I only follow the patriarchal aspects of Islam. Not the aspects that make you a cuck e.g. Abstaining from womanising, penetrating a sweet trap virgin ass and lowering your gaze.
Maybe because those are valid arguments and you coming from a privileged perspective dismiss them oh so easily. Again, here you'll get mocked like a retard with the "it's no real socialism!!!!!!". Partido Socialista Unido de Venezuela is totally not socialist you fucking mongoloid, and Chomsky and Bernie totally didn't applaud everything Chavez did.
Funny how people like you never want to talk about the socialization in Nordic countries, cause that doesn’t support their point.
What do you think is going to happen when I say I don’t want to live in Venezuela? That I’ll have admitted socialism is bad? Because I also don’t want to live in any of the countries destroyed by western imperialism, or in any of the American communities who capitalism has failed.
The thing you ignore is that capitalism has not been a success, unless you define success as the best possible outcome for a privileged few. America has prisons overstuffed with people who don’t deserve it, so gulags are hardly avoided. Americans are politically disengaged, unhappy, and dying and living miserable lives preventably. The most spectacular and damning failure of socialism would not absolve capitalism if it’s own failures.
If you’re going to ignore most of what I said, at least get the one thing you do address right.
Any country that tries to jump from shitty, exploitative systems to perfection with no intermediate steps will fail. But the Nordic countries show that in countries who take steps towards less exploitative systems where citizens’ well being is looked after and bourgeois power over workers is checked, citizens thrive.
A stateless and classless society that cares communally for its members.
Which sounds far fetched because it is, and it’s not a goal I have any intention of striving for or hope of seeing. Like I just said, you can’t jump right to it.
The whole "america is bad" meme is a joke, everyone in Venezuela knows it. We had earthquakes and the left would blame it on the CIA. Funny how you never mention the fact that Cuba and Russia completely invaded Venezuela, but it's only imperialism when the evil Americans do it.
Venezuela has never been subject to intervention from America, we are like this because of socialism and retards like you.
God I wish I had the prrivilege you have and could live in a capitalist country, I'm still stuck here and commies like you only make my life more miserable.
Your self hate for America is a disgrace, go back to /r/lsc you prick.
Funny how people like you never want to talk about the socialization in Nordic countries, cause that doesn’t support their point.
This is the point where all illusions dissipates and you prove yourself to be a fucking moron. The Danish Prime Minister literally calls Bernie Sanders a stupid fuck for claiming it's Socialist.
Haha, it’s funny how few people want to keep talking with any substance once they realize they can’t dunk on me with a link.
Do you see how you were kind of making a strawman argument, by saying you were addressing something I didn’t actually say, because you thought that something that I might’ve said?
the economies in the nordic countries are run neither by the state nor workers owning the means of production, which cancels out both libertarian and authoritarian socialism. its just cuddly capitalism, and that does not necessarily prove that nixing private property rights or nationalizing more corporations will make things better.
How are the nordic countries being socialized if they arent moving away from private property rights? They still have absolute private property rights, but the taxes are higher. The countries are neither authoritarian socialist nor libertarian socialist
yeah I know what you mean by socialization but what im saying is the countries arent actually moving towards socialization if the method of property rights are exactly the same.
having some unions and high taxes isnt an indication that moving towards a gift economy with communally owned property and also personal property is a good idea
My phrasing in the comment I linked is important. The social services provided by those high tax rates and unionization are giving the proletariat power and regulating the bourgeoisie.
Marx understood—and I think very few opponents of the left understand this element as part of Marxism—that there were phases that economic systems went through. Feudalism to capitalism to socialism to communism, perhaps. The Russian revolution was a nominally socialists but the Marxist’s behind it didn’t think socialism was the end goal, only the phase they’d reached.
Except that’s not even quite true; Lenin though Russia was not ready for socialism, and that is what let him to attempt the skip an iteration via a transitional political power, which of course became a Stalinist authoritarian state that people mistake for communism.
