Hey, will True Socialism™ work this time? Surely you people will be smart and pure enough to implement it correctly this time right? Of course, even if you did succeed, market forces would eventually assert themselves and you'd be back to reeeeeeing about muh kkkkapitalistzzz.
These people can't even get jobs or support themselves but for some reason they think they can organize some major uprising and bring the most powerful nation the world has ever seen to its knees.
the US is definitely the most powerful. Which actually makes it more scary that the most powerful military in the world is commanded by a person elected by cultists and sister fucking cletuses.
I mean, the modern US military could easily destroy any other force in history sans cold war nuclear annihilation. I think that qualifies it as most powerful.
Eh, I'm thinking more in terms of power relative to the other contemporary societies. Any country now with modern military technology could obliterate past empires.
u/CoolDude1564, would you care to come over here for a second? I'd like to interview you on how you feel like being part of what eventually will lead to r/LateStageCapitalism being blocked from the front page like r/The_Donald.
u/CoolDude1564, are you aware that when LSC is inevitably banned from the front page like TD, it will be because of comments like this one you made today? Tell us how you feel about this. Also, keep yourself safe.
Hate to say this, but I think Reddit’s been pitching into left field too long for anyone to ever block LSC. Site’s a haven for retarded Marxists at this point
u/dessalines, aka the guy who went to a front page submission with 20k+ upvotes about how unions were invented to stop violence between the classes or some shit, stickied it, flaired it with the phrase "seize the means", and wrote a comment under it calling for (and attempting to justify) an armed communist revolution. I'm actually suprised that you don't know about this, especially considering that the title of the post that is being linked to here literally starts with "since the reddit admins decided to ban one of our mods".
Please agitate, educate, organize, arm up and join socialist organizations in your city. ... Community defense through mass armament of workers has and always will be a vital part of settling the score between labor and capital.
Sounds to me like he just wants people to join his silly gun club and have a well regulated militia.
Literally the paragraph after he talks about an armed struggle, and after that he mentions how are individual violence does nothing, so you should organise as a group instead.
history has shown, from the Haitian, Cuban, Russian, French, and Chinese revolutions, to the independence struggles of Vietnam and Algeria, to the bloody history of labor struggles in the US no ruling class has ever given up power without armed struggle.
He talks about armed struggles that have happened in the past. What's wrong with talking about history?
solitary acts of violence achieve nothing; mass dispossession of capitalists and landlords to serve human needs rather than private profit is the goal we should be striving for.
It shouldn't imply that he is calling for group violence by denouncing solitary violence.
reddit is a haven for extremists of all stripes, because it's the largest and most normie-friendly site left that pretends to any sort of techno-libertarian ideals of "open discourse" or whatever. it's a lot more restrictive than it used to be, sure, but you dont see @jack or the Zucc openly saying "racism is allowed on our website." a site that actually "pitched left" would not have subs like t_d or braincels, and likewise one that "pitched right" wouldnt put up with lsc or r/@. any given controversial frontpage thread will be full of massively upvoted left or right talking points depending on whos priors it confirms, and this pattern persists as subs get smaller and more ideologically homogeneous. it only seems like it swings one way or the other if youre an outrage addict or otherwise prone to confirmation bias.
Wait what? The revolution of 1917 wasn’t like a holocaust. It would be like saying “Execute order 1776.” Just the year a civil war occurred. The February revolution didn’t even reform the government all that much, just transferred power from the tsar to the already-existing (though powerless) Duma. The October revolution ended the Duma and put another provisional government in place. 1917 was not a year anyone (except maybe the Tsar) would find all that offensive. If they talked about Holodomr that would be one thing but 1917? Really?
Why is the correlation between impractical fringe political belief and people who say things like "open your eyes", "wake up", and "saying the truth" exactly 1?
LSC is literally one of the least racist subreddits I've ever seen. And what "impractical fringe political belief" are you talking about? That's exactly what voting is. No one gives a rat's ass about your vote
LSC is literally one of the least racist subreddits I've ever seen
You just used the word "bl--k" even though I told you not to. That's terrible, dude.
Agree or disagree:
As Westerners, we live in the most prosperous, safe and advanced era in human history. The sum total of all human knowledge is available at our fingertips and even the poorest of the poor have access to it.
The poor in North America consume more calories and more red meat than the rich, likely the first time this has ever been the case.
Opportunities to choose your surroundings (either dense high-tech city living or intentional community organic farm living) are endless.
The modern West (with few exceptions) produces the happiest, healthiest, most productive, safest and most opportunity-filled societies.
All of the modern West runs off capitalism and democracy (hurr voting bad hurr durr)
Just because 100% of people don't own their own organic co-op is no reason to decry the entire system as unjust and evil
Disagreeing with any of the above makes you look retarded to average and normal people, hence your fringe impractical political beliefs.
1) The western world has gotten where it is by exploiting the rest of the planet, years of imperialism and exploitation of individuals desperate enough to slave themselves away. Much of the "prosperity" is also owed to public funded research and communal efforts.
2) Never heard this before and not sure how it justifies 1/7 Americans relying on food banks despite living in a post-scarcity world, or there being more vacant homes than there are homeless people
3) What does this have to do with anything? And are you aware that people today have less free time than medieval peasants did? So much "freedom", wow. As long as you slave away.
