All white people are racist and, far from absolving them, this places an urgent burden on each and all. Anyone who thinks this statement is wrong, or that it needs further qualification that could weaken our understanding of it, or that it makes “racism” a powerless word: find some place else to debate it. If your first reaction is ever to deny an accusation of racism rather than listen and learn, this is the wrong sub.
We’ve had a strong public understanding of how bias affects us all at least as far back as “The Doll Test” made famous in Brown v. Board of Education. Decades of research since have developed our knowledge in this field. Implicit bias tests are a well-known modern example, and the body of research is far stronger than what trickles into pop culture.
It would also be true to say “all people are biased.” True in the same way that “all people are dying” would be a true reply to an LGBT activist in the 80s who dared to say “HIV/AIDS patients are dying.” Truly a distraction from a more urgent issue that deserves separate consideration. We all absorb society’s toxic programming, but the US sheriff running self-described concentration camps and the US president pardoning him for related charges are not people of color who failed the doll test in Brown. In a discussion about white racism, raising the “everyone does it” flag is misleading at best, almost always derailing, and weakens the critical efforts of anti-racism.
Decent white people (the ones we’ll worry about for now) make varying efforts to end racism and never wanted to benefit from their privilege. Some think it is unfair or devalues the word’s meaning to call them “racist.” It’s true that there’s an important difference between that kind of person and a Trump supporter or other Nazis. We won’t end racism, though, if we fail to acknowledge its more “decent” formulations. Otherwise decent people who shy away from this label lose out on its insights and its demands.
Just what are decent white people to do then? Acknowledging one’s own racism isn’t about shame or self-flagellation, responses that unduly elevate white people and their experiences. White people will have to get in line and follow the march for racial equality, because the question isn’t answered, the solution isn’t here yet.
Even the most altruistic white advocate for racial justice or any cause stops advocating somewhere. There’s no easy answer for how much of ourselves to give to our causes, but for white people this is a cause that they give to, while for minorities it is a life that they experience. White people go home, eat, sleep, look after their own well being in ways no one could fault them, yet even so that is a (very reasonable) decision to prioritize their needs, in this case, over the needs of people of color. That’s not wrong. It’s also not a choice anyone else can make. Black skin can’t be shrugged off while more mundane needs are attended. White racism is not over until people no longer have to make a daily decision to put racial justice down and prioritize something else, promising to come back to it later.
In light of the above, a summary of our community standards might be:
Do not debate or undermine the existence or urgency of white racism.
Debate as appropriate what solutions should look like. But no self-pity about how white racism is a challenge for otherwise decent white folk.
All white people are racist and, far from absolving them, this places an urgent burden on each and all. Anyone who thinks this statement is wrong, or that it needs further qualification that could weaken our understanding of it, or that it makes “racism” a powerless word: find some place else to debate it. If your first reaction is ever to deny an accusation of racism rather than listen and learn, this is the wrong sub.
We’ve had a strong public understanding of how bias affects us all at least as far back as “The Doll Test” made famous in Brown v. Board of Education. Decades of research since have developed our knowledge in this field. Implicit bias tests are a well-known modern example, and the body of research is far stronger than what trickles into pop culture.
It would also be true to say “all people are biased.” True in the same way that “all people are dying” would be a true reply to an LGBT activist in the 80s who dared to say “HIV/AIDS patients are dying.” Truly a distraction from a more urgent issue that deserves separate consideration. We all absorb society’s toxic programming, but the US sheriff running self-described concentration camps and the US president pardoning him for related charges are not people of color who failed the doll test in Brown. In a discussion about white racism, raising the “everyone does it” flag is misleading at best, almost always derailing, and weakens the critical efforts of anti-racism.
Decent white people (the ones we’ll worry about for now) make varying efforts to end racism and never wanted to benefit from their privilege. Some think it is unfair or devalues the word’s meaning to call them “racist.” It’s true that there’s an important difference between that kind of person and a Trump supporter or other Nazis. We won’t end racism, though, if we fail to acknowledge its more “decent” formulations. Otherwise decent people who shy away from this label lose out on its insights and its demands.
