The people involved here probably don't even respect bussy all that much.

Snapshots:

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Sapient

breddy gud /u/neroisstillbanned. Now do one for Muslim terror.

/u/Incelistan24

You just turned an innocent persons death into a satirical joke.

What a cuntbag you are

Oh get that stick out and laugh once an a while. Laughter cures many ills.

Except Drumpf syndrome. Ain’t no cure for that.

Daily reminder that Elliot Rodger killed 3 nerdy Asian guys and random people who weren’t the Chads and Stacie’s he hated so much.

I like how this is the second most upvoted comment, like wtf, would if have been better if it was?

For him and his fans, it would have been.

I find it funny he resorted to killing those people because was to incel stupid to shoot out the sorority house window.

I find it weird they target Women at all, you think they'd target the men that are getting screwed instead of them.

That Chad dominance frightens them till the end

They believe women to be the puppet masters.

It shows that they actually perceive women as "capable" in a way.

Kind of like how a lot of white nationalists hate Blacks, but then some WNs hate the Jews that are supposedly enabling the Blacks.

And then there are the Jews who also want to join in the fun!!!

https://forward.com/opinion/393514/white-nationalism-is-spreading-in-the-orthodox-community/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-us-investor-linked-to-russia-probe-says-he-bought-alt-right-domain-names/

I guess his point is that most people don't remember that he killed some random Asian guys. They only remember that he was an incel that wanted to kill women.

Incels and weebs are one of the most pathetic groups. Their degeneracy knows no bounds.

Emojis need more acceptance tbh. It's the future and there's no turning back 😜

👧🏿

Yes we can.

why would you post the poo emoji?

Lolololol

That's my daddy 😜💦💦💦🍆

Thanks for ur cummies OwO

jews are far worse.

https://youtu.be/rGmA_97dBY4?t=10

You're like a half-rate /u/feeeeeeeeepo. You just make everyone miss the real thing.

I've got some bad news for your motherfucker.

https://i.imgur.com/4b3DjZt.jpg

😴😴😴

I'm so glad this is catching on ☺️️

Half rate is being generous

The bald guy on the left is at most a quarter black. I'm surprised the NOI let him in.

Got to love how racist NOI is

the word racism is a whitephobic racial slur. the truth is anti-semetic.

https://i.imgur.com/4b3DjZt.jpg

weebs just have a thing for lolis, little sisters, and schoolgirls, there's nothing degenerate about that.

This but unironically

>Gussy

Who carse?

Ehhh good point

How about bussy top right.

that's my line, you fuck.

She has tiny lips and a 5 head.

No, that's what the scratches on the choker are for

The Asian girl to the left is much cuter tbh 😌

He has shit taste, the Asian girl in box 2,2 is (was) way cuter.

inceltears poster

shit taste

ShockedandAmazed.png

literally no contest

It bothers me that (2,2) refers to "two right, two down" but I'm more bothered by the lack of symmetry on the chart

Usually I think you'd start from the bottom left, I started from the top left mainly because the entire bottom was a clusterfuck and I didn't want to get into that.

right? they have 16 squares why isn't it 4x4?

Is. She even decomposes prettier.

Between u and me we have enough edge for the entire world.

Yeah she’s waaaay cuter, the one at the bottom doesn’t even look female. I think Asian 2,2 was the biggest tragedy.

Can it be any other way.

That is what an incel would say. A creepy post like that is thirsty as fuck.

Tbh, the loss of 2,2 is enough to convince me that every incel should be euthanized.

kill em at birth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0N88Lqg8Wc

person1: This is one reason why I am trying to respectfully engage with the incels in their own subreddit. Instead of just pointing and laughing

person2: I would agree with you, except I've tried a few times

person1: right, you have to be less retarded than the incels in order to successfully engage

Posts in Braincels [Has the nerve to talk about 'the social ladder'(#gt)

You are and always will on the lowest rung of 'the social ladder' you socially retarded loser.

Nah, incel pussies don't deserve bussy just like they don't deserve gussy

Nah, you earn bussy, boy.

I'd like to see how does it feel to be assblasted in 10 seconds flat.

You mean like you are right now, fam?

Look, I'm sorry you're so socially inept that you can't get laid or make friends but don't get all flustered when someone points out how pathetic that is. You only have yourself to blame, champ.

Woah, where did all that snark go? Did I hit a little too close to home? Remember to keep yourself safe it would benefit you quite a bit.

Sure thing, bud. But I guess you're just pretending to be this pathetic, right?

What are you trying to say though?

That you're a pathetic waste of oxygen who should probably get around to fixing that.

Besides the fact that you became violently buttblasted and that you're shit at insults?

Comes to /r/drama Whines about being made fun of

Do you know where you are? Sorry that I'm not catering to your hurt-ass feelings but everyone is fair game here, dude. You get no sympathy points from me. Maybe logoff for a bit and take a walk or something, who knows you might have an epiphany or something that'll help you take some personal responsibility for yourself. But who am I kidding you probably continue down this rabbit hole till you either kill yourself or someone else, I'd love to be proven wrong though.

Did I strike a chord with you, famalam? Recognized something in me? It's okay, I'm sure you'll make through whatever it is you're going through

The closer to come to addressing your problems the closer you come to fixing them but instead you continue to go "no u" whenever someone points out the obvious about you. It's honestly kinda sad 😢

You certainly sound unwell, bby, everything's going to be alright, don't worry.

I suggest you take a break and go outside but of course it's easier to just not do that. I guess you'll never fix yourself, I call dibs on the thread for when you go postal.

Ya keep deflecting but ya can't even do that right. Keep going and you'll learn.

He says as he deflects any suggestion that he take some personal responsibility and actually try not to be a loser just he can continue playing victim. Remember you only have yourself to blame, champ.

Going postal is silly and a tired trope.

Yet topical

Getting people butthurt on Reddit - now that's a novel thing everybody can get behind.

I agree 😊

Jesus, you can't even come with decent bait. Yeah, I'm responding but I'm bored and not pretending to be "le master trolle". What's your excuse?

I'm bored, this is fun. Also not trolling.

So do you feel sad for yourself as well? That's the first step.

I have a job, I have things I have to do.

Welcome to being an adult, those things are expected of you.

I mean, I am socially stunted but do you really think I'm a sperg? If I actually was, I wouldn't hold down a job for more 3 years after running away from the war? I either have to be a genius, or not actually that much of a sperg.

