At four, it wasn't a big deal because I didn't know boys and girls were all that different yet. And really, that young, they're not. There's no medical intervention needed until closer to puberty, and just blockers at first, no replacement hormones until they're old enough to know for sure.
Puberty was bad enough that I wanted to neuter myself, but not quite bad enough to make me actually go through with it. Of course now I'm kinda kicking myself that I didn't.
I don’t understand any of this transsexual stuff. To me it just looks like guys are cutting their cocks off and taking estrogen to become convincingly feminine men, then having to stimulate a pus filled orifice multiple times a day so it doesn’t weld itself shut. Then again I’m a getiatric who should statistically be dead before the next election so what the fuck do I know.
Society at large entangles what it means to be male/female, masculine/feminine, or a man or a woman. It's hard to understand these as different categories of traits.
Gender dysphoria shows up in a lot of different ways, but this thread sounds a lot like my experience. The face and body I see in the mirror aren't "me" somehow.
Ok, whatever. But why is it so hard to understand that you are a minuscule minority and you're being way too loud about what makes you such a minority? I'm fucking fed up with your bullshit immature drama, it's been going on for years now and I feel like you may be platformblocking new stuff.
The most obnoxious people of any minority group are the ones who make their minority status their "thing" because they have nothing better to do with their lives.
For example, me when I'm talking about pedo shit. No, pedophiles are not a minority group, but I seem to treat them like one.
I have two problems with the activist trans community.
One, why don't you just do the obviously decent thing, you are clearly useless no matter how you look at it and you're undeniably an evolutionary failure.
Two, when you do it, somehow society is to blame. What the actual fuck? Society can't control nature, we're not there yet.
It seems like there's a real pendulum-swing backlash to the trans acceptance movement that started in earnest a few years ago. Can anyone who actually goes outside tell me if this is just going on inside my bubble or an actual social phenomenon?
Most trans people are pretty low-key and just want to be able to take a piss in the restroom in peace without some soccer mom screaming at them and trying to get them arrested.
I think the problem is the most psychotic 10% end up on the internet loudly yelling about how you're cringey and transphobic if you think trans women aren't exactly the same as cis women. So people who spent too much time on the internet think that this represents all trans people and there's a huge backlash.
The whole Trans crowd is crazy, and the people supporting and cheering them along are either just as brainwashed as the transgenders or are ignorant. No one in their right mind would support someone blinding themselves or cutting off their limbs, So what's different about genitally mutilating yourself? it's not a coincidence that trannies have a whole bucket of other mental illnesses associated with their condition, and they almost always self-loathe....that seems like far likely motivation for hurting themselves rather than "they were born to be women although they have no biological trace of the female sex inside their body"
if you had no media outlets shoving this shit down your throat, no one NO ONE would support such an unnatural thing. The effect of the media is quite impressive tbh, they could show a picture of an apple and through time convince you that it is actually a carrot.
No one in their right mind would support someone [...] cutting off their limbs
Actually, there are cases where a person who wants to cut off one of their limbs ( Saying it's not part of their body or something ) is actually amputated by a doctor. Of course, it's a last ressort thing when no other solution works, but it happens.
Of course i know that, that's why i brought it up. But nearly every one who hears about Body Integrity Identity Disorder is disgusted by the actions that they go through to align with their mental illness...that is until you hit them with "how is this different from SRS?" and they get started for a second and then change their minds and go "yeah i guess it's not that bad if it makes them happy"
but everyone's initial genuine reaction to shit like this is utter disgust.
but everyone's initial genuine reaction to shit like this is utter disgust.
I think that's not really the point, though. Yes, cutting your limb is disgusting, in a way, because you wouldn't want that to happen to you, and it has devastating effects in many cases.
The point isn't whether you would want that to happen to you, or if you would want that to happen to you if you had BIID. In fact, I would wager most people with BIID, in a vacuum, do not want to get amputated.
The problem is that in some cases, there is no better solution. People can rage and throw fit about how stupid the solution is, but there is no better solution - in some cases.
The same goes for transgender people. None of them actually want to butcher their body, but that's just the best solution for them, they understand that, and thus demand to get the better solution.
If tomorrow a pill is invented to cure gender dysphoria, no transgender person would ever get operated.
but that's just the best solution for them, they understand that, and thus demand to get the better solution.
I simply refuse to believe that, maybe "curing" transgenderism in a vacuum is impossible, but i believe treating underlying mental issues that are rife in transgender people could lead to curing their desire to change their gender as a byproduct. I've read a testimony of a person who was raped by father when around the time he was hitting puberty (a very sensitive period for personality and identity development) and due to this, he kept waking up in the middle of the night wanting to rips his penis out and after basically begging for HRT, he was given the treatment. but after the psychologist that he was working with convinced him that his male identity is not what caused his father to rape him and that led him into embracing his male identity and he got off HRT. I believe many cases are like this, you can't just open a DSM V and see "the most effective cure is SRS" and go "that's it, then!"
i believe treating underlying mental issues that are rife in transgender people could lead to curing their desire to change their gender as a byproduct.