4) See point 1. The modern western world is the most exploitative and power-hungry in human history. But again, I don't see what this even has to do with anything. When did I say eastern countries are better than the west? Even if I did say that (which I did not), what does this have to do with anything?
5) If you think democracy truly exists you're delusional. Look up "oligarchy". That's what we have. I know your narcissist brain might find this hard to accept, but your opinion doesn't mean jack-shit when it comes to politics. Voting does not and will not change a thing. Deep down you know it's true. When has any vote you've ever made, mattered? Ever?
6) ?????
7) Well I'm glad you got that off your chest. You continue to waste your time on votes that are about as meaningful as the shit I took last night, and the rest of us can continue to do something else with that time, okay? I have better things to do than waste my time on you and I'm sure you have better things to do than waste your time on me (such as voting, lmao)
Obviously we aren't going to agree and you are going to spend the next 15 years of your life screaming about how awful and evil everything is (and alienating the normal people around you who would otherwise add so much richness and value to your life) instead of realizing how amazing everything is, but I would like to respond to this really popular argument
You continue to waste your time on votes that are about as meaningful as the shit I took last night, and the rest of us can continue to do something else with that time, okay?
My polling place is a 2 minute drive away from my house. It takes me more time to run to the grocery store (5 minutes away) and buy some fair trade coffee than it does to vote. Why is it socialists and ancaps seem to think that voting is like a trek over a mountain pass that takes weeks and weeks to accomplish?
My polling place is a 2 minute drive away from my house. It takes me more time to run to the grocery store (5 minutes away) and buy some fair trade coffee than it does to vote. Why is it socialists and ancaps seem to think that voting is like a trek over a mountain pass that takes weeks and weeks to accomplish?
It would also take me like 2 minutes to drive in a circle around the block I live in and them come back home. But I'm not going to do it. Why? Because it's a fruitless 2 minutes. "It doesn't take long" isn't enough justification to do something pointless. You should absolutely have the right to do it if you want but please don't expect the rest of us to join in on the delusion ("my voice matters! Yay!"), that's all we ask.
Like put it this way. Imagine if a religious person (assuming you're atheist, that is,) told you to spend 2 minutes praying. You're not going to do it since it has no benefit. Just because it doesn't take long doesn't mean it's suddenly a good usage of your time.
To people that support communism, yes. Socialism would be a stepping stone. Just like to Karl Marx Capitalism was a stepping stone to socialism, that doesn't mean supporting capitalism automatically means you support socialism too.
Does supporting the former automatically require that you support the latter too?
Are you being retarded in a pseudo-deep way? If our eyes aren't real then how mirrors are real way?
No, supporting Capitalism doesn't require that you support Socialism at all. Fuck.
Socialism-->Communism
Same question
From what I know, Karl Marx's idea was that once Capitalism has prepared the material base we can switch to Socialism, and then almost immediately to Communism, but nobody knows what economic relationships will be under Communism, that's like the entire point, we know that Socialism is worker-owned means of production while still using money and stuff, and Communism is the Post-Singularity thing.
As a deeply autistic person who routinely does basic math to discover how much of my life I've wasted doing mundane things (shaving, wiping my ass, sitting at traffic lights), adding 2 minutes to my life once every 2 years is the lowest possible tier of time wasting imaginable.
Dude my polling place is staffed to the brim with MILF-y middle class types. Now if I weren't a deeply deeply closeted gay man, that'd be reason enough to show up for 5 minutes.
Its why I've wired the entire place with digital explosives. Eventually, every /r/drama poster's computer will burst forth with party parrots. Anime will be real, in the real world.
The western world has gotten where it is by exploiting the rest of the planet
Real talk: if the entire continent of Africa suddenly disappears and is replaced by a uniform ocean, how do you think, would my taxes and the prices of stuff I usually buy go up or down?
OK, we are talking about Subsaharan Africa. We lose on some pointless diamonds and some rare earth metals that the Chinese already produce. But, importantly, we don't lose any sort of higher level production.
It's OK to say that all human beings deserve good outcomes, regardless of their ability to contribute to good outcomes here and now or even in principle.
It's NOT OK to avoid making that argument because it's hard to prove, and instead make a false argument that the Western civilization must share its goods not because that's a moral imperative, but because those goods are stolen from the third-world countries actually. Which they are not, they are produced in Western countries because of Western technology and social mechanisms.
Because if you really buy into that bullshit then divesting from Africa seems like a good idea, but it would be disastrous for Africa. If we build a wall around Subsaharan Africa to prevent us from "imperialistically exploiting" them, that would be really really bad for them.
We have to realize that it's possible to be "imperialistic" and fuck other people's stuff up, and at the same time that we don't actually derive our wealth from it, that we make our wealth ourselves and should teach them how to make wealth efficiently.
make a false argument that the Western civilization must share its goods
I would never make that argument. I believe all countries should be able to charge a fair price for goods. The United States provides humanitarian aide to many countries. I think this is unfair to American workers and should not continue.
If we build a wall around Subsaharan Africa to prevent us from "imperialistically exploiting" them, that would be really really bad for them.
