Well yes in terms of pure test scores and grades. The thing is AA for colleges works was designed to 1) fight the actual racial bias for admissions that was common and 2) give people with shit public school systems a chance to make it. It's a band-aid fix for a deep problem but removing it without fixing the core issue isn't going to improve things.
Too bad "shit public school systems" mostly turns out to be an excuse for shit students and the "deep problem" is that some people are dumber and less capable than other people.
Anyone who seriously entertains racial intelligence "theories" when we don't even have a working model of human intelligence has an extra chromosome. Parental guidance/support, after-school activity, and community play a huge part in intellectual development, and the combined deficiencies in these areas drags down the current generation, thus compromising their ability to ensure a different future for their children.
Whites on average have far more net assets than any other racial group, schools are funded from property taxes. Whites all group together buying houses in the burbs and send that property tax money to a school that's mostly white. They leave behind minorities in the city who mostly rent and who's school system can't pay for shit because there is no property in the district to tax to fund the school system. Most of these kids would turn out fine if the country they live in took care of them, but it doesn't, and it doesn't care.
That includes asians btw. Asians make more income than whites but they cannot top those generations of passing down inherited wealth. Their ancestors also were not given nice handouts of large tracts of land by the homestead acts when they arrived in the 19th century, they had to go to the city where the opportunity was and work their way up from the bottom while mostly having to rent due to the difficulty of building assets and equity.
city where the opportunity was and work their way up from the bottom while mostly having to rent due to the difficulty of building assets and equity.
And then they move to good zip codes and buying houses there, so their kids can go to good suburb schools.
Only the first generation suffers relatively more. All second generations I see are much better off than their parents, except for the Southeast Asians who like to stay in the city and be friends with the wrong group.
I can't begin to "unpack" the levels of retardation here. Homesteaders just got everything for free and didn't have to work? Are you fucking kidding me? Have you spent 20 years clearing a patch of land and making it productive? If Americans have fucked your country to the point where you have to flee (Vietnam, Cambodia) or you're fought alongside Americans for our common interests (Korea), you don't deserve an inheritance for your kids?
They leave behind minorities in the city who mostly rent and who's school system can't pay for shit because there is no property in the district to tax to fund the school system.
I'm about to blow your mind: Owners of rental property pay property taxes too.
2) give people with shit public school systems a chance to make it.
A good way to deal with that is to make some sort of a free remedial program for minorities or better poor people that they spend an extra year in and hopefully git gud enough to clear the requirements by scoring high enough.
Or better yet we can teach dark-skinned people work ethics in college by having some lifestyle humanities classes as prerequisites. That way we don't need to set up a special 13th grade for them, and we can attempt to acculturate them in an environment that gets them away from the home life that has so damaged their psyches.
Schools shouldnt be a replacement for parents. Its not in a maths teachers job description to make sure Jamal doesnt follow in the dad hes never mets footsteps, its their job to try and get Jamal to sit and learn the curriculum required to pass a test and if they cant get Jamal to do that then thats on Jamal and hes fucked for life really.
Schools must be a replacement for parents, because some races need replacements for parents and we don't have anything that fulfills this role other than schools.
"Racism" is a bad word for it. It's more like systemic factors. "Racism" is heavily weighted towards implying that it's an intentional state of affairs to purposely deprive minorities, when the factors that disadvantage them are mostly just patterns that emerge at the macro scale and most people at any point in the process are not just thinking "Man fuck niggers!" or anything obvious like that.
this. the only difference for minorities with aa is they get into better schools. to even apply for college you need strong parents, teachers, stable household, etc to even get to that point.
if you’re trying to let disadvantaged people in it should be based on how poor your background is. being poor is the the worst thing you can be in this country.
The thing is AA for colleges works was designed to 1) fight the actual racial bias for admissions that was common and 2) give people with shit public school systems a chance to make it.
Those are sensible justifications. They are not, however, the actual "compelling interest" that the Supreme Court has endorsed. Instead, Grutter v. Bollinger (2003) said that diversity is good in and of itself, and the majority did not base its reasoning on any notion of correcting for biases in the scores & grades part of the application.
