Neo-Nazis are dumb for the obvious reasons, but, I think they are somewhat correct in their criticism of the western world's overall response to the rise of Islam.
Secular liberal values simply cannot address something so visceral as Islam. Islam comes packed with a spirituality and worldview that opposes secular liberalism for reasons that secular liberals are not equipped to combat. The secularist is reduced to having to take up this quasi-self-contradictory position of condemning bigotry (which Muslim nations obviously don't care about) and being tolerant of others' beliefs (again, Islam doesn't care).
Secular liberal values simply cannot address something so visceral as Islam. Islam comes packed with a spirituality and worldview that opposes secular liberalism for reasons that secular liberals are not equipped to combat.
Just like any other Abrahamic religion, the sect and level of adherence make all the difference. Sufis have been around in some form or other basically since Islam started, and they're extremely tolerant. If the 'love one another and accept the faults in others as long as they're not hypocrites or adulterers' religion known as Christianity can turn into an angry fire-and-brimstone affair due to cultural/historical influences, Islam can turn into a liberal one under the right circumstances. The problem is that certain groups of '''''people'''''''''' have spread salafism across the Islamic world in order to make Muslims easier to control, so it's not going to happen any time soon, at least not among Sunnis. Cosmopolitan Shia in places like Tehran tend to be quite liberal.
Maybe, I will honestly say I don't know the end result of the obvious increase in Islam coming into western developed countries. However I am skeptical of the assertion that these people will just drop their cultural values and pick up ours. I think it is more likely that their increased presence will change us before our culture changes them.
However I am skeptical of the assertion that these people will just drop their cultural values and pick up ours.
Why? History has shown time and time again that people different cultures assimilate very well into America, regardless of how different they may have been initially. Though Western Yuro countries are shit at assimilation, so they're in trouble.
I think it is more likely that their increased presence will change us before our culture changes them.
Only inasmuch as people react against them or become more tolerant towards them as they become more familiar with them on a personal level. There's absolutely no chance that America will change in any measurable way with the introduction of Muslim immigrants unless we take in like the entire population of Pakistan. Plus the American immigration system is extremely strict (despite the rhetoric, it's probably the most restrictive in the entire Western world), so it's very difficult for salafis to get in for a few different reasons. They do, but in very, very small numbers.
I am more thinking of western Europe. Since their native populations are declining, and their total population growth is fueled primarily from migrant and refugee families. Also, there is much less rural life in Europe. Mayos in America can always run to Nebraska.
Past examples of cultural assimilation have always been from European countries though. I was raised in Texas, and many of the Mexican immigrants I have met don't think of themselves as Americans. Also, in the past, there was social stigma on not assimilating. My great grandparents spoke German, my grandparents do not, and they were punished if they did. I don't think that kind of aggressive assimilation exists anymore.
I think what is predictable is the coming existence of communities of fundamental Muslims in American cities, like what you have started to see in places like Stockholm.
Western Europe is screwed because it doesn't know how to assimilate migrants. Most of the issues that have arisen due to migration are a consequence of that. Euro countries have all been through numerous migration waves and turned out fine, so it's not like migration in and of itself is the issue. Usually the minority population is just absorbed into the majority population and leaves some minute influences.
Past examples of cultural assimilation have always been from European countries though.
Not always. There was a large Chinese population in the Western US that basically got absorbed. Same with various other groups of non-Western refugees. By gen 3 or 4 they may retain some shallow cultural characteristics, but at that point it's the same muh heritage burger shit that white Americans engage in.
many of the Mexican immigrants I have met don't think of themselves as Americans.
Mexicans who migrate legally and don't live in border towns assimilate incredibly quickly, but it takes a generation or two for Mexicans who migrate illegally to assimilate because they're forced to be insular for obvious reasons.
I don't think that kind of aggressive assimilation exists anymore.
...are you being serious? That's patently false.
I think what is predictable is the coming existence of communities of fundamental Muslims in American cities, like what you have started to see in places like Stockholm.
What do you base that on? It sounds like an emotional fantasy.
Based on the fact that there are still ethnic communities from past immigrant groups that still exist in our cities?
I am being speculative here for the most part. All of this really depends on the grandchildren of the people currently immigrating. I don't pretend to know how they are going to think.
Based on the fact that there are still ethnic communities from past immigrant groups that still exist in our cities?