It's much easier than that. All we would have to do is to stop charitably donating our weapons to be used by dictatorships in Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Yemen, Somalia, Libya, I could go on... The trick would be getting China, France, U.K., and India to pull out as well.
This would improve poverty in Africa because the dictatorships that forcibly protect the land holdings of foreign companies would be overthrown by the populations, and production of resources would fall under community control.
we make our wealth ourselves and should teach them how to make wealth efficiently.
We shouldn't waist our time and tax dollars teaching them anything. They are perfectly capable of deciding how they want to live. They already have access to virtually any scientific discovery the west has made.
m8, I don't give a shit about you and whatever the other faggot is going on about, I just want to know if whatever the hell that website is actually has the thing.
Well, I was responding to the person who was making that argument:
The western world has gotten where it is by exploiting the rest of the planet, years of imperialism and exploitation of individuals desperate enough to slave themselves away.
All I'm saying that it's the wrong way to look at it. The West has railroads and hospitals and stuff like that not because we stole it from Africans' ancestors. Imperialism and even slavery was a side dish, nice but not necessary for the success.
That other guy is entitled to his opinion, but I wouldn't have phrased it the way he did.
Slavery wasn't necessary for the success of west, but it was necessary for the success of some individuals who owned slaves.
Likewise, imperialism wasn't necessary for the west, but it was necessary for imperialists.
If another culture wants a railroad they can build one themselves. It's better to have no railroads, than a railroad that was built only to serve the interests of a foreign entity.
Likewise, if a community wants to adopt western medicine, they should have access to the same materials that everyone has access to. America shouldn't build a hospital for them.
I'm gonna ignore the part where you say imperialism and slavery were nice, but I agree with the rest.
The western world has gotten where it is by exploiting the rest of the planet, years of imperialism and exploitation of individuals desperate enough to slave themselves away. Much of the "prosperity" is also owed to public funded research and communal efforts.
Spoiler alert: In a world with many races and tribes the one that wins over the others gets to prosper. I know shocking. Now apply that to 17-20th century time frame.
The rest of your points aren't even worth addressing. Your western hate boner is blinding you, as you write these comments from devices and technologies invented by western people. If the tree is poisonous then so shall be the fruit wouldn't you agree?
And the rest of the world continues to be better off every decade due to things like liberalized economies, free trade, increased migration, emancipation of women, etc. There are fewer poor people than there have ever been. Liberalism
works and that’s not even up for debate anymore.
You know you guys sound exactly the same as the Nazi assholes you supposedly hate? I guess the only real difference is that the commies killed way more people than the Nazis did.
You know you guys sound exactly the same as the Nazi assholes you supposedly hate?
How? Being against wage theft, sweatshop labor, union busting, the hoarding of half the planet's wealth in the hands of less than ten people, homelessness and imperialism sounds like Nazism to you?
I guess the only real difference is that the commies killed way more people than the Nazis did.
Capitalism continues to kill more than any other system could dream of. But of course "but that doesn't count because reasons"
In Communist regimes people are forced to work for free or for very little, and are imprisoned or outright killed for resisting.
sweatshop labor
The people worked to death in Soviet Russia would see sweatshops as a luxury environment.
union busting
Anyone even trying to resist the state's labour practices in Soviet Russia, Communist China, Cuba etc would be jailed or would be killed, probably their families too.
the hoarding of half the planet's wealth in the hands of less than ten people
Stalin, Mao, Castro and other Communist leaders lived like kings whilst their people starved. This is happening in Venezuela, right now.
imperialism
Another hobby of Communist nations. Say what you want about the US, at least they didn't start forcing the Vietnamese to subscribe to their ideology or try to permanently claim the country as their territory as Russia and China have done (and are still doing).
Capitalism continues to kill more than any other system could dream of.
Nobody kills people in the name of capitalism. Capitalism isn't an ideology.
There is a path forward, one in which a tiny ruling class don't exploit everybody, one where solidarity is prized over individualism, one where workers join together and make democratic decisions together, and one where we don't wreck the environment.
I take it these people aren't working on their MsC in history.
History also shows that when these imporvished and opressed masses take over it doesn't take more than a decade before they do the exact same thing their opressors did.
You don't, the only times in history when power truly shifted to the working masses as a whole was during economic shortages of labor, such as post-Black Death Europe. You want worker control of production? Hand out condoms but not food.
My response will be here because I have no desire to comment on that cancerous sub. Never have, never will.
Sweeping generalizations. I’m actually SocDem, I come here because I align more with these values than with the (neo)libs elsewhere
I’m outraged at what’s happening with this situation because of the blatant double standards
Remind me when we came to be living in a socialist society? When we are, charity WON’T be necessary. As long as we’re forced to participate in late stage capitalism, I’ll continue my duty by donating what I can to those who need it more than me and to causes that will need those funds to further the cause. SAYING SOCIALISM ELIMINATES THE NEED FOR CHARITY IS NOT A COP OUT TO NOT GIVE WHEN NOT UNDER A SOCIALIST SYSTEM
Fuck you.