Just what are decent white people to do then? Acknowledging one’s own racism isn’t about shame or self-flagellation, responses that unduly elevate white people and their experiences. White people will have to get in line and follow the march for racial equality, because the question isn’t answered, the solution isn’t here yet.
Even the most altruistic white advocate for racial justice or any cause stops advocating somewhere. There’s no easy answer for how much of ourselves to give to our causes, but for white people this is a cause that they give to, while for minorities it is a life that they experience. White people go home, eat, sleep, look after their own well being in ways no one could fault them, yet even so that is a (very reasonable) decision to prioritize their needs, in this case, over the needs of people of color. That’s not wrong. It’s also not a choice anyone else can make. Black skin can’t be shrugged off while more mundane needs are attended. White racism is not over until people no longer have to make a daily decision to put racial justice down and prioritize something else, promising to come back to it later.
In light of the above, a summary of our community standards might be:
Do not debate or undermine the existence or urgency of white racism.
Debate as appropriate what solutions should look like. But no self-pity about how white racism is a challenge for otherwise decent white folk.
There was a time where it was pretty hard to escape discussions of gamer gate if you followed video game websites/forums. That time was ...I wanna say 3 or 4 years ago. Anyone who thinks they need to be in the #gamergateResistance is wasting their time.
All white people are racist and, far from absolving them, this places an urgent burden on each and all. Anyone who thinks this statement is wrong, or that it needs further qualification that could weaken our understanding of it, or that it makes “racism” a powerless word: find some place else to debate it. If your first reaction is ever to deny an accusation of racism rather than listen and learn, this is the wrong sub.
We’ve had a strong public understanding of how bias affects us all at least as far back as “The Doll Test” made famous in Brown v. Board of Education. Decades of research since have developed our knowledge in this field. Implicit bias tests are a well-known modern example, and the body of research is far stronger than what trickles into pop culture.
It would also be true to say “all people are biased.” True in the same way that “all people are dying” would be a true reply to an LGBT activist in the 80s who dared to say “HIV/AIDS patients are dying.” Truly a distraction from a more urgent issue that deserves separate consideration. We all absorb society’s toxic programming, but the US sheriff running self-described concentration camps and the US president pardoning him for related charges are not people of color who failed the doll test in Brown. In a discussion about white racism, raising the “everyone does it” flag is misleading at best, almost always derailing, and weakens the critical efforts of anti-racism.
Decent white people (the ones we’ll worry about for now) make varying efforts to end racism and never wanted to benefit from their privilege. Some think it is unfair or devalues the word’s meaning to call them “racist.” It’s true that there’s an important difference between that kind of person and a Trump supporter or other Nazis. We won’t end racism, though, if we fail to acknowledge its more “decent” formulations. Otherwise decent people who shy away from this label lose out on its insights and its demands.
Just what are decent white people to do then? Acknowledging one’s own racism isn’t about shame or self-flagellation, responses that unduly elevate white people and their experiences. White people will have to get in line and follow the march for racial equality, because the question isn’t answered, the solution isn’t here yet.
Even the most altruistic white advocate for racial justice or any cause stops advocating somewhere. There’s no easy answer for how much of ourselves to give to our causes, but for white people this is a cause that they give to, while for minorities it is a life that they experience. White people go home, eat, sleep, look after their own well being in ways no one could fault them, yet even so that is a (very reasonable) decision to prioritize their needs, in this case, over the needs of people of color. That’s not wrong. It’s also not a choice anyone else can make. Black skin can’t be shrugged off while more mundane needs are attended. White racism is not over until people no longer have to make a daily decision to put racial justice down and prioritize something else, promising to come back to it later.
In light of the above, a summary of our community standards might be:
Do not debate or undermine the existence or urgency of white racism.
