He's basically reinventing fundamentalist Islam. The only religion that respects whammenz so much that it requires them to veil themselves in order to protect themselves from the corrupting male gaze and touch. This sinful male sexual energy is so powerful that some womyn even submit to internalized misogyny and allow themselves be "convinced" (read: coerced) to voluntarily submit to sex (rape) by Chad.
Consent is clearly for shitlords, because women can't decide for themselves who can sex them if they're not woke enough.
Damn, I seriousposted a long diatribe to u/vraestin and he deleted his account. /u/vraestin, please read my message if you're still lurking here. We love you dude
Oh my sweet summer child. I'm already regretting creating this thread. Let me fill you in before the real meanies come in
In summary, don't pay much attention to us. /r/Drama is a sub for South Park centrist edgelords who want to make fun of everybody and anybody with absolute impunity. I created this thread because you make some funny leaps in logic in your post and it reunites a couple of meme-y, dramatic tropes about feminism, objectification, male feminists, "nice guys" and all that stuff that cynical jaded assholes like me love to make fun of. Seriously, run away.
Secondly, you seem young so I'll give you some free advice, lest life beat you down and turn you into a bitter /r/Drama poster:
1) Don't get hung up on your female friend not letting you touch her while some random guy (Chad) can. This is called "being friendzoned". It happens to a lot of guys and it sucks but dwelling on it leads nowhere. There's plenty of fish in the sea, yadda yadda
2) Whammenz (just like teh menz) can be inconsistent, especially where sexual stuff is concerned. I know, shocking, right, especially when it's woke feminists? Despite what she says the fact is she (subconsciously) doesn't mind being touched by this dude, hence why she doesn't bother to set boundaries with her while she does so with you. Hey, I'm sure that you prefer being touched by women that you personally find hot to being touched by women that turn you off. This is right-brained stuff, not left-brained.
3) Your friend might be somewhat of a hypocritical asshole on this issue, but people are sexual beings and they will like what they like. Henceforth thou shalt take thine feminist friends' opinions with a pinch of salt. You already noticed that some feminists don't take kindly to disagreement (to be fair, I disagree with most of what you said because it seems a little convoluted, but that's just my honest opinion).
4) Some guys in your situation (when confronted with seemingly irrational and inconsistent behavior by so-called 'femoids') end up on the other extreme and turn to RedPill or incel ideology, blaming whammenz' treachery and irrationality for their own shortcomings and/or lack of sex, and spouting "biotroofs" about why men need to be assholes to women in order to procreate. Seriously, don't do this unless you want to keep getting made fun of on boards like these. Both left-wing and right-wing "SJW"s exist and they're both equally hilarious. Sexuality is a messy subject and not something to be dogmatic or overly ideological about.
Remember, having a strong opinion on anything makes you a Nazi Bolshevik. Sorry again for introducing you to this hive of scum and villainy.
Well fuck you, you ableist. I am a Belgian, we're basically the Euro version of Canadians and all of our neighbors make fun of us for it. So I know what it's like to be a fragile mayo who needs delicate aftercare after a mild roasting. I started to suspect vraestin might be one of these and it turns out he nuked his account.
Now let’s kiss and make up bby. Good drama find, next time find us a lolcow who won’t delete.
Thank you daddy. Still acclimatizing to this sub like the filthy immigrant I am. But reading some of his responses deeper down in that thread it turns out, he's even more of an MGTOW/incel masquerading as a male feminist than I already thought.
It's rare to see a male feminist actually expressing their real thought process instead of repressing it and only speaking in inoffensive woke platitudes. The mechanism reveals itself.
I can perfectly express myself with thought process ecc ecc. Thing is, I can only communicate that way with 1 person per time.
Try being attacked by 10 people or so and still answering in an immaculate way. It's impossible. If the person was only one, and asked me to explain better what I said instead of calling me potential-rapist, my answers would have been different.
I am not english and english is not my main language, but I always tought I knew english good enough to have a conversation with people and comprehend what they were saying. Coudn't be more wrong when I started reading this post ( and then the sub ).
But I can google. And I'm having a lot of fun finding what all of that means XD Even if it's an " insult " directed to me, I still have lots of fun. Idk why.
To be fair, you're better off not knowing that meme stuff (it's not even proper English anyway). It really rots the brain. I remember being like you once, a pure and innocent soul. Don't become like me mah boi, do something positive with your life.
Technically, regarding internet, I am not an innocent boy. I am 22 and I spent 12/h per day in average my past 10 years of life at the computer.
I am not new to chats or forums, just new to reddit. And the reddit thameplate is extremely different ( i'd dare say " retro " ) to the rest.. else I would have no problem.
But really, I find funny those names and words, to the point where they do not hurt me even if they are directed to me. So it's okay :P
MGTOW stands for "Men Going Their Own Way", which is referring to men who have decided to cut themselves off from women in terms of romantic relationships, friendships, and often casual sex as well.
Incel is short for "involuntarily celibate", which is referring to people (generally men, there's a whole debate about whether women can be incels or not) who are unable to enter a romantic relationship and/or have casual sex.
I'm italian. I've learnt English through online games. ^
Regarding MGTOW, I may be one of them. But instead of refusing relationships and often casual sex, I just refuse sex.
Regarding Incel, that's the part where I feel a bit insulted XD My virginity is not at all caused by the fact I never had a woman to had sex with. I refused sex many times. But the fact I am unable to enter a romantic relationship is probably true. I have had girls who liked me in the past, but never got into a relation because I never liked them back. And the ones I liked never liked me back. :/
Joke's on you, I actually hate my own country (somewhat less so during footsoccer cups, but I'm eurotrash so that's to be expected). I would've much preferred to grow up as a burger being indoctrinated into reciting the Pledge of Allegiance at middle school. Imagine caring about a flag.
Imagine associating any kind of feeling with a flag.
I associate the feeling of the flag with being top 10 in the Quality of Life Index, Human Development Index, having vast public forests in just my home state bigger than your postage stamp-sized country, having desirable tourist destinations, best schools on earth, best tech companies, etc.
I know that Belgium has a pissing boy statue as its main attraction and that you can't relate to any of the above, but at least you have Kevin De Bruyne, I suppose.
Literally who cares about quality of life, mah nibba? Let me quote Julius Caesar, the OG Chad:
Of all these [the Gauls], the Belgians are the bravest ... because they are furthest from the civilization and refinement of [our] Province, and merchants least frequently resort to them, and import those things which tend to effeminate the mind;
I know that Belgium has a pissing boy statue as its main attraction and that you can't relate to any of the above, but at least you have Kevin De Bruyne, I suppose.
That, and we aren't so deathly afraid of "socialism" that we think people being unable to pay their emergency medical bill is a fair trade-off. But you're rightburgerdick is bigger than waffledick, yadda yadda etc.
Sorry, I had to get the obvious bait out of my system. Those 1302 memes are only really relevant for people from the provinces of West- and East-Flanders, which I'm not (based Brabander here). Antwerp actually fought with the Frenchies. So let's kiss and make up?
It's me. I just wanted to tell you that I didn't delete my account because I felt bullied by the making of this post or anything... I did for other reasons which I'd prefer not to explain. But thanks anyways for caring ^^
Hey, thanks homeslice, that means a lot to me! But remember, young padawan: never do drugs.
Also, by now you've probably figured out that telling the chicas not to put out for other dudes is not the smartest idea if you're ever planning to make a career as a feminist. It's one of those pesky social unwritten rules. I know, it sucks, people can be pigheaded about this.
If you still feel strongly about your anti-self-objectification stance, I do seriously suggest converting to Islam or hardline Catholicism. Religious backing to your beliefs lends you more credibility nowadays than just holding those beliefs in isolation. You might just be a supreme gentleman who prefers "high-quality" women who save themselves for the special one.
Alternatively, you could loosen up a little and look up some tiddies in Bing Image search. Some people like to be objectified and even get paid for it. The sexual revolution of the 60s didn't happen for nothing. If that's the case, partakig in hobbies with fun people can be helpful to grind at those social skills and meet some girls, but that's really secondary to the pr0n.
Unfortunately, feminists don't seem to get along with Catholics, at least not the internet versions I'm aware of. From what I've seen, they seem to be willing to cut more slack to muslims for some weird reason, even though the basic ideas seem to be pretty similar. I dunno, aren't Catholics a little stricter about stuff like abortion? Maybe that has something to do with it. I suppose swapping from one Abrahamic religion to the other is not in the cards?
Yeah I understood that talking with them about this problem was not a good idea. And that's mostly because I expressed myself really bad and my words were misleading ( I think not even you got right what kind of relationship I wanted from her and what she didn't allow me to do ).