Edit: 5. All of these points except for #1 (but especially #4) are so obvious it’s honestly shocking it was necessary to say them.
so /u/poncotello doesn't want to have an argument in any place where he can't simply get the disagreeing party banned. That's pretty authentically socialist.
No one is arguing that it wouldn't take a violent rebellion to put communism into place, what we're saying is that the inevitable result is a dictatorship 10 times worse than whatever it replaced.
Also lol succdem, so you basically mean you're a blue dog democrat.
The admin dessalines was banned from reddit for a previous comment that, instead of Star Wars characters and clips, had references to real people and documents.
Gas the Gungans, Separatist War now! We must secure a future for Mandalorian and Mandalorian children. Seize the means of production from the greedy Hutts!
148 comments
1 SnapshillBot 2018-05-25
This, but unironically.
Snapshots:
I am a bot. (Info / Contact)
1 Phantom_Engineer 2018-05-25
Snap is a tankie now.
1 Starship_Litterbox_C 2018-05-25
This, and yes, unironically
1 Starship_Litterbox_C 2018-05-25
When having food and shelter and internet access gets boring so you tell the xirs to buy a gun
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
Or when the anxiety of watching your fellow xirs lose those things and fearing you might be next becomes to great.
1 cheeZetoastee 2018-05-25
Oh, look. An actual tard!
Hey, will True Socialism™ work this time? Surely you people will be smart and pure enough to implement it correctly this time right? Of course, even if you did succeed, market forces would eventually assert themselves and you'd be back to reeeeeeing about muh kkkkapitalistzzz.
1 Burnnoticelover 2018-05-25
“Comrade, is this Full Communism?”
“Nah, things are gonna get much worse.”
1 Curlgradphi 2018-05-25
How to know somebody doesn't actually know what a no true Scotsman is.
1 I_Dream_of_Outremer 2018-05-25
Nigga is this your first day on the internet or what
They were making a reference to the fact that tankies constantly say the USSR, etc "wasn't true socialism"
1 Curlgradphi 2018-05-25
Yeah, a sarcastic reference.
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
The only reason blankism has any problems in the first place is because it's crony blankism, not pure blankism.
1 Beaton_D_Whitewomen 2018-05-25
first they came for the
farrrrrrrrrrrrt
1 Starship_Litterbox_C 2018-05-25
Nah
1 LemonScore 2018-05-25
Yes, being 99.99% of the populace during a Communist revolution is pretty terrifying.
1 cheeZetoastee 2018-05-25
/u/ TheWalkingPrecariat
Get real, we all know you won't organize shit.
1 Fletch71011 2018-05-25
These people can't even get jobs or support themselves but for some reason they think they can organize some major uprising and bring the most powerful nation the world has ever seen to its knees.
1 ahbslldud 2018-05-25
Hmmm.
1 mcslibbin 2018-05-25
burgerhistory
1 I_Dream_of_Outremer 2018-05-25
Someone's jelly
1 ahbslldud 2018-05-25
I am (unfortunately) American.
1 I_Dream_of_Outremer 2018-05-25
Y no patriotism tho my countryman
1 ahbslldud 2018-05-25
Have you seen us? Good lord.
1 Zizac 2018-05-25
the US is definitely the most powerful. Which actually makes it more scary that the most powerful military in the world is commanded by a person elected by cultists and sister fucking cletuses.
1 ahbslldud 2018-05-25
The most powerful currently, maybe, but the most powerful in history? Naw, son.
1 Zizac 2018-05-25
I mean, the modern US military could easily destroy any other force in history sans cold war nuclear annihilation. I think that qualifies it as most powerful.
1 ahbslldud 2018-05-25
Eh, I'm thinking more in terms of power relative to the other contemporary societies. Any country now with modern military technology could obliterate past empires.
1 I_Dream_of_Outremer 2018-05-25
Don't start off your shit with "I mean"
1 Zizac 2018-05-25
I mean, you should go jump off a skyscraper.
1 I_Dream_of_Outremer 2018-05-25
It's almost like I'm on it fam
1 im-a-koala 2018-05-25
I'm sure the current US military could crush ancient Rome's army pretty easily tho.
1 911roofer 2018-05-25
Trump will fix that, soon enough...
1 Mother_Jabubu 2018-05-25
The working class absolutely despises them
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
Hence you have nothing to worry about.
1 aef823 2018-05-25
Has anyone on reddit ever organized anything not retarded anyways?
1 Dunkcity239 2018-05-25
I used reddit to sell some old vidya and manga. It was retarded. But i got paid
1 ChipChippersonAMA 2018-05-25
/u/TheWalkingPrecariat instead of going on Reddit you should watch the funny fox tv show Family Man, check out the sub! /r/familyman
1 32624647 2018-05-25
u/CoolDude1564, would you care to come over here for a second? I'd like to interview you on how you feel like being part of what eventually will lead to r/LateStageCapitalism being blocked from the front page like r/The_Donald.
1 32624647 2018-05-25
u/CoolDude1564, are you aware that when LSC is inevitably banned from the front page like TD, it will be because of comments like this one you made today? Tell us how you feel about this. Also, keep yourself safe.
