Hi /u/Dr_Josh_Safer! I'm a medical researcher myself, and i've got some questions regarding the scientific rigor behind the qualification of "gender identity" as natural and biological.
Also why don't you see these people as diseased individuals? I've got schizophrenia, and they can classify me as diseased.
I read several comments before noticing I wasn't in the tab where I have the /r/science AMA open. I thought /r/science was starting to become interesting.
I've always felt an affinity for row crops, and find the open flowers of a soybean plant to be alluring. I think that society should stop being so bigoted in referring to human beings as animals, and that all biological kingdoms are social constructs. We are exactly the same as plants, and I'm sure if I get some surgery I could synthesize sunlight into sugars. The only reason I can't is because of social conditioning and restrictive societal mores.
Also why don't you see these people as diseased individuals?
The logical link is very clear, and if you weren't such a transphobe you would see it. Firstly, note the following quote from the guy doing the AMA:
the science underlying gender identity along with the most effective medical treatment strategies for transgender individuals seeking treatment
This means that being transgender is natural and healthy, and therefore, massive research must be done on giving these "totally natural" transgendered people the extensive medical treatment they all desperately need...because it's natural. Unlike those horrible unnatural Cis people who need no medical intervention AT ALL to be Cis (because it's so unnatural).
You see, spending gobs and gobs of public money on batteries of medical treatments for transgendered people is a natural way for those medical practitioners to make a shit ton of money. It's only natural for them to fuck over the taxpayer and line their pockets providing natural cutting edge medical technology to natural transpeople who will naturally demand that the taxpayer pays for. That's just natural.
Hi /u/Dr_Josh_Safer! I'm a bit of a furvert myself, and i've got some questions regarding the scientific rigor behind the qualification of "species identity" as natural and biological. Also why don't you see these people as diseased individuals? I've got rabies, and they can classify me as diseased.
The medical consensus is that gender identity includes a major biological component. We have no idea what the details are (a gene, multiple genes, etc?)
glad to know you've got it figured out without any proof you colossal fucking embarrassment to medicine.
It's pretty well-established that the SRY-gene on the Y-chromosome is responsible, and they've suspected that epigenetic modification on the X-chromosome turn one into a faggot (although no one will ever research that further, because it's un-PC)
A lot of skeptics cried hypocrisy when Rachel Dolezal, a white woman who identified as black, as being the same as transgender in an attempt to discredit both. I have my own beliefs why this is a false comparison but would like to hear your thoughts.
i mean its not great, for some reason people always feel the need to answer questions for the person giving the ama and are also getting mad that theres 2000 questions and he hasnt yet given well thought out answers to all of them
Well yeah, since they're new comments they'll automatically be below the already-upvoted comments. Not to mention that the upset lads will downvote him regardless of what he says.
You can select your sort as a viewer to be different from the default one. The best for AMA threads are Q&A format. The website view should have it, but I'm unsure about mobile clients.
Setting aside the fact that I believe Serena Williams could kick Roger Federer's ass in Tennis, I think you need to get to know some transgender women. Castration without supplemental Testosterone treatments will dramatically weaken a male. Its my personal belief that the majority of advantage comes from conditioning and practice and not genetics and birthrights. I guess I'm old fashioned.
No you're right, plus I didn't define "all things being equal". To me a real competition would be a man and woman of same height, with the same lean mass (the woman would have a little more body fat).
Also I think women don't gain muscles as easily in the upper body, but that's mostly an issue for casuals, should be a negligible issue for people who train intensively.
Even if you just play sports with friends/family as a kid, you quickly realize Males have a huge natural advantage physically in just about every way.
The most surprising thing to me about people who make statements like that is it's effectively a self-admission that they've never actively engaged in any type of competitive physical activity at all with both genders.
It's a ridiculous point to even argue. There's probably like, female Olympic weightlifters that could outdo you, but they're so far above the norm that statistically they might as well not exist.
As a weightlifter, yeah. The countries that dominate in weightlifting (China, Russia, Iran, Kazakhstan) all have state-sponsored doping programs. There's no point comparing yourself to Olympians.
But it also happens naturally, and those women excel in other sports too. Real Sports did a great piece about a runner in India. Just pointing out that Testosterone makes a huge difference -- many male weightlifters will add more -- and of course most (but not all) women don't have nearly enough testosterone to compete in the same league as men (along with other physical disadvantages).
Meh. I'm quite familiar with PCOS and it's not generally much of an advantage, if at all. Female athletes with PCOS are still well below the performance of male athletes.
I started lifting at 40, after years of not lifting, and I'm very average for a male in my gym but I've yet to see a woman who could outlift me. The top 10% of women are weaker than 75% of men. Genetics is a bitch.
"Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple bottles of ice cold lager" lol..
Are you talking to me or him? Cause he literally did that to me, and instead of validating his troll behavior I decided to take the opportunity to nail him with hypocrisy. I thought I did quite well I'm sorry you don't get it.
Keep focusing on the joke and not the facts. Castrated males lack sufficient ability to build muscle mass. Castrated males who are also on androgen blockers even more so. Bonestructure is a red herring. Instead of being blindly afraid of things people should try to learn about things they don't know. Stop punishing people for things you are unsure of.
I'm not focusing on the joke at all. I'm simply asking you to at least present some argument to his points. You made an original point, he refuted it. You then refute or debate his points. That is how debate works. I'm not referencing your original point about Castration. I'm referencing your claim that Serena Williams could beat Roger Federer convincingly. He offered a rebuttal, and I was asking if you could continue the conversation.
so how abt Fallon Fox, a trans woman MMA fighter, beating the ever-loving shit out of Tamikka Brents, who isn't trans? fluke? she all but caved her skull in
if there's no tangible difference between sexes, why even have different divisions. those women just aren't trying hard enough eh
Didn't Fox lose other fights though? A lot of them? Has been some time since I checked on that though. /u/KatMot also specifies that the talking point to be castrated males on androgen blockers.
You actually failed horribly since he made points refuting some crazy shit you said and you mocked his grammar and called him a big meanie trolllllllllllllllll.
Born with it. Gotcha !
Like how trans are born with biological sex/gender and decide to change it. But you decide to stay retarded instead of changing.
What does that senseless bullshit even mean? Let's get this straight....there are two genders in this world...male and female. Nothing more and nothing less and although different in a variety of ways, that is what they are born as and should be for the rest of their existence, no matter how much liberals try to convince us otherwise. Pretending anything else just shows that you are fucking stupid and disconnected from reality. If you insist you were born this way, or gays are born gay, then I will argue that child molesters were born to molest children. By definition, you are all in the same sick group to me and the majority of normal people. Go find some othe cause to rally behind...this one is a fucking dud and you will always be made fun of, even by your own damn family....and rightfully so
the problem of gender binary, where we think of sex and gender in terms of either “male” or “female” is occasionally brought to the forefront by the world of competitive sports. an athlete who has been competing as either a male or female is suspected of or exposed as possessing physical, psychological, or genetic aspects of the “opposite” sex.
when stark, raving insanity like yours ensues, it shows how emotionally-charged and easily threatened your notions of sex and gender are. so much for the notion that sex and gender are one in the same when you react violently to any other view.
a south african lesbian soccer player was gang raped and murdered recently. Eudy Simelane was brutally gang-raped and stabbed exactly twenty-five times before dying. For Eudy, the issue was not just that she was a lesbian but that her appearance and gender expression were commonly understood to be butch.
Caster Semenya, a long distance runner who is also from South Africa, was recently forced to undergo genetic testing by the International Association of Athletics Federations (IIAF) because her appearance does not conform to what is popularly understood as “classically” feminine. Her musculature and facial hair have been hotly debated, while in her defence, Semenya states that she was born as, and lives as, a woman.
but the reality is that there are actually an infinite number of sexual identities and no less than 5 different configurations of physicall genitalia. yes 5.
we try to force people representing all 5 into 2 gender-identities.
ann fausto-sterling teaches us that the 5 sexes are male; female; true hermaphrodite; and 2 kinds of pseudo-hermaphrodites. a true hermaphrodite has one male gonad and one female gonad. pseudo-herms have either male or female gonads (not both) with ambiguous or inconsistent genitalia.
clearly, the very notion of gender binary becomes problematic in the world of competitive sports which require male/female divisions. its also problematic in everyday life where the same divisions are required. the intellectual dishonesty of it all is frightening. people have always known that there are more than 2 sexes, because hermaphrodism has always existed.
why do you insist that we have only 2 options for gender identity?
Because masculinity and femininity don't make you a man or woman, your genetics do. You could be the most feminine fuckin man on earth, you're still a man, not a woman with a feminine penis. Same for women. Also, hermaphrodites are a true exception, and I don't think you'll find anyone arguing that. I do have arguments about saying feminine men are women because they don't adhere to traditional gender norms of behavior. They're still men.
Because masculinity and femininity don't make you a man or woman, your genetics do. You could be the most feminine fuckin man on earth, you're still a man, not a woman with a feminine penis. Same for women. Also, hermaphrodites are a true exception, and I don't think you'll find anyone arguing that. That said, if they have a Y chromosome, they are a man, if they have an X, they are a woman.
I have problems about saying feminine men are women because they don't adhere to traditional gender norms of behavior. All it does is fuck up people's identity who might display behavioral traits opposite to the expected norms and cause them to think they might not be the gender that they are.
It is all too easy to be a critic.
If one wanted to provide a real explanation for the changing feminine penis, what would this be? There are different possible levels of explanation but the most basic is social. A lot of evidence is accumulating that the competitive behavior of men and women, just like that of other species is mediated by changing levels of sex hormones spurned by a societal consciousness that all genders are gradient and malleable.
Women today behave very much more like men than their grandmothers. After all, they attend college to compete in careers (rather than to find a husband). They are interested in sex. They drink alcohol and do drugs. They are active in professional competitive sports obviously attributable to sexual liberation but this is really more of a semantic trick than a true scientific explanation. It is an exercise in circular reasoning that attempts to negate the fact that a woman can have a feminine penis. We should not be too surprised by that because virtually all so-called explanations in the social sciences follow a similar defective formula in which a compromise is sought be over-reaching the cis-hetero-females' attributes instead of adding more genders.
hormones are such a valuable clue to understanding changes in gender because it reveals that our species is evolving to meet social requirements of the new human family structure. men and women's roles in society are merging.
A boost in testosterone production helps women not only behave more like men but actually develop a more masculine body. All of these phenomena fit together in a neat pattern whereby women change in ways that help them to succeed in different kinds of societies. Such a neat match between body and behavior (or phenotype) and what is required for competitive success is a preparedness to take a males' role in coitus as well. Of course, men have also begun to behave more like women, adjusting to their greater role in caring for children thanks to vegan diets, soy, and the natural comforts of being a homemaker.
you are wrong now. and as we evolve further you'll just become more wrong and out of touch.
If you have a Y chromosome you're a man, simple as that. You're making this way toocfucking complicated.
You can have masculine/feminine men/women, any combo of those, but not a woman with a Y chromosome. That's not how biology works.
We're you seriously arguing about the legitimacy of feminine 🅱️enis too? That's a fucking meme, bro. Next you'll be telling me bussy is a masculine vagina (don't u fukin dare).
We're you seriously arguing about the legitimacy of feminine 🅱️enis too?
it's not a joke or maymay, it's a simple exercise in logic that allows anyone that isn't mentally impaired to naturally conclude that a penis can be masculine and/or feminine. if a feminine woman has a penis the penis doesn't detract from her womanhood. look at /r/dickgirls and you'll immediately see that the "feminine penis" isn't a joke, unless you are transphobic and react to your fears by laughing.
Holy shit you were serious. You can be feminine and have a penis, but there's no such thing as a woman with a penis or a feminine penis. It's just a penis.
It has no masculine or feminine qualities associated with it. It can be big, average, or small. It can have looks-based adjectives used to describe it, but masculine and feminine describe behaviors of a person, therefore a penis is not masculine or feminine.
Really what you're asking is a question about an opinion, and not about empirical facts. What one person considers to be feminine, another person might not, without either inherently being wrong. Because "feminine" is a cultural standard, and because its usage has significant variation between individuals; there is no objective standard to compare it to.
For example: is the color pink feminine or masculine? Well, neither, it's just a color. It's considered by our society to be pretty feminine. It used to be considered, by our forebears, to be pretty masculine. And if two people see a dude wearing a pink button-down shirt, one might think it's inappropriately feminine, and another might not see it as especially feminine at all, and neither person is inherently wrong.
So you only consider big dicks to be masculine? Isn't that transphobic or Cis-whatever the fuck too? All of the feminine penises you listed were smaller than any of the masculine ones. I'd say they're just bigger. Let's see some bussy now tho.
Also, what defines transphobic or misogynistic now? And now personal determinations of masculinity and femininity are bigoted? Do you realize how crazy what you're implying sounds?
Complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS) is a condition that results in the complete inability of the cell to respond to androgens. The unresponsiveness of the cell to the presence of androgenic hormones prevents the masculinization of male genitalia in the developing fetus, as well as the development of male secondary sexual characteristics at puberty, but does not significantly impair female genital or sexual development. As such, the insensitivity to androgens is only clinically significant when it occurs in genetic males (i.e. individuals with a Y chromosome, or more specifically, an SRY gene).
