People like you love to act like white countries are the wokest countries in the world, when in reality, Asian and other nonwhite countries are FAR MORE WOKE than white countries.
This is actually true, I recently saw an article about the UN Human Wokeness Index Global Rankings and the asian countries were almost all near the top of the list
A function of religion was to enforce consensus morality. The morality of a region eventually gave way to nation states that encoded consensus of morality into parameters that were enforced by non-religious authorities. This evolved into a distinction between church and state and the vast majority of people in any given society now adhere to a nation's laws but feel no obligation to obey or heed whatever religious sources inspired the laws. Hence in western culture it's perfectly normal to see an atheist adhere devoutly to laws inspired by Judeo Christian values, while militantly rejecting any association with religion. What we have arrived at is a post-Christian society. The key characteristic of a such a place is that we've inherited a mindset without knowing it's origins. And the result is that most people view laws like a game with authorities that can be manipulated instead of something that reflects maintaining personal ethics.
Hence laws are no longer about ethics. Laws are devoid of morality. They are a game of "catch me if you can". Your job is to win, not to be moral. There's no such thing anymore as being immoral. There's just a question of "can you catch me?" and "are you strong enough to imprison me?". Hence anyone by default automatically breaks laws as soon as they can get away with it. The difference between those whom do and those whom don't are just degrees of desperation. Poor people understand the game better than rich people. Hence why "uncivilized" behavior from poor people is just considered "survival". The law of the jungle doesn't care if laws are written or not, it cares if they are enforced. I don't know when mankind lost the ability to internalize laws, but it's certainly gone. As of now all we have are a choice of threatening people to behave or not. People do not act good without a stick to hit them. Religion was a virtual stick and that's gone.
Religious revivalists are genuinely interrested in civilizing society. But religion as force to manage sophisticed moral negotiations is dead. Every succesful society does not rely on religious police to enforce ethics. Iran is the sole legacy of a theocracy and the country is economically a shithole. Hence religiously enforced societies are weak. Religions typically offer two things: group ethics and mental stabilization for interpreting reality. As of now most religions only offer the latter. Hence why they are effective enough to not be killed off entirely but are still too weak to take on the role of organizaing society. This is exactly why dysfunctional evangelical religions that support ideas equivalent to a flat earth cannot be wiped out. They offer a mental stabalization similiar to marijuana or meditation or endorphins. This is a good drug that most people should have in their life but it's insufficient for arbiting moral negotiations. It will fail every time. And this is why no religion is at the forefront of anything. This is exactly why all fundamentalists eventually get butchered by athiests.
China is the best example of this phenomena of morality turning into a game. It's a gem and a beauty to look at. The government understands quite well what they've inherited. A godless people driven by ambition, no social safety nets and extreme competition over finite resources. You really could not of asked for better factors to see what happens to a civilization that lacks the tool of religion to control people. And it's an interesting result. In China there's no concept of morality with strangers. You screw everyone by default except friends and family. And even friends and family are essentially seen as a calculated investment with vacillating allegences. When two people in your moral network fight, you hedge your bets on one instead of ahering to any central arbiting principle. Everyone outside your network is fair game and everyone expects you to screw them by default.
Of course this isn't productive mentality in the long run. It's the kind of socially advantageous thing you can do once. But if your bridge is burned from screwing someone then the value gained is finite. Hence why all western societies leaped way ahead of China in spite of having a less resources, fewer people and in general a lower IQ. Trust is what advances societies. And the west got a bonus on trust through religion.
But now the west is slowly becoming less religious. A veneer is still there. But it will go or just turn into inward praying. The provides the mentally stabalizing effect but lacks the teeth to enforce anything amongst a group. And once that happens nothing will be left to propel the west forward. Ironically China is more prepared for this than the west because they've already gone through the shell shock of cannibalizing themselves.