Colleges choose students for many reasons that don't directly have anything to do with academic success. Legacy admissions, athletic admissions. And even in the regular admissions process they take plenty of things into account like personality to decide who to take. They do this because they believe that adding students through these methods improves the organization as whole.
Diversity is one more thing they take into consideration. Again, because they think it benefits the organization as a whole. They use it as a tiebreaker between equally qualified applicants. It would be absurd to think that, because the civil rights act prohibits exclusion of races in hiring, it also prohibits inclusion. That was never the intent of the statute and its a huge distortion.
The overall effect is not even usually that great. Like when California banned consideration of diversity in choosing its students, the black population at the University of California went down from 4% to 3%, and slowly rose back to that level. You'll notice that there are obviously no quotas here - 4% is like half of the black percentage of California as a whole. And asians are have huge representation in the student body compared to their number, currently at over 40% at the University of California despite them being like 10% of the population. So you can hardly claim they're using quotas. At most the diversity policy of most colleges affects maybe a single digit percentage of admissions. But mayos pretend like its the holocaust.
You can see the before and after graph for proposition 209 here:
Again, hardly any different. Asians were essentially unaffected. Only whites gained a few percentage points for a time.
The legacy admission thing, btw, is one that hugely benefits whites and screws asians. But this group doesn't seem to care very much about that. Shocker. That's because it's a front group from rich resentful right wing mayos, they don't want to lose their bratty undeserving kids meal ticket. There is no organic organizing on this from asian american groups.
It's funny how "racism" works in the right wing mind. Legacy admissions are perfectly OK and non-racist despite having an huge an obviously disproportionate negative effect on minorities because they don't explicitly mention race. But being inclusive is wrong because it does, literally it's just as bad as white supremacy lololol.
Why don't the colleges take your strategy then? Just give extra weight to people who come from families that have never been to college, poor people, people from blighted urban areas, people who's parents rent rather than own a house. Just happens most of these would be really good for black people, but I suppose that's OK regardless of my clear intent because I could do the same thing without mentioning the word "black".
On the other hand, enrollment of African Americans at UC Santa Cruz and UC Riverside rose dramatically, and the grades earned by African American students at UC schools shot up.
I swear to god watermark intentionally is making his position look as stupid and convoluted as possible.
The "for the sake of diversity" argument is lame posturing but this is a big deal when it comes to what the following policies for underprivileged students will be after this. Colleges just favoring richer students from places with superior school systems isn't very meritocratic.
The legacy admission rate is a full 5x higher than higher at Harvard than non-legacy. A quarter of white admissions are legacy, 5% of Asian admissions are. But yeah the problem is a policy the may at best result in the african american population of the university being ~1% greater using a tiebreaker between equally qualified applicants.
But if you admit solely on merit whites also lose all those legacy admits. At one point Harvard released some data on what the class would look like if they eliminated the "personality" or whatever step in admissions and whites barely changed at all. Almost all the gains were in asians.
But I have been told that AA doesn't really hurt mayos because it only gets a small number of extra non-mayos in, relative to mayo numbers. And now they saying that repealing AA would benefit mayos after all. Eh, social justice is hard, let's go shopping!
So...ACLU is trying to sabotage/impede the mayocide by cultivating a conducive environment for an alliance to form between two mutally discriminated/disfranchised groups out of indignation? Is the merit disparity between Asians/mayos and other ethics groups so substantial?
Is it worth rousing the self-preservation tendencies of Mayos and hushering in the prelude to the Mayo and rice retribution coalition?
How can you threaten the hegemonic class of liberal academia like this?
I'm too lazy to do it myself but you could look up admissions data for California State Universities before and after they banned the use of race in admissions.
99 comments
1 SnapshillBot 2018-10-17
It's the same teenager racism hate cult that MDE was all about. It's just another boring /pol/ offshoot for lonely edgelord losers.