Yeah no shit there will be outliers. I'm talking in generalities. Saying there are outliers doesn't disprove what I'm saying. That's like me saying all murder is okay since some is in self defense. The outliers don't make the rule
Hey, just wanted to let you know that generally the "male to female" and visa versa terminology is considered outdated. Also "transgender" is an adjective so it would be better to say "My girlfriend is a transgender woman".
Hey, u/dual-moon, just wanted to let you know the terms "transgender woman" and "transgender man" are outmoded as of about an hour ago. Use "EXEMPLAR HUMAN" (caps required) instead so we don't confuse you with the bigots, tee hee hee.
How many times have we given you a pass on this shit? Dropping slurs like it's funny and happy and NBD and totes cool?
This isn't funny, it isn't cute, and it's not going to be fucking tolerated anymore. If I see another tranny or faggot outta /u/MegaSeedsInYourBum, you'll never post or comment here ever again, and that is a personal fucking promise from me.
This is so, so, so not fucking cool. This isn't the first time I've brought this up to you, but it's the fucking last time. Do you fucking get that?
OK, that thread was a total shit show (the best kind of show). But there was one inspirational comment which stirred my imagination.
Who's to say what someone wants to do isn't medically necessary, such that taxpayer funds should be withheld? Sounds a lot like we're getting into "death panels" here. ;)
I want to be on those death panels. This needs to happen. What can we do as a subreddit to have me appointed to all of those death panels? I need you guys to support me in this. I can think of no better way to kick off the mayoside than having me appointed to death panels.
OK, that's two on the list. Anyone else. Just as an aside, after I'm appointed to the Death Panels, if you guys want any specific person marked for death, just PM me. $50 - I don't care who it is.
Yes, that's what I propose. Also, we have to wear black all the time, and where ever we go, there will be a guy following us with a boom box playing "The Imperial March" from Star Wars, over and over again.
When does it start? Well, I suppose I have to get appointed to the death panels first (maybe not, we'll see). Then we have to get a budget allotted, and set up a criteria as to who qualifies for death (I'm thinking of setting the criteria to people who piss me off, but I'm open to suggestions from r/drama members). Then the killing will commence.
Oh, and I promise one thing - we aren't going to outsource the killing to foreign companies or illegal immigrants!
Serious posting here: that person is fucking retarded and doesn't actually understand the meaning of death panels if they think denying a girl that wants to be a guy access to that surgery is the same as the government telling a cancer patient they can't provide care to them because it's too much of a cost w very little benefit long-term. One make plans that cover that shit but price them higher than normal plans and don't make me pay for that shit that I'll absolutely never use.
Post bussy and I'll get you on at least three of those panels tho
People actually advocate giving kids hormone blockers and trying to mess with natural body chemistry to delay puberty? Holy fucking shit. We don't let kids smoke, drink, or do drugs because it'll fuck with their bodies, and we don't let the drive, vote, or take out loans because they aren't mature enough to make those choices. However if the kid says they think they want to be another sex we'll now try and make their bodies develop another way because in this case they're now infallible?
Lol that's a widespread / main stream opinion for the left/liberals. (Europoors and disgruntled college commies that feel the need to reeee about left/liberal being used interchangeably in America just kys instead of whining about it kthx)
I guess you're new here, he's been here a while and made that account before Trump was elected POTUS. Also, that's just how we talk to each other in /r/drama.
Nevermind that the science shows that the treatments in teenagers result in happy and positive outcomes, thinking about it makes me feel weird!!! http://www.cbsnews.com/news/transgender-teens-become-happy-healthy-young-adults/
Edit: Keep downvoting me, I'll keep piling in actual science to prove you idiots don't actually believe in anything other than blind bigotry.
As a trans person, I completely agree with you. I don't want to re-post, but if interested this is what I just had to say on the issue in another reply:
Literally the whole point is hormone blockers don't have any irreversible effects. Your argument is basically "it sounds complicated so it must be dangerous".
Right, because delaying puberty totally doesn't fuck up your growth and leave you shorter than your classmates and reduce your bone density so you're at a greater risk of osteoporosis. Oh and its totally not like doctors have no idea how it impacts brain development because they haven't done specific studies on neurocognitive effects of puberty blockers.
But yeah sure it's probably got zero side effects. Why would fucking with body chemistry during a time of rapid and specific growth have any side effects at all? It's just a pause button /s.
First off, how is it common sense to give an 8 year old life changing drug treatments because they feel like they're the other gender. We don't let them vote and that a hell of a lot less of a risk of fuck ups than this therapy.
Secondly, find me one peer reviewed study on the neurocognitive effects of hormone therapy on children that shows this treatment to be safe in the long term. Go ahead.
Jfc comprehend the reading. "common sense" refers to your shaky train of feelings and guesses.
Critics argue that children's psychological and sexual identity development may be stunted.[4] However, the effects of puberty blockers are reversible.[1] A recent 2015 study published by the Principles of Transgender Medicine and Practice, observed the executive functioning in 20 youth transgender treated with puberty blockers compared to untreated trans youth. They found that there was no difference in performance.[4]
So basically, it's a study that found no effects vs. gut fears about "sexual identity". Guess what their sexual identity is already fucked up.
Holy shit, you're trying to prove you're right by just copying a part of Wikipedia?
Let's look at that actual study that Wikipedia cited, specifically the "Selection of Evidence" part right at the start of the paper.
"Some studies of TGNC people utilize small sample sizes, which limits the generalizability of results. Few studies of TGNC people utilize probability samples or randomized control groups (e.g., Conron et al., 2012; Dhejne et al., 2011). As a result, the Task Force relied primarily on studies using convenience samples, which limits the generalizability of results to the population"
Well that's fun for you isn't it. Apparent you're the one who needs to work on recognizing the reliability of studies.
Let's just recap here. We have a moderately flawed study that shows no harm, and plenty of reason to believe it has positive effects. No studies show harm.
So you honestly believe puberty blockers are the one medicine without side effects huh? Even birth control has some unpleasant side effects and they've been making improvements on them since the 60's.
This is a new treatment that has zero long term studies (20+ years) and of which no one really has a really clear idea what will happen to the patients in the long term. But hey! Some 8 year old told you he though he should have been born female. Sure maybe he would have grown up to be an effeminate gay man like the vast majority of those boys do but now we're going to start chemically changing children's development because 0.4% of the population is trans, which apparently means all confused boys who are attracted to other boys and like wearing dresses must be trans.
When it comes to relying on feelings thats exactly what you're doing. Fuck you even went to Wikipedia to try and prove your case. You're encouraging a new treatment method (puberty blockers and hormone therapy at 16) to be used on children simply because you feel it's the right thing to do. The way people talk you'd think 1/3 of people are trans but they're always been a tiny fraction of society. 0.4% is the most liberal number I could get too, it may very well be even less than that. I get that there's a good intention here on the part of the doctors but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. We're just looking at a bunch of future David Reimers with doctors just as sure as his that they're right.
Let the kids develop until they're in their 20's and if they're sure then, they can make that decision. It's not like taking hormones in your youth actually makes you a woman. At the end of the day you're still a man, you're just Thai-ladyboy level.
8-10 year olds aren't exactly a bastion of reason and clear thought. When my cousin was about that age she was adamant that ground hamburger had worms in it because of the shape and that there were monsters in the woods behind her house. She also swore up and down that she had a watermelon growing in her stomach when she swallows watermelon seeds. If we wouldn't trust an 8-10 year old to vote then why would we trust them to make an irreversible life altering choice? They absolutely are not reasonable at that age.
People are also absolutely not infallible when it comes to their own bodies, just take a look at the google reviews for your closest hospital. I guarantee there'll be a lot of negative reviews from people who swear there was something very wrong with them and then got angry when the doctor said it wasn't that.
Well you had a professional 'treat' David Reimer and that didn't turn out great. They were very sure it would work too when they started out.
Being molested isn't even in the same ballpark as kids aged 8-10 not feeling like they fit in and confused about themselves. Self-doubt and awkward uncertainty is part and parcel of going into puberty and I wouldn't trust an 8 year old to make massive life altering decisions about themselves at that age.
Interesting you bring up molestation because that leads to another question; If kids are mature enough to have gender reassignment surgery at 8, are they not mature enough for sex at that age? I'm sure pedophiles everywhere would be pushing for a yes to that question but I personally don't think they're even close to reasonable enough or mature enough for either of those choices.
The point is that the kid is not mature for medical decisions, so a professional should be doing the assesments after some analysis. It's not the kid decision alone in theory.
The question is, how good is the analysis in the first place? As I said, I'm not familiar with the literature to judge one way or the other.
I just hear people saying "Traaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaniesssss REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" mostly.
Let me tell you know, children know they are trans at age four.Four! That's right! You are a puny, dickless BIGOT if you don't give your four year old her daily hormone blockers, transphobe.
I have zero memories from four years old, apart from a vague vague impression of a colourful TV show. The fact that anything I could have said or done during that time period could have affected perception of my gender is insane.
One of my only memories is of a Minnesota Vikings game where a running back very clearly threw the ball on the ground before reaching the endzone but was still granted the touchdown. It's been at least twenty years since that game and I still have no idea how he got his points.
One of the only things I remember from then was some bitchass faggot was trying to take my Lincoln Logs™ so I cracked him in the head with the metal can. Got put in the Timeout Chair™ by the preschool teacher which was the worst thing that had happened to me in my life at that point.
I have a computer chip implanted in my hand and it causes alarms to go off at the airport. I really like traveling and it's a burden, but I've found that the chip doesn't cause alarms to go off when my hand is encased by an anus. Care to go traveling?
I once flipped a kid on a moving bike by sticking a broom handle through the spokes as he passed by at full speed. I think I was 8. The other kid was a little bitch and deserved it.
Mine was getting sent to the "dunce" corner and having to wear the hat because I did not want to sit down in the carpet after the pledge of allegiance. Teacher said: "Why aren't you sitting"? I responded: "Because I want to stand."
To this day, I do not understand why giving an honest answer to a stupid question resulted in me having to wear the stupid hat.
Yes......fear of the teacher would only take you so far....Fear of humiliation in front of one's peers kept you in line....That, and the fear of daddy's belt for pissing off a nun when you got home...
Let me tell you know, children know they are trans at age four. Four! That's right! You are a puny, dickless BIGOT if you don't give your four year old her daily hormone blockers, transphobe.
Hey /u/totestax wanna tell us about the guy with 5yo trans child?
i'm trans. I had an inkling that something was weird about me and I knew I secretly liked playing with girls toys with my sister and liked to "play dress up". I didn't know I was queer or anything. I just thought I was having fun.
I didn't know I was trans until I was a teen, and I wasn't able to be in a position to come out of the closet and transition until 28.
Even if your kid knows they're trans at 4, it's my opinion that it should be treated with absolute information about what it would mean to transition, for them to mull over until their somewhere in their teens at minimum and able to more coherently decide what to do.
I think too many people are black/white, all/nothing. Kids get weird ideas in their heads. We can't treat those ideas with surgery or hormone medication. We treat it with information and acceptance.
Even if your kid knows they're trans at 4, it's my opinion that it should be treated with absolute information about what it would mean to transition, for them to mull over until their somewhere in their teens at minimum and able to more coherently decide what to do.
no 4 year old is "mulling over" anything besides 'when can I have a cookie out of the cupboard'.
jesus lol you guys peddle this crap and then wonder why theres so much strife with the trans movement.
You're right, once you get the idea for a cookie at 4 years old, that's the only thing you'll think about again for the rest of your life. no ammount of being exposed to proper information and education while you're growing up will teach you absolutely anything else in life at all. You don't learn anything else ever. all you are is a person who thinks about a cookie for your entire life until you die.
Basically, yeah. And if you look at Black birth rates, they are super low because of abortion. I'd even argue that the mass drop in violent crime we have since the 80s and 90s are a result of Roe V. Wade and Blacks having access to abortions after that court case.
Nigeria wants to have a word. I look forward to 2050 when the world will be run by Chinese iPhone assemblers, Indian streetshitters, Brazilian favela gangs and Nigerian e-mail princes.
I'm not worried about dickless people reproducing.
Parents who try to force their fucked up views on gender onto their children, even if they are 6 years old, younger or older, should have their children taken away from them, and executed.
I have about one beer a week and he acts like I'm doing a Scar Face impersonation when I do. Odds are he's going to be a nerd, but into guns and hookers the way nature intended.
Nothing like "science" to prop up a small cadre of elites who cannot be questions and then banish all people who question what they are saying or who have a different point of view.......kinda sounds like a religion, huh.....
Although we're far from understanding the details, the key point is that gender identity contains a biological component (perhaps there's a gene, or a group of genes, or some structure in the brain).
kinda like some mental illnesses...
This kind of stuff really bothers me, I have no problem with trans people but the approaches being taken to discussion around the topic just seem so incredibly dishonest and likely more harmful in the long term. Are researchers on the topic who were previously studying it as a mental illness to drop all their work because that's not a nice thing to say?
