Never really got a genuine response from a "conservative" about what they're trying to conserve "socially" (forget the fiscally conservative crap)
A "Progressive" would only want to change stuff he deems harmful. A progressive would still want to conserve ideas that seeks beneficial to society. You could be a progressive and still think he's wrong about certain stuff.
What's with calling yourself a conservative? Is it a numbers frame?
For one, a consistent and healthy family structure which liberals undermine by coddling single mothers and turning them into welfare queens, hence the frankly disgusting statistic of black men who aren't involved in their childrens upbringing. This is exacerbated by benefits that favor the mother if she deliberately does not have the father around, and is largely to blame for the gang situations in Detroit and Chicago, cities historically run by democrats.
You think I'm going to waste my time with a whinny little bitch like you? Hahaha
A complete lack of respect for traditional values is why the current generation (i.e. you) is filled with depressive, nihilistic nobodies wandering through life without any drive or commitment. Enjoy your meaningless existence because you're too afraid to embrace cultural values you fucking waste of space.
Mmmm hmmm. Keep REEEEing buddy. Your delusions and bogey men will die with you. THANK FUCK! Lmao
Hey cunt, if you could stop trying to comment on our politics like you actually know something that'd be great. I know you Brits have a history of sticking your long noses and disgusting teeth into other countries business but try toning it down a bit.
That aside, I am an educated poor person (honours degree and post-grad in education), and though I am still on the left I have far more sympathy with the right-wing than I ever did when I was 16-18. Mainly because the left is currently fucked with identity politics, multiculturalism, and feminism. If bozos on the left actually went 'back to the old school' of helping indigenous working class populations, the likes of Trump and Theresa May might not have gotten so far to begin with!! /rant
Upvoted for engaging. I have to go to bed soon to prepare myself for another day of grinding away for a pittance a pay, a situation where I feel massively personally and culturally let down, not just by the conservative wealthy but also by the left-liberal middle class intelligentsia, but before I go I'll drop some links.
What do you mean "Liberal how"? Where did I use the word 'liberal'?
How does one's world view change that easily?
In what respect? Whatever you're referring to, I don't think it changed 'easily', but I'd need to know specifically what you were referring to to say for sure.
Your history is like all gender shit that shit is crazy
'K. I guess being brought up around a troop of hardcore, often lesbian separatist, feminists (with links to Greenham, as it happens) had a big impression on me. Anyway, I find it interesting, and I think this is an opportune moment in history to do something for future generations. But yes, that shit is crazy, as you say.
Oops I conflated being liberal with "being on the left". I was wondering how multiculturalism and feminism turned you from that. Maybe "on the left side" refers to other stuff?
Leftist is widely used in US politics to refer to socialism and anti-capitalist ideologies, although it is also often mistakenly applied to liberals, which can cause confusion and resentment, since there is a vast difference between the two groups. For anyone who studies politics with rigor, the conflation of "leftist" and "liberal" is truly infuriating...
I was wondering how multiculturalism and feminism turned you from that.
Oof, that's a massive discussion in itself. I think one incident that really had a big impression on me was when I was doing my teacher training, I was told to be aware of the religious calender to take account of religious students (Muslims, essentially) who might be fasting. I was extremely hostile to this concept as I had my early education in a very religious school, with a lot of bible-bashing, which I bitterly resented, and as a result had become staunchly atheist and highly in favour of secularism. On top of that I was keenly aware of the importance of proper nutrition in education having struggled with a moderate eating disorder myself. So being told to allow for religious students' fasting really made me see red and I felt that multiculturalism was getting out of control at that point. Also talking to people on the right informally and seeing that some of their grievances about working for families who had everything provided by the state yet could not speak a word of English actually made me feel there views had some merit. Also along those lines seeing my local county council translating all their material and signage into various Asian language seemed like an inappropriate use of council tax payers' money to me. You move to a country, you learn the language AFAIAC. A while ago I watched a right-wing rally on YouTube where one of the speakers said that the government of a country should primarily be working to help the people of that country, and this is something I agree with entirely and feel the left have totally lost sight of, what with 'white guilt' and nonsense like this. Even though that was done by the Conservative party it is still based on a feminist agenda ("Empowering women and girls around the world").
