Don't Be Accountable to Nazis

13  2018-01-30 by do_not_post_comments

Last week I wrote a piece titled "Why You Shouldn't Think for Yourself." I argued that there's no way to avoid relying on other people's opinions; we think in language, which is taught to us by other people,. All our other thoughts and beliefs originate somewhere else . Even the idea "you should think for yourself!" is a hoary cliché; no one who thinks you should think for yourself got that idea from themselves. Morality and thought is a group endeavor. Best not to pretend otherwise. One reason you shouldn't pretend otherwise, in particular, is that pretending you don't rely on other people is one easy way to fall into the wrong crowd. This is part of the reason there's an embarrassingly slippery slope from libertarian free speech arguments to Nazism.

Libertarians are committed to a vision of thought as a lonely, isolated endeavor; we're all supposed to be free, rational, unattached enlightenment brains, soaring above the herds of baah-ing sheeple and malevolent witch-hunters burning Galileo. We should ignore the distracting sweaty mobs, and determine the truth through beautiful reason by evaluating all available information with dispassionate Spockishness.

And that's where the Nazis come in. In the Spockish view, Nazism is just another contextless argument. Libertarians believe that Nazi arguments are bad arguments of course—but they know that because they listen carefully to Nazi arguments to suss out the badness. Free speech absolutists argue that we need to allow Nazi speech into the public sphere so we can refute it. Everything must be evaluated on its own merits; you can only arrive at the truth if you, independently, listen to all arguments and sift them each for yourself.

The problem here is that no one actually thinks like this. People aren't autonomous brains; they're people, who live in communities. In particular, Nazis don't just present their ideas dispassionately for the edification of free speech absolutists and libertarians. Nazis actively target marginalized people; they send them death threats. They send them rape threats. They stab them and drive cars at them when they can. The goal of Nazis is not to put their ideas forward for evaluation. It's to use speech, lies, and actions to drive marginalized people out of communities, not infrequently by murdering them.

Being in a community with Nazis is not safe for marginalized people. So, when Nazis show up in a community, lots of people say, "fuck you, Nazi. You're not welcome here."

But if you're a libertarian, this seems intolerant. We must listen to all people equally! How else can I make up my independent mind and evaluate the evidence!

So what happens? An independent thinker makes a big deal of talking to Nazis. Folks who aren't Nazis are appalled and frightened. They try to get independent thinker to stop talking to Nazis who are trying to kill them. They point out that they are going to have to stop talking to independent thinker, because talking to IT means coming in contact with Nazis, which is really dangerous.

IT gets more and more pissy. On the one hand, here are the Nazis, pleasantly talking to IT. On the other hand, there are these nasty anti-Nazis who are telling IT that IT's not allowed to carefully weigh arguments about whether or not to kill them. Quickly independent thinker starts to hang out more with the Nazis, and less with everyone else. The Nazis say the non-Nazis are irrational and mean—and hey, the independent thinker has to independently agree that those non-Nazis are sure being mean, and aren't rationally listening to Nazi arguments about how non-Nazis should be murdered in camps. Those Jews/black people, women/marginalized folks obviously are bad people; based on independent thinking those Nazis are onto something!

Eventually, independent thinker has created a community of Nazis—and when your community is composed of Nazis, and you're accountable to Nazis, then the people doing your thinking for you are Nazis, which means you're a Nazi too.

This doesn't happen to all independent thinkers (TM) by any means, but I've seen it happen to a couple on social media. And obviously, writ large, the rage against "political correctness" and the insistence that free speech means letting racists prattle from every platform helped legitimize Trump. When you reject all community, you effectively open your brain to the worst possible communities. If you aren't willing to choose a side, the worst side will choose you.

16 comments

Beats up OP and takes his lunch money

You sound suspiciously independent

was this from the anouncement thread?

when you reject all community, you open your brain up to the worst possible communities. If you're not willing to choose a side, the worst side will choose you.

Isn't the jerk on this sub pro-centrism and anti... every political community

im not reading this

Just found this subreddit, I pretty much identify as a libertarian, and It saddens me that This anti Ron Paul/Libertarian pro-establishment governmentisessentialforprettymucheverything page even exists, and the constant generalization on here of "libertarians" (a label you project onto anybody who says something remotely in favor of small government) into a fictional archetype is totally out of control.

The general consensus around this sub is to generalize everyone who has libertarian/small government ideas as a racist and so many other "libertarian" cliches (ideas conceived and created by the military industrial complex run mainstream media to discredit people who are actually a threat to it, such as Ron Paul) that have nothing to do with reality, and can be easily refuted if you were to talk to someone like Ron Paul in person. I mean racism has nothing to do with libertatianism, I think you guys are confusing libertarians with old conservatives that don't like blacks for whatever reason. Or straight up racists that you just project the label of “Libertarian” on to because they have a “don't tread on me” flag in their front yard.

