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libertarianism and being co-opted by fascists

name a more iconic duo

When the left censor: Private organizations have the right to censor, free speech only protects you from the government!

When the left IS censored: OMG YOU ARE LITERALLY A FASCIST! WHY DO YOU LOVE HITLER SO MUCH??!

elaborate

How much whiskey am I gonna need for this click?

Better go ahead and go to the store friend.

none if you arent a fucking degenerate

Soooo, People's Vodka then.

actually and unironically less degenerate

anythings better than Manly Sugar Booze

so thats a no

They don't believe in hiring quotas nor in government-financed recreational abortions, so of course they are fascists. This is just like in The Handmaid's Tale.

Nah, just the mods supporting fascism and being a white nationalist

You can't just use facts in an argument with chronically aggrieved reactionaries. That's not fair!

How is explaining von Mises' opinion on fascism = supporting fascism?

I'm too lazy to delve into the accusations against rightc0ast right now, maybe another time. But there's a lot of jilted socialists who want to see his head on a spike, so I'd take all of the accusations with a big load of salt.

Why do you people never own up to who you are. It's so tedious. At least tankies admit that they're garbage.

There's literally no way to honestly call Mises a fascist.

Except that one quote where he said police should extrajudicially beat and or murder homeless people.

Next you'll be telling me Julius Evola isn't a fascist either.

I'm not aware of any such quote. Link?

Homeless aren't even really people :/

[removed]

yeah, you cant just call the guy who thought fascism "saved european civilization" a fascist, thats absurd

christ you people are tiresome

why don't you stay in chapotraphouse where you can circlejerk in peace?

it's full of liberals, so no thanks. also, unlike r/libertarian, this isnt a safe space where youll be sheltered from hurty left-wing opinions, deal with it

Are you lying right now or have you been brainwashed like so many others by only having seen half the quote and not hearing the context?

Mises is an anti-socialist in 1927 Vienna, fascism is on the the opposing the growing socialist influence in Europe, and this is before WWII, before the Nazis became evil incarnate. Sure looking back we all know the fascists were evil from the beginning, but this was not obvious in those days. Judging this quote therefore as if he knew the future is ridiculous.

The passage from Mises as selectively quoted:

It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aimed at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has for the moment saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history.

Mises’s actual conclusion:

But though its policy has brought salvation for the moment, it is not of the kind which could promise continued success. Fascism was an emergency makeshift. To view it as something more would be a fatal error.

Mises opposed fascism too. He only praises it for keeping Europe from going socialist in that period, not for anything else.

It should also be noted that Mises was a Jew and was hunted by the Nazis and barely escaped Europe at the last minute.

https://mises.org/wire/mises-fascism-again

This is one of the worst post I have EVER seen. Delete it.

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Mises is an anti-socialist in 1927 Vienna

yes, a fascist, like i said. thank you for admitting you were wrong

No, a classical liberal. Are you defining all anti-socialists as fascists? Because that would be ridiculous.

No, a classical liberal.

lmfao

anyone who identifies as "anti-socialist" is a fascist, yes, because liberalism is not a functional political system and any liberal government eventually has to ally with either socialism or fascism to sustain itself. if you explicitly rule out allegiance with socialism that only leaves one option, and is a dead giveaway to what libidinal impulses are really guiding you.

You're a bit insane, and supposing there are only two directions possible is literally stupid.

Ancaps represent a third direction, and it's an extremely viable one since it functions in proven market processes and principles.

Unlike socialism.

Ancaps represent a third direction, and it's an extremely viable one since it functions in proven market processes and principles.

hahahah

hahahahahahahahahahahahahah

When do tankies ever admit to being horrible?

They admit to being tankies which amounts to being horrible.

Most facists dance around their beliefs and pretend they aren't fash. It's annoying.

I misunderstood you then.

Pointing out that Mises wasn't a fascist isn't "supporting fascism."

Literally one mod lmao.

Is it not?

ok but who DOESN'T believe in government funded recreational abortions?

taking your family to the abortion park in the summer is a time-honored american tradition

It's all about the health benefits of the fetal stem cells. For an optimal rejuvenation effect, planned parenthood recommends semi-annual pregnancies terminated after about four months.