As far as feminism itself goes I just generally feel that I was 'thrown under the bus' by my feminist upbringing, which was not designed to empower or help me but rather to train me (very different from education) to conform to being a good little feminist male. This was disastrous for my education, personal development, career, and love life AFAIAC. I was basically the target of a lot of propaganda while it was apparently assumed that as a male I would coast through life. I also think no thought was given as to what I would have to offer a woman and it was quite wrongly assumed that so long as I conformed to the model of a good little leftist feminist male that eventually a woman would gift me her love and sex. I honestly think that the creed and mindset of the average feminist is disgustingly thoughtless and callous towards males and this has turned my stomach on numerous occasions. Just fairly recently I mentioned to my mother that I thought it was good that the men's toilets of a pub were in had a baby-changing table. She rather smugly said that of course this was something feminists had campaigned for. I was genuinely taken aback by that statement and asked why they would do that, since these facilities were intended for men? She responded that this was because many women had male partners who they wanted to be able to change the baby!! Obviously zero thought given to 'gender equality' nor the needs of single fathers. This is characteristic of the actual sexism of feminists IMO. If something is good for women they are in favour of it, and vice versa, and we men just expected to meekly go along with this. It's actually a form of chivalry and highly aligned with social conservatism IMO.
Another thing that I will briefly mention that has made me very wary of the modern left is post-modernism and language policing. Since they have this 'subjectivist' (if that's the right word) view of cognition and morality, they of course believe that if you can only control people's language use you can control their behaviour. This is a strongly authoritarian aspect of the modern left and highly in keeping with Orwell's dystopia 1984. See wrongthink etc. And then those on the contemporary left have the nerve to claim that anyone who complains about 'political correctness' shows what a right-winger they are! Apparently unaware of the historical context of the term as a critique of Stalinism, a political regime all liberal-minded and humanitarian people must surely despise.
That's a bit of a 'round the houses' journey, but bear in mind I am in middle age, and we are therefore talking about a political journey that has taken place over three decades. In my youth I was involved with the Socialist Workers Party amongst other far-left organisations, but after the Wall came down I could no longer call myself a Socialist in good conscience. Nonetheless, I still support aspects of socialism and would favour a mixed economy, with essential services such as the postal service and public transport ran by the state for the people, not for profit.
Right Wing Liberal is a liberal whose liberalism is close to the old definition of liberalism. A right wing liberal stands for equality in opportunity and liberty. A left wing liberal in contrast stands for equality in outcomes and COULD be supportive of an oppressive democracy. Both left and right wing liberals are accepting of people of all races, faiths and sexualities. A perfect issue to differentiate a right wing liberal from a left winger would be the issue of private businesses having to serve all of their customers irrespective of their religious beliefs. A left wing liberal would want the businesses run by Catholics to not deny their service in a gay wedding. A right wing liberal too would prefer that, but would rather see the business owners make the right choice rather than the government forcing them to do so by the threat of an expensive penalty. When it comes to America Right Wing liberals also tend to respect the constitution way more than left wing liberals. The right to own a gun of any kind for example.
Right Wing liberals also tend to be more for individuality than collectivism. Right wing liberals acknowledge that people are different and thus their money making ability differs too. Their concept of equality in opportunity as it applies to economics is not denying any person to pursue his business interests in a free market. Left wing liberals on the contrary believe in class warfare and wealth redistribution.
Left wing liberal: There is a gender wage gap, with women making less than men. We need to eliminate it by rewarding women more for same work.
Right wing liberal: That does not sound liberal to me. You get paid proportional to your productivity. If any pay differences exist, it may be because productivity differences exist.
63 comments
1 SnapshillBot 2017-08-16
Cool story, bro
Snapshots:
I am a bot. (Info / Contact)
1 Der_Weisse_Teufel 2017-08-16
u/bratzman
Shame they haven't killed you yet famalam tbqh.
1 wwaalleess 2017-08-16
(((They))) will get him eventually.
1 nljk 2017-08-16
Corbyn supporter surprise surprise
1 NationalDenbt 2017-08-16
Corbyn is just the left wing version of Trump tbqh. Fairly tame platform with an absolutely disproportionate amount of media hits.
1 Raven0520 2017-08-16
That's not fair to Trump, he actually won something.