There are probably mental issues ( Or life experiences that lead to mental issues ) that cause one to believe they have gender dysphoria. But there is also probably simply more mental issues in people genuinely afflicted with gender dysphoria.
As we understand now, gender dysphoria results from a brain that is midway between the two sexes, but closer to the sex opposite from the body. This is almost assuredly from birth ( And in fact it is supposed the difference between a trans woman's ( man's ) brain and a natural woman's ( man's ) brain are mostly the result of the brain growing with male ( female ) hormones ) so there is reason to assume gender dysphoria can't be cured, at all, for the foreseeable future.
Now it is possible this mismatch, which again causes a brain that isn't exactly like a normal person's brain, of either sexes, causes mental problems, either directly ( Because it's not how the brain was intended to work ) or indirectly ( Because feeling deeply unhappy isn't the best for mental health ).
I've read a testimony of a person who was raped by father when around the time he was hitting puberty (a very sensitive period for personality and identity development) and due to this, he kept waking up in the middle of the night wanting to rips his penis out and after basically begging for HRT, he was given the treatment. but after the psychologist that he was working with convinced him that his male identity is not what caused his father to rape him and that it wasn't his fault he embraced his male identity and he got off HRT.
The thing to understand is that this case wasn't exactly handled badly. Depending on the age of that person, more specifically if they were still undergoing puberty, it might have been seen as a better decision to stop their puberty ( And thus prevent any undesirable effect should they actually suffer from gender dysphoria ) and possibly risk some long term effects than to keep going with puberty and prevent and risk the contrary. And sure, that might seem bad, but either way, you have to take a bet.
I believe many cases are like this, you can't just open a DSM V and see "the most effective cure is SRS" and go "that's it, then!"
I think you're confusing what the patient diagnoses with what they will be diagnosed with by professionals and finally what they actually have.
The person thought they had gender dysphoria. They didn't, it was rightfully assessed, and they didn't undergo anything too drastic - and as I explained, if the person was undergoing puberty, they were gonna risk something in the process either way. The system worked as intended.
Mind you, even people who go through the whole ordeal aren't guaranteed to have ( had ) gender dysphoria. They were only diagnosed with it by professionals. Now yes, this means there is a risk someone gets operated, this doesn't solve their problems, they essentially just ruined their life. AFAIK this happens only around 2% of the time when someone is operated - with the approval of the state program in France, might vary by country.
Now you also have to consider that you don't reach that high a "success rate" ( Which in itself is a fallacy because this is assuming patients are only those operated, which isn't true, see rest of the sentence for the reason why ) without also turning down people who have gender dysphoria. No diagnosis can be 100% certain.
I think one of your errors is thinking that 1. "checking" for other causes of the self diagnosis of gender dysphoria isn't done right now 2. people who self diagnosis gender dysphoria but aren't recognized as such by medical professionals matter as to what the "cure" for gender dysphoria should be. This is like asking that because some people mistake a certain disease for cancer, we should reconsider what is currently recommended to treat cancer ( Which is in that case a little more absurd because cancer has many treatment options chosen on a case-by-case basis ) as inadequate because it would severely harm the people who think they have cancer but don't.
What is or isn't appropriate for people with gender dysphoria only applies to people who actually have gender dysphoria. People who self-diagnosis with gender dysphoria, until they are legitimately diagnosed with it, are irrelevant to the matter. What is relev
Eh, maybe particular parts, but not the whole brain. I think probably a lot of people have a mosaic of more male and more female parts of their brains who are just fine with their gender being the same as their sex. I would think more it's related to the parts of the brain that give us a sense of self, given that trans people report such a sense of 'rightness' and relief when they transition.
What I find most troubling about SRS is the way we are using a very aggressive and permanent surgical solution to treat what is obviously a purely mental disorder. It’s no better than cutting a hole in someone’s skull to “let the demons out”. It’s typical Western hubris that instead of looking at gender, looking as to why there would be toxicity for some people in the way we treat and categorise men and women, we just get out the scalpels and cut the fuckers up. If there was more leeway within us culturally for gender behaviour, there wouldn’t be this horrible ‘need’ to destroy people’s genitalia. This seems to changing, but we are going to look back at HET, puberty blockers and SRS as brutality akin to forced lobotomies and surgery without anaesthesia.