Okay, so now work on the whole being socially stunted thing rather than wallowing in self-pity and you'll be good to go. Have convos with co-workers, hit the gym, go on a tinder date (doesn't matter if you hit it off or not, it's better than posting on shit like braincels or foreveralone). Everything you want is achievable.

Oy vey, sorry that I tried to be serious for once.

So was I, stop setting low expectations for yourself. Those are not things you should be looking at pat on your back for. You get a raise, a promotion, a better job? Then hell yeah be proud of that but don't be satisfied with the bare minimum that life has to offer.

Once I fix my hernia, I'll be back to gym but it kinda takes money, you know.

Okay, get your hernia fixed. However, it doesn't take money to start running or hell even pirate something like Insanity (A high interval workout program) just to get started. It's better than doing nothing.

About 7 ghostings so far.

Keep going for it. Life obviously dealt you a shit hand, doesn't mean you stop trying to improve your life, you'll probably have to work harder than most but it'll be worth it.

Two out of three.

Good, keep working at it.

After I clear with a cardiologist, dermatologist and pulmonologist my current state (I underwent surgery in 1995 and I'm required by law to provide the statement of health from a dermatologist and pulmonologist before attending a public pool due to an epidemic of TB in Ukraine), I am going to pool. Due to my 10-hour work schedule, however, it may take some time.

Take as much time as you need, as long as you get around to making time for it you'll be fine.

I am working on it. I still need an outlet for an excess of my emotions.

Have you tried therapy? Or hell even looking at a non-conventional outlet such as music, art, or writing?

Well, save up enough for therapy, I think that would be the most beneficial thing for you. I don't know what to tell you about the bad luck about your youtube channel though. I'd still say give some other outlets for venting a shot because I guarantee posting in forums such braincels, foreveralone, etc is doing you no favors.

You didn't have to, if I can offer advice to someone I will. I dislike seeing people waste their lives or at the very least not try to make the most of it. And despite my antagonistic shit posting I still want to see incels not be incels both for their sake and the sake of others, I'm harsher towards them because they're often harsh or malicious themselves as evidenced by Elliott Rodgers, the Toronto incident and seemingly this recent shooting. Seeing so many lives go to waste because of the actions of some pissed off entitled brat irritates the fuck out of me.

Hell, I wasn't even that antagonistic towards you and you still wanted to jog my nogging.

It's /r/drama it's what we do here, fam.

I'm 25 and I've missed on most things people consider normal. I'm not even whining, I'm just stating the facts. I just need to channel it into text. I make no mistake regarding what I am, I don't pretend to be someone I'm not.

Dude, 25 is very young, you'll be fine. You obviously know what to do.

Well you're acting like it's the end of the world, it's not. You obviously plan on improving yourself and if you stick with that plan you'll be golden. Will it take patience and some self-discipline? Obviously, but those things aren't nearly as difficult to learn as they sound

Okay stop. You've really outdone yourself with your fat trolling. I know I really just should reply with a sarcastic quip but both of this things (patience and self-discipline) I have. I'll say it again, I really need to have an excess of emotions to dump and that's about it. That doesn't mean I'm trying to make myself a victim or some shit.

Keep telling yourself that, you're an incel with a pathetic sense of entitlement that is ever so common.in losers like you. You have nothing but lame ass excuses for when it comes to improving yourself. All your problems are your own and you choose to do nothing about them, that's fucking pathetic.

Yeah it's /r/drama but you were, for some reason, buttblasted by me, you weren't trolling, no matter how you say otherwise.

You appear to be the only one buttblasted considering how much of a bitch you turned into the moment someone decided to not give you pity points. And like I said before, not trolling. Either stop being bitch and actually put effort into not being such a loser or stop whining about being bullied (lol) for being a whiny entitled brat on fucking reddit of all places.

Goodnight. 😘

A drama user pointing out how pathetic one's status is like an incel pointing out how a drama user's life is pathetic.

Whoa, where did all that snark go?

I still see it fam, ;)

Shhh bby is okay

Bussy is a reasonable punishment for incels.

Bussy is golden, take your hatred for bussy somewhere else.

Posts in /r/Drama

Has the nerve to talk about 'the social ladder'

[Posts in /r/Drama](#gt]

Has the nerve to talk about me talking about him talking about 'the social ladder'

you use meme arrows on reddit

i am automatically a chad compared to you

Dominate me, daddy

You've really outdone yourself with your fat trolling.

Yeah it's /r/drama but you were, for some reason, buttblasted by me, you weren't trolling, no matter how you say otherwise.

Which is it, fam? You seem to get quite upset when people point out the obvious about you which is weird considering how open you are about it. Stop making excuse after excuse as to why you choose not to improve yourself and actually work on doing that or continue to whine about it, either is fine with me.

Did you get cum in your eyes?

Not today, but maybe this weekend though.

Cause I was making no excuse but you keep seeing them. Yeah, I'm open about stuff but I was open because you were having that autistic drive to make me REEE, so I thought if I'd connect with you, it'd calm you down.

You have an excuse for why you can't excercise, an excuse for why you can't see a therapist, and even an excuse for whining online with that 'oh I just need a place to vent my emotions' bullshit.

Cause I was making no excuse but you keep seeing them. Yeah, I'm open about stuff but I was open because you were having that autistic drive to make me REEE, so I thought if I'd connect with you, it'd calm you down.

Instead, you doubled down on being "le trolle"

I'm bored, this is fun. Also not trolling.

And like I said before, not trolling.

You're the only one here claiming that I'm 'trolling', dude.

all because I pointed out that /r/justneckbeardthings are just a notch above those who post in /r/braincels. Acknowledging oneself and one's status doesn't mean "wallowing in self-pity".

I'm making fun of you because incels are fun to make fun of. The entire basis of 'incels' is the weird sense of entitlement and the woe-is-me attitude, also you post in ForeverAlone so yeah you're playing the pity card.

Kek, you absolutely got cum in your eyes already, because I explained.

Do you have an excuse for why you can't diet instead as well?

Yeah, they're expensive and I'm from a country where they're not so accessible.

Yeah, I did get you butthurt. Listen fella, you can do it too, okay? Just log on to one of your alts (you seem like a fella that actually has no proper social life to do so) and find a community of your own to dump...oh wait, that's right, you're already doing it in /r/drama

Man, you keep throwing butthurt around a lot, I'm starting to think you're projecting. It's okay though, I'd be mad at myself too if I managed to be so much of a fuckup that I ended up as an incel.

