It's a fine design back in 2002. Anyone who doesn't understand the design intentions behind a mix of 3d world space and stats/dice rolling is also a twit
Fam, in real life if you try to use a sword against a hypothetical enemy you're going to have a bad time if you have zero training. It's a bit more complicated than just rng, because the rng models things that you're not accounting for.
But your point is stupid if that's what you're trying to say because this is a very basic mechanic - you're not forced to eat food, sleep indoors, spend weeks recovering from an injury, etc. You're literally required to be proficient in the skill that you're trying to use.
Let's face it, you're super used to video games spoon feeding you everything and the minute a game provides a slight challenge beyond "hit it and run away until it dies" you sperg the fuck out and say it's awful. Just get good, or at least read a guide.
For 3d RPGs, if you see your sword hit something on the screen it should be a hit. Skills and RNG should drastically affect damage output, but it's stupid when I see the sword hit the enemy and its still a miss. It's a good mechanic in top down, turn based, or table top games, but it's shit in 3d RPGs.
Fam, in real life if you try to use a sword against a hypothetical enemy you're going to have a bad time if you have zero training. It's a bit more complicated than just rng, because the rng models things that you're not accounting for.
Fam, in real life if you try to use a sword against a hypothetical enemy you're going to have a bad time if you have zero training.
Yes, but I won't just completely miss. That's why you make should have damage based off skill level.
Many turn based and top down game mechanics don't translate well into 3d games. Morrowind was a very early game and game they learned a lot from it. Just because the combat was good for the time doesn't mean it isn't crap. This is like defending the witcher 1's combat system.
Personally I think a game like skyrim would have had better if skill levels mattered more, but I don't want it to be D&D.
Yes, but I won't just completely miss. That's why you make should have damage based off skill level.
If your blow lands square on the plate, do you think he'll feel anything?
Many turn based and top down game mechanics don't translate well into 3d games. Morrowind was a very early game and game they learned a lot from it. Just because the combat was good for the time doesn't mean it isn't crap. This is like defending the witcher 1's combat system.
How the fuck are you making these statements while being totally and wholly incapable of refuting anything I say?
If your blow lands square on the plate, do you think he'll feel anything?
If you hit him with a fucking mace he sure will.
How the fuck are you making these statements while being totally and wholly incapable of refuting anything I say?
You keep saying that the RNG "models for things I'm not accounting for". My statement is that that doesn't matter because RNG hits are shit game design.
In real life a sword isn’t getting through a shit of armour. Unless you do something like a murder stroke and drive your cross guard into them, Steel isn’t gonna cut steel. You’d end up rolling around trying to stab each other in the eyes or something.
There’s times when realism and fantasy games don’t need to be together, eh?
Except if you're an experienced swordsman you'll know where and how to win for the joints in the armor and wear down the opponent's ability to parry and block, represented by the health bar, until you're able to land a killing blow - health is just an arbitrary representation of a deeper system.
Short swords are totally worthless against any plate armor. The only things that mattered when your opponent has plate armor is strength and luck. Swords saw a lot less use in actual combat than we normally portray. Spears, maces, axes, and bows were a lot more important.
Also rats don't have plate armor. So your argument is stupid for this.
Fam, I can't help you at this point. You're being stupid for the sake of being stupid.
Short swords are totally worthless against any plate armor.
Except if you're skilled enough to get the blade in between the joins where the plates aren't connected
The only things that mattered when your opponent has plate armor is strength and luck.
Skill
Swords saw a lot less use in actual combat than we normally portray. Spears, maces, axes, and bows were a lot more important.
And?
Also rats don't have plate armor. So your argument is stupid for this.
They are dodging your attacks, you're too slow to keep up with them, or your inexperience with the weapon is preventing you from landing anything more than a graze, but thanks to 2002, you don't see that animation. Maybe take it up with Bethesda and they'll rework the engine and update it just for you.
Except if you're skilled enough to get the blade in between the joins where the plates aren't connected
This is like fantasy weeb shit. You've gotten way to fucking far into fantasy to understand how medievalish combat actually worked. In the heat of battle there is absolutely no way you could ever hit between the joints in armor. Any imbecile who tried just got their skull bashed in with a mace or stabbed with a spear. Swords were either back up weapons or big enough to bludgeon someone.