What I find most troubling about SRS is the way we are using a very aggressive and permanent surgical solution to treat what is obviously a purely mental disorder.
We know that SRS doesn't work. It's a horrific failure, with a long term morbidity rate that is 20 times higher than average. Bizarrely, in light of this hard evidence, you'll see a lot of trans advocates trying to either down play this, or otherwise claim that there is some flaw in the data.
It's insanity.
The latest gambit they have is to claim that if you transition a person as a child, then they grow up to have the same rates of suicide as biological females - but the problem with this claim is that compared to the other longitudinal studies (30+ years) the evidence backing this claim up is practically non-existent. It definitely reeks of activists desperately scrambling to try and come up with some counter talking point.
And that's the problem in a nut shell - It's all talking points and identity politics and muddled with intersection feminism and far left politics. Doctors are literally proscribing death to patients and they're okay with it because it is "politically correct" (finally, a very accurate usage of the word!)
What I find most troubling about SRS is the way we are using a very aggressive and permanent surgical solution to treat what is obviously a purely mental disorder.
Again, best solution VS good solution.
Sure, it's not a great solution, but for now, it's that or leaving people to suffer. And again, the particular problem at hand doesn't seem to be one medicine will be able to treat another way within anything close to the near future, so waiting seems like unnecessarily cruel.
Maybe when another solution becomes more realistic, even if it isn't applicable yet, waiting for it could become a better alternative than SRS, but for now you're asking people to wait for something that doesn't look so likely to become a reality within their lifetime.
It’s no better than cutting a hole in someone’s skull to “let the demons out”.
I think there's a huge difference between lobotomy as a "cure" for mental disorder and changing the body to address a mismatch between the body and the brain. Sure, changing the brain might be better, but we're not there, so that's a sort of moot point.
It’s typical Western hubris that instead of looking at gender, looking as to why there would be toxicity for some people in the way we treat and categorise men and women, we just get out the scalpels and cut the fuckers up. If there was more leeway within us culturally for gender behaviour, there wouldn’t be this horrible ‘need’ to destroy people’s genitalia.
That is just not how gender dysphoria works. One of the first things transgender people will be told when they see a psychiatrist for it is that this shouldn't be about femininity or masculinity but about being a woman or being a man.
To a trans woman, whether they can be a masculine or feminine man, she's still a man, so that won't change anything to her situation - maybe alleviate it a bit, but not solve the problem, at all.
This seems to be changing, but we are going to look back at HRT, puberty blockers and SRS as brutality akin to forced lobotomies and surgery without anaesthesia.
These will probably be looked back as an extreme solution to a problem that in the future will look so much simpler to solve, but no, I think there's a huge difference between lobotomy and SRS.
Lobotomy barely could be called a solution to the associated problems because it was more akin to beheading a patient to rid them of a headache than anything else regarding its approach to problem-solving. Literally in some cases since this was lethal in quite many cases, and in others the patient was left completely non-functional, unable to walk and/or talk.
SRS, in a way, works. Sure, there are loads of downsides, but it makes most people who undergo it happier - of course those people are only those diagnosed with high chances of success to begin with. I'm not saying it's a very good solution, because again, there is huge room for improvement, but that room, right now, cannot really be used, and any other solution, including waiting for an alternative that doesn't seem likely to be there within our lifetimes, is worse.
But again, I agree SRS is an imperfect solution that should be improved upon when possible, but it's the best there is if carefully used, and by most metrics, it works. And before you bring up the increased post-op suicide rate ( Which AFAIK is a lie to begin with ), do consider most people will try this solution before deciding whether to end their life or not. People tend to not kill themselves if there's still a reasonable hope to solve their problem, but once that reasonable hope ( SRS ) has proved not to work, there's only suicide left.
I disagree completely with your characterisation of this process. I don’t have to bring up suicide, because you did, but what I will bring up is the absolutely shocking post surgery and long term health outcomes people who go through SRS have. What I really don’t like about people like you is the way you seek to minimise these poor outcomes. They are horrific, high and you have them forever. It is surgery on one of the most delicate parts of a humans body, with many many nerve endings and a vital impact on people’s mental and physical well being. Robbing someone of sexual function just so that they have deformed hole where their dick used to be is barbaric. It isn’t a vagina and it will never one. What is being created is eunuchs, a barbaric practice we supposedly left behind at the beginning of the modern era. You cannot just mould a human body into what the mind wants and believes. The mind is free to fly into all kinds of flights of fancy, whereas the body is very much grounded in the here and now. It’s a physical thing with physical limitations.
And honestly I think the people who see gender as a continuum have it right. If there are multiplied ways to be a man or a woman, why are you going through a violent medical procedure to conform to one particular narrow definition? It’s ok to be a masculine woman or an effeminate man, at least it should be.
