His authority is pretty minimal and he lives in an entirely muslim neighborhood with a single tiny messy office. He's the leader of ~300 Million people and no one in the area cares in the slightest. Sort of feel bad for him. P based tho.
Well he also has authority over the diaspora churches, especially the US and greece mainly, so yeah him and moscow still are the two big boys. Its talked about a ton the problems we have in constantinople.
Dude theres been a 3 year debate in the church over adding 1 word to the liturgy. Unlike the pope 2.0 heathens we actually use the word of god as it was, not just change it bc its cool to change.
Also the word is “and space” in reference to travelers to refer to the fact that 65% of astronauts on the ISS are orthodox christians.
I mean to me it screams of a sort of otherworldlyness. Like yes this is silly and longwinded and seems to be doing nothing. But it's vitally important that we name everyone and your worldly objections don't apply since the laws of reality dont apply here. We are outside of time at the crucifixion and resurrection and incarnation all at once and you better listen and pray for mercy. But at the same time it's not so serious that it's a parody of itself, if that makes sense? I'm not sure how to articulate the aesthetic properly, but it's there.
Its almost medieval with the emperor’s carrying a hundred titles, so it conveys the importance of these people to the faith while also the importance of the church in the connection to god. Its all feels ancient and almost out of time, like a holy ritual that you could walk into 500 years ago and hear the same thing because that is what is holy, and what is the true Divine Liturgy of the lord doesnt change. Interpretation of the bible, of dogma might change, but the way and methods of preparing the Communion with the Lord and venerating his holy name and celebrating the greatest act of love ever wont change, because gods love for us doesnt change.
Unironically this is what pisses me off about people who do shit like “the good place” or those fan fics about god and like being moody or shit because that’s like an insanely basic view of godliness, like ancient greek style basic, but adapted to monotheism. Youre taking the perfect lord, who sent his only son and a part of his perfect essence to live among us, and die a terrible, slow human death, so that everyone could not suffer in the darkness away from god, but live in the light of his perfect existence for all of eternity. Perfection, God himself, loved humanity so much, that he suffered and died one of the worst torture and deaths a man could suffer, to offer you the chance of life everlasting, and you wanna make a fanfic about god accidentally saving a sinner? Or about god being depressed or being bipolar or whatever twitter is on about and take perfection itself and drag it down to your twitter knuckle dragging transbian socialist lul so depressed n heckin cute i sell nudes you creep level.
Fuck i hate twitter. And most of reddit. Id rather die to a jihadist than talk to a bluecheck, because at least jihadis believe in something enough to put their life behind it, and commit to it, instead of a waste of precious square feet.
I think we are literally reverting back to paganism. Most of the women and gays already unironically believe in astrology. With nihilism comes the principalities of this earth taking power back from the church. Christianity uniquely turned the roman order on its head and without it we are doomed to regress. Our whole culture is built on roman scaffolding anyways, this shouldn't be surprising. Even the monotheists aren't really monotheists. The protestant conception of God is like a guy with superpowers that gives money to you if you obey his arbitrary rules. Telling them that Love is the fundamental structure of reality just doesn't compute. It's also inherently incompatible with materialism which everyone seems to have uncritically defaulted to despite the numerous inconsistencies in the ideology. My priest told me we are probably living in the end times and that I should just accept it. I should talk to him more. I feel like an alien around most people because of this sentiment.
I don’t believe we live in the end times, partially because no man can no the day or the hour, but id definitely say an age of apostasy, or iconoclasty. Its very dangerous to think in terms of the end times, because robs life of its meaning and purpose in many ways. If the end is happening, so be it, but one should always be focused on his faith, family, and community. Betterment of those three and living a godly life and a person has done his or her job on the earth and spent their time well. Part of why hedonistic activity is condemned is because it feeds the base pleasure and instincts, to the detriment of your humanity and the development of greater, constructive pleasures. Its much easier to smoke weed and eat mcdonalds and feel great for a while than build a house, or run for office, but at the end of the day the smoker feels regret and depressed (no matter what theyll bluster at you) having accomplished nothing and feeling rightfully worthless, while the other feels pride, accomplishment and true joy.