The only thing that made me feel bad was them thinking I am a potential rapist, because I don't like being associated with such people...
Well, they probably still wouldn't have liked it, but it does help to make sense of your positions. I guess they'd see a non-religious guy who holds those beliefs as a misogynist. But a deeply religious guy who holds those beliefs might just be seen as a deeply religious guy who holds some peculiar ideas about purity that are a legacy from an ancient tradition, and be more understanding as to how you developed your views.
Still, they probably won't like the fact that you appear to be low-key "policing" the girl's sensual behavior. You're a nice guy, but there are a lot of not-so-nice guys with a similar mindset who would call a woman letting herself be touched by a strange man a "whore".
Some of those guys often don't like women very much, and as such they give women a creepy vibe. As many women's top fears is being overpowered and raped by a man, an "uncomfortable" vibe is often associated in their mind with "rape". Hence all the talk about rapists even though you don't want to rape anyone, you just want her to not have pleasant-feeling contact with strange guys lest they "rape" her. (Then again, let's face it. If she says she likes it, is it really "rape"?)
-> guys with a similar mindset who would call a woman letting herself be touched by a strange man a "whore"
Let me clarify what I failed to make you ( and them ) understand:
By " touched " I didn't absolutly mean like touching her sensible parts or touching her in a sexually-arousing way. I ment literally " touched ", even for a mistake.
How can I explain? It's hard. XD Ehm...
One day, we were at this other guy's birthday. I was the one with the car and was meant to bring her and another girl home, after the party.
So, when it was over, I accidentally touched her on our way to the car. Not like " touched " because I wanted to or something, you know, like " Hey, the car is there on the left " and then I grabbed ( gently,
inadvertently, naturally, automatically... for a split second ) her arm.
When I did this, she didn't go back or refuse my act of grabbing, but her eyes looked at me disgusted, as I was actually raping her or doing her something extremely bad.
That day, when going home, I felt extremely bad ( and she knows it ), it has been probably the only day in my life where I wished to be dead. Because I knew that I didn't ever do anything technically wrong with her, so the only reason I thought she had, was thinking I was ugly to the point she woudn't even get touched by me.
Because really... we are friends, normal friends. I didn't do anything to her ever.
And when, some weeks later, SHE contacted ME ( because yes, at that time, she was the one contacting me, I didn't care that much about her and/or had other things to look for in life ) I told her how I felt and asked her why she did that.
She said she was sorry and the face she made was not on pourpose and " automatic ". She told me that she had the same problem with other people too and everyone was making her notice.
Now, the probem is* that it isn't completely true. She told me that, yeah. But with the other guy she doesn't act like that.
She doesn't talk to him privately, not a lot and not about serious things. She told me about it. She also thinks he is an incurable masculist and a stupid person in general, while she multiple times told me " I can talk to you about those things because you understand ".
Yet, irl, some weeks BEFORE the birthday, we went out, the guy said " I heard some feminists do not shave their arms, are you the same ? " ( innocently, I can tell ) And she put her arm close to him, saying: " Find it yourself, touch "
The guy didn't even touch her. But she wanted or agreed on him to do so.
Now, my rage on her and the fact that I want revenge ecc ecc, comes from the fact that my relationship with her is unnatural. It works like that: When we chat, we chat about everything, act like friends ( if not more ) and all is cool ( and I'm special, remember, she said it ). While IRL? Irl I can't even touch or look her because she feels disgusted.
Then, if you are disgusted and this other guy is a stupid, why the hell he is allowed to touch you and I am not?
What in the world is it? Is it justice? I don't think so.
So see? It's completely different from what they understood in the topic. She doesn't hate or push me away. She CALLS for me! But only virtually! In real life she doesn't want to come close. For x reasons she doesn't want to tell me.
Bah.
*the " is " is actually a " was ". All we are talking about happened an year ago and I already talked with her about this. Things evolved but didn't get any better sadly.
I think I get it, brah, but correct me if I'm wrong.
You feel like she treats you like a piece of shit, that you repulse her physically or something. Understandably, you're upset by this. She tried to make you feel better by providing you with a justification that absolves you from everything. But it seems the justification doesn't really hold, at least not in 100% of cases.
I think the reason people are attacking you in that thread is the level of your anger. Calling her a liar, demanding an explanation etc. People are often not very good at justifying why they feel a certain way, dude. She might even have believed her own justification, but people can be wrong about themselves.
Let's face it, some people are, physically, pretty socially awkward, and some other people are not awkward. Even though the guy might be an asshole (or Chad, as is the preferred nomenclature around here), he probably has an easy-going demeanor that exudes confidence. This kind of demeanor tends to put womyn (heck, people in general) at ease, while socially awkward behavior tends to repel some people (and especially whamen, who often consciously or unconscious fear being raped, which they associate with shifty behavior). I mean, I don't know if awkwardness is the reason, but if you spent 12 hours a day on the computer for 10 years (welcome to the club, brah), chances are you are more trained in mashing buttons than moving yourself around the physical world with grace and dignity.
Alternatively, it could be a body odor issue (which is a bitch as people really hate to bring it up and many people don't notice the smell of their own farts). Heck, maybe you're Adonis personified, but she just doesn't vibe with you in that way.
I mean, it's classic, really. Her mind prefers the words that come out of your mouth, but her body responds better to the smooth moves of Chad, to put it crudely. Even in non-sexual situations.
For a lot of dumb internet guys who have been through this "injustice", this is enough to start hating whammen and calling them femoids or something. But really, if you had to grow up among people who, in general, are stronger and hornier than you, I bet you'd be paranoid too, even though you might try to consciously fight it. Ever been to a bad neighborhood where you feared being robbed, or worse? Ever been to a bad neighborhood and came across a shifty-looking guy that looked like he might want something from you and could overpower you? Maybe even someone with a different skin color from you? I know, it's bad and unfair, but when it comes to these kind of things, it's the fear centers of the brain that are activated, and not any rational part, because the rational part isn't really well-equipped for life-and-death situations.
So, what to do about it? Maybe I'm an idiot and nothing I said has anything to do with your issues. But if you think there might be something to it, I suggest doing some sports, talking to a lot of different people and not let the negativity get to you. But then again, I'm posting on /r/Drama , so you might want to get advice from someone more well-adjusted, like that guy who your friend asked to touch her.
I decided to google up what Chad means too late, because if I did first and clarify you what I'm gonna say, you woudn't have made this comment. XD
They are ( the girl and the guy ) 3 and 4 years younger than me. He's a normal guy and I'm definetely the more attractive of the 2. It's highly more probable that I am Chad to him then he being my Chad, really. XD
Well, regarding the ego part of the Chad ( feeling the best man ever existed ecc ecc ) then we probably challenge each other. We are both pretty convinced of being the best and the alfas. Differently from him I lived enough to understand that showing them to the others only keeps them away from me, so I stopped saying certain things loudly. He didn't, and is in fact judged by her and our other friends because of it.
I am not convinced that she's lying to me about not-liking him. I belive her, she dislikes him and has no interest about him whatsoever. She excused about the differences in her ways of acting with us by simply saying " I know him way before you ", and anyways, after that episode and after I told her about all this fact, she cared a lot more about those differences IRL. I mean, she cared to threat him like me and me like him, like... she found a way to threat me better and him less good, just so me and him could match.
And she did that just because of me and because I told her about how bad those differences made me feel. Once, she even said that with her own mouth ( not mouth, but via messages ), I even remember how it happened:
She asked me to talk about feminism to this guy. I told her that I would have never do because I would have never do something that could bring him closer to her likes, and then she replied: " Don't say that to me, keep the gelously by yourself because else I'll need to watch myself about what I do with him to not make you jealous ".
In little words... I made this post on feminism reddit, saying why for me harassing should be bad undependently from consent, and then brought up this example of why I thought so.. but THIS example is not my main problem in life, there is no girl and no guy to fight with for her feelings.
It's just an example. I mean, they both exist and the situation is really like I described, but it sounds too main in my life and too anime-ish. It's not like that.
Sorry, those posts are challenging my english capabilities, I am making so much useless circles of words that you could end up not understanding and I'm sorry in advance for that ^
THIS example is not my main problem in life, there is no girl and no guy to fight with for her feelings. It's just an example. I mean, they both exist and the situation is really like I described, but it sounds too main in my life and too anime-ish. It's not like that.
Ah okay, I get it now. You're actually not really that bothered about the whole situation, except as an intellectual exercise. I actually thought for a moment that what you were really quite upset and angry about what this girl did, because of quotes like:
Did you ever want justice/revenge for someone who threated you bad? That's what I want.