This makes me ask, how will morality be handled in the future. I can see lots of novel solutions. For example China has already unleashed a social credit score. This is essentially morality deployment 1.0. The reason why it will work is because everyone is forced to get on board on day 1. Any system of morality that attempts to enforce itself by pleaing for people to behave better one cell at a time will lose. This is because of the "prisoner's dilemma". The most optimal solution in everyone's individual interest is to claim to adhere to a group morality but secretly screw people. So you cannot roll out morality individually, you need to force everyone to adhere to the same consequences on day 1. This will encourage everyone to take a stake in morality because there's now an invisible hand that will catch people who try exploit previously unmonitored morality.
I imagine a crypto currency emerging. The fact the fact that you have this crypto currency would indicate that you're interested in trust. The crypto currency should then be linked to a moral code. Whenever a violation is done, there should be a proportionate penalty. For example if you exceed the speed limit, penalty. If you violate a cross walk, penalty. If you spit in public, penalty. If you take over a handicap spot without a plaque, penalty. Penalties can range from fines, to increased prices, to purchase restrictions, etc. Similiarly fines can also be absolute or percentages. And how do you track morality? Some infrastructure will eventually solve this. I imagine it will be a combination of cellphone/wearable, high resolution cameras and bio metric detectors. The point is there will no longer be a "blind spot" in enforcement. You break a law and you will be penalized with highly accurate detection.
This is what happens when society loses religion and people choose to fuck each other over just because "they can get away with it". The vast majority of normal law abiding people are against authoritarianism, but will gradually gladly accept extreme authoritarianism so long as it punishes assholes. Humans are sheep and want a hand to protect them. It's not so much that they crave authority, it's more so that average people are sick and tired of getting bullied without any recourse to have justice served. Imagine the next time someone violates a law. Perhaps they cut you off on the freeway, litter in front of your house, shit on your lawn, blast loud music at 1am in the morning, steal your designated parking space, shove you on the subway, cut in line etc. These are all laws. Just because they are not murder doesn't mean they're optional to follow.
This essentially a blue print for an AI god. Whether you call it a social credit score or narrow AI or authoritarianism it raising an apex predator to govern humans that cannot be killed by humans. Humans will have something capable of resembling an omnipotent literal god in the future.
Well let me ask you a question. Let's suppose that every day you see people break the law. The things people do aren't raping, killing or stealing but they are violations nonetheless. For example you see people jaywalking, causing you to stop driving or miss a light or do a hard brake. Other people exceed the speed limit and swerve in and out of traffic around you as you're driving peacefully. Other people cross solid white lines and you must brake not to hit them. At other times you stand in line politely waiting but people cut in front of you like this.
Now none of these things are bad. But all of these small little violations are uncivilized behavior. Unfortunately there's no way to deal with them. You can't call the police because someone is jaywalking. Nor can you have police on every corner even if they would do something about it.
There are only three ways to respond to this:
(1) I'm an asshole who does these things and this is why I'm against a sentient authority that will punish me for being an asshole. After all if I'm fucking over other people and getting away with it wouldn't it be logical to be against such a system?
(2) I understand the need for such a system, but the solution is worst than the problem. I accept living under the tyranny of uncivilized human behavior that's part of our species. We just suck and there's nothing we can or should do about it.
(3) Humans are perfect angels that can just be told to behave. Penalties, incentives and other psychological herding tricks aren't needed to make people behave.
Do you agree with these camps? If yes, which camp are you in?
17 comments
1 ghostonhalloween 2018-11-06
Proud to say I had the hateful Soros comment on that thread and it lit a match under people’s asses
1 duckraul2 2018-11-06
Settle down gramps
1 ghostonhalloween 2018-11-06
I’m 22.
1 duckraul2 2018-11-06
The eternal boomer is timeless
1 ghostonhalloween 2018-11-06
Desantis today 🗳
1 duckraul2 2018-11-06
No matter who you vote for, you still have to live in Florida
1 ghostonhalloween 2018-11-06
Eglin Base area has never made crazy headlines. I’m good to go. Try again m8
1 SnapshillBot 2018-11-06
We can submit quotes?
