He's a smart guy and good contributor to a number of subs, even if you disagree with his rather right-leaning Israel stances. Interesting to see him get triggered this much.
meh... I followed the israel/palestine business for several years (as a disinterested party) and decided that both sides have full-blown autists on the front lines.
I've known lots of Jews and I am internet buddies with a very level-headed Palestinian-American whose family fled from Jaffa in 48.
My main introduction was Friedman's Beirut to Jerusalem and then I spent time bouncing between haaretz before they implemented the paywall and jpost. Sympathetic to the Pals at first, but after a few years gave up when I slowly took in how retarded both sides were. Harder to take in the Pal side if you only speak english. But otoh jpost doesn't exactly endear one to the right-wing israelis.
My current stance is that a 1-state is inevitable because both sides are too entrenched and the democratic israel will win over the exclusionary jewish israel in the end. Haven't really followed the issue much in several years though.
I haven't really followed him in years, but From Beirut to Jerusalem really impressed me at the time as a middle-east ignorant. Which I still mostly am.
Where are its solutions to global warming, acidification of the oceans, and the observed massive collapse in global biodiversity? It's a little late in the game to be "winging it" on these issues. It's a failure and we need to move on to some other system without such built-in short termism and incentive issues.
...so just not even going to acknowledge that there are global efforts underway to create incentives to reduce carbon, because of the observed long-term problem?
Capitalism is not just an system of economics but a political system (as you know). Sufficient measures to not lead to 2C+ climate change as well as its massive associated global instaibility have thus far been 100% politically impossible due to the hugely powerful special interests capitalism has generated.
Also reducing carbon emissions doesn't bring food webs back or make dissolved CO2 in the oceans go away, what about biodiversity and ocean acidification? Capitalists usually just ignore those problems for some reason but they are very important as well.
there really is no serious evidence that humanity is threatened or even seriously inconvenienced by species loss, it's primarily an aesthetic or intangible concern. it seems obvious that you're attracted to these poorly supported doomsday scenarios because they allow you to bash captalism which you hate on prior moralistic grounds, not because they make any sense.
ocean acidification moves in lockstep with global warming from co2 emissions and only becomes a really serious worry if we fail to restrain the warming which will have worse consequences anyway. again, you're multiplying problems and handwavingly claiming that "capitalists" ignore these problems but with no real evidence.
if the difficulty of implementing emissions reductions were an inherent feature of capitalism we would expect to see similar obstacles everywhere, rather than many capitalist countries like Germany being quite aggressive in carbon reduction schemes even in the absence of binding international agreements.
and of course the argument from special interests has to be comparative, ie, you have to explain how industry sectors, fossil fuel rich regions, etc in your socialist-anarchist utopia will somehow be immune from advancing their own interests at the cost of the general welfare. the only attempts i've seen to lay out concretely what a "libertarian socialist" society would look like do not even acknowledge this as a problem and lean heavily on "human nature will change when we take away profit" type arguments that seem wildly unconvincing
there really is no serious evidence that humanity is threatened or even seriously inconvenienced by species loss, it's primarily an aesthetic or intangible concern.
lmao are you actually this fucking stupid, species loss and food webs just don't matter? We'll all eat Soylent Green, man, fuck the plants and animals, they're just for aesthetics. Have you ever read any biology before?
As for the rest, your argument is... nothing? Germany has some wholly insufficient carbon reduction schemes and they're literally the most advanced in the world, while we have maybe a decade at current emissions rates to have anywhere near a good chance of avoiding catastrophic damage. You say "we would expect to see similar obstacles everywhere" and news flash: we do?