Once she said that, she can legit transfer to another planet.
Know for sure that I will find a coherent, legal way to expose her lie and her difect to everyone else. So that the hypocricy she showd me and is trying to hide, will get on everyone's ears.
But I get it, it's just an example to demonstrate a rational, logical point. Not like an anime at all, except for the fact that you talk about it like it's an anime.
I mean, by your own admission, jealousy seems to be a recurrent theme in your life. Isn't that one of the cardinal sins in Catholicism? I was baptized but that was pretty much it. I was turned off by the "casual sex and homosex are evil" part of the culture, so I could be wrong. But one thing I remember from catechism is that we're all sinners. Maybe it's the near-pathological jealousy that those feminists were freaking out about and that causes your friend, whom you like in a totally non-sexual but ambiguously Platonic/romantic way, to express discomfort around you. If you're a Chad physically, I'm guessing that's what giving off the bad vibes.
Other than that, you seem like a cool dude. Well, except for the disapproving of casual and homosex bit, but that's only my opinion, you do you.
As a Christian ( but even as a common dude ) I am not against Omosexuality, really. I mean, it depends. If we talk about rights, they are free to do whatever they want. I am not even against adoption.
An african baby lives better with an omosexual family than dead in his native country ^
The only problem we christians have with omosexuals are on an etic level other than pratical ( we are against surrogate pregnancies or some things like that, but they have nothing to do with omosexuals, they are wrong undependently from the sexuality of the couple! :) ).
Omosexual families can't claim to be potentially equal to a straight family. I am NOT saying that 2 dads will definetely raise a child worse than 1 dad and 1 mom, because It could happen that those 2 dads love and care about the child much more than the straight family.
But potentally, taking off the counts secondary things and putting on an equal level of love/care/raise capability 2 dads and 1 dad 1 mom, the straight couple will always be able to raise the child better.
There are some things that males have and females do not, and vice versa. One example is the empathy the mom has with the child. A man will never be able to be the perfect " mom " figure to his child, because of the lack of this boundary. STILL not saying the best he can reach is mediocrity, but just that he can't reach perfection.
This has very little to do with christianity. It's science. Science demostrated that the brain of the woman ( for example ) turns on faster and on a larger scale than the men's while, during the night, they ear the baby crying.
( does that mean the woman is the one who MUST get up for the child? no, the woman can slap the dad's shoulder and woke him up )
Nature ( or god ) made so that tho people of the same sex cannot procreate. A man will never be able to substitute perfectly a woman and vice versa.
If an omosexual comes to me and wants me to admit so, I won't. I'd rather be defined homophobic then, because think at it:
If the man can do anything the woman can and vice versa, perfectly, then why does sexuality exist? Why there is etero and omo ? You just stay with someone undependently from their gender, it won't matter anymore. You can't stay with someone just because you are sexually attracted to their specific genitals, that would be objectifying-y on so many levels.
And this is why, in fact, radical feminism always went against omosexuality. And why omosexuals think christianity it's against them.
We are not, really. If it's the rights you want, you can have them all, just don't put them on an etic level.
I am not homophobe, but if you put this fact on the level " you are either omosexual or omophobe ", I will be forced to chose the second.
Regarding the question of the rape.. " if she likes it, is it really rape " ?
I would need to write down a bible to make you understand my thought.
Maybe I will do later, but lets see if I'm clear enough with this super-shortened version:
I am not against all sex. I am against all non-reproductive sex. Against " pleasure " sex. But not because of the pleasure itself, because of the positions we assume. Basically:
In nature, every animal has his own sex position written in his brain as an instinct. This instinct represents the sex he is naturally brought to LIKE.
If the girl says she likes THIS sex, then yeah, it's not rape.
But if the girls asks for anal/oral sex, kamasutra positions ecc ecc.. for me it is. Not " rape ", but it's bad. Because she can't say she " I like it ". She can't know if she REALLY likes it or she got PERSUASED to like it.
If you raise a girl in a society that sees anal sex as legit, and teaches women to like it, then she will probably like it. And her " like " for it won't be natural or personal, it will just be caused by persuasion.
So if a girl tells me " yeah I like and agree to have a d** in my anus ", I do not trust her.
I am not saying consent isn't enough. I am saying that consent in which there is no securety about persuasion, is not a real consent.
That's it. Can't explain it better. XD
( to answer a possible question: " what do you know about natural sex, instincts ecc ecc? are you just a google man like everyone else? " -> No. I study Science and Technology of Animals Production an university, I know sex life and sexual instinct of animals better than a veterinary.
It's thanks to what I've learnt in this faculty that I know see " pleasure-sex" bad.
So, let me get this straight, because it's not often we get an expert on animal reproduction around these parts.
You think strictly heterosexual, missionary, premeditated baby-spawning sex is the only kind of sex that is "written in" the human "brain as an instinct"? And that anal and oral sex are just some learned degeneracy imprinted onto us (especially helpless whammen) by corrupt cultures?
It's a pretty interesting philosophy, really. Very Jean-Jacques Rousseau, "man is corrupted by society" and all that good stuff, although I don't remember what he had to say about anal.
But reading your post again, you seem to be more concerned about the sex positions than the reproductive angle, because you say it's about "sex positions written in the brain" and not so much the pleasure. So you approve of pleasurable PIV sex? But you also dislike non-reproductive sex, full stop. Is that because of your moral principles or because of a preference (asexuality)?
Because I imagine that in prehistoric times, most homo sapiens weren't really thinking about putting appointments with the gynecologist in their day planner while fucking. I imagine the kids just kind of, popped out. Some premeditation to produce children might have accompanied it sometimes, but I can't imagine humans didn't sometimes just stop to fuck because it felt good. Then again, that might just be a product of that savage and corrupt hunter-gatherer culture.
Also, what do you say about homosexual behavior in animals (which is being documented more and more as time goes on)? I mean, sure, it doesn't produce offspring, but making that the gold standard for what is okay to do and what is not okay to do is pretty arbitrary. How do you decide whether that's deviant behavior or "instinctual"?
Moreover, how does "instinctual" behavior equal "moral" behavior? I mean, dogs have an instinct to sniff other dogs' butts, but I don't know if that's a thing that would make God particularly happy. And primates like chimpanzees can have some pretty nasty, violent, and brutish instincts, unless you believe that's just due to problematic chimp culture.
I dunno man, you're definitely interesting to talk to.
The first lines you wrote down are extremely good. You got what I think perfectly right. I am not against pleasure nor reproductive sex. In fact, for me ( and for the church aswell! ) sex with pregnant woman or sex between a couple unable to have child, is perfectly okay, even if it's clare that they are doing it for pleasure only.
Technically, I am not against the sex position, I am against the fact that people say " I am born liking this kind of sex ". And I am against it because it's not true. Plain and simple. Here, I have no religion to bind to. I am against it because it's not true. The only sex we ( as prehistoric / noninfluenced / lobotimized people ) know is the missionary position, or x positions where basically no one is submitted.
So if you come saying " nono, I give consent because I like anal " you don't. For me you just don't. You are born in a place and saw things that made you like that, maybe, but you are not born and not designed to like it. So your " consent " is equal to the consent women had in 1800 to men, saying that " yeah, we don't need the right to vote, and we are consent about it ". You are giving consent, and this consent does not absolutly eliminate how much that act is wrong and/or disgusting.
FEMINISTS THEMSELVES argued with those words to the women of the time: " We know you are consenting man to not give you X right, but your consent is not sincere, you are just persuased ".
I really do not find a logical way why this can't be applied to sex. It can! Why people think that they cannot live without sex? That pleasure from sex is necessary? Because we live in a society where we see naked women everywhere. Our dicks are constantly pushed to stay erected. This is wrong on so many levels.
" Rape was common way before the society decided to over-sexualize everything "
Yeah. But that rape was not the same rape we see today, in terms of what happens during the rape. It was the same in terms of " lack of consent ", yeah, but it was definetely a different rape mechanically-wise.
The first lines you wrote down are extremely good. You got what I think perfectly right. I am not against pleasure nor reproductive sex. In fact, for me ( and for the church aswell! ) sex with pregnant woman or sex between a couple unable to have child, is perfectly okay, even if it's clare that they are doing it for pleasure only.
Awesome! But why just those situations, though? If pleasurable sex is not haram, does that make it okay to fuck your partner with a condom, as long as it's vanilla missionary (and I assume, in the context of a monogamous relationship)?
Or is the condom Satanic treachery, conceived to circumvent the rules of our Omnipotent, Omnibenevolent, Omniscient Lord of when it's okay to have sex? (I mean, if that's the case, He should've really seen it coming. But condoms are pretty okay. Last thing I heard, Francis seemed to be pretty chill about them. Progress!)