You saying that you're not trolling doesn't mean you aren't. The alternative is that you're actually retarded and your speech comprehension is lacking but I prefer to see good in people until I can't.

I've spoken nothing but the truth here. You can keep deflecting it away by claiming I'm trolling though if you want.

Cool. Then my assumption about you having some troubles of your own is correct, which kinda explains why you have violently exploded because of my post.

"I'm getting upset therefore he must be upset!"

Like I said whatever helps, dude. As long as you keep responding I'll keep pointing out that all of the pathetic aspects of your life are your own doing and that you can fix them anytime you want, it's all up to you. 😉

I assume you've scoured through my post history (since you're trash at argumentation) and saw the word "overweight". Well, you'll be happy to know that it's only been 2 BMI points, which I've already corrected and now maintain within the healthy weight range.

I didn't even know that about you, I just offered an alternative to exercising since you can't.

Let the games of "NO U NO U" recommence. I mean, I'm not the one who went haywire after the post saying that anti-X subs are usually filled with dregs of society just a notch above those they are mocking.

Bruh, you're not getting any special level of shit talking from me, I make fun of everyone the same exact way. You're not special, you're just another incel with the same responses.

Fine, then you are actually medically retarded. Would you like me to say that you're your mommy's special angel?

Could you? That'd be sweet.

Mmmmm, still the same broken record. Okay buddy, whatever floats your widdle boat.

All of the pathetic aspects of your life are your own doing and that you can fix them anytime you want, it's all up to you. 😉

You mean I caused my heart problems and it wasn't congenital? Does this mean if I think real hard, I'm going to be a millionaire?

Oh look the incel wants his life to be a deluded fantasy, shocking. So you're telling me that because you have a heart condition that you're incapable of maintaining a healthy lifestyle whatsoever? Or that you're incapable of finding and keeping a career path that you enjoy or makes decent money? Or do you have a convenient excuse for that also?

All of the pathetic aspects of your life are your own doing and you can fix them anytime you want, it's all up to you. 😉

Wipe that cum off, cause I said no such thing.

Then why bring up your heart condition? I was clearly referencing your inability to exercise which is obviously a part of leading a healthy lifestyle.

In theory, everything is possible, actions just increase chances of that probability.

And apparently you've either decided not to act on or are too inept to take those kind of actions, sad.

All of the pathetic aspects of your life are your own doing and you can fix them anytime you want, it's all up to you. 😉

yeah agree; reddit is prolific at forming communities devoted to mocking a group (r/iamverysmart etc) that end up behaving just a few notches less embarrassing than the group they mock

playground rules; you find the guy a little more pathetic than you and amplify that minor dominance

reddit is prolific at forming communities devoted to mocking a group (r/iamverysmart etc) that end up behaving just a few notches less embarrassing than the group they mock

that is literally this sub.

you just described 90% of this sub's acitivities, they just mock lots of groups instead of just one.

oh i know

I'm not going to claim that /r/drama isn't a retarded place where us retards can hang out, but "mocking lots of groups rather than just one" makes it qualitatively different.

Plus most of us are aware that we're not much or any better than the people we're mocking. At least I hope...

I'm not so sure anymore.

well i am aware, idk bout most other posters here.

Yes by mocking so many different groups, we are better than all of them.

We are worse than all those subs combined, but I guess at least most of us are self-aware about it unlike SRD and all the other awful meta subs.

less embarrassing That's where you're wrong kiddo

Every anti-X subreddit is always worse than X. Regardless of how terrible X is. X could be "Nazi vegan feminist bronies" and somehow the antireddit would be even more insufferable. I don't even know how they manage it honestly

84% of incels want the West wiped out.

BASED INCELS!

r/incels4mayocide

Commucels? Muslcels?

Not spreading the disease of white genes is just the first step to the mayocide.

I've said it before, but it's really funny that /r/Drama is now defending incels. Literally less than a year ago picking on them was the easiest way to get karma on this sub. I did it a bunch under a different username. Hell, I remember we forced them to go private like 3 times because the brigading from this sub got so heavy.

Maybe also the fact that /r/inceltears has become such a shithole. The same thing happened with /r/fuckthealtright, I agree with the sentiment but the sub makes me sadcringe. Even /r/beholdthemasterrace is going downhill. It's being taken over by people who yell at you for shit like "ableism" and "body shaming," and if you ban those things what even is the point of the sub?

Seems like sub's devoted to making fun of terrible people attract marginally less terrible people who need a group they can feel superior to.

It's like the exact opposite of 4chan. 4chan went to shit because edgelords were posting nazi shit and CP, then actual nazis and pedophiles showed up and ruined the party for everyone.

I think a huge mistake was forming /pol/ to try and "contain" the nazis. Putting all the racists in one place and letting them feed off of each others hatred and organize is always a terrible idea. And then eventually /pol/ became larger than the other subforums anyway.

Yeah, moot fucked up in a big way and I'm pretty sure he's aware of it. The idea of a 'containment board' is one of the stupidest ones to come out of the social media era. Yeah, let's just give a bunch of extremists a place where they can organize and direct potential recruits to within milliseconds. I'm sure they'll just politely stay there and won't bother anyone else. Why would they have a reason to leave? What could go wrong?

Let me let you in on a little secret. No one on /pol/ is actually white.

I wonder how many loads have been blown to the girl in the bear suit just because she's kinda cute and has correct political opinions.

Kinda cute? She's waifu-tier.

6/10 at best

And yet incels like me are supposed to have unobtainably high standards, wtf?

American meetups

not white

Mutts can't be white.

4chan didn't go to shit, it was never that good in the first place.

Don't talk shit about /u/

/uwu/

Say what you want about 4chan but I still don't see any "i don't like your opinion" arrows on that site.

They still use 'soft censorship' by flooding out any dissenting opinions with memes, thought-terminating cliches, shill accusations, etc. You're more likely to see a dissenting opinion on 4chan if it's there, but in /pol/ at least an echo chamber has been cultivated by being incredibly hostile towards anybody who is remotely left-leaning and flooding out and dismissing opposing opinions as soon as they appear. There's a reason why it became full of extremists to begin with. That doesn't happen in a place where there's a healthy exchange of ideas.