Debate as appropriate what solutions should look like. But no self-pity about how white racism is a challenge for otherwise decent white folk.
All male feminists are rapists and, far from absolving them, this places an urgent burden on each and all. Anyone who thinks this statement is wrong, or that it needs further qualification that could weaken our understanding of it, or that it makes “rape” a powerless word: find some place else to debate it. If your first reaction is ever to deny an accusation of rape rather than listen and learn, this is the wrong sub. [...]
So, let me ask you: how will you solve the problem that, I don't know, maybe 30 million people in the US have been indoctrinated by the far-right and are openly racist, some more, some less? Because the way I see it, this number will only rise. You might get lucky with Trump simply because he is so incompetent, but I wouldn't be surprised if the US turned into a full-blown fascist state within the next two decades. How will you deal with a large group of white people who might not openly support the alt-right, but who have come closer and closer to accepting their talking points? Ignore them? Never talk to them because they're assholes? Your whole point seems to be: 'oh no, I don't want to coddle white people, fuck them.' This is an impossible position because white people are in the majority, they are in a position of power and they are shifting further and further to the right. Ignoring and refusing to engage them will not work. It seems to me that you are more concerned with preserving your (rightful) anger and frustration instead of actually thinking about how to prevent a fucking white ethno state. White people have to be convinced, there's no way around it. Why? Because they have the power, it's as simple as that. If you don't convince them, they will build camps and they will put you and millions of other people in them and they won't care what happens to you. Convincing them is a matter of survival because the fact is, these people won't go away. And you can find that as unjust as you want and it is extremely unjust, but that's the way it is.
Hot take from /u/turelure: all wypipo are collectively planning on mass genocide and are just waiting for the right time to strike.
My point was: right now, there's a large shift to the right in America. Millions of Americans support an openly racist president who seems to have trouble condemning white supremacists without some bullshit whataboutism. Are all people who voted for Trump racists? No, probably not, but they didn't really care about his racist remarks and policies either. The way I see it, many people's opinions and values are slowly drifting more and more into alt-right territory. It starts with them being annoyed about the supposed dangers of PC culture and SJWs and it often ends with embracing racist ideas. It goes from 'I don't like how some people see racism in everything' to 'racism actually isn't a problem, it's an SJW invention'. If you read some of the stuff that guys like Richard Spencer talk about, you'll see that they know about this dynamic and try to use it to indoctrinate more and more people and to shift the overton window slowly but surely to the point where open racism is acceptable again and where the idea of a white ethno-state suddenly seems perfectly normal. You can already see the results of these efforts in the way people (including the president) talked about Charlottesville. Instead of condemning it categorically as a terror attack, people make excuses, they say 'oh, but the leftists also used violence' and they seem to be more comfortable with Nazis parading and chanting 'Jews will not replace us' than with anti-fascist protesters who march against them. A couple of years ago, this would have been impossible. This shift in public opinion is a direct result of the Trump movement and the clever propaganda that right-wing ideologues have spread over the last few years.
My point was not that white people are planning on committing mass murder. I don't even believe that most racists are planning to commit genocide. But history shows us that genocides and cases of massive discrimination don't happen out of the blue. What you see in the years before the actual event is massive propaganda, erosion of democratic values and institutions, an escalation of public discourse, the branding of foreigners and political opponents as enemies, as a plague that must be eradicated. There are clear signs of all of these things in America right now, which is why I said I wouldn't be surprised if America turns into a fascist state within two decades or so. But of course that's not inevitable and there's still a strong resistance against these trends.
I admit though that I could have expressed these thoughts more clearly. As it stands, it's easy to misunderstand my point. It's also important to note that this is part of a discussion in which I argued against simply labeling all white people as racists.
21 comments
1 HodorTheDoorHolder 2018-01-12
And that sub was created to make fun of GamerGate. Just think about that for a second.