1 subliiime4668 2018-05-25
Hate to say this, but I think Reddit’s been pitching into left field too long for anyone to ever block LSC. Site’s a haven for retarded Marxists at this point
1 32624647 2018-05-25
They literally just banned one of the mods of that sub
1 the_pitizen 2018-05-25
Who? And for what?
1 32624647 2018-05-25
u/dessalines, aka the guy who went to a front page submission with 20k+ upvotes about how unions were invented to stop violence between the classes or some shit, stickied it, flaired it with the phrase "seize the means", and wrote a comment under it calling for (and attempting to justify) an armed communist revolution. I'm actually suprised that you don't know about this, especially considering that the title of the post that is being linked to here literally starts with "since the reddit admins decided to ban one of our mods".
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
Where in that comment did he suggest that anybody engage in armed communist revolution?
1 Lord_Giggles 2018-05-25
You don't actually care, but here http://archive.is/2nb0I
Third paragraph from the bottom and onwards are pretty clearly calling for armed revolution.
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
Sounds to me like he just wants people to join his silly gun club and have a well regulated militia.
1 Lord_Giggles 2018-05-25
Literally the paragraph after he talks about an armed struggle, and after that he mentions how are individual violence does nothing, so you should organise as a group instead.
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
He talks about armed struggles that have happened in the past. What's wrong with talking about history?
It shouldn't imply that he is calling for group violence by denouncing solitary violence.
1 Lord_Giggles 2018-05-25
Impressive, I reckon you could get to the Olympics with gymnastics like that.
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
I'm hoping to take the gold from the NRA this year.
1 Lord_Giggles 2018-05-25
I thought tankies liked guns?
1 westofthetracks 2018-05-25
reddit is a haven for extremists of all stripes, because it's the largest and most normie-friendly site left that pretends to any sort of techno-libertarian ideals of "open discourse" or whatever. it's a lot more restrictive than it used to be, sure, but you dont see @jack or the Zucc openly saying "racism is allowed on our website." a site that actually "pitched left" would not have subs like t_d or braincels, and likewise one that "pitched right" wouldnt put up with lsc or r/@. any given controversial frontpage thread will be full of massively upvoted left or right talking points depending on whos priors it confirms, and this pattern persists as subs get smaller and more ideologically homogeneous. it only seems like it swings one way or the other if youre an outrage addict or otherwise prone to confirmation bias.
1 shallowm 2018-05-25
/u/spez is the ultimate radical centrist
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
Why are you reactionary cucks always so triggered by simple jokes? Are we not allowed to tell jokes anymore?
1 cybersubzero240 2018-05-25
Didn't your "people" start the "MUH FREEZE PEACH" meme? Isn't telling problematic jokes reactionary and bad or something?
1 Zizac 2018-05-25
lol commie retards are seeing the value of the amendment they'd first abolish if given power
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
The left is probably just jealous. Ever since the sedition act they haven't been allowed to publish their zines. :(
1 911roofer 2018-05-25
A communist calling other people "cucks" will never stop being funny. Under communism, everything is shared. EVERYTHING!
1 noobthrowthisaway 2018-05-25
If everyones a cuck then nobody is a cuck.
Maybe they're onto something here....
1 Rx16 2018-05-25
Wait what? The revolution of 1917 wasn’t like a holocaust. It would be like saying “Execute order 1776.” Just the year a civil war occurred. The February revolution didn’t even reform the government all that much, just transferred power from the tsar to the already-existing (though powerless) Duma. The October revolution ended the Duma and put another provisional government in place. 1917 was not a year anyone (except maybe the Tsar) would find all that offensive. If they talked about Holodomr that would be one thing but 1917? Really?
1 EasySchmitty 2018-05-25
/u/Sponcotello didn’t you lot refuse to donate to that anti malaria charity because “charity doesn’t exist under socialism” or some shit?
1 noobthrowthisaway 2018-05-25
The actual reason is because they don't accept NEETbux
1 ticktockwarrior 2018-05-25
1 jaredschaffer27 2018-05-25
/u/ThermalFlask
Wow talk about the pot calling the kettle African-American.
1 ThermalFlask 2018-05-25
Saying the truth is pot calling kettle black? Haha, okay then.
1 jaredschaffer27 2018-05-25
Maybe you're a good candidate for this question:
Why is the correlation between impractical fringe political belief and people who say things like "open your eyes", "wake up", and "saying the truth" exactly 1?
1 ThermalFlask 2018-05-25
Wtf
LSC is literally one of the least racist subreddits I've ever seen. And what "impractical fringe political belief" are you talking about? That's exactly what voting is. No one gives a rat's ass about your vote
1 jaredschaffer27 2018-05-25
You just used the word "bl--k" even though I told you not to. That's terrible, dude.
Agree or disagree:
As Westerners, we live in the most prosperous, safe and advanced era in human history. The sum total of all human knowledge is available at our fingertips and even the poorest of the poor have access to it.
The poor in North America consume more calories and more red meat than the rich, likely the first time this has ever been the case.
Opportunities to choose your surroundings (either dense high-tech city living or intentional community organic farm living) are endless.
The modern West (with few exceptions) produces the happiest, healthiest, most productive, safest and most opportunity-filled societies.