Snapshots:
I am a bot. (Info / Contact)
1 newcomer_ts 2018-10-17
First response:
sheltered=autism, confirmed
1 EasySchmitty 2018-10-17
1 BasicallyADoctor 2018-10-17
We need a y'allocaust against that acursed abbreviation
1 SlendyIsBehindYou 2018-10-17
Kill yallself
​
-a texan
1 I-need-MAYO 2018-10-17
y'alln't
1 dratamard2 2018-10-17
oh sweetie.. its ok to be white? yikes, let's unpack this y'all
from replies 😂😂😂
👌👌👌 based chingchong 👲👲👲
mayocide now 😡😡😡
1 shallowm 2018-10-17
Unfortunately, she didn't actually say that.
1 Redactor0 2018-10-17
It turns out that actually saying the stuff that Sarah Jeong is accused of saying is the true White Man's Burden. FUCK YOU ALL MAYO GOBLINS!!!
1 chumthescrubber 2018-10-17
She’s woke
1 BIknkbtKitNwniS 2018-10-17
White-Asian alliance against the darkies when?
1 Baconlightning 2018-10-17
It’s alaways been Chinks and darkies vs. Mayos and the rest of Asia.
1 a_cute_grill 2018-10-17
not according to aznidentity it isnt. darkies aren't allies because they are more privileged in western society apparently
1 DistortedLines 2018-10-17
They unironically think Asian men are the most oppressed demographic in the country.
1 -Morgenstern- 2018-10-17
Rittel dicku enelgy!
1 vtesterlwg 2018-10-17
not wrong
1 _Petronius 2018-10-17
I thought it was their big superior dongs
1 timsboss 2018-10-17
Roof Koreans disagree.
1 mrlala12321 2018-10-17
Koreans would fall under the "rest of Asia" category.
1 cragfar 2018-10-17
Every point in history.
1 reallyrunningnow 2018-10-17
Ever since weebs were invented
1 rationalhuckleberry 2018-10-17
Last I checked the Asians crush the mayos. So....how does more ricecels help the mayocels?
1 east_cleveland 2018-10-17
Helps if you’re a magnet for Asian chicks like I am
1 aqouta 2018-10-17
This tbh. Asian chicks are into me and the more money they make the more I can leach when I'm tired of the whole "don't be a parasite" thing.
1 schoolboystirner 2018-10-17
If you remove the AA rules then Latin/African American groups get in less and Asians/Caucasians get in more due to how the admissions criteria works.
1 LSU_Coonass 2018-10-17
>how the admissions criteria works.
you mean letting in the best students?
1 schoolboystirner 2018-10-17
Well yes in terms of pure test scores and grades. The thing is AA for colleges works was designed to 1) fight the actual racial bias for admissions that was common and 2) give people with shit public school systems a chance to make it. It's a band-aid fix for a deep problem but removing it without fixing the core issue isn't going to improve things.
1 nmx179 2018-10-17
Too bad "shit public school systems" mostly turns out to be an excuse for shit students and the "deep problem" is that some people are dumber and less capable than other people.
1 UpvoteIfYouDare 2018-10-17
A srsposr for a (disguised) srspost:
Anyone who seriously entertains racial intelligence "theories" when we don't even have a working model of human intelligence has an extra chromosome. Parental guidance/support, after-school activity, and community play a huge part in intellectual development, and the combined deficiencies in these areas drags down the current generation, thus compromising their ability to ensure a different future for their children.
1 Watermark03 2018-10-17
Whites on average have far more net assets than any other racial group, schools are funded from property taxes. Whites all group together buying houses in the burbs and send that property tax money to a school that's mostly white. They leave behind minorities in the city who mostly rent and who's school system can't pay for shit because there is no property in the district to tax to fund the school system. Most of these kids would turn out fine if the country they live in took care of them, but it doesn't, and it doesn't care.
That includes asians btw. Asians make more income than whites but they cannot top those generations of passing down inherited wealth. Their ancestors also were not given nice handouts of large tracts of land by the homestead acts when they arrived in the 19th century, they had to go to the city where the opportunity was and work their way up from the bottom while mostly having to rent due to the difficulty of building assets and equity.