1 Stuntman119 2018-01-12
They seem like the exact kinds of people who would make fun of gamergate. Not implying that I support gaymer gate of course haha
1 whenweriiide 2018-01-12
Haha
1 IAintThatGuy 2018-01-12
All white people are racist and, far from absolving them, this places an urgent burden on each and all. Anyone who thinks this statement is wrong, or that it needs further qualification that could weaken our understanding of it, or that it makes “racism” a powerless word: find some place else to debate it. If your first reaction is ever to deny an accusation of racism rather than listen and learn, this is the wrong sub.
We’ve had a strong public understanding of how bias affects us all at least as far back as “The Doll Test” made famous in Brown v. Board of Education. Decades of research since have developed our knowledge in this field. Implicit bias tests are a well-known modern example, and the body of research is far stronger than what trickles into pop culture.
It would also be true to say “all people are biased.” True in the same way that “all people are dying” would be a true reply to an LGBT activist in the 80s who dared to say “HIV/AIDS patients are dying.” Truly a distraction from a more urgent issue that deserves separate consideration. We all absorb society’s toxic programming, but the US sheriff running self-described concentration camps and the US president pardoning him for related charges are not people of color who failed the doll test in Brown. In a discussion about white racism, raising the “everyone does it” flag is misleading at best, almost always derailing, and weakens the critical efforts of anti-racism.
Decent white people (the ones we’ll worry about for now) make varying efforts to end racism and never wanted to benefit from their privilege. Some think it is unfair or devalues the word’s meaning to call them “racist.” It’s true that there’s an important difference between that kind of person and a Trump supporter or other Nazis. We won’t end racism, though, if we fail to acknowledge its more “decent” formulations. Otherwise decent people who shy away from this label lose out on its insights and its demands.
Just what are decent white people to do then? Acknowledging one’s own racism isn’t about shame or self-flagellation, responses that unduly elevate white people and their experiences. White people will have to get in line and follow the march for racial equality, because the question isn’t answered, the solution isn’t here yet.
Even the most altruistic white advocate for racial justice or any cause stops advocating somewhere. There’s no easy answer for how much of ourselves to give to our causes, but for white people this is a cause that they give to, while for minorities it is a life that they experience. White people go home, eat, sleep, look after their own well being in ways no one could fault them, yet even so that is a (very reasonable) decision to prioritize their needs, in this case, over the needs of people of color. That’s not wrong. It’s also not a choice anyone else can make. Black skin can’t be shrugged off while more mundane needs are attended. White racism is not over until people no longer have to make a daily decision to put racial justice down and prioritize something else, promising to come back to it later.
In light of the above, a summary of our community standards might be:
Do not debate or undermine the existence or urgency of white racism. Debate as appropriate what solutions should look like. But no self-pity about how white racism is a challenge for otherwise decent white folk.
1 IAintThatGuy 2018-01-12
All white people are racist and, far from absolving them, this places an urgent burden on each and all. Anyone who thinks this statement is wrong, or that it needs further qualification that could weaken our understanding of it, or that it makes “racism” a powerless word: find some place else to debate it. If your first reaction is ever to deny an accusation of racism rather than listen and learn, this is the wrong sub.
We’ve had a strong public understanding of how bias affects us all at least as far back as “The Doll Test” made famous in Brown v. Board of Education. Decades of research since have developed our knowledge in this field. Implicit bias tests are a well-known modern example, and the body of research is far stronger than what trickles into pop culture.
It would also be true to say “all people are biased.” True in the same way that “all people are dying” would be a true reply to an LGBT activist in the 80s who dared to say “HIV/AIDS patients are dying.” Truly a distraction from a more urgent issue that deserves separate consideration. We all absorb society’s toxic programming, but the US sheriff running self-described concentration camps and the US president pardoning him for related charges are not people of color who failed the doll test in Brown. In a discussion about white racism, raising the “everyone does it” flag is misleading at best, almost always derailing, and weakens the critical efforts of anti-racism.