Not responding to the rest of your post for now as it's very late.
You are right, infact condoms, even being wrong for the church, they are on a TOTAL, EXTREMELY different level than other contraceptive methods. Using the pill it's like practicying abortion for christians, because once the fertilization happened, even if the baby is only a couple cells, " god already sent the soul into the body ". Thus, killing it would be killing a life.
But with condom the fertilization doesn't happen. It can be bad for the church, yeah, but the two things are on a totally different scale.
If you have sex with a condom and do not confess it to the priest, you won't lose your soul because of that. It's bad but not annhilating your soul.
But using the pill or having an abortion, that probably will.
Probably, not surely. It depends on your brain understanding that you did a bad thing or not. For example, virginity:
Take one of those Incels we were talking about before. They are virgin, but not because they think being virgin is good, just because they didn't have the occasion.
God won't count them as virgins who fight for their virginity, and neither as people who LOST virginity but understood that what they did was bad.
God's judgement it's about etical mindset, not actions.
And also about you knowing god or not, obviously. If I have sex it's different from you having sex, because I've born in a family that told me not to do so since I was born, I know god. If you have sex and you don't even know it's bad, God won't put the weigh of what you did on you.
If you are asking yourself why having sex with a condom is still, even if a bit, bad, I can explain you why:
It's not bad because of killing or having pleasure sex, since you are not killing anyone and having sex for pleasure it's not bad ( as I explained ).
It's about not trusting god. What do I mean with this?
You are in love. You have sex with your partner, and you use the condom. Why you use it instead of not using it? Because you don't want the baby. And why you don't want the baby? Because " it's not the right time to have it ".
This is why it is considered a bad action. Not because of the sex. Sex itself as the act is not bounded to the sin committed. The sin commited is the pretendance of driving your life as the master of it while you are not.
God wants you ( and me, everyone ) to surrent to him and accept that he is superior to us and the mathematical life we are into. So, if for example you don't want the child because you don't have a safe job and you are scared economically, there is your mistake. God pretends you to try having the baby anyways, and in case you lose the job you definetely won't end up on the road.
What do I say about homosexual behavior in animals and how do I associate it with the human one?
The one in animals it's not instintual. It is ( and I woudn't like to say it because I know it sounds bad, so excuse me ) a mistake of nature. Just like you can find a turtle with two heads, you can find a specific specie on top of a million, and in that specie 1 exemplar on top of a million, that acts differently.
This does not prove that omosexuality is natural, not at all. It proves that omosexuality exists in nature, not that is natural.
You think that every person that is omosexual right now is like so because it's born like that? No. Not everyone at least. Not even half of half of it.
Gays who are born gay exist. Yeah. And their statistical rate is the exact same of the omosexual rate in animals. One per millions of millions.
The rest? People under some trauma.
What do you expect from a 4 year old child, to which you've read the story of " Cindarello " marrying another man, to be like? Eterosexual? Maybe. I am not saying gender-theory raised childs will all be gays or bisexual, but do not expect them not to be confused about it, because they definetely will.
I am not against gays! If a dude is gay, is gay. Who am I to judge or to create problem? I coud have a gay children aswell once I grow up!
But I don't go to a kid who didn't make up any questions at all and say " hey, if you want you can also look at boys at your school ".
It would be pathetic and wrong even saying " go look for a girlfriend " to someone so small, imagine talking about gender.
To me, the act of harassment ( the vocal one at least ) is bound to the words in it. Not to the person saying those words. Why? Because it's more equal (?)
" How are you doing | sexy ? "
See.. most people draw the line before " sexy ", and then they say " if it's unwanted, it's harassment ". Meaning that, if the person saying it is their partner, their close friend, the person they want to look sexy to... it's all okay because they are CONSENTING them to do so.
And this is good? Absolutly no. Why should ever be good and equal that an x person has the right to objectify you and y person doesn't? Every human being is equal. Every phrase like that is objectifying and objectifying is wrong undependently from how happy you are receiving the words.
This thing of " consenting " and everything that's done with consent it's okay, non-sexist and feminist approved, it's stupid, imho. If not stupid ( which may sound opinabile ), definetely convenient.
And I do not judge people for acting in their convenience, really, everyone does that.
But then do not defend yourself when your hypocricy gets on the table. Just plain admit it and you'll be fine with me.
Weren't all ( not all, but basically 99,9999999% ) women during human history CONSENTING to not have equal rights to men? You remember the women fighting the first wave feminists to defend their non-right to vote ? I do. They were " consenting " to be submitted by the male gender.
So, was it okay? Was it less bad, since they were consenting? Never. Consent does not imply absence of persuasion, thus just " consenting " it's not equal and not okay.
Consent PLUS absence of persuasion.. maybe is. Maybe. I mean, it's at least debatable. But mindlessly saying " I am consenting " has no sense.
I read a post on /r/Sex about some chick talking about how amazing this guy that she boned was, because he asked her for "microconsent" throughout the sex. So he'd ask: "Is it ok if I take this off?" "Mind if I touch you here?"
And the thing that she was most enthusiastic about, was that when at one point she said: "Nah, I don't want to actually fuck", he responded with: "Thank you", thanking her for the stuff that they had done thusfar.
It was seriously the most excruciatingly pathetic thing I've ever read. And her post was delivered in that annoying "sex positive" tone with smileys etc. So stuff like: "Micro-Consent is sexy! :)"
96 comments
1 glorica 2018-06-07
This is the future radical centrists want.
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
This, except objectification and internalized oppression are mandatory for all.
1 SAC-Lawn_Gnome 2018-06-07
/u/vraestin is
W👁️KE
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
He's basically reinventing fundamentalist Islam. The only religion that respects whammenz so much that it requires them to veil themselves in order to protect themselves from the corrupting male gaze and touch. This sinful male sexual energy is so powerful that some womyn even submit to internalized misogyny and allow themselves be "convinced" (read: coerced) to voluntarily submit to sex (rape) by Chad.
Consent is clearly for shitlords, because women can't decide for themselves who can sex them if they're not woke enough.
1 ChaddingTater 2018-06-07
this but unironically, fem-camps when?
1 Hippapalooza 2018-06-07
Ho Lee Shit this dude is fucking crazy
https://www.removeddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/8p97np/if_its_unwanted_its_harassment_imho_its/
1 SilverMars 2018-06-07
It's amazing the loop that happens.
1 YogSothothIsMyHomey 2018-06-07
Let’s be honest, if they allowed bacon and booze and eased up on the prayer and fasting, the whole world would be Muslim by now.
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
What you describe me reminds me a little of the Cult of Petersonism, which with a bit of luck might one day grow to be one of the top world religions.
1 Daxx46 2018-06-07
That's just Catholicism tho
1 broden 2018-06-07
For /u/vraestin
I've been such a fool, Vassili.
Man will always be man.
There is no new man.
We tried so hard to create a society that was equal,
where there'd be nothing to envy your neighbor.
But there's always something to envy.
A smile... a friendship.
Something you don't have and want to appropriate.
In this world... even a Soviet one...
there will always be rich and poor.
Rich in gifts...poor in gifts.
Rich in love...poor in love.
1 vraestin 2018-06-07
What is this? XD
I am new to reddit, I'm really not comprehending what's happening right now and what this topic is.
Why it's pink? O.o And why did I receive the notification after 1 hour? o.o
1 somegurk 2018-06-07
We are interested in your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
1 loperetti 2018-06-07
THIS IS A SCAM, DONT SEND MONEY.
1 vraestin 2018-06-07
The title is wrong btw, even if it makes me laugh. I never wanted to fondle her. I wanted the other guy to stop at max
1 YameteOniichanItai 2018-06-07
r u gay?
1 TayTaysMayoGussy 2018-06-07
/u/vraestin
Don't let ANYONE tell you you're not entitled to this girl's affection. If he gets to touch her, so do you, PERIOD. Fair's fair!
1 vraestin 2018-06-07
If I don't get to touch her, so doesn't he. Not the opposite.
1 TayTaysMayoGussy 2018-06-07
I admire you, you're an amazing male feminist. <3 Equality for all!!!
1 loperetti 2018-06-07
More hamfisted talking points next time.
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
Damn, I seriousposted a long diatribe to u/vraestin and he deleted his account. /u/vraestin, please read my message if you're still lurking here. We love you dude
Oh my sweet summer child. I'm already regretting creating this thread. Let me fill you in before the real meanies come in
In summary, don't pay much attention to us. /r/Drama is a sub for South Park centrist edgelords who want to make fun of everybody and anybody with absolute impunity. I created this thread because you make some funny leaps in logic in your post and it reunites a couple of meme-y, dramatic tropes about feminism, objectification, male feminists, "nice guys" and all that stuff that cynical jaded assholes like me love to make fun of. Seriously, run away.
