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The existence of LegalAdvice is kinda odd. Don't most lawyers make you pay for advice? And If you really need it, isn't posting about it on the internet kinda risky?
Yeah I was under the impression that giving legal advice without a license was against the law? Maybe it's poorly enforced, but the name of the sub could not be any more clear a violation of it.
I guess I could give anyone legal advice, as long as I asked for no pay and made no claims to be an expert. Then it's essentially me giving an informed opinion, which is what probably goes on more often in that sub.
But if you haven't passed the relevant bar, then you are legally incapable of giving an informed opinion. A lot of the posters on r/legaladvice could probably find themselves in a world of shit.
Getting advice from anyone who you can't be sure is qualified is always dumb. Its especially dumb when you don't even indicate what state or really even country you live in. Who cares what some real estate lawyer in Illinois has to say about your employment law question in California.
On top of that, most lawyers would know when their expertise is limited. Its a ridiculous sub, and I often see incorrect advice on legal advice Canada.
You would be surprised how many people do. If people actually fully utilized their fifth amendment right America would practically be in anarchy. But so many have a little talk with police and then just confess.
I mean a lot of times the police are downright tricky about it... for instance, telling the suspect that the family will consider dropping the charges if they sign an apology, then just turning around and using that as a confession in court. Oh yeah, and the thing about the family was a lie. Also, walking into the room with tape recorder, and at some point expressing sympathy, turning it off, and telling them "Look, all of this is off the record", after which they often talk much more freely. Except the interrogation room is mic'd, and the tape recorder was just a prop brought in specifically for that stunt.
Like seriously just don't talk to the police. Ever. It's basically never to your legal benefit, even if you're innocent. Definitely do not follow any advice they give with respect to the law. When it comes to interactions with them, there is just one guy who works for you and actually has your best interests in mind, that's your lawyer.
Always always always wait for your lawyer. Anything you say can and will be used AGAINST you. Never for you. You will only either hurt yourself or accomplish nothing by talking. All risk, no reward.
Yeah. And again, it's not just if you're guilty. If you try to talk to them to explain your innocence, you might misremember some elements and give an inconsistent story. If the police/justice department handling the case is shitty and lazy, and don't have any other real leads, they could possibly spin an entire case out of you accidentally telling untruths in your story. Also, imagine if your telling your story, and you realize that one upcoming bit does in fact make you look super guilty; I imagine there's going to be a pretty huge incentive on your part to try and minimize or brush over that part. Then the police figure out about it anyway and you're fucked.
Tell it to your lawyer first; he will be a rationality check, he will piece together your story and the evidence, ensure what you're saying makes sense, and press you where your account is lacking. Through discovery he actually has access to a lot of the prosecutors evidence used in the case, whereas you sitting in that interrogation room do not, you have no clue what sort of shit they have on you and what you should go out of your way to dismiss. Also you never have to be afraid of talking to your defense lawyer, they legally cannot run and tattle on you, so there no incentive to hide anything that may make you look guilty from him. Even if he thinks your guilty he is bound to look the other way and defend you to the best of his ability anyway. This is the entire reason for attorney-client privilege, it's not just for guilty people.
A talk by a law professor about why you should never talk to the police, and a police officer also speaks near the end to discuss his side. It's an hour long about, but very fascinating. The police officer mentions the two tricks I mentioned above, among others. Those two I just found particularly dirty and they're kind of seared into my memory.
I truly believe that it should be illegal for police officers to offer legal advice of any kind. Unfortunately, too many people see them as an authority on the matter and believe what they say.
Even if it's not intentionally wrong (which.. come on ..) it often is incorrect.
This should be exhibit A for proof that no lawyers actually are on Legaladvice. The actually argued that if you have nothing to hide you should just let employers search you.
These same people probably feel that employers and private businesses in general have too much power and influence in the lives of American citizens. Then they go dip their toes in the libertarian side of the pool when someone they don't like gets fired.
Legally, you shouldn't. From a moral perspective, you shouldn't. If we start using refusal to consent to a search as evudey, we effectively do not have a right against unreasonable searches and seizure.
From a practical stand point where he seems to be most concerned with his reputation, it's definitely the easiest way out of this.
Nah, there is a bill of rights (or a charter for Canadians) that protects all citizens, even dumb people. Being tricked into following shitty legal advice is unfair to them
42 comments
1 SnapshillBot 2018-09-26
For anyone reading this, archive.is is probably the highest trafficked archiving site on reddit, and only receives few donations per week (and definitely not enough to run on donations alone). If you can, you can support the creator on Liberapay in order to make sure we have this service for the future.
