I'm not even sure what your point is. Yeah I'd rather sleep with a dakimakura of my waifu Renge-chan than with some random 3D slut but that doesn't mean I'm desperate, it's the opposite, it implies that I have standards.

Snapshots:

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So how wealthy are you, capitalist fat cat?

Go to bed pedro, ur drunk.

I thought r/science was meant to have good moderation

Moderators... and 1475 more.

Lmao. I guess when you have that many people a few commies or champagne socialists are bound to slip in.

They delete 99% of comments yet leave garbage like this.

Holein5:

Anyone with a hand can flip burgers, not everyone with a hand can manage a company. People's time is equal, but not the work they do during that time.

Lockpick-Handgrenade:

That isnt a sign of inequality though. It just means that two people have made very different life choices.

Um, minimum wage work i.e. flipping burgers is pretty much an inherent part of market-driven inequality: I'm sure the job market isn't simply the product of "individual life" choices but the product determined by the demands of capital.

I could be wrong though and every burger-flipper is this.

/u/Holein5:

Anyone with a hand can flip burgers, not everyone with a hand can manage a company. People's time is equal, but not the work they do during that time.

/u/Lockpick-Handgrenade:

That isnt a sign of inequality though. It just means that two people have made very different life choices.

Um, minimum wage work i.e. flipping burgers is pretty much an inherent part of market-driven inequality: I'm sure the job market isn't simply the product of "individual life" choices but the product determined by the demands of capital.

I could be wrong though and every burger-flipper is this.

you're encouraged to username-ping here, btw. this sub is about participating in the internet drama and if possible bringing it here (rather than using it in a desperate attempt to feel superior to someone, like SRD)

Thank you, it's probably because I usually post to r/tumblrinaction at the same time and err on the side of caution by default.

They chose their job because of the proximity to tendies.

/u/shurugal Value theory of labor doesn’t real, man

Uhm, coherent sentences, please?

If you don’t care enough to have coherent thoughts on market value, I don’t care enough to have coherent sentences

Ahhh, the old "I don't have an actual argument, so I'm just gonna insult you because I don't quite understand your point, but I want to disagree with it" debate tactic.

You must be planning to run for president.

If you are going to attempt to insult me, then you should at least learn how to spell, capitalize, and punctuate.

A bit of reasoning may also help, but if you had that ability, then I suspect that the other three items would not have proved to be beyond your grasp; I never claimed to work at McDonald's.

You are very smart.

Maybe you're all just really dumb.

Like that would stop anyone

Ahhh, the old "I don't have an actual argument, so I'm just gonna insult you because I don't quite understand your point, but I want to disagree with it" debate tactic. You must be planning to run for president.

If you are going to attempt to insult me, then you should at least learn how to spell, capitalize, and punctuate.

A bit of reasoning may also help, but if you had that ability, then I suspect that the other three items would not have proved to be beyond your grasp; I never claimed to work at McDonald's.

I literally just inverted your insult to OP.

The solution is six figure basic income for all.

Look up labor theory of value, then consider everything that is valued more/less than the value of what went into it

Yes yes yes, but all you are saying here is that inequality is inherent in the system, which is kind of the point I was making to the other guy.

Not sure why you felt this way r/drama worthy, the only drama here is what you've injected.

So in an ideal system, a loaf of bread is worth a few hundred gallons of water? A great painting is worth a piece of canvas, some paint, and a few hours that the artist spent

In an ideal system, any work which is important enough to merit a laborer dedicating his full time to it is worth enough pay for that laborer to live how life how he chooses.

Whew lad, that’s a hell of an economic model. Guess we’ll live in unbridled utilitarian state. It’s all the shit of a planned economy without all that pesky “knowing economics” that usually gets in the way

Whew lad, that’s a hell of an economic model.

no "lad", it's not a model, it's a goal.

It’s a bad goal then, my dude

An equal shot for everyone at "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" is a bad goal?

Are you certain I'm the commie bastard?

So you believe there are people who can only work at McDonalds and will only work at McDonalds? That’s a pretty spicy belief, my friendo

Go around and sample a few fast food joints, and me that you can't find any middle-aged, burned out, lower-class laborers, with an expression that reads "this has been my life for far too long, and I'll be stuck here until I die."

If you tell me you've never seen someone who fits that bill, you're either young as hell, or you're a liar.