Snapshots:
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1 Abu_Ivanka_alAmriki 2018-11-06
This is actually true, I recently saw an article about the UN Human Wokeness Index Global Rankings and the asian countries were almost all near the top of the list
1 justintruedoe 2018-11-06
Why doesn't he use any of the Southeast Asian countries as ones we should model ourself after? They are clearly the wokest!
1 AnnoysTheGoys 2018-11-06
Imagine taking bait this shit-tier
1 LimonKopf 2018-11-06
A function of religion was to enforce consensus morality. The morality of a region eventually gave way to nation states that encoded consensus of morality into parameters that were enforced by non-religious authorities. This evolved into a distinction between church and state and the vast majority of people in any given society now adhere to a nation's laws but feel no obligation to obey or heed whatever religious sources inspired the laws. Hence in western culture it's perfectly normal to see an atheist adhere devoutly to laws inspired by Judeo Christian values, while militantly rejecting any association with religion. What we have arrived at is a post-Christian society. The key characteristic of a such a place is that we've inherited a mindset without knowing it's origins. And the result is that most people view laws like a game with authorities that can be manipulated instead of something that reflects maintaining personal ethics.
Hence laws are no longer about ethics. Laws are devoid of morality. They are a game of "catch me if you can". Your job is to win, not to be moral. There's no such thing anymore as being immoral. There's just a question of "can you catch me?" and "are you strong enough to imprison me?". Hence anyone by default automatically breaks laws as soon as they can get away with it. The difference between those whom do and those whom don't are just degrees of desperation. Poor people understand the game better than rich people. Hence why "uncivilized" behavior from poor people is just considered "survival". The law of the jungle doesn't care if laws are written or not, it cares if they are enforced. I don't know when mankind lost the ability to internalize laws, but it's certainly gone. As of now all we have are a choice of threatening people to behave or not. People do not act good without a stick to hit them. Religion was a virtual stick and that's gone.
Religious revivalists are genuinely interrested in civilizing society. But religion as force to manage sophisticed moral negotiations is dead. Every succesful society does not rely on religious police to enforce ethics. Iran is the sole legacy of a theocracy and the country is economically a shithole. Hence religiously enforced societies are weak. Religions typically offer two things: group ethics and mental stabilization for interpreting reality. As of now most religions only offer the latter. Hence why they are effective enough to not be killed off entirely but are still too weak to take on the role of organizaing society. This is exactly why dysfunctional evangelical religions that support ideas equivalent to a flat earth cannot be wiped out. They offer a mental stabalization similiar to marijuana or meditation or endorphins. This is a good drug that most people should have in their life but it's insufficient for arbiting moral negotiations. It will fail every time. And this is why no religion is at the forefront of anything. This is exactly why all fundamentalists eventually get butchered by athiests.
China is the best example of this phenomena of morality turning into a game. It's a gem and a beauty to look at. The government understands quite well what they've inherited. A godless people driven by ambition, no social safety nets and extreme competition over finite resources. You really could not of asked for better factors to see what happens to a civilization that lacks the tool of religion to control people. And it's an interesting result. In China there's no concept of morality with strangers. You screw everyone by default except friends and family. And even friends and family are essentially seen as a calculated investment with vacillating allegences. When two people in your moral network fight, you hedge your bets on one instead of ahering to any central arbiting principle. Everyone outside your network is fair game and everyone expects you to screw them by default.
Of course this isn't productive mentality in the long run. It's the kind of socially advantageous thing you can do once. But if your bridge is burned from screwing someone then the value gained is finite. Hence why all western societies leaped way ahead of China in spite of having a less resources, fewer people and in general a lower IQ. Trust is what advances societies. And the west got a bonus on trust through religion.
But now the west is slowly becoming less religious. A veneer is still there. But it will go or just turn into inward praying. The provides the mentally stabalizing effect but lacks the teeth to enforce anything amongst a group. And once that happens nothing will be left to propel the west forward. Ironically China is more prepared for this than the west because they've already gone through the shell shock of cannibalizing themselves.
