The joke is that this November your vote counts exactly as much as a senile retiree whose political sources are nestled between a thread of gay furry porn and a thread of kids wearing swimsuits.
Either way I'm sure it sucks, but is it more painful to be misgendered a cisgendered person or a trans person?
I have and hear different opinions, but the other day someone said it was "refreshing" to have someone ask what their preferred pronouns were, and all I could think was "I'mpretty suremost cis people might not be all too keen on that"..."
I think it depends on whether you're a man or a woman if you're cis.
A woman looking like a man is pretty universally seen as bad and usually synonymous with being an ugly woman. A man looking like a woman is more of a mixed bag, since it's sort of emasculating if you care about that - probably means there aren't a whole lot of muscle laying around and all - but usually implies fairly good looks, at least as far as face goes.
As to cis or trans, I would say it's mostly the same if the misgendering is roughly equal. However it's probably quite hard for a cis person to be androgynous enough that the misgendering comes close to what many trans experience.
My thinking was along the lines of, "Failing at something you're trying at that might not be easy to do" and "failing at something that is supposed to come naturally and effortlessly, that you shouldn't have to try at all for".
However it's probably quite hard for a cis person to be androgynous enough that the misgendering comes close to what many trans experience.
As far as the proportionality, I dunno man. I've met enough of what we used to call "tomboys" and 'bulldykes'(and we seem to be looking at a whole thread full of them) that it seems a lot more common to me than I guess it seems to you.
Because of that I would wager this happens to way more cis women than it ever happens to trans women, even if it happens to them with less frequency at an individual level.
Frankly they're one of the groups of people I feel some real authentic sympathy over in the modern political conversation. They probably preferred it when people just made fun of them to when they were trying to patronizingly check if they were born with a vag and how comfortable they are with it.
I've met enough of what we used to call "tomboys" and 'bulldykes'(and we seem to be looking at a whole thread full of them) that it seems a lot more common to me than I guess it seems to you.
I dunno, honestly I've met very, very few (adult) people that would be androgynous enough to be misgendered. Maybe it's because I'm not a native english speaker, but to me tomboy implies boyish looks/lack of femininity but not necessarily to the point of being misgendered.
In fact I honestly can't think of any particular example of someone androgynous enough for that except one man I knew and saw being misgendered and asked whether he was a man or a woman. He might have been intersex now that I think of it, hell, maybe even actually a trans man.
TBH maybe that, as you said, it might be us having different perspectives. The above example of a man being misgendered, I honestly wouldn't have thought, especially since he was over 6'. So maybe I just don't consider many people are misgenderable because I myself don't misgender people (Or am not corrected about it), but some "less gender-savvy" people might actually misgender people I wouldn't.
Because of that I would wager this happens to way more cis women than it ever happens to trans women, even if it happens to them with less frequency at an individual level.
Might be true. I would say it happens to trans women more, but that's only a quick thought, obviously I've never tried to calculate the proportion of "misgenderable" people in either population and what actual number that amounted to.
They probably preferred it when people just made fun of them for looking mannish, to nowadays when people are patronizingly checking if they were born with a vag and how comfortable they are with it.
I find it highly ironic in the case of TERFs and thus entertaining in their case, but yeah, it's probably not great otherwise. However I'm not sure trans' people being more widely known changes much, though maybe that's a country-based difference, since if half the stuff TERFs say is true, the USA definitely are being hysterical about trans' people compared to France (Where I live). Though, overall, French people give little f#cks about what other people do behind closed doors, and are noticeably less religious.
The irony being that trans' people have more rights in France yet there is never any real problem with them, or any "widespread" accommodations made for them like asking nouns or whatever. Obviously there is discrimination and violence against them, let's not kid ourselves, but it is widely condemned and there is no public debate around them. Matter of fact, the only time I heard about trans' people on TV were about them simply receiving more rights - with 0 debate surrounding the thing - and documentaries sympathizing with them.
I dunno, honestly I've met very, very few (adult) people that would be androgynous enough to be misgendered.
The fact that you live in france probably explains a lot of that, really. For all the reasons you guessed at, plus there are a lot of big fat fatty fat fatsos where I live. Which slides many older women into the more butch looking category. IE, fat women with short hair who doesn't wear makeup and wear men's clothing.
I'm certainly not pointing to any kind of statistic, but me spitballing on the proportionality is mostly based on me just assuming not enough trans people exist to drive up their numbers to a comparable level. But you're right, I'm sure the for trans folk it happens to, it happens to those individuals a whole hell of a lot more.