Someone in this thread told me that he never expected communists to evolve or have new ideas. But the lesson to be learned from the Russian revolution is that those phases of economic system cannot be rushed, and an oligarchical cadre of marxists meant to shepherd progress will joy long remain either Marxist, or benevolent.
So on the surface, the success of Nordic welfare states is a vindication if the doctrine of liberation of the worker from stranglehold the bourgeoisie are able to gain in unchecked capitalism, and a refutation of the notion that the free market offers us our best results.
But a deeper look with some context from history tells me it’s the infuriatingly slow pace that Marxian progress takes. In 2018, it’s welfare states in Northern Europe. In 2050 maybe it could be some echo of that in the US or elsewhere in Europe. But I doubt within my lifetime that I’ll see socialism really implemented as a successor to these small progresses as I now suspect it must be in order to succeed. I doubt that the proletarian revolution will—if it’s successful—be violent like 1917.
Attempts at implementing communism reliably imply authoritarianism. Since commies are allergic to theoretical innovation, there is no reason to expect the outcome of further attempts to be different than previous attempts.
you sound pretty ignorant about communist political theory. you probably cherrypick information about it to feed your twisted view of it. there have been so many innovations to marxism alone, and that's telling. i personally am more on the libertarian socialist side
That there are plenty of different flavors of communism is without question, but look at how useless all those differences are. You can't even convince other commies to conform to your beliefs, much less get popularity in the real world. Where are the thriving "libertarian socialist" countries?
if it was libertarian socialist, it would not be a country. though there is something that resembles libertarian socialism in kurdistan, if you want a quick example
No, they don’t want to talk about it. They just want to roll a die to help decide whether they drop the word gulag, starvation, or Venezuela and then strut like they beat back the red menace.
Again with the useless comments. Yes, a communist society is stateless, but if you are hoping to ever achieve it within the next century civilization would likely be gradually guided by the state.
Besides the time point of what I said I am not sure what you are disagreeing with. Do you think the state would play a role in this gradual progression? If not, how do you think it might happen? If so, I must inquire again to your pointless navel-gazing.
The time point is pretty important. If you didn’t think so, why include it?
I’m not exactly sure what role the government would play. I’ve considered a slow atrophy that would occur as people began to associate in a way that made government unnecessary.
For us that’s all theory though, because I won’t get to see or be part of that transition.
freedom rights? property is slavery, not freedom. and voting is civil but it doesn't mean anything. anyway if you're not interested in having a polite discussion it ends here
voting doesn't mean anything, any policy implemented by one candidate would have been implemented by the other anyway, liberal democracies are like that, that's it
check up on your reading comprehension. where did i say that? it means that the people at the top will just implement policies to defend the rich, whatever party they may be from
Thank you! I'm glad my comments aren't coming across as aggressive or (too) uninformed!
I was surprised by the amount of responses to my comment on that post. I went into it expecting jokes at my expense, not a full economic theory debate. Definitely a surprise when I realized I had spent a good part of my afternoon on the subject!
I will say that there were some comments that started feeling a bit dramatic as I read them!
meh both sides are upvoted and neither are cting like complete spastics one of the better discussions ive seen on reddit and it was caused by big titty social commentary
When your most "successful" examples are actually implementing capitalist market reforms and the other two examples are respectively a dictatorship and a military junta, it takes a special kind of retard to get out there and go, "Rah Rah! Communism!"
113 comments
1 SnapshillBot 2018-01-19
I only follow the patriarchal aspects of Islam. Not the aspects that make you a cuck e.g. Abstaining from womanising, penetrating a sweet trap virgin ass and lowering your gaze.
Snapshots:
I am a bot. (Info / Contact)
1 Rith2 2018-01-19
Someone hasn’t figured out if you don’t lick the states boots under communism you get thrown in a gulag
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
someone doesn't know what communism is
read a book
1 thesouthnortherner 2018-01-19
To make it a more authentic experience, fast for a week before doing so.
1 Rith2 2018-01-19
I have read a book actually it’s called the gulag archipelago :^ )
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
wow u got me
1 Rith2 2018-01-19
Damn right I did faggot
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
kys
1 EternallyMiffed 2018-01-19
You destroyed the poor feller
1 No_Travel 2018-01-19
/u/Decalance
Gotta love the white first world country communists.
