Not a real theory in politics, but instead an observation that extremists tend to be extreme.
You see no actual ideological overlap at the edges, but you do see a high degree of tactical agreement on things like murdering people who disagree with you. Thing is, you find that among extremists of even centrist ideologies. A whole lot of death squads got started by so-called 'Radical Centrist' neoliberals in the South America, for instance.
It's less a 'the left and right are crazy at the extremes', and more 'Anyone who believes in something too fervently is likely crazy'.
That’s because the pernicious social dynamics of these online spaces hammer home the idea that anyone who disagrees with you on any controversial subject, even a little bit, is incorrigibly dumb or evil or suspect.
No matter what side they're on, Jews get hate. It's why we've learned never to trust you goyim under any circumstances. Either you're of the chosen people of Israel, or go fuck your mother.
Did you know that Palestinians weren’t a people until 1967? Sounds crazy but it’s true! Now some say they appeared out of thin air but that’s an obvious lie. They were molded from clay and came to life when “Chai” was written across their foreheads.
Hitler was never elected bud he was levered into power by desperate conservatives that thought they could control him and use him to dismantle the left.
The most controversial thing he said was around the 5 minute mark when he claims “classical” (whatever the fuck that means) Islamdom had no equivalent to Christiandom’s inquisitions or wars of religion. Muhammad on matzah, that man needs to actually read a book about Islam.
Pinker: Here are uncontroversial and true statements in the real world, why they radicalize people who don't get exposed to them in a reasonable way, and strong counterarguments.
It's particularly funny that the skeptic community doesn't realize that this is history repeating itself. Something like 20 years ago, Fox ran an hour long "documentary" on Apollo Hoax claims. It was hosted by that guy from Star Trek. Anyway, like most people, I was aware that there this conspiracy theory existed, but the only exposure I'd ever had to it was, "lol some people think Apollo was a hoax, how retarded they are! lol!!"
So then Fox airs this documentary, and it puts forth the hoax claims. I had never heard any of them before, and I had no response to any of them.
The skeptic community owes its very existence in part to the reaction to that documentary. A lot of people - seriously, a lot - became apollo conspiracy nuts because of it. It took a while (like years) for the other side to organize and start addressing the claims. The "bad astronomy" guy got his start in the aftermath - he got into the skeptic community by debating conspiracy theorists about apollo.
It's exactly the same phenomenon that Pinker is describing: people have never been confronted by an idea except in a "safe space" where they ridicule it instead of addressing it. What this results in are people who are susceptible to being convinced by the idea the first time they hear it fully articulated. 20 years ago, there was a surge in apollo hoax believers because Fox articulated the conspiracy theories, and viewers weren't able to counter them. Today, the same thing happens when the alt right gets a meme out there.
The end result is that now we have a lot of moon landing deniers, plus a lot of 'skeptics' patting each other on the back for how smart they supposedly are for knowing that planets are round. Exposure to bad ideas doesn't help commoners at all. The masses aren't able to counter alt-right memes because they are too unsophisticated to have political beliefs that go beyond the most recent meme they've been exposed to, and there is no hypothetical anti-alt-right skeptics movement that is going to change that.
there is no hypothetical anti-alt-right skeptics movement that is going to change that.
If a patient and calm group of people were to form to counter the alt-right, I have no doubts they would have an effect. Far as I know, there's nothing like that, only groups of people who shout "Nazi" at everyone who doesn't think that toxic masculinity in bullriding is a problem that requires a congressional hearing.
Plenty of these people exist. You just don't know about them because poors won't pay attention to anyone who isn't hooting and hollering like a Jerry Springer audience.
Wheres the Richard Dawkins/Michael Shermer/Sam Harris/Dan Dennett of the anti alt-right? Near as I can tell the only one I know of is the article's subject, the Jew with the Jew fro who now I'm told hates Jews.