You have to be a troll, no one is THIS fucking stupid. No way.

you really think someone would do that? write senselessly provocative comments on /r/drama?

taking your family to the abortion park in the summer is a time-honored american tradition

this tbh.

Yeah because those private organizations aren't forums ostensibly dedicated to the principles of libertarianism.

None of the principles of libertarianism state that you have unlimited free speech everywhere you go. E.g.: You can't put a sign in my yard and start screeching about free speech when I remove it.

Last I checked, the left; and Reddit, agreed that moderators effectively "own" their subreddits. So it's their community with their rules. Don't like it, go make your own community. With it's rules.

Last I checked, the left; and Reddit, agreed that moderators effectively "own" their subreddits. 

So your response to "leftists" turning their subs into authoritarian shitholes (citation needed because plently of right wing subs do the same shit) is to do the exact same thing back? Way to destroy your principles to own the libs

That's... not even close to what I said.

Yeah you were citing property rights as a justification for /libertarian to go full authoritarian shithole. I igored that part because it is a complete non sequitur. A subreddit is not anybody's "property" as nobody owns it. Mods are janitors that keep out spammers and illegal content, they don't own the sub.

I just think it's hilarious that you guys are rolling over to a mod team filled with self admitted fascists to own the 5 libs that visit your sub. It's really the fate of all right libertarians to spread their cheeks for their fascist brethren.

full authoritarian shithole

They didn't though. The rules are pretty much the same as every other subreddit. Don't be an asshole, don't troll, stay on tropic. If that's too difficult to follow than it's good that they'll ban you lol.

If it's not an authoritarian shithole then why have they brought on openly fascist mods and gotten rid of the public mod logs? It's now forbidden to criticize the mod team and their definitions of (concern)trolling are so vague that they can be stretched to ban anyone who engages in wrongthink.

openly fascist mods

Oh please, everyone is a fascist to you people.

It's now forbidden to criticize the mod team

No it isn't. It's against the rules to just spat at insults against them. If all you do is screech and call them fascists with no substance, then yeah, you've broken the golden rule, get banned.

Lol I barely ever call people fascist because I still think that word has meaning. Take a look at where your new mods post the most and then tell me that they don't have strong authoritarian leanings. Enjoy your sub turning into an echo chamber. I hope it was worth it to keep the Chapotards out.

Lol I barely ever call people fascist because I still think that word has meaning. Take a look at where your new mods post the most and then tell me that they don't have strong authoritarian leanings.

Where they post is irrelevant. That's poisoning the well fallacy.

But what the fuck, let's take a look at their post history:

avengingturnip posts the most in EndlessWar, a subreddit all about the endless war that the US (and it's allies) seem to get into. As we all know, Fascists are peace loving people who hate war. 🙄 Next big subreddits for this guy are a bunch of Catholic subreddits (all Christians are Nazi's of course, THATS A FACT) /r/Libertarian (the fascist subreddit in question) and /r/DescentIntoTyranny (because fascists hate Tyranny).

Hayeku posts the most in /r/Libertarian (the fascist subreddit in question), /r/Economics (because only a fascist would use money...), and /r/politics. Ok that last one actually makes sense, he's DEFINITELY a fascist.

Z3F posts a bunch in /r/T_D (again, we all know the well is poisoned there so fascist #1!), a hell of a lot of NSFW subreddits (So he's a horny fascist, I wont judge), He ALSO posts a lot in /r/GifRecipes! (COMRADE STALIN ONLY EDITED STILL IMAGES! MOVING IMAGES ARE A FASCIST PLOT!)

JobDestroyer posts a lot in /r/GoldandBlack (a ancap subreddit, ONLY FASCISTS WANT NO GOVERNMENT!), /r/FuckTheAlt which dislikes both the "alt-left" and "alt-right" (ONLY A TRUE FASCIST HAS THIS TYPE OF SELF HATE!), /r/QualitySocialism (only fascists dislike socialism, you are either with socialism or you're a fascist!).

nixfu is active in fascist subreddits like /r/Libertarian (the fascist subreddit in question), /r/conspiracy (anyone who questions the government is a fascist), /r/Conservative and /r/T_D (Again, anyone I disagree with is a fascist, even the moderates in T_D).