Skill
If you count strength an endurance as skills.
They are dodging your attacks, you're too slow to keep up with them, or your inexperience with the weapon is preventing you from landing anything more than a graze, but thanks to 2002, you don't see that animation. Maybe take it up with Bethesda and they'll rework the engine and update it just for you.
You're telling me that a giant rat is smart enough and agile enough to dodge someone hitting it. You need to get out more.
They were no where near as useful or common as bows, spears, poleaxes, or maces. They also weren't some weeby shit where masters of the sword trained non-stop for years to find the slightest gap in plate armor. They just stabbed and hoped they found it. Fucking nerds thinking that medieval combat is like what they show in movies.
They still existed and were useful enough to be a regular sidearm. Funny how you mentioned bows considering how they also function against plate-armored knights by stabbing everywhere and hoped for a weakspot.
Many longbows and crossbows (close enough to a bow), were able to punch through the plate armor of their day. There was a constant arms race between weapons and armor, but bows kept up for a long time. Also it's obvious that they were not used as precision weapons like chucklefuck thought swords were. You just have a bunch of dudes shoot volleys and something will hit.
Longbows were not except at relatively short ranges, and neither were most crossbows save for things like 1000lb draw weight arbalests. Most early guns weren't either. Plate armor was pretty damn effective. Sword fights between full armored knights looked more like two tin cans trying to pry open the other, which the estoc excelled at.
And that isn't even the most retarded game design decision they made: moving faster than a slow walking pace depletes stamina, meaning you have to stop and go constantly.
31 comments
1 SnapshillBot 2018-08-17
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1 LightUmbra 2018-08-17
Rng for hits in a first person rpg was terrible game design. Anyone that seriously defends it is a twit.
1 SimplyQuid 2018-08-17
It's a fine design back in 2002. Anyone who doesn't understand the design intentions behind a mix of 3d world space and stats/dice rolling is also a twit
1 LightUmbra 2018-08-17
It was fine when people when 3d RPGs were in their infancy, but it's reasonable for anyone going back to think it's shit.
1 oss_spy 2018-08-17
Fam, in real life if you try to use a sword against a hypothetical enemy you're going to have a bad time if you have zero training. It's a bit more complicated than just rng, because the rng models things that you're not accounting for.
1 LightUmbra 2018-08-17
In real life I get papercuts, but that doesn't mean that papercuts are good game design.
1 oss_spy 2018-08-17
Thats pretty stupid. Wanna try a different analogy?
1 LightUmbra 2018-08-17
If you don't get the point you're not very bright. The point is that real life doesn't always make for good game design.
1 oss_spy 2018-08-17
But your point is stupid if that's what you're trying to say because this is a very basic mechanic - you're not forced to eat food, sleep indoors, spend weeks recovering from an injury, etc. You're literally required to be proficient in the skill that you're trying to use.
Let's face it, you're super used to video games spoon feeding you everything and the minute a game provides a slight challenge beyond "hit it and run away until it dies" you sperg the fuck out and say it's awful. Just get good, or at least read a guide.
1 LightUmbra 2018-08-17
For 3d RPGs, if you see your sword hit something on the screen it should be a hit. Skills and RNG should drastically affect damage output, but it's stupid when I see the sword hit the enemy and its still a miss. It's a good mechanic in top down, turn based, or table top games, but it's shit in 3d RPGs.
1 oss_spy 2018-08-17
Fam, in real life if you try to use a sword against a hypothetical enemy you're going to have a bad time if you have zero training. It's a bit more complicated than just rng, because the rng models things that you're not accounting for.
1 LightUmbra 2018-08-17
Yes, but I won't just completely miss. That's why you make should have damage based off skill level.
Many turn based and top down game mechanics don't translate well into 3d games. Morrowind was a very early game and game they learned a lot from it. Just because the combat was good for the time doesn't mean it isn't crap. This is like defending the witcher 1's combat system.
Personally I think a game like skyrim would have had better if skill levels mattered more, but I don't want it to be D&D.
