Hahahahaha, you're in college and you still spend your time like this! This internet troll shit is for lonely 14 year olds, not adults.
The rest of your life is going to be lonely and boring if this is what you do with your time during what should be your most exciting years.
Before you know it, college will be over and you'll have no ability to make new friends because you don't have anything interesting to talk about or any way to meet new people. If you're not able to make friends now when it's literally the easiest it will ever be, there's no way you're going to swing it when you're even older.
Communal living in building blocks of 400 people max, with a strong community-wide bond over traditional / nationalistic / religious values
Rotating council of 7 temporarily elected community leaders, one of whom would be sent to the local municipal council (of closest 71 communes) as a community representative
Community dining halls, and discouragement of personal kitchens / food preparation. Same for sports/recreational facilities
Emphasis on humble living, with a strong bias against consumerism. The wall for anyone found to have taken part in planned obsolesence
Complete ban on the study of purely theoretical fields and social sciences for anyone under the age of 35
All public works and health costs covered by overseeing federal body, with extremely restricted authority
Why don't you just join a Christian or Buddhist monastery? Far simpler to do that than to worry about how you will basically force all the people's of the world into a single, unified way of life and social organization. That actually sounds nightmarish when you stop to think about it.
Why would i want to force everyone? You might be mistaking me for a tankie
People have different values, different ideals, different beliefs; getting global compliance to a single system is just unrealistic, if not ridiculous. Hell, even country-wide policy inplementation is often difficult
I mentioned above that such communities would need a common value / religion in order to be closely knit, and forcing someone to hold those would never work out. Those eager to take part should either hold such beliefs sincerely, or see holding them as an acceptable cost for being part of such a community
Individualism, while noble in concept, is wasted on most people in the west; you can see this reflected in the skyrocketing rates of isolation, depression, anxiety and lack of purpose (especially amongst the younger generation). Most people just dont have the agency required to thrive in presence of such freedom, and would live a better life under a form of collectivism
There is a great book called "Assignment in Utopia" that outlines life and living in Soviet Russia from 1926-1932 and it reads almost exactly like what you typed here. Good read if you ave the time and its free in pdf format.
I could try taking a look over the weekend, but till then im a bit tied up with work im afraid
And you have to understand that my "utopian formula" mirrors an ancient religious community from about 2000 ago, so it would make sense that some discussion would need to be had prior to any modern implementation
Any chance that youd be able to give me a few spoilers on the bad outcomes in the meantime?
ok here it goes. BTW the book was written by an American Communist who got stationed in Moscow during that time by the newspaper he was working for.
Communal living in building blocks of 400 people max, with a strong community-wide bond over traditional / nationalistic / religious values
This meant 2-4 families living in one flat/apartment. Usually they would mark a line down the house and one family got one side and the other got the other, with one shared bathroom and kitchen. If it was 4 families, each family got a room.
The best apartments were fought over constantly. Many people would turn in people living in this apartments to the blue hats (NKVD), hoping they would get to move into the space they left behind. They did it, because it worked.
Rotating council of 7 temporarily elected community leaders, one of whom would be sent to the local municipal council (of closest 71 communes) as a community representative
This occurred as well. But the positions turned corrupt immediately, selling out the best apartments to the highest bidders/government officals' families. They were pressured by the Blue hats to rat on their communities constantly and wound just being another arm of the Communist Party. Not their fault though, because if they didnt tow the party line or inform on their constituents, they would be arrested and sent off as well.
Community dining halls, and discouragement of personal kitchens / food preparation. Same for sports/recreational facilities
This kindof happend, as stated, 2-4 families would share a single kitchen. So you could argue it was "communal".
Emphasis on humble living, with a strong bias against consumerism. The wall for anyone found to have taken part in planned obsolesence
Humble living, yes. But not to serve some ideological construct. It was because if you looked even to be doing even the most mildest of better than your neighbor, then someone would rat you out.