None of them could possibly advance? Become a manager? Get a different job? Gain a job skill that’d get them a new job?

Man, your view on people and what they can do is pretty abysmal, I suggest you see a therapist and then read an economics book

Not everyone has the skillset to advance to management. As for getting a different job... Hard to accomplish when all you're qualified to do it unskilled labor in a region where all the labor jobs have died up. Accepting new job skills costs money and time, something someone in that position has very little of.

If you genuinely believe that this combination of circumstances is rare (and you aren't just trolling me) then you have lived a very sheltered life.

So your argument is that simply, there is a huge proportion of Americans who can only do unskilled labor? I’m still hearing a huge voice against the capabilities of the American Worker

My "argument", if you wish to call an observation of reality an argument, is that a great deal of people have invested large portions of their lives into unskilled labor, and that the market for unskilled labor is drying up faster than our economy is willing or able to facilitate the transition of those workers to other skillsets.

Not everyone has the skillset to advance to management.

Skills can be learned my dude. It's like the entire purpose of education man.

Because, education is free, right?

College isn't the only source of education man. Dude there are like other things like apprenticeships and other programs. There's nothing wrong with blue collar jobs.

Because you can just walk down the street and find apprenticeships by the dozen.

They would be more if more people were looking. Elitist liberals not looking down on blue collar workers, would help too.

"there would be if there were more people looking"???

Because, a high supply of workers leads to a high demand for jobs?

I'm not going to start an apprenticeship program if no one is looking for it, am I? Also I forgot to mention vocational schools earlier.

I'm not going to start an apprenticeship program if no one is looking for it, am I?

"start an apprenticeship program"? Spoken like someone who has no idea how apprenticeships actually work. You are also not very current on the situation of applicants vs openings if you believe that there is any shortage of applicants.

In the real world, apprenticeships are advertised exactly like any other entry-level job. The only difference between a job with the title of "apprentice" and a job with the title of "machine operator lvl 1" is that the next step for the apprentice is "journeyman".

Also I forgot to mention vocational schools earlier. because, like, those are totally free, and will absolutely pay the bills while you attend them.

Sounds to me like the "elitist liberal" here is the fella who's insisting that these people would have better lives, if only they weren't too lazy to take advantage of all the (non-existent) opportunities they're surrounded by.

"start an apprenticeship program"? Spoken like someone who has no idea how apprenticeships actually work. You are also not very current on the situation of applicants vs openings if you believe that there is any shortage of applicants.

Plenty of places that could have apprenticeships don't because people don't know about them or eschew blue collar work. Lots of people feel that these jobs are bad because they don't need a degree. This isn't just the fault of "liberal elitists" (I was mostly kidding about that). IIRC Reagan pushed the "work smarter not harder" mentality, which I think hurt us in this field.

because, like, those are totally free, and will absolutely pay the bills while you attend them.

There are plenty of scholarships in almost every school, even colleges, for people are poor. I'm not super familiar with vocational schools so I'm sure they could use work, but there are a ton of opportunities for blue collar work in the US, a fair number that don't need an education.

Plenty of places that could have apprenticeships don't because people don't know about them or eschew blue collar work.

I would be prepared to buy the second point, if it weren't for the fact that the ratio of unemployed laborers to job openings varies between 7:1 and 1:1. If people "don't know about" job openings, then it is because the job opening is not properly advertised.

There are plenty of scholarships in almost every school, even colleges, for people are poor.

yes, and if you are lucky, you might be able to get one that completely pays for tuition, so you can go to class all day, and then work all night to feed your family, and pray that you are able to actually learn enough to graduate on less than four hours of sleep.

Sure, it works for some people, but the fact that it works for a non-zero amount of people doesn't mean it's not an absolute shit system, and that we shouldn't be looking for ways to improve it so that people don't have to spend their entire lives throwing away their present for the sake of a "future" that is always just out of reach.

If people "don't know about" job openings, then it is because the job opening is not properly advertised.

I meant that many people don't know that apprenticeships are an option, not that they don't know about existing apprenticeships.

yes, and if you are lucky, you might be able to get one that completely pays for tuition

Tons of people get full ride or close to full ride for financial reasons. There is a ton of assistance for people who need financial help.

and then work all night to feed your family, and pray that you are able to actually learn enough to graduate on less than four hours of sleep.