I disagree completely with your characterisation of this process. I don’t have to bring up suicide, because you did, but what I will bring up is the absolutely shocking post surgery and long term health outcomes people who go through SRS have. What I really don’t like about people like you is the way you seek to minimise these poor outcomes. They are horrific, high and you have them forever.
As opposed to what, living a life that drives people to suicide ? You honestly look like a child who thinks that if we close our eyes and keep saying SRS has adverse side effects, then maybe transgender people will just start spontaneously feeling well without it.
Also the whole time I thought that by SRS you meant the whole deal, facial féminisation/masculinisation, boobwork ( Either way ), and all, but you're actually fixated on genital surgery, which isn't even used by all transgenders. This really makes me wonder how informed you are about all this, especially because...
It is surgery on one of the most delicate parts of a humans body, with many many nerve endings and a vital impact on people’s mental and physical well being. Robbing someone of sexual function just so that they have deformed hole where their dick used to be is barbaric. It isn’t a vagina and it will never one. What is being created is eunuchs, a barbaric practice we supposedly left behind at the beginning of the modern era.
No...just...no. Sure, there are very bad results, true, mostly in some western countries, and FtM SRS is much tougher than the MtF one, but no, it's more than putting a hole where there was a pillar and vice versa.
A fair share of operated transgender can reach orgasm, have regular sex, some aren't that far off the real thing from a functional and aesthetic perspective. I advise you to inform yourself about this, because you really seem to be talking out of your #ss.
You cannot just mould a human body into what the mind wants and believes. The mind is free to fly into all kinds of flights of fancy, whereas the body is very much grounded in the here and now. It’s a physical thing with physical limitations.
What's the part of "it works" you can't fathom ? You think you're the first to have those concerns ? The Hippocratic Oath has been a massive concern about transgender people, yet it's recognized that SRS is still a valid solution; Not all transgender people go through with it, but many do, and are happier for it.
And honestly I think the people who see gender as a continuum have it right. If there are multiplied ways to be a man or a woman, why are you going through a violent medical procedure to conform to one particular narrow definition? It’s ok to be a masculine woman or an effeminate man, at least it should be.
An effeminate man is still a man, a masculine woman is still a woman, so no, you don't go from one gender to the other ( Basic etymology of trans-gender ) by changing how masculine or effeminate you are. Again you seem hugely misinformed on what transgenderism actually is.
Seriously, whatever. Everything you've wrote is full of glaring inconsistencies, much like Trans activism in general. Please don't write me another fucking novel.
Nobody discusses trans people and their issues in my circle. I admittedly have a small circle and live in the Bible Belt. I also lived in New England (aka Sodom and Gomorra) during the height of the Caitlyn Jenner phenomena and it still didn’t seem to come up a lot. I think it’s still regarded as sensitive and a “tread lightly” sort of thing.
I live in pretty conservative area, all the trannies I have met IRL (all 3 of them) have been decent people who just want to live as much as the opposite gender as possible. None of the TIMs I have ever known IRL have been hellbent on being in women's locker rooms or domestic violence shelters. It's the internet trannies that make them look like psychotic degenerates. Maybe that, or maybe they really are as fucked up as the rest of them, they just realize that the majority of conservative/religious people in the area aren't going to put up with their shit, and they'd rather dial it back and not get murdered/railroaded.
I was an sjw and pro trans- flipped sides when men (trans woman) started beating up actually women for being terfs (and also the lefts support of Islam). Trans women are aight but they ain't woman and threatening to beat me up for saying that will push me further away. If you go on gender critical most posters were liberal feminists.
Looking at your posting history, you're a transphobe AND a racist. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that this is a sub that's like T_D. It's not. Go back to /pol/, retard.
it means "fear or dislike". so it can simply mean someone who dislikes something, doesn't have to be fear. the term transphobe is quite correct for anyone trash talkin the dickgirls.
52 comments
1 SnapshillBot 2018-08-09
Hell hath no fury like a suburban soccer mom cucked, I guess.
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1 glorica 2018-08-09
Not being able to ping these retards is pure torture. Almost as bad as being a transgender four year old.
1 vir_pedohebephile 2018-08-09
At four, it wasn't a big deal because I didn't know boys and girls were all that different yet. And really, that young, they're not. There's no medical intervention needed until closer to puberty, and just blockers at first, no replacement hormones until they're old enough to know for sure.
Puberty was bad enough that I wanted to neuter myself, but not quite bad enough to make me actually go through with it. Of course now I'm kinda kicking myself that I didn't.