You see, Lenin allowed open markets in Moscow to occur. People would go to them and buy stuff at strange prices (tiered based on your status) or barter for things. Stalin shut them down completely citing communist theory. But in actuality, he was trying to appropriate liquid assets he believed were in the populaces' control. Which was part of his 5 year plan; to have people donate all their money to the state. He believed if he shut down the markets, no one would have a place to spend their money (mostly German Franks at the time, since the rouble was worthless) and would donate it all. But not very many people did. So, Stalin ordered his Blue Hats to start shaking down people to find money people had hidden away. The NKVD began pressuring people to rat on their neighbors if they thought they had money stashed. The people would get picked up, tortured until they told them where their money was hidden, then send them away to the gulags for not donating.
So people had a huge incentive to look as humble as possible (this is all detailed in the book i suggested).
Complete ban on the study of purely theoretical fields and social sciences for anyone under the age of 35
This is covered in the book as well. But not so much a ban on theoretical fields. More a ban on fields/studies that went against the pathologies of the party. If what you were studying upheld communist theory, you were good to go. If you wanted to study the effects of a planned economy (and werent already declaring it a victory before beginning) then be prepared to be pulled into a black cab.
All public works and health costs covered by overseeing federal body, with extremely restricted authority
this is covered as well. A compare and contrast from 1932 Moscow hospital vs a 1932 NYC hospital in an emergency is detailed. Lets just say, yes, the Moscow one was free, but at a huge cost to the individual (particularly if you were not a privileged government official).
Im currently at work, so please forgive the brevity of this comment (also thanks for the link, i might skim over a few pages at lunch);
RE: 2-4 families per apartment, I said ~400 people per community because thats about the population youd be able to fit in a few suburban blocks / townhouses (with a central courtyard) which I personally think are better for making a closer community than apartment buildings. Land is plentiful, and city/urban living is not crucial in an age of diminishing need for labour.
RE: the hospitals, you can already see this in the contrast between Canada and the USA. Its not uncommon here to spend several hours in the emergency room at hospitals just to be seen, and months to see a specialist; as well, the quality of care has also been documented to be noticeably worse. Yet people still prefer our Canadian system. I feel like this makes an argument for the Moscow style of healthcare, given the will of the people.
What i believe to be different in my interpretation from the documented results in your book, is that its possible to implement my variant on smaller levels without reforming the entire country. Just scale up the structure that gated communities (just less racist pls.) have, or the board of directors structure that some condos have these days, and build up from there. It would allow for a gradual transition, one slow and small enough that those uncomfortable with it could share the country yet live elsewhere without much consequence
As an irrelevant aside, i spent the first 6 years of my life in one of those "government official apartments" that my family held onto following the fall of the union, with a whole two bedrooms. Whats sad is that the one-bedroom place im renting now is more spacious than it was, which just shows how bad the housing situation was in the union. Housing, when government funded, should always be at the forefront of any communism discussion for this reason i believe
Im Brazilian, I see Venezuelacels who fled to come live in Brazil’s Streets because it was actually better than staying there. Sorry for the Srspost but I do hope these people are kidding lol
"Do you know that the starving African kids are actually rich. They just can't find something to eat on the streets because they have so much food at home."
Yes. There's a story Paul Cockshott tells about him and a friend touring the Polish peoples republic, where they were astonished at not finding meat in the shops when they were out one day. But when they looked at meat consumption per capita, it was actually even higher than in the west!
There wasn't any meat in the shops, because people could afford to buy and eat it
This is the logical explanation, not the commies fudged the numbers
and talked a lot about the long-ass lines just to get any good meats.
He must have been lucky to see lines often, back then shops were almost always completely empty (except for a few dozen bottles of vinegar).
If you saw a line while walking you immediately went to stay in this line, you didn't even ask what is it that people stay for, because literally anything that was there was worth waiting for and never lasted more than a few hours.
This is your mind on progressive dogma. They think corporations will always be evil, even if they have nothing to gain from it. Walmart and Kroger donate massive amounts of food because it’s good for PR, and has the added benefit of being good for the world.
These damn capitalist pigs. Refusing to price their goods at market value and forcing us to dig through the trash to get anything to eat. Why won't those fuckers let us buy anything?
Also, in regards to bread lines, don’t people have to wait in long-ass fucking lines in grocery stores every time they buy something in capitalist countries?
Yes. There's a story Paul Cockshott tells about him and a friend touring the Polish peoples republic, where they were astonished at not finding meat in the shops when they were out one day. But when they looked at meat consumption per capita, it was actually even higher than in the west!