That's natural quite honestly, Moot may regret it but he had to have known deep down that /pol/ would never become a board for discussing ideas and instead would become a circlejerk. I must say though back in the day /pol/ culture was pretty funny, but now they seem to take themselves too seriously although I stopped reading threads there regularly in 2013.

he had to have known deep down that /pol/ would never become a board for discussing ideas and instead would become a circlejerk

He made it as a 'containment board', so he definitely wasn't expecting serious discussions, but I don't think he was remotely aware of how badly it would fuck up the website, or the influence that it would have irl. It'd be interesting to hear him reflect on his creation now that he's been removed from it for a few years.

Yeah I wonder who'd have to ask for him to open up about it? The Verge got an interview back with him the day after he announced he was selling the site, but the only interesting question they asked was on Gamergate. They should've hounded him over /pol/ because even then even if he was fresh from leaving he was bound to have some interesting things to say.

Yeah I wonder who'd have to ask for him to open up about it?

Good question. He probably wants to live out the rest of his life in relative peace, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's dodging interview requests.

The solution is easy - don't go there.

What is that a solution to?

Chambers are formed for a reason.

Yeah, because webmasters are stupid and believe that they solve a problem while instead they create a bigger one.

If you consider a website to be an echochamber, then don't go there. That place is obviously not for you. Chambers serve their reason.

What is that a solution to tho? Most people don't go into echo chambers they disagree with, and that doesn't make the echo chambers any less of an issue.

I wasn't talking about webmasters but communities said webmasters serve.

What of it?

Even so, there's a large difference between some edgy teenager calling you a leftist cuck shill and being dogpiled to the bottom of the comments, or being deplatformed by a moderator without even knowing it.

It's not a particularly large difference. One is less censorship than the other, but the results are the same. Plus /pol/ mods do warn and ban people who go there to "troll" with a moderate or leftist opinion. I was temp banned for making a thread pointing out that Trump wanted to change/end the first amendment with his 'libel law' comments during the election.

4chan Mods

Jeez they really did hit rock bottom didn't they.

Nah the thing is polyps can and will successfully derail a discussion if they don't like what's being said. It's effectively the same result.

They were literally banning all discussion on Zoe Quinn and the 5 guys thing. We really have Moot and 4chan to blame for Gamergate -_- If they hadn't been banning discussion on that nontroversy, then it would have never been able to explode like it did.

No, they rather flood it with reaction images and moldy memes when THOUGHTCRIMES happen.

There were always actual pedos on 4chan. If you wanna see what hardcore chan culture looks like, go to some of the smaller chans or textboards; they're absolutely crawling with pedos. The number of nazis definitely exploded thanks to stormfront astroturfing, tho.

go to some of the smaller chans or textboards

Thanks, but I'd rather not end up on a federal watchlist.

That's fair.

The real growth in /pol/ was around gamergate time and possibly the fappening also, this growth ties up with when /pol/ became the most popular board. But there was bound to be a channel for that resentment to coalesce because it had been growing in various downwardly mobile, subruban, small town and 'extra urban' areas in the US for decades and accelerated post 2008.

Your last bit about geography is super important for people to understand. The conservatism that morphs into the alt right isn't found in northern Wisconsin, it's found in Northeast Philadelphia.

The real growth in /pol/ was around gamergate time

That's true, but the reason why /pol/ was created was more or less because Stormfront was astroturfing 4chan hard and moot was motivated to create a "containment board" as a result. Naturally that gave them a place to organize and point potential recruits which lead to the problem we have today. Also, lol @ the fact that some random chick accidentally created a shit-ton of white nationalists because she slept around.

Agree, they created the rod that began to conduct the resentment in those downwardly mobile areas post 2008 and really got going with gamergate and then trump becoming an even bigger rod for that stuff.

Lol 4chan turned to shit long before that, when your average suburban preteen discovered the place after the media lied about it being an elite hacker clubhouse.

Anti-X subs always become worse than X subs

I saw the same thing with TiA and KiA. Normal people eventually get bored and then you're just left with the ideologues.

Lolno

lolyes

It's okay if you still like those subs. You don't need our permission m8.

Drama is an anti mayo sub, https://i.redd.it/cfl8l52kgq801.gif

Same thing with /r/justneckbeardthings. Filled to the brim with people that are barely less subhuman.

Plus the political crowd comes in and starts shaping those subs in a real way. The language policing is just part of that.

And /r/gamingcirclejerk

Gamingcirclejerk is on another level of pathetic. There's no visible hierarchy between the sub and it's target, just a bunch of dumb nerds.

PRAISE GERALDO !!!!

They might as well just rename that sub r/incelas

Honestly, any meta subreddit that is bases its content on criticizing someone else on the internet will go off the rails. They form an echo chamber and dismiss anyone saying "hey you are taking this a little to fair" as apologia for what they hate. An example is incel tears, something I like, but it has the same issue as cringeanarchy: people pushing an ideology. All the people who hate incels, but aren't lefties are downvoted for telling them they are wrong, while the same talking points are circlejerked around (usually by the same people).

Still, radical centrism means that sometimes you have to defend the bad guy.

Half of the time, to be precise.

Still, radical centrism means that sometimes you have to defend the bad guy.

You idiot, you absolute moron, there are no differencea between good and bad people. People who recognize some kind of difference are the drama.

Ah, another brace redditor in support of pedophilia.

The drama flows, and we follow it. Incels produce less drama than those attacking them by now.

The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.

-some racist

Shows our commitment to radical centralism.

I don't think we've had a shift in attitude so much as a shift in userbase, and now there are a lot more incel-friendly posters/regulars.

OUT OUT OUT BUILD A WALL REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

It's called the Dialectic, look it up

This isn’t some sort of hypocrisy - what’s changed is that the profile of incels has risen and now you have a lot of progressive groups who normally talk about empathy and inclusion and blah blah blah expressing extreme hostility towards an amorphous class of non-privileged individuals that you can’t really do anything about. And then you get fun “okay why is it okay to treat incels this when we get mad at people doing similar stuff towards the groups we normally defend” slapfights all over the place.

Basically, /r/drama would switch to “defending” anything if it ended up becoming a high-profile target of SJW hypocrisy.