Anyways... There's a thread here about Adam Kokesh being arrested, and people seem to be completely Ok with that, and actually find it pretty amusing that Adam, an ANTI-WAR VETERAN, was falsely arrested, kidnapped, and held ransom for $25,000 because a drug dog supposedly “alerted” the armed thugs of MARIJANA in the vehicle? YAYYY WAR ON DRUGS!!! IT PUT SOMEBODY IN JAIL WE DON'T LIKE!!! What the hell are you people? What the Fuck is this sub? I bet you guys take the time to explain how “rational” you are at least once a day. I'd like to peek into some of your authoritarian minds to see whats going on up there, but I wouldn't want to stay there long. It would just be a barrage of regulationisessentialgovernmentisnecessarytomakeeverythingequal,ilearnedthattodayinhistoryclass garbage. I mean maybe that is just a straw man argument on my part but that seems to be how your hive minds work. A good majority of the posts on here exist to just clamor for likes with stupid “witty” or “rational” pro-government control arguments to stop the straw-man archetype racist “libertarian” that exists, like the boogeyman, in your MINDS.

You people don't seem to give a shit at all about the unsustainable debt level of the united states, the inflationary policies of the federal reserve that devalue the currency and rob the poor and middle class, or the havoc that the military industrial complex wreaks upon the world in the name of "democracy for the world".

I mean... you guys couldn't care less about all the militarism and continuation of bush-era policies under Obama, you just turn the other cheek to the interventionist world police policies of Obama, and just think that its rad and progressive that he is best buds with chance the rapper.

A LOT OF YOU PEOPLE LITERALLY WERE OK WITH MASS MURDER ALL AROUND THE GLOBE AND BUSH ERA POLICIES DURING OBAMA'S PRESIDENCY JUST CUZ HES BLACK, AND YOU WOULD RATHER TALK ABOUT TRANS MILITARY RIGHTS. I MEAN YOU HAVE A PICTURE OF OBAMA THE WAR CRIMINAL ON YOUR BANNER It's unbelievable and sad that this type thought prevails in the social conciousness. And you would probably call me "racist" for even mentioning black people in any way... you'll find a way to interpret what i've said as racism.

This post has digressed a lot from adam kokesh and his kidnapping and $25,000 ransom for MARIJUANA FOR FUCKS SAKE, (which you guys seem to be fine with because you don't like his political opinions), but I just wanted to put a couple thoughts out there. Maybe Get you out of your groupthink pro-establishment like-seeking coma for a second or 2... well, until you can come up with a witty like-seeking straw-man comment that the hive will approve.

Everything you anti-libertarian people collectively think about how culture/society should be "organized" is based on fear of past "injustices" that probably didn't happen exactly the way you think they did cause you read about bad white guys it in a mainstream history book whose publication you aren't sure who funded... And the archetype libertarians that you think exist are just a figment of your collective imaginations.

I've never seen a more diverse group out there than libertarians and Ron Paul supporters, in personality and race, all the racist stuff you talk about within the libertarian community literally is a figment of your imaginations. Bernie Sanders Supporters are pretty close as far as diversity is concerned, but for the most part they're there to project blame onto the "wall street fat cats", and of course you can't forget dat 15 DOLLAS AN HOUA! Cha Ching!

Go ahead, ban me if you want, have your safe space to hate on your straw man that has nothing to do with reality, Ron Paul, or Libertarians. But that's just a reflection of your intolerance, mental decay, and dopamine feedback loop “like”-seeking minds that are filled up with pro welfare/warfare state propaganda that you THINK is reality cause you saw it on the military industrial complex approved “News”.

Whenever you decide that "the government needs to regulate this or that aspect of society" It means you are giving up on a peaceful solution to a problem. You're literally just GIVING UP. THAT'S WHAT IT IS. YOU GAVE THE FUCK UP ON THE IDEA OF FREEDOM!!!!! Even saying the word "freedom" around here provokes negative reactions from you people, because you project "freedom to pollute, or to hurt others" onto libertarians. You won't admit you literally just gave up on the concept of freedom, what it really means... And you'll just come at me with all these fantasy stories about bad things happening to people in free markets.