There wasn't any meat in the shops, because people could afford to buy and eat it.
66 comments
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1 SnapshillBot 2019-09-11
Hahahahaha, you're in college and you still spend your time like this! This internet troll shit is for lonely 14 year olds, not adults.
The rest of your life is going to be lonely and boring if this is what you do with your time during what should be your most exciting years.
Before you know it, college will be over and you'll have no ability to make new friends because you don't have anything interesting to talk about or any way to meet new people. If you're not able to make friends now when it's literally the easiest it will ever be, there's no way you're going to swing it when you're even older.
Snapshots:
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1 GeauxHouston22 2019-09-11
am I b7
1 Rocketteman 2019-09-11
Some incredible mental gymnastics in that thread.
1 skipbreed 2019-09-11
Starving with your whole family is actually good for you, you racist chud
1 ReddneckwithaD 2019-09-11
When you want to discourage food waste, the harshest way is usually the most effective
1 CommunistCreatine 2019-09-11
What about true communism?
1 ReddneckwithaD 2019-09-11
Communal living in building blocks of 400 people max, with a strong community-wide bond over traditional / nationalistic / religious values
Rotating council of 7 temporarily elected community leaders, one of whom would be sent to the local municipal council (of closest 71 communes) as a community representative
Community dining halls, and discouragement of personal kitchens / food preparation. Same for sports/recreational facilities
Emphasis on humble living, with a strong bias against consumerism. The wall for anyone found to have taken part in planned obsolesence
Complete ban on the study of purely theoretical fields and social sciences for anyone under the age of 35
All public works and health costs covered by overseeing federal body, with extremely restricted authority
1 CommunistCreatine 2019-09-11
But why? Are you for this?
1 RecallRethuglicans 2019-09-11
Why not? It’s the next logical step for humanity. It may be all we have if the Democrats can’t fix the climate by 2021
1 Ubertroon 2019-09-11
I'm pretty sure the next logical step for humanity has to survive competition with the previous society
1 ReddneckwithaD 2019-09-11
I personally am, but admittedly its at least in part due to religious reasons. Widespread implementation is definitely not feasible anytime soon
1 DeweaponizedAutism 2019-09-11
Why don't you just join a Christian or Buddhist monastery? Far simpler to do that than to worry about how you will basically force all the people's of the world into a single, unified way of life and social organization. That actually sounds nightmarish when you stop to think about it.
1 ReddneckwithaD 2019-09-11
Why would i want to force everyone? You might be mistaking me for a tankie
People have different values, different ideals, different beliefs; getting global compliance to a single system is just unrealistic, if not ridiculous. Hell, even country-wide policy inplementation is often difficult
I mentioned above that such communities would need a common value / religion in order to be closely knit, and forcing someone to hold those would never work out. Those eager to take part should either hold such beliefs sincerely, or see holding them as an acceptable cost for being part of such a community
Individualism, while noble in concept, is wasted on most people in the west; you can see this reflected in the skyrocketing rates of isolation, depression, anxiety and lack of purpose (especially amongst the younger generation). Most people just dont have the agency required to thrive in presence of such freedom, and would live a better life under a form of collectivism
1 Corporal-Hicks 2019-09-11
There is a great book called "Assignment in Utopia" that outlines life and living in Soviet Russia from 1926-1932 and it reads almost exactly like what you typed here. Good read if you ave the time and its free in pdf format.
1 ReddneckwithaD 2019-09-11
I could try taking a look over the weekend, but till then im a bit tied up with work im afraid
And you have to understand that my "utopian formula" mirrors an ancient religious community from about 2000 ago, so it would make sense that some discussion would need to be had prior to any modern implementation
1 Corporal-Hicks 2019-09-11
ok here it goes. BTW the book was written by an American Communist who got stationed in Moscow during that time by the newspaper he was working for.
This meant 2-4 families living in one flat/apartment. Usually they would mark a line down the house and one family got one side and the other got the other, with one shared bathroom and kitchen. If it was 4 families, each family got a room.
The best apartments were fought over constantly. Many people would turn in people living in this apartments to the blue hats (NKVD), hoping they would get to move into the space they left behind. They did it, because it worked.