What's really interesting is to see the way the sub splits over Palestine, because pro-Israel people use SJW tactics all the time (like that chick who got triggered by a Palestinian-American kid named Intifada).

b/c Palestinians suck

Tbh I’d be sympathetic to Palestine if it weren’t for those terrorists shooting rockets from in front of schools and hospitals knowing that Israel won’t shoot back.

Also peacefully protesting with molotovs

Elected terrorists.

pro-Israel people use SJW tactics all the time

One just replied to you doing that exact thing.

I'm actually gonna post the "Intifada" drama soon, snally-style. It was actually a pun on the student's name, not their real name, but the episode was still retarded.

Americans love Jews and hate muslims.

There are now quite a few incels posting here, and now that hating on incels is trendy we naturally must be contrarian. I never saw much value in picking on them to the degree that a lot of people do, tho. It's the epitome of 'punching down'. What a lot of them need is someone to talk to them, not a bunch of assholes validating their extremism by telling them that they're unlovable. They're easy to make fun of, but it's unethical and should only be done sparingly.

There are now quite a few incels posting here

Surely you meant "since forever" snally.

I do somewhat agree with everything else. It is ideal that we have empathy for incel, but given their hostility to the world that has wronged them, I find it a tough egg to crack. Hopefully they will get friends to accept them, or the parents to love them.

It's kinda hard to feel sympathy or empathy towards people who are so dead set on shooting themselves in the foot (and evidently other people as well).

I understand why people don't have empathy for them, and why they make fun of them (especially the people who are on the receiving end of their hatred), but I wish there were less people spending time making fun of them and more discussing what needs to be changed to deradicalize incels and prevent incel culture from spreading. It's just another symptom of social isolation in young men and the ease at which people can access extremist communities. I remember when this shit was restricted to thirty-somethings on the loveshy forums a decade ago. Now it's effecting teen boys and 20-somethings who may be late (or could have been average) bloomers and perpetuating their misery by leading them to believe that they're incels because they're unlovable, that women only date and marry 'chads' (which is just patently false given that the vast majority of men do end up in long-term relationships), and that no amount of improvement will ever make them more appealing. It's making men and boys who may just be a little shy or unfashionable believe that they're irredeemably repulsive and that there's no point in dating anyway because every woman is fucking a different 'chad' every week and as such is impure. It's horrible and pathetic. They're so easy to make fun of, but they're such miserable, self-hating assholes then it's not even worth it unless you're directly fighting with/targeted by them or pathetic yourself and want a confidence boost by denigrating the one group of people who is more pathetic than you. It would be much nicer if that energy were directed into a discussion about the growing social isolation of young men and how it can be prevented.

Snally, you're too pure for this place.

The mod we need, not the mod we deserve.

I agree.

Same goes with neckbeards and "niceguys". These subs on here like r/niceguys and r/justneckbeardthings are the equivalent of the school yard bullies picking on the weird kid.

Alot of these dudes just need some guidence, compassion, and someone to listen to their frustrations and given some constructive feedback. Not ridicule and alienation.

Pretty much. Berating people like them is completely self-serving. It pushes the targets further into extremist or other damaging communities and perpetuates the problems that the people berating them say they want solved.

Said this before and I'll say it again. The fact so many men exist that believe "being nice" is a unique trait they have, implying most men aren't nice, says a lot about society and how boys are raised.

As an incel: I like it. It's like an eternal golden braid of hatred, where the right and left feed off each other's hatred.

More like they're raised to believe most men aren't nice, and that bullshit is then reinforced by left-wing crazies and right-wing crazies alike.

Lmao what?

Most people, in most places, are in fact "nice."

You know what opens my asshole? How r/niceguys r/justneckbeardthings and r/inceltears think r/fatpeoplehate was the worst thing ever to be on this sight. It's hilarious how those subs think they're morally superior to fph when essentially all four of them are the same sub with different demographics.

Its bullying. Thats really what it all boils down to.

I think the problem with a lot of the young men who end up in these groups boils down to this: they feel like no one in modern society is rooting for them, our media and culture doesn't really have a positive message for them, and the only places they find encouragement or support are these horrible fringe groups like incels or the alt-right

It seems to boil down to that. If you ask somebody why they're alt-right then they'll usually say something along those lines and talk about how they're tired of people telling them to be ashamed of themselves because they're white males. Sadly the people who are the most concerned about these groups helped them grow.

You seem lkke a nice person, but tell me this. Why should people be nice to a community that lashes out at anyone that isn't part of their little group? I remember I went on the old incel subreddit before it was shut down. They made it prettt clear they didn't want to be talked to or helped. They called you a cuck, or said a chad was fucking your whore wife or something to that effect. Even "former incels" were met with hostility if they try to talk sense into these people. They're hellbent on wallowing in self pity and bringing everyone they can down with them.

Do these people really deserve sympathy?

Why should people be nice to a community that lashes out at anyone that isn't part of their little group?

You don't have to be nice to them, but the hostility towards them only reinforces their beliefs and makes them less likely to change. The best thing to do would be to just ignore them if you don't want to or don't know how to have a dialogue with them.

They made it prettt clear they didn't want to be talked to or helped. They called you a cuck, or said a chad was fucking your whore wife or something to that effect. Even "former incels" were met with hostility if they try to talk sense into these people.

They don't, but that's not an excuse to make fun of them unless they're engaging you outside of their subreddit. It actively harms the attempt to deradicalize incels or otherwise make the culture disappear. Plus of course they don't explicitly want help; nobody wants someone telling them that what they believe in is wrong. However, there are ways to have a dialogue with people like this that have the chance to deradicalize them in some cases. Ridiculing them and engaging with their insults is definitely not the way to do it.

They're hellbent on wallowing in self pity and bringing everyone they can down with them.

Do these people really deserve sympathy?

Definitely. Hateful as they may be, it comes from a place of deep suffering and self-hatred. They weren't born hateful. It formed over years of self-loathing and rejection with a lot of help from an ideology that's tailor-made to attract people like them. Not to mention that being able to sympathize with them can be a way to connect with them and have a dialogue that could cause them to reconsider what they believe. Otherwise, it reinforces their 'normies and chads think I'm subhuman and don't understand my suffering, guess I won't listen to them and stick with my group' mentality.

you're right. lots of them are just socially isolated young men who were found that toxic community and were brainwashed by it to have a fucked up view of the world and dating. more victims than anything.

