Also, I love how proponents of UBI think that ANY MOMENT NOW machines are going to steal everyone's jobs and that THE ONLY WAY to avoid such catastrophe is to give them $1200/month to jack off, when historically any new technological advancement has created just as many, if not more, jobs than it's taken away.
That isn’t a point against his. Some fields may lose jobs, but more are created elsewhere. No one complains about not being a dirtfarmer because of them thar masheens
Bruh, my point isn't that some jobs will be eliminated, it's that new jobs will come along. I hate UBI because it's a combination of two of my least-favorite things: Luditism and GIBS.
The whole TECHNOLOGY WILL TAKE MUH JOBS thing goes back hundreds of years.
machines will take muh mining jobs
locomotives will take muh carriage jobs
sewing machines will take muh seamstress jobs
tractors will take muh farm jobs
mechanization will take muh factory jobs
robots will take muh auto jobs
green technology will take muh coal jobs
robots will take muh auto jobs again, more
robots will take muh cashier jobs
YOU ARE HERE
robots will take muh uber driver jobs
algorithms will take muh stock broker jobs
Etc.
And yet here we are with 3.8 percent unemployment, lol. It's telling that people are sperging out over uber drives losing their jobs when that job didn't even exist five years ago.
Our current level of "automation" is basically limited to check-out clerks and the way forward is up a 300ft sheer cliff. Even relatively simple shit like self-driving cars are proving to be a pain in the ass to get right.
The problem is that the new jobs will require skills and training.
That's literally always been the case, why should this time be different?
People making a living as burger flippers won't be able to take these new jobs.
Then they'll be servers at hot New American gastropubs, which basically didn't exist 10 years ago. Or do some other service industry thing you or I haven't anticipated yet.
Because this time the new technology is being able to teach machines to make complex decisions. It means that, unless something involves serious thinking, a machine can be taught to do it. Just because new businesses and jobs will be created doesn't mean poor people can acquire the qualifications to do those jobs.
Dude do you really think that stuff like the sewing machine and the tractor didn't take low-skilled jobs?
It's entirely possible that new low-skilled jobs open up regardless. Who knows how many gig-economy type apps are in the pipeline. Like, you realize that robots doing things more cheaply drives down consumer prices, which means consumers have more money to spend on other shit, which may very well be performed by the very class of people you're talking about, right? I don't have the vision or the technical expertise to make it happen myself, but history has taught me that it's likely going to happen.
You clearly have never been part of the working class you obviously don't know what it's like. Maybe take a step out of your privileged white gated community and into the real world for once! People are having to work more and more and take on multiple jobs just to fucking survive. Universal income has been long overdue and the 1% have more then enough money to foot the bill.
People are having to work more and more and take on multiple jobs just to fucking survive.
If UBI isn’t generous enough to let you refuse work, it can only suppress wages and support a multiplication of lousy jobs (that you still can’t refuse).
You clearly have never been part of the working class you obviously don't know what it's like.
I grew up poor in the rural south you cocksucker.
Maybe take a step out of your privileged white gated community
Try again dipshit.
and into the real world for once!
Lololololol
People are having to work more and more and take on multiple jobs just to fucking survive.
I'd rather work 12 hours/day in two service industry jobs than 12 hours/day in the fucking coal mines or in a slaughterhouse or in a steel mill. You're acting like there being poor-ish working class people is some new phenomenon.
Universal income has been long overdue
Yeah dude the economy is doing so poorly right now lul
and the 1%
Kys
have more then enough money
You have enough money to give $5 to every homeless man you pass, but I guarantee you don't do it.
Lol this study doesn’t matter either way and Ford is obviously trying to pander to “muh welfare” guys by cutting it, but the crying on the subreddit is so fucking disingenuous
1.) they keep saying they “just want to finish he study” but that’s retarded cuz the results don’t matter — it’s way too small of a sample to scale up to a population. Furthermore if it doesn’t turn out well for UBI we know that they’re just gonna say “b-but it’s just cuz it’s on such a small scale and it wasn’t long enough and and and” etc
2.) they keep feigning disappointment at Ford for not keeping his promises which is absolutely fucking retarded because they don’t actually give a shit about what he promised or didn’t promise. If he ended up going back on his promises about taxes or unions or whatever you’d be fucking sure that they wouldn’t give a fuck about it
3.) most importantly whether or not we get UBI is not gonna be decided by a fucking study in leafland. It’s gonna be decided by whether or not the precariat and unnesseariat classes can convince the bourgeoisie and elite that they’re even worth saving, so all this hand wringing about the study is just a farce
If you do any back of the envelope calculation on UBI you quickly realize that the idea is insanely expensive. Even $500 a year, like a small supplement to the income of most people, would be like a medicaid size program.
I’ve read a couple of articles that talk about UBI replacing welfare and say that the money saved there will offset the cost of UBI. That all seems vaguely sensible but what about people who can’t work due to disability? Will their UBI be higher to cover their extra living costs (and therefore not exactly a universal basic payment)? What if people with disabilities are in receipt of payments for a specialised car or mobility vehicle? Will that aspect of the welfare system and the associated cost be retained?