Although we're far from understanding the details, the key point is that gender identity contains a biological component (perhaps there's a gene, or a group of genes, or some structure in the brain).
lol "we don't have a clue what causes it but we're certain there's a biological component becau"
They should've just avoided this entirely. They knew it was going be a clusterfuck and even posted reminders to the sub to behave. There was no way this wasn't going to turn into a frenzied shit show.
I was actually excited for this cuz I really wanted to learn about it from a scientific perspective without sjw bs but I guess I set my expectations too high
And you guys wonder why your subreddit is going to hell. Y'all have anything better to do than pick on transgender people and get angry when science proves they exist?
People are literally saying they know more about a subject than people who've had years of experience and education, and trying to deny the consensus of just about every credible scientific organization. My girlfriend is trans and I'm sick of being told she doesn't exist/she's a freak who shouldn't get the therapy that makes her feel better, so I guess I have some personal stake, but I'm also very committed to science and fact, which is something which people tend to ignore when it doesn't fit their world view. I'm tired of linking study after study to people and having them say "oh but the media is just biased" or shit like that, look at the paper Stacy, read it, or at least the synopsis.
American Medical Association
Resolution: Removing Financial Barriers to Care for Transgender Patients (2008)
An established body of medical research demonstrates the effectiveness and medical necessity of mental health care, hormone therapy and sex reassignment surgery as forms of therapeutic treatment for many people diagnosed with GID… Therefore, be it
RESOLVED, that the AMA supports public and private health insurance coverage for treatment of gender identity disorder.
http://www.tgender.net/taw/ama_resolutions.pdf
Resolution H-185.950: Removing Financial Barriers to Care for Transgender Patients (2008)
Our AMA supports public and private health insurance coverage for treatment of gender identity disorder as recommended by the patient’s physician. (Res. 122; A-08) http://www.ama-assn.org/resources/doc/PolicyFinder/policyfiles/HnE/H-185.950.HTM
American Psychiatric Association
Position Statement on Access to Care for Transgender and Gender Variant Individuals (2012)
The American Psychiatric Association:
1. Recognizes that appropriately evaluated transgender and gender variant individuals can benefit greatly from medical and surgical gender transition treatments.
2. Advocates for removal of barriers to care and supports both public and private health insurance coverage for gender transition treatment.
3. Opposes categorical exclusions of coverage for such medically necessary treatment when prescribed by a physician.
www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Advocacy%20and%20Newsroom/Position%20Statements/ps2012_TransgenderCare.pdf
Position Statement on Discrimination Against Transgender and Gender Variant Individuals
(2012)
Being transgender gender or variant implies no impairment in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities; however, these individuals often experience discrimination due to a lack of civil rights protections for their gender identity or expression… Thus, this position statement is relevant to the APA because discrimination and lack of equal civil rights is damaging to the mental health of transgender and gender variant individuals.
The American Psychiatric Association:
1. Supports laws that protect the civil rights of transgender and gender variant individuals.
2. Urges the repeal of laws and policies that discriminate against transgender and gender variant individuals.
3. Opposes all public and private discrimination against transgender and gender variant individuals in such areas as health care, employment, housing, public accommodation, education, and licensing.
4. Declares that no burden of proof of such judgment, capacity, or reliability shall be placed upon these individuals greater than that imposed on any other persons.
www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Advocacy%20and%20Newsroom/Position%20Statements/ps2012_TransgenderDiscrimination.pdf
American Psychological Association
Policy on Transgender, Gender Identity & Gender Expression Non-Discrimination (2008)
As stated in the Policy on Transgender, Gender Identity & Gender Expression NonDiscrimination,
the APA “opposes all public and private discrimination on the basis of actual or perceived gender identity and expression and urges the repeal of discriminatory laws and policies” and “calls upon psychologists in their professional roles to provide appropriate, nondiscriminatory treatment to transgender and gender variant individuals and encourages psychologists to take a leadership role in working against discrimination towards transgender and gender variant individuals.”
The “APA recognizes the efficacy, benefit and medical necessity of gender transition treatments for appropriately evaluated individuals and calls upon public and private insurers to cover these medically necessary treatments.” http://www.apa.org/about/policy/transgender.aspx
American Academy of Family Physicians
Resolution No. 1004 (2012)
In 2007, an AAFP Commission declared that the association has a policy opposing any
form of patient discrimination and stated its opposition to the exclusion of transgender
health care. In 2012, the organization released a new resolution: “RESOLVED, That the
American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP) support efforts to require insurers to
provide coverage for comprehensive care of [transgender] individuals including medical
care, screening tests based on medical need rather than gender, mental health care, and,
when medically necessary, gender reassignment surgery.”
http://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/about_us/special_constituencies/2012RCAR_Advocacy.pdf
American Academy of Physician Assistants
Non-Discrimination Statement (Adopted 2000; amended 2004, 2006, 2007 and 2008)
“Physician assistants should not discriminate against classes or categories of patients in the delivery of needed health care. Such classes and categories include…gender identity.”
American College of Nurse Midwives
Transgender/Transsexual/Gender Variant Health Care (2012)
The American College of Nurse-Midwives (ACNM) supports efforts to provide transgender, transsexual, and gender variant individuals with access to safe, comprehensive, culturally competent health care and therefore endorses the 2011 World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) Standards of Care
Please see “Ethical Conduct for the Physician Assistant Profession” (Adopted 2000, amended 2004, 2006, 2007, and 2008) and “Comprehensive Health Care Reform” (Adopted 2005 and amended 2010).
National Association of Social Workers
Transgender and Gender Identity Issues Policy Statement (2008)
NASW supports the rights of all individuals to receive health insurance and other health coverage without discrimination on the basis of gender identity, and specifically without exclusion of services related to transgender or transsexual transition…in order to receive medical and mental health services through their primary care physician and the appropriate referrals to medical specialists, which may include hormone replacement therapy, surgical interventions, prosthetic devices, and other medical procedures. http://www.socialworkers.org/da/da2008/finalvoting/documents/Transgender%202nd%20round%20-%20Clean.pdf
World Professional Association for Transgender Health
Clarification on Medical Necessity of Treatment, Sex Reassignment, and Insurance Coverage in the U.S.A. (2008)
WPATH found that decades of experience with the Standards of Care show gender transitions and related care to be accepted, good medical practice and effective treatment.
In a 2008 clarification, WPATH stated:
[S]ex reassignment, properly indicated and performed as provided by the Standards of Care, has proven to be beneficial and effective in the treatment of individuals with transsexualism, gender identity disorder, and/or gender dysphoria. Sex reassignment plays an undisputed role in contributing toward favorable outcomes, and comprises Real Life Experience, legal name and sex change on identity documents, as well as medically necessary hormone treatment, counseling, psychotherapy, and other medical procedures...
The medical procedures attendant to sex reassignment are not ‘cosmetic’ or ‘elective’ or for the mere convenience of the patient. These reconstructive procedures are not optional in any meaningful sense, but are understood to be medically necessary for the treatment of the diagnosed condition.
http://www.wpath.org/documents/Med%20Nec%20on%202008%20Letterhead.pdf
This is just for transitioning being the most effective treatment for dysphoria. :)
American Medical Association
Resolution: Removing Financial Barriers to Care for Transgender Patients (2008)
An established body of medical research demonstrates the effectiveness and medical necessity of mental health care, hormone therapy and sex reassignment surgery as forms of therapeutic treatment for many people diagnosed with GID… Therefore, be it
RESOLVED, that the AMA supports public and private health insurance coverage for treatment of gender identity disorder.
http://www.tgender.net/taw/ama_resolutions.pdf
Resolution H-185.950: Removing Financial Barriers to Care for Transgender Patients (2008)
Our AMA supports public and private health insurance coverage for treatment of gender identity disorder as recommended by the patient’s physician. (Res. 122; A-08) http://www.ama-assn.org/resources/doc/PolicyFinder/policyfiles/HnE/H-185.950.HTM
American Psychiatric Association
Position Statement on Access to Care for Transgender and Gender Variant Individuals (2012)
The American Psychiatric Association:
1. Recognizes that appropriately evaluated transgender and gender variant individuals can benefit greatly from medical and surgical gender transition treatments.
2. Advocates for removal of barriers to care and supports both public and private health insurance coverage for gender transition treatment.
3. Opposes categorical exclusions of coverage for such medically necessary treatment when prescribed by a physician.
www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Advocacy%20and%20Newsroom/Position%20Statements/ps2012_TransgenderCare.pdf
Position Statement on Discrimination Against Transgender and Gender Variant Individuals
(2012)
Being transgender gender or variant implies no impairment in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities; however, these individuals often experience discrimination due to a lack of civil rights protections for their gender identity or expression… Thus, this position statement is relevant to the APA because discrimination and lack of equal civil rights is damaging to the mental health of transgender and gender variant individuals.
The American Psychiatric Association:
1. Supports laws that protect the civil rights of transgender and gender variant individuals.
2. Urges the repeal of laws and policies that discriminate against transgender and gender variant individuals.
3. Opposes all public and private discrimination against transgender and gender variant individuals in such areas as health care, employment, housing, public accommodation, education, and licensing.
4. Declares that no burden of proof of such judgment, capacity, or reliability shall be placed upon these individuals greater than that imposed on any other persons.
www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Advocacy%20and%20Newsroom/Position%20Statements/ps2012_TransgenderDiscrimination.pdf
American Psychological Association
Policy on Transgender, Gender Identity & Gender Expression Non-Discrimination (2008)
As stated in the Policy on Transgender, Gender Identity & Gender Expression NonDiscrimination,
the APA “opposes all public and private discrimination on the basis of actual or perceived gender identity and expression and urges the repeal of discriminatory laws and policies” and “calls upon psychologists in their professional roles to provide appropriate, nondiscriminatory treatment to transgender and gender variant individuals and encourages psychologists to take a leadership role in working against discrimination towards transgender and gender variant individuals.”
The “APA recognizes the efficacy, benefit and medical necessity of gender transition treatments for appropriately evaluated individuals and calls upon public and private insurers to cover these medically necessary treatments.” http://www.apa.org/about/policy/transgender.aspx
American Academy of Family Physicians
Resolution No. 1004 (2012)
In 2007, an AAFP Commission declared that the association has a policy opposing any
form of patient discrimination and stated its opposition to the exclusion of transgender
health care. In 2012, the organization released a new resolution: “RESOLVED, That the
American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP) support efforts to require insurers to
provide coverage for comprehensive care of [transgender] individuals including medical
care, screening tests based on medical need rather than gender, mental health care, and,
when medically necessary, gender reassignment surgery.”
http://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/about_us/special_constituencies/2012RCAR_Advocacy.pdf
American Academy of Physician Assistants
Non-Discrimination Statement (Adopted 2000; amended 2004, 2006, 2007 and 2008)
“Physician assistants should not discriminate against classes or categories of patients in the delivery of needed health care. Such classes and categories include…gender identity.”
American College of Nurse Midwives
Transgender/Transsexual/Gender Variant Health Care (2012)
The American College of Nurse-Midwives (ACNM) supports efforts to provide transgender, transsexual, and gender variant individuals with access to safe, comprehensive, culturally competent health care and therefore endorses the 2011 World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) Standards of Care
Please see “Ethical Conduct for the Physician Assistant Profession” (Adopted 2000, amended 2004, 2006, 2007, and 2008) and “Comprehensive Health Care Reform” (Adopted 2005 and amended 2010).
National Association of Social Workers
Transgender and Gender Identity Issues Policy Statement (2008)
NASW supports the rights of all individuals to receive health insurance and other health coverage without discrimination on the basis of gender identity, and specifically without exclusion of services related to transgender or transsexual transition…in order to receive medical and mental health services through their primary care physician and the appropriate referrals to medical specialists, which may include hormone replacement therapy, surgical interventions, prosthetic devices, and other medical procedures. http://www.socialworkers.org/da/da2008/finalvoting/documents/Transgender%202nd%20round%20-%20Clean.pdf
World Professional Association for Transgender Health
Clarification on Medical Necessity of Treatment, Sex Reassignment, and Insurance Coverage in the U.S.A. (2008)
WPATH found that decades of experience with the Standards of Care show gender transitions and related care to be accepted, good medical practice and effective treatment.
In a 2008 clarification, WPATH stated:
[S]ex reassignment, properly indicated and performed as provided by the Standards of Care, has proven to be beneficial and effective in the treatment of individuals with transsexualism, gender identity disorder, and/or gender dysphoria. Sex reassignment plays an undisputed role in contributing toward favorable outcomes, and comprises Real Life Experience, legal name and sex change on identity documents, as well as medically necessary hormone treatment, counseling, psychotherapy, and other medical procedures...
The medical procedures attendant to sex reassignment are not ‘cosmetic’ or ‘elective’ or for the mere convenience of the patient. These reconstructive procedures are not optional in any meaningful sense, but are understood to be medically necessary for the treatment of the diagnosed condition.
http://www.wpath.org/documents/Med%20Nec%20on%202008%20Letterhead.pdf
This is just for transitioning being the most effective treatment for dysphoria. :)
313 comments
1 SnapshillBot 2017-07-24
Providing a Community Safe from TITrCJ's Sexual Advances Since October 2015.