It's good to know that he's learned absolutely nothing over time. I'd probably be a feminist today if his website wasn't full-on "it's not our job to educate you." I'm sure the same strategy will work just as well with the alt right.
knock on fucking wood. that guy is one of the most insufferable fucks on the face of this earth, right up there next to Wil Wheaton and that guy who comes over for a big party and jacks off in the bathroom with the door unlocked
Pinker's right, but he doesn't go far enough. The problem with echo chambers and shibboleth culture in the liberal establishment isn't just that it's a bad strategy for dealing with people outside the tribe, it's that it breeds lazy, weak thinking within the tribe. The mind needs to be exercised and strengthened just like any other muscle, and debate and argument can reveal flaws and fallacies within even well-established positions and stances. When you socially coerce your people not to argue and debate within the party line, you remove the ability to stop bad ideas and erroneous conclusions from spreading and taking root, and that just makes it even harder to convince people in the middle to take your side.
TFW American political culture is turning me into a cybernetic futurist. Humans can't be trusted with feelings.
There is no arguing with American conservatives, they're literally some of the most retarded people on the planet.
Maybe not retarded - but willfully ignorant. We're talking about a demographic that straight up thinks science is a liberal conspiracy, experts are always wrong, and their opinions are on equal footing with empirical research.
And everything you just listed here exists on the right, on an even greater level.
Here's the thing about those "bad ideas" and why they're hard to stop, even with reasoned debate. Because the bad ideas these people express appeal to people on a primal level, and the people they appeal to make up a majority of the country.
Do you think a white nationalist is a white nationalist because he cares what the facts say?
Come on, Pizza, you're smarter than this. By criticizing liberal culture, I am In no way implying that American conservatism is somehow more rational or virtuous than liberalism is - far from it. But, speaking as a leftist, if left-of-center politics is going to have a future in this country, we've have got to be able to make a case to people who don't already agree with us, and the discursive trend in left-liberal culture - the unwillingness to engage with opponents as equals, the instinct to see any disagreement as evidence of maliciousness or bad faith, the inability to consider people as individuals rather than as a collection of identity brackets - all this is hamstringing our ability to organize and articulate a counterargument to the reactionary mess on the right. It's never been more crucial for liberals to have their shit together, but their shit is falling apart.
EDIT: Just to be clear, I don't have any good ideas for how to fix any of this. I'd like to believe that the left can save liberalism by reorienting it around material issues like inequality and social programs, but left-wing activists seem to think that they need to be even more obnoxiously obsessed with name-calling and circlejerking than liberals. It's high-school level pettiness and it makes it difficult for me to take anybody seriously, frankly, even when they're technically my allies.
It is not merely the changing of a subject... it’s essentially a reversal of accusation, arguing that an opponent is guilty of an offense just as egregious or worse than what the original party was accused of doing, however unconnected the offenses may be.
What you did was saying "The Right was worse" when someone is criticizing the Left of its echo chamber problems.
Of course we know the Right has echo chamber problems. We've been brought up knowing how dumb and how anti-intellectual they are for the past 10 years at least.
Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument,[1][2][3] which is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.[4][5][6] When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world.[7][8][9]
Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda. When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world.
The term "whataboutery" has been used in Britain and Ireland since the period of the Troubles (conflict) in Northern Ireland. Lexicographers date the first appearance of the variant whataboutism to the 1990s, while other historians state that during the Cold War Western officials referred to the Soviet propaganda strategy by that term.
Whataboutism... is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument
That is on the page you linked.
Yet you never really see anyone talk about how the "right-wing echo chamber" lost them elections.
I thought the media blasted that idea during the Obama Administration. You know, how White men are a dying breed. How they are only preaching to their own, and cannot reach out beyond to the diverse world of Blacks and Browns. I got so sick of hearing it for 8 years and even during the election season, that Dems would just make up the lost White vote with non-White votes.
Yes, and nothing I said falls under that definition.
I thought the media blasted that idea during the Obama Administration. You know, how White men are a dying breed. How they are only preaching to their own, and cannot reach out beyond to the diverse world of Blacks and Browns. I got so sick of hearing it for 8 years and even during the election season, that Dems would just make up the lost White vote with non-White votes.
And here's my point - the right is the biggest echo chamber in the country. The GOP is far less diverse than the DNC is. This alone is why the left will NEVER be as big an echo chamber as the right, not even close.