1 hexane360 2017-08-16
>Trump
>Fairly tame platform
1 Cephaliarch 2017-08-16
"right wingers really should look in the mirror, be introspective, and put thought into what they're voting for"
"yeah i did and i found that i agree with republican policies the most"
"no i meant that you should vote for bernie in 2020"
1 LeFabulousFaggot 2017-08-16
/u/bratzman is just salty because he hasn’t had an original thought in his life, just parrots stupid bullshit
1 ragazzo_soup 2017-08-16
Stupid bullshit about a country he's literally never set foot it in his entire life.
1 Jukk 2017-08-16
1 boyoyoyoyong 2017-08-16
u/bratzman getting political information from r/politics doesn't make you knowledgeable about american politics it just makes you retarded
1 Pistachiothenut 2017-08-16
Objectively retarded, in fact
1 The_DJSeahorse 2017-08-16
Critically retarded, according to my research.
1 bratzman 2017-08-16
ooooooooooh
1 wwyzzerdd 2017-08-16
/u/bratzman I'm with you, all white people should be gassed.
1 TheButtholeOfBravery 2017-08-16
wow rude
1 double-happiness 2017-08-16
http://i.imgur.com/R33CUgL.gif
1 hexane360 2017-08-16
http://i.imgur.com/B4u33qq.gif
1 double-happiness 2017-08-16
Is that what that's from. I might check that out; always looking for decent new comedy...
1 hexane360 2017-08-16
Yeah both those are from S3E12. It's more than decent, but it's also not new...
1 BassKlong 2017-08-16
Nah it should be blacks. At least whites don't glorify dumb shit like "pimping" and street violence.
1 abraham_pimpin 2017-08-16
Fucking mayo get out
1 YiffReich 2017-08-16
Isn't that moron completely factually wrong. Didn't the younger bracket of voters mainly vote for Hilldog? Or am I the confused one?
1 Senator_Chickpea 2017-08-16
"So I called my congressman and he said quote:
I'd like to help you, son, but you're a whiny little scrote."
1 UTAutism 2017-08-16
I'm confused. Are teenagers the real Nazis now?
1 Senator_Chickpea 2017-08-16
No, Donny, these teens are nihilists. There's nothing to be afraid of.
1 haikubot-1911 2017-08-16
No, Donny, these teens
Are nihilists. There's nothing
To be afraid of.
- Senator_Chickpea
I'm a bot made by /u/Eight1911. I detect haiku.
1 dongas420 2017-08-16
Good bot
1 HillaryClinton-Trump 2017-08-16
Thanks for the laughs, /u/bratzman, you're well on you're way to euphoric-neck-beard status.
1 Ed_ButteredToast 2017-08-16
Never really got a genuine response from a "conservative" about what they're trying to conserve "socially" (forget the fiscally conservative crap)
A "Progressive" would only want to change stuff he deems harmful. A progressive would still want to conserve ideas that seeks beneficial to society. You could be a progressive and still think he's wrong about certain stuff.
What's with calling yourself a conservative? Is it a numbers frame?
1 ZeitgeistNow 2017-08-16
For one, a consistent and healthy family structure which liberals undermine by coddling single mothers and turning them into welfare queens, hence the frankly disgusting statistic of black men who aren't involved in their childrens upbringing. This is exacerbated by benefits that favor the mother if she deliberately does not have the father around, and is largely to blame for the gang situations in Detroit and Chicago, cities historically run by democrats.
1 Ed_ButteredToast 2017-08-16
You think I'm going to waste my time with a whinny little bitch like you? Hahaha
Mmmm hmmm. Keep REEEEing buddy. Your delusions and bogey men will die with you. THANK FUCK! Lmao
1 ZeitgeistNow 2017-08-16
Brilliant
1 Ed_ButteredToast 2017-08-16
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/6tu2pu/comment/dlq0nfd?st=J6FJCRI0&sh=17f23a33
Forgot about this? Already? Being that disingenuous? Is that what you want to conserve?
MUH CHRISTIAN TRADITIONAL FAMILY VALUES
Nice try you
WHINNY......
LITTLE......
BITCH
1 ZeitgeistNow 2017-08-16
I never mentioned Christian, that's your own mental illness filling the blanks, I'm Jewish. The argument still stands.
Are you a transplant from SRD? You certainly act like it.