I don't know what the solution is but that just means we have to come up with some fresh ideas and fast. You wanna play Russian Roulette with five slugs in the chamber because you're unable to imagine an alternative, but I'm not that foolish.
it turns out that the plants and animals we eat come almost entirely from artificially maintained monoculture ecosystems through a process called "agriculture," and are largely unaffected by disturbances in the world's natural ecology
As for the rest, your argument is... nothing?
ok, so you can't be bothered to understand what i'm saying, therefore i don't have an argument
pk you put up a good front but when it comes down to it you're pretty fucken dumb
it turns out that the plants and animals we eat come almost entirely from
There's been widespread panic about the potential loss of just one species: honey bees. You really think agriculture is that independent of the rest of our ecosystems? Like I said, pick up a biology book some time.
yet again it's obvious that you haven't really researched this, just seized on some headlines that comport with your pre-existing desire to see dirty capitalism overthrown
honeybees are currently the most convenient and economical pollinators for a variety of fruit crops. that's it. the idea that their decline represents some global crisis of food supplies is utter nonsense.00133-3)
fuck man what's the point, it's all a defense mechanism with you
it doesn't perturb you at all when i show that whatever invented crisis isn't actually a crisis, you just move on to the next one, because it's a necessary belief for you that capitalism in insoluble crisis all the time
why don't we talk about the actual underlying reasons you hate capitalism, instead of having all these stupid proxy fights
it doesn't perturb you at all when i show that whatever invented crisis isn't actually a crisis
Because you don't show that. You just think so highly of yourself that any argument you make must be incredibly convincing by definition. Your shitposting attempts at debate are either comical walls of text that nobody reads or really weak shit like "ecosystems are just for aesthetics, here is a 2005 paper that says humanity could at high cost find a replacement for one particular species".
Literally thousands of hours put into defending Israel's every action on reddit.
I think rosinthebow and zachoffables are others that put in thousands of hours as well. I hope they're actually getting paid because the alternative is unimaginably sad.
28 comments
n/a SnapshillBot 2017-05-27
Did you know that the bathtub was first marketed in north america as a horse trough and dog scalder?
Snapshots:
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n/a OniTan 2017-05-27
/u/tayaravaknin /u/incendiaryblizzard
Rabbit season! Duck season! Lions and tigers and bears, oy vey!
n/a donaldthelion 2017-05-27
Not exterminating the jews was a mistake
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-27
hey i remember tayaravaknin lol
n/a lultopkek 2017-05-27
He's a smart guy and good contributor to a number of subs, even if you disagree with his rather right-leaning Israel stances. Interesting to see him get triggered this much.
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-27
He strikes me as just an intelligent and literate fanatic. A model Israeli.
n/a lultopkek 2017-05-27
meh... I followed the israel/palestine business for several years (as a disinterested party) and decided that both sides have full-blown autists on the front lines.
I've known lots of Jews and I am internet buddies with a very level-headed Palestinian-American whose family fled from Jaffa in 48.
Both sides have serious issues.
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-27
there are definitely a lot of counterproductive nutters on the Pal side
n/a lultopkek 2017-05-27
My main introduction was Friedman's Beirut to Jerusalem and then I spent time bouncing between haaretz before they implemented the paywall and jpost. Sympathetic to the Pals at first, but after a few years gave up when I slowly took in how retarded both sides were. Harder to take in the Pal side if you only speak english. But otoh jpost doesn't exactly endear one to the right-wing israelis.
My current stance is that a 1-state is inevitable because both sides are too entrenched and the democratic israel will win over the exclusionary jewish israel in the end. Haven't really followed the issue much in several years though.
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-27
never read it but i've been told Friedman actually used to be a decent foreign correspondent, which is amazing when you think about him now
n/a lultopkek 2017-05-27
I haven't really followed him in years, but From Beirut to Jerusalem really impressed me at the time as a middle-east ignorant. Which I still mostly am.
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-27
he's been a contemptible joke for decades, a byword for elite mediocrity
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-27
What is it we disagree on again besides for noam chomsky
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-27
capitalism
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-27
ah right, the system that can't fix our giant environmental issues and will probably doom us all to a shitty future
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-27
why is the existence of capitalism incompatible with fixing giant environmental issues again?
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-27
Where are its solutions to global warming, acidification of the oceans, and the observed massive collapse in global biodiversity? It's a little late in the game to be "winging it" on these issues. It's a failure and we need to move on to some other system without such built-in short termism and incentive issues.
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-27
...so just not even going to acknowledge that there are global efforts underway to create incentives to reduce carbon, because of the observed long-term problem?
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-27
Capitalism is not just an system of economics but a political system (as you know). Sufficient measures to not lead to 2C+ climate change as well as its massive associated global instaibility have thus far been 100% politically impossible due to the hugely powerful special interests capitalism has generated.