All of the modern West runs off capitalism and democracy (hurr voting bad hurr durr)
Just because 100% of people don't own their own organic co-op is no reason to decry the entire system as unjust and evil
Disagreeing with any of the above makes you look retarded to average and normal people, hence your fringe impractical political beliefs.
1 ThermalFlask 2018-05-25
1) The western world has gotten where it is by exploiting the rest of the planet, years of imperialism and exploitation of individuals desperate enough to slave themselves away. Much of the "prosperity" is also owed to public funded research and communal efforts.
2) Never heard this before and not sure how it justifies 1/7 Americans relying on food banks despite living in a post-scarcity world, or there being more vacant homes than there are homeless people
3) What does this have to do with anything? And are you aware that people today have less free time than medieval peasants did? So much "freedom", wow. As long as you slave away.
4) See point 1. The modern western world is the most exploitative and power-hungry in human history. But again, I don't see what this even has to do with anything. When did I say eastern countries are better than the west? Even if I did say that (which I did not), what does this have to do with anything?
5) If you think democracy truly exists you're delusional. Look up "oligarchy". That's what we have. I know your narcissist brain might find this hard to accept, but your opinion doesn't mean jack-shit when it comes to politics. Voting does not and will not change a thing. Deep down you know it's true. When has any vote you've ever made, mattered? Ever?
6) ?????
7) Well I'm glad you got that off your chest. You continue to waste your time on votes that are about as meaningful as the shit I took last night, and the rest of us can continue to do something else with that time, okay? I have better things to do than waste my time on you and I'm sure you have better things to do than waste your time on me (such as voting, lmao)
1 jaredschaffer27 2018-05-25
Obviously we aren't going to agree and you are going to spend the next 15 years of your life screaming about how awful and evil everything is (and alienating the normal people around you who would otherwise add so much richness and value to your life) instead of realizing how amazing everything is, but I would like to respond to this really popular argument
My polling place is a 2 minute drive away from my house. It takes me more time to run to the grocery store (5 minutes away) and buy some fair trade coffee than it does to vote. Why is it socialists and ancaps seem to think that voting is like a trek over a mountain pass that takes weeks and weeks to accomplish?
1 ThermalFlask 2018-05-25
It would also take me like 2 minutes to drive in a circle around the block I live in and them come back home. But I'm not going to do it. Why? Because it's a fruitless 2 minutes. "It doesn't take long" isn't enough justification to do something pointless. You should absolutely have the right to do it if you want but please don't expect the rest of us to join in on the delusion ("my voice matters! Yay!"), that's all we ask.
Like put it this way. Imagine if a religious person (assuming you're atheist, that is,) told you to spend 2 minutes praying. You're not going to do it since it has no benefit. Just because it doesn't take long doesn't mean it's suddenly a good usage of your time.
1 Dunkcity239 2018-05-25
Ur moms gay lol
1 scatmunchies 2018-05-25
American commies in a nutshell
1 ThermalFlask 2018-05-25
Socialist. Though I don't expect you to know the difference.
1 scatmunchies 2018-05-25
It’s just that I don’t care.
1 People_Reading 2018-05-25
No-one cares to learn your 50 different genders of communism when we're all just "nazis" to you anyway
1 zergling_Lester 2018-05-25
Isn't the only difference that communism is supposed to come after socialism is established? You're bullshitting.
1 ThermalFlask 2018-05-25
To people that support communism, yes. Socialism would be a stepping stone. Just like to Karl Marx Capitalism was a stepping stone to socialism, that doesn't mean supporting capitalism automatically means you support socialism too.
1 zergling_Lester 2018-05-25
Are you sure you have not mixed up some words there?
1 ThermalFlask 2018-05-25
Yes.
Capitalism-->Socialism
Does supporting the former automatically require that you support the latter too?
Socialism-->Communism
Same question
1 zergling_Lester 2018-05-25
Are you being retarded in a pseudo-deep way? If our eyes aren't real then how mirrors are real way?
No, supporting Capitalism doesn't require that you support Socialism at all. Fuck.
From what I know, Karl Marx's idea was that once Capitalism has prepared the material base we can switch to Socialism, and then almost immediately to Communism, but nobody knows what economic relationships will be under Communism, that's like the entire point, we know that Socialism is worker-owned means of production while still using money and stuff, and Communism is the Post-Singularity thing.
I recommend reading this review if you are yourself kinda confused: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/13/book-review-singer-on-marx/
1 jaredschaffer27 2018-05-25
As a deeply autistic person who routinely does basic math to discover how much of my life I've wasted doing mundane things (shaving, wiping my ass, sitting at traffic lights), adding 2 minutes to my life once every 2 years is the lowest possible tier of time wasting imaginable.
1 ThermalFlask 2018-05-25
I'm sure it is, but it's still time wasting nonetheless. And not even an enjoyable one.
1 jaredschaffer27 2018-05-25
Dude my polling place is staffed to the brim with MILF-y middle class types. Now if I weren't a deeply deeply closeted gay man, that'd be reason enough to show up for 5 minutes.
1 aef823 2018-05-25
There's also mailing the votes.
If you're a decent enough person and talk to the mailman they do it for you.
But apparently it's too much of an effort for hamplanets.