A woman looking like a man is pretty universally seen as bad and usually synonymous with being an ugly woman.
I think that women who look like teenage boys can be really attractive. But, I like androgyny. But, saying a woman looks "mannish" is never a compliment, you're right.
That would fit the bill if I didn't like cis dick so much more than clits or trans dicks. I think they are attractive though, and like looking at them. It's kind of like when a hot guy with good hair and a thick, great beard gets posted on Reddit. And dudes in the comment are saying, no homo, but that guy's hot.
The statement is actually outright wrong; a lot of models have one or two "masculine" features, even if they're overall very feminine elsewhere. Tall, broad shoulders, prominent chins, etc are all sought-after traits as long as you have the rest of the goods.
I agree. Rain Dove is gorgeous. Mannish has never been a complimentary way to describe them though. Perhaps striking or handsome is used. Same as womanish. Old, gossipy fags like Truman Capote are womanish. It's not a compliment. Its good things are changing because saying someone has things alike with the opposite sex should never be a pejorative. It causes a lot of pain.
Eh, a woman can look and do stuff like a man as long as you realize it's a woman. You can give a woman a dude's haircut, slap a suit on her and make sure she's got plenty of scotch and cigars for the next high-stakes poker game, and she will still be seen as a woman who is coping men's style because she likes it. But if there is zero effort put into it, then that's where the confusion is. Especially with transexuals, where there is genuine fucking confusion.
A woman looking like a man is pretty universally seen as bad and usually synonymous with being an ugly woman.
Really, the U.S.A and many other western countries are way more open and accepting to women who look like men whereas men who look like women will often get the shit beat out of them. The only place I can think of where people prefer their men and boys to look like women is in the middle east. But even in countries like Afghanistan, they accept Bacha Posh-which are women who present as men so as they have more freedom.
That still doesn't make sense. Give some examples of what it would mean for a woman to look like a man and not be accepted by society. In the U.S.A if a woman has small breast, lacks curves, wears her hair short or long, is tall, has a strong jaw line, she's still accepted and protected by society and people will stand with her.
If a man has curves, wears his hair long, has man boobs, lacks muscle, is short-society will label him a whimp, a pussy, a sissy, an incel, a fattie, a virgin, a white knight and anything else that humiliates him as a result of him stepping out of the gender norm of what it means to look like a man.
There's a reason why there are so many jokes about women leaving betas for Chads because Chads represent what it means to be a man in American society.
What I find most striking is the utter lack of empathy in the femoids. Oh that poor woman who was put in male jail and pissed herself? a TIM would have been totally fine, probably. Another one was chased, spat on, kicked, threatened, while called a fag? if only she actually had a penis, the male privilege would have shielded her, probably.
55 comments
1 SnapshillBot 2018-12-03
The joke is that this November your vote counts exactly as much as a senile retiree whose political sources are nestled between a thread of gay furry porn and a thread of kids wearing swimsuits.
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1 ChateauJack 2018-12-03
no shit
1 jewdanksdad 2018-12-03
Well except by their dozen or so cats who are hungry for foods
1 TheCodexx 2018-12-03
"Catcalling is bad and shouldn't happen to anyone but I'm mad I don't get more attention from dudes" -The Absolute State of Feminism
1 redthrow1125 2018-12-03
You're not joking.
1 EternallyMiffed 2018-12-03
I'd catcall her probably, also make lewd gestures towards her general vicinity. I wonder what she looks like now(guessing that's an old image)
1 Burnnoticelover 2018-12-03
Is it catcalling if you just yell “Leedle leedle leedle Lee!” At them?
1 -Kite-Man- 2018-12-03
Either way I'm sure it sucks, but is it more painful to be misgendered a cisgendered person or a trans person?
I have and hear different opinions, but the other day someone said it was "refreshing" to have someone ask what their preferred pronouns were, and all I could think was "I'm pretty sure most cis people might not be all too keen on that"..."
1 Nadare3 2018-12-03
I think it depends on whether you're a man or a woman if you're cis.
A woman looking like a man is pretty universally seen as bad and usually synonymous with being an ugly woman. A man looking like a woman is more of a mixed bag, since it's sort of emasculating if you care about that - probably means there aren't a whole lot of muscle laying around and all - but usually implies fairly good looks, at least as far as face goes.
As to cis or trans, I would say it's mostly the same if the misgendering is roughly equal. However it's probably quite hard for a cis person to be androgynous enough that the misgendering comes close to what many trans experience.
1 -Kite-Man- 2018-12-03
My thinking was along the lines of, "Failing at something you're trying at that might not be easy to do" and "failing at something that is supposed to come naturally and effortlessly, that you shouldn't have to try at all for".