FormerlyFlintlox posts the most in /r/Libertarian (the fascist subreddit in question), /r/Libertarianmeme (only fascists meme), and /r/Anarcho_Capitalism (a ancap subreddit, ONLY FASCISTS WANT NO GOVERNMENT!)

austrian_economics posts the most in /r/Anarcho_Capitalism (a ancap subreddit, ONLY FASCISTS WANT NO GOVERNMENT!), /r/privacy (Only fascists want privacy, the state should see all), /r/whowillbuildtheroads (only fascists meme).

So yeah, sorry but I DO NOT SEE WHAT YOU SEE. The places they post the most seem to match what I'd expect from /r/libertarian moderators.

Good job bobby, here's a star

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Oh thank you Mr. Bot.

I didn't know that people who are actively involved in a personality cult surrounding the president of the United States are the ideal libertarians. You have 2 of those, along with an obvious sock puppet account (hayeku). More to the point though is that adding 7 mods of dubious provenance in one fell swoop smacks of a blatant takeover by right Libertarians. Do you have a single left libertarian on that mod team? Nope! Time to ban all the wrongthink left libertarians to make the sub into another circlejerk echo chamber where none of your ideas are challenged.

That's poisoning the well fallacy.

No, it is not.

Poisoning the well is a premptive ad-hominem attack on a person.

Saying that someone is wrong because they are a regular T_D or LSC user is fallacious.

Saying that someone has authoritarian tendencies because they are a regular T_D or LSC user is not fallacious.

lmao that you think ancaps arent fascists

Oh hell no. Of course I know they're fascist. Along with everyone else.

Except those chosen by our glorious comrade Stalin!

stalin was almost a fashy as your average ancap. not quite, but almost

Then why hide the mod logs?

You conveniently ignored that part.

There are lots of reasons to keep it private. They don't want to deal with the constant wet blankets whining about every little thing, they don't want people trying to bypass their bans, etc...

As for the real reason to keep it private, you'd have to ask them. I honestly don't care if it's private or public. It has no bearing on anything really.

https://www.removeddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/a4cfkd/new_rules_for_rlibertarian/ebdgmgh/

You're an idiot...have you ever looked up the history of Libertarianism or do you just gargle on whatever the Koch brothers send you?

don't troll,

That's a tough one because although it sounds clear-cut, it's purely subjective.

Yeah, I've argued with subscribers there that didn't want me commenting because I'm a liberal, that based on the sidebar I have as much right to comment there as anyone else. If the mods decide to ban me, well it's their sub.

It's disappointing to me but I can sorta see their issue. CTH has made a coordinated effort to continually disrupt the sub with bad faith trolling.

Yeah, I've argued with subscribers there that didn't want me commenting because I'm a liberal, that based on the sidebar I have as much right to comment there as anyone else. If the mods decide to ban me, well it's their sub.

It's disappointing to me but I can sorta see their issue. CTH has made a coordinated effort to continually disrupt the sub with bad faith trolling.

Last I checked, the left; and Reddit, agreed that moderators effectively "own" their subreddits.

Moderators own nothing not even the basement they moderate from.

You can't put a sign in my yard and start screeching about free speech when I remove it.

You're not being punished for your speech, you're being punished for trespass. Completely unrelated.

You're getting punished for sullying my yard with your speech. Just like how people normally sully /r/libertarian. Now it's finally getting cleaned up.

Maybe you should have kept your speech trimmed according to community guidelines.

Let's modify the argument a little: let's say that I say that the public is allowed to post signs in my yard under a set of rules, with one of the rules being that I'll take them down if they violate the rules.. I go out in my yard in the morning and there's signs that break my rules, so I take them down. You're the one who put it up and you come stand in my yard and screech about free speech.

Let's modify the argument a little:

No.

let's say that I say that the public is allowed to post signs in my yard under a set of rules, with one of the rules being that I'll take them down if they violate the rules..

You won't.