This occurred as well. But the positions turned corrupt immediately, selling out the best apartments to the highest bidders/government officals' families. They were pressured by the Blue hats to rat on their communities constantly and wound just being another arm of the Communist Party. Not their fault though, because if they didnt tow the party line or inform on their constituents, they would be arrested and sent off as well.
This kindof happend, as stated, 2-4 families would share a single kitchen. So you could argue it was "communal".
Humble living, yes. But not to serve some ideological construct. It was because if you looked even to be doing even the most mildest of better than your neighbor, then someone would rat you out.
You see, Lenin allowed open markets in Moscow to occur. People would go to them and buy stuff at strange prices (tiered based on your status) or barter for things. Stalin shut them down completely citing communist theory. But in actuality, he was trying to appropriate liquid assets he believed were in the populaces' control. Which was part of his 5 year plan; to have people donate all their money to the state. He believed if he shut down the markets, no one would have a place to spend their money (mostly German Franks at the time, since the rouble was worthless) and would donate it all. But not very many people did. So, Stalin ordered his Blue Hats to start shaking down people to find money people had hidden away. The NKVD began pressuring people to rat on their neighbors if they thought they had money stashed. The people would get picked up, tortured until they told them where their money was hidden, then send them away to the gulags for not donating.
So people had a huge incentive to look as humble as possible (this is all detailed in the book i suggested).
This is covered in the book as well. But not so much a ban on theoretical fields. More a ban on fields/studies that went against the pathologies of the party. If what you were studying upheld communist theory, you were good to go. If you wanted to study the effects of a planned economy (and werent already declaring it a victory before beginning) then be prepared to be pulled into a black cab.
this is covered as well. A compare and contrast from 1932 Moscow hospital vs a 1932 NYC hospital in an emergency is detailed. Lets just say, yes, the Moscow one was free, but at a huge cost to the individual (particularly if you were not a privileged government official).
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.89424/page/n21
1 ReddneckwithaD 2019-09-11
Im currently at work, so please forgive the brevity of this comment (also thanks for the link, i might skim over a few pages at lunch);
RE: 2-4 families per apartment, I said ~400 people per community because thats about the population youd be able to fit in a few suburban blocks / townhouses (with a central courtyard) which I personally think are better for making a closer community than apartment buildings. Land is plentiful, and city/urban living is not crucial in an age of diminishing need for labour.
RE: the hospitals, you can already see this in the contrast between Canada and the USA. Its not uncommon here to spend several hours in the emergency room at hospitals just to be seen, and months to see a specialist; as well, the quality of care has also been documented to be noticeably worse. Yet people still prefer our Canadian system. I feel like this makes an argument for the Moscow style of healthcare, given the will of the people.
What i believe to be different in my interpretation from the documented results in your book, is that its possible to implement my variant on smaller levels without reforming the entire country. Just scale up the structure that gated communities (just less racist pls.) have, or the board of directors structure that some condos have these days, and build up from there. It would allow for a gradual transition, one slow and small enough that those uncomfortable with it could share the country yet live elsewhere without much consequence
As an irrelevant aside, i spent the first 6 years of my life in one of those "government official apartments" that my family held onto following the fall of the union, with a whole two bedrooms. Whats sad is that the one-bedroom place im renting now is more spacious than it was, which just shows how bad the housing situation was in the union. Housing, when government funded, should always be at the forefront of any communism discussion for this reason i believe
1 i_Chapo-d_my_pants 2019-09-11
starving with your family puts hair on your chest
and tombstones in your backyard
cause you can't afford a graveplot
1 gurthanix 2019-09-11
A graveplot is bourgeoisie decadence. In the post-historical utopia we will all eat our dead community members.
1 SideFumbling 2019-09-11
Struggling and starving under communism is the most noble thing there is, but also, nobody will starve under communism.
1 Minimum_T-Giraff 2019-09-11
Standing in the bread lines is good exercise.
