, not claiming his contributions are worthless because they were made by a spendthrift and narcissist.
n/a Thhueros 2017-05-18
Sowell was a Marxist? Probs a Trotskyist. They always turn into conservatives for some reason.
n/a ironicshitpostr 2017-05-18
That's because conservatism is the best way to heighten the contradictions.
n/a Thhueros 2017-05-18
True
n/a DistortedLines 2017-05-18
List literally one instance where it worked, just one. I'm not talking about social democracies I'm talking actual socialism.
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
Cuba, USSR. Highly successful.
n/a Nomadlads 2017-05-18
Wew
n/a DistortedLines 2017-05-18
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
Why would I be?
n/a DistortedLines 2017-05-18
You're right, I should assume everyone in /r/drama is an autist until proven otherwise.
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
Thank you.
n/a Mokoko42 2017-05-18
Revolutionary Catalunia
n/a justcool393 2017-05-18
Added as approved contributor
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
Thanks
n/a DontBanMeBaby 2017-05-18
You're simply going to say it's never been tried so there's no point. However, socialism is inherently a selfish ideology. It exists and persists on the misguided belief that "I'm alive therefore you owe me". You want to steal money from your fellow man simply because he made better decisions than you or his parents did. And to say the rich don't pay their fair share is laughable, the 1% pay roughly 24% of the tax revenue in America.
n/a JAMESLJNR 2017-05-18
Nice bit of assumption there. USSR/Cuba/Venezuela were/are all socialist.
No. Socialists says to capitalists 'You are able to buy digusting yachts and multiple mansions that are empty across the world because you don't pay me what my labour is worth. Now pay me what my labour really is worth instead of extracting the surplus and we can all live an enriched life together as a society.'
It shouldn't be survival of the fittest just to exist in this modern era when we can afford to feed the whole world 1.5x over.
n/a ProgressiveFragility 2017-05-18
that's around 0.0005% of the world population.
they are extremely rich individually, but if you add everything up that they have, it's still to little to provide for the world's poor. and they (the richest 0.0005%) are also extremely well-protected.
If that glorious revolution ever comes, comrade Cletus, comrade Darius, and their fellow proletarians from the detroit ghettos and appalachian mountains will not be able to take from the super-rich. instead they will kill their slightly less impoverished neighbors -- the judge, the dentist down the street etc, and take the slightly bigger house.
The owners of the yachts will either have already moved on to another shore, or they will already have become communist party officials.
n/a wwyzzerdd 2017-05-18
Worth has fuck all to do with it.
You're paid what you'll accept.
n/a DontBanMeBaby 2017-05-18
You accept what you're paid, businesses can't force workers to work for them(talking about the west here, civilised countries). Socialists like yourself really can't comprehend that deals between workers and businesses can be mutually beneficial. It shouldn't matter how much the CEO of a company with thousands of employees makes, you should care about the deal you make with your employeers.
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n/a somethingrelevant 2017-05-18
The responses to this comment illustrate the problem perfectly: nobody can agree on what socialism is supposed to be, so any time it works or doesn't work there's more argument about whether it was actually socialism than whether it's better than the alternatives.
(I for one would rather run the country into the ground trying too hard to support the poor masses than trying too hard to support the wealthy few.)
n/a SineadObama 2017-05-18
Good thing we don't have to choose between those miserable options! Because we have free enterprise, which recently halved the amount of extreme poverty among billions of people over twenty years
Looks like the rising tide raises all boats. I'm really glad we have this option and don't have to run the country in the ground in an attempt to get "real socialism."
n/a SineadObama 2017-05-18
Good thing we don't have to choose between those miserable options! Because we have free enterprise and open markets, and following this general policy globally recently halved the amount of extreme poverty among billions of people over twenty years.
Looks like the rising tide raises all boats. I'm as relieved as you are that we can help the poor without running our country into the ground (ultimately hurting the poor) like Venezuela has done.
n/a somethingrelevant 2017-05-18
All I said was if I had to choose I'd take one over the other.
n/a thefran 2017-05-18
Funny how any country with any amount of agency higher than "come and literally enslave us in sweatshops" immediately tries to have some semblance of workers' rights but libertards like you keep crying that minimum wage is bad actually because Venezuela.
n/a SineadObama 2017-05-18
You seem to be mistaking me for someone else.