We can't have a prefect utopian world where everybody's equal, its impossible. Libertarianism is pretty much the only ideology that ACUTALLY ACCEPTS THAT!!!!! IT ACCEPTS ACTUAL REALITY AND DOESNT TRY TO MAKE THE WORLD A SAFE SPACE!!!! If you wanna make everybody equal and all that fantasy stuff that has never worked, you will fundamentally change culture to an authoritarian culture, where the collective goals of "society" are the most important. This is not good. AND IN THE PROCESS YOU WILL CREATE A GIGANTIC COLLECTIVE MACHINE OF "DEMOCRACY" THAT WANTS TO DO CRAZY INSANE THINGS LIKE SEND PEOPLE ON COLONIES TO MARS WHILE YOU POLLUTE THE EARTH 100 TIMES MORE THAN "FREE LIBERTARIANS" EVER COULD!!!!!! YAY WE'RE GOING TO MARS, WHOOPEEE!!!!! WE'VE DESTROYED OUR OWN PLANET WITH OUR COLLECTIVE WELL REGULATED MACHINE, WE'RE ON OUT COLLECTIVE WAY TO THE STARS, TO SPREAD OUR COLLECTIVE WISDOM ABOUT THE NECESSITY OF GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION!!!!

You people need to write Ron Paul and Adam Kokesh a collective apology note for fucks sake, and then REPENT!!! And I'm not even religious... There's still some time to get out of your governmentisessentialforeverything thought patterns... for most of you... Get out of them while you still can!!! The complete crystalization of your brain patterns can be a tough thing to stop once the process has begun through looking at too much "unbiased news". For some of you its too late, for others who are beginning to be led astray by the freedom hating crystalized fear-controlled groupthink brains, I would recommend reading "The Revolution" by Ron Paul, so you can get a better idea of what libertarianism, non agression, and freedom is all about. Read that book cover to cover before you hate on libertarians because of a fake strawman hypothetical "don't tread on me" racist archetype created by the crystalized brains of those who GAVE UP on freedom and non-aggression by the government, because they saw some rednecks with confederate flags and music blasting the word "freedom", assumed they were "libertarians", and it hurt their feelings.

Read that book, and find ONE thing wrong with it. I fucking dare you.

ee you're predictably lumping me in with the "manson camp" and saying i'm a manson follower and thinking i'm some sort of "alt right neo whatever" archetype, when those stereotypes have nothing to do with my life or personality. You're not adressing the issue or any points i made and just pointing your finger saying "look at these "neo alt right hitler nazi devil blah blah blah scum" its THEM!!!" Manson wasn't your typical racist, he says in an interview that africans arent dumb "colored folk" like many white people think, and are actually very smart and intelligent. In his delusional state (notice, i say delusional, i'm not on "team manson" like it seems your simple mind thinks i am) he thought the blacks would rise up against the whites because they had been oppressed and on the bottom of society for so long, not because he hated them or had a vendetta against them. He also was raised in prison where whites and blacks generally keep their distance, don't interact and there is much more fear and tension.

His rationale for the swastika has something to do with the collective society never being able to get over ww2, so we're now always in a constant state of war, looking for enemies and fights. And also because he was judged by the same judge who presided over the nuremburg trials, and that judge originally sentanced him to death, so its like a bizzare reflection. And so he's using the swastika because he's become a SYMBOL of evil, he's been forced into this role where he's become the ultimate boogeyman scapegoat. I believe that the swastika actually had some other meaning before the germans took it as their symbol. In his mind he reclaimed it and now it means ATWA to him, Air Trees Water Animals. In his mind he like re appropriated the swastika or something. I'm not saying that i support having a swastika on your forehead

All i'm saying is that manson is a more complex character than hes been portrayed, there is good and there is bad. And that he took the blame for something that a bunch of OTHER people actually committed, and wanted (were not forced) to do. Even sharon tates mom says she puts the blame far more heavily on tex watson than manson. Shes like 1000 times more angry with watson and atkins than manson.

People are always looking for someone to blame. And you're the kind of person that needs to pick a side and join a team on every issue i imagine. You probably have an opinion and join a team on every single topic, even though you know very little, or only what has been said on tv, or someones top voted post, and i'm guessing you probably identify with a certain political party or philosopy that you think is the best one of all of them. You truly are an enlightened moral judge of right and wrong, glory and damnation.

ok this is harassment

Well the so called "conservative" and "liberal" ideologies are just a Hodge podge of random ideas that aren't logically related anyway. If you're a "conservative" you're supposed to have religious values, believe in military aggressiveness around the globe, be anti drug legalization, but also believe the govt should "stay out of my life". Those views aren't consistent with each other. If you're a "liberal" you're supposed to believe in helping the poor through taxation, be anti gun, being indifferent to military adventurism, have socialist inclinations, and pro drug legalization. Which are also views that aren't necessarily consistent with each other. The views that are accepted as the "norm" on either side are just a bunch of nit picked ideas that are spoon fed to people incapable of thought who want to be on a team. There's really no underlying system of thought to the "moderate" average conservative or liberal. Being a moderate on either side is essentially just intellectual suicide. Honestly the words "conservative" and "liberal" just need to be erased from the public's consciousness because they create a swamp of confusion due to everybody's personal definitions.