1 glorica 2018-08-09
I don’t understand any of this transsexual stuff. To me it just looks like guys are cutting their cocks off and taking estrogen to become convincingly feminine men, then having to stimulate a pus filled orifice multiple times a day so it doesn’t weld itself shut. Then again I’m a getiatric who should statistically be dead before the next election so what the fuck do I know.
1 vir_pedohebephile 2018-08-09
Society at large entangles what it means to be male/female, masculine/feminine, or a man or a woman. It's hard to understand these as different categories of traits.
Gender dysphoria shows up in a lot of different ways, but this thread sounds a lot like my experience. The face and body I see in the mirror aren't "me" somehow.
1 UniverseInH 2018-08-09
Ok, whatever. But why is it so hard to understand that you are a minuscule minority and you're being way too loud about what makes you such a minority? I'm fucking fed up with your bullshit immature drama, it's been going on for years now and I feel like you may be platformblocking new stuff.
1 vir_pedohebephile 2018-08-09
The most obnoxious people of any minority group are the ones who make their minority status their "thing" because they have nothing better to do with their lives.
For example, me when I'm talking about pedo shit. No, pedophiles are not a minority group, but I seem to treat them like one.
1 UniverseInH 2018-08-09
I have two problems with the activist trans community.
One, why don't you just do the obviously decent thing, you are clearly useless no matter how you look at it and you're undeniably an evolutionary failure.
Two, when you do it, somehow society is to blame. What the actual fuck? Society can't control nature, we're not there yet.
1 TERF_facts 2018-08-09
A tranny AND a pedo, who'd've thunk it? Please tell me you're a NEET too so it completes the /r/drama trifecta and then we can make you King
1 vir_pedohebephile 2018-08-09
I guess it goes without saying that everyone here is an autist.
1 LedinToke 2018-08-09
nou
1 putdrugsinyourbutt69 2018-08-09
You got it dead on accurate there
I dont think you are misunderstanding anything
1 DarthNightnaricus 2018-08-09
Fuck off, retard
1 LightUmbra 2018-08-09
Imagine getting mad amount a /r/drama comment
1 glorica 2018-08-09
What the fuck is a female brain? Did a mad scientist switch the brains of a man and a woman?
1 DarthNightnaricus 2018-08-09
Transgender women have neurons in their brain that are otherwise only found in cis women.
1 parameciidae 2018-08-09
hmmm, do you have a link to the study? I think saying trans women have female brains is vastly overstating the findings.
1 shallowm 2018-08-09
Not if you just keep your feminine penis.
1 FearOfBees 2018-08-09
Reverse ping them. Make a liberal account saying you hate drumpft and then direct them to your main account talking shit here. Should work yeah?
1 Pee_Van_Queef 2018-08-09
absolute genius
1 funerary_planet 2018-08-09
It seems like there's a real pendulum-swing backlash to the trans acceptance movement that started in earnest a few years ago. Can anyone who actually goes outside tell me if this is just going on inside my bubble or an actual social phenomenon?
1 seshfan2 2018-08-09
Most trans people are pretty low-key and just want to be able to take a piss in the restroom in peace without some soccer mom screaming at them and trying to get them arrested.
I think the problem is the most psychotic 10% end up on the internet loudly yelling about how you're cringey and transphobic if you think trans women aren't exactly the same as cis women. So people who spent too much time on the internet think that this represents all trans people and there's a huge backlash.
1 gumble212 2018-08-09
Hah
1 throwaway_account159 2018-08-09
The whole Trans crowd is crazy, and the people supporting and cheering them along are either just as brainwashed as the transgenders or are ignorant. No one in their right mind would support someone blinding themselves or cutting off their limbs, So what's different about genitally mutilating yourself? it's not a coincidence that trannies have a whole bucket of other mental illnesses associated with their condition, and they almost always self-loathe....that seems like far likely motivation for hurting themselves rather than "they were born to be women although they have no biological trace of the female sex inside their body"
if you had no media outlets shoving this shit down your throat, no one NO ONE would support such an unnatural thing. The effect of the media is quite impressive tbh, they could show a picture of an apple and through time convince you that it is actually a carrot.
1 Nadare3 2018-08-09
Actually, there are cases where a person who wants to cut off one of their limbs ( Saying it's not part of their body or something ) is actually amputated by a doctor. Of course, it's a last ressort thing when no other solution works, but it happens.
1 throwaway_account159 2018-08-09
Of course i know that, that's why i brought it up. But nearly every one who hears about Body Integrity Identity Disorder is disgusted by the actions that they go through to align with their mental illness...that is until you hit them with "how is this different from SRS?" and they get started for a second and then change their minds and go "yeah i guess it's not that bad if it makes them happy"
but everyone's initial genuine reaction to shit like this is utter disgust.