I'm from Venezuela, wanna switch places Mayo?
1 Triquetra4715 2018-01-19
Some day a capitalist will have an argument that amounts to more that “but muh gulags and Venezuela!” But it is not this day.
1 No_Travel 2018-01-19
Maybe because those are valid arguments and you coming from a privileged perspective dismiss them oh so easily. Again, here you'll get mocked like a retard with the "it's no real socialism!!!!!!". Partido Socialista Unido de Venezuela is totally not socialist you fucking mongoloid, and Chomsky and Bernie totally didn't applaud everything Chavez did.
Mayocide now tbqh
1 Triquetra4715 2018-01-19
Funny how people like you never want to talk about the socialization in Nordic countries, cause that doesn’t support their point.
What do you think is going to happen when I say I don’t want to live in Venezuela? That I’ll have admitted socialism is bad? Because I also don’t want to live in any of the countries destroyed by western imperialism, or in any of the American communities who capitalism has failed.
The thing you ignore is that capitalism has not been a success, unless you define success as the best possible outcome for a privileged few. America has prisons overstuffed with people who don’t deserve it, so gulags are hardly avoided. Americans are politically disengaged, unhappy, and dying and living miserable lives preventably. The most spectacular and damning failure of socialism would not absolve capitalism if it’s own failures.
1 JasonJewnova 2018-01-19
The nordics are capitalist you penis. They just have a bigger social safety net than most.
That system on works in the whitest countries on earth btw.
1 Triquetra4715 2018-01-19
Which is why I said socialization, not socialism.
If you’re going to ignore most of what I said, at least get the one thing you do address right.
Any country that tries to jump from shitty, exploitative systems to perfection with no intermediate steps will fail. But the Nordic countries show that in countries who take steps towards less exploitative systems where citizens’ well being is looked after and bourgeois power over workers is checked, citizens thrive.
1 JasonJewnova 2018-01-19
And what exactly is perfection? Sounds very utopian, and anyone with a brain knows how that goes.
1 Triquetra4715 2018-01-19
A stateless and classless society that cares communally for its members.
Which sounds far fetched because it is, and it’s not a goal I have any intention of striving for or hope of seeing. Like I just said, you can’t jump right to it.
1 Heydammit 2018-01-19
Those Nordic countries are capitalist though...
1 Triquetra4715 2018-01-19
https://www.reddit.com/r/Drama/comments/7rhzmn/comment/dsxptqd?st=JCMDZDMF&sh=d183c6ec
1 im-a-koala 2018-01-19
Why are all """socialists""" this stupid? The Nordic countries are entirely capitalist.
1 Triquetra4715 2018-01-19
And I didn’t say they were socialist, did I? I said socialization, which is happening, not socialism.
1 im-a-koala 2018-01-19
You implied that you would be able to use them in an argument to show socialism's (or communism's) strengths.
1 Triquetra4715 2018-01-19
https://www.reddit.com/r/Drama/comments/7rhzmn/comment/dsxptqd?st=JCMDZDMF&sh=d183c6ec
1 No_Travel 2018-01-19
The whole "america is bad" meme is a joke, everyone in Venezuela knows it. We had earthquakes and the left would blame it on the CIA. Funny how you never mention the fact that Cuba and Russia completely invaded Venezuela, but it's only imperialism when the evil Americans do it.
Venezuela has never been subject to intervention from America, we are like this because of socialism and retards like you.
God I wish I had the prrivilege you have and could live in a capitalist country, I'm still stuck here and commies like you only make my life more miserable.
Your self hate for America is a disgrace, go back to /r/lsc you prick.
1 T0yN0k 2018-01-19
This is the point where all illusions dissipates and you prove yourself to be a fucking moron. The Danish Prime Minister literally calls Bernie Sanders a stupid fuck for claiming it's Socialist.
https://qz.com/538499/denmark-says-it-isnt-the-socialist-utopia-bernie-sanders-thinks-it-is/
1 Triquetra4715 2018-01-19
You’ll notice I didn’t say that it was socialist.