1 SethRichOrDieTryin 2018-05-25
this is a muslim subreddit you arrogant spider
1 911roofer 2018-05-25
Its why I've wired the entire place with digital explosives. Eventually, every /r/drama poster's computer will burst forth with party parrots. Anime will be real, in the real world.
1 zergling_Lester 2018-05-25
Real talk: if the entire continent of Africa suddenly disappears and is replaced by a uniform ocean, how do you think, would my taxes and the prices of stuff I usually buy go up or down?
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
Prices would go up. Hard to say what your taxes would do.
1 zergling_Lester 2018-05-25
Are you sure? What stuff that you buy is produced in Africa?
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
Most metals besides steel and oil.
1 zergling_Lester 2018-05-25
[citation needed]
OK, we are talking about Subsaharan Africa. We lose on some pointless diamonds and some rare earth metals that the Chinese already produce. But, importantly, we don't lose any sort of higher level production.
It's OK to say that all human beings deserve good outcomes, regardless of their ability to contribute to good outcomes here and now or even in principle.
It's NOT OK to avoid making that argument because it's hard to prove, and instead make a false argument that the Western civilization must share its goods not because that's a moral imperative, but because those goods are stolen from the third-world countries actually. Which they are not, they are produced in Western countries because of Western technology and social mechanisms.
Because if you really buy into that bullshit then divesting from Africa seems like a good idea, but it would be disastrous for Africa. If we build a wall around Subsaharan Africa to prevent us from "imperialistically exploiting" them, that would be really really bad for them.
We have to realize that it's possible to be "imperialistic" and fuck other people's stuff up, and at the same time that we don't actually derive our wealth from it, that we make our wealth ourselves and should teach them how to make wealth efficiently.
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
Source
I would never make that argument. I believe all countries should be able to charge a fair price for goods. The United States provides humanitarian aide to many countries. I think this is unfair to American workers and should not continue.
It's much easier than that. All we would have to do is to stop charitably donating our weapons to be used by dictatorships in Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Yemen, Somalia, Libya, I could go on... The trick would be getting China, France, U.K., and India to pull out as well.
This would improve poverty in Africa because the dictatorships that forcibly protect the land holdings of foreign companies would be overthrown by the populations, and production of resources would fall under community control.
We shouldn't waist our time and tax dollars teaching them anything. They are perfectly capable of deciding how they want to live. They already have access to virtually any scientific discovery the west has made.
1 aef823 2018-05-25
For your citation, where's it say the actual numbers?
cuz here it is
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
*proving he hasn't read it past the first paragraph*
1 aef823 2018-05-25
m8, I don't give a shit about you and whatever the other faggot is going on about, I just want to know if whatever the hell that website is actually has the thing.
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
yes
1 aef823 2018-05-25
And where is it butthurt one?
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
I don't get your point or why you think I'm butthurt by something, but the second paragraph has the same numbers as wikipedia.
1 aef823 2018-05-25
There you go, thank you.
m8, when you're the only one downvoting something, either no one else gives a shit or you give a shit too much.
Either way, butthurt.
1 zergling_Lester 2018-05-25
Well, I was responding to the person who was making that argument:
All I'm saying that it's the wrong way to look at it. The West has railroads and hospitals and stuff like that not because we stole it from Africans' ancestors. Imperialism and even slavery was a side dish, nice but not necessary for the success.
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
That other guy is entitled to his opinion, but I wouldn't have phrased it the way he did.
Slavery wasn't necessary for the success of west, but it was necessary for the success of some individuals who owned slaves.
Likewise, imperialism wasn't necessary for the west, but it was necessary for imperialists.
If another culture wants a railroad they can build one themselves. It's better to have no railroads, than a railroad that was built only to serve the interests of a foreign entity.
Likewise, if a community wants to adopt western medicine, they should have access to the same materials that everyone has access to. America shouldn't build a hospital for them.
I'm gonna ignore the part where you say imperialism and slavery were nice, but I agree with the rest.
1 rhyme-ocerus 2018-05-25
How old are you
1 modsarethebest 2018-05-25
1) they conquered it fair and square. don't be such a sore loser
1 dootwiththesickness 2018-05-25
This statement is obectively retarded.
1 911roofer 2018-05-25
And incorrect. There's wood to chop, there's weeds to pull, there's fish to gut, there's whores to ho...
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
That's what I do in my free time when George Soros isn't paying me to reddit.
1 ThermalFlask 2018-05-25
You're fucking retarded like the rest of you braindead asswipes.
1 dootwiththesickness 2018-05-25
I'd respond but I don't have the time. Too busy not having pockmarks.
1 vjaY619 2018-05-25
Spoiler alert: In a world with many races and tribes the one that wins over the others gets to prosper. I know shocking. Now apply that to 17-20th century time frame.
The rest of your points aren't even worth addressing. Your western hate boner is blinding you, as you write these comments from devices and technologies invented by western people. If the tree is poisonous then so shall be the fruit wouldn't you agree?
1 duelapex 2018-05-25
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
source?
1 jaredschaffer27 2018-05-25
God's lips to your ears
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
God doesn't speak to me.
1 I_Dream_of_Outremer 2018-05-25
For you have fallen from His Grace
1 vjaY619 2018-05-25
Repent and he will. Or maybe you're a soulless husk with no value to humanity. Might just be it.