There's far less ideological purity on the left than on the right. At some point those angry white guys will be erased, you can only coast on racial anxiety for so long.
Yes, and nothing I said falls under that definition.
What you have been doing in this thread is to pop up screeching at them when they criticize the left for being dumb by saying the right is dumber. I think that fits the definition in the page you've linked pretty well.
The problem with echo chambers and shibboleth culture in the liberal establishment
Doesn't look like the person is saying only the Left does it. This is his clarification of your comment:
By criticizing liberal culture, I am In no way implying that American conservatism is somehow more rational or virtuous than liberalism is - far from it.
I didn't say your argument is invalid, it just sounds stupid.
Not surprised - Steven Pinker is both brilliant and not afraid to buck whatever people want to claim are "accepted norms" when putting forth his theories. Which of course, totally makes him a Nazi these days.
90 comments
1 SnapshillBot 2018-01-12
The people involved here probably don't even respect bussy all that much.
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1 jackthebutholeripper 2018-01-12
NYT does what the daily stormer did there on a near daily basis.
1 incineratechicken 2018-01-12
))))Horseshoe Theory((((
1 jackthebutholeripper 2018-01-12
idk what that means
1 TherapyFortheRapy 2018-01-12
Not a real theory in politics, but instead an observation that extremists tend to be extreme.
You see no actual ideological overlap at the edges, but you do see a high degree of tactical agreement on things like murdering people who disagree with you. Thing is, you find that among extremists of even centrist ideologies. A whole lot of death squads got started by so-called 'Radical Centrist' neoliberals in the South America, for instance.
It's less a 'the left and right are crazy at the extremes', and more 'Anyone who believes in something too fervently is likely crazy'.
1 cultish_alibi 2018-01-12
tl;dr: Angry mobs are so retarded it's hard to tell what side they're on.
1 SlavophilesAnonymous 2018-01-12
NEOLIBERAL DEATH SQUADS
1 ironicshitpostr 2018-01-12
Day of the Horseshoe when
1 jackthebutholeripper 2018-01-12
What about nihlists. lebowski?
1 SperglockHolmes 2018-01-12
If you are reading this you are alt-right.
1 komradekommunism 2018-01-12
Well I’m a radical centrist so fuck you
1 SperglockHolmes 2018-01-12
Found the alt-righter.
1 CultOfCuck 2018-01-12
Literally (((Hitler)))
1 komradekommunism 2018-01-12
I serious pist on r/politics are you sure about that?
1 broden 2018-01-12
Stopped reading there
1 komradekommunism 2018-01-12
Well that’s good because you appear to have quoted my whole reply.
1 broden 2018-01-12
Yeah I figured I would hear what you had to say
1 geraldodelrivero 2018-01-12
please keep yourself safe immediately
1 komradekommunism 2018-01-12
You first bb.
1 fsdgfhk 2018-01-12
this but unironically.
1 ironicshitpostr 2018-01-12
Of course Jesse "I hate the trans, I call them mans" would try to cover for one of his fellow TERF Neo-Nazi friends
1 westofthetracks 2018-01-12
accurate
1 SocialistEphebophile 2018-01-12
(((MAGA!)))
1 whenweriiide 2018-01-12
Fuck this is depressing
1 zenicaone 2018-01-12
Hitler was Right
1 CarnistHappyCamp 2018-01-12
but a vegetarian, so fuck him
1 zenicaone 2018-01-12
he kept it on a down low, so still good.
1 pitterpatterwater 2018-01-12
Seriously, m8. Not only is the evil Jew's skin white, but so is his hair.
1 broden 2018-01-12
lurk more
1 wwyzzerdd 2018-01-12
Shit... they're onto us, boys!
1 RichEvansSextape 2018-01-12
I disagree. Peak /r/drama is realizing that even if you agree with another user, you're both still retards.
1 wwyzzerdd 2018-01-12
INCORRIGIBLE!
1 cartdrow 2018-01-12
Now there's a dog whistle. California secession when?
1 TherapyFortheRapy 2018-01-12
The best part of California secession? When American gets to invade and reconquer their retarded asses.
1 OnlyRacistOnReddit 2018-01-12
I'd sign up for that.
