Should the average citizen have access to missiles? /r/Libertarian debates

88  2017-07-23 by oshnyve

93 comments

Those faggots circlejerking about missiles who don't know how easy it is to cook poison in your kitchen, or cultivate a few harmful bacteria and spread them against a whole population.

Yeah, we live in the age of bio-weapons, just use those

Yeah but to weaponize it you need to break it into small particles (you usually need lab quality grinders for that, where you use liquid nitrogen to freeze it first so it fragments to the optimal size).

I was more thinking of Legionella. That shit is lethal, and has flu like symptoms the first days (so if it's not an epidemic the first person to get it usually dies because doctors don't catch it in time). Put it in someone's pipes, or ventilation system, it'll multiply nicely and every cup of water, warm shower, or even condensation from AC will put them closer to death.

Ricin is a poison, with the same advantages : when doctors notice it's not the flu, it's usually too late. Can be cooked in a simple pan, but the trick is not to poison yourself in the meantime. But if you obtain some without killing yourself, it's very effective (KGB used pellets coated in it to kill, victims would think they had a little rash, or were stung by a mosquito).

Homemade explosives are pretty effective too (acetone peroxide especially). The go-to explosive for terrorists on a budget. Then again the main problem is that it's very unstable, so fuckers who try to cook some might end up blowing themselves up. But it can be made with cleaning supplies sold everywhere, in a bathtub (was used in many terrorist bombings).

Legionella

The genus Legionella is a pathogenic group of Gram-negative bacteria that includes the species L. pneumophila, causing legionellosis (all illnesses caused by Legionella) including a pneumonia-type illness called Legionnaires' disease and a mild flu-like illness called Pontiac fever.

Legionella may be visualized with a silver stain or cultured in cysteine-containing media such as buffered charcoal yeast extract agar. It is common in many environments, including soil and aquatic systems, with at least 50 species and 70 serogroups identified. The bacterium, however, is not transmissible from person to person: furthermore, most people exposed to the bacteria do not become ill.


Ricin

Ricin ( RYE-sin) is a highly toxic, naturally occurring lectin (a carbohydrate-binding protein) produced in the seeds of the castor oil plant, Ricinus communis. A dose of purified ricin powder the size of a few grains of table salt can kill an adult human. The median lethal dose (LD50) of ricin is around 22 micrograms per kilogram of body weight if the exposure is from injection or inhalation (1.78 milligram for an average adult). Oral exposure to ricin is far less toxic as some of the poison is inactivated in the stomach.


Acetone peroxide

Acetone peroxide is an organic peroxide and a primary high explosive. It is produced by the oxidation of acetone to yield a mixture of linear monomer and cyclic dimer, trimer, and tetramer forms. The trimer is known as triacetone triperoxide (TATP) or tri-cyclic acetone peroxide (TCAP). Acetone peroxide takes the form of a white crystalline powder with a distinctive bleach-like odor and can explode if subjected to heat, friction, or shock.


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If you want to go full on whacko all-out, you can try to infect someone with rabies. They'd probably won't notice until they start showing symptoms, and by then, it's already too late to save them.

You can even release rabies-infected bats in true villain style.

That would be awesome. Even if it didn't work at all, it would still cause a panic because you know the news would cover nothing but that for weeks, and people would fear it everywhere.

I really hope you're on a list.

Technically I guess I am. If only because there's another illegal aspect of "homebrewed" chemistry I didn't go into which is about making drugs. If you've ever had a job where you even had to buy and use simple harmless chemicals, a lot of stuff has to be registered with our equivalent of the DEA because they simply could be drug precusors (or at least very useful to a dealer).

So some stuff can only be bought in limited quantities (per business), and I'm willing to bet they look into the names of who owns and works in those businesses (just so the same guy doesn't create 5 LLCs, or has friends create them, and uses them to buy lots of restricted chemicals).

The rest of what I suggested can be found on wikipedia (even on web 1.0 16 years ago those recipes were floating around). But smart people don't fuck with that because there's a huge risk of killing yourself. If you make poisons (even if you somehow manage to not kill yourself/your family/your pets) you might disperse noxious fumes in the central air of your building (and make the neighbors sick).