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
No u.
1 cheeZetoastee 2018-05-25
Communism is an impractical fringe political belief. It's never worked. Capitalism always wins.
1 dootwiththesickness 2018-05-25
Voting, a system so unimportant that Southern crackers raised hell when black people tried to do it.
1 911roofer 2018-05-25
STOP DOWNVOTING THE LOLCOWS This is the true class treason.
1 comebepc 2018-05-25
100%
1 Fletch71011 2018-05-25
You know you guys sound exactly the same as the Nazi assholes you supposedly hate? I guess the only real difference is that the commies killed way more people than the Nazis did.
1 ThermalFlask 2018-05-25
How? Being against wage theft, sweatshop labor, union busting, the hoarding of half the planet's wealth in the hands of less than ten people, homelessness and imperialism sounds like Nazism to you?
Capitalism continues to kill more than any other system could dream of. But of course "but that doesn't count because reasons"
1 mcslibbin 2018-05-25
fewer than ten people
1 muck4doo 2018-05-25
It leaves you plenty of "me time" to post stupid shit on the internet.
1 LemonScore 2018-05-25
In Communist regimes people are forced to work for free or for very little, and are imprisoned or outright killed for resisting.
The people worked to death in Soviet Russia would see sweatshops as a luxury environment.
Anyone even trying to resist the state's labour practices in Soviet Russia, Communist China, Cuba etc would be jailed or would be killed, probably their families too.
Stalin, Mao, Castro and other Communist leaders lived like kings whilst their people starved. This is happening in Venezuela, right now.
Another hobby of Communist nations. Say what you want about the US, at least they didn't start forcing the Vietnamese to subscribe to their ideology or try to permanently claim the country as their territory as Russia and China have done (and are still doing).
Nobody kills people in the name of capitalism. Capitalism isn't an ideology.
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
9/11/1973
Never forget.
1 Neil_Tzedakah 2018-05-25
Holy fuck you guys, don't downvote our guests.
1 jaredschaffer27 2018-05-25
I'm doing my part and updooting or upsnozzling or whatever it is you retarded kids say these days
1 Smoothieshakes 2018-05-25
I take it these people aren't working on their MsC in history.
1 CeciNestPasUnGulag 2018-05-25
And you are?
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
No, but that doesn't mean he can't judge a good Doctoral candidate.
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
History shows that poverty, insecurity, and injustice can only increase to a point before a shift of power inevitably occurs.
1 Smoothieshakes 2018-05-25
History also shows that when these imporvished and opressed masses take over it doesn't take more than a decade before they do the exact same thing their opressors did.
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
History is more messy and complex, but that happens.
1 LightUmbra 2018-05-25
Yup. Almost every time.
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
So how are we gonna prevent it?
1 LightUmbra 2018-05-25
Give me power.
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
Done. How then do you guarantee that people will not start following someone that contradicts you?
1 LightUmbra 2018-05-25
I kill them.
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
For every man you kill, ten more rise up against you.
1 LightUmbra 2018-05-25
Bullets are cheap.
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
Cheap for you. But Amerussia gives them to your rebels for free.
1 Zizac 2018-05-25
Let american companies mine sweet bananas from your land and you'll basically be guaranteed a kingship for life. fucking amateurs smdh
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
And poverty, insecurity, and injustice gets pushed further towards the breaking point.
1 Shitposting_Skeleton 2018-05-25
You don't, the only times in history when power truly shifted to the working masses as a whole was during economic shortages of labor, such as post-Black Death Europe. You want worker control of production? Hand out condoms but not food.
1 SuperObviousShill 2018-05-25
so /u/poncotello doesn't want to have an argument in any place where he can't simply get the disagreeing party banned. That's pretty authentically socialist.
No one is arguing that it wouldn't take a violent rebellion to put communism into place, what we're saying is that the inevitable result is a dictatorship 10 times worse than whatever it replaced.
Also lol succdem, so you basically mean you're a blue dog democrat.
1 ahbslldud 2018-05-25
He's besmirching our good center-left name with his shitposting.
1 Power_Incarnate 2018-05-25
Why do redditors always base their logic around movies, tv, and video games?
I consume too much of all 3 and yet I'm still not that far gone.
1 AiKantSpel 2018-05-25
The admin dessalines was banned from reddit for a previous comment that, instead of Star Wars characters and clips, had references to real people and documents.
1 Shitposting_Skeleton 2018-05-25
Gas the Gungans, Separatist War now! We must secure a future for Mandalorian and Mandalorian children. Seize the means of production from the greedy Hutts!
Am I doing it right?
1 kier00 2018-05-25
If LSC keeps this up they are going to inspire the awakening of Hitler II who is going to show them what's what.
1 telandrias 2018-05-25
/r/LateStageCapitalism advocating school shootings for privileged white people but wondering why some guy saying so got banned.
1 positiveandmultiple 2018-05-25
Uhhhh edgelords is one word!!!!!!!!!
1 im-a-koala 2018-05-25
/u/ThermalFlask
Hot take: if voting actually meant nothing, why would those in power spend so many millions of dollars on campaigning?