1 Nadare3 2018-08-09
I think that's not really the point, though. Yes, cutting your limb is disgusting, in a way, because you wouldn't want that to happen to you, and it has devastating effects in many cases.
The point isn't whether you would want that to happen to you, or if you would want that to happen to you if you had BIID. In fact, I would wager most people with BIID, in a vacuum, do not want to get amputated.
The problem is that in some cases, there is no better solution. People can rage and throw fit about how stupid the solution is, but there is no better solution - in some cases.
The same goes for transgender people. None of them actually want to butcher their body, but that's just the best solution for them, they understand that, and thus demand to get the better solution.
If tomorrow a pill is invented to cure gender dysphoria, no transgender person would ever get operated.
1 throwaway_account159 2018-08-09
I simply refuse to believe that, maybe "curing" transgenderism in a vacuum is impossible, but i believe treating underlying mental issues that are rife in transgender people could lead to curing their desire to change their gender as a byproduct. I've read a testimony of a person who was raped by father when around the time he was hitting puberty (a very sensitive period for personality and identity development) and due to this, he kept waking up in the middle of the night wanting to rips his penis out and after basically begging for HRT, he was given the treatment. but after the psychologist that he was working with convinced him that his male identity is not what caused his father to rape him and that led him into embracing his male identity and he got off HRT. I believe many cases are like this, you can't just open a DSM V and see "the most effective cure is SRS" and go "that's it, then!"
1 Nadare3 2018-08-09
I think you're confusing a few things there.
There are probably mental issues ( Or life experiences that lead to mental issues ) that cause one to believe they have gender dysphoria. But there is also probably simply more mental issues in people genuinely afflicted with gender dysphoria.
As we understand now, gender dysphoria results from a brain that is midway between the two sexes, but closer to the sex opposite from the body. This is almost assuredly from birth ( And in fact it is supposed the difference between a trans woman's ( man's ) brain and a natural woman's ( man's ) brain are mostly the result of the brain growing with male ( female ) hormones ) so there is reason to assume gender dysphoria can't be cured, at all, for the foreseeable future.
Now it is possible this mismatch, which again causes a brain that isn't exactly like a normal person's brain, of either sexes, causes mental problems, either directly ( Because it's not how the brain was intended to work ) or indirectly ( Because feeling deeply unhappy isn't the best for mental health ).
The thing to understand is that this case wasn't exactly handled badly. Depending on the age of that person, more specifically if they were still undergoing puberty, it might have been seen as a better decision to stop their puberty ( And thus prevent any undesirable effect should they actually suffer from gender dysphoria ) and possibly risk some long term effects than to keep going with puberty and prevent and risk the contrary. And sure, that might seem bad, but either way, you have to take a bet.
I think you're confusing what the patient diagnoses with what they will be diagnosed with by professionals and finally what they actually have.
The person thought they had gender dysphoria. They didn't, it was rightfully assessed, and they didn't undergo anything too drastic - and as I explained, if the person was undergoing puberty, they were gonna risk something in the process either way. The system worked as intended.
Mind you, even people who go through the whole ordeal aren't guaranteed to have ( had ) gender dysphoria. They were only diagnosed with it by professionals. Now yes, this means there is a risk someone gets operated, this doesn't solve their problems, they essentially just ruined their life. AFAIK this happens only around 2% of the time when someone is operated - with the approval of the state program in France, might vary by country.
Now you also have to consider that you don't reach that high a "success rate" ( Which in itself is a fallacy because this is assuming patients are only those operated, which isn't true, see rest of the sentence for the reason why ) without also turning down people who have gender dysphoria. No diagnosis can be 100% certain.
I think one of your errors is thinking that 1. "checking" for other causes of the self diagnosis of gender dysphoria isn't done right now 2. people who self diagnosis gender dysphoria but aren't recognized as such by medical professionals matter as to what the "cure" for gender dysphoria should be. This is like asking that because some people mistake a certain disease for cancer, we should reconsider what is currently recommended to treat cancer ( Which is in that case a little more absurd because cancer has many treatment options chosen on a case-by-case basis ) as inadequate because it would severely harm the people who think they have cancer but don't.
What is or isn't appropriate for people with gender dysphoria only applies to people who actually have gender dysphoria. People who self-diagnosis with gender dysphoria, until they are legitimately diagnosed with it, are irrelevant to the matter. What is relev
1 parameciidae 2018-08-09
Eh, maybe particular parts, but not the whole brain. I think probably a lot of people have a mosaic of more male and more female parts of their brains who are just fine with their gender being the same as their sex. I would think more it's related to the parts of the brain that give us a sense of self, given that trans people report such a sense of 'rightness' and relief when they transition.