When you say "feed your family" are you meaning the children of students? If you are, that comes to a sad truth that people shouldn't have kids if they can't support them financially.

If you are, that comes to a sad truth that people shouldn't have kids if they can't support them financially.

which brings us to this country's love-hate relationship with family planning. "choosing" not to have children is not biologically feasible. We are hard-wired to fuck, and without easily available birth control methods, to include the option to abort unwanted pregnancies, we will always face the problem of the welfare baby.

Can you define "live life as he chooses" for me?

Bare minimums to meet that criteria would be sufficient income and ability to save (income sufficiently greater than expenses) so that:

1. One has both time and money to pursue a reasonable range of leisure activities

2. One need not worry about how the bills will get paid if injured or sick

3. One need not worry about how the bills will get paid should it become desirable or necessary to leave the current job and find a new one

4. One can afford the additional expenses of moving associated with item 3.

In short: The time and financial ability to pursue one's own interests after the basics are covered, and the ability to accrue reserves which will enable one to absorb transient periods of non-productiveness due to externalities (injury, illness disaster), as well as the ability to switch jobs, should such a thing become desirable or necessary.

GUyS I m A dE 60 chEEseBUrgErs THis WEek A nd Now i GEt tO G o O n A pRIvaTE jET tO DuBAi

Flipping burger patties isn't all that important dude

then, clearly, we don't need anyone to do it.

At a minimum, of of the previous two statements is wrong.

Of Of? Dw there won't be anybody doing it soon enough.

Rofl, that's what I get for replying from my phone.

I looked it up and all I saw was a bunch of stuff about a failed state that disappeared in 1991.

Value is subjective. Just because I toil for long hours doesn't make my labour any more valuable. What is a more valuable, assembling hamburgers for 1 hoir or performing surgery for 1 hour?

Not to mention McDonalds' burger are cheap and tastes like plastic. No wonder they have dollar menu.

depends if you're any good at surgery or not

Do you think learning to be a surgeon and learning to flip burgers takes the same amount of invested effort?

If not, is it possible that there might be a connection between things being super easy to accomplish and value?

/u/shurugal

The minimum wage is 7.25. 80 hours a week (40 hours of overtime federally mandated) means you earn 37,770 dollars a year.

Minimum wage work puts you at 6,600 dollars a year higher than the median per capita income in the US. Not buying that anyone in the US who doesn't have a heroin addiction or 19 kids is broke off an 80 hour work week.

char point[] = "missed completely";

Ahhh, the old "I don't have an actual argument, so I'm just gonna insult you because I don't quite understand your point, but I want to disagree with it" debate tactic.

You must be planning to run for president.

I know you are, but what am I?

My grandmother died in a house fire. I really wish you hadn't said "char point." :(

It's supposed to be char[] point, anyway. Dude tried to be sophisticated but can't write basic code.

Does any minimum-wage worker put in 80 hours a week, though? The people I know who work such jobs sometimes have trouble getting enough hours to qualify as full-time employees, much less hit 80, or even 40 hours.

Also, 80 hours of work is crushing. Even investment bankers, who warn many times more than the minimum wage, generally burn out after a very short time and move to different careers in finance, and they have an insane earning incentive driving them to put in the time.

I owned a business for 7 years it would have been nice to only work 80 hours a week.

As someone who is thinking about going down that road, any advice?

No man, total crapshoot

Does any minimum-wage worker put in 80 hours a week, though?

I highly doubt it. But that's taking the worst case scenario.

Depends on where you live.

Who the fuck works 80 hours a week? People in charge sure as fuck don't, unless they are workaholics, and neither 9 to 5ers. But don't Americans work some of the longest hours in the world? That's not a good thing.

Also, you don't have to be a commie to see the economic value in giving the majority of the population a disposable income.

Look at places like South Africa - no one pays anyone shit, and no one can buy shit. And the economy suffers.

In the US, the average annual hours actually worked per worker is 13th out of 35 countries surveyed and only 20 hrs a year more than the OECD average. Americans do work more hours than some of their European counterparts, but overall are fairly average for modern industrial first world countries.

Thanks for the info!

Who the fuck works 80 hours a week? People in charge sure as fuck don't

Wrong.

Fuck the bankers. We need 15$ Minimum Wage. That is all.

Nice try draco

We need 15 maximum BMI.