Snapshots:
I am a bot. (Info / Contact)
1 Ardvarkeating101 2017-07-24
Good bot
1 Ultrashitpost 2017-07-24
Hi /u/Dr_Josh_Safer! I'm a medical researcher myself, and i've got some questions regarding the scientific rigor behind the qualification of "gender identity" as natural and biological. Also why don't you see these people as diseased individuals? I've got schizophrenia, and they can classify me as diseased.
1 boyoyoyoyong 2017-07-24
The voices in your head are real you should listen to them.
1 Ultrashitpost 2017-07-24
i know, i know
1 MegaSeedsInYourBum 2017-07-24
And yet you won't behead 12 virgins to save the world from dark forces.
I'll help you get started https://www.reddit.com/r/Drama/about/moderators
1 Gothmog26 2017-07-24
/r/incels
1 IAintThatGuy 2017-07-24
I read several comments before noticing I wasn't in the tab where I have the /r/science AMA open. I thought /r/science was starting to become interesting.
1 godofdae 2017-07-24
Randy Orton listens to the voices in his head and he's just fine.
1 Lumene 2017-07-24
I've always felt an affinity for row crops, and find the open flowers of a soybean plant to be alluring. I think that society should stop being so bigoted in referring to human beings as animals, and that all biological kingdoms are social constructs. We are exactly the same as plants, and I'm sure if I get some surgery I could synthesize sunlight into sugars. The only reason I can't is because of social conditioning and restrictive societal mores.
1 OniTan 2017-07-24
Somebody needs their chlorophyll injection.
1 OccasionallyClueless 2017-07-24
There is no biological basis for taxonomy. It exists to create a stratified hierarchy enforced and exploited by Western societies.
1 StingAuer 2017-07-24
filing cabinets are a (((spook)))
1 YiffReich 2017-07-24
If you're a marijuana plant I will fertilize you with my pee.
1 niggerpenis 2017-07-24
And then I will grind up your genitals and smoke them with a pipe.
1 ghostofpennwast 2017-07-24
As a transinvertibrate, you have no idea the bigotry we face
1 Country-asshole 2017-07-24
The logical link is very clear, and if you weren't such a transphobe you would see it. Firstly, note the following quote from the guy doing the AMA:
This means that being transgender is natural and healthy, and therefore, massive research must be done on giving these "totally natural" transgendered people the extensive medical treatment they all desperately need...because it's natural. Unlike those horrible unnatural Cis people who need no medical intervention AT ALL to be Cis (because it's so unnatural).
You see, spending gobs and gobs of public money on batteries of medical treatments for transgendered people is a natural way for those medical practitioners to make a shit ton of money. It's only natural for them to fuck over the taxpayer and line their pockets providing natural cutting edge medical technology to natural transpeople who will naturally demand that the taxpayer pays for. That's just natural.
1 Tehpolecat 2017-07-24
i'm confused about who this stunning satire is targeted at
1 Country-asshole 2017-07-24
It's targeted at the easily offended.
1 Tehpolecat 2017-07-24
im triggered by the word natural, delete your account please
1 Country-asshole 2017-07-24
I would, but that requires effort. I don't do effort.
1 Cloacalla_Festival 2017-07-24
That's natural.
1 VicisSubsisto 2017-07-24
No it's not, aren't you paying attention?
1 Cloacalla_Festival 2017-07-24
I am not.
1 IanPPK 2017-07-24
I'm taking that would require effort.
1 Gothmog26 2017-07-24
Delete yourself please. The easily offended offends me.
1 YiffReich 2017-07-24
Hi /u/Dr_Josh_Safer! I'm a bit of a furvert myself, and i've got some questions regarding the scientific rigor behind the qualification of "species identity" as natural and biological. Also why don't you see these people as diseased individuals? I've got rabies, and they can classify me as diseased.
1 Time_to_Drink 2017-07-24
From your posts here, you probably have a lot more than one disease, fam.
In short order, It is clear you have the following:
AIDS
Herpes
Sore sort of benign tumour on your face, that while it isn't terminal, makes you all ugly.
Dementia
Possible anal prolapse, and/or OCD. Roughly the same outcomes.
Autism
1 satanismyhomeboy 2017-07-24
You could say that about any one of us and still be mostly correct
1 im-a-koala 2017-07-24
Autism is a spectrum, and /u/Ultrashitpost has the whole rainbow.
1 Ultrashitpost 2017-07-24
True, i also have two brain tumors that cancel each other out, i've got a fluid-filled third testicle, and i can only turn my neck to the right.
1 PastorofMuppets101 2017-07-24
Yeah, I ain't taking advice from this guy.
1 Chavril 2017-07-24
glad to know you've got it figured out without any proof you colossal fucking embarrassment to medicine.
1 Ultrashitpost 2017-07-24
It's pretty well-established that the SRY-gene on the Y-chromosome is responsible, and they've suspected that epigenetic modification on the X-chromosome turn one into a faggot (although no one will ever research that further, because it's un-PC)
1 Chavril 2017-07-24
isn't SRY for genital development?
1 Ultrashitpost 2017-07-24
Among other things, yes.
Basically the entire Y chromosome is devoted to making you a dude
1 Neon_needles 2017-07-24
Hahaha.
1 headasplodes 2017-07-24
What a story Mark
1 All_of_Midas_Silver 2017-07-24
So how is your sex life
1 Sesek3 2017-07-24
This is actually going much better than expected
1 baaaaby 2017-07-24
i mean its not great, for some reason people always feel the need to answer questions for the person giving the ama and are also getting mad that theres 2000 questions and he hasnt yet given well thought out answers to all of them
1 Zachums 2017-07-24
He actually just started answering them. Seems like he's doing a pretty good job.
1 baaaaby 2017-07-24
his answers are pretty good but you really gotta dig for them
1 Zachums 2017-07-24
Well yeah, since they're new comments they'll automatically be below the already-upvoted comments. Not to mention that the upset lads will downvote him regardless of what he says.
1 niexx 2017-07-24
the mods of a sub have a choice of sort algorithms right? newer comments seem to be pinned to the top in some threads.
on hacker news its points/age which i think works well.
1 baaaaby 2017-07-24
i think only for the full sub, not individual threads
1 IanPPK 2017-07-24
You can select your sort as a viewer to be different from the default one. The best for AMA threads are Q&A format. The website view should have it, but I'm unsure about mobile clients.
1 John_Ketch 2017-07-24
nigga how the fuck are you at -29. Did I drunk downvote you?
1 Zachums 2017-07-24
I have no idea, considering all my posts are 100% quality.
1 John_Ketch 2017-07-24
Yeah, this is why I downvoted you.
1 Zachums 2017-07-24
Out of pure jealousy, no doubt.
1 PastorofMuppets101 2017-07-24
This whole thread is an anti-trans circlejerk. You said something about the AMA was positive.
1 Pappy_StrideRite 2017-07-24
you're good people.
1 John_Ketch 2017-07-24
:)
1 nio151 2017-07-24
Good thing there's ama sorting for this exact reason
1 Sesek3 2017-07-24
I honestly think most ama's are just a mess anyway so this one is not too different from my perspective
1 ErictheRedding 2017-07-24
It's because the AMA went up and then the Doctor disappeared for like four hours.
1 baaaaby 2017-07-24
i mean it says in the op when he was gonna start answering
1 ErictheRedding 2017-07-24
Sure, I'm just saying it gave ppl lots of time to start answering before him.
1 baaaaby 2017-07-24
and im saying its retarded to answer a question in an ama if youre not the host
1 ErictheRedding 2017-07-24
I don't disagree.
1 BIknkbtKitNwniS 2017-07-24
/u/KatMot
How do you expect someone to take you seriously when you are this delusional?
You think Serena can beat the greatest tennis player of all time when she can't even beat a guy who was ranked #200?
You think serve speed is a social construct?
1 fourbet 2017-07-24
How you know somebody has never been in a gym in their life.
1 xenokilla 2017-07-24
exactly. 98% of all men are stronger than 98% of all women. Its not up for debate.
1 nomad1c 2017-07-24
i am the 2%
1 Oh_hamburgers_ 2017-07-24
In which camp?
1 heavenlytoaster 2017-07-24
The better one.
1 Oh_hamburgers_ 2017-07-24
Can't decide if strong woman or weak man is better...
1 Notthehalf 2017-07-24
Strong men > Weak women > weak men > strong women.
Right?
1 Oh_hamburgers_ 2017-07-24
Looks about right but where do trannies fit in?
1 Notthehalf 2017-07-24
I think somewhere between weak women and weak men is
Fags that know ther place and will offer bussy for the relief of strong man > trap that tries to pretend it's not a fag.
1 Chicup 2017-07-24
They don't.
1 JasonJewnova 2017-07-24
In my ashtray
1 ComedicSans 2017-07-24
Nah, it is just because he checked his ashtray before he checked his anus.
1 JasonJewnova 2017-07-24
Lol is someone report spamming me?
1 ComedicSans 2017-07-24
Apparently!
1 IvankaTrumpIsMyWaifu 2017-07-24
I believe in the 40s they figured they could fit about 30 or 40 in a single oven
1 norb_omg 2017-07-24
Is it Birkenau? Bergenbelsen? Auschwitz? Which camp is best?
1 ExilesReturn 2017-07-24
You and u/MasterLawlz should create a club.
1 Norci 2017-07-24
Actually, it is. Where are you getting your numbers from? From googling around what I found is 89%.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/4vcxd0/almost_all_men_are_stronger_than_almost_all_women/d5xbqxi
1 niczar 2017-07-24
I started lifting at 40, after recovering from illness.
Within months, I could easily out-lift any woman in the gym, even the ostensible gym rats in their 20s.
1 IAintThatGuy 2017-07-24
Even if all things were equal, men will always have the advantage on that metric because of different body fat %.
1 WyrmSaint 2017-07-24
Partially countered by being shorter and the square-cube law.
Not to imply I disagree. I'm just pedantic.
1 IAintThatGuy 2017-07-24
No you're right, plus I didn't define "all things being equal". To me a real competition would be a man and woman of same height, with the same lean mass (the woman would have a little more body fat).
Also I think women don't gain muscles as easily in the upper body, but that's mostly an issue for casuals, should be a negligible issue for people who train intensively.
1 fourbet 2017-07-24
Even if you just play sports with friends/family as a kid, you quickly realize Males have a huge natural advantage physically in just about every way.
The most surprising thing to me about people who make statements like that is it's effectively a self-admission that they've never actively engaged in any type of competitive physical activity at all with both genders.
1 none_to_remain 2017-07-24
FACT: Males have bussy.
1 The_DJSeahorse 2017-07-24
Downvoted for degeneracy. We must stop the bussy epidemic.
1 Devikat 2017-07-24
Fucking Heresy. Get out or post Bussy
1 seaguy69 2017-07-24
Upvoted for bussy.
1 oshnyve 2017-07-24
It's a ridiculous point to even argue. There's probably like, female Olympic weightlifters that could outdo you, but they're so far above the norm that statistically they might as well not exist.
1 pipboylover 2017-07-24
Some are females with naturally higher levels of testosterone than what you typically find in females -- it really makes a gigantic difference.
1 h8speech 2017-07-24
As a weightlifter, yeah. The countries that dominate in weightlifting (China, Russia, Iran, Kazakhstan) all have state-sponsored doping programs. There's no point comparing yourself to Olympians.
1 pipboylover 2017-07-24
But it also happens naturally, and those women excel in other sports too. Real Sports did a great piece about a runner in India. Just pointing out that Testosterone makes a huge difference -- many male weightlifters will add more -- and of course most (but not all) women don't have nearly enough testosterone to compete in the same league as men (along with other physical disadvantages).
1 h8speech 2017-07-24
Meh. I'm quite familiar with PCOS and it's not generally much of an advantage, if at all. Female athletes with PCOS are still well below the performance of male athletes.
1 Harradar 2017-07-24
Also, they're literally all drugged to the gills, which helps.
1 Chicup 2017-07-24
I started lifting at 40, after years of not lifting, and I'm very average for a male in my gym but I've yet to see a woman who could outlift me. The top 10% of women are weaker than 75% of men. Genetics is a bitch.
1 CarnistHappyCamp 2017-07-24
and I guarantee she's one of those who "understand men completely"
1 captainpriapism 2017-07-24
brought up on movies with tiny women beating up large men because it gives joss whedon an erection
1 mehforeverybody 2017-07-24
"Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple bottles of ice cold lager" lol..
1 OniTan 2017-07-24
Heyyyyy, wait a second. Why is the #1 woman below the #30 man? Have these women not received enough positive words of encouragement?
1 KatMot 2017-07-24
Grammar nazis are just internet trolls with OCD.
1 harrah8083 2017-07-24
You took the smallest point in his comment to reply to. Answer the actual questions, or post busssy.
1 KatMot 2017-07-24
Are you talking to me or him? Cause he literally did that to me, and instead of validating his troll behavior I decided to take the opportunity to nail him with hypocrisy. I thought I did quite well I'm sorry you don't get it.
1 harrah8083 2017-07-24
Show me that hole niqqa
1 FPS_Scotland 2017-07-24
Now that that's done, can you address his points? His points are perfectly valid and you've done nothing to refute them.