As far as the proportionality, I dunno man. I've met enough of what we used to call "tomboys" and 'bulldykes'(and we seem to be looking at a whole thread full of them) that it seems a lot more common to me than I guess it seems to you.
Because of that I would wager this happens to way more cis women than it ever happens to trans women, even if it happens to them with less frequency at an individual level.
Frankly they're one of the groups of people I feel some real authentic sympathy over in the modern political conversation. They probably preferred it when people just made fun of them to when they were trying to patronizingly check if they were born with a vag and how comfortable they are with it.
1 Nadare3 2018-12-03
I dunno, honestly I've met very, very few (adult) people that would be androgynous enough to be misgendered. Maybe it's because I'm not a native english speaker, but to me tomboy implies boyish looks/lack of femininity but not necessarily to the point of being misgendered.
In fact I honestly can't think of any particular example of someone androgynous enough for that except one man I knew and saw being misgendered and asked whether he was a man or a woman. He might have been intersex now that I think of it, hell, maybe even actually a trans man.
TBH maybe that, as you said, it might be us having different perspectives. The above example of a man being misgendered, I honestly wouldn't have thought, especially since he was over 6'. So maybe I just don't consider many people are misgenderable because I myself don't misgender people (Or am not corrected about it), but some "less gender-savvy" people might actually misgender people I wouldn't.
Might be true. I would say it happens to trans women more, but that's only a quick thought, obviously I've never tried to calculate the proportion of "misgenderable" people in either population and what actual number that amounted to.
I find it highly ironic in the case of TERFs and thus entertaining in their case, but yeah, it's probably not great otherwise. However I'm not sure trans' people being more widely known changes much, though maybe that's a country-based difference, since if half the stuff TERFs say is true, the USA definitely are being hysterical about trans' people compared to France (Where I live). Though, overall, French people give little f#cks about what other people do behind closed doors, and are noticeably less religious.
The irony being that trans' people have more rights in France yet there is never any real problem with them, or any "widespread" accommodations made for them like asking nouns or whatever. Obviously there is discrimination and violence against them, let's not kid ourselves, but it is widely condemned and there is no public debate around them. Matter of fact, the only time I heard about trans' people on TV were about them simply receiving more rights - with 0 debate surrounding the thing - and documentaries sympathizing with them.
1 LongPostBot 2018-12-03
Wow, you must be a JP fan
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1 -Kite-Man- 2018-12-03
The fact that you live in france probably explains a lot of that, really. For all the reasons you guessed at, plus there are a lot of big fat fatty fat fatsos where I live. Which slides many older women into the more butch looking category. IE, fat women with short hair who doesn't wear makeup and wear men's clothing.
I'm certainly not pointing to any kind of statistic, but me spitballing on the proportionality is mostly based on me just assuming not enough trans people exist to drive up their numbers to a comparable level. But you're right, I'm sure the for trans folk it happens to, it happens to those individuals a whole hell of a lot more.
1 Protista_of_Peace 2018-12-03
I think that women who look like teenage boys can be really attractive. But, I like androgyny. But, saying a woman looks "mannish" is never a compliment, you're right.
1 2odastream 2018-12-03
Yikes.
1 Protista_of_Peace 2018-12-03
😤 What can I say? I have diverse tastes.
1 -Kite-Man- 2018-12-03
You my friend should marry a transman. Shit's thoroughly good.
And there's bonus hilarity because they often resent the contemporary tumblr-esque LGBT community more than some full-blown homophobes.
1 Protista_of_Peace 2018-12-03
That would fit the bill if I didn't like cis dick so much more than clits or trans dicks. I think they are attractive though, and like looking at them. It's kind of like when a hot guy with good hair and a thick, great beard gets posted on Reddit. And dudes in the comment are saying, no homo, but that guy's hot.
1 SoldierofNod 2018-12-03
/r/bois
1 Protista_of_Peace 2018-12-03
That's what I'm talking about.
1 memoryplays 2018-12-03
yeah but are you really into androgyny? or do you just like women with short hair?
1 Protista_of_Peace 2018-12-03
https://www.syfy.com/faceoff/cast/nora-hewitt/9and
This is what I had in mind. It's the whole look, including clothing, mannerisms and the vibe given off.
1 POST_BUSSY 2018-12-03
You mean stuff like [this]?
1 Protista_of_Peace 2018-12-03
Too pretty.
1 CadicalRentrist 2018-12-03
This post right here, officer.