First off, the minimum wage is a lousy anti-poverty program. EITC and UBI are much better if we're going to spend money to reduce poverty within our own borders.
Second, the minimum wage was the least of Venezuela's problems. Price controls, currency controls, reckless spending of income from natural resources, excessive nationalization. These are the major culprits. If corn costs you $3.00 a bushel to produce, and the government only allows you to sell it for $3.10 (and it's not subsidizing you because it's running out of money) you're going to spend a lot less money and time on growing and selling corn than if you could sell it at the price point where you'd make the most profit, let's say $3.60. Lower supply of corn, lots of people want corn = more hungry people.
n/a thefran 2017-05-18
Minimum wage? I've been told that we need to get rid of maternity leave IMMEDIATELY because that is the exact thing that will magically turn any country into Venezuela because it's communist.
n/a StingAuer 2017-05-18
I still have very-not-fond memories of being an edgy teenager.
n/a egotistical-dso 2017-05-18
I can remember being a soft supporter of fascism when I was in high school.
n/a Nomadlads 2017-05-18
I was a moderate in high school. I was still a loser, but not because of my political views.
n/a Neronoah 2017-05-18
It makes me cringe that the government of my country sided with Venezuela. While in developed countries this days there is a populist infestation (trumpistas and to a lesser extent sanderistas), here the
farstupid left ruled rampant for a whole decade and currently is being replaced.That being said, socialists are quick to eat their own, :P
n/a HobbesCalvinandLocke 2017-05-18
The internet has increased populism everywhere, just blame it on that.
n/a Neronoah 2017-05-18
Nah, populism has always been there. It's just a rethorical device. Elites vs. the people and all that. People like FDR were populists, but at least they did something (yeah, that guy did fucked up stuff but he did great stuff too).
Internet just makes it more easier to see. This is nothing new.
n/a MargarineIsEvil 2017-05-18
Which country is that? I bet your government is less retarded than mine, which is also full of Chavez lovers. My president has four wives!
n/a LuigiVargasLlosa 2017-05-18
I bet he also washed away his AIDS in the shower
n/a MargarineIsEvil 2017-05-18
That's the one! Being from the third world is so embarrassing.
n/a LuigiVargasLlosa 2017-05-18
SA is still an amazing country. One or two, or a dozen horrible Presidents won't change that
n/a MargarineIsEvil 2017-05-18
Yeah, I think we'll get it together. You guys seem to be over the worst.
n/a Neronoah 2017-05-18
Argentina. The Chavez lovers got out of power recently.
n/a MargarineIsEvil 2017-05-18
We still need to crash before people get a grip. We're Brazil in 2015.
n/a ChateauJack 2017-05-18
France almost ( 500.000 votes close) elected a fucking Chavez-Castro communist lover as President this month. Argentina at least got tradition as an excuse.
Gotta buckle up, we're in for a tough ride.
n/a Neronoah 2017-05-18
Well, at least the centrist was picked. National socialists are not good either, and thatcherites...eeeew.
n/a ChateauJack 2017-05-18
What did you just say about my boi Hitler ?
n/a Neronoah 2017-05-18
Nah, national socialists. Strictly closed borders, nationalization of banks, welfare. You know, like Le Pen.
n/a thefran 2017-05-18
Macron immediately appointed right-wingers and promised to shit on labor.
n/a ChateauJack 2017-05-18
Stfu tanki
n/a thefran 2017-05-18
Súçk my lé díçk
n/a TheNotoriousEGM 2017-05-18
The right choice for South American governments is to back Maduro, good or bad. Venezuelan refugees are overwhelming northern Brazilians cities' resources as well as bringing waves of prostitution, drugs and crime in general. Look at how Syria was exarcebated by pushing out Assad, it's the same deal here.
n/a Neronoah 2017-05-18
Without offense but people tend to escape communism because of starvation, meanwhile Assad at least protected some ethnical groups. Maduro must fall and then the international community should help to rebuild.
n/a TheNotoriousEGM 2017-05-18
They voted for communism. Unfortunately, some lessons have to hurt before they stick.
n/a Neronoah 2017-05-18
I don't mean deposing him (venezuelans themselves will do it eventually). I mean helping rebuild at some point.
n/a OnlyRacistOnReddit 2017-05-18
This is a sub to circlejerk socialist ideas, not a sub to actually discuss the fallout of those policies!
n/a Obregon 2017-05-18
Yup literally
This is a response to someone claiming the state run media in Venezuela is propaganda.