1 Ed_ButteredToast 2017-08-16
Nah mate. I made a claim. You REEEEEEEd. I backed it up with sources and now you're REEEEEEEing again because ❄️❄️❄️
Here you go 🍪
1 ZeitgeistNow 2017-08-16
Emojis aren't a replacement for an argument, my man
1 Ed_ButteredToast 2017-08-16
😂🍆💦👅😩😩🅱🅱🅱🐝🐝🐝🐝🐘🐘🐘👌👈👀
You were saying?
1 Gothmog26 2017-08-16
Just because there is no good doesn't change the fact you need Jesus.
1 Ed_ButteredToast 2017-08-16
You need a proofreader.
1 Teh_Jews 2017-08-16
You need an interpreter if you couldn't figure out what he was saying.
1 Ed_ButteredToast 2017-08-16
"God" would be more appropriate but hey ¯\_(ツ) _/¯
1 ManhattanTransFur 2017-08-16
One Nation
Two Genders
Three Big Guys For You
1 Ed_ButteredToast 2017-08-16
kek <--- this one
kek
kek
kek
1 Swineflew1 2017-08-16
I mean, he isn't wrong.
1 Ed_ButteredToast 2017-08-16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD0x7ho_IYc
This video kinda explain why old fucks tend to think they were better off and the new generation is ruining itself
1 mehforeverybody 2017-08-16
Well amigo, I bring bad news then - generation z americans might actually become as conservative as Reagan's voters.
1 GIANT_BLEEDING_ANUS 2017-08-16
Says who?
1 ManhattanTransFur 2017-08-16
Says the left's giant bleeding anus.
1 Husbeast 2017-08-16
Blussy
1 ZeitgeistNow 2017-08-16
/u/bratzman
Hey cunt, if you could stop trying to comment on our politics like you actually know something that'd be great. I know you Brits have a history of sticking your long noses and disgusting teeth into other countries business but try toning it down a bit.
1 TheButtholeOfBravery 2017-08-16
The solution is South Park centrism tbh famalamshamadam
1 XhotwheelsloverX 2017-08-16
The best part is he's just a smug Brit.
1 double-happiness 2017-08-16
/u/bratzman for a start it's "conservative" with a small 'c'. That's important, especially for Brits, Kiwis, Aussies and Canadians!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-c_conservative
https://whorunsbritain.blogs.lincoln.ac.uk/2014/10/06/big-c-and-small-c-conservatism/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party
That aside, I am an educated poor person (honours degree and post-grad in education), and though I am still on the left I have far more sympathy with the right-wing than I ever did when I was 16-18. Mainly because the left is currently fucked with identity politics, multiculturalism, and feminism. If bozos on the left actually went 'back to the old school' of helping indigenous working class populations, the likes of Trump and Theresa May might not have gotten so far to begin with!! /rant
1 bratzman 2017-08-16
I can sympathise somewhat with that.
1 double-happiness 2017-08-16
Upvoted for engaging. I have to go to bed soon to prepare myself for another day of grinding away for a pittance a pay, a situation where I feel massively personally and culturally let down, not just by the conservative wealthy but also by the left-liberal middle class intelligentsia, but before I go I'll drop some links.
http://archive.is/8MDwT
https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/02/the-boys-at-the-back/?_r=0
http://archive.is/33pnq
https://www.thelocal.se/20100318/25604
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/whos-in-the-know-women-surge-men-sink-in-educations-gender-gap/article1390902/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34667100/poor-white-boys-get-a-worse-start-in-life-says-equality-report
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-31751672
http://archive.is/d8d5D
1 anubgek 2017-08-16
Liberal how? How does one's world view change that easily?
Your history is like all gender shit that shit is crazy
1 double-happiness 2017-08-16
What do you mean "Liberal how"? Where did I use the word 'liberal'?
In what respect? Whatever you're referring to, I don't think it changed 'easily', but I'd need to know specifically what you were referring to to say for sure.
'K. I guess being brought up around a troop of hardcore, often lesbian separatist, feminists (with links to Greenham, as it happens) had a big impression on me. Anyway, I find it interesting, and I think this is an opportune moment in history to do something for future generations. But yes, that shit is crazy, as you say.
1 anubgek 2017-08-16
Oops I conflated being liberal with "being on the left". I was wondering how multiculturalism and feminism turned you from that. Maybe "on the left side" refers to other stuff?