1 yoyoyoyoyoyoy0 2018-10-17
nice tardpost
1 thetinguy 2018-10-17
I wonder what happened when prop 209 passed in Cali? What do you think the proportion of Asians in Harvard is compared to a place where racism is actually banned? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_209
1 Pepperglue 2018-10-17
And then they move to good zip codes and buying houses there, so their kids can go to good suburb schools.
Only the first generation suffers relatively more. All second generations I see are much better off than their parents, except for the Southeast Asians who like to stay in the city and be friends with the wrong group.
1 Redactor0 2018-10-17
I can't begin to "unpack" the levels of retardation here. Homesteaders just got everything for free and didn't have to work? Are you fucking kidding me? Have you spent 20 years clearing a patch of land and making it productive? If Americans have fucked your country to the point where you have to flee (Vietnam, Cambodia) or you're fought alongside Americans for our common interests (Korea), you don't deserve an inheritance for your kids?
1 IllustriousQuail 2018-10-17
I'm about to blow your mind: Owners of rental property pay property taxes too.
1 IDFSHILL 2018-10-17
I get you're probably profoundly ignorant on this subject, but environment is absurdly important in how successful a student is.
Being born poor is a very serious disadvantage. This is well studied, and is an objective fact.
1 shitpersonality 2018-10-17
Thank you, based shill god.
1 redditpassword70 2018-10-17
Isn't there a fuckton of schools that will let anybody inn. This just feels like the push for more female CEO, it doesnt inspire much empathy.
1 Watermark03 2018-10-17
There is no recent push, this is nearly a century old policy.
1 hodd01 2018-10-17
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/01/653318005/california-becomes-1st-state-to-require-women-on-corporate-boards
... effort post less chapo
1 KalebCS 2018-10-17
He's talking about affirmative action you mouth breather
1 hodd01 2018-10-17
Grade -A- Austism advertisement there Mr. Kaleb
1 KalebCS 2018-10-17
He's clearly stating that there is no reason to push for affirmative action, how many chromosomes do you have?
1 hodd01 2018-10-17
You are a real semen demon arn't ya their squirt? How does his dick taste? Salty or sweet?
1 shitpersonality 2018-10-17
Owned epic style!
1 bigboy951 2018-10-17
you are a gormless retard
1 zergling_Lester 2018-10-17
Yeah, started in the twenties to keep the Jews out.
1 zergling_Lester 2018-10-17
A good way to deal with that is to make some sort of a free remedial program for minorities or better poor people that they spend an extra year in and hopefully git gud enough to clear the requirements by scoring high enough.
Just pushing the low-scoring minority students into top universities results in them falling behind everyone and dropping out with a conclusion that yeah we are racially dumb (and everyone else noticing), and also the debt. https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/the-painful-truth-about-affirmative-action/263122/
1 UmmahSultan 2018-10-17
Or better yet we can teach dark-skinned people work ethics in college by having some lifestyle humanities classes as prerequisites. That way we don't need to set up a special 13th grade for them, and we can attempt to acculturate them in an environment that gets them away from the home life that has so damaged their psyches.
1 Aivias 2018-10-17
Schools shouldnt be a replacement for parents. Its not in a maths teachers job description to make sure Jamal doesnt follow in the dad hes never mets footsteps, its their job to try and get Jamal to sit and learn the curriculum required to pass a test and if they cant get Jamal to do that then thats on Jamal and hes fucked for life really.
1 UmmahSultan 2018-10-17
Schools must be a replacement for parents, because some races need replacements for parents and we don't have anything that fulfills this role other than schools.
1 Watermark03 2018-10-17
"Racism" is a bad word for it. It's more like systemic factors. "Racism" is heavily weighted towards implying that it's an intentional state of affairs to purposely deprive minorities, when the factors that disadvantage them are mostly just patterns that emerge at the macro scale and most people at any point in the process are not just thinking "Man fuck niggers!" or anything obvious like that.