Decent white people (the ones we’ll worry about for now) make varying efforts to end racism and never wanted to benefit from their privilege. Some think it is unfair or devalues the word’s meaning to call them “racist.” It’s true that there’s an important difference between that kind of person and a Trump supporter or other Nazis. We won’t end racism, though, if we fail to acknowledge its more “decent” formulations. Otherwise decent people who shy away from this label lose out on its insights and its demands.
Just what are decent white people to do then? Acknowledging one’s own racism isn’t about shame or self-flagellation, responses that unduly elevate white people and their experiences. White people will have to get in line and follow the march for racial equality, because the question isn’t answered, the solution isn’t here yet.
Even the most altruistic white advocate for racial justice or any cause stops advocating somewhere. There’s no easy answer for how much of ourselves to give to our causes, but for white people this is a cause that they give to, while for minorities it is a life that they experience. White people go home, eat, sleep, look after their own well being in ways no one could fault them, yet even so that is a (very reasonable) decision to prioritize their needs, in this case, over the needs of people of color. That’s not wrong. It’s also not a choice anyone else can make. Black skin can’t be shrugged off while more mundane needs are attended. White racism is not over until people no longer have to make a daily decision to put racial justice down and prioritize something else, promising to come back to it later.
In light of the above, a summary of our community standards might be:
Do not debate or undermine the existence or urgency of white racism. Debate as appropriate what solutions should look like. But no self-pity about how white racism is a challenge for otherwise decent white folk.
1 Stuntman119 2018-01-12
this
1 aqouta 2018-01-12
People who care even a little bit about video game media should be shot and then shot again.
1 I_DRINK_TO_FORGET 2018-01-12
Okay but what about people who whine about those people caring?
1 aqouta 2018-01-12
Still counts are caring, just even worse. Like being the last part of the human centipede instead of the middle.
1 rockidol 2018-01-12
There was a time where it was pretty hard to escape discussions of gamer gate if you followed video game websites/forums. That time was ...I wanna say 3 or 4 years ago. Anyone who thinks they need to be in the #gamergateResistance is wasting their time.
1 IAintThatGuy 2018-01-12
All white people are racist and, far from absolving them, this places an urgent burden on each and all. Anyone who thinks this statement is wrong, or that it needs further qualification that could weaken our understanding of it, or that it makes “racism” a powerless word: find some place else to debate it. If your first reaction is ever to deny an accusation of racism rather than listen and learn, this is the wrong sub.
We’ve had a strong public understanding of how bias affects us all at least as far back as “The Doll Test” made famous in Brown v. Board of Education. Decades of research since have developed our knowledge in this field. Implicit bias tests are a well-known modern example, and the body of research is far stronger than what trickles into pop culture.
It would also be true to say “all people are biased.” True in the same way that “all people are dying” would be a true reply to an LGBT activist in the 80s who dared to say “HIV/AIDS patients are dying.” Truly a distraction from a more urgent issue that deserves separate consideration. We all absorb society’s toxic programming, but the US sheriff running self-described concentration camps and the US president pardoning him for related charges are not people of color who failed the doll test in Brown. In a discussion about white racism, raising the “everyone does it” flag is misleading at best, almost always derailing, and weakens the critical efforts of anti-racism.
Decent white people (the ones we’ll worry about for now) make varying efforts to end racism and never wanted to benefit from their privilege. Some think it is unfair or devalues the word’s meaning to call them “racist.” It’s true that there’s an important difference between that kind of person and a Trump supporter or other Nazis. We won’t end racism, though, if we fail to acknowledge its more “decent” formulations. Otherwise decent people who shy away from this label lose out on its insights and its demands.
Just what are decent white people to do then? Acknowledging one’s own racism isn’t about shame or self-flagellation, responses that unduly elevate white people and their experiences. White people will have to get in line and follow the march for racial equality, because the question isn’t answered, the solution isn’t here yet.