You mean Americans who feel an affiliation for their 'heritage' and some weak, warped 'ethnic' traits but are otherwise completely assimilated into American culture?
Also, when I am talking about aggressive assimilation, I am thinking specifically of discriminatory practices towards those who did not appear to be typical Americans. It's a good thing this has ended, but it doesn't take a big logical leap to say that this spurred assimilation.
And it still happens now. Unless your only exposure to Americans is 14-year-olds on tumblr and op-ed writers, you'd know that Americans do not treat non-assimilated immigrants well. And that most immigrants to America have immigrated because they believe in the American Dream. If you speak to any given refugee or lottery visa winner you'll find that they're much happier about this country and its culture than the average 5th-gen American.
I am being speculative here for the most part. All of this really depends on the grandchildren of the people currently immigrating. I don't pretend to know how they are going to think.
It seems like you don't have much experience with immigrant communities beyond (illegal?) Mexicans in Texas. I can assure you with all confidence that there is a < .001 chance that legal immigrant communities will have a cultural influence on America. There's no scenario in which that could happen unless America adopts a Yuro-style immigration policy and implements a lax immigration policy while failing to try and assimilate immigrants, and American culture shifts towards accepting immigrants who don't assimilate. None of that is going to happen. Even in NYC where there are huge immigrant enclaves, one of the primary shifts of the govt and activist work there is to make sure that newcomers learn English, get a job, and assimilate. To think that America will somehow be held hostage by the 1% Muslim population that has been primarily hand-selected to immigrate here by virtue of their skills and/or loyalty to America in wars is ridiculous.
And it still happens now. Unless your only exposure to Americans is 14-year-olds on tumblr and op-ed writers, you'd know that Americans do not treat non-assimilated immigrants well. And that most immigrants to America have immigrated because they believe in the American Dream. If you speak to any given refugee or lottery visa winner you'll find that they're much happier about this country and its culture than the average 5th-gen American.
Oh please, my grandfather told stories of kids throwing rocks at him when growing up and how his dad couldn't get a job because he had an accent. Are you seriously saying THAT is common today?
Oh please, my grandfather told stories of kids throwing rocks at him when growing up and how his dad couldn't get a job because he had an accent. Are you seriously saying THAT is common today?
It's not as bad as it was before, but it's still bad. Even in places like SF where there's a huge immigrant population, there's a large stigma against Asians and Indians who practice their traditional cultural norms. And again, most immigrants who legally immigrate to America are invested in the American Dream.
The American Dream is increasingly a fantasy that's no longer based on reality. Social mobility is now higher in many other countries.
America had an exceptional twentieth century thanks to being the only large industrial nation not destroyed by two world wars. But that advantage is shrinking rapidly. Chinese PhD students in America are now realising they can make more money by going back to China after graduating, instead of trying to stay and jump through all the immigration hoops.
Sufism is not a sect snally and there's plenty of intolerance in it. Personally there are many strict adherents of its principles to see its full effect.
Tanzil being, the concept / 'religious fact' that the Qu'ran is a literal holy object conceived of in heaven that was only transcribed('descended'), verbatim, down to earth. That the words of the Qu'ran are the exact words an almighty holy power chose for you to submit(Islam meaning Submission) to.
This is significant, because the combination of Tanzil and Islam's diehard obsession with submitting to God, makes Islam immune to reform. There will never be a New Testament Qu'ran.
You can honestly have them. And make sure you lock up the parents if they step out of line. I mean the faggots ran to the US then are surprised that their daughter is bringing home Tyrone and is pregnant at 15 while their son is selling bussy for drugs. Fuck them.
43 comments
1 SnapshillBot 2018-10-22
"Internalized misogynist" and "prude" are the new slurs for women with standards and boundaries. Don't let newspeak fool you. ;)
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1 HungerArtistatlunch 2018-10-22
Neo-Nazis are dumb for the obvious reasons, but, I think they are somewhat correct in their criticism of the western world's overall response to the rise of Islam.
Secular liberal values simply cannot address something so visceral as Islam. Islam comes packed with a spirituality and worldview that opposes secular liberalism for reasons that secular liberals are not equipped to combat. The secularist is reduced to having to take up this quasi-self-contradictory position of condemning bigotry (which Muslim nations obviously don't care about) and being tolerant of others' beliefs (again, Islam doesn't care).