Or you won’t cause your about the fifth person to think they’ve backed me into a corner with that. Check my other replies to them.
1 T0yN0k 2018-01-19
Oh yeah, I've noticed that but I noticed that people like you like to make straw man arguments too.
1 Triquetra4715 2018-01-19
Haha, it’s funny how few people want to keep talking with any substance once they realize they can’t dunk on me with a link.
Do you see how you were kind of making a strawman argument, by saying you were addressing something I didn’t actually say, because you thought that something that I might’ve said?
1 ThePathToOne 2018-01-19
the economies in the nordic countries are run neither by the state nor workers owning the means of production, which cancels out both libertarian and authoritarian socialism. its just cuddly capitalism, and that does not necessarily prove that nixing private property rights or nationalizing more corporations will make things better.
1 ThePathToOne 2018-01-19
How are the nordic countries being socialized if they arent moving away from private property rights? They still have absolute private property rights, but the taxes are higher. The countries are neither authoritarian socialist nor libertarian socialist
1 Triquetra4715 2018-01-19
https://www.reddit.com/r/Drama/comments/7rhzmn/comment/dsxptqd?st=JCMLGUE7&sh=a3849d53
1 ThePathToOne 2018-01-19
yeah I know what you mean by socialization but what im saying is the countries arent actually moving towards socialization if the method of property rights are exactly the same.
having some unions and high taxes isnt an indication that moving towards a gift economy with communally owned property and also personal property is a good idea
1 Triquetra4715 2018-01-19
My phrasing in the comment I linked is important. The social services provided by those high tax rates and unionization are giving the proletariat power and regulating the bourgeoisie.
Marx understood—and I think very few opponents of the left understand this element as part of Marxism—that there were phases that economic systems went through. Feudalism to capitalism to socialism to communism, perhaps. The Russian revolution was a nominally socialists but the Marxist’s behind it didn’t think socialism was the end goal, only the phase they’d reached.
Except that’s not even quite true; Lenin though Russia was not ready for socialism, and that is what let him to attempt the skip an iteration via a transitional political power, which of course became a Stalinist authoritarian state that people mistake for communism.
Someone in this thread told me that he never expected communists to evolve or have new ideas. But the lesson to be learned from the Russian revolution is that those phases of economic system cannot be rushed, and an oligarchical cadre of marxists meant to shepherd progress will joy long remain either Marxist, or benevolent.
So on the surface, the success of Nordic welfare states is a vindication if the doctrine of liberation of the worker from stranglehold the bourgeoisie are able to gain in unchecked capitalism, and a refutation of the notion that the free market offers us our best results.
But a deeper look with some context from history tells me it’s the infuriatingly slow pace that Marxian progress takes. In 2018, it’s welfare states in Northern Europe. In 2050 maybe it could be some echo of that in the US or elsewhere in Europe. But I doubt within my lifetime that I’ll see socialism really implemented as a successor to these small progresses as I now suspect it must be in order to succeed. I doubt that the proletarian revolution will—if it’s successful—be violent like 1917.
1 freet0 2018-01-19
if you put muh in front of something that makes it automatically stupid and wrong
1 Prometherion13 2018-01-19
I would say that someday communists will become less clinically retarded, but we all know that will never happen.
1 pepperouchau 2018-01-19
>not *One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich
Nice job on babby's first Solzhenitsyn
1 CirqueDuFuder 2018-01-19
Holy boot licking tankie
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
do you wanna talk about it? communism doesn't imply authoritarianism
1 UmmahSultan 2018-01-19
Attempts at implementing communism reliably imply authoritarianism. Since commies are allergic to theoretical innovation, there is no reason to expect the outcome of further attempts to be different than previous attempts.
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
you sound pretty ignorant about communist political theory. you probably cherrypick information about it to feed your twisted view of it. there have been so many innovations to marxism alone, and that's telling. i personally am more on the libertarian socialist side
1 UmmahSultan 2018-01-19
That there are plenty of different flavors of communism is without question, but look at how useless all those differences are. You can't even convince other commies to conform to your beliefs, much less get popularity in the real world. Where are the thriving "libertarian socialist" countries?