😡

Words are really just complicated noises that cause a lot of miscommunication because of different people's interpretations. It's important to not place so much importance in your personal definitions, that's what leads to so much conflict. Even violent conflict. Think about the fact that there are many interpretations of words and perspectives out there, and its a bad idea to tell someone "you can't say this, but I can, because my identity is blah blah blah". It's just a negative way of thinking to try and tell people what they can/can't say because of how you percieve that persons identity, especially when all you know about the person is what you've read online. People are more complex than just "Straight" "Gay" "Trans" "Bi", whatever.

i like this bot

She's only saying this now because her team of political analysts looked at graphs of public opinion and saw that it would be to her advantage to make this statement.

If the graphs didn't show that it would help her political career to come out in "support of marijuana as a safer alternative to opioids", she would have remained silent on the issue.

I'm getting sick of marijuana getting proposed as an alternative to opioids. There's really just no comparison, they both serve completely different purposes.

Why can't senator Elizabeth Warren just argue that marijuana should be legalized simply because people should have the right to put what they want into their own bodies?

She made this statement to stir up more mass hysteria about the "opioid epidemic". The opioid epidemic created by the government by making opioids illigal in the first place.

If you could buy oxycodone over the counter (21 and up) people would not be dying from fake things laced with fentanyl. Honestly heroin probably would not even exist. I am so sick of these control freaks in the government who want to control every aspect of your life, Elizabeth Warren is such a fake.

I can imagine 10 years ago she was probably against marijuana. 20 years ago i am almost certain she would have even been against medical marijuana. These control freaks are all the same. She's an opportunist who just follows public opinion. There's no underlying thought or principle to anything she does.

Oh my God. Can we nip this "nazi" complaint in the bud right now? It's only been two weeks since a bunch of people decided Drama was nazi and started being vocal about it. Well, as an avid Drama veteran and guy with nothing to do right now, I'm going to put this to rest. Because I am sick of it. The whining. The complaining. "Nah nah nah" all the time. Jesus.

Am I superior to the average Reddit poster? Absolutely. I dress better. I have hotter sexual partners (and more of them). I make more money. I'm better educated. All of my opinions are thoroughly researched and I'm able to express them better than anyone else on the planet. I have a higher IQ. I have better taste in music, art, literature, video games, cars, name something I have better taste than you and the rest of Reddit.

My dick is thick and girthy; it feels firm in your hand, it fills you up, but it won't hurt you. It's the perfect size. My body is tight, toned, tanned, and shaved. Name a type of model - head, body, hand, feet, dick - and I could be that kind of model. I don't because I'm too busy making a shit ton of money as a doctor lawyer who runs a non-profit for victims of genocide. I'm 6'2', 185, 3% bf. I'm better. I'm superior.

Now I know what you're thinking: "Hey, if you're so much better than everyone else on Reddit, wtf are you doing on Reddit?" And this is the main thing, really. This is what concerns me the most. Although I am superior by every objective and subjective test imaginable by man, most of Reddit doesn't know I'm superior. It's important to me that they know. It's like... if you sing the most beautiful song in the world, but nobody is there to hear it, what's the point? Yanno?

I am the most beautiful song in the world.

So give it a rest. Telling me (and I assume you're talking directly to me, because I assume all statements made by anyone are about me and I am always right) that I only post to feel nazi is just a waste of your time and mine. I know I sound like I feel like I'm nazi.

You said it, man.

Two things:

'German' is more than being a nominal subject of a given jurisdiction. German is an ethnicity and member of a specific genetic nation, which Jews are not. There are half-Jews and the like, but that doesn't remove the dynamic, and the history of the Ashkenazim is one of diaspora anyways.

I remain unconvinced those camps weren't detention centers that got caught in the fires of war (logistical destruction by Allies), leading to starvation of Germans and Jews alike. I'm always open to evidence, but the more I look into it, the more I see there isn't much for the American public school conclusion, which is so (needfully) certain of its own righteousness.

I hope you know some of the photos we were shown weren't actually even German, but Eastern European.

And regarding this OP, once more: Hitler's National Socialism honestly saved his people from high divorce rates and high suicide rates. For 10-15 years, his policies relieved and restored German spirits. It's absolutely laughable to suggest he hurt his own people. Quite the opposite.

America is setting herself up for the same dynamic (we're already seeing high suicide rates among the white working class, like there was in Germany), where she will need her own National Socialism. The Donald Trump phenomenon is symptomatic of it.

So you're fun at parties. Fuck you, I'm gonna continue to be an independent thinker and not you or any Nazis are gonna talk me out of it! See, I've used my independent thought to equate you with a Nazi, and also I've come to the independent conclusion that Godwin was probably a Nazi too so his law is a bunch of facist bullshit.