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1 rationalhuckleberry 2018-09-26
So if bussy won’t consent to my probing, bussy is the rapist? 🤔
1 XhotwheelsloverX 2018-09-26
This changes everything.
1 HailSanta2512 2018-09-26
HerBodyHerChoice but HisBodyTheirChoice, shitlord
1 rationalhuckleberry 2018-09-26
Sorry I didn’t consent to your response. Please stop raping my delicate mind.
1 HailSanta2512 2018-09-26
ima skull fuck you till you love me and that's a good thing
1 Sir_Panache 2018-09-26
Ok dalmher
1 HungerArtistatlunch 2018-09-26
The existence of LegalAdvice is kinda odd. Don't most lawyers make you pay for advice? And If you really need it, isn't posting about it on the internet kinda risky?
1 Vegan_dogfucker 2018-09-26
Legal advice is legit run by cops and students studying law. They once banned an actual lawyer.
1 MildlyCat 2018-09-26
Ugh, Avvo is cancer like Yelp.
I'm sure the comments are fine though
1 EdLesliesBarber 2018-09-26
Most lawyers can’t put in the work to make it to LegalAdvice. I’ve seen people post 12 times an hour on Relationships and never graduate!!
1 Van-Diemen 2018-09-26
Imagine wishing you were a lawyer, may as well wish you were a tape worm.
1 BigSwarmOfBees 2018-09-26
In many states, it’s likely against State law and an almost certain breach of legal ethics to give out anon internet legal advice.
So any lawyer doing it is a pretty shitty lawyer.
1 carnivoreinyeg 2018-09-26
If you ask any competent lawyer for advice outside their field, they would tell you to seek advice from a lawyer who practices in that arena
1 watermark02 2018-09-26
Yeah I was under the impression that giving legal advice without a license was against the law? Maybe it's poorly enforced, but the name of the sub could not be any more clear a violation of it.
1 HungerArtistatlunch 2018-09-26
I guess I could give anyone legal advice, as long as I asked for no pay and made no claims to be an expert. Then it's essentially me giving an informed opinion, which is what probably goes on more often in that sub.
1 trj820 2018-09-26
But if you haven't passed the relevant bar, then you are legally incapable of giving an informed opinion. A lot of the posters on r/legaladvice could probably find themselves in a world of shit.
1 HungerArtistatlunch 2018-09-26
Yeah but I have google.
1 carnivoreinyeg 2018-09-26
A girl at my firm has a coffee mug that says "your Google search isn't equivalent to my law degree". Clients often think they know better, it's wild.
1 carnivoreinyeg 2018-09-26
Getting advice from anyone who you can't be sure is qualified is always dumb. Its especially dumb when you don't even indicate what state or really even country you live in. Who cares what some real estate lawyer in Illinois has to say about your employment law question in California.
On top of that, most lawyers would know when their expertise is limited. Its a ridiculous sub, and I often see incorrect advice on legal advice Canada.
1 MtheDowner 2018-09-26
Why not link the actual LegalAdvice thread, it's just as bizarre in there. These aren't real lawyers, surely?
1 Flailing_Weasel 2018-09-26
No, but they watch a lot of police shows and watched Judge Judy when they stay home sick. Basically the same thing.
1 shitpersonality 2018-09-26
Some of the mods are police.
1 Flailing_Weasel 2018-09-26
Nobody in their right mind take legal advice from the police.
1 watermark02 2018-09-26
You would be surprised how many people do. If people actually fully utilized their fifth amendment right America would practically be in anarchy. But so many have a little talk with police and then just confess.
I mean a lot of times the police are downright tricky about it... for instance, telling the suspect that the family will consider dropping the charges if they sign an apology, then just turning around and using that as a confession in court. Oh yeah, and the thing about the family was a lie. Also, walking into the room with tape recorder, and at some point expressing sympathy, turning it off, and telling them "Look, all of this is off the record", after which they often talk much more freely. Except the interrogation room is mic'd, and the tape recorder was just a prop brought in specifically for that stunt.
Like seriously just don't talk to the police. Ever. It's basically never to your legal benefit, even if you're innocent. Definitely do not follow any advice they give with respect to the law. When it comes to interactions with them, there is just one guy who works for you and actually has your best interests in mind, that's your lawyer.
1 Flailing_Weasel 2018-09-26
^
Always always always wait for your lawyer. Anything you say can and will be used AGAINST you. Never for you. You will only either hurt yourself or accomplish nothing by talking. All risk, no reward.