Even the most altruistic white advocate for racial justice or any cause stops advocating somewhere. There’s no easy answer for how much of ourselves to give to our causes, but for white people this is a cause that they give to, while for minorities it is a life that they experience. White people go home, eat, sleep, look after their own well being in ways no one could fault them, yet even so that is a (very reasonable) decision to prioritize their needs, in this case, over the needs of people of color. That’s not wrong. It’s also not a choice anyone else can make. Black skin can’t be shrugged off while more mundane needs are attended. White racism is not over until people no longer have to make a daily decision to put racial justice down and prioritize something else, promising to come back to it later.
In light of the above, a summary of our community standards might be:
Do not debate or undermine the existence or urgency of white racism. Debate as appropriate what solutions should look like. But no self-pity about how white racism is a challenge for otherwise decent white folk.
1 Wraith_GraveSpell 2018-01-12
This but unironically
1 DickingBimbos247 2018-01-12
All male feminists are rapists and, far from absolving them, this places an urgent burden on each and all. Anyone who thinks this statement is wrong, or that it needs further qualification that could weaken our understanding of it, or that it makes “rape” a powerless word: find some place else to debate it. If your first reaction is ever to deny an accusation of rape rather than listen and learn, this is the wrong sub. [...]
1 PoorLilMarco 2018-01-12
Hot take from /u/turelure: all wypipo are collectively planning on mass genocide and are just waiting for the right time to strike.
1 turelure 2018-01-12
My point was: right now, there's a large shift to the right in America. Millions of Americans support an openly racist president who seems to have trouble condemning white supremacists without some bullshit whataboutism. Are all people who voted for Trump racists? No, probably not, but they didn't really care about his racist remarks and policies either. The way I see it, many people's opinions and values are slowly drifting more and more into alt-right territory. It starts with them being annoyed about the supposed dangers of PC culture and SJWs and it often ends with embracing racist ideas. It goes from 'I don't like how some people see racism in everything' to 'racism actually isn't a problem, it's an SJW invention'. If you read some of the stuff that guys like Richard Spencer talk about, you'll see that they know about this dynamic and try to use it to indoctrinate more and more people and to shift the overton window slowly but surely to the point where open racism is acceptable again and where the idea of a white ethno-state suddenly seems perfectly normal. You can already see the results of these efforts in the way people (including the president) talked about Charlottesville. Instead of condemning it categorically as a terror attack, people make excuses, they say 'oh, but the leftists also used violence' and they seem to be more comfortable with Nazis parading and chanting 'Jews will not replace us' than with anti-fascist protesters who march against them. A couple of years ago, this would have been impossible. This shift in public opinion is a direct result of the Trump movement and the clever propaganda that right-wing ideologues have spread over the last few years.
My point was not that white people are planning on committing mass murder. I don't even believe that most racists are planning to commit genocide. But history shows us that genocides and cases of massive discrimination don't happen out of the blue. What you see in the years before the actual event is massive propaganda, erosion of democratic values and institutions, an escalation of public discourse, the branding of foreigners and political opponents as enemies, as a plague that must be eradicated. There are clear signs of all of these things in America right now, which is why I said I wouldn't be surprised if America turns into a fascist state within two decades or so. But of course that's not inevitable and there's still a strong resistance against these trends.
I admit though that I could have expressed these thoughts more clearly. As it stands, it's easy to misunderstand my point. It's also important to note that this is part of a discussion in which I argued against simply labeling all white people as racists.
1 PoorLilMarco 2018-01-12
I actually wasn't disagreeing with you. The sooner the mayocide happens, the better.
1 throwaway03022017 2018-01-12
Can't wait!
1 nanonan 2018-01-12
Who do you think has listened more to Richard Spencer, Trump supporters or rabid paranoid nutjobs such as yourself?
1 DickingBimbos247 2018-01-12
seems to me /u/turelure is one of the least nutty ghazis over there
1 wwyzzerdd 2018-01-12
/u/mach-2 helped Trump win.
1 Deutschbag_ 2018-01-12
Wow, /u/mach-2 is retarded. In other news, water is wet.