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
if it was libertarian socialist, it would not be a country. though there is something that resembles libertarian socialism in kurdistan, if you want a quick example
1 PM_ME_REDHEAD_BABES 2018-01-19
Yeah but thats a shithole
1 newprofile15 2018-01-19
Good luck stealing my property if you’re actually a libertarian. Communists who think socialism and libertarian are compatible are gigantic retards.
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
jesus christ mate you're actually so fucking dense
1 newprofile15 2018-01-19
Lol 14 year olds thinking they got shit figured out
1 Trapsarentgayyy 2018-01-19
Imagine not only being this retarded, but choosing to publicly broadcast it online
1 Triquetra4715 2018-01-19
In fact it implies no state at all.
No, they don’t want to talk about it. They just want to roll a die to help decide whether they drop the word gulag, starvation, or Venezuela and then strut like they beat back the red menace.
1 CirqueDuFuder 2018-01-19
Let's be fair, I didn't beat the Red Menace, supermarkets, blue jeans, and US military alliances did.
1 Heydammit 2018-01-19
Again with the useless comments. Yes, a communist society is stateless, but if you are hoping to ever achieve it within the next century civilization would likely be gradually guided by the state.
1 Triquetra4715 2018-01-19
Trying yo accelerate the emergence of communism by state guidance is exactly where Lenin went wrong. So I don’t hope to see it in the next century.
1 Heydammit 2018-01-19
Besides the time point of what I said I am not sure what you are disagreeing with. Do you think the state would play a role in this gradual progression? If not, how do you think it might happen? If so, I must inquire again to your pointless navel-gazing.
1 Triquetra4715 2018-01-19
The time point is pretty important. If you didn’t think so, why include it?
I’m not exactly sure what role the government would play. I’ve considered a slow atrophy that would occur as people began to associate in a way that made government unnecessary.
For us that’s all theory though, because I won’t get to see or be part of that transition.
1 Redactor0 2018-01-19
There isn't any red menace. Nobody is afraid of edgy teenagers taking over the world.
1 Triquetra4715 2018-01-19
That was kind of my point, bud
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
well, this is /r/Drama, i didn't expect any less
1 Triquetra4715 2018-01-19
I’ve never been here, but it was a mistake to come.
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
it's like /r/subredditdrama but less clean. they actually ping you here lmao
1 LordBlackmore 2018-01-19
I'd rather just laugh at the wannabe commie.
1 CirqueDuFuder 2018-01-19
I don't want to give up my voting or property rights. How do you enforce that now?
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
why don't you want to?
1 newprofile15 2018-01-19
Because I want more resources and fuck you.
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
kys
1 CirqueDuFuder 2018-01-19
Because fuck off with you taking my freedom and civil rights.
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
freedom rights? property is slavery, not freedom. and voting is civil but it doesn't mean anything. anyway if you're not interested in having a polite discussion it ends here
1 newprofile15 2018-01-19
Lol you’re a tard
1 CirqueDuFuder 2018-01-19
Voting doesn't mean anything? Fuck off with your dictator worship.
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
voting doesn't mean anything, any policy implemented by one candidate would have been implemented by the other anyway, liberal democracies are like that, that's it
1 CirqueDuFuder 2018-01-19
So that means people can stfu about their complaints regarding Trump?
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
check up on your reading comprehension. where did i say that? it means that the people at the top will just implement policies to defend the rich, whatever party they may be from
1 CirqueDuFuder 2018-01-19
So, answer my question.
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
you don't deserve it lmao
1 CirqueDuFuder 2018-01-19
Tankie
1 newprofile15 2018-01-19
Yes, it definitely does. How else do you steal everyone’s property?
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
property is already stolen, it's theft at its purest form. i would be merely redistributing it
1 celocanth13 2018-01-19
the only book you need is the Bible my friend
1 freet0 2018-01-19
Like maybe some Solzhenitsyn?