1 Watermark03 2018-10-22
Muhammad was an intersectional feminist
1 duckraul2 2018-10-22
Interdimensional ephebophile
1 ironicshitpostr 2018-10-22
The original libertarian?
1 Slaanesh_0 2018-10-22
Real talk more like full on pedo full stop
1 automatic_cluck 2018-10-22
In other ways: A cucked pedo rapist.
1 Megazor 2018-10-22
Based and redpilled
Inshallah
1 snallygaster 2018-10-22
Just like any other Abrahamic religion, the sect and level of adherence make all the difference. Sufis have been around in some form or other basically since Islam started, and they're extremely tolerant. If the 'love one another and accept the faults in others as long as they're not hypocrites or adulterers' religion known as Christianity can turn into an angry fire-and-brimstone affair due to cultural/historical influences, Islam can turn into a liberal one under the right circumstances. The problem is that certain groups of '''''people'''''''''' have spread salafism across the Islamic world in order to make Muslims easier to control, so it's not going to happen any time soon, at least not among Sunnis. Cosmopolitan Shia in places like Tehran tend to be quite liberal.
1 HungerArtistatlunch 2018-10-22
Maybe, I will honestly say I don't know the end result of the obvious increase in Islam coming into western developed countries. However I am skeptical of the assertion that these people will just drop their cultural values and pick up ours. I think it is more likely that their increased presence will change us before our culture changes them.
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-10-22
Letting Germans into the US was a mistake I agree
1 HungerArtistatlunch 2018-10-22
Letting all Mayos into the US was a mistake tbh. It would have been better had the Native Americans exterminated all whites on sight.
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-10-22
We tried but their women proved to irresistible, as ours did to the invaders.
1 HungerArtistatlunch 2018-10-22
Gussy, once again, is the source of all our problems.
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-10-22
Quakers had the right idea I've come to understand
1 atsteak 2018-10-22
No, Quakers have sex, you're thinking of the Shakers who didn't and consequently died out. Which is probably why you forgot their name.
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-10-22
It was a 50/50 shot and I sure as hell want going to open up Google.
1 snallygaster 2018-10-22
Why? History has shown time and time again that people different cultures assimilate very well into America, regardless of how different they may have been initially. Though Western Yuro countries are shit at assimilation, so they're in trouble.
Only inasmuch as people react against them or become more tolerant towards them as they become more familiar with them on a personal level. There's absolutely no chance that America will change in any measurable way with the introduction of Muslim immigrants unless we take in like the entire population of Pakistan. Plus the American immigration system is extremely strict (despite the rhetoric, it's probably the most restrictive in the entire Western world), so it's very difficult for salafis to get in for a few different reasons. They do, but in very, very small numbers.
1 HungerArtistatlunch 2018-10-22
I am more thinking of western Europe. Since their native populations are declining, and their total population growth is fueled primarily from migrant and refugee families. Also, there is much less rural life in Europe. Mayos in America can always run to Nebraska.
Past examples of cultural assimilation have always been from European countries though. I was raised in Texas, and many of the Mexican immigrants I have met don't think of themselves as Americans. Also, in the past, there was social stigma on not assimilating. My great grandparents spoke German, my grandparents do not, and they were punished if they did. I don't think that kind of aggressive assimilation exists anymore.
I think what is predictable is the coming existence of communities of fundamental Muslims in American cities, like what you have started to see in places like Stockholm.
1 snallygaster 2018-10-22
Western Europe is screwed because it doesn't know how to assimilate migrants. Most of the issues that have arisen due to migration are a consequence of that. Euro countries have all been through numerous migration waves and turned out fine, so it's not like migration in and of itself is the issue. Usually the minority population is just absorbed into the majority population and leaves some minute influences.
Not always. There was a large Chinese population in the Western US that basically got absorbed. Same with various other groups of non-Western refugees. By gen 3 or 4 they may retain some shallow cultural characteristics, but at that point it's the same muh heritage burger shit that white Americans engage in.
Mexicans who migrate legally and don't live in border towns assimilate incredibly quickly, but it takes a generation or two for Mexicans who migrate illegally to assimilate because they're forced to be insular for obvious reasons.
...are you being serious? That's patently false.
What do you base that on? It sounds like an emotional fantasy.