1 oss_spy 2018-08-17
If your blow lands square on the plate, do you think he'll feel anything?
How the fuck are you making these statements while being totally and wholly incapable of refuting anything I say?
1 LightUmbra 2018-08-17
If you hit him with a fucking mace he sure will.
You keep saying that the RNG "models for things I'm not accounting for". My statement is that that doesn't matter because RNG hits are shit game design.
1 oss_spy 2018-08-17
Okay man
1 LightUmbra 2018-08-17
Lol k
1 Harpies_Bro 2018-08-17
In real life a sword isn’t getting through a shit of armour. Unless you do something like a murder stroke and drive your cross guard into them, Steel isn’t gonna cut steel. You’d end up rolling around trying to stab each other in the eyes or something.
There’s times when realism and fantasy games don’t need to be together, eh?
1 oss_spy 2018-08-17
Except if you're an experienced swordsman you'll know where and how to win for the joints in the armor and wear down the opponent's ability to parry and block, represented by the health bar, until you're able to land a killing blow - health is just an arbitrary representation of a deeper system.
Anything else you want to try?
1 LightUmbra 2018-08-17
Short swords are totally worthless against any plate armor. The only things that mattered when your opponent has plate armor is strength and luck. Swords saw a lot less use in actual combat than we normally portray. Spears, maces, axes, and bows were a lot more important.
Also rats don't have plate armor. So your argument is stupid for this.
1 oss_spy 2018-08-17
Fam, I can't help you at this point. You're being stupid for the sake of being stupid.
Except if you're skilled enough to get the blade in between the joins where the plates aren't connected
Skill
And?
They are dodging your attacks, you're too slow to keep up with them, or your inexperience with the weapon is preventing you from landing anything more than a graze, but thanks to 2002, you don't see that animation. Maybe take it up with Bethesda and they'll rework the engine and update it just for you.
1 LightUmbra 2018-08-17
This is like fantasy weeb shit. You've gotten way to fucking far into fantasy to understand how medievalish combat actually worked. In the heat of battle there is absolutely no way you could ever hit between the joints in armor. Any imbecile who tried just got their skull bashed in with a mace or stabbed with a spear. Swords were either back up weapons or big enough to bludgeon someone.
If you count strength an endurance as skills.
You're telling me that a giant rat is smart enough and agile enough to dodge someone hitting it. You need to get out more.
1 oss_spy 2018-08-17
Okay man
1 Shitposting_Skeleton 2018-08-17
Estocs aren't fantasy weeb shit you retard.
1 LightUmbra 2018-08-17
They were no where near as useful or common as bows, spears, poleaxes, or maces. They also weren't some weeby shit where masters of the sword trained non-stop for years to find the slightest gap in plate armor. They just stabbed and hoped they found it. Fucking nerds thinking that medieval combat is like what they show in movies.
1 Shitposting_Skeleton 2018-08-17
They still existed and were useful enough to be a regular sidearm. Funny how you mentioned bows considering how they also function against plate-armored knights by stabbing everywhere and hoped for a weakspot.
1 LightUmbra 2018-08-17
Many longbows and crossbows (close enough to a bow), were able to punch through the plate armor of their day. There was a constant arms race between weapons and armor, but bows kept up for a long time. Also it's obvious that they were not used as precision weapons like chucklefuck thought swords were. You just have a bunch of dudes shoot volleys and something will hit.
1 Shitposting_Skeleton 2018-08-17
Longbows were not except at relatively short ranges, and neither were most crossbows save for things like 1000lb draw weight arbalests. Most early guns weren't either. Plate armor was pretty damn effective. Sword fights between full armored knights looked more like two tin cans trying to pry open the other, which the estoc excelled at.
1 LemonScore_ 2018-08-17
And that isn't even the most retarded game design decision they made: moving faster than a slow walking pace depletes stamina, meaning you have to stop and go constantly.
1 LightUmbra 2018-08-17
In a game with no sprinting. smh
1 loli_esports 2018-08-17
Jumping? Hello?
1 loli_esports 2018-08-17
why is it only morrowind where people dont get this