1 ironicshitpostr 2018-01-12
There is nothing about this idea I don't like.
1 cheers_grills 2018-01-12
You end up with California being a part of your country.
1 IcedMapleLeaf 2018-01-12
Set up a puppet state and rule via proxy.
Just to spite, build a wall, a nice big wall.
1 cheers_grills 2018-01-12
Make it circle around the state, then pour the water.
1 ZeitgeistNow 2018-01-12
No matter what side they're on, Jews get hate. It's why we've learned never to trust you goyim under any circumstances. Either you're of the chosen people of Israel, or go fuck your mother.
1 ChateauJack 2018-01-12
This, but unironically.
1 jackthebutholeripper 2018-01-12
oy vey
1 cimarafa 2018-01-12
r/drama is like our internet israel.
SRDines are the Arabs
MDEtards are the migrants who manage to sneak over Bibi’s Egyptian border fence
1 TherapyFortheRapy 2018-01-12
And Hodor is that guy who starts talking about how Palestinians aren't real and Arabs are all descended from dog-people the moment he's had a few.
1 HodorTheDoorHolder 2018-01-12
Did you know that Palestinians weren’t a people until 1967? Sounds crazy but it’s true! Now some say they appeared out of thin air but that’s an obvious lie. They were molded from clay and came to life when “Chai” was written across their foreheads.
1 ConsoleWarCriminal 2018-01-12
I'm 100% Ethiopian Jewish, bigot!
1 error404brain 2018-01-12
We elect Hitler just once and somehow we are the bad guys.
1 pizzashill 2018-01-12
Hitler was never elected bud he was levered into power by desperate conservatives that thought they could control him and use him to dismantle the left.
1 error404brain 2018-01-12
He was elected after getting in power tho. He was put there by the conservatives, sure but he still got elected afterward.
1 pizzashill 2018-01-12
Yeah, he was elected in a rigged election, not an actual election.
Nazi support was already in freefall by time he got put into power and they knew it. They knew they couldn't win an election.
1 error404brain 2018-01-12
Fair enough.
1 DudeCat 2018-01-12
Don't let the goyim in on the secrets you putz. What happens in ZOG stays in ZOG.
1 zenicaone 2018-01-12
yes for totally no reason at all - I mean oyy veyy - am I right guys.
1 RichEvansSextape 2018-01-12
Even the Jews are out to get the Jews.
1 556x44 2018-01-12
VIP, very important post
ass
1 takaci 2018-01-12
This is why I'm a centrist. Everyone else is too clouded by hate and fear to actually function as a human
1 Stuntman119 2018-01-12
this
1 imstartingtogetangry 2018-01-12
If you're not clouded by fear and hate, how can you even call yourself human?
1 fsdgfhk 2018-01-12
This is lecture they reference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTiRnbNT5uE
Pinker is 100% right.
1 subpoutine 2018-01-12
The most controversial thing he said was around the 5 minute mark when he claims “classical” (whatever the fuck that means) Islamdom had no equivalent to Christiandom’s inquisitions or wars of religion. Muhammad on matzah, that man needs to actually read a book about Islam.
1 nithingpole 2018-01-12
Pinker: Here are uncontroversial and true statements in the real world, why they radicalize people who don't get exposed to them in a reasonable way, and strong counterarguments.
PZ Myers, leftist Twitter: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
1 nicethingyoucanthave 2018-01-12
It's particularly funny that the skeptic community doesn't realize that this is history repeating itself. Something like 20 years ago, Fox ran an hour long "documentary" on Apollo Hoax claims. It was hosted by that guy from Star Trek. Anyway, like most people, I was aware that there this conspiracy theory existed, but the only exposure I'd ever had to it was, "lol some people think Apollo was a hoax, how retarded they are! lol!!"
So then Fox airs this documentary, and it puts forth the hoax claims. I had never heard any of them before, and I had no response to any of them.
The skeptic community owes its very existence in part to the reaction to that documentary. A lot of people - seriously, a lot - became apollo conspiracy nuts because of it. It took a while (like years) for the other side to organize and start addressing the claims. The "bad astronomy" guy got his start in the aftermath - he got into the skeptic community by debating conspiracy theorists about apollo.