With explosives, you simply die (it happens once every few years). Recently a terrorist blew himself up while cooking TATP (sometimes it's also teenagers who found the recipe online).

And then there's assholes on 4chan who put out fake recipes, but with one step changed so that you blow yourself up. Kind of like those dangerous life hacks.

With explosives, you simply die (it happens once every few years). Recently a terrorist blew himself up while cooking TATP (sometimes it's also teenagers who found the recipe online).

The British Army called this "own goal."

recreational weaponized anthrax

gotten a health insurance that covers even bioweapons.

Another issue solved by the free market. Is there nothing it can't fix?!

Surely free market will also fix all negative aspects of nuclear weapons once there is enough market and customer need to do so.

Sounds like someone hasn't heard of fractional reserve nuclear deterrence contracts.

Our contract was pretty standard, and it simply gave us an option to call in a nuclear strike on anyone who used nuclear weapons against us, and who didn’t provide full compensation. Anyone who nuked us – even accidentally or incidentally – had to pay up or get nuked themselves. The beauty of this arrangement was that any number of clients – the more the better – could have a claim on a relatively small number of nukes, an effect rather like fractional reserve banking. It also meant that anyone who wanted to tempt the ISTWR with a first-use deal would have had to offer more than the income from all the deterrent clients, and that would have cost far more than just building or stealing their own nukes. So the chances of the system being used for nuclear aggression were minute. Above all, for the first time, nuclear deterrence was available to anyone willing to pay for it, and the cost was reasonable enough for every homeland to have one.

Things they don't know about:

  1. Anthrax
  2. Dre

But what if someone violates the NAP by parking his car a few inches into my perceived domain?

FUCK HIS SHIT UP, DETERRENT MY ASS

You made me cackle with that. Fucking good job lol

cawg

Im dying.

Where should one post this (as a pasta) where it will be 100% taken seriously?

/r/Anarcho_Capitalism or /r/physicalremoval think that is nowhere near far enough.

Libertarianism is easily the most retarded political ideology on the planet.

Libertarianism is easily the most retarded political ideology on the planet.

I can one up you. Anarcho-primitivism

I feel like we've had this discussion before and I agreed that was more retarded than libertarianism.

This one is especially retarded because 99%+ of the human population would have to die before this works. Accompanied with an immediate reversal of all the ecological damage humans have done since the dawn of civilization. Not to mention that we'd probably reintroduce agriculture after a few generations and start the whole process again anyway.

I asked John Zerzan what would stop his perfectly egalitarian Hunter gatherer from going beans and starting the whole thing over and all he really could mumble out was "they uhh wouldn't want to". If you ever get to see a guy like that talk do it because it brings the weirdos out of the woodwork. I saw a big fat nerd asking Zerzan about techno anarchy or some shit, some long haired weirdo was saying the bees were leaving voluntarily, and of course there were the libritarians.

At that point why not just join the voluntary extinction movement?

anprims are my absolute favorite because you just cant beat that kind of pants-on-head retardation

Why are so many ideologues so dogmatic that they can't compromise with common sense? I'd probably lean a lot closer to libertarian if it wasn't associated with idiots who would allow joe shmoe and Bank of America a nuclear football because the they think it would infringe on freedoms to ban it.

A private citizen's weapon is for self-defense, not to declare war on neighbors and towns. I don't want to die on the Domino's-sponsored battlefield that was once my hometown. Banning missiles is common sense, not a failure of Libetarianism.

ideological purity or bust tbh

Normal libertarian here. Fully agree with you. There's no philosophy, no matter how pure, that can't be brought down by extremist idiots trying to be "better" at it.

Agreed. Missiles are lame, getting up close and personal with a flamethrower is where it's at.

Which are legal everywhere but commiefornia and yet you never hear of flamethrower attacks. http://www.online-paralegal-programs.com/what-states-are-flamethrowers-legal-in/

So that's why California is so looney, nobody is living under the threat of their libertarian neigbours torch.

flamethrowers are pretty hard to sneak into a school.

I'm sure missiles would be too. Neither are very practical weapons for terrorizing civilians.

You have to sneak the missile in very fast and from above.

SOUTH PARK NEUTRALITY ALERT

Made sure to report such a disgusting comment.