Secondly, you seem young so I'll give you some free advice, lest life beat you down and turn you into a bitter /r/Drama poster:
1) Don't get hung up on your female friend not letting you touch her while some random guy (Chad) can. This is called "being friendzoned". It happens to a lot of guys and it sucks but dwelling on it leads nowhere. There's plenty of fish in the sea, yadda yadda
2) Whammenz (just like teh menz) can be inconsistent, especially where sexual stuff is concerned. I know, shocking, right, especially when it's woke feminists? Despite what she says the fact is she (subconsciously) doesn't mind being touched by this dude, hence why she doesn't bother to set boundaries with her while she does so with you. Hey, I'm sure that you prefer being touched by women that you personally find hot to being touched by women that turn you off. This is right-brained stuff, not left-brained.
3) Your friend might be somewhat of a hypocritical asshole on this issue, but people are sexual beings and they will like what they like. Henceforth thou shalt take thine feminist friends' opinions with a pinch of salt. You already noticed that some feminists don't take kindly to disagreement (to be fair, I disagree with most of what you said because it seems a little convoluted, but that's just my honest opinion).
4) Some guys in your situation (when confronted with seemingly irrational and inconsistent behavior by so-called 'femoids') end up on the other extreme and turn to RedPill or incel ideology, blaming whammenz' treachery and irrationality for their own shortcomings and/or lack of sex, and spouting "biotroofs" about why men need to be assholes to women in order to procreate. Seriously, don't do this unless you want to keep getting made fun of on boards like these. Both left-wing and right-wing "SJW"s exist and they're both equally hilarious. Sexuality is a messy subject and not something to be dogmatic or overly ideological about.
Remember, having a strong opinion on anything makes you a Nazi Bolshevik. Sorry again for introducing you to this hive of scum and villainy.
1 rationalhuckleberry 2018-06-07
The fuck is wrong with you.
Don’t tell the lolcow to flee!!!! REEEEEEEEeeeeeee!
Fucking Canadians.
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
Well fuck you, you ableist. I am a Belgian, we're basically the Euro version of Canadians and all of our neighbors make fun of us for it. So I know what it's like to be a fragile mayo who needs delicate aftercare after a mild roasting. I started to suspect vraestin might be one of these and it turns out he nuked his account.
1 rationalhuckleberry 2018-06-07
So you’re saying I was technically right?
Goddamn I love me.
Sadly, the leather daddies are too busy pounding bussy to give you the cuddles and affection you need after a light spanking.
A male feminist is a fragile mayo?! Say it isn’t so!
Now let’s kiss and make up bby. Good drama find, next time find us a lolcow who won’t delete.
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
Thank you daddy. Still acclimatizing to this sub like the filthy immigrant I am. But reading some of his responses deeper down in that thread it turns out, he's even more of an MGTOW/incel masquerading as a male feminist than I already thought.
1 rationalhuckleberry 2018-06-07
They’re really all the same. 🤷🏻♀️
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
It's rare to see a male feminist actually expressing their real thought process instead of repressing it and only speaking in inoffensive woke platitudes. The mechanism reveals itself.
1 heldex 2018-06-07
I can perfectly express myself with thought process ecc ecc. Thing is, I can only communicate that way with 1 person per time.
Try being attacked by 10 people or so and still answering in an immaculate way. It's impossible. If the person was only one, and asked me to explain better what I said instead of calling me potential-rapist, my answers would have been different.
1 heldex 2018-06-07
I am not english and english is not my main language, but I always tought I knew english good enough to have a conversation with people and comprehend what they were saying. Coudn't be more wrong when I started reading this post ( and then the sub ).
But I can google. And I'm having a lot of fun finding what all of that means XD Even if it's an " insult " directed to me, I still have lots of fun. Idk why.
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
To be fair, you're better off not knowing that meme stuff (it's not even proper English anyway). It really rots the brain. I remember being like you once, a pure and innocent soul. Don't become like me mah boi, do something positive with your life.
1 heldex 2018-06-07
Technically, regarding internet, I am not an innocent boy. I am 22 and I spent 12/h per day in average my past 10 years of life at the computer. I am not new to chats or forums, just new to reddit. And the reddit thameplate is extremely different ( i'd dare say " retro " ) to the rest.. else I would have no problem.
But really, I find funny those names and words, to the point where they do not hurt me even if they are directed to me. So it's okay :P
1 shallowm 2018-06-07
MGTOW stands for "Men Going Their Own Way", which is referring to men who have decided to cut themselves off from women in terms of romantic relationships, friendships, and often casual sex as well.
Incel is short for "involuntarily celibate", which is referring to people (generally men, there's a whole debate about whether women can be incels or not) who are unable to enter a romantic relationship and/or have casual sex.
By the way, what's your native language?
1 heldex 2018-06-07
I'm italian. I've learnt English through online games. ^
Regarding MGTOW, I may be one of them. But instead of refusing relationships and often casual sex, I just refuse sex.
Regarding Incel, that's the part where I feel a bit insulted XD My virginity is not at all caused by the fact I never had a woman to had sex with. I refused sex many times. But the fact I am unable to enter a romantic relationship is probably true. I have had girls who liked me in the past, but never got into a relation because I never liked them back. And the ones I liked never liked me back. :/
1 jaredschaffer27 2018-06-07
Belgium is pretty much a non-country, anyways
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
Joke's on you, I actually hate my own country (somewhat less so during footsoccer cups, but I'm eurotrash so that's to be expected). I would've much preferred to grow up as a burger being indoctrinated into reciting the Pledge of Allegiance at middle school. Imagine caring about a flag.
1 jaredschaffer27 2018-06-07
I associate the feeling of the flag with being top 10 in the Quality of Life Index, Human Development Index, having vast public forests in just my home state bigger than your postage stamp-sized country, having desirable tourist destinations, best schools on earth, best tech companies, etc.
I know that Belgium has a pissing boy statue as its main attraction and that you can't relate to any of the above, but at least you have Kevin De Bruyne, I suppose.
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
Literally who cares about quality of life, mah nibba? Let me quote Julius Caesar, the OG Chad:
That, and we aren't so deathly afraid of "socialism" that we think people being unable to pay their emergency medical bill is a fair trade-off. But you're rightburgerdick is bigger than waffledick, yadda yadda etc.
1 CarnistHappyCamp 2018-06-07
#MakeBelgianCongoBelgianAgain
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
TBF, I wouldn't wish Belgian colonialism on my worst enemy, except maybe if that enemy is the Dutch.
1 totalrandomperson 2018-06-07
Are you a W*lloon?
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
I'm a Flming, as illustrated by the narcissism of small differences. Wlloons tend to hate on the Fr*nchies.
1 jaredschaffer27 2018-06-07
If you're not American, then why are you even daring to speak to me?
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
Damn, you're one of those gorilla warfare Navy SEAL guys? I retract everything.
1 jaredschaffer27 2018-06-07
Oh, you aren't the person I was replying to. If you want to discuss this little mishap further, hmu on AiM. Username is jaredgayffer27.
1 error404brain 2018-06-07
Kid diddler or drug user ?
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
I'm triggered. It's the Dutchies that use drugs.
1 error404brain 2018-06-07
So you are flemish.
How does it feel to speak the boondock version of swamp german ?
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
I personally prefer Waffle German, but as I've come to accept no-one takes Flemish people seriously, I'll just go with whatever you want to name me.
1 error404brain 2018-06-07
It's no fun if you are self aware, tho.
How does it feel to have produced the hamplanet Maggie de Block and the SS reject Francken ?
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
Pour un franchouillard, tu t'y connais quand même bien en culture flamande.
1 error404brain 2018-06-07
Que veux tu, je bosse avec des flamand assez souvent. Ca finis par percoler.
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
WAT WALSCH IS, VALSCH IS! VLIEG DE BLAUWVOET, STORM OP ZEE! SCHILD EN VRIEND!
1 error404brain 2018-06-07
>Imagine killing people because they weren't brain dead enough to pronounce correctly swamp german.
How does it feel to know that's the last time you were relevant ?
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
Sorry, I had to get the obvious bait out of my system. Those 1302 memes are only really relevant for people from the provinces of West- and East-Flanders, which I'm not (based Brabander here). Antwerp actually fought with the Frenchies. So let's kiss and make up?