It's exactly the same phenomenon that Pinker is describing: people have never been confronted by an idea except in a "safe space" where they ridicule it instead of addressing it. What this results in are people who are susceptible to being convinced by the idea the first time they hear it fully articulated. 20 years ago, there was a surge in apollo hoax believers because Fox articulated the conspiracy theories, and viewers weren't able to counter them. Today, the same thing happens when the alt right gets a meme out there.
1 UmmahSultan 2018-01-12
The end result is that now we have a lot of moon landing deniers, plus a lot of 'skeptics' patting each other on the back for how smart they supposedly are for knowing that planets are round. Exposure to bad ideas doesn't help commoners at all. The masses aren't able to counter alt-right memes because they are too unsophisticated to have political beliefs that go beyond the most recent meme they've been exposed to, and there is no hypothetical anti-alt-right skeptics movement that is going to change that.
1 jaredschaffer27 2018-01-12
If a patient and calm group of people were to form to counter the alt-right, I have no doubts they would have an effect. Far as I know, there's nothing like that, only groups of people who shout "Nazi" at everyone who doesn't think that toxic masculinity in bullriding is a problem that requires a congressional hearing.
1 UmmahSultan 2018-01-12
Plenty of these people exist. You just don't know about them because poors won't pay attention to anyone who isn't hooting and hollering like a Jerry Springer audience.
1 jaredschaffer27 2018-01-12
Wheres the Richard Dawkins/Michael Shermer/Sam Harris/Dan Dennett of the anti alt-right? Near as I can tell the only one I know of is the article's subject, the Jew with the Jew fro who now I'm told hates Jews.
1 TSwizzlesNipples 2018-01-12
Well that's a name I haven't heard in a while...
1 JohnTheOrc 2018-01-12
It's good to know that he's learned absolutely nothing over time. I'd probably be a feminist today if his website wasn't full-on "it's not our job to educate you." I'm sure the same strategy will work just as well with the alt right.
1 CarnistHappyCamp 2018-01-12
knock on fucking wood. that guy is one of the most insufferable fucks on the face of this earth, right up there next to Wil Wheaton and that guy who comes over for a big party and jacks off in the bathroom with the door unlocked
1 TSwizzlesNipples 2018-01-12
Why'd you mention /u/wil twice?
1 CarnistHappyCamp 2018-01-12
at least i didn't ping him, since i figured his tender soy bones wouldn't stand up to the bantz
1 disgruntled_chode 2018-01-12
Pinker's right, but he doesn't go far enough. The problem with echo chambers and shibboleth culture in the liberal establishment isn't just that it's a bad strategy for dealing with people outside the tribe, it's that it breeds lazy, weak thinking within the tribe. The mind needs to be exercised and strengthened just like any other muscle, and debate and argument can reveal flaws and fallacies within even well-established positions and stances. When you socially coerce your people not to argue and debate within the party line, you remove the ability to stop bad ideas and erroneous conclusions from spreading and taking root, and that just makes it even harder to convince people in the middle to take your side.
TFW American political culture is turning me into a cybernetic futurist. Humans can't be trusted with feelings.
1 pizzashill 2018-01-12
Bro, stop trying to spin this on "the left."
There is no arguing with American conservatives, they're literally some of the most retarded people on the planet.
Maybe not retarded - but willfully ignorant. We're talking about a demographic that straight up thinks science is a liberal conspiracy, experts are always wrong, and their opinions are on equal footing with empirical research.
And everything you just listed here exists on the right, on an even greater level.
Here's the thing about those "bad ideas" and why they're hard to stop, even with reasoned debate. Because the bad ideas these people express appeal to people on a primal level, and the people they appeal to make up a majority of the country.
Do you think a white nationalist is a white nationalist because he cares what the facts say?