1 a_thumb_in_my_bum 2018-08-09
What I find most troubling about SRS is the way we are using a very aggressive and permanent surgical solution to treat what is obviously a purely mental disorder. It’s no better than cutting a hole in someone’s skull to “let the demons out”. It’s typical Western hubris that instead of looking at gender, looking as to why there would be toxicity for some people in the way we treat and categorise men and women, we just get out the scalpels and cut the fuckers up. If there was more leeway within us culturally for gender behaviour, there wouldn’t be this horrible ‘need’ to destroy people’s genitalia. This seems to changing, but we are going to look back at HET, puberty blockers and SRS as brutality akin to forced lobotomies and surgery without anaesthesia.
1 VidiotGamer 2018-08-09
We know that SRS doesn't work. It's a horrific failure, with a long term morbidity rate that is 20 times higher than average. Bizarrely, in light of this hard evidence, you'll see a lot of trans advocates trying to either down play this, or otherwise claim that there is some flaw in the data.
It's insanity.
The latest gambit they have is to claim that if you transition a person as a child, then they grow up to have the same rates of suicide as biological females - but the problem with this claim is that compared to the other longitudinal studies (30+ years) the evidence backing this claim up is practically non-existent. It definitely reeks of activists desperately scrambling to try and come up with some counter talking point.
And that's the problem in a nut shell - It's all talking points and identity politics and muddled with intersection feminism and far left politics. Doctors are literally proscribing death to patients and they're okay with it because it is "politically correct" (finally, a very accurate usage of the word!)
1 Nadare3 2018-08-09
Again, best solution VS good solution.
Sure, it's not a great solution, but for now, it's that or leaving people to suffer. And again, the particular problem at hand doesn't seem to be one medicine will be able to treat another way within anything close to the near future, so waiting seems like unnecessarily cruel.
Maybe when another solution becomes more realistic, even if it isn't applicable yet, waiting for it could become a better alternative than SRS, but for now you're asking people to wait for something that doesn't look so likely to become a reality within their lifetime.
I think there's a huge difference between lobotomy as a "cure" for mental disorder and changing the body to address a mismatch between the body and the brain. Sure, changing the brain might be better, but we're not there, so that's a sort of moot point.
That is just not how gender dysphoria works. One of the first things transgender people will be told when they see a psychiatrist for it is that this shouldn't be about femininity or masculinity but about being a woman or being a man.
To a trans woman, whether they can be a masculine or feminine man, she's still a man, so that won't change anything to her situation - maybe alleviate it a bit, but not solve the problem, at all.
These will probably be looked back as an extreme solution to a problem that in the future will look so much simpler to solve, but no, I think there's a huge difference between lobotomy and SRS.
Lobotomy barely could be called a solution to the associated problems because it was more akin to beheading a patient to rid them of a headache than anything else regarding its approach to problem-solving. Literally in some cases since this was lethal in quite many cases, and in others the patient was left completely non-functional, unable to walk and/or talk.
SRS, in a way, works. Sure, there are loads of downsides, but it makes most people who undergo it happier - of course those people are only those diagnosed with high chances of success to begin with. I'm not saying it's a very good solution, because again, there is huge room for improvement, but that room, right now, cannot really be used, and any other solution, including waiting for an alternative that doesn't seem likely to be there within our lifetimes, is worse.
But again, I agree SRS is an imperfect solution that should be improved upon when possible, but it's the best there is if carefully used, and by most metrics, it works. And before you bring up the increased post-op suicide rate ( Which AFAIK is a lie to begin with ), do consider most people will try this solution before deciding whether to end their life or not. People tend to not kill themselves if there's still a reasonable hope to solve their problem, but once that reasonable hope ( SRS ) has proved not to work, there's only suicide left.
1 a_thumb_in_my_bum 2018-08-09
I disagree completely with your characterisation of this process. I don’t have to bring up suicide, because you did, but what I will bring up is the absolutely shocking post surgery and long term health outcomes people who go through SRS have. What I really don’t like about people like you is the way you seek to minimise these poor outcomes. They are horrific, high and you have them forever. It is surgery on one of the most delicate parts of a humans body, with many many nerve endings and a vital impact on people’s mental and physical well being. Robbing someone of sexual function just so that they have deformed hole where their dick used to be is barbaric. It isn’t a vagina and it will never one. What is being created is eunuchs, a barbaric practice we supposedly left behind at the beginning of the modern era. You cannot just mould a human body into what the mind wants and believes. The mind is free to fly into all kinds of flights of fancy, whereas the body is very much grounded in the here and now. It’s a physical thing with physical limitations.
And honestly I think the people who see gender as a continuum have it right. If there are multiplied ways to be a man or a woman, why are you going through a violent medical procedure to conform to one particular narrow definition? It’s ok to be a masculine woman or an effeminate man, at least it should be.