I go out in my yard in the morning and there's signs that break my rules, so I fuck them publicly. You're the one who put it up and you come stand in my yard and screech about free speech.

I wouldn't.

No.

You won't.

I wouldn't.

I'm starting to understand why /r/libertarian is banning people.

Libertarian

banning

No, I think that one snuck by you.

Maybe you're confusing "libertarian" and "libertine", I don't know. They're both retarded.

No, the rumor you fuck signs. I just add libertarian memes to shit for funsies

I mean you're getting a lot of flak for this but the idea that you could have a community without a strong centralised government ruling it and people would chose to act in a manner that respected each other is ridiculous.

no, but our sub was and that's what we loved about it.

For a group so worried about brigadiers you guys sure are happy to come correct the record over here. But unlike r/libertarian we welcome you guys to come make a stink over here. The only rule you must follow is to post bussy so get your camera out friend.

I am not worried about brigades at all. I do not think anyone should be banned just because they belong to certain other subs. I believe this is the death of what made the sub great and I expect to be banned within the hour for stating just that (which is now against the rules). Fuck the mods.

Rip little buddy

yep, banned. Not even half an hour.

Welcome in your new home, r/drama. You are retarded, so you are welcome.

We have the best extra chromosomes, don't we folks?

Thank you SJCards! Very cool!!

I believe this is the death of what made the sub great

It could be. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how the mods implement these new rules.

I have been a long time user of the sub and don't really go to other political subs because they are all garbage. I have just been banned because I criticized these rules. Some of these mods are LITERAL fascists, there is no way these rules aren't used to censor people. (they already have been, the mods are banning people simply because they post to ChapoTrapHouse)

Yeah, I just looked over some of the mods posting histories.

RIP r/libertarian.

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You're violating the rule against concern trolling. No real libertarian actually believes in liberty or free speech for those they disagree with, so stop speaking in bad faith as if they do.

Alternatively... Libertarians are bridal authoritarians with a ever thin veneer of ideals of freedoms.

No. Look up Karl Popper and the Paradox of Tolerance.

:3

Popper argues pretty strongly against this sort of heavy-handed authoritarianism. Everyone always focuses on the part where he argues a limit exists beyond which we don't need to tolerate intolerance, but ignores the part where he advocates keeping it in check through rational argument.

That's the joke.

Here's the thing though, I have been a member of the community for a while and I am not one of the CTH trolls. I in fact do not like them one bit. But we prided ourselves on being an open sub that did not silence people for their political opinions, and the mods have ruined that in the span of a week.

Then you've taken pride in the wrong thing. /r/libertarian should be about libertarianism (hence the name). NOT about other ideologies. People complained about the low quality posts with all the memes that made it to the front page. Now it's usually just posts about socialism or how everything is fascist.

I'm glad they're cleaning up that shit whole. It started to mirror /r/politics WAAAY too much.

r/politics mods actively censor articles they don't like. It's ironic that you used that criticism because that is the road /r/Libertarian just started on.

So did the mod team change? I've heard that it did but I don't know for sure.

[removed]

yeah they recently added a bunch of alt-right mods.

Yeah, I just checked some of their posting histories.

did it make you yikes?

More like disappointed. I liked r/libertarian.

i dont believe you

k

I can never take a sub seriously when it starts to take aim at supposed "concern trolling". It's just a thinnly veiled way to shut down discussion with some they disagree with. I have honestly never heard anyone use it except some left-leaning subs. I hope these rules are a joke.

Well concern trolling is a thing, but I agree that using it for the basis of a ban is open to rampant abuse.

lol

of course

Try r/capitalismVsocialism of you want oppositional discussion and no moderation, a sub with a topic like r/libertarian has to be kept on topic.

a sub with a topic like r/libertarian has to be kept on topic.

Does it? It operated perfectly fine for 10 years with basically no moderation. Ya there were trolls, but all they have are words, and that's the compromise you make for a free and open discussion.

It operated perfectly fine for 10 years

for about 9 years (until a year ago)

It still was fine then. Open discussion was my favorite part and many others as well.