1 double-happiness 2017-08-16
Well IMHO you are skating on very thin ice there, because surely liberalism could just as easily be seen as a right-wing political philosophy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_liberalism
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Right%20Wing%20Liberal
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Political_spectrum
That aside...
Oof, that's a massive discussion in itself. I think one incident that really had a big impression on me was when I was doing my teacher training, I was told to be aware of the religious calender to take account of religious students (Muslims, essentially) who might be fasting. I was extremely hostile to this concept as I had my early education in a very religious school, with a lot of bible-bashing, which I bitterly resented, and as a result had become staunchly atheist and highly in favour of secularism. On top of that I was keenly aware of the importance of proper nutrition in education having struggled with a moderate eating disorder myself. So being told to allow for religious students' fasting really made me see red and I felt that multiculturalism was getting out of control at that point. Also talking to people on the right informally and seeing that some of their grievances about working for families who had everything provided by the state yet could not speak a word of English actually made me feel there views had some merit. Also along those lines seeing my local county council translating all their material and signage into various Asian language seemed like an inappropriate use of council tax payers' money to me. You move to a country, you learn the language AFAIAC. A while ago I watched a right-wing rally on YouTube where one of the speakers said that the government of a country should primarily be working to help the people of that country, and this is something I agree with entirely and feel the left have totally lost sight of, what with 'white guilt' and nonsense like this. Even though that was done by the Conservative party it is still based on a feminist agenda ("Empowering women and girls around the world").
As far as feminism itself goes I just generally feel that I was 'thrown under the bus' by my feminist upbringing, which was not designed to empower or help me but rather to train me (very different from education) to conform to being a good little feminist male. This was disastrous for my education, personal development, career, and love life AFAIAC. I was basically the target of a lot of propaganda while it was apparently assumed that as a male I would coast through life. I also think no thought was given as to what I would have to offer a woman and it was quite wrongly assumed that so long as I conformed to the model of a good little leftist feminist male that eventually a woman would gift me her love and sex. I honestly think that the creed and mindset of the average feminist is disgustingly thoughtless and callous towards males and this has turned my stomach on numerous occasions. Just fairly recently I mentioned to my mother that I thought it was good that the men's toilets of a pub were in had a baby-changing table. She rather smugly said that of course this was something feminists had campaigned for. I was genuinely taken aback by that statement and asked why they would do that, since these facilities were intended for men? She responded that this was because many women had male partners who they wanted to be able to change the baby!! Obviously zero thought given to 'gender equality' nor the needs of single fathers. This is characteristic of the actual sexism of feminists IMO. If something is good for women they are in favour of it, and vice versa, and we men just expected to meekly go along with this. It's actually a form of chivalry and highly aligned with social conservatism IMO.
Another thing that I will briefly mention that has made me very wary of the modern left is post-modernism and language policing. Since they have this 'subjectivist' (if that's the right word) view of cognition and morality, they of course believe that if you can only control people's language use you can control their behaviour. This is a strongly authoritarian aspect of the modern left and highly in keeping with Orwell's dystopia 1984. See wrongthink etc. And then those on the contemporary left have the nerve to claim that anyone who complains about 'political correctness' shows what a right-winger they are! Apparently unaware of the historical context of the term as a critique of Stalinism, a political regime all liberal-minded and humanitarian people must surely despise.
That's a bit of a 'round the houses' journey, but bear in mind I am in middle age, and we are therefore talking about a political journey that has taken place over three decades. In my youth I was involved with the Socialist Workers Party amongst other far-left organisations, but after the Wall came down I could no longer call myself a Socialist in good conscience. Nonetheless, I still support aspects of socialism and would favour a mixed economy, with essential services such as the postal service and public transport ran by the state for the people, not for profit.
1 autourbanbot 2017-08-16
Here's the Urban Dictionary definition of Right Wing Liberal :
Left wing liberal: There is a gender wage gap, with women making less than men. We need to eliminate it by rewarding women more for same work.
Right wing liberal: That does not sound liberal to me. You get paid proportional to your productivity. If any pay differences exist, it may be because productivity differences exist.
about | flag for glitch | Summon: urbanbot, what is something?
1 double-happiness 2017-08-16
http://i.imgur.com/BkqZpwz.gif
1 LedinToke 2017-08-16
Nerd
1 Chanchumaetrius 2017-08-16
/u/Russiangreyman you're a dumb-ass motherfucker