1 Protista_of_Peace 2018-12-03
https://www.fbi.gov/
1 dootwthesickness_II 2018-12-03
I agree. A certain kind of facial androgyny can be attractive. Think Marissa Miller or Heidi Kalyn.
1 DistortedLines 2018-12-03
Women who have masculine features are hot though, same with men who have feminine features.
1 POST_BUSSY 2018-12-03
😌
1 umar4812 2018-12-03
Sup bby
1 Protista_of_Peace 2018-12-03
Exactly.
1 TheCodexx 2018-12-03
The statement is actually outright wrong; a lot of models have one or two "masculine" features, even if they're overall very feminine elsewhere. Tall, broad shoulders, prominent chins, etc are all sought-after traits as long as you have the rest of the goods.
1 Protista_of_Peace 2018-12-03
I agree. Rain Dove is gorgeous. Mannish has never been a complimentary way to describe them though. Perhaps striking or handsome is used. Same as womanish. Old, gossipy fags like Truman Capote are womanish. It's not a compliment. Its good things are changing because saying someone has things alike with the opposite sex should never be a pejorative. It causes a lot of pain.
1 BigTiddyAnimeWaifu 2018-12-03
yes, excellent taste
1 Protista_of_Peace 2018-12-03
😳
1 ArlenBilldozer 2018-12-03
Eh, a woman can look and do stuff like a man as long as you realize it's a woman. You can give a woman a dude's haircut, slap a suit on her and make sure she's got plenty of scotch and cigars for the next high-stakes poker game, and she will still be seen as a woman who is coping men's style because she likes it. But if there is zero effort put into it, then that's where the confusion is. Especially with transexuals, where there is genuine fucking confusion.
1 Signedupforthisshit2 2018-12-03
Really, the U.S.A and many other western countries are way more open and accepting to women who look like men whereas men who look like women will often get the shit beat out of them. The only place I can think of where people prefer their men and boys to look like women is in the middle east. But even in countries like Afghanistan, they accept Bacha Posh-which are women who present as men so as they have more freedom.
1 Nadare3 2018-12-03
I'm not talking about presenting or anything, I'm talking about the body itself.
1 Signedupforthisshit2 2018-12-03
That still doesn't make sense. Give some examples of what it would mean for a woman to look like a man and not be accepted by society. In the U.S.A if a woman has small breast, lacks curves, wears her hair short or long, is tall, has a strong jaw line, she's still accepted and protected by society and people will stand with her.
If a man has curves, wears his hair long, has man boobs, lacks muscle, is short-society will label him a whimp, a pussy, a sissy, an incel, a fattie, a virgin, a white knight and anything else that humiliates him as a result of him stepping out of the gender norm of what it means to look like a man.
There's a reason why there are so many jokes about women leaving betas for Chads because Chads represent what it means to be a man in American society.
1 Nadare3 2018-12-03
Something you want to tell us about your dating life ?
1 Signedupforthisshit2 2018-12-03
...I have a big cock.
1 2odastream 2018-12-03
If someone has to ask what you're pronouns are you probably dont pass too well.
1 -Kite-Man- 2018-12-03
Huh...do we still call it "passing" if it's in reference to cis people?
1 2odastream 2018-12-03
cis-passing? pacissing?
1 memoryplays 2018-12-03
the irony is that i'm guessing most trans people just assume people are cis
1 Minimum_T-Giraff 2018-12-03
Mindblown. Now it makes sense why they are so hellbent on pronouns.
1 TheSubredditPolice 2018-12-03
I guess it depends on how much plastic surgery the trans person sunk into themselves.
1 pisserpatterwater 2018-12-03
First one is genuinely sad and an example of why prison reform is necessary.
1 Trannypostingaccount 2018-12-03
Wow, professor Oak levelled up.
Are you a kid or are you a squid?
1 Nadare3 2018-12-03
Have you missed the news ? He doesn't ask that anymore.
1 zergling_Lester 2018-12-03
What I find most striking is the utter lack of empathy in the femoids. Oh that poor woman who was put in male jail and pissed herself? a TIM would have been totally fine, probably. Another one was chased, spat on, kicked, threatened, while called a fag? if only she actually had a penis, the male privilege would have shielded her, probably.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/229/912/697.jpg
1 Nadare3 2018-12-03
In one of the comments, one says it isn't transphobia, then basically explains she got beat up because people thought she was trans'.
1 OnAllDAY 2018-12-03
A lot of women look like men if they don’t have tons of makeup on.
1 redblaze17 2018-12-03
Some GC members belong to right-wing groups on reddit like menrights or the_donald.
1 POST_BUSSY 2018-12-03