Also reducing carbon emissions doesn't bring food webs back or make dissolved CO2 in the oceans go away, what about biodiversity and ocean acidification? Capitalists usually just ignore those problems for some reason but they are very important as well.
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-27
there really is no serious evidence that humanity is threatened or even seriously inconvenienced by species loss, it's primarily an aesthetic or intangible concern. it seems obvious that you're attracted to these poorly supported doomsday scenarios because they allow you to bash captalism which you hate on prior moralistic grounds, not because they make any sense.
ocean acidification moves in lockstep with global warming from co2 emissions and only becomes a really serious worry if we fail to restrain the warming which will have worse consequences anyway. again, you're multiplying problems and handwavingly claiming that "capitalists" ignore these problems but with no real evidence.
if the difficulty of implementing emissions reductions were an inherent feature of capitalism we would expect to see similar obstacles everywhere, rather than many capitalist countries like Germany being quite aggressive in carbon reduction schemes even in the absence of binding international agreements.
and of course the argument from special interests has to be comparative, ie, you have to explain how industry sectors, fossil fuel rich regions, etc in your socialist-anarchist utopia will somehow be immune from advancing their own interests at the cost of the general welfare. the only attempts i've seen to lay out concretely what a "libertarian socialist" society would look like do not even acknowledge this as a problem and lean heavily on "human nature will change when we take away profit" type arguments that seem wildly unconvincing
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-27
lmao are you actually this fucking stupid, species loss and food webs just don't matter? We'll all eat Soylent Green, man, fuck the plants and animals, they're just for aesthetics. Have you ever read any biology before?
As for the rest, your argument is... nothing? Germany has some wholly insufficient carbon reduction schemes and they're literally the most advanced in the world, while we have maybe a decade at current emissions rates to have anywhere near a good chance of avoiding catastrophic damage. You say "we would expect to see similar obstacles everywhere" and news flash: we do?
I don't know what the solution is but that just means we have to come up with some fresh ideas and fast. You wanna play Russian Roulette with five slugs in the chamber because you're unable to imagine an alternative, but I'm not that foolish.
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-27
it turns out that the plants and animals we eat come almost entirely from artificially maintained monoculture ecosystems through a process called "agriculture," and are largely unaffected by disturbances in the world's natural ecology
ok, so you can't be bothered to understand what i'm saying, therefore i don't have an argument
pk you put up a good front but when it comes down to it you're pretty fucken dumb
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-27
There's been widespread panic about the potential loss of just one species: honey bees. You really think agriculture is that independent of the rest of our ecosystems? Like I said, pick up a biology book some time.
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-27
yet again it's obvious that you haven't really researched this, just seized on some headlines that comport with your pre-existing desire to see dirty capitalism overthrown
honeybees are currently the most convenient and economical pollinators for a variety of fruit crops. that's it. the idea that their decline represents some global crisis of food supplies is utter nonsense.00133-3)
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-27
did you just jump on google scholar and go back 12 years for the first academic paper to agree with you lmao
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-27
fuck man what's the point, it's all a defense mechanism with you
it doesn't perturb you at all when i show that whatever invented crisis isn't actually a crisis, you just move on to the next one, because it's a necessary belief for you that capitalism in insoluble crisis all the time
why don't we talk about the actual underlying reasons you hate capitalism, instead of having all these stupid proxy fights
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-27
Because you don't show that. You just think so highly of yourself that any argument you make must be incredibly convincing by definition. Your shitposting attempts at debate are either comical walls of text that nobody reads or really weak shit like "ecosystems are just for aesthetics, here is a 2005 paper that says humanity could at high cost find a replacement for one particular species".
n/a EvanHarper 2017-05-27
or you could get tilted, we could do that instead of talking about your actual moral objections to capitalism
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-27
lol
n/a OniTan 2017-05-27
I remember to throw /u/tayaravaknin into the oven lol.
n/a Prince_Kropotkin 2017-05-27
Literally thousands of hours put into defending Israel's every action on reddit.
I think rosinthebow and zachoffables are others that put in thousands of hours as well. I hope they're actually getting paid because the alternative is unimaginably sad.
n/a OniTan 2017-05-27
/u/rosinthebow /u/zachoffables