1 disgruntled_chode 2018-01-12
Come on, Pizza, you're smarter than this. By criticizing liberal culture, I am In no way implying that American conservatism is somehow more rational or virtuous than liberalism is - far from it. But, speaking as a leftist, if left-of-center politics is going to have a future in this country, we've have got to be able to make a case to people who don't already agree with us, and the discursive trend in left-liberal culture - the unwillingness to engage with opponents as equals, the instinct to see any disagreement as evidence of maliciousness or bad faith, the inability to consider people as individuals rather than as a collection of identity brackets - all this is hamstringing our ability to organize and articulate a counterargument to the reactionary mess on the right. It's never been more crucial for liberals to have their shit together, but their shit is falling apart.
EDIT: Just to be clear, I don't have any good ideas for how to fix any of this. I'd like to believe that the left can save liberalism by reorienting it around material issues like inequality and social programs, but left-wing activists seem to think that they need to be even more obnoxiously obsessed with name-calling and circlejerking than liberals. It's high-school level pettiness and it makes it difficult for me to take anybody seriously, frankly, even when they're technically my allies.
1 Pepperglue 2018-01-12
Nice whataboutism.
1 pizzashill 2018-01-12
Do you even know what the word whataboutism means or is it just a buzzterm you throw out because you have the intellectual capacity of a child?
Because I've got news for you retard, nothing in that comment could possibly meet the definition of "whataboutism."
And to prove that you don't know whataboutism is, I'll ask this:
In your own words, explain the difference between fallacious and non-fallacious "whataboutism."
1 Pepperglue 2018-01-12
Oh noes! I've been had.
Bring up statistic of Black-on-Black crime when someone else is talking about Police brutality.
Calling out that Christianity has done something worse when we discuss Muslim terrorism.
1 pizzashill 2018-01-12
Absolutely false.
That'd be fallacious whataboutism, actually.
1 Pepperglue 2018-01-12
Not the whataboutism I've heard
What you did was saying "The Right was worse" when someone is criticizing the Left of its echo chamber problems.
Of course we know the Right has echo chamber problems. We've been brought up knowing how dumb and how anti-intellectual they are for the past 10 years at least.
1 pizzashill 2018-01-12
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
The term comes from soviet tactics dude.
1 WikiTextBot 2018-01-12
Whataboutism
Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda. When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world.
The term "whataboutery" has been used in Britain and Ireland since the period of the Troubles (conflict) in Northern Ireland. Lexicographers date the first appearance of the variant whataboutism to the 1990s, while other historians state that during the Cold War Western officials referred to the Soviet propaganda strategy by that term.
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1 Pepperglue 2018-01-12
That is on the page you linked.
I thought the media blasted that idea during the Obama Administration. You know, how White men are a dying breed. How they are only preaching to their own, and cannot reach out beyond to the diverse world of Blacks and Browns. I got so sick of hearing it for 8 years and even during the election season, that Dems would just make up the lost White vote with non-White votes.
1 pizzashill 2018-01-12
Yes, and nothing I said falls under that definition.
And here's my point - the right is the biggest echo chamber in the country. The GOP is far less diverse than the DNC is. This alone is why the left will NEVER be as big an echo chamber as the right, not even close.
There's far less ideological purity on the left than on the right. At some point those angry white guys will be erased, you can only coast on racial anxiety for so long.
1 Pepperglue 2018-01-12
What you have been doing in this thread is to pop up screeching at them when they criticize the left for being dumb by saying the right is dumber. I think that fits the definition in the page you've linked pretty well.
1 pizzashill 2018-01-12
It doesn't. The person I responded to was very clearly implying this was mainly a "left-wing problem."
1 Pepperglue 2018-01-12
Doesn't look like the person is saying only the Left does it. This is his clarification of your comment:
I didn't say your argument is invalid, it just sounds stupid.
1 EzraKleinVox 2018-01-12
Hence transgenderism
1 heavenlytoaster 2018-01-12
(((Jewish)))
(The echos mean white now)
1 VidiotGamer 2018-01-12
Not surprised - Steven Pinker is both brilliant and not afraid to buck whatever people want to claim are "accepted norms" when putting forth his theories. Which of course, totally makes him a Nazi these days.
1 The_DJSeahorse 2018-01-12
Breaking news: liberal pearl clutches are freaking retards. More at 11.
1 pizzashill 2018-01-12
Did you even read the article in which the right-tards ran around claiming this guy endorsed them and said they were right?