Yeah, I've met a few teenage self-described "incels". They used to just be considered 'late bloomers', but now they're being sucked into an ideology that tells them that they're repulsive, and that women are repulsive, and encourages them to stop even trying. It's awful; instead of trying to develop social skills and at least waiting until college has passed to get worried, they're unintentionally creating a self-fulfilling prophecy that will only confirm their pathetic beliefs and sustain their misery. I suspect that some of the older incels are aware of this and take some sort of pleasure out of creating more of their own. It's awful.

yeah i relate cause i was a "late bloomer" too. jut wasn't very social in high school. i mean high school sucks dick for lots of people, it's not a big deal. i lost my virginity at 21, was dating girls and stuff the next few years, had a relationship with a girl i liked by 24.

if i had discovered some kind of "incel" community at ages 14-20, i would be fucked. i would have convinced myself it's impossible to ever get girls and all my bad luck was my looks and genetics and w/e, instead of just realizing i need more confidence and a group of friends who weren't douche bags to me, and then i'd easily meet girls and stuff.

it's some sad shit fam.

Yeah, I'm really glad communities like /pol/ or /r9k/ weren't around in my early-mid teens because I'm sure they would have really fucked me up. They prey on kids with mostly manageable problems and magnify those problems a hundredfold. Sad!

The dating game has radically changed in the last decade

This is really it, but it's mostly not the women...it's the men. Just browse the men on any dating site. Very few have any sense of their physical appearance or a healthy social life.

I suspect it's ever higher educational pressure and the resulting escapism that's destroying boy's social development. When everything in your life points to test scores and videogames, you sorta become a weirdo.

Problem is, society offers no working alternative to these communities. It's all fine and dandy to grandstand about how it's harmful and how something has to be done about it but nothing has been yet.

That's because everyone's too busy freaking out over them to even try to think of solutions. Doesn't mean that an effort shouldn't be made to talk about what the solutions may be, or to try and deradicalize the people who currently can be.

You may have noticed that dating game has radically changed in the last decade. And no, I'm not advocating for any edgy remedies /r/Braincels is famous for but it's really disingenuous to highlight the effect but reeeheeeeally miss the cause.

The game may have changed, but not to the point where every woman is banging a handful of guys like the manosphere likes to suggest. A good portion, if not most young women are more interested in long-term relationships than sleeping with as many attractive guys as they can. The creation of tindr hasn't suddenly turned every woman into a slut, it's just made it easier for women who aren't interested in long-term relationships to begin with to do what they do. And while sex work has become somewhat trendy, the women who are willing to do that sort of thing would probably not be relationship material to begin with. What things like tinder and social media do is make something that was already happening much more visible.

Sorry, snally, the fact that you're a woman and arguing the same empty grandstanding point kinda ruins my view of you as the elder and the keeper of the quality drama but probably because I'm personally invested in this.

How is this an empty grandstanding point?

Well, all discussion is boiled down to "safe" options and the rest is reeeeed away as misogynistic.

Some of the alternative options are pretty misogynistic, but I do agree that a lot of potential solutions are dismissed as such by tptb. Though I think a lot of the problems that need to be tacked aren't even exclusive to incels, given that social isolation and underdeveloped social skills are becoming more common and driving people into various dark places, including but not limited to inceldom, and given that the US especially is in such a state that so many young people are getting swept up in radicalism and cultist behavior. The incel community is just one flavor of this.

that women only date and marry 'chads'

Could also be that the fat/ugly ones don't really register. If you only look at the top 10% of course they're going to be dating better people than you.

This is a statement of no value because it could be referencing literally any protesting group.

Or any group focus on a characteristic

I'd hardly call mocking young white hetero males with shitty personalities "the epitome of 'punching down'".

They're about as pathetic as it gets, though. It's like jeering at somebody who's about to jump off a skyscraper. What's the fun in putting down someone who already hates themselves through and through?

True, they are about as pathetic as it gets but there's also entitlement there and a lack of personal responsibility.

That's why people need to constructively tell them they're not entitled rather than being dicks about it.

OK but what annoys me is that the right suddently becomes the bleeding of bleedingest hearts when it's young white men (not that i think incels are necessarily predominantly white, but that's the popular image) suffering. Like this shit about Jordan Peterson wringing his hands over the plight of the incels.

So the same people that advocate for the death penalty for retards and minors suddenly ask us for compassion for these idiots who's only disadvantage in life is being dry dick mother fuckers. But then they want to throw the book at poor kids that grew up in the ghetto when they fuck up and sling drugs or get fuck other kids up over gang shit. It's the hypocrisy that irks me.

Thing is that this shouldnt and isnt a right v left issue. There are incels of every background and is a symptom of a society that is ignoring the fact that men can have problems and issues too. While I am not saying that womens issues are not important, I will say that mens mental health issues definitely got thrown straight back into the freezer and not the back burner.

Let's not pretend that if was black kids shooting up schools anyone would give a shit about whether they were lonely, isolated, and unsuccessful in love and dating. People would be all over the place laughing at people attempting to humanize and empathize with them. You know, "he wuz a good boy, he dindu nuffin".

As far as men's issues go, I think we are making a mistake by accepting the incel's description of their problem. A lot of their behavior speaks to mental health issues as opposed to he need for sex. Ruminating about their problems, negative thinking, rejecting help and believing the are hideously ugly can all be symptoms of really severe depression. If we buy into the idea that they need sex for happiness and validation, what is the solution?

to be fair Jordan Peterson would probably more effectively help incels than he could help the traditionally oppressed minorities, the same way a western feminist might not be much help for women in the ME and South Asia even though those women are more oppressed.

Yeah, but what does making fun of them do to address that? All it does is make the actor feel better about themselves as they push the target deeper into the community. And again, what's the point of making fun of people who hate themselves so much, so long as those people aren't fighting with or making fun of you? Imo it's different when it comes to people like redpillers or MDE degenerates who make shit up about how successful they are and have an extremely inflated sense of self-importance, but incels don't even pretend that they aren't sad sacks of shit.

Jesus H Christ, when did you turn in to the serious-posting Sarah McLachlan for incels?

To feel good and to push aside feeling pathetic about yourself.

What a lot of them need is someone to talk to them

Man this is boring.