1 error404brain 2018-06-07
Uh, it feel weirds to know that I am living just a few dozen km away from another dramatard. Please, let's never meet.
Sure.
1 Daxx46 2018-06-07
Fuck you and all of you cunts, die in a fire
-Sincerely, Rwanda
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
NotAllBelgians
1 Yiin 2018-06-07
You wrote all this and there's no archive. Why haven't you offed yourself yet?
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
Because when I am astray from thee righteous path, I know the Lord will guide me to the light.
1 heldex 2018-06-07
It's me. I just wanted to tell you that I didn't delete my account because I felt bullied by the making of this post or anything... I did for other reasons which I'd prefer not to explain. But thanks anyways for caring ^^
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
Hey, thanks homeslice, that means a lot to me! But remember, young padawan: never do drugs.
Also, by now you've probably figured out that telling the chicas not to put out for other dudes is not the smartest idea if you're ever planning to make a career as a feminist. It's one of those pesky social unwritten rules. I know, it sucks, people can be pigheaded about this.
If you still feel strongly about your anti-self-objectification stance, I do seriously suggest converting to Islam or hardline Catholicism. Religious backing to your beliefs lends you more credibility nowadays than just holding those beliefs in isolation. You might just be a supreme gentleman who prefers "high-quality" women who save themselves for the special one.
Alternatively, you could loosen up a little and look up some tiddies in Bing Image search. Some people like to be objectified and even get paid for it. The sexual revolution of the 60s didn't happen for nothing. If that's the case, partakig in hobbies with fun people can be helpful to grind at those social skills and meet some girls, but that's really secondary to the pr0n.
1 heldex 2018-06-07
I already am. I am catholic christian.
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
Aha, everything makes sense now.
Unfortunately, feminists don't seem to get along with Catholics, at least not the internet versions I'm aware of. From what I've seen, they seem to be willing to cut more slack to muslims for some weird reason, even though the basic ideas seem to be pretty similar. I dunno, aren't Catholics a little stricter about stuff like abortion? Maybe that has something to do with it. I suppose swapping from one Abrahamic religion to the other is not in the cards?
1 heldex 2018-06-07
Yeah I understood that talking with them about this problem was not a good idea. And that's mostly because I expressed myself really bad and my words were misleading ( I think not even you got right what kind of relationship I wanted from her and what she didn't allow me to do ).
The only thing that made me feel bad was them thinking I am a potential rapist, because I don't like being associated with such people...
1 heldex 2018-06-07
Do you think that if I told them I am christian their thoughts and answer would have been different?
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
Well, they probably still wouldn't have liked it, but it does help to make sense of your positions. I guess they'd see a non-religious guy who holds those beliefs as a misogynist. But a deeply religious guy who holds those beliefs might just be seen as a deeply religious guy who holds some peculiar ideas about purity that are a legacy from an ancient tradition, and be more understanding as to how you developed your views.
Still, they probably won't like the fact that you appear to be low-key "policing" the girl's sensual behavior. You're a nice guy, but there are a lot of not-so-nice guys with a similar mindset who would call a woman letting herself be touched by a strange man a "whore".
Some of those guys often don't like women very much, and as such they give women a creepy vibe. As many women's top fears is being overpowered and raped by a man, an "uncomfortable" vibe is often associated in their mind with "rape". Hence all the talk about rapists even though you don't want to rape anyone, you just want her to not have pleasant-feeling contact with strange guys lest they "rape" her. (Then again, let's face it. If she says she likes it, is it really "rape"?)
1 heldex 2018-06-07
-> guys with a similar mindset who would call a woman letting herself be touched by a strange man a "whore"
Let me clarify what I failed to make you ( and them ) understand: By " touched " I didn't absolutly mean like touching her sensible parts or touching her in a sexually-arousing way. I ment literally " touched ", even for a mistake. How can I explain? It's hard. XD Ehm... One day, we were at this other guy's birthday. I was the one with the car and was meant to bring her and another girl home, after the party. So, when it was over, I accidentally touched her on our way to the car. Not like " touched " because I wanted to or something, you know, like " Hey, the car is there on the left " and then I grabbed ( gently, inadvertently, naturally, automatically... for a split second ) her arm. When I did this, she didn't go back or refuse my act of grabbing, but her eyes looked at me disgusted, as I was actually raping her or doing her something extremely bad. That day, when going home, I felt extremely bad ( and she knows it ), it has been probably the only day in my life where I wished to be dead. Because I knew that I didn't ever do anything technically wrong with her, so the only reason I thought she had, was thinking I was ugly to the point she woudn't even get touched by me. Because really... we are friends, normal friends. I didn't do anything to her ever. And when, some weeks later, SHE contacted ME ( because yes, at that time, she was the one contacting me, I didn't care that much about her and/or had other things to look for in life ) I told her how I felt and asked her why she did that. She said she was sorry and the face she made was not on pourpose and " automatic ". She told me that she had the same problem with other people too and everyone was making her notice.
Now, the probem is* that it isn't completely true. She told me that, yeah. But with the other guy she doesn't act like that.
She doesn't talk to him privately, not a lot and not about serious things. She told me about it. She also thinks he is an incurable masculist and a stupid person in general, while she multiple times told me " I can talk to you about those things because you understand ". Yet, irl, some weeks BEFORE the birthday, we went out, the guy said " I heard some feminists do not shave their arms, are you the same ? " ( innocently, I can tell ) And she put her arm close to him, saying: " Find it yourself, touch " The guy didn't even touch her. But she wanted or agreed on him to do so.
Now, my rage on her and the fact that I want revenge ecc ecc, comes from the fact that my relationship with her is unnatural. It works like that: When we chat, we chat about everything, act like friends ( if not more ) and all is cool ( and I'm special, remember, she said it ). While IRL? Irl I can't even touch or look her because she feels disgusted.
Then, if you are disgusted and this other guy is a stupid, why the hell he is allowed to touch you and I am not? What in the world is it? Is it justice? I don't think so.
So see? It's completely different from what they understood in the topic. She doesn't hate or push me away. She CALLS for me! But only virtually! In real life she doesn't want to come close. For x reasons she doesn't want to tell me.
Bah.
*the " is " is actually a " was ". All we are talking about happened an year ago and I already talked with her about this. Things evolved but didn't get any better sadly.
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
I think I get it, brah, but correct me if I'm wrong.
You feel like she treats you like a piece of shit, that you repulse her physically or something. Understandably, you're upset by this. She tried to make you feel better by providing you with a justification that absolves you from everything. But it seems the justification doesn't really hold, at least not in 100% of cases.
I think the reason people are attacking you in that thread is the level of your anger. Calling her a liar, demanding an explanation etc. People are often not very good at justifying why they feel a certain way, dude. She might even have believed her own justification, but people can be wrong about themselves.
Let's face it, some people are, physically, pretty socially awkward, and some other people are not awkward. Even though the guy might be an asshole (or Chad, as is the preferred nomenclature around here), he probably has an easy-going demeanor that exudes confidence. This kind of demeanor tends to put womyn (heck, people in general) at ease, while socially awkward behavior tends to repel some people (and especially whamen, who often consciously or unconscious fear being raped, which they associate with shifty behavior). I mean, I don't know if awkwardness is the reason, but if you spent 12 hours a day on the computer for 10 years (welcome to the club, brah), chances are you are more trained in mashing buttons than moving yourself around the physical world with grace and dignity.
Alternatively, it could be a body odor issue (which is a bitch as people really hate to bring it up and many people don't notice the smell of their own farts). Heck, maybe you're Adonis personified, but she just doesn't vibe with you in that way.
I mean, it's classic, really. Her mind prefers the words that come out of your mouth, but her body responds better to the smooth moves of Chad, to put it crudely. Even in non-sexual situations.
For a lot of dumb internet guys who have been through this "injustice", this is enough to start hating whammen and calling them femoids or something. But really, if you had to grow up among people who, in general, are stronger and hornier than you, I bet you'd be paranoid too, even though you might try to consciously fight it. Ever been to a bad neighborhood where you feared being robbed, or worse? Ever been to a bad neighborhood and came across a shifty-looking guy that looked like he might want something from you and could overpower you? Maybe even someone with a different skin color from you? I know, it's bad and unfair, but when it comes to these kind of things, it's the fear centers of the brain that are activated, and not any rational part, because the rational part isn't really well-equipped for life-and-death situations.
So, what to do about it? Maybe I'm an idiot and nothing I said has anything to do with your issues. But if you think there might be something to it, I suggest doing some sports, talking to a lot of different people and not let the negativity get to you. But then again, I'm posting on /r/Drama , so you might want to get advice from someone more well-adjusted, like that guy who your friend asked to touch her.