I guess lying is fine as long as it's your liar.
n/a OnlyRacistOnReddit 2017-05-18
I get really tired of that line of thinking from the left and the right. Truth matters assholes.
n/a bjt23 2017-05-18
We all gravitate towards media that matches our viewpoints to an extent. The important thing is recognizing it so as to think critically and attempt introspection, not celebrating it.
n/a OnlyRacistOnReddit 2017-05-18
That's also the danger of keeping yourself isolated to your bubble. I know people in NYC that were sure George W Bush had stolen the 2000 election because "I don't know anyone who voted for him!". If you are that isolated and insulated from other opinions, then it's going to be really hard to pull your head out of your ass and see other people's points of view.
n/a lvl99SkrubRekker 2017-05-18
SOCIALISM IS BUILDING THE WALL
n/a Ksight3 2017-05-18
"It's not real socialism! Not listening! I can't hear youuuuuu!"
n/a ironicshitpostr 2017-05-18
It's state capitalism, obviously.
n/a hbaum11 2017-05-18
truth must be crushed comrade
n/a redpenquin 2017-05-18
I used to enjoy reading /r/socialism since I lean towards Libertarian Socialist ideals, even if I realize it's unrealistic and the only real success was In Catalonia during Republican Spain. But that fucking subreddit has devolved into a massive cesspool of idiocy and censorship since the 2016 election. Angry, pissed off liberals started flocking there and forcing their half-assed "socialist" beliefs on everyone, conversations went to hell, the circlejerk on conservatives and capitalism became ridiculous, and the trolls have also increased. It's a woeful state now and best ignored for anyone outside the new hivemind.
n/a LuigiVargasLlosa 2017-05-18
This time I think it's the tankies and not the liberals acting retarded.
n/a Thhueros 2017-05-18
/r/socialism has always been a garbage fire. Before the election it was just constant edge and bloodthirst.
n/a TheNotoriousEGM 2017-05-18
Didn't they jst keep on losing until the Soviets came to help?
n/a Gothmog26 2017-05-18
The Soviet's wouldn't stop stabbing them in the back. At least the fascists were smart enough to wait till they had won to start the purges.
n/a MounumentOfPriapus 2017-05-18
I read Homage to Catalonia by George Orwell. It was not a success. The communists tried to purge the anarchists. Orwell regrettably didn't get to shoot any fascists in the Spanish Civil War, but he almost shot some of his communist 'allies'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Days
Keep in mind that actual real fascists were preparing to attack them when the various leftist groups attacked each other.
n/a AgentGotse 2017-05-18
The imbeciles over there always complain about capitalist media when it comes to Venezuela and they prefer only linking to telesur which is just Venezuelan propaganda pretty much. Also, they are entering "not real socialim mode" now because things are becoming pretty grim there. I wonder why they keep sticking threads about it because obviously they are not REAL socialists 🤔🤔🤔
n/a PizzaDeliverator 2017-05-18
This is hilarious. Save this for future "Why /r/socialism is pathetic" references.
n/a lifesbrink 2017-05-18
Why, u/enji_iro being a racist? Color me surprised
n/a matrix2002 2017-05-18
Yup, I was banned for there for commenting in another sub. It's like they think banning people will create a revolution, lol.
n/a SeerInTheWood 2017-05-18
"Brigades" now means "found out about our sub through any means other than r/all or r/random and had thoughts or feelings that you shared"
n/a dcismia 2017-05-18
They are not real Venezuelans! There never has been a Venezuela.