It operated perfectly fine

Disagree. /r/Libertarian should be about promoting libertarianism. r/Libertarian hasn't done that.

r/libertarian should be a discussion about topics concerning things like government overreach, not a echo chamber. There are other sub reddits listed on the side-bar that are exclusively libertarians discussing those things. /r/Libertarian actually got to r/all many time with actual libertarian issuse, even if a decent amount of the comments weren't by libertarians, who cares? Now you get all libertarians and can circle jerk all together.

even if a decent amount of the comments weren't by libertarians, who cares?

I care. The reaction to this change in moderation policy has made it clear that r/Libertarian has spread rampant misinformation on what libertarianism is. Libertarianism is not a knee-jerk opposition to authority figures. Libertarianism is a right wring political philosophy based on private property rights. The vision of libertarianism spread by the old /r/Libertarian isn't something I want to see popularized. An "echo chamber" is exactly what's needed to correct this misconception.

An "echo chamber" is exactly what's needed to correct this misconception.

Are you genuinely retarded? Libertarianism needing an echo chamber is as laughable as anarchism needing secret mod discussion and harsh rules about what is socially acceptable.

Dude, honestly you're just a fucking idiot. Literally everything you said is wrong.

You don't know what libertarianism is. You can't learn political philosophy from memes.

I've been a member of the party since 2002. How about yourself?

You know that doesn't speak to your knowledge of libertarianism, right? The LP is great, but it does not offer a consistent vision of libertarianism. Libertarianism as defined by the likes of Gary Johnson and Bill Weld is exactly what I take issue with.

Thank you for the essay that has nothing to do with the question I asked you.

Implying you aren't both cowardly, censoring cunt

well tbf it is nazis censoring the left

Or you know, just normal ppl sick of their shit.

nazis and their ilk usually are pretty normal

Oh, so it's more of this nonsense then

are you actually retarded or something?

Username checks out

Except you know how left libertarianism is a thing, right?

Except you know, how left libertarianism isn't a thing but just communist propaganda, right?

libertarianism and sexually engaging young children.

This but as it is

/r/libertarian now joins the ranks of fascist subreddits like /r/politics, /r/askwomen, /r/latestagecapitalism, /r/me_irl,...

When you become what you hate to own the libs 😂😂😂

yeah. admins forced their hands by introducing the voting system.

that system only works if a large majority of participation in a sub comes from people who want the sub continue existing.

The voting system predates the subreddit entirely.

waaaahhhh admins REEEEEE

imagine being such a plebbitor

plebbitors are defenseless in the face of admin super powers.

admins forced their hands by introducing the voting system.

Which is why this is a thing now that the admins have put away the voting system, that was put in place after the mods telling yes to it by the way.

allegedly

Yes, I am sure it was only allegedly and not a pure naked alt right power grab. Sure.

yeah. admins forced their hands by introducing the voting system.

Didn't they remove it?

Libertarianism and pedophilia

Abusive moderators and claims of concern trolling.

chapstick

Begone vile tranny

Pinochet and Helicopters.

making this post without making fun of them for violating the NAP in the title

ohana means family

So it turns out 'coerced' is the least phonetic word in the english language

oh great a, concern trolling rule! the broadest rule that got most people banned from /r/t_d and will allow mods to ban people who aren't 'true libertarians', which means people who don't worship Trump unconditionally

/r/conspiracy loves that rule too!

'tis the nobelest of rules.

I still see a lot of posts on the front page with 300+ replies so its hardly committed suicide unless you are one of those people who will go "well, give it time, the sub will surely die soon" only for there to still be 300+ reply threads 3 months later and then you will surely say "well, give it time, the sub will surely die soon"

ltrly 5 hours ago dummy

It's dead in spirit, like how r/drama died when pinging was banned.

When radical centrism is more libertarian than libertarianism

😏Feeling smug😏

i feel disgusted instead

I said that! Actually it's true in this case. Not a single mod is more libertarian than me and I'm not even libertarian.

We even have a few pedophiles.

Gamers are like interns, they're just here to scrub toilets, get coffee, and get us a tax break.

Context for what's happened over the past 2 weeks.