Why are so many ideologues so dogmatic that they can't compromise with common sense?

Signaling is a concept from economics and sociobiology in which a people sometimes take actions not because they are especially interested in the results of those actions, but instead to show what kind of a person they are.

A classic example would be a rich man who buys a Ferrari not because he needs to go especially fast, but rather to demonstrate to other people how rich he is. The rich man may not consciously realize this is what he's doing - he may talk about things like the “smooth ride" and the “aerodynamic body" - but unconsciously he's driven by a signaling motivation: offer him a $20,000 Chinese-built car with an equally smooth ride and he won't be remotely interested.

When signaling, the more expensive and useless the item is, the more effective it is as a signal. Although eyeglasses are expensive, they're a poor way to signal wealth because they're very useful; a person might get them not because ey is very rich but because ey really needs glasses. On the other hand, a large diamond is an excellent signal; no one needs a large diamond, so anybody who gets one anyway must have money to burn.

Certain answers to moral dilemmas can also send signals. For example, a Catholic man who opposes the use of condoms demonstrates to others (and to himself!) how faithful and pious a Catholic he is, thus gaining social credibility. Like the diamond example, this signaling is more effective if it decides upon something otherwise useless. If the Catholic had merely chosen not to murder, then even though this is in accord with Catholic doctrine, it would make a poor signal because he might be doing it for other good reasons besides being Catholic - just as he might buy eyeglasses for reasons beside being rich. It is precisely because opposing condoms is such a horrendous decision that it makes such a good signal.

But in the more general case, people can use moral decisions to signal how moral they are. In this case, they choose a disastrous decision based on some moral principle. The more suffering and destruction they support, and the more obscure a principle it is, the more obviously it shows their commitment to following their moral principles absolutely. For example, Immanuel Kant claims that if an axe murderer asks you where your best friend is, obviously intending to murder her when he finds her, you should tell the axe murderer the full truth, because lying is wrong. This is effective at showing how moral a person you are - no one would ever doubt your commitment to honesty after that - but it's sure not a very good result for your friend.

Immanuel Kant sounds like a retard. I definitetly don't want to be friends with him.

“That most deformed concept-cripple of all time.” -Friedrich Nietzsche on Immanuel Kant

Ima gonna drink my own piss from this here boot.

-Friedrich Nietzsche on drinking his own piss

That sounds more like Clint Eastwood.

the ideology you're looking for is called Constitutionalism

its like libertarians but without the ancap edge

Maybe live your life in such a way that you don't piss off your neighbors to the point where they want to send several thousand dollars worth of munitions at your house

THOSE SANDY HOOK KIDS HAD IT COMING

Why are so many ideologues so dogmatic that they can't compromise with common sense?

Because compromise usually makes you a hypocrite. The same argument against private ownership of small arms works generally against private ownership of larger arms. So in order to argue for one you have to defend the other or else be called out as a hypocrite. Same thing goes for most ideologies tbh, utilitarianism leads to tyranny liberalism leads to anarchy. The only way to lead a good society seems to be some level of reasoned hypocrisy.

Because compromise on one thing and you'll be pushed to give up x y and Z.

Dying on the hill ten miles beyond reason is preferable than allowing any push towards the more reasonable centers.

People should be allowed to wage war on their state to address grievances and problems

/u/38SSM you're exactly the type of weirdo who would threaten neighbors with a SAM for a barking dog. You're also the exact type of idiot to improperly maintain a missile and blow yourself and 3 other houses up because you didn't like the gubbmint regulations on safe storage and handling.

If the founding fathers knew what you retards were saying about weapons possession they'd personally beat ya'll to within an inch of your lives.

threaten neighbors with a SAM

What kind of aircraft do his neighbors have?

Good one.

Founding fathers let people can cannons though.

The materials will always be there. Google tannerite. It's a binary explosive which can be set off with a centerfire bullet. I've used them before. Two ingredients. Ammonium nitrate and aluminum powder. It's literally easier than baking cookies. Nothing badass about pouring two ingredients together and then shaking for a few seconds.

u/38SSM, I recommend that you buy some aluminum powder online. Life will be interesting with your name on the watch lists. And have you ever tried turning it into powder? Really hard for us mortals. Filing aluminum is rough.