1 watermark02 2018-09-26
Yeah. And again, it's not just if you're guilty. If you try to talk to them to explain your innocence, you might misremember some elements and give an inconsistent story. If the police/justice department handling the case is shitty and lazy, and don't have any other real leads, they could possibly spin an entire case out of you accidentally telling untruths in your story. Also, imagine if your telling your story, and you realize that one upcoming bit does in fact make you look super guilty; I imagine there's going to be a pretty huge incentive on your part to try and minimize or brush over that part. Then the police figure out about it anyway and you're fucked.
Tell it to your lawyer first; he will be a rationality check, he will piece together your story and the evidence, ensure what you're saying makes sense, and press you where your account is lacking. Through discovery he actually has access to a lot of the prosecutors evidence used in the case, whereas you sitting in that interrogation room do not, you have no clue what sort of shit they have on you and what you should go out of your way to dismiss. Also you never have to be afraid of talking to your defense lawyer, they legally cannot run and tattle on you, so there no incentive to hide anything that may make you look guilty from him. Even if he thinks your guilty he is bound to look the other way and defend you to the best of his ability anyway. This is the entire reason for attorney-client privilege, it's not just for guilty people.
Anyway, this is my source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
A talk by a law professor about why you should never talk to the police, and a police officer also speaks near the end to discuss his side. It's an hour long about, but very fascinating. The police officer mentions the two tricks I mentioned above, among others. Those two I just found particularly dirty and they're kind of seared into my memory.
1 LongPostBot 2018-09-26
Your pulitzer's in the mail
I am a bot. Contact for questions
1 realtomdelay 2018-09-26
remember that your public defender ain't your lawyer either.
1 carnivoreinyeg 2018-09-26
I truly believe that it should be illegal for police officers to offer legal advice of any kind. Unfortunately, too many people see them as an authority on the matter and believe what they say.
Even if it's not intentionally wrong (which.. come on ..) it often is incorrect.
1 IllustriousQuail 2018-09-26
Are you implying that watching Judge Judy on your couch at home is not basically a federal appellate court clerkship?
1 LordAndSaviorHaskell 2018-09-26
If someone's legal advice isn't "talk to a lawyer", they aren't a lawyer.
1 CasanovaMiranda 2018-09-26
Jesus fucking christ.
1 dramallllama 2018-09-26
This should be exhibit A for proof that no lawyers actually are on Legaladvice. The actually argued that if you have nothing to hide you should just let employers search you.
1 trumps_yellow_pubes 2018-09-26
These same people probably feel that employers and private businesses in general have too much power and influence in the lives of American citizens. Then they go dip their toes in the libertarian side of the pool when someone they don't like gets fired.
1 carnivoreinyeg 2018-09-26
Legally, you shouldn't. From a moral perspective, you shouldn't. If we start using refusal to consent to a search as evudey, we effectively do not have a right against unreasonable searches and seizure.
From a practical stand point where he seems to be most concerned with his reputation, it's definitely the easiest way out of this.
1 Krombopulos-Snake 2018-09-26
Man, isn't there some sort of law about unreasonable search and seizure -- or does that only apply to the government? I dropped out of Law School.
1 trumps_yellow_pubes 2018-09-26
"WTF I love at will employment now" - BOLA posters
1 CirqueDuFuder 2018-09-26
Firing people for trying to protect their rights is great!
Entire BOLA thread.
1 CirqueDuFuder 2018-09-26
Firing people for trying to protect their rights is great!
Entire BOLA thread.
1 CirqueDuFuder 2018-09-26
Firing people for trying to protect their rights is great!
Entire BOLA thread.
1 CirqueDuFuder 2018-09-26
Firing people for trying to protect their rights is great!
Entire BOLA thread.
1 CheerlessLeader 2018-09-26
TopMinds is a cancer subreddit. Let's not duplicate their nomenclature, thanks.
1 watermark02 2018-09-26
I imagine it would depend on a lot of factors. Don't think it would be just a straight "Give DNA or u fire!" thing.
Not that I know anything at all about the subject or any actual incidences of this.
In the linked incident the guy didn't actually get fired, he just suspects that's why they're being mean to him. Also it's probably fake.
1 Mepiaceercioccolato 2018-09-26
so in the US you can get fired for that?
1 BannedNotBanned 2018-09-26
Anyone expecting good free legal advice from an online random anonymous forum gets what they deserve.
1 carnivoreinyeg 2018-09-26
Nah, there is a bill of rights (or a charter for Canadians) that protects all citizens, even dumb people. Being tricked into following shitty legal advice is unfair to them
1 shallowm 2018-09-26
/r/drama thread about this