1 lolcows63 2019-09-11
Yep if you go to the richest parts of the U.S.A you will find stores with barren shelves
1 forseti911 2019-09-11
Soviet Olympic team level of mental gymnastics
1 Fascisteen 2019-09-11
Im Brazilian, I see Venezuelacels who fled to come live in Brazil’s Streets because it was actually better than staying there. Sorry for the Srspost but I do hope these people are kidding lol
1 watermark1917 2019-09-11
And you will always be a us subject
1 Fortizen 2019-09-11
Based and Monroepilled
1 DasRoteOrgan 2019-09-11
"Do you know that the starving African kids are actually rich. They just can't find something to eat on the streets because they have so much food at home."
1 watermark1917 2019-09-11
Most of it gets thrown away as waste sitting in the store shelves so long because no one can afford it
1 Fortizen 2019-09-11
Which is why it is cheap, do you even supply and demand?
1 cragbar 2019-09-11
You don't need 5 different brands of toilet paper.
1 Chapo_Landlords 2019-09-11
Well sometimes I just wanna treat myself 💅
1 [deleted] 2019-09-11
[removed]
1 lolcows63 2019-09-11
This is the logical explanation, not the commies fudged the numbers
1 whenweriiide 2019-09-11
My parents lived in Communist Poland and talked a lot about the long-ass lines just to get any good meats.
As is obvious, that commenter is a fucking retard.
1 Platycel 2019-09-11
He must have been lucky to see lines often, back then shops were almost always completely empty (except for a few dozen bottles of vinegar).
If you saw a line while walking you immediately went to stay in this line, you didn't even ask what is it that people stay for, because literally anything that was there was worth waiting for and never lasted more than a few hours.
1 RecallRethuglicans 2019-09-11
So much better than the poor starving to death under capitalism and yet people don’t see it.
1 zergling_Lester 2019-09-11
*getting morbidly obese
1 RecallRethuglicans 2019-09-11
The lines mean people have food! Bernie explains it.
1 watermark1917 2019-09-11
Yes you got in lines to get high quality meat for practically nothing boo fucking hoo
1 Fortizen 2019-09-11
ftfy
1 whenweriiide 2019-09-11
I didn't, I live in burgerland 😎
1 Burnnoticelover 2019-09-11
I’ll give you a fucking cockshott.
1 [deleted] 2019-09-11
[removed]
1 [deleted] 2019-09-11
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1 [deleted] 2019-09-11
[removed]
1 Ubertroon 2019-09-11
THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS MALNORISHMENT IN A COMMUNIST SOCIETY!
1 Ingelri 2019-09-11
Never speak to us or our son ever again
1 CCAlkie 2019-09-11
Spoken like someone who has a middle school understanding of how businesses work. And I'm not even talking about profits.
1 nd2017 2019-09-11
This is your mind on progressive dogma. They think corporations will always be evil, even if they have nothing to gain from it. Walmart and Kroger donate massive amounts of food because it’s good for PR, and has the added benefit of being good for the world.
1 TheColdTurtle 2019-09-11
Uhhh sorry sweaty bread never gets moldy and lasts for decades. You can easily ship that loaf of bread off to south Africa to feed a child.
1 Pomodorodorodoro 2019-09-11
I just mail them a bunch of vouchers for half-price pizza.
1 lewds28 2019-09-11
The store shelves being empty is a good thing chud!
Commies are the lowest form of life
1 PvtMcNuggets 2019-09-11
To call them a form of life is an overstatement.
1 nd2017 2019-09-11
They’re basically just a virus.
1 Pomodorodorodoro 2019-09-11
These damn capitalist pigs. Refusing to price their goods at market value and forcing us to dig through the trash to get anything to eat. Why won't those fuckers let us buy anything?
1 Despite_being_13_pct 2019-09-11
that banner image is complete garbage
commies today have no sense of aesthetic or design
1 Ubertroon 2019-09-11
Excuse is they're doing it ironically. Actual reason is the lack of talent
1 VanillaReign 2019-09-11
How do people this stupid remember to breathe?
1 Fascisteen 2019-09-11
Hoping they are joking
1 Protista_of_Peace 2019-09-11
Of course, downvoted.
1 FrostyBlowmanSnowman 2019-09-11
Successful bakery owner is a fuckhead for not giving away free product, hot take.
1 Bussy_Galore 2019-09-11
[Painful naiveté intensifies]
1 watermark1917 2019-09-11
Soviets were better fed than Americans and much better fed than after communism fell
1 [deleted] 2019-09-11
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