The whole thing seems to be back of an envelope calculations right now and is often being pushed by people who don’t seem to understand how UBI will fit into the existing system and how it’ll be paid for. The end result is that UBI will likely be seen to fail by the decision makers in power and therefore there’s a good chance it will never be implemented. These demands for UBI without knowing what it is they’re asking for will just leave UBI on the shelf with all the other ideas that were tried and failed.
The Day of The Rake is coming soon, and all these whining leafs will be put in trashbags by the curb for the garbagement to take to the proper disposal facility and compost back into fertilizer for...Where the fuck was I going with this?
Lmao odds are they probably finished the studies and found out how catastrophically expensive it would be and they simply don’t have enough economic clout to back up the numbers.
Fucking Finland, a country much smaller than them tried and it completely flopped so I don’t know what these neets were expecting.
I don't understand why anyone would do this "pilot."
They give a small sum of money to a select group of people, and except that result to be the same when it is a large amount of money given to a lot of people.
46 comments
1 SnapshillBot 2018-07-31
You're oversimplifying a complex situation to the point of adding nothing to the discussion.
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1 BIknkbtKitNwniS 2018-07-31
Well yeah
1 thrillhouze- 2018-07-31
That could describe almost any Drama post.
1 TotesMessenger 2018-07-31
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1 SizeOfThisLad 2018-07-31
>BUT MUH NEETBUCKS
Also, I love how proponents of UBI think that ANY MOMENT NOW machines are going to steal everyone's jobs and that THE ONLY WAY to avoid such catastrophe is to give them $1200/month to jack off, when historically any new technological advancement has created just as many, if not more, jobs than it's taken away.
1 GeauxHouston22 2018-07-31
tell that to the travel agents
1 kanadskiy 2018-07-31
That isn’t a point against his. Some fields may lose jobs, but more are created elsewhere. No one complains about not being a dirtfarmer because of them thar masheens
1 ChipChippersonAMA 2018-07-31
More jobs are not being created than gained tho.
That being said I pose no solution
1 MayoIsSpicy 2018-07-31
Your honestly is refreshing
1 SizeOfThisLad 2018-07-31
Bruh, my point isn't that some jobs will be eliminated, it's that new jobs will come along. I hate UBI because it's a combination of two of my least-favorite things: Luditism and GIBS.
The whole TECHNOLOGY WILL TAKE MUH JOBS thing goes back hundreds of years.
YOU ARE HERE
Etc.
And yet here we are with 3.8 percent unemployment, lol. It's telling that people are sperging out over uber drives losing their jobs when that job didn't even exist five years ago.
1 GeauxHouston22 2018-07-31
tell that to the switchboard operators
1 SizeOfThisLad 2018-07-31
Are you really this thick?
1 GeauxHouston22 2018-07-31
tell that to the shitposters
1 Singulaire 2018-07-31
The problem is that the new jobs will require skills and training. People making a living as burger flippers won't be able to take these new jobs.
1 ChipChippersonAMA 2018-07-31
I mean loads of skilled and semi skilled jobs are going to evaporate due to automation
1 UBIisLazy 2018-07-31
Yea, in 500 years.
Our current level of "automation" is basically limited to check-out clerks and the way forward is up a 300ft sheer cliff. Even relatively simple shit like self-driving cars are proving to be a pain in the ass to get right.
1 SizeOfThisLad 2018-07-31
That's literally always been the case, why should this time be different?
Then they'll be servers at hot New American gastropubs, which basically didn't exist 10 years ago. Or do some other service industry thing you or I haven't anticipated yet.
1 Singulaire 2018-07-31
Because this time the new technology is being able to teach machines to make complex decisions. It means that, unless something involves serious thinking, a machine can be taught to do it. Just because new businesses and jobs will be created doesn't mean poor people can acquire the qualifications to do those jobs.
1 SwordfshII 2018-07-31
Lol. Give a real life example of that.
1 Singulaire 2018-07-31
how do you think a self-driving car works?
1 SizeOfThisLad 2018-07-31
Dude do you really think that stuff like the sewing machine and the tractor didn't take low-skilled jobs?
It's entirely possible that new low-skilled jobs open up regardless. Who knows how many gig-economy type apps are in the pipeline. Like, you realize that robots doing things more cheaply drives down consumer prices, which means consumers have more money to spend on other shit, which may very well be performed by the very class of people you're talking about, right? I don't have the vision or the technical expertise to make it happen myself, but history has taught me that it's likely going to happen.
1 SwordfshII 2018-07-31
So like every job ever?
People aren't owed money or jobs. Adapt.
1 Women-Warriors 2018-07-31
You clearly have never been part of the working class you obviously don't know what it's like. Maybe take a step out of your privileged white gated community and into the real world for once! People are having to work more and more and take on multiple jobs just to fucking survive. Universal income has been long overdue and the 1% have more then enough money to foot the bill.
1 SwordfshII 2018-07-31
If UBI isn’t generous enough to let you refuse work, it can only suppress wages and support a multiplication of lousy jobs (that you still can’t refuse).