This makes me ask, how will morality be handled in the future. I can see lots of novel solutions. For example China has already unleashed a social credit score. This is essentially morality deployment 1.0. The reason why it will work is because everyone is forced to get on board on day 1. Any system of morality that attempts to enforce itself by pleaing for people to behave better one cell at a time will lose. This is because of the "prisoner's dilemma". The most optimal solution in everyone's individual interest is to claim to adhere to a group morality but secretly screw people. So you cannot roll out morality individually, you need to force everyone to adhere to the same consequences on day 1. This will encourage everyone to take a stake in morality because there's now an invisible hand that will catch people who try exploit previously unmonitored morality.
I imagine a crypto currency emerging. The fact the fact that you have this crypto currency would indicate that you're interested in trust. The crypto currency should then be linked to a moral code. Whenever a violation is done, there should be a proportionate penalty. For example if you exceed the speed limit, penalty. If you violate a cross walk, penalty. If you spit in public, penalty. If you take over a handicap spot without a plaque, penalty. Penalties can range from fines, to increased prices, to purchase restrictions, etc. Similiarly fines can also be absolute or percentages. And how do you track morality? Some infrastructure will eventually solve this. I imagine it will be a combination of cellphone/wearable, high resolution cameras and bio metric detectors. The point is there will no longer be a "blind spot" in enforcement. You break a law and you will be penalized with highly accurate detection.
This is what happens when society loses religion and people choose to fuck each other over just because "they can get away with it". The vast majority of normal law abiding people are against authoritarianism, but will gradually gladly accept extreme authoritarianism so long as it punishes assholes. Humans are sheep and want a hand to protect them. It's not so much that they crave authority, it's more so that average people are sick and tired of getting bullied without any recourse to have justice served. Imagine the next time someone violates a law. Perhaps they cut you off on the freeway, litter in front of your house, shit on your lawn, blast loud music at 1am in the morning, steal your designated parking space, shove you on the subway, cut in line etc. These are all laws. Just because they are not murder doesn't mean they're optional to follow.
This essentially a blue print for an AI god. Whether you call it a social credit score or narrow AI or authoritarianism it raising an apex predator to govern humans that cannot be killed by humans. Humans will have something capable of resembling an omnipotent literal god in the future.
1 LongPostBot 2018-11-06
Sorry ma'am, looks like his delusions have gotten worse. We'll have to admit him,
I am a bot. Contact for questions
1 LimonKopf 2018-11-06
Well let me ask you a question. Let's suppose that every day you see people break the law. The things people do aren't raping, killing or stealing but they are violations nonetheless. For example you see people jaywalking, causing you to stop driving or miss a light or do a hard brake. Other people exceed the speed limit and swerve in and out of traffic around you as you're driving peacefully. Other people cross solid white lines and you must brake not to hit them. At other times you stand in line politely waiting but people cut in front of you like this.
Now none of these things are bad. But all of these small little violations are uncivilized behavior. Unfortunately there's no way to deal with them. You can't call the police because someone is jaywalking. Nor can you have police on every corner even if they would do something about it.
There are only three ways to respond to this:
(1) I'm an asshole who does these things and this is why I'm against a sentient authority that will punish me for being an asshole. After all if I'm fucking over other people and getting away with it wouldn't it be logical to be against such a system?
(2) I understand the need for such a system, but the solution is worst than the problem. I accept living under the tyranny of uncivilized human behavior that's part of our species. We just suck and there's nothing we can or should do about it.
(3) Humans are perfect angels that can just be told to behave. Penalties, incentives and other psychological herding tricks aren't needed to make people behave.
Do you agree with these camps? If yes, which camp are you in?
1 LongPostBot 2018-11-06
Good job bobby, here's a star
I am a bot. Contact for questions
1 LongPostBot 2018-11-06
Good job bobby, here's a star
I am a bot. Contact for questions
1 LimonKopf 2018-11-06
Goddamnit the bot double-posted. The Chinese AI God has already failed us.