I guess the free market decided Chapotards were smarter than Libertarians. It could have gone either way so congrats on getting BTFO by retards.

That's retarded. If I murder you and steal your stuff, that doesn't mean the free market decided I'm smarter because you didn't murder me first.

That is literally what it means you fucking retard

Nah don't be stupid. The sub won in the end though. New rules will keep all those filthy commies out.

It'll keep out anyone who doesnt worship the federal government and an authoritarian white ethnostate. How libertarian.

Well, except it doesn't. "Free market" doesn't preclude property or natural rights. Free market is not anarchy.

the people with candidates who think a car license is equivilant to needing a license for your toasters are now complaining that their mods are retarded.

tbh when aren't mods retarded tho

they do it for free

god, i wish it could get rid of mods.

You have to be a mod to do that

the only rules that subreddit needed was a strict ban on boomer memes

Once again radical centrism show it's radical superiority by having radical free speech, something that was too radical for libertarian.

Going to congratulate commies for succeeding at destroying r/libertarian tho.

Going to congratulate commies for succeeding at destroying r/libertarian tho.

When I've plowed enough bussy to become a mod, I will subpoena you for this.

>plowing and not getting plowed to become a mod.

Buddy you have visibly not understood how our mod system work.

Alas...

Then why can't I tell you to kill yourself

It's radical not extremist. :dab:

r/libertarian goes full pinoboo

When the top comment is TotesMessenger spam

I went on record saying that r/Libertarian is the only living political subreddit that doesn't have its head out its own ass. It just took one little Chapo shitposter to ruin it.

Yeah, and a whole bunch of "chapo-leaning but totally libertarians".

Left-libertarianism has been a thing longer than the pedo type of libertarianism

That's impossible because I'm the only true libertarian.

A politic sub going down the drain

News flash! The Reddit user is unable to get a girl friend

They also ban you for trolling in other subs. Don't forget that next time you consider making a joke in here.

If the admins point a gun at your head and tell you to walk across a tight rope, is it really "suicide" when you fall?

Ancoms/antifa/libsocs, whatever they self-identify as, are not libertarians.

this is your brain on amerilard politics

Utopia®™ only works until someone **disagrs**, then it's time to get out the Mc©®™Nukes®©™

(((This comment was removed due to a claim from McMegaCooperation)))

The irony that libertarianism can't be made to run a subreddit and yet we're expected to believe it can be made to run a state.

”well kept gardens die by pacifism”

We need radical centricism to protect us from online libertarian vanguardism

Did you actually read that article? It was nearly prophetic

Understand that libertarianism isn't just anarchy. People can set rules if they want to in a subreddit. If we don't want you brigading and upvoting non-libertarian left wing nonsense, so be it.

Then you have see stupid threads like this one of people complaining about how they've been banned and they "barely" have any posts in r/chapotraphouse. Then you check their profile and there's quite a few posts to r/chapotraphouse in the past few months. Dig a bit deeper and you find out that he's actually a mod for r/libertarianuncensored and the sub has a bunch of posts upvoted about AOC and socialist economic policies.

Sorry, you wore out your welcome. If I can't try having a discussion about libertarianism without someone talking about muh roads, open borders, and how socialism actually isn't that bad, then its not actually a sub for libertarian discussion. Its more of what r/politics should actually be.

If I can't try having a discussion about libertarianism without someone talking about muh roads, open borders, and how socialism actually isn't that bad, then its not actually a sub for libertarian discussion.

If there's no counterpoint or debate, then its just a bunch of dudes jerking each other off and bitching about taxes. What a fucking stupid sub.

Well, Libertarians are dumb as shit, what do you expect?

It’s funny how people want to come to the libertarian sub for discussion, but if you go to subs pertaining to their favored political ideology, you get banned for dissent. If I want to discuss libertarianism with other libertarians, that’s our business and not yours. Take your “open subs for thee, but not for me” nonsense and go screw.

Libertarian: everything is literal slavery except actual slavery, which wasn't really so bad for the blacks, tbqh...

Removed, what was the rule?

Half the mod team supports the murder of leftists and are Pinochet supporters

And your point is what exactly?

Serious posts be here captain.