1 HungerArtistatlunch 2018-10-22
Based on the fact that there are still ethnic communities from past immigrant groups that still exist in our cities?
I am being speculative here for the most part. All of this really depends on the grandchildren of the people currently immigrating. I don't pretend to know how they are going to think.
1 snallygaster 2018-10-22
You mean Americans who feel an affiliation for their 'heritage' and some weak, warped 'ethnic' traits but are otherwise completely assimilated into American culture?
And it still happens now. Unless your only exposure to Americans is 14-year-olds on tumblr and op-ed writers, you'd know that Americans do not treat non-assimilated immigrants well. And that most immigrants to America have immigrated because they believe in the American Dream. If you speak to any given refugee or lottery visa winner you'll find that they're much happier about this country and its culture than the average 5th-gen American.
It seems like you don't have much experience with immigrant communities beyond (illegal?) Mexicans in Texas. I can assure you with all confidence that there is a < .001 chance that legal immigrant communities will have a cultural influence on America. There's no scenario in which that could happen unless America adopts a Yuro-style immigration policy and implements a lax immigration policy while failing to try and assimilate immigrants, and American culture shifts towards accepting immigrants who don't assimilate. None of that is going to happen. Even in NYC where there are huge immigrant enclaves, one of the primary shifts of the govt and activist work there is to make sure that newcomers learn English, get a job, and assimilate. To think that America will somehow be held hostage by the 1% Muslim population that has been primarily hand-selected to immigrate here by virtue of their skills and/or loyalty to America in wars is ridiculous.
1 HungerArtistatlunch 2018-10-22
Oh please, my grandfather told stories of kids throwing rocks at him when growing up and how his dad couldn't get a job because he had an accent. Are you seriously saying THAT is common today?
1 snallygaster 2018-10-22
It's not as bad as it was before, but it's still bad. Even in places like SF where there's a huge immigrant population, there's a large stigma against Asians and Indians who practice their traditional cultural norms. And again, most immigrants who legally immigrate to America are invested in the American Dream.
1 HungerArtistatlunch 2018-10-22
I believe you. What consequences do these immigrants face for practicing their traditions?
1 atsteak 2018-10-22
The American Dream is increasingly a fantasy that's no longer based on reality. Social mobility is now higher in many other countries.
America had an exceptional twentieth century thanks to being the only large industrial nation not destroyed by two world wars. But that advantage is shrinking rapidly. Chinese PhD students in America are now realising they can make more money by going back to China after graduating, instead of trying to stay and jump through all the immigration hoops.
1 Wheretheflowersgrow 2018-10-22
You cant be serious
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-10-22
Most Muslims agree with the tenets of Sufism on a point by point basis. We're whirling into the future!
1 snallygaster 2018-10-22
🧕🔜📈🤩
1 KaraBogan 2018-10-22
Sufism is not a sect snally and there's plenty of intolerance in it. Personally there are many strict adherents of its principles to see its full effect.
1 nahnotreallytho 2018-10-22
The other Abrahamic religions do not have Tanzil.
Tanzil being, the concept / 'religious fact' that the Qu'ran is a literal holy object conceived of in heaven that was only transcribed('descended'), verbatim, down to earth. That the words of the Qu'ran are the exact words an almighty holy power chose for you to submit(Islam meaning Submission) to.
This is significant, because the combination of Tanzil and Islam's diehard obsession with submitting to God, makes Islam immune to reform. There will never be a New Testament Qu'ran.
1 Wololol0w 2018-10-22
You can honestly have them. And make sure you lock up the parents if they step out of line. I mean the faggots ran to the US then are surprised that their daughter is bringing home Tyrone and is pregnant at 15 while their son is selling bussy for drugs. Fuck them.
1 Watermark03 2018-10-22
based
1 Watermark03 2018-10-22
and
1 Watermark03 2018-10-22
red
1 Watermark03 2018-10-22
pilled
1 LILHOMIE1250 2018-10-22
Af
1 ltsSugar 2018-10-22
Manchildren Going Towards Ol' Wahhabism
1 [deleted] 2018-10-22
[removed]
1 MagicHoudini 2018-10-22
Underrated post
1 Linlear 2018-10-22
Based and mashallah
1 King_Drumpf 2018-10-22
Praise Allah, the virgins have finally admitted that they desire Islam.
1 Whaddaulookinat 2018-10-22
Fiqh...