1 KatMot 2017-07-24
Keep focusing on the joke and not the facts. Castrated males lack sufficient ability to build muscle mass. Castrated males who are also on androgen blockers even more so. Bonestructure is a red herring. Instead of being blindly afraid of things people should try to learn about things they don't know. Stop punishing people for things you are unsure of.
1 FPS_Scotland 2017-07-24
I'm not focusing on the joke at all. I'm simply asking you to at least present some argument to his points. You made an original point, he refuted it. You then refute or debate his points. That is how debate works. I'm not referencing your original point about Castration. I'm referencing your claim that Serena Williams could beat Roger Federer convincingly. He offered a rebuttal, and I was asking if you could continue the conversation.
1 ThrowAwayForTheAdmin 2017-07-24
so dumb twat, how does a woman tennis player who cannot defeat a ranked 200 man, beat the best tennis player in the world??
fucking delusional
1 itoucheditforacookie 2017-07-24
You are the focus
1 PanicAtTheRollerRink 2017-07-24
so how abt Fallon Fox, a trans woman MMA fighter, beating the ever-loving shit out of Tamikka Brents, who isn't trans? fluke? she all but caved her skull in
if there's no tangible difference between sexes, why even have different divisions. those women just aren't trying hard enough eh
1 SirEvilMoustache 2017-07-24
Didn't Fox lose other fights though? A lot of them? Has been some time since I checked on that though. /u/KatMot also specifies that the talking point to be castrated males on androgen blockers.
1 PanicAtTheRollerRink 2017-07-24
sherdog has her 6 - 1. not currently finding info on any pre-professional fights
my main issue is that she went through puberty as a male, and whether or not that affects her strike power
1 Wait____________What 2017-07-24
You're a dumb cunt.
1 jcpb 2017-07-24
.
1 WalterMatthau 2017-07-24
You seem to be wrong more often than not.
1 I_DRINK_TO_FORGET 2017-07-24
You actually failed horribly since he made points refuting some crazy shit you said and you mocked his grammar and called him a big meanie trolllllllllllllllll.
1 ThrowAwayForTheAdmin 2017-07-24
so dumb twat, how does a woman tennis player who cannot defeat a ranked 200 man, beat the best tennis player in the world??
fucking delusional
1 mustg3tbuck 2017-07-24
Oh, you Got him!
1 bleak_new_world 2017-07-24
That's a real scathing rebuttal you've got there.
1 BadNewBearer 2017-07-24
This. Ladies and gentleman are the reply of someone who know they're wrong and can't rebuttal.
What a dumbass
1 ThrowAwayForTheAdmin 2017-07-24
so dumb twat, how does a woman tennis player who cannot defeat a ranked 200 man, beat the best tennis player in the world??
fucking delusional
1 de_frostbite 2017-07-24
Were you born retarded or is it an infection kinda deal ?
1 KatMot 2017-07-24
when the trolls resort to just 1 line insults you know you really nailed it ;) Thanks!
1 ThrowAwayForTheAdmin 2017-07-24
so dumb twat, how does a woman tennis player who cannot defeat a ranked 200 man, beat the best tennis player in the world??
fucking delusional
1 Curlgradphi 2017-07-24
Why?
1 mustg3tbuck 2017-07-24
Nailed me real hard. Got me feeling like Jesus. Thanks.
1 de_frostbite 2017-07-24
Born with it. Gotcha !
Like how trans are born with biological sex/gender and decide to change it. But you decide to stay retarded instead of changing.
1 Readmanunited 2017-07-24
You do know she herself said she can't even beat people in the 700~ rank in the male division right ?
1 IvankaTrumpIsMyWaifu 2017-07-24
B A Z I N G A !
1 The_DJSeahorse 2017-07-24
STOP DOWNVOTING THE LOLCOWS YOU CRETINS
1 Husbeast 2017-07-24
Explain your position on Serena Williams vs Federer. Williams herself knows she has no chance.
1 smokes_degrass 2017-07-24
hey freakshow address how wrong you are about the tennis thing or we're gonna fuck your bussy for real
1 merioupe 2017-07-24
You know you're beyond retarded when you're getting downvoted on /r/drama, a place that generally upvotes lolcows.
Your stupidity isn't even worth laughing at, you're just that insufferable.
Now answer his fucking questions.
1 freet0 2017-07-24
Serena has said before that she can't beat top male players and that she's surprised people keep asking about it.
1 RestoreFear 2017-07-24
Well it's nice that people are delusional on her behalf.
1 MakeAmericaSageAgain 2017-07-24
Daily reminder that Serena Williams is controlled by MK ultra and has been forced into a relationship with reddit co-founder Alexis Ohanian.
In exchange for this service Alexis has promised to help the government carry out social engineering experiments on the userbase.
1 ghostofpennwast 2017-07-24
Serena is controlled opposition. That is why she married ohanian.
Their kid is being bread to join the NWA.
1 werewolf_bar_mitzva 2017-07-24
Better bread than ded dude (or fuck, maybe dudette)
1 gardar15 2017-07-24
NWA is my favorite mayocide group
1 flipkt 2017-07-24
I find it hilarious that nerds here identify themselves with an athlete like roger federer. They seriously think women are going to shit on rights.
1 EarnestNoMeta 2017-07-24
English, motherfucker. Do you speak it?
1 flipkt 2017-07-24
1 rultes 2017-07-24
Hey, it's the /r/drama shittiest freak, /u/flipkt.
1 flipkt 2017-07-24
I was only pretending!
1 KennethPowersMFCEO 2017-07-24
Ivo Karlovic and John Isner are well known for there amazing baseline play and nothing else. /s
1 flipkt 2017-07-24
/u/serenawilliams can you conform?
1 kasper138 2017-07-24
How many negative posts does one have to make in the same subreddit post before they get the hint? The answer is apparently they don't.
1 goon_child 2017-07-24
Serena Williams is a man. Everyone knows that
1 Pappy_StrideRite 2017-07-24
DO NOT Assume there gender!
1 goon_child 2017-07-24
What does that senseless bullshit even mean?
1 Pappy_StrideRite 2017-07-24
the problem of gender binary, where we think of sex and gender in terms of either “male” or “female” is occasionally brought to the forefront by the world of competitive sports. an athlete who has been competing as either a male or female is suspected of or exposed as possessing physical, psychological, or genetic aspects of the “opposite” sex.
when stark, raving insanity like yours ensues, it shows how emotionally-charged and easily threatened your notions of sex and gender are. so much for the notion that sex and gender are one in the same when you react violently to any other view.
a south african lesbian soccer player was gang raped and murdered recently. Eudy Simelane was brutally gang-raped and stabbed exactly twenty-five times before dying. For Eudy, the issue was not just that she was a lesbian but that her appearance and gender expression were commonly understood to be butch.
but the reality is that there are actually an infinite number of sexual identities and no less than 5 different configurations of physicall genitalia. yes 5.
we try to force people representing all 5 into 2 gender-identities.
ann fausto-sterling teaches us that the 5 sexes are male; female; true hermaphrodite; and 2 kinds of pseudo-hermaphrodites. a true hermaphrodite has one male gonad and one female gonad. pseudo-herms have either male or female gonads (not both) with ambiguous or inconsistent genitalia.
clearly, the very notion of gender binary becomes problematic in the world of competitive sports which require male/female divisions. its also problematic in everyday life where the same divisions are required. the intellectual dishonesty of it all is frightening. people have always known that there are more than 2 sexes, because hermaphrodism has always existed.
why do you insist that we have only 2 options for gender identity?
1 tathrowaway666 2017-07-24
Because masculinity and femininity don't make you a man or woman, your genetics do. You could be the most feminine fuckin man on earth, you're still a man, not a woman with a feminine penis. Same for women. Also, hermaphrodites are a true exception, and I don't think you'll find anyone arguing that. I do have arguments about saying feminine men are women because they don't adhere to traditional gender norms of behavior. They're still men.
1 Pappy_StrideRite 2017-07-24
It is all too easy to be a critic.
If one wanted to provide a real explanation for the changing feminine penis, what would this be? There are different possible levels of explanation but the most basic is social. A lot of evidence is accumulating that the competitive behavior of men and women, just like that of other species is mediated by changing levels of sex hormones spurned by a societal consciousness that all genders are gradient and malleable.
Women today behave very much more like men than their grandmothers. After all, they attend college to compete in careers (rather than to find a husband). They are interested in sex. They drink alcohol and do drugs. They are active in professional competitive sports obviously attributable to sexual liberation but this is really more of a semantic trick than a true scientific explanation. It is an exercise in circular reasoning that attempts to negate the fact that a woman can have a feminine penis. We should not be too surprised by that because virtually all so-called explanations in the social sciences follow a similar defective formula in which a compromise is sought be over-reaching the cis-hetero-females' attributes instead of adding more genders.
hormones are such a valuable clue to understanding changes in gender because it reveals that our species is evolving to meet social requirements of the new human family structure. men and women's roles in society are merging.
A boost in testosterone production helps women not only behave more like men but actually develop a more masculine body. All of these phenomena fit together in a neat pattern whereby women change in ways that help them to succeed in different kinds of societies. Such a neat match between body and behavior (or phenotype) and what is required for competitive success is a preparedness to take a males' role in coitus as well. Of course, men have also begun to behave more like women, adjusting to their greater role in caring for children thanks to vegan diets, soy, and the natural comforts of being a homemaker.
you are wrong now. and as we evolve further you'll just become more wrong and out of touch.
1 tathrowaway666 2017-07-24
If you have a Y chromosome you're a man, simple as that. You're making this way toocfucking complicated.
You can have masculine/feminine men/women, any combo of those, but not a woman with a Y chromosome. That's not how biology works.
We're you seriously arguing about the legitimacy of feminine 🅱️enis too? That's a fucking meme, bro. Next you'll be telling me bussy is a masculine vagina (don't u fukin dare).
1 Pappy_StrideRite 2017-07-24
it's not a joke or maymay, it's a simple exercise in logic that allows anyone that isn't mentally impaired to naturally conclude that a penis can be masculine and/or feminine. if a feminine woman has a penis the penis doesn't detract from her womanhood. look at /r/dickgirls and you'll immediately see that the "feminine penis" isn't a joke, unless you are transphobic and react to your fears by laughing.
1 tathrowaway666 2017-07-24
Holy shit you were serious. You can be feminine and have a penis, but there's no such thing as a woman with a penis or a feminine penis. It's just a penis.
1 Pappy_StrideRite 2017-07-24
is there a masculine penis?
1 tathrowaway666 2017-07-24
No. It's just a penis.
It has no masculine or feminine qualities associated with it. It can be big, average, or small. It can have looks-based adjectives used to describe it, but masculine and feminine describe behaviors of a person, therefore a penis is not masculine or feminine.
1 Pappy_StrideRite 2017-07-24
Really what you're asking is a question about an opinion, and not about empirical facts. What one person considers to be feminine, another person might not, without either inherently being wrong. Because "feminine" is a cultural standard, and because its usage has significant variation between individuals; there is no objective standard to compare it to.
For example: is the color pink feminine or masculine? Well, neither, it's just a color. It's considered by our society to be pretty feminine. It used to be considered, by our forebears, to be pretty masculine. And if two people see a dude wearing a pink button-down shirt, one might think it's inappropriately feminine, and another might not see it as especially feminine at all, and neither person is inherently wrong.
That's what opinions are, yes?
Personally, I would consider these penises to be pretty decidedly masculine (even though some of them are on women! gasp!), whereas I find these penises to be significantly more feminine.
Anyone that can't see this is transphobic and misogynistic.
1 tathrowaway666 2017-07-24
So you only consider big dicks to be masculine? Isn't that transphobic or Cis-whatever the fuck too? All of the feminine penises you listed were smaller than any of the masculine ones. I'd say they're just bigger. Let's see some bussy now tho.
Also, what defines transphobic or misogynistic now? And now personal determinations of masculinity and femininity are bigoted? Do you realize how crazy what you're implying sounds?
1 Pappy_StrideRite 2017-07-24
please tell me all about chromosomes again?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_androgen_insensitivity_syndrome
1 WikiTextBot 2017-07-24
Complete androgen insensitivity syndrome
Complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS) is a condition that results in the complete inability of the cell to respond to androgens. The unresponsiveness of the cell to the presence of androgenic hormones prevents the masculinization of male genitalia in the developing fetus, as well as the development of male secondary sexual characteristics at puberty, but does not significantly impair female genital or sexual development. As such, the insensitivity to androgens is only clinically significant when it occurs in genetic males (i.e. individuals with a Y chromosome, or more specifically, an SRY gene).
[ PM | Exclude me | Exclude from subreddit | FAQ / Information | Source ] Downvote to remove | v0.24
1 tathrowaway666 2017-07-24
Yeah no shit there will be outliers. I'm talking in generalities. Saying there are outliers doesn't disprove what I'm saying. That's like me saying all murder is okay since some is in self defense. The outliers don't make the rule
1 Maximothewizard 2017-07-24
He was smoking between sets and old as fuck to. So funny. Women have there own chess class too. They can't compete.
1 SevenTimesEleven 2017-07-24
As an amateur who has beaten a pro female player, LOL.