The reason the left can't help incels is that the left is fixated on the idea that they can make everyone happy. Statistically people who are romantically unsuccessful are less likely to be satisfied with their lives and if there were a way to correct that, such a correction would have been extremely useful to any society living anywhere at any point in recorded history (if you can make people happy, you can make them useful). It therefore would have been applied somewhere by now. The only thing that comes close is monasticism. It's necessary to engage with them in order to control them but as long as you maintain the lie that you can magically make them as happy as anyone else you're going to sabotage trust. One particularly silly point of pretense is the idea that being a failure makes them unhappy because they think they're entitled (to love), as though you can't be unhappy if you don't think you're entitled to stuff^1. This reinforces the lie that society can make them happy somehow. Ultimately you have to convince them to accept incomplete satisfaction. Currently we have an honesty gap.

All of this is ignoring the people who wouldn't be so unfuckable if they didn't participate in the incel subculture. That problem at least has a conventional solution. But no society has ever achieved a 0% rate of romantic failure or even close so you still have to admit the first problem.

But more to the point I was expecting more murderous rage in TFA. Frankly disappointed. Was that thread nuked by mods or something?

^{1 -- the alternative is: anger is a defense against sadness, and entitlement is a delusion created to make that defense possible}

What a lot of them need is someone to talk to them, not a bunch of assholes validating their extremism by telling them that they're unlovable.

Difference lies in self-definition though.

If I am an actual incel I am an outcast, I am lonely/angry, I am... lots of stuff, dunno, ask someone with a PhD in Incelology or whatever.

But as soon as they go online and actively participate in groups declaring themselves incels it's a different story. That's already the deep end of the pool and not "I can intervene" territory anymore.

And since when is creating unnecessary drama by picking on easy targets unethical on r/drama?

I agree with you, I'm just surprised to see /r/Drama being ethical.

People thought taking to Chris Chan would work, too.

you probably aren't even familiar with chris chan's history. i watched a fkn 10 part documentary on it. no one ever really "talked" to him to try to help him. literally almost everyone that interacted with him was fucking with him for internet lolz. some girls pretended to like him and be in internet relationships with him for extended periods and groups of trolls would fuck with him just to post it on various sites and document his sperg outs.

the kid was literally internet bullied until he became a tranny.

Some people with problems like these are irredeemable, and many aren't. The fact that some aren't doesn't negate the fact that ridiculing all of them will prevent the ones who can be helped from seeking it.

Exactly telling them "you're a piece of shit" is what they expect you to do, so if you really wanna fuck with them, tell them they're worth something.

It's radical centrism. Incels used to be some of the craziest people on the site but now that they've got drama pointed at them defending them is suddenly a dramatic act.

Incels are the worst of the males. They need to be first in the upcoming Manocide.

You start, sure others will follow in remembrance

We're not defending incels. After all, /r/IncelTears is full of virgins.

I suppose there is only so many times you can kick a mangy dog before you feel sorry for it.

Has everyone else changed?

Because I am still 100% pro bullying

Yeah, but making such excessive fun of incels right now would basically be kicking them while they're down. The biggest drama has already happened, there's more drama to be had by making fun of the IncelTears types.

intersting fact about Elliot Rodger

his parents were rich, real rich, and sent him to the very best therapists money can buy. HIs last therapist was a famous psychiatrist to the stars. Elliot was seeing him regualarly but when the Doc suggested meds Elliot lost it and refused to see him anymore and then went on a shooting spree

so when people say "we just need more mental health bla bla" I mean...not really. This dude had the best mental health in the world and still he went off.

His dad worked on the Hunger Games, and you can find pics of them both at various formal events for the film.

yeah his family was rich well connected in hollywood

its shows this is not a "oh if only people would get therapy/meds" problem

Peoplebkeep pushing how much bank his parents had, but like the dude lost his shit over $300 dollar sun glasses his grandma gave him and lived in a shitty apartment with 2 other people. He doesn't seem that rich.

the point is he had the best mental health care money could buy

so saying 'mental health OMG!' as some kind of solution to this problem is not realistic

People who think counseling is a silver bullet for mental health issues has never been to a counselor.

If you could sit and talk to someone for an hour a week and magically have your shit together, everyone would be in counseling.

For counseling to even work, there has to be an active desire and effort to make changes as well. Mental healthcare is still abysmal in the US, but in a lot of these mass shooting cases probably the only thing that a counselor could have done (unless the shooter had gotten early intervention and didn't have the opportunity to transform into someone that deranged) is call the police upon hearing about their violent ideations. One of the mid 20th-century presidents made it near impossible to forcibly institutionalize somebody or make them take psychiatric medications, which is understandable given the history of psychiatric institutions, but one of the consequences is that people like mass shooters can decide not to try and improve their mental health.

Tay-Tay appropriates trans culture.

The Queen of /r/drama doesn't have to appropriate anything

The situation wasnt that simple. He WAS rich, but his family lost most of it when Peter Rodger went and made that shitty documentary.

There's also this thing called "raising awareness".

???

what do you mean?

be that as it may, thats not the root problem is mass shootings.

the root problem of mass shootings is that thots need to be fucking the lower tier men more often.

IMO psychotherapy is pseudoscience. Some people need meds, for others we don't have the meds for whatever shits wrong with them yet unfortunately. Just sitting there and talking to them is a placebo.

It's like going to the chiropractor for your brain.

IMO psychotherapy is pseudoscience

No it's not. Even contemporary psychodyamics and humanistic therapy is grounded in research. In the case of CBT and DBT, there's a shitton of evidence that it does what it's supposed to do. The problem is that it takes effort on the part of the client to make changes to their lives based upon what they learn in therapy. If somebody isn't willing to put the effort in, or if they chose a therapist or theraputic technique that isn't great for them/their problems, then it's not going to help. A lot of people seem to go to therapy expecting that it's as easy as taking a pill and all of their problems will go away without any effort on their part, and when they don't put that effort in and don't get any results then they wave therapy off as bullshit. Unfortunately when you're dealing with abnormal behavior and/or thought patterns then it's not that easy. Especially if you've got some really big problems like BPD or agoraphobia.

it's never been properly been tested and shown to do any good.

That's straight-up bullshit. It would take you like 10 seconds to see that it isn't true. Where did you even hear that?

Nah it is just indoctrination/brain washing. That is why they always have some many problems with the really intelligent out-there types like the unabomber. They can see through the assumptions and understand the most of psychotherapy is just promoting an ignorance is bliss/ conform or be othered mindset.

you sound like an edgy teenager

Let me ask you a question: do you beleive in evolution?