I think he meant it more in terms of societal collapse, and that the second coming may be near. He didn't actually say he thinks it's coming soon. It was more like I went on a dark rant about society venting all my deeply held frustrations. Then he proceeded to btfo me with an even darker one of his own. I told him it sounded like the end times and he kind of gave me this look 😬. I guess a better way to phrase it is that the church exists in enemy territory, as it always originally did. I'm partial to the quote by kafka that the second coming would happen the day after the end of the world. I've pondered that a lot. It's more of a psychological truth than a metaphysical one. Redemption only comes after an exile in the desert. I think society is going through something like that now.
Anywho, you're right. I mean that was nietzsches critique of christianity. People live for heaven and thus don't enjoy life here. I think that was more of a western issue and that he sort of missed the point. But the opposite of that attitude is a huge problem. People live for absolutely nothing and laugh if you try to imply there's any meaning to things. They think they're beyond good and evil but they're just slaves to groupthink and sin. It depresses the shit out of me and I wish I could save them all. I'm a worse sinner than them though and can't even save myself without divine grace. That's life I guess.
I'll bite: While God's Love for us is why we're still around at all, how does that apply to human social interactions from cavemen to now, which factually is largely unaffected by love?
Could you clarify this question? Are you asking about the structure of reality thing?
I agree that human interaction is largely horrible. A good book on this is the elephant in the brain, which says that everyone is lying about all their motivations to themselves about literally everything. I don't really think humans are capable of love without some kind of supernatural intervention. Human love is conditional and highly limited. It's conflated with emotions and lust. The christian conception of love is Jesus on the cross. It's an act no human is morally capable of on their own.
The Christian claim is that God is that love. Christ specifically is the logos, which is something like the fundamental order of things or the coherence of reality. He exists eternally outside of time. It's something like the difference between a cluster of atoms and saying that the cluster is a cow or a tree or something. (This corresponds symbolically to Adam naming the animals.) We percieve the world and act in it as ordered. There's some kind of coherence to the order. That coherence is Christ, and Christ is also Love.
Now I get that this doesn't make a ton of sense. It's sort of nonsensical gibberish if you try to intellectualize it to much. It's easier to understand in terms of symbolism or something. But it's also literally true. (And the line between symbolism and reality is erased in Christian thought. The paradox of a God man represents this. The word becomes flesh, myth becomes reality, etc.)
But it's not the same as thinking that the world is a nice place. The Christian claim is that we live in a fallen world ruled by satan. (Archons and demons to be precise.) People are ruled by sin. Christianity is the darkest worldview I've encountered, if you take away the stuff about Christ. Christ renders all meaning outside of him absurd. A proper Christian worldview collapses into nihilism without grace. And it's not a happy skateboard nihilism. It's a "I'm literally in hell right now" sort of thing. You have to keep in mind that the whole religion is an apocalyptic cult on top of a religion of human sacrifice. Jesus is quite literally acting as a human sacrifice, at least symbolically. (Blood of the lamb, binding of issac, death of the first born, etc.) The central symbol is a mutilated body on a torture device. They adoped this ironically, to show that the horribleness of the world has no power over them anymore. But it still means the world is horrible. God comes down to earth to save everyone and humanity betrays and tortures him to death. That's the christian view of human relations without God.
How you reconcile all of this gets you into questions about the problem of evil, which requires an even longerpost and doesn't have too many super satisfying answers. I think it's best lived and not thought about.
I get and agree with all of that. So your answer is that as God determines the order of the universe, God's love is what maintains that order, and no more in terms of that statement?
Sort of? I don't agree with the exact wording but roughly speaking yes.
I think God is deeper than just maintaining the universe. God isn't a being in or outside of the universe. I think God is being. He isn't a thing that maintains the universe. He is thingness. If that makes any sense. And thingness also happens to be love.
That's a more precise way of saying it, but also closer to gibberish.
Yeah pretty much. Most identifying christians dont understand theology, or are prots with weird theology. That leads to a sort of: monopolytheism. Where they treat God as just another thing. A very powerful thing that created every other thing. But still just a thing. Lovecraft taps into something deeper than that. This theology goes deeper still. So yeah you're right.