1 SethRichOrDieTryin 2017-07-24
Hey, u/dual-moon, just wanted to let you know the terms "transgender woman" and "transgender man" are outmoded as of about an hour ago. Use "EXEMPLAR HUMAN" (caps required) instead so we don't confuse you with the bigots, tee hee hee.
1 boyoyoyoyong 2017-07-24
u/dual-moon I feel like it's better to say " my girlfriend is a mentally ill dude that can't come to grips with his love of bussy"
1 wowbagger88 2017-07-24
That's gays. Trannies don't love the pucci, they are the pucci.
1 MegaSeedsInYourBum 2017-07-24
Just call them trannies. It's clear, concise, and impossible to create confusion.
1 IAintThatGuy 2017-07-24
I just pretend they don't exist.
1 MegaSeedsInYourBum 2017-07-24
Which is super easy since they account for 0.4% of the population even though they get mentioned so much you'd think that 1/3 of people were trans.
1 IAintThatGuy 2017-07-24
The hardest part is doing it to their faces. But where I'm at the only trannies are prostitutes, so it's business at usual to avoid eye contact.
1 KrustyKoonKrackers 2017-07-24
You don't stare xim in the eye as you pump hot jizz in his bum?
1 ghostofpennwast 2017-07-24
Tfw you are in bed with a trannie and you forget to bring your pronoun chart
1 Assy-McGee 2017-07-24
pretty sure they don't care what you call them for the hour as long you have 200$ up front
1 disgruntled_lawyer 2017-07-24
Oh wait 5 years after all the enlightened folk who refuse to put their young boys in pants convince them to cut off their wangs
1 TonyFuckingDanza 2017-07-24
I mean it's pretty easy to do, since they make up about .01% of the population and hardly any of them exist in the real world.
1 Pappy_StrideRite 2017-07-24
what kind of life would this be without r/dickgirls in it?
1 NotAllMenAreLikeThat 2017-07-24
President of Iran posts on /r/Drama?
1 Ikea_Man 2017-07-24
this is the correct strategy, and the one I employ as well
1 ason 2017-07-24
You're fucking kidding me, Mega.
How many times have we given you a pass on this shit? Dropping slurs like it's funny and happy and NBD and totes cool?
This isn't funny, it isn't cute, and it's not going to be fucking tolerated anymore. If I see another tranny or faggot outta /u/MegaSeedsInYourBum, you'll never post or comment here ever again, and that is a personal fucking promise from me.
This is so, so, so not fucking cool. This isn't the first time I've brought this up to you, but it's the fucking last time. Do you fucking get that?
1 EarnestNoMeta 2017-07-24
Rustic pasta
1 LSU_Coonass 2017-07-24
the day srd died
1 MegaSeedsInYourBum 2017-07-24
I haven't seen that pasta before. I Though if I did I don't remember it.
1 Kysbu 2017-07-24
The fact that i remember that thread is beyond pathetic
1 ason 2017-07-24
That's an automatic autism diagnosis.
1 Kysbu 2017-07-24
Well I am posting on r/drama...
1 All_of_Midas_Silver 2017-07-24
Context?
1 satanismyhomeboy 2017-07-24
david did nothing wrong
1 FieryChickenSkeleton 2017-07-24
Nah call them lug nuts
1 PhysicsIsMyMistress 2017-07-24
I don't know what all the problem is. There's really only one thing you need to know about trans issues: see woman, see her penis, bend over for her.
1 ironicshitpostr 2017-07-24
Being the receptive partner is haram; men must be the penetrating person with a penis for the act of sex to be halal.
1 PhysicsIsMyMistress 2017-07-24
>2017
>not taking girlcock up the buss
1 Country-asshole 2017-07-24
OK, that thread was a total shit show (the best kind of show). But there was one inspirational comment which stirred my imagination.
I want to be on those death panels. This needs to happen. What can we do as a subreddit to have me appointed to all of those death panels? I need you guys to support me in this. I can think of no better way to kick off the mayoside than having me appointed to death panels.
1 Cloacalla_Festival 2017-07-24
You have my axe.
1 wolfdreams01 2017-07-24
And my bow!
1 PolishPugLady 2017-07-24
Once you get in, please take me with you. I could use some eugenics in my life.
1 Country-asshole 2017-07-24
OK, that's two on the list. Anyone else. Just as an aside, after I'm appointed to the Death Panels, if you guys want any specific person marked for death, just PM me. $50 - I don't care who it is.
1 PanicAtTheRollerRink 2017-07-24
do we get business cards? just so the commoners know not to fuck w me
1 Country-asshole 2017-07-24
Yes, that's what I propose. Also, we have to wear black all the time, and where ever we go, there will be a guy following us with a boom box playing "The Imperial March" from Star Wars, over and over again.
1 PolishPugLady 2017-07-24
I've always wanted my own theme music, sweet!
But seriously, when does the killing start?
1 Country-asshole 2017-07-24
When does it start? Well, I suppose I have to get appointed to the death panels first (maybe not, we'll see). Then we have to get a budget allotted, and set up a criteria as to who qualifies for death (I'm thinking of setting the criteria to people who piss me off, but I'm open to suggestions from r/drama members). Then the killing will commence.
Oh, and I promise one thing - we aren't going to outsource the killing to foreign companies or illegal immigrants!
1 The_DJSeahorse 2017-07-24
You have to wear the medieval plague doctor masks at all times.
1 ftylerr 2017-07-24
I'm in, I'll paypal you the money.
1 dawnbandit 2017-07-24
How much is it if I want someone to stay alive? $100?
1 Country-asshole 2017-07-24
Bidding war is triggered (the best kind of triggered).
1 dawnbandit 2017-07-24
How many REEEEEEEEEES?
1 tathrowaway666 2017-07-24
Serious posting here: that person is fucking retarded and doesn't actually understand the meaning of death panels if they think denying a girl that wants to be a guy access to that surgery is the same as the government telling a cancer patient they can't provide care to them because it's too much of a cost w very little benefit long-term. One make plans that cover that shit but price them higher than normal plans and don't make me pay for that shit that I'll absolutely never use.
Post bussy and I'll get you on at least three of those panels tho
1 Country-asshole 2017-07-24
Two points:
Fuck off with the serious posting! It's DEATH PANELS - we get to choose who dies (I've put your name on the list by the way).
I don't need to post bussy - I'm all bussy - it's even in my name.
1 oshnyve 2017-07-24
asshole =/= bussy you mongoloid
1 MegaSeedsInYourBum 2017-07-24
People actually advocate giving kids hormone blockers and trying to mess with natural body chemistry to delay puberty? Holy fucking shit. We don't let kids smoke, drink, or do drugs because it'll fuck with their bodies, and we don't let the drive, vote, or take out loans because they aren't mature enough to make those choices. However if the kid says they think they want to be another sex we'll now try and make their bodies develop another way because in this case they're now infallible?
The world has lost its mind.
1 die_rattin 2017-07-24
How else am I going to get likes on the Facebook
1 tathrowaway666 2017-07-24
Unnatural Tobacco = bad. Natural Puberty blockers = good.
Duh u transphobic homoeroticaphobic phobaphobe
1 The_Reason_Trump_Won 2017-07-24
Lol that's a widespread / main stream opinion for the left/liberals. (Europoors and disgruntled college commies that feel the need to reeee about left/liberal being used interchangeably in America just kys instead of whining about it kthx)
1 aonome 2017-07-24
No fuck you, some of us are actually liberal and don't like Murica-liberals or the left
1 The_Reason_Trump_Won 2017-07-24
Limeys get out
1 aonome 2017-07-24
We invented you m8
1 TheGirlZelda 2017-07-24
check his user name. i think it's a gag/troll account.
1 aonome 2017-07-24
I guess you're new here, he's been here a while and made that account before Trump was elected POTUS. Also, that's just how we talk to each other in /r/drama.
1 clavulanate 2017-07-24
welcome to /r/drama. Never take anything here seriously, except maybe bussy... bussy is the final word around here
1 mattymck 2017-07-24
i dont think this sort of thing is as nearly as widespread among liberals as you think it is.
At least i hope its not so wide spread.
1 The_Reason_Trump_Won 2017-07-24
I'm not sure exactly how widespread it is but its def very common. I don't think its a majority position or even over %50 yet.
1 Senator_Chickpea 2017-07-24
Hey, just as long as they're organic hormones, naturally hand-squeezed from soy beans grown on the terraced fields of Laos, our kids should be fine.
1 MegaSeedsInYourBum 2017-07-24
Pft, they have to come from Thai ladyboys to be any good.
1 Senator_Chickpea 2017-07-24
Were those Ladyboys given antibiotics in their feed?
Because they probably need it.
1 TheLiberalLover 2017-07-24
Nevermind that the science shows that the treatments result in happy and positive outcomes, thinking about it makes me feel weird!!! http://www.cbsnews.com/news/transgender-teens-become-happy-healthy-young-adults/
1 Juz16 2017-07-24
They hang themselves from rafters eventually, they just haven't been around long enough yet to do it.
1 captainpriapism 2017-07-24
teenagers are fucking retarded and nothing they say should be taken seriously
think of the stupid shit you did as a teenager and then imagine those choices being locked in and directly affecting the rest of your life
its like letting a kid get a full face tattoo at 15
1 jaja10 2017-07-24
because teenagers are renowned for making good decisions, chopping off their dick isn't exactly unexpected
1 All_of_Midas_Silver 2017-07-24
People with a 42% suicide attempt rate are happy?
1 Neronoah 2017-07-24
Have you considered endogeneity issues?
1 All_of_Midas_Silver 2017-07-24
Sure, but that just means the reason they're unhappy is unknown
1 LemonScore 2017-07-24
Go back to stormfront dot com, Adolf!
1 freet0 2017-07-24
bussy is better if it's cultivated from a young age
1 TheGirlZelda 2017-07-24
As a trans person, I completely agree with you. I don't want to re-post, but if interested this is what I just had to say on the issue in another reply:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Drama/comments/6p9alt/the_transgender_science_ama_is_on_yes_its_a_total/dkoch54/
1 MegaSeedsInYourBum 2017-07-24
Yeah that's perfectly reasonable.
1 hexane360 2017-07-24
Literally the whole point is hormone blockers don't have any irreversible effects. Your argument is basically "it sounds complicated so it must be dangerous".
1 MegaSeedsInYourBum 2017-07-24
Right, because delaying puberty totally doesn't fuck up your growth and leave you shorter than your classmates and reduce your bone density so you're at a greater risk of osteoporosis. Oh and its totally not like doctors have no idea how it impacts brain development because they haven't done specific studies on neurocognitive effects of puberty blockers.
But yeah sure it's probably got zero side effects. Why would fucking with body chemistry during a time of rapid and specific growth have any side effects at all? It's just a pause button /s.
1 hexane360 2017-07-24
You sound like you know what you're talking about, but so far you've argued with nothing but "common sense". Got any sources?
1 MegaSeedsInYourBum 2017-07-24
First off, how is it common sense to give an 8 year old life changing drug treatments because they feel like they're the other gender. We don't let them vote and that a hell of a lot less of a risk of fuck ups than this therapy.
Secondly, find me one peer reviewed study on the neurocognitive effects of hormone therapy on children that shows this treatment to be safe in the long term. Go ahead.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/when-transgender-kids-transition-medical-risks-are-both-known-and-unknown/
1 hexane360 2017-07-24
Jfc comprehend the reading. "common sense" refers to your shaky train of feelings and guesses.
So basically, it's a study that found no effects vs. gut fears about "sexual identity". Guess what their sexual identity is already fucked up.
1 MegaSeedsInYourBum 2017-07-24
Holy shit, you're trying to prove you're right by just copying a part of Wikipedia?
Let's look at that actual study that Wikipedia cited, specifically the "Selection of Evidence" part right at the start of the paper.
Well that's fun for you isn't it. Apparent you're the one who needs to work on recognizing the reliability of studies.
1 hexane360 2017-07-24
Let's just recap here. We have a moderately flawed study that shows no harm, and plenty of reason to believe it has positive effects. No studies show harm.
1 MegaSeedsInYourBum 2017-07-24
So you honestly believe puberty blockers are the one medicine without side effects huh? Even birth control has some unpleasant side effects and they've been making improvements on them since the 60's.
This is a new treatment that has zero long term studies (20+ years) and of which no one really has a really clear idea what will happen to the patients in the long term. But hey! Some 8 year old told you he though he should have been born female. Sure maybe he would have grown up to be an effeminate gay man like the vast majority of those boys do but now we're going to start chemically changing children's development because 0.4% of the population is trans, which apparently means all confused boys who are attracted to other boys and like wearing dresses must be trans.
When it comes to relying on feelings thats exactly what you're doing. Fuck you even went to Wikipedia to try and prove your case. You're encouraging a new treatment method (puberty blockers and hormone therapy at 16) to be used on children simply because you feel it's the right thing to do. The way people talk you'd think 1/3 of people are trans but they're always been a tiny fraction of society. 0.4% is the most liberal number I could get too, it may very well be even less than that. I get that there's a good intention here on the part of the doctors but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. We're just looking at a bunch of future David Reimers with doctors just as sure as his that they're right.