If a a member of a species has been excluded from the group and will be denied the ability to mate, isn't in his biological and evolutionary best interest to try and use either violence or trickery to spread his genes.

Huh, so when psychiatrists call evolutionary sound strategies "crazy, you know it is all bullshit.

you sound like an edgy teenager

I am actually a super advanced edgy tween fuckboi

Worse: he's a scientologists.

you must be absolutely full of thetans to come to that absurd conclusion.

First the incels

Then the MDEgenerates

After that the CTH secret police

Now we have Scientologists

Therapy sounds like those weight loss accessories that work be when exercising.

He should have been locked up and forced to take his meds.

Outpatient isn’t right for everyone, check with your doctor if Inpatient is right for you.

Yeah, some people should be institutionalised for the betterment of the rest of society.

Therapist arn't miracle workers, you have to admit you have a problem and be wiling to work at it.

What do all these shooter have in common? Hmmm...

What?

They were all wearing shoes

they do need mental health treatment, but not because they are "bullied" or "victimized" or whatever. incels, mass shooters, etc. are all pathological narcissists and megalomaniacs that desire attention and notoriety, not real justice. they are the same as the chads and stacies they complain about. the media's obsession with plastering terrorists' faces everywhere as well as the creation of internet hugboxes and the fact that parents aren't allowed to tell their children to suck it up anymore leads to a greater prevalence of these parasitic types of people.

It wont stop all of them but it could stop a lot of them. Like Nick Cruz might have been stopped if someone would have gotten him help.

All I'm getting from this is that we should bring back lobotomies.

Or gassing.

therapy is a racket for the jews.

The Irony goes even deeper when you realize that the two women he killed were Tri Deltas.

I mean no disrespect to Tri Delts. It’s a lovely group. But they’re not exactly the hot blonde sex-bombs Elliot lusted after. From what I hear they tend to be the more adorkable type.

Of course, this guy knows nothing about college or the Greek system.

Lol, where I went the tri-delts were the funnest sorority on campus. Every Greek letter organization has a different reputation from school to school, except for (((AEPi))) of course.

Delta Delta Delta has a certain reputation... remember the SNL skit from the 90s? (Delta Delta Delta, can I help ya help ya help ya, with your belta belta belta?)

https://www.hulu.com/watch/281955

The tri-delts in Central Californian schools are the absolute bottom of the barrel tho.

Of course, this guy knows nothing about college or the Greek system.

lmao were TriDelts the only "sorority" girl you were ever able to pull? They're like, a step above AOPi

every fraternity and sorority chapter is literally exactly the same

Eliot Rogers was a closeted homosexual who hated women because he wasn’t attracted to them and thought that he should be. Therefore it was white mens fault that women didn’t want to sleep with him.

Just like the mods at /r/Hapas

Wait, is this real？

Sure. Why not?

Therefore it was white mens fault that women didn’t want to sleep with him.

You're joking right?

his entire manifesto is about non-white people being inferior. He was mad because he supposedly didn't get the privilege that his half-whiteness deserved

Nah. Read between the lines. He was closeted.

that's not the part I was disputing

Sooo... how long until Black Mirror's "Hated in The Nation" episode becomes a reality and thousands of people are killed by a swarm of murder-drones built by a disgruntled university student? Cuz, you know, I'm kinda sorta just sitting here waiting for this to happen.

Unless the betas rise up first! 🙀

how long

Not soon enough.

role modelling may help turn some of these broken, angry people around and guide them in the direction of better attitudes and a better future.

/u/BulbousOar Teach me, Senpai.

I don't understand how people blame it all on the individual. There are many intertwining elements at play that make people desperate enough to go on a killing spree.

Be it generic make up. Not their fault.

Bad upbringing. Not their fault.

Social standards they don't meet. Not their fault.

People do fucked up shit for more reasons than just American interventionism.

people blame it on whatever they want to blame it on. Usually this has an emotional motive, or a rational motive.

that's really all

Who actually unironically discusses the incel menace? I refuse to believe those are real people.

Did you ever hear of “NPC Theory” ?Im starting to think it’s real. These people have to be just a few pixels and lines of source code. No way can they be real. They just can’t!

They’re looking for „Die Endlösung“. Everything sounds more dangerous in Deutsch.

That subreddit has become such a joke now. It started out with mocking all the sick and vile things Incels say but now has deteriorated into a “shitting on ugly dudes circle-jerk”

I mean, I just feel bad for them man. Imagine being a 5’5 unattractive guy who lacks social skills and is mentally depressed. It’s terrible and they need help.

One of my close friends is Incel and it absolutely makes me so sad seeing his state of affairs. Why the hell would you make fun of these people? They’re fucking lonely, insecure, ugly and depressed virgins

Here to represent my people!

Such a hateful sub

wow, 16 people compared to the millions of kebab murders.

It’s just an excuse for these people to bully lonely White Men. They associate being an Incel with being a white guy. That is what is triggering their blood lust.

Calm down mayo.

I’m not wrong though. These people hate Whitey

No one cares tho.

They will when they are on the receiving end of the Incel Menace. It’s not a good idea to Bully disenfranchised lonely men. Even if they are White

Go back to r/The_Donald.

Oh God........You people are mentally fucking retarded. That is the standard comeback when you scums don’t have a response. How do you even function in the real world? YOU SHOULD taKe care of YOURSELF

LOL virgin.

Oh looks it’s a single bitter Liberal woman using “The arguing with holes argument”.

are you retarded?

You realize how pathetic “The arguing with jokes tactic” makes you look don’t you?

are you lost?

One day they will learn your true power and they will rue the day they bullied you!

Fuck the Matriarchy!!!!!

Its okay to have standards that are too high, poor social skills, and not try hard enough to get laid. Please don't shoot up my school.

I know it’s OK. I’m going to be your new Massa after Sex Communism is put into place faggot. You are going to have The Dreaded Incel Menace getting up in your Bussy day and night! Then I will share you with my buddies on vidya night! Can’t wait

MozzerDozzer | 4000 karma in /r/Braincels

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

These people scream #NotAllMuslims after every single Muslim Terrorists attack but demand the bullying and torment of all lonely Western Men because of one incel attack.

I will never understand the reddit community's obsession with "incels".

Can't dodge the Rodge

i'm enjoying the really long and nuanced discussion that two connoisseurs of the supreme gentlemen are engaging in. truly an interesting reflection.