Of course, a superhero with your unique powers can probably turn normal aluminum into aluminum powder by clenching it between their butt cheeks. You seem like the type.

The thought of the average /r/libertarian member having access to a butterknife is a scary enough prospect for me

Leave it to lolbertarians to always, always behave like autistic manchildren about every issue

Attepting that would violate the NAP. At which point your automated recreational white phosphorus counterattack system should take care of him

Yes, then I can deal with slow drivers.

Nothing is wrong with giving everyone a SAM missile. Nothing

Q: if my neighbor farts and a single particle of that fart ends up in my airspace, is that a violation of the NAP?

Yes, and as an American it is your right and in fact your duty to blow that sucker's house straight to hell

I mean the answer is yes. Private citizens owned artillery and warships during the revolution therefore owning a aircraft carrier should be legal if you can afford it and staff it and arm it and get the paperwork done

Do you want someone to be able to steal a missile launcher from a closet . Let's assume nobody will be given money by a terrorist network to buy one. Imagine columbine with c4 missile launchers and machine guns

Nice Strawman.

Honest question. Because that's a possibility here. Not a strawman. Most school shooters use stolen guns. Imagine if they could steal those things?

They use guns taken from family members who legally have them normally after killing the owner.

Destructive devices (grenade, rockets, artillery guns) are already legal with a tax stamp. A reasonable restriction would be on the storage of rockets but still their lawful ownership

Yea hope they restrict where the put their grenades. And it's not easy to get approved for grenades nd grenade launchers. Rocket launchers are not legal. And this is all a good thing

No, it's not a real huge concern. Anti air weapons should be more dispersed into the population

Yea because that worked so well into the Ukraine.

Imagine if the rebels had no anti air capabilities they'd have been pounded in to the dirt already

Yea it's like untrained Assholes shouldn't have military hardware huh

No, all govts should fear stepping on the jack of a people.

The Ukrainian Civil War was sparked by western backed rebels in Kiev thought to dominate the Russian ethnic states but they stepped on the jack.

Yea sure it wasn't that Russia wanted access to non freezing waters for their navy. I'm sure there is an equal explanation for the Russian aggression in the other countries around it. It's dad that you'll defend despotism to fit your dumb narrative

Lpt don't abuse ethnic minority groups if large ethnic brothers sit next door

Life pro tip don't hold strategic areas next to a despotic oligarchy that actually oppresses their populace. Because they'll make up a reason to invade you. You are incredible unread on this subject.

Also good, also if your strong enough might makes right

The Ukrainians diddnt do anything to be invaded by a foreign power idjit. Only brainwashed Russian statists think that. Get your shit in order

They overthrew a legitimately elected albeit corrupt premier only a few months prior to New elections and instituted an unlawful govt over the whole of the nation. The east did not consent to the coup.

If the invader wills it then the invasion is justified

They overthrew a corrupt unpopular person trying to size more power to ally with the aggressive state next to them and put in the previous constitution and held and election a few months later get your facts together

Elections are the system to replace someone you don't like not a coup.

Why have elections then? You really are an idiot

See this fun thing, all those people upset about him could have gone to the polls and voted to change they didn't and thus broke the social compact with the othe rhalf of the ocuntrhy.

Except he was corrupt and influencing the election as was Russia. Maybe you should read about it

And invaders allways will invasion you fucking idiot. That's why they invade

Defending a force that has killed potentially thousands of civilians for a oppressive government. You aren't really a libertarian. Your a hack fraud

Muh dead civilians.

It's a war not a bake sale

Lol you've sorta gone off on a talent haven't you. Dead airbus of only civilians shot down aside. You obviously don't care about people getting killed when it coulda been prevented. You just care about having toys. No matter the consequences. Sorta like a child

Wars are bloody tend to kill people friend that's what war is.

Yes and letting people have military weapons will totally help keep the death toll down. Oh wait you don't care about that. Your just a child that wants toys

There's nothing about keeping death tolls down that's something you made up.

Yea there is the entire point of this conversation. People not being able buy military grade weaponry. You complete idiot

No it's not.

People should be allowed to own the rockets regardless of the death toll

Why can't I own nukes then

I should be able to own a orbital Lazer that can destroy whatever I want. Because freedom

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