1 vtesterlwg 2018-10-17
yeaaaaa my successful black friends didnt need AA to succeed
1 freet0 2018-10-17
You don't need to go to Harvard to 'make it'.
1 juliandaly 2018-10-17
Yes that applies to the Asians+whites who aren't going to Harvard because of aa
1 Kiru-Kokujin13 2018-10-17
Affirmative action should be based on socioeconomics not race
1 averagewhitebrah69 2018-10-17
this. the only difference for minorities with aa is they get into better schools. to even apply for college you need strong parents, teachers, stable household, etc to even get to that point.
if you’re trying to let disadvantaged people in it should be based on how poor your background is. being poor is the the worst thing you can be in this country.
1 IllustriousQuail 2018-10-17
Those are sensible justifications. They are not, however, the actual "compelling interest" that the Supreme Court has endorsed. Instead, Grutter v. Bollinger (2003) said that diversity is good in and of itself, and the majority did not base its reasoning on any notion of correcting for biases in the scores & grades part of the application.
1 schoolboystirner 2018-10-17
True, but the roots of racial affirmative action were definitely made with the idea of correcting racial bias.
1 averagewhitebrah69 2018-10-17
let’s fix this racial bias problem by codifying our view on the correct racial biases, it’s genius!
1 redsox0914 2018-10-17
Texas has a policy that deals with this. California and Florida have similar policies.
1 Watermark03 2018-10-17
Colleges choose students for many reasons that don't directly have anything to do with academic success. Legacy admissions, athletic admissions. And even in the regular admissions process they take plenty of things into account like personality to decide who to take. They do this because they believe that adding students through these methods improves the organization as whole.
Diversity is one more thing they take into consideration. Again, because they think it benefits the organization as a whole. They use it as a tiebreaker between equally qualified applicants. It would be absurd to think that, because the civil rights act prohibits exclusion of races in hiring, it also prohibits inclusion. That was never the intent of the statute and its a huge distortion.
The overall effect is not even usually that great. Like when California banned consideration of diversity in choosing its students, the black population at the University of California went down from 4% to 3%, and slowly rose back to that level. You'll notice that there are obviously no quotas here - 4% is like half of the black percentage of California as a whole. And asians are have huge representation in the student body compared to their number, currently at over 40% at the University of California despite them being like 10% of the population. So you can hardly claim they're using quotas. At most the diversity policy of most colleges affects maybe a single digit percentage of admissions. But mayos pretend like its the holocaust.
You can see the before and after graph for proposition 209 here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_209#Effect_on_enrollment_and_graduation_rates
Again, hardly any different. Asians were essentially unaffected. Only whites gained a few percentage points for a time.
The legacy admission thing, btw, is one that hugely benefits whites and screws asians. But this group doesn't seem to care very much about that. Shocker. That's because it's a front group from rich resentful right wing mayos, they don't want to lose their bratty undeserving kids meal ticket. There is no organic organizing on this from asian american groups.
It's funny how "racism" works in the right wing mind. Legacy admissions are perfectly OK and non-racist despite having an huge an obviously disproportionate negative effect on minorities because they don't explicitly mention race. But being inclusive is wrong because it does, literally it's just as bad as white supremacy lololol.
Why don't the colleges take your strategy then? Just give extra weight to people who come from families that have never been to college, poor people, people from blighted urban areas, people who's parents rent rather than own a house. Just happens most of these would be really good for black people, but I suppose that's OK regardless of my clear intent because I could do the same thing without mentioning the word "black".
1 LongPostBot 2018-10-17
😴😴😴
I am a bot. Contact for questions
1 snowkarl 2018-10-17
TLDR plz
1 thetinguy 2018-10-17
It’s also funny that he ignored this sentence
1 LSU_Coonass 2018-10-17
if its not a big deal then why is the aclu sperging out over this helping white students?
1 schoolboystirner 2018-10-17
I swear to god watermark intentionally is making his position look as stupid and convoluted as possible.
The "for the sake of diversity" argument is lame posturing but this is a big deal when it comes to what the following policies for underprivileged students will be after this. Colleges just favoring richer students from places with superior school systems isn't very meritocratic.
