Linguists strongly argue about whether it's acceptable to mention in an academic context the use of the word "nigger"

51  2017-07-27 by NegativStalinCovfefe

Fair warning: This is a big, somewhat technical doozy.

Professer Geoffrey K. Pullum is a linguistics professor at the U of Edinburgh. He's also co-author of voluminous tome The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language. So he's not some lightweight nobody. He's also a self-proclaimed anti-racist.

On July 10, he posted "Tory uses N-word... not to Language Log. The gist of it is that people were accusing Conservative MP Anne Marie Morris of calling someone a nigger. She didn't. She said, "Now we get to the real nigger in the woodpile, which is in two years what happens if there is no deal." Following this, she was suspended from the party. Prof. Pullum defends her: "Referring to a hidden problem as a nigger in the woodpile is not a "racist remark," and the Financial Times should not have called it that. ... Ms. Morris did use the word nigger, in the sense that she uttered it. But not to refer to any black person. It's very much like the issue of whether your uncle has mentioned buckets when what in fact he said was that a friend of his had kicked the bucket. He did use the word bucket, in a way, but not to refer to a bucket." Also word mentioning is that Morris's electoral partner and agent likes to talk about "the immigrants are taking our jerbs", so compared to some other British MPs, it's "not that racist". He also is afraid of giving the word "taboo power", like that pang of guilty pleasure when you brag about your body pillow collection to your mom, you sick fuck.

Unfortunately Prof. Pullum doesn't enable comments on any of his posts, so we'll have to look for the drama elsewhere. Like here. This is a rebuttal from "friends of a friend". They bring up the old chestnut of "...it’s ultimately not for us as white individuals, or for anybody outside of the oppressed group in question, to declare exactly what is or is not a racist act." They also claim that "There is a consensus in the semantic/pragmatic and philosophical literature on the topic that slurs aggressively attach to the speaker, committing them to a racist attitude even in embedded contexts." So apparently if you condemn Dylan Roof for calling black people niggers, that makes you a racist as well by association.

TL;DR: Black people might get triggered by the word "nigger", so it's better to censor it.

As always, the real gold is in the comments:

Meanwhile, Berkeley professor Geoff Nunberg posts his own rebuttal, but concerned more with Prof. Pullum's logic than him mentioning the word "nigger". Naturally, the guest authors accuse him of racism as well.

Finally, a rebuttal to the rebuttal by Berkeley professor Geoff Nunberg.. There's a probable T_D troll buried in the comments of this one, for a change of pace.

TL;DR The word "nigger" is a Spell of +45 Literally Violence

35 comments

1  SnapshillBot 2017-07-27

Neat.

Snapshots:

  1. This Post - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, snew.github.io, archive.is

  2. "Tory uses N-word... not - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, archive.is

  3. Like here. - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, archive.is

  4. comments - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, archive.is

  5. A comparison to victims of axe viol... - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, archive.is

  6. Someone points out a contradiction ... - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, archive.is

  7. Prof. Pullum roasts people accusing... - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, archive.is

  8. his own rebuttal - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, archive.is

  9. Finally, a rebuttal to the rebuttal... - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, archive.is

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1  tomato_man123 2017-07-27

Damn. Languagelog drama is some high class drama by r/drama standards. Also Mark Liberman is a breddy cool guy 😎

1  Ultrashitpost 2017-07-27

"...it’s ultimately not for us as white individuals, or for anybody outside of the oppressed group in question, to declare exactly what is or is not a racist act."

In that case you'll end up with overtly sensitive people claiming that everything is racist, even the way you stand in certain spot. Oh wait, that already happened.

1  SmurfPrivilege 2017-07-27

even the way you stand in certain spot. Oh wait, that already happened.

Could you elaborate on this?

1  Ultrashitpost 2017-07-27

During those Evergreen "protests", one angry black woman was accusing the principal of 'colonizing' their space by just being there.

I think it was in this video.

1  nomad1c 2017-07-27

i was happier not knowing this happened

1  444455555666666 2017-07-27

I just wanted to watch niggers nog, not listen to this pseudo-intellectual sargon wannabe

1  Ultrashitpost 2017-07-27

Then skip past it, because the original uncut vid isn't available anymore.

1  444455555666666 2017-07-27

I don't want to give racists any more views

1  backltrack 2017-07-27

Yeah all these anti sjw skeptic commentators with their shitty avatars and whiney voices piss me off. Not because I disagree with what theyre saying but just because they're so fucking pretensious

1  grungebot5000 2017-07-27

no one even knows what evergreen is outside of reddit.

it's true, i did a poll

1  Works_of_memercy 2017-07-27

But not to refer to any black person. It's very much like the issue of whether your uncle has mentioned buckets when what in fact he said was that a friend of his had kicked the bucket. He did use the word bucket, in a way, but not to refer to a bucket.