Let the kids develop until they're in their 20's and if they're sure then, they can make that decision. It's not like taking hormones in your youth actually makes you a woman. At the end of the day you're still a man, you're just Thai-ladyboy level.
1 Neronoah 2017-07-24
I'm not leaning strongly to either side, but, the kids get counseling, isn't it? It's not just a kid whim.
1 MegaSeedsInYourBum 2017-07-24
8-10 year olds aren't exactly a bastion of reason and clear thought. When my cousin was about that age she was adamant that ground hamburger had worms in it because of the shape and that there were monsters in the woods behind her house. She also swore up and down that she had a watermelon growing in her stomach when she swallows watermelon seeds. If we wouldn't trust an 8-10 year old to vote then why would we trust them to make an irreversible life altering choice? They absolutely are not reasonable at that age.
People are also absolutely not infallible when it comes to their own bodies, just take a look at the google reviews for your closest hospital. I guarantee there'll be a lot of negative reviews from people who swear there was something very wrong with them and then got angry when the doctor said it wasn't that.
1 Neronoah 2017-07-24
I mean, if you have professionals examining the kids is not the same. Although professionals could be wrong.
I'm not familiarized with the literature on the subject to say if it's bad or good. But I wouldn't lean particularly hard to any side honestly.
Either way, /r/drama is probably the last place where one should form opinions about this.
1 MegaSeedsInYourBum 2017-07-24
Well you had a professional 'treat' David Reimer and that didn't turn out great. They were very sure it would work too when they started out.
Being molested isn't even in the same ballpark as kids aged 8-10 not feeling like they fit in and confused about themselves. Self-doubt and awkward uncertainty is part and parcel of going into puberty and I wouldn't trust an 8 year old to make massive life altering decisions about themselves at that age.
Interesting you bring up molestation because that leads to another question; If kids are mature enough to have gender reassignment surgery at 8, are they not mature enough for sex at that age? I'm sure pedophiles everywhere would be pushing for a yes to that question but I personally don't think they're even close to reasonable enough or mature enough for either of those choices.
1 Neronoah 2017-07-24
The point is that the kid is not mature for medical decisions, so a professional should be doing the assesments after some analysis. It's not the kid decision alone in theory.
The question is, how good is the analysis in the first place? As I said, I'm not familiar with the literature to judge one way or the other.
I just hear people saying "Traaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaniesssss REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" mostly.
1 Ikea_Man 2017-07-24
truly that AMA makes me weep for humanity
then I remember the majority of these people never go outside, so it's okay
1 chaosakita 2017-07-24
Puberty blockers are often the same as chemotherapy drugs
1 TSwizzlesNipples 2017-07-24
Jfc...every comment in there is daggered controversial. lol
1 Cloacalla_Festival 2017-07-24
I'll dagger u controversial, bby
1 Fatty-Kin 2017-07-24
OP has it sorted by controversial by default in the link.
1 TSwizzlesNipples 2017-07-24
O...
1 plsgetoffme 2017-07-24
https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/6p7uhb/transgender_health_ama_series_im_joshua_safer/?sort=confidence
The thread is more fun to view when it's sorted by best
1 KennethPowersMFCEO 2017-07-24
Of course, because John Isner and Ivo Karlovic are well known for there amazing ground strokes and nothing else.
1 cobrathecmdr 2017-07-24
Aw fuck I was already banned from the science subreddit. I can't join in the shitshow :(
1 wow___justwow 2017-07-24
just make a new account, it's fun xD
1 cobrathecmdr 2017-07-24
I should. There's so many fun subreddits I've been banned from.
1 John_Ketch 2017-07-24
Let me tell you know, children know they are trans at age four. Four! That's right! You are a puny, dickless BIGOT if you don't give your four year old her daily hormone blockers, transphobe.
1 Chicup 2017-07-24
Yea I actually responded to that one. My only memory from 4 was vaguely getting in trouble for breaking something.
1 John_Ketch 2017-07-24
I have zero memories from four years old, apart from a vague vague impression of a colourful TV show. The fact that anything I could have said or done during that time period could have affected perception of my gender is insane.
1 jimmahdean 2017-07-24
One of my only memories is of a Minnesota Vikings game where a running back very clearly threw the ball on the ground before reaching the endzone but was still granted the touchdown. It's been at least twenty years since that game and I still have no idea how he got his points.
1 almagest 2017-07-24
One of the only things I remember from then was some bitchass faggot was trying to take my Lincoln Logs™ so I cracked him in the head with the metal can. Got put in the Timeout Chair™ by the preschool teacher which was the worst thing that had happened to me in my life at that point.
1 Chicup 2017-07-24
Lincoln logs are very phallic, my guess is you are repressing something, better start HRT.
1 almagest 2017-07-24
You know, I did start hiding them up my ass after this, so people couldn't try to steal them again...
1 DownWithDuplicity 2017-07-24
I have a computer chip implanted in my hand and it causes alarms to go off at the airport. I really like traveling and it's a burden, but I've found that the chip doesn't cause alarms to go off when my hand is encased by an anus. Care to go traveling?
1 almagest 2017-07-24
Sure! I've got some sandwiches up there too, in case you get hungry.
1 CarnistHappyCamp 2017-07-24
I once flipped a kid on a moving bike by sticking a broom handle through the spokes as he passed by at full speed. I think I was 8. The other kid was a little bitch and deserved it.
hi5 fellow psychopath!
1 disgruntled_lawyer 2017-07-24
Mine was getting sent to the "dunce" corner and having to wear the hat because I did not want to sit down in the carpet after the pledge of allegiance. Teacher said: "Why aren't you sitting"? I responded: "Because I want to stand."
To this day, I do not understand why giving an honest answer to a stupid question resulted in me having to wear the stupid hat.
1 Chicup 2017-07-24
We need to bring shame back to school.
1 disgruntled_lawyer 2017-07-24
Yes......fear of the teacher would only take you so far....Fear of humiliation in front of one's peers kept you in line....That, and the fear of daddy's belt for pissing off a nun when you got home...
1 PanicAtTheRollerRink 2017-07-24
I have a vivid memory of being on my hands and knees eating a bowl of cat food
...shit. either I'm otherkin, or... 4 year olds are retarded..........
1 Chicup 2017-07-24
Obviously you are a furry then.
1 PanicAtTheRollerRink 2017-07-24
ummm I've read a couple blogs over the last 20 mins and I am not just a person in a fursuit??? I am an actual cat.
pls don't erase my identity just bc I don't fit society's expectations of what a cat should look like
1 Chicup 2017-07-24
Are you a cis cat?
1 coolusername98 2017-07-24
Lucky you my only vivid memory from that age was shitting myself in a supermarket
1 mud074 2017-07-24
To be completely honest, my only memory of when I was 4 was seeing 9/11 happen on the downstairs TV.
1 Matthew1J 2017-07-24
Hey /u/totestax wanna tell us about the guy with 5yo trans child?
1 JamesRobotoMD 2017-07-24
The dude said they don't ever use hormone blockers before puberty (because why would you) so you can unclutch your pearls ever so slightly.
Let's compromise and allow tranny babies but also allow abortions until 120 months.
1 Chavril 2017-07-24
they will just delay puberty until the child gives the response they want to hear
1 TheGirlZelda 2017-07-24
i'm trans. I had an inkling that something was weird about me and I knew I secretly liked playing with girls toys with my sister and liked to "play dress up". I didn't know I was queer or anything. I just thought I was having fun.
I didn't know I was trans until I was a teen, and I wasn't able to be in a position to come out of the closet and transition until 28.
Even if your kid knows they're trans at 4, it's my opinion that it should be treated with absolute information about what it would mean to transition, for them to mull over until their somewhere in their teens at minimum and able to more coherently decide what to do.
I think too many people are black/white, all/nothing. Kids get weird ideas in their heads. We can't treat those ideas with surgery or hormone medication. We treat it with information and acceptance.
1 deere442 2017-07-24
Yeah cause a 4 year old is gonna understand the "information" we try to convey to it about gender identity and transitioning.
1 TheGirlZelda 2017-07-24
not immediately, but when taught about it over the years until they're old enough.
Like how you learn literally anything else.
1 crimsonchibolt 2017-07-24
you are not going to convince someone with that wording darlin' it sounds like indoctrination written like that try another way.
1 deere442 2017-07-24
You literally said
no 4 year old is "mulling over" anything besides 'when can I have a cookie out of the cupboard'.
jesus lol you guys peddle this crap and then wonder why theres so much strife with the trans movement.
1 TheGirlZelda 2017-07-24
You're right, once you get the idea for a cookie at 4 years old, that's the only thing you'll think about again for the rest of your life. no ammount of being exposed to proper information and education while you're growing up will teach you absolutely anything else in life at all. You don't learn anything else ever. all you are is a person who thinks about a cookie for your entire life until you die.
1 Cloacalla_Festival 2017-07-24
I don't think trans kids should be annihilated until they are 18 at a minimum
1 Fatty-Kin 2017-07-24
It's 7 hours in and he's answered 5 questions. Most of the questions are being answered by random trans people.
Anyways, basically what I'm getting is:
"My little boy plays with dolls and not trucks so I'll chop his dick off so his gender and sex match."
1 Deity_Of_Darkness 2017-07-24
I'm in favour of banning those people from ever having children.
1 iNEEDheplreddit 2017-07-24
Don't worry. The suicide rate keeps them at bay
1 Juz16 2017-07-24
Is this like how abortions and black on black crime keeps blacks from outbreeding everyone else?
1 The_Evil_Oppressor 2017-07-24
Basically, yeah. And if you look at Black birth rates, they are super low because of abortion. I'd even argue that the mass drop in violent crime we have since the 80s and 90s are a result of Roe V. Wade and Blacks having access to abortions after that court case.
1 lemonfreedom 2017-07-24
I too read Freakonomics
1 MakeAmericaSageAgain 2017-07-24
Nigeria wants to have a word. I look forward to 2050 when the world will be run by Chinese iPhone assemblers, Indian streetshitters, Brazilian favela gangs and Nigerian e-mail princes.
1 captainpriapism 2017-07-24
nature finds a way
1 Ikea_Man 2017-07-24
the circle of liiiiiiiiiife
1 freet0 2017-07-24
Yeah because there's such a real danger of people with cut off dicks reproducing
1 Deity_Of_Darkness 2017-07-24
I'm not worried about dickless people reproducing. Parents who try to force their fucked up views on gender onto their children, even if they are 6 years old, younger or older, should have their children taken away from them, and executed.
1 Ikea_Man 2017-07-24
telling your 5 year old son that it's okay to be a girl should be grounds for CPS imo
1 Chicup 2017-07-24
Glad my son is into guns and hookers then.
1 The_DJSeahorse 2017-07-24
Dad?
1 FrostBittenSalsa 2017-07-24
Has he started his cocaine habit yet? It's such a wonderous stage in life.
1 Chicup 2017-07-24
I have about one beer a week and he acts like I'm doing a Scar Face impersonation when I do. Odds are he's going to be a nerd, but into guns and hookers the way nature intended.
1 FrostBittenSalsa 2017-07-24
They grow up so fast
1 RollBread 2017-07-24
"They aren't dolls, they're action figures, mom!"
1 RollBread 2017-07-24
"They aren't dolls, they're action figures, mom!"
1 satanismyhomeboy 2017-07-24
They are though
1 captainpriapism 2017-07-24
how to make your kid into buffalo bill and have him wearing your skin within a decade 101
1 disgruntled_lawyer 2017-07-24
Nothing like "science" to prop up a small cadre of elites who cannot be questions and then banish all people who question what they are saying or who have a different point of view.......kinda sounds like a religion, huh.....
1 I_smell_like_bacon 2017-07-24
[comment removed]
1 ghostofpennwast 2017-07-24
>ask me anything I already agree with
Ftfy
1 Ikea_Man 2017-07-24
AMAIAAW
1 nio151 2017-07-24
Might have not been a question
1 clavulanate 2017-07-24
kinda like some mental illnesses...
This kind of stuff really bothers me, I have no problem with trans people but the approaches being taken to discussion around the topic just seem so incredibly dishonest and likely more harmful in the long term. Are researchers on the topic who were previously studying it as a mental illness to drop all their work because that's not a nice thing to say?
1 BumwineBaudelaire 2017-07-24
lol "we don't have a clue what causes it but we're certain there's a biological component becau"
1 FrostBittenSalsa 2017-07-24
They should've just avoided this entirely. They knew it was going be a clusterfuck and even posted reminders to the sub to behave. There was no way this wasn't going to turn into a frenzied shit show.
1 SageBait 2017-07-24
I was actually excited for this cuz I really wanted to learn about it from a scientific perspective without sjw bs but I guess I set my expectations too high
1 FrostBittenSalsa 2017-07-24
Never underestimate the autism of Reddit
1 SaintJason 2017-07-24
Federer literally just won another grand slam and has the most Wimbledon wins now.
It's like they don't even watch or follow tennis.
1 Nechaev 2017-07-24
u/Dr_Josh_Safer
From the same people that brought you u/SaferBot.
1 takaci 2017-07-24
I didn't realise how complicated this debate was until quite recently. I'm definitely more on the "bullshit" side right now tho
1 Ihurtinside 2017-07-24
So is there any actual science?