1 SizeOfThisLad 2018-07-31
I grew up poor in the rural south you cocksucker.
Try again dipshit.
Lololololol
I'd rather work 12 hours/day in two service industry jobs than 12 hours/day in the fucking coal mines or in a slaughterhouse or in a steel mill. You're acting like there being poor-ish working class people is some new phenomenon.
Yeah dude the economy is doing so poorly right now lul
Kys
You have enough money to give $5 to every homeless man you pass, but I guarantee you don't do it.
1 EasySchmitty 2018-07-31
Oh this is glorious
The most Reddit country cancelling its most Reddit program
The tears will flow for days, lads.
1 MooseHeckler 2018-07-31
Leaf fragility.
1 IFuckedZoeQuinn 2018-07-31
My free money!!!!! I don't WANNA get a job mom! 😢😭😢
1 GayLordMcMuffins 2018-07-31
Too bad bucko, now pucker yer juicy lips and start suckin on some shenis, mommy needs to feed her cocaine addiction!
1 myshl0ng 2018-07-31
Commie revolution when?
1 Marblehornets01 2018-07-31
Lol this study doesn’t matter either way and Ford is obviously trying to pander to “muh welfare” guys by cutting it, but the crying on the subreddit is so fucking disingenuous
1.) they keep saying they “just want to finish he study” but that’s retarded cuz the results don’t matter — it’s way too small of a sample to scale up to a population. Furthermore if it doesn’t turn out well for UBI we know that they’re just gonna say “b-but it’s just cuz it’s on such a small scale and it wasn’t long enough and and and” etc
2.) they keep feigning disappointment at Ford for not keeping his promises which is absolutely fucking retarded because they don’t actually give a shit about what he promised or didn’t promise. If he ended up going back on his promises about taxes or unions or whatever you’d be fucking sure that they wouldn’t give a fuck about it
3.) most importantly whether or not we get UBI is not gonna be decided by a fucking study in leafland. It’s gonna be decided by whether or not the precariat and unnesseariat classes can convince the bourgeoisie and elite that they’re even worth saving, so all this hand wringing about the study is just a farce
1 LongPostBot 2018-07-31
Posts like this is why I do Heroine.
I am a bot. Contact for questions
1 LemonScore_ 2018-07-31
If you think four short paragraphs is a long post you may be illiterate.
1 watermark02 2018-07-31
If you do any back of the envelope calculation on UBI you quickly realize that the idea is insanely expensive. Even $500 a year, like a small supplement to the income of most people, would be like a medicaid size program.
1 thrillhouze- 2018-07-31
I’ve read a couple of articles that talk about UBI replacing welfare and say that the money saved there will offset the cost of UBI. That all seems vaguely sensible but what about people who can’t work due to disability? Will their UBI be higher to cover their extra living costs (and therefore not exactly a universal basic payment)? What if people with disabilities are in receipt of payments for a specialised car or mobility vehicle? Will that aspect of the welfare system and the associated cost be retained?
The whole thing seems to be back of an envelope calculations right now and is often being pushed by people who don’t seem to understand how UBI will fit into the existing system and how it’ll be paid for. The end result is that UBI will likely be seen to fail by the decision makers in power and therefore there’s a good chance it will never be implemented. These demands for UBI without knowing what it is they’re asking for will just leave UBI on the shelf with all the other ideas that were tried and failed.
/seriouspost
1 LongPostBot 2018-07-31
You can type 10,000 characters and you decided that these were the one's that you wanted.
I am a bot. Contact for questions
1 thrillhouze- 2018-07-31
Uh, it’s “ones”. Fucking robocunt.
1 RichEvansSextape 2018-07-31
Isn't Toronto the Detroit of Canada?
1 watermark02 2018-07-31
Toronto basically is Canada. Give or take Montreal, Vancouver, and some oil somewhere any between.
1 RichEvansSextape 2018-07-31
Oh man, I dare you to post that to a Montreal or Vancouver sub and watch the shit fly.
1 Gtyyler 2018-07-31
I live in Montreal, that is correct. The only reason why Montreal can be better is that it is closer to Manhattan by plane than Toronto is.
1 Gtyyler 2018-07-31
That is Windsor, Ontario. Toronto is more like Buffalo, New York; a shithole that tries to be more important than it is.
1 ChipChippersonAMA 2018-07-31
Are they cancelling the chicks for free program too
1 911roofer 2018-07-31
The Day of The Rake is coming soon, and all these whining leafs will be put in trashbags by the curb for the garbagement to take to the proper disposal facility and compost back into fertilizer for...Where the fuck was I going with this?
1 PracticalOnions 2018-07-31
Lmao odds are they probably finished the studies and found out how catastrophically expensive it would be and they simply don’t have enough economic clout to back up the numbers.
Fucking Finland, a country much smaller than them tried and it completely flopped so I don’t know what these neets were expecting.
1 SwordfshII 2018-07-31
I don't understand why anyone would do this "pilot."
They give a small sum of money to a select group of people, and except that result to be the same when it is a large amount of money given to a lot of people.