1 DaDavis97 2018-01-19
In all fairness, tiddies can be rather polarizing.
1 Heydammit 2018-01-19
You did a really.good job of engaging everyone and cooling down the drama. I am not sure you belong here.
1 DaDavis97 2018-01-19
Thank you! I'm glad my comments aren't coming across as aggressive or (too) uninformed!
I was surprised by the amount of responses to my comment on that post. I went into it expecting jokes at my expense, not a full economic theory debate. Definitely a surprise when I realized I had spent a good part of my afternoon on the subject!
I will say that there were some comments that started feeling a bit dramatic as I read them!
1 sixty_nine_69 2018-01-19
Stop being nice. It makes me feel icky.
1 Fuish 2018-01-19
Icky, gross, and problematic.
1 newprofile15 2018-01-19
How dare you endorse anything resembling a “cool down”, fuck you, mods plz ban
1 Heydammit 2018-01-19
Already starting out the year with a nominee for mosr navel-gazey, useless comment ever.
1 hlary 2018-01-19
its true tho?
1 Peetrius 2018-01-19
But it ain't capitalisms fault that women wouldn't date someone too cheap to pay for a meal.
1 Solilowey 2018-01-19
It is capitalism's fault that you have to feed yourself by working (I know, how horrible.)
1 londonagain 2018-01-19
but plenty of countries have social services for those without jobs to feed themselves, so ?? yay communism is so great??
1 Triquetra4715 2018-01-19
Yeah that’s not what I meant
1 newprofile15 2018-01-19
Wow labor is necessary to society and people don’t just hand you everything... what a crazy thought.
1 hlary 2018-01-19
money isnt labor tho
1 Heydammit 2018-01-19
It's impossible to do practically anything in a capitalist system without paying money. It's a meaningless insight.
Hell, even in a communist system you would have to put in some labor.
1 toynbeeidea16 2018-01-19
I'll gladly perform a labor of love for you.
With my penis.
1 Heydammit 2018-01-19
I am sorry but I need to deescalate this situation. Let me suck on that pecker a couple of times.
1 Heydammit 2018-01-19
whoops meant to reply to /u/hlary
1 hlary 2018-01-19
meh both sides are upvoted and neither are cting like complete spastics one of the better discussions ive seen on reddit and it was caused by big titty social commentary
1 disgruntled_chode 2018-01-19
Soundtrack for this drama available here.
1 Chicup 2018-01-19
/u/Decalance
Show me on the doll where capitalism touched you.
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
kys
1 grungebot5000 2018-01-19
this is the proper response
1 Rith2 2018-01-19
MODS BAN HIM
BAAAAAN HIM
IF YOU BAN ME YOU HAVE TO BAN HIM REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
/u/snallygaster /u/AnnArchist
1 Zachums 2018-01-19
nah he's fine.
1 Rith2 2018-01-19
wtf i hate /r/drama now :((((
1 Decalance 2018-01-19
stop brigading in our sub, if the mods do see this it would be cool to abide by sitewide rules
1 Rith2 2018-01-19
No ones brigading your doodoo sub
1 IronComrade 2018-01-19
Fertilizer for plants?! I love my life
1 Pepperglue 2018-01-19
u/Decalance, please tell us why there are no successful communist countries on Earth.
1 pepperouchau 2018-01-19
I know you mayos like to post every time to see the dirty c-word, but this is mundane af
1 aqouta 2018-01-19
Why does every communist always sound like they should be posted to /r/im14andthisisdeep
1 VidiotGamer 2018-01-19
When your most "successful" examples are actually implementing capitalist market reforms and the other two examples are respectively a dictatorship and a military junta, it takes a special kind of retard to get out there and go, "Rah Rah! Communism!"
1 PM-ME-YOUR-UNDERARMS 2018-01-19
OP is your username based off Ayn Rand the author?
1 Trapsarentgayyy 2018-01-19
No its based off of Ayn Rand the singer
1 letumblrfaec 2018-01-19
Seriously though, have you ever seen a commie with tits that big?
I thought not.