What the fuck? So, um, if I say that Becky looks at Aaron's ass like a nigger at a bicycle, or, idk, like a kike at a silver piece, there won't be anything wrong with that either? Just a figure of speech that doesn't refer negatively to any particular person, it's merely powered by a negative stereotype of the group as a whole?

But yeah, way to go to fuck up this open and shut case by going for identity politics and how it's not up to cumskins to decide or discuss instead. That's some next level virtue signaling, when you don't just support the most questionable case you can find, but take a perfectly unambiguous situation and make it controversial by supporting the correct decision with the most retarded argument you can come up with.

1  tathrowaway666 2017-07-27

Your comparisons don't translate perfectly though because the subject is still the slur racial group. Nigger doesn't have that many uses though because of the history so I'm hard pressed to see how this isnt racist to say. Unless it means something else in England or there's some other meaning to it there.

1  Works_of_memercy 2017-07-27

I have no clue what you were trying to say tbh.

1  tathrowaway666 2017-07-27

I don't either I was drinking

1  Works_of_memercy 2017-07-27

Lol I suspected that exact response, cheers mate! Drunk redditing is exciting, lol.

1  tathrowaway666 2017-07-27

It's the best, especially on r/drama

1  Kekistanian9000 2017-07-27

System where one race can say words that another can't is logically unsustainable and drama is imminent. Logic is to be defeated because it has no teeth, feelings do.

1  oshnyve 2017-07-27

It might not be logical but then humans aren't. It's the same reason why you can call your mom a bitch but if someone else calls your mom a bitch you have to fight them.

1  do0rkn0b 2017-07-27

You're a faggot but you have a good point.

1  oshnyve 2017-07-27

💦💦💦🙌🙌👌👌👌💦💦😚😚💦💦💦👅👅💦

1  Kekistanian9000 2017-07-27

you have to fight them

No you don't. Especially if you called her bitch yourself.

1  oshnyve 2017-07-27

no you have to fight them

1  futurdrama 2017-07-27

No you don't

You don't, because it's safe to assume anyone called Kekistani9000 has been disowned by their parents years ago, but most people are going to

1  disgruntled_lawyer 2017-07-27

Its worse that you can't even say "niggardly" because it SOUNDS like nigger.

1  neutralvoter 2017-07-27

a bunch of hullabaloo over nothing if you ask me. It's the age of 'words must be policed at all costs.' If you can't navigate that then move bitch, get out da way bitch get out da way. hullaballoons all around lately

1  lifesbrink 2017-07-27

The level of stupidity in all levels of discourse online is making me think everyone needs a nuke to the face. Or at least a boot to the head.

1  Works_of_memercy 2017-07-27

Forever?

1  lifesbrink 2017-07-27

FOREVER!

1  heavenlytoaster 2017-07-27

What a bunch of n*ggers

1  makes_people_cringe 2017-07-27

very n*gative indeed

1  makes_people_cringe 2017-07-27

https://youtu.be/r3ghsO5Avcs

1  _white_lives_matter_ 2017-07-27

"Anti-racists" are fucking imbeciles.

1  Senator_Chickpea 2017-07-27

Thank goddess there exists a "Credit Report"

a.k.a., a "Honky-be-good-stick" to be wielded when recently minted college graduates try to buy a Fiat 500, or get a lease on an apartment a few blocks away from where it's really "multicultural."

1  dis_is_my_account 2017-07-27

She obviously knew what response would come from using the word nigger. "Oh, I wonder why everyone is mad at me? Wait, you're telling me nigger is an offensive word to black people? Who would've thought?:

1  nanonan 2017-07-27

So if for example I were to say "Niggers gonna nig" the most offensive part linguistically would of course be the gross and unsightly contraction of going to into that monstrosity of a word.

1  butterflyandthebee 2017-07-27

I have Language Log in my RSS reader, and I hoped that the responses to Pullum's article would at least be different in tone from the way they normally would be elsewhere. But instead, everyone just went full tumblr with the same condescending moralistic tone, the same ritualistic scolding, and the same flamewars. Christ.

1  grungebot5000 2017-07-27

man my 5th grade teacher talked about the word "nigger" multiple times over the year, it was a little off-putting but everybody handled it fine, it wasn't any worse than learning about the holocaust

and that was only like a couple years ago. how are kids already such pussies now?