1 heldex 2018-06-07
I decided to google up what Chad means too late, because if I did first and clarify you what I'm gonna say, you woudn't have made this comment. XD
They are ( the girl and the guy ) 3 and 4 years younger than me. He's a normal guy and I'm definetely the more attractive of the 2. It's highly more probable that I am Chad to him then he being my Chad, really. XD
Well, regarding the ego part of the Chad ( feeling the best man ever existed ecc ecc ) then we probably challenge each other. We are both pretty convinced of being the best and the alfas. Differently from him I lived enough to understand that showing them to the others only keeps them away from me, so I stopped saying certain things loudly. He didn't, and is in fact judged by her and our other friends because of it.
I am not convinced that she's lying to me about not-liking him. I belive her, she dislikes him and has no interest about him whatsoever. She excused about the differences in her ways of acting with us by simply saying " I know him way before you ", and anyways, after that episode and after I told her about all this fact, she cared a lot more about those differences IRL. I mean, she cared to threat him like me and me like him, like... she found a way to threat me better and him less good, just so me and him could match.
And she did that just because of me and because I told her about how bad those differences made me feel. Once, she even said that with her own mouth ( not mouth, but via messages ), I even remember how it happened:
She asked me to talk about feminism to this guy. I told her that I would have never do because I would have never do something that could bring him closer to her likes, and then she replied: " Don't say that to me, keep the gelously by yourself because else I'll need to watch myself about what I do with him to not make you jealous ".
In little words... I made this post on feminism reddit, saying why for me harassing should be bad undependently from consent, and then brought up this example of why I thought so.. but THIS example is not my main problem in life, there is no girl and no guy to fight with for her feelings. It's just an example. I mean, they both exist and the situation is really like I described, but it sounds too main in my life and too anime-ish. It's not like that.
Sorry, those posts are challenging my english capabilities, I am making so much useless circles of words that you could end up not understanding and I'm sorry in advance for that ^
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
Your English is fine, dude.
Ah okay, I get it now. You're actually not really that bothered about the whole situation, except as an intellectual exercise. I actually thought for a moment that what you were really quite upset and angry about what this girl did, because of quotes like:
But I get it, it's just an example to demonstrate a rational, logical point. Not like an anime at all, except for the fact that you talk about it like it's an anime.
I mean, by your own admission, jealousy seems to be a recurrent theme in your life. Isn't that one of the cardinal sins in Catholicism? I was baptized but that was pretty much it. I was turned off by the "casual sex and homosex are evil" part of the culture, so I could be wrong. But one thing I remember from catechism is that we're all sinners. Maybe it's the near-pathological jealousy that those feminists were freaking out about and that causes your friend, whom you like in a totally non-sexual but ambiguously Platonic/romantic way, to express discomfort around you. If you're a Chad physically, I'm guessing that's what giving off the bad vibes.
Other than that, you seem like a cool dude. Well, except for the disapproving of casual and homosex bit, but that's only my opinion, you do you.
1 heldex 2018-06-07
As a Christian ( but even as a common dude ) I am not against Omosexuality, really. I mean, it depends. If we talk about rights, they are free to do whatever they want. I am not even against adoption. An african baby lives better with an omosexual family than dead in his native country ^
The only problem we christians have with omosexuals are on an etic level other than pratical ( we are against surrogate pregnancies or some things like that, but they have nothing to do with omosexuals, they are wrong undependently from the sexuality of the couple! :) ).
Omosexual families can't claim to be potentially equal to a straight family. I am NOT saying that 2 dads will definetely raise a child worse than 1 dad and 1 mom, because It could happen that those 2 dads love and care about the child much more than the straight family. But potentally, taking off the counts secondary things and putting on an equal level of love/care/raise capability 2 dads and 1 dad 1 mom, the straight couple will always be able to raise the child better.
There are some things that males have and females do not, and vice versa. One example is the empathy the mom has with the child. A man will never be able to be the perfect " mom " figure to his child, because of the lack of this boundary. STILL not saying the best he can reach is mediocrity, but just that he can't reach perfection.
This has very little to do with christianity. It's science. Science demostrated that the brain of the woman ( for example ) turns on faster and on a larger scale than the men's while, during the night, they ear the baby crying.
( does that mean the woman is the one who MUST get up for the child? no, the woman can slap the dad's shoulder and woke him up )
Nature ( or god ) made so that tho people of the same sex cannot procreate. A man will never be able to substitute perfectly a woman and vice versa.
If an omosexual comes to me and wants me to admit so, I won't. I'd rather be defined homophobic then, because think at it:
If the man can do anything the woman can and vice versa, perfectly, then why does sexuality exist? Why there is etero and omo ? You just stay with someone undependently from their gender, it won't matter anymore. You can't stay with someone just because you are sexually attracted to their specific genitals, that would be objectifying-y on so many levels.
And this is why, in fact, radical feminism always went against omosexuality. And why omosexuals think christianity it's against them.
We are not, really. If it's the rights you want, you can have them all, just don't put them on an etic level.
I am not homophobe, but if you put this fact on the level " you are either omosexual or omophobe ", I will be forced to chose the second.
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
Cool, dude. All I wanna say is: thanks for some insight into the feminist mindset!
1 heldex 2018-06-07
Regarding the question of the rape.. " if she likes it, is it really rape " ? I would need to write down a bible to make you understand my thought. Maybe I will do later, but lets see if I'm clear enough with this super-shortened version:
I am not against all sex. I am against all non-reproductive sex. Against " pleasure " sex. But not because of the pleasure itself, because of the positions we assume. Basically: In nature, every animal has his own sex position written in his brain as an instinct. This instinct represents the sex he is naturally brought to LIKE.
If the girl says she likes THIS sex, then yeah, it's not rape.
But if the girls asks for anal/oral sex, kamasutra positions ecc ecc.. for me it is. Not " rape ", but it's bad. Because she can't say she " I like it ". She can't know if she REALLY likes it or she got PERSUASED to like it. If you raise a girl in a society that sees anal sex as legit, and teaches women to like it, then she will probably like it. And her " like " for it won't be natural or personal, it will just be caused by persuasion.
So if a girl tells me " yeah I like and agree to have a d** in my anus ", I do not trust her.
I am not saying consent isn't enough. I am saying that consent in which there is no securety about persuasion, is not a real consent. That's it. Can't explain it better. XD
( to answer a possible question: " what do you know about natural sex, instincts ecc ecc? are you just a google man like everyone else? " -> No. I study Science and Technology of Animals Production an university, I know sex life and sexual instinct of animals better than a veterinary. It's thanks to what I've learnt in this faculty that I know see " pleasure-sex" bad.
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
So, let me get this straight, because it's not often we get an expert on animal reproduction around these parts.
You think strictly heterosexual, missionary, premeditated baby-spawning sex is the only kind of sex that is "written in" the human "brain as an instinct"? And that anal and oral sex are just some learned degeneracy imprinted onto us (especially helpless whammen) by corrupt cultures?
It's a pretty interesting philosophy, really. Very Jean-Jacques Rousseau, "man is corrupted by society" and all that good stuff, although I don't remember what he had to say about anal.
But reading your post again, you seem to be more concerned about the sex positions than the reproductive angle, because you say it's about "sex positions written in the brain" and not so much the pleasure. So you approve of pleasurable PIV sex? But you also dislike non-reproductive sex, full stop. Is that because of your moral principles or because of a preference (asexuality)?
Because I imagine that in prehistoric times, most homo sapiens weren't really thinking about putting appointments with the gynecologist in their day planner while fucking. I imagine the kids just kind of, popped out. Some premeditation to produce children might have accompanied it sometimes, but I can't imagine humans didn't sometimes just stop to fuck because it felt good. Then again, that might just be a product of that savage and corrupt hunter-gatherer culture.
Also, what do you say about homosexual behavior in animals (which is being documented more and more as time goes on)? I mean, sure, it doesn't produce offspring, but making that the gold standard for what is okay to do and what is not okay to do is pretty arbitrary. How do you decide whether that's deviant behavior or "instinctual"?
Moreover, how does "instinctual" behavior equal "moral" behavior? I mean, dogs have an instinct to sniff other dogs' butts, but I don't know if that's a thing that would make God particularly happy. And primates like chimpanzees can have some pretty nasty, violent, and brutish instincts, unless you believe that's just due to problematic chimp culture.
I dunno man, you're definitely interesting to talk to.
1 heldex 2018-06-07
The first lines you wrote down are extremely good. You got what I think perfectly right. I am not against pleasure nor reproductive sex. In fact, for me ( and for the church aswell! ) sex with pregnant woman or sex between a couple unable to have child, is perfectly okay, even if it's clare that they are doing it for pleasure only.