1 number-47 2017-07-24
And you guys wonder why your subreddit is going to hell. Y'all have anything better to do than pick on transgender people and get angry when science proves they exist?
1 Cloacalla_Festival 2017-07-24
With a little effort, we can make science wrong.
1 number-47 2017-07-24
People are literally saying they know more about a subject than people who've had years of experience and education, and trying to deny the consensus of just about every credible scientific organization. My girlfriend is trans and I'm sick of being told she doesn't exist/she's a freak who shouldn't get the therapy that makes her feel better, so I guess I have some personal stake, but I'm also very committed to science and fact, which is something which people tend to ignore when it doesn't fit their world view. I'm tired of linking study after study to people and having them say "oh but the media is just biased" or shit like that, look at the paper Stacy, read it, or at least the synopsis.
sorry about the rant.
1 Unicorn_Abattoir 2017-07-24
What exactly is the consensus? The Dr. didn't seem to have any answers, just supposition.
1 Cloacalla_Festival 2017-07-24
17 scientific intelligence services all say the Russians hacked the election to make people believe trannies are crazy!
1 Ikea_Man 2017-07-24
lol, got banned from SRD for a week for implying the mods are enforcing their personal narratives all over their sister thread
as usual that sub is a complete hugbox
1 number-47 2017-07-24
American Medical Association
Resolution: Removing Financial Barriers to Care for Transgender Patients (2008)
An established body of medical research demonstrates the effectiveness and medical necessity of mental health care, hormone therapy and sex reassignment surgery as forms of therapeutic treatment for many people diagnosed with GID… Therefore, be it RESOLVED, that the AMA supports public and private health insurance coverage for treatment of gender identity disorder. http://www.tgender.net/taw/ama_resolutions.pdf
Resolution H-185.950: Removing Financial Barriers to Care for Transgender Patients (2008)
Our AMA supports public and private health insurance coverage for treatment of gender identity disorder as recommended by the patient’s physician. (Res. 122; A-08)
http://www.ama-assn.org/resources/doc/PolicyFinder/policyfiles/HnE/H-185.950.HTM
American Psychiatric Association
Position Statement on Access to Care for Transgender and Gender Variant Individuals (2012)
The American Psychiatric Association:
1. Recognizes that appropriately evaluated transgender and gender variant individuals can benefit greatly from medical and surgical gender transition treatments.
2. Advocates for removal of barriers to care and supports both public and private health insurance coverage for gender transition treatment.
3. Opposes categorical exclusions of coverage for such medically necessary treatment when prescribed by a physician.
www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Advocacy%20and%20Newsroom/Position%20Statements/ps2012_TransgenderCare.pdf
Position Statement on Discrimination Against Transgender and Gender Variant Individuals (2012)
Being transgender gender or variant implies no impairment in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities; however, these individuals often experience discrimination due to a lack of civil rights protections for their gender identity or expression… Thus, this position statement is relevant to the APA because discrimination and lack of equal civil rights is damaging to the mental health of transgender and gender variant individuals.
The American Psychiatric Association:
1. Supports laws that protect the civil rights of transgender and gender variant individuals.
2. Urges the repeal of laws and policies that discriminate against transgender and gender variant individuals.
3. Opposes all public and private discrimination against transgender and gender variant individuals in such areas as health care, employment, housing, public accommodation, education, and licensing.
4. Declares that no burden of proof of such judgment, capacity, or reliability shall be placed upon these individuals greater than that imposed on any other persons. www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Advocacy%20and%20Newsroom/Position%20Statements/ps2012_TransgenderDiscrimination.pdf
American Psychological Association Policy on Transgender, Gender Identity & Gender Expression Non-Discrimination (2008) As stated in the Policy on Transgender, Gender Identity & Gender Expression NonDiscrimination, the APA “opposes all public and private discrimination on the basis of actual or perceived gender identity and expression and urges the repeal of discriminatory laws and policies” and “calls upon psychologists in their professional roles to provide appropriate, nondiscriminatory treatment to transgender and gender variant individuals and encourages psychologists to take a leadership role in working against discrimination towards transgender and gender variant individuals.”
The “APA recognizes the efficacy, benefit and medical necessity of gender transition treatments for appropriately evaluated individuals and calls upon public and private insurers to cover these medically necessary treatments.”
http://www.apa.org/about/policy/transgender.aspx
American Academy of Family Physicians
Resolution No. 1004 (2012) In 2007, an AAFP Commission declared that the association has a policy opposing any form of patient discrimination and stated its opposition to the exclusion of transgender health care. In 2012, the organization released a new resolution: “RESOLVED, That the American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP) support efforts to require insurers to provide coverage for comprehensive care of [transgender] individuals including medical care, screening tests based on medical need rather than gender, mental health care, and, when medically necessary, gender reassignment surgery.” http://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/about_us/special_constituencies/2012RCAR_Advocacy.pdf
American Academy of Physician Assistants
Non-Discrimination Statement (Adopted 2000; amended 2004, 2006, 2007 and 2008) “Physician assistants should not discriminate against classes or categories of patients in the delivery of needed health care. Such classes and categories include…gender identity.”
American College of Nurse Midwives
Transgender/Transsexual/Gender Variant Health Care (2012) The American College of Nurse-Midwives (ACNM) supports efforts to provide transgender, transsexual, and gender variant individuals with access to safe, comprehensive, culturally competent health care and therefore endorses the 2011 World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) Standards of Care
Please see “Ethical Conduct for the Physician Assistant Profession” (Adopted 2000, amended 2004, 2006, 2007, and 2008) and “Comprehensive Health Care Reform” (Adopted 2005 and amended 2010).
National Association of Social Workers
Transgender and Gender Identity Issues Policy Statement (2008) NASW supports the rights of all individuals to receive health insurance and other health coverage without discrimination on the basis of gender identity, and specifically without exclusion of services related to transgender or transsexual transition…in order to receive medical and mental health services through their primary care physician and the appropriate referrals to medical specialists, which may include hormone replacement therapy, surgical interventions, prosthetic devices, and other medical procedures.
http://www.socialworkers.org/da/da2008/finalvoting/documents/Transgender%202nd%20round%20-%20Clean.pdf
World Professional Association for Transgender Health
Clarification on Medical Necessity of Treatment, Sex Reassignment, and Insurance Coverage in the U.S.A. (2008)
WPATH found that decades of experience with the Standards of Care show gender transitions and related care to be accepted, good medical practice and effective treatment.
In a 2008 clarification, WPATH stated:
[S]ex reassignment, properly indicated and performed as provided by the Standards of Care, has proven to be beneficial and effective in the treatment of individuals with transsexualism, gender identity disorder, and/or gender dysphoria. Sex reassignment plays an undisputed role in contributing toward favorable outcomes, and comprises Real Life Experience, legal name and sex change on identity documents, as well as medically necessary hormone treatment, counseling, psychotherapy, and other medical procedures...
The medical procedures attendant to sex reassignment are not ‘cosmetic’ or ‘elective’ or for the mere convenience of the patient. These reconstructive procedures are not optional in any meaningful sense, but are understood to be medically necessary for the treatment of the diagnosed condition. http://www.wpath.org/documents/Med%20Nec%20on%202008%20Letterhead.pdf
This is just for transitioning being the most effective treatment for dysphoria. :)
1 number-47 2017-07-24
American Medical Association
Resolution: Removing Financial Barriers to Care for Transgender Patients (2008)
An established body of medical research demonstrates the effectiveness and medical necessity of mental health care, hormone therapy and sex reassignment surgery as forms of therapeutic treatment for many people diagnosed with GID… Therefore, be it RESOLVED, that the AMA supports public and private health insurance coverage for treatment of gender identity disorder. http://www.tgender.net/taw/ama_resolutions.pdf
Resolution H-185.950: Removing Financial Barriers to Care for Transgender Patients (2008)
Our AMA supports public and private health insurance coverage for treatment of gender identity disorder as recommended by the patient’s physician. (Res. 122; A-08)
http://www.ama-assn.org/resources/doc/PolicyFinder/policyfiles/HnE/H-185.950.HTM
American Psychiatric Association
Position Statement on Access to Care for Transgender and Gender Variant Individuals (2012)
The American Psychiatric Association:
1. Recognizes that appropriately evaluated transgender and gender variant individuals can benefit greatly from medical and surgical gender transition treatments.
2. Advocates for removal of barriers to care and supports both public and private health insurance coverage for gender transition treatment.
3. Opposes categorical exclusions of coverage for such medically necessary treatment when prescribed by a physician.
www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Advocacy%20and%20Newsroom/Position%20Statements/ps2012_TransgenderCare.pdf
Position Statement on Discrimination Against Transgender and Gender Variant Individuals (2012)
Being transgender gender or variant implies no impairment in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities; however, these individuals often experience discrimination due to a lack of civil rights protections for their gender identity or expression… Thus, this position statement is relevant to the APA because discrimination and lack of equal civil rights is damaging to the mental health of transgender and gender variant individuals.
The American Psychiatric Association:
1. Supports laws that protect the civil rights of transgender and gender variant individuals.
2. Urges the repeal of laws and policies that discriminate against transgender and gender variant individuals.
3. Opposes all public and private discrimination against transgender and gender variant individuals in such areas as health care, employment, housing, public accommodation, education, and licensing.
4. Declares that no burden of proof of such judgment, capacity, or reliability shall be placed upon these individuals greater than that imposed on any other persons. www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Advocacy%20and%20Newsroom/Position%20Statements/ps2012_TransgenderDiscrimination.pdf
American Psychological Association Policy on Transgender, Gender Identity & Gender Expression Non-Discrimination (2008) As stated in the Policy on Transgender, Gender Identity & Gender Expression NonDiscrimination, the APA “opposes all public and private discrimination on the basis of actual or perceived gender identity and expression and urges the repeal of discriminatory laws and policies” and “calls upon psychologists in their professional roles to provide appropriate, nondiscriminatory treatment to transgender and gender variant individuals and encourages psychologists to take a leadership role in working against discrimination towards transgender and gender variant individuals.”
The “APA recognizes the efficacy, benefit and medical necessity of gender transition treatments for appropriately evaluated individuals and calls upon public and private insurers to cover these medically necessary treatments.”
http://www.apa.org/about/policy/transgender.aspx
American Academy of Family Physicians
Resolution No. 1004 (2012) In 2007, an AAFP Commission declared that the association has a policy opposing any form of patient discrimination and stated its opposition to the exclusion of transgender health care. In 2012, the organization released a new resolution: “RESOLVED, That the American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP) support efforts to require insurers to provide coverage for comprehensive care of [transgender] individuals including medical care, screening tests based on medical need rather than gender, mental health care, and, when medically necessary, gender reassignment surgery.” http://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/about_us/special_constituencies/2012RCAR_Advocacy.pdf
American Academy of Physician Assistants
Non-Discrimination Statement (Adopted 2000; amended 2004, 2006, 2007 and 2008) “Physician assistants should not discriminate against classes or categories of patients in the delivery of needed health care. Such classes and categories include…gender identity.”
American College of Nurse Midwives
Transgender/Transsexual/Gender Variant Health Care (2012) The American College of Nurse-Midwives (ACNM) supports efforts to provide transgender, transsexual, and gender variant individuals with access to safe, comprehensive, culturally competent health care and therefore endorses the 2011 World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) Standards of Care
Please see “Ethical Conduct for the Physician Assistant Profession” (Adopted 2000, amended 2004, 2006, 2007, and 2008) and “Comprehensive Health Care Reform” (Adopted 2005 and amended 2010).
National Association of Social Workers
Transgender and Gender Identity Issues Policy Statement (2008) NASW supports the rights of all individuals to receive health insurance and other health coverage without discrimination on the basis of gender identity, and specifically without exclusion of services related to transgender or transsexual transition…in order to receive medical and mental health services through their primary care physician and the appropriate referrals to medical specialists, which may include hormone replacement therapy, surgical interventions, prosthetic devices, and other medical procedures.
http://www.socialworkers.org/da/da2008/finalvoting/documents/Transgender%202nd%20round%20-%20Clean.pdf
World Professional Association for Transgender Health
Clarification on Medical Necessity of Treatment, Sex Reassignment, and Insurance Coverage in the U.S.A. (2008)
WPATH found that decades of experience with the Standards of Care show gender transitions and related care to be accepted, good medical practice and effective treatment.
In a 2008 clarification, WPATH stated:
[S]ex reassignment, properly indicated and performed as provided by the Standards of Care, has proven to be beneficial and effective in the treatment of individuals with transsexualism, gender identity disorder, and/or gender dysphoria. Sex reassignment plays an undisputed role in contributing toward favorable outcomes, and comprises Real Life Experience, legal name and sex change on identity documents, as well as medically necessary hormone treatment, counseling, psychotherapy, and other medical procedures...
The medical procedures attendant to sex reassignment are not ‘cosmetic’ or ‘elective’ or for the mere convenience of the patient. These reconstructive procedures are not optional in any meaningful sense, but are understood to be medically necessary for the treatment of the diagnosed condition. http://www.wpath.org/documents/Med%20Nec%20on%202008%20Letterhead.pdf
This is just for transitioning being the most effective treatment for dysphoria. :)