God loves drama. Look at human history. The entire story of our species has been one petty squabble after another with the occasional escalation into a civilization-destroying conflict.
57 comments
6 BussyShillBot 2020-02-27
Ｅａｔ ｓｈｉｔ
Outlines:
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4 Bijzettafeltje 2020-02-27
Unbased and blasphemous bussy.
2 Ferocetis 2020-02-27
Not cool.
1 Redactor0 2020-02-27
Martin Luther needed 95 theses but our bot can sum it up in 2 words.
1 Chapose 2020-02-27
Hope the pope is an approvedcel
2 McFluff_TheCrimeCat 2020-02-27
No.
1 pepperouchau 2020-02-27
Ok prot
2 affectionateotter1 2020-02-27
I’m giving up cheese.
2 Alicesnakebae 2020-02-27
Imagine listening to a pedo defender
1 pepperouchau 2020-02-27
Ok prot
1 wow___justwow 2020-02-27
and anime enthusiast
Oops, was I redundant?
1 theworstever 2020-02-27
The only real Pope is the Orthodox Coptic Pope of Alexandria 😤
1 Ferocetis 2020-02-27
That would be patriarch of eastern orthodox church.
1 Sajnos 2020-02-27
In you're opinion which one has better super powers?
1 MoistLanguage 2020-02-27
Imagine not recognizing the authority of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople
1 greatjasoni 2020-02-27
His authority is pretty minimal and he lives in an entirely muslim neighborhood with a single tiny messy office. He's the leader of ~300 Million people and no one in the area cares in the slightest. Sort of feel bad for him. P based tho.
https://youtu.be/K6ZXxgjKk2o
1 Osterion 2020-02-27
😭
1 LaptopEnforcer 2020-02-27
Well he also has authority over the diaspora churches, especially the US and greece mainly, so yeah him and moscow still are the two big boys. Its talked about a ton the problems we have in constantinople.
1 greatjasoni 2020-02-27
Oh for sure, but he can't just sit on a chair and invent dogma the way the Pope can.
2 LaptopEnforcer 2020-02-27
Dude theres been a 3 year debate in the church over adding 1 word to the liturgy. Unlike the pope 2.0 heathens we actually use the word of god as it was, not just change it bc its cool to change.
Also the word is “and space” in reference to travelers to refer to the fact that 65% of astronauts on the ISS are orthodox christians.
1 greatjasoni 2020-02-27
That's a great statistic.
I love the long winded lists of names and places and titles just tacked on throughout the liturgy. It's unironically beautiful.
2 LaptopEnforcer 2020-02-27
Yeah even in the prayer books they ... those because its so long😂 the combination of chanting and prayer is very much my favorite of any
2 greatjasoni 2020-02-27
I mean to me it screams of a sort of otherworldlyness. Like yes this is silly and longwinded and seems to be doing nothing. But it's vitally important that we name everyone and your worldly objections don't apply since the laws of reality dont apply here. We are outside of time at the crucifixion and resurrection and incarnation all at once and you better listen and pray for mercy. But at the same time it's not so serious that it's a parody of itself, if that makes sense? I'm not sure how to articulate the aesthetic properly, but it's there.
1 LaptopEnforcer 2020-02-27
Its almost medieval with the emperor’s carrying a hundred titles, so it conveys the importance of these people to the faith while also the importance of the church in the connection to god. Its all feels ancient and almost out of time, like a holy ritual that you could walk into 500 years ago and hear the same thing because that is what is holy, and what is the true Divine Liturgy of the lord doesnt change. Interpretation of the bible, of dogma might change, but the way and methods of preparing the Communion with the Lord and venerating his holy name and celebrating the greatest act of love ever wont change, because gods love for us doesnt change.
Unironically this is what pisses me off about people who do shit like “the good place” or those fan fics about god and like being moody or shit because that’s like an insanely basic view of godliness, like ancient greek style basic, but adapted to monotheism. Youre taking the perfect lord, who sent his only son and a part of his perfect essence to live among us, and die a terrible, slow human death, so that everyone could not suffer in the darkness away from god, but live in the light of his perfect existence for all of eternity. Perfection, God himself, loved humanity so much