Technically, I am not against the sex position, I am against the fact that people say " I am born liking this kind of sex ". And I am against it because it's not true. Plain and simple. Here, I have no religion to bind to. I am against it because it's not true. The only sex we ( as prehistoric / noninfluenced / lobotimized people ) know is the missionary position, or x positions where basically no one is submitted.
So if you come saying " nono, I give consent because I like anal " you don't. For me you just don't. You are born in a place and saw things that made you like that, maybe, but you are not born and not designed to like it. So your " consent " is equal to the consent women had in 1800 to men, saying that " yeah, we don't need the right to vote, and we are consent about it ". You are giving consent, and this consent does not absolutly eliminate how much that act is wrong and/or disgusting.
FEMINISTS THEMSELVES argued with those words to the women of the time: " We know you are consenting man to not give you X right, but your consent is not sincere, you are just persuased ".
I really do not find a logical way why this can't be applied to sex. It can! Why people think that they cannot live without sex? That pleasure from sex is necessary? Because we live in a society where we see naked women everywhere. Our dicks are constantly pushed to stay erected. This is wrong on so many levels.
" Rape was common way before the society decided to over-sexualize everything "
Yeah. But that rape was not the same rape we see today, in terms of what happens during the rape. It was the same in terms of " lack of consent ", yeah, but it was definetely a different rape mechanically-wise.
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
Awesome! But why just those situations, though? If pleasurable sex is not haram, does that make it okay to fuck your partner with a condom, as long as it's vanilla missionary (and I assume, in the context of a monogamous relationship)?
Or is the condom Satanic treachery, conceived to circumvent the rules of our Omnipotent, Omnibenevolent, Omniscient Lord of when it's okay to have sex? (I mean, if that's the case, He should've really seen it coming. But condoms are pretty okay. Last thing I heard, Francis seemed to be pretty chill about them. Progress!)
Not responding to the rest of your post for now as it's very late.
1 heldex 2018-06-07
You are right, infact condoms, even being wrong for the church, they are on a TOTAL, EXTREMELY different level than other contraceptive methods. Using the pill it's like practicying abortion for christians, because once the fertilization happened, even if the baby is only a couple cells, " god already sent the soul into the body ". Thus, killing it would be killing a life.
But with condom the fertilization doesn't happen. It can be bad for the church, yeah, but the two things are on a totally different scale. If you have sex with a condom and do not confess it to the priest, you won't lose your soul because of that. It's bad but not annhilating your soul.
But using the pill or having an abortion, that probably will.
Probably, not surely. It depends on your brain understanding that you did a bad thing or not. For example, virginity:
Take one of those Incels we were talking about before. They are virgin, but not because they think being virgin is good, just because they didn't have the occasion.
God won't count them as virgins who fight for their virginity, and neither as people who LOST virginity but understood that what they did was bad.
God's judgement it's about etical mindset, not actions. And also about you knowing god or not, obviously. If I have sex it's different from you having sex, because I've born in a family that told me not to do so since I was born, I know god. If you have sex and you don't even know it's bad, God won't put the weigh of what you did on you.
1 heldex 2018-06-07
Actually, those last lines were not my opinion, just how the church says god thinks.
1 heldex 2018-06-07
If you are asking yourself why having sex with a condom is still, even if a bit, bad, I can explain you why:
It's not bad because of killing or having pleasure sex, since you are not killing anyone and having sex for pleasure it's not bad ( as I explained ).
It's about not trusting god. What do I mean with this?
You are in love. You have sex with your partner, and you use the condom. Why you use it instead of not using it? Because you don't want the baby. And why you don't want the baby? Because " it's not the right time to have it ". This is why it is considered a bad action. Not because of the sex. Sex itself as the act is not bounded to the sin committed. The sin commited is the pretendance of driving your life as the master of it while you are not.
God wants you ( and me, everyone ) to surrent to him and accept that he is superior to us and the mathematical life we are into. So, if for example you don't want the child because you don't have a safe job and you are scared economically, there is your mistake. God pretends you to try having the baby anyways, and in case you lose the job you definetely won't end up on the road.
God sends no one to the road.
1 FuckingWrites 2018-06-07
You guys fucking serious with this incredibly interesting and thought provoking conversation?! SOMEONE SHOW FUCKING BUSSY!!!!
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
Sorry, showing bussy is haram according to feminism. It is an unnatural act that is incentivized in the easily influenced by the pooftriarchy.
1 heldex 2018-06-07
What do I say about homosexual behavior in animals and how do I associate it with the human one?
The one in animals it's not instintual. It is ( and I woudn't like to say it because I know it sounds bad, so excuse me ) a mistake of nature. Just like you can find a turtle with two heads, you can find a specific specie on top of a million, and in that specie 1 exemplar on top of a million, that acts differently.
This does not prove that omosexuality is natural, not at all. It proves that omosexuality exists in nature, not that is natural.
You think that every person that is omosexual right now is like so because it's born like that? No. Not everyone at least. Not even half of half of it.
Gays who are born gay exist. Yeah. And their statistical rate is the exact same of the omosexual rate in animals. One per millions of millions.
The rest? People under some trauma.
What do you expect from a 4 year old child, to which you've read the story of " Cindarello " marrying another man, to be like? Eterosexual? Maybe. I am not saying gender-theory raised childs will all be gays or bisexual, but do not expect them not to be confused about it, because they definetely will.
I am not against gays! If a dude is gay, is gay. Who am I to judge or to create problem? I coud have a gay children aswell once I grow up!
But I don't go to a kid who didn't make up any questions at all and say " hey, if you want you can also look at boys at your school ".
It would be pathetic and wrong even saying " go look for a girlfriend " to someone so small, imagine talking about gender.
1 Karmaisforsuckers 2018-06-07
Deleted
1 Russiangreyman 2018-06-07
Snappy failed us.
1 lickedTators 2018-06-07
It was good shit while it lasted.
1 Vincent_Rubio 2018-06-07
Dude straight deleted his account.
1 TimothyGonzalez 2018-06-07
Apparently he deleted his life
1 shallowm 2018-06-07
This was the text of the OP:
1 XhotwheelsloverX 2018-06-07
Ala male feminist
1 AntiLuke 2018-06-07
Some of his comment remind me of the way Lovecraft would write people that spoke "archaically."
1 jimmahdean 2018-06-07
This guy sounds like he's 14 and doesn't understand how people and social interaction works, to be honest.
Doesn't seem malicious, just woefully ignorant.
1 Chicup 2018-06-07
I'm so glad I'm not trying to fuck 20 year olds anymore, and just slutty 30's and 40's. I think I've directly asked for consent once in my life.
If you can't tell shes up for it, you are doing it wrong.
1 TimothyGonzalez 2018-06-07
I read a post on /r/Sex about some chick talking about how amazing this guy that she boned was, because he asked her for "microconsent" throughout the sex. So he'd ask: "Is it ok if I take this off?" "Mind if I touch you here?"
And the thing that she was most enthusiastic about, was that when at one point she said: "Nah, I don't want to actually fuck", he responded with: "Thank you", thanking her for the stuff that they had done thusfar.
It was seriously the most excruciatingly pathetic thing I've ever read. And her post was delivered in that annoying "sex positive" tone with smileys etc. So stuff like: "Micro-Consent is sexy! :)"
1 Chicup 2018-06-07
May I thrust it in? May I take it out? May I thrust it in?
Ugh, 5k upvotes, reddit reddit reddit. This is why you will die childless and alone.
1 MrWalrusKing 2018-06-07
If you get to fuck your wife, so does everyone else.
1 TotesMessenger 2018-06-07
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1 kwawi 2018-06-07
Oh my, "blackpilled" sounds a little bit like "blacked". I'm hot and bothered now.
1 TheHeroReditDeserves 2018-06-07
Incels out out out 👉👉👉👉👉👉
1 Kahina91 2018-06-07
Knowing that an incel visited drama is like knowing the serial killer living in the neighborhood looked into your living room.
1 TheHeroReditDeserves 2018-06-07
The only know cure for Incel is gas.
1 storejet 2018-06-07
Dammit missed the drama again :(
1 kwawi 2018-06-07
https://removeddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/8p97np/if_its_unwanted_its_harassment_imho_its/
1 storejet 2018-06-07
I can't see the original post though.
1 CisWhiteMaleREEE 2018-06-07
Feminists confirmed to be either post-wall cat ladies or teenage hamplanets
1 imnotarose 2018-06-07
I can confirm cat lady but I guess my husband is a cat lady too, I guess