1 rationalhuckleberry 2018-10-17
As in....the people who have demonstrated their superiority in a quantitative way get preferential treatment?
Perish the thought.
1 Watermark03 2018-10-17
Like legacy admissions right
The legacy admission rate is a full 5x higher than higher at Harvard than non-legacy. A quarter of white admissions are legacy, 5% of Asian admissions are. But yeah the problem is a policy the may at best result in the african american population of the university being ~1% greater using a tiebreaker between equally qualified applicants.
1 Shitposting_Skeleton 2018-10-17
Legacy admissions need to be banned too along with AA, I agree.
1 vtesterlwg 2018-10-17
legacy admissions quantify the fact that kids of CEOs are more likely to be CEOs because networking so its beneficial to train them for the college
1 Aivias 2018-10-17
Orrrrrr are they Jewish?
1 freet0 2018-10-17
But if you admit solely on merit whites also lose all those legacy admits. At one point Harvard released some data on what the class would look like if they eliminated the "personality" or whatever step in admissions and whites barely changed at all. Almost all the gains were in asians.
1 Singulaire 2018-10-17
YT gets fucked over and rich kids get the boot? Yes please!
1 thetinguy 2018-10-17
Asians aren’t the right minority. It’s racism but somehow mayos even fuck that up smh
1 thetinguy 2018-10-17
Did this happen when prop 209 passed? Facts don’t help when you’re dealing with morons. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_209
1 zergling_Lester 2018-10-17
But I have been told that AA doesn't really hurt mayos because it only gets a small number of extra non-mayos in, relative to mayo numbers. And now they saying that repealing AA would benefit mayos after all. Eh, social justice is hard, let's go shopping!
1 22333444455555666666 2018-10-17
real shit tho 😡 tired of restaurants trying to sneak that abomination past you
1 loli_esports 2018-10-17
ACLU is a joke now. https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-aclu-retreats-from-free-expression-1529533065
1 vtesterlwg 2018-10-17
I NEED UR USERNAME
1 loli_esports 2018-10-17
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/Lolisports
1 Thatlookedlikeithurt 2018-10-17
Sriracha Mayo! Haha! I’m dying. That’s amazing. Thank you so much.
1 Watermark03 2018-10-17
Please, don't let me stop you.
1 VelvetDreamers 2018-10-17
So...ACLU is trying to sabotage/impede the mayocide by cultivating a conducive environment for an alliance to form between two mutally discriminated/disfranchised groups out of indignation? Is the merit disparity between Asians/mayos and other ethics groups so substantial?
Is it worth rousing the self-preservation tendencies of Mayos and hushering in the prelude to the Mayo and rice retribution coalition?
How can you threaten the hegemonic class of liberal academia like this?
1 iansmith223 2018-10-17
Yes
1 PM_Pics_of_your_Nips 2018-10-17
The ACLU is ran by the whitest of whites, crying white privilege for his own benefit.
He's the uncle Chad of white guys.
1 LSU_Coonass 2018-10-17
(((whitest))) of (((whites)))
1 Watermark03 2018-10-17
/u/LSU_Coonass is pointing out that the head of ACLU is likely Jewish in this comment
1 Watermark03 2018-10-17
Fake news
Everybody knows this is just funded by resentful mayos who wanted a different angle
1 Bigwooddeck 2018-10-17
I'm too lazy to do it myself but you could look up admissions data for California State Universities before and after they banned the use of race in admissions.
1 thetinguy 2018-10-17
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_209
1 Bigwooddeck 2018-10-17
Bad bot
1 GoodBotBadHuman- 2018-10-17
bad human
1 Bigwooddeck 2018-10-17
Bad bot
1 GoodBotBadHuman- 2018-10-17
bad human
1 thetinguy 2018-10-17
dude bussy lmao
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1 Momruepari 2018-10-17
it's over for ricecels
1 tHeSiD 2018-10-17
TIL affirmative action is just a buzzword for reservations.. I'm Indian and hate reservations