1 Nadare3 2018-08-09
As opposed to what, living a life that drives people to suicide ? You honestly look like a child who thinks that if we close our eyes and keep saying SRS has adverse side effects, then maybe transgender people will just start spontaneously feeling well without it.
Also the whole time I thought that by SRS you meant the whole deal, facial féminisation/masculinisation, boobwork ( Either way ), and all, but you're actually fixated on genital surgery, which isn't even used by all transgenders. This really makes me wonder how informed you are about all this, especially because...
No...just...no. Sure, there are very bad results, true, mostly in some western countries, and FtM SRS is much tougher than the MtF one, but no, it's more than putting a hole where there was a pillar and vice versa.
A fair share of operated transgender can reach orgasm, have regular sex, some aren't that far off the real thing from a functional and aesthetic perspective. I advise you to inform yourself about this, because you really seem to be talking out of your #ss.
What's the part of "it works" you can't fathom ? You think you're the first to have those concerns ? The Hippocratic Oath has been a massive concern about transgender people, yet it's recognized that SRS is still a valid solution; Not all transgender people go through with it, but many do, and are happier for it.
An effeminate man is still a man, a masculine woman is still a woman, so no, you don't go from one gender to the other ( Basic etymology of trans-gender ) by changing how masculine or effeminate you are. Again you seem hugely misinformed on what transgenderism actually is.
1 a_thumb_in_my_bum 2018-08-09
Seriously, whatever. Everything you've wrote is full of glaring inconsistencies, much like Trans activism in general. Please don't write me another fucking novel.
1 Nadare3 2018-08-09
Right :D
1 motherjoad 2018-08-09
Nobody discusses trans people and their issues in my circle. I admittedly have a small circle and live in the Bible Belt. I also lived in New England (aka Sodom and Gomorra) during the height of the Caitlyn Jenner phenomena and it still didn’t seem to come up a lot. I think it’s still regarded as sensitive and a “tread lightly” sort of thing.
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-08-09
Naw, I'm in New England too... Mostly a case of "is this costing me money? No? Then what the fuck do I give."
As is tradition.
1 TERF_facts 2018-08-09
I live in pretty conservative area, all the trannies I have met IRL (all 3 of them) have been decent people who just want to live as much as the opposite gender as possible. None of the TIMs I have ever known IRL have been hellbent on being in women's locker rooms or domestic violence shelters. It's the internet trannies that make them look like psychotic degenerates. Maybe that, or maybe they really are as fucked up as the rest of them, they just realize that the majority of conservative/religious people in the area aren't going to put up with their shit, and they'd rather dial it back and not get murdered/railroaded.
1 dramasexual 2018-08-09
I've heard IRL discussions making fun of the crazy ones for being crazy. Generally accepting you-do-you group too.
1 xcallmesunshine 2018-08-09
I was an sjw and pro trans- flipped sides when men (trans woman) started beating up actually women for being terfs (and also the lefts support of Islam). Trans women are aight but they ain't woman and threatening to beat me up for saying that will push me further away. If you go on gender critical most posters were liberal feminists.
1 TransexualWiener 2018-08-09
i say, let all the radfem TERFs and trannies take each other out, and society will be better off.
1 _narrows 2018-08-09
I’m getting really sick and tired of this tranny faggot bullshit day in and day out.
1 quality_bratwurst 2018-08-09
You can unsub from r/drama anytime you want
1 Corporal-Hicks 2018-08-09
some faggot in there is calling people "Transphobes" which is quite a misnomer. Since "-phobe" implies its irrational to hate trans people.
1 DarthNightnaricus 2018-08-09
It is. Imagine being scared of them. What kind of a fucking retard is scared of trans people?
1 911roofer 2018-08-09
Anyone sane.
1 DarthNightnaricus 2018-08-09
Looking at your posting history, you're a transphobe AND a racist. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that this is a sub that's like T_D. It's not. Go back to /pol/, retard.
1 911roofer 2018-08-09
0/10. Was that supposed to sting?
1 quxxo 2018-08-09
cry more :DDDDD
1 Corporal-Hicks 2018-08-09
lol can't tell if ironic posting or not
1 TransexualWiener 2018-08-09
it means "fear or dislike". so it can simply mean someone who dislikes something, doesn't have to be fear. the term transphobe is quite correct for anyone trash talkin the dickgirls.
1 quality_bratwurst 2018-08-09
Ah the old "-phobe isnt right because Im not scared of them!" argument.
Somebody needs to refresh their memory on denotations and connotations
1 dogDroolsCatsRules 2018-08-09
The best traps are the ones that took hormone blockers as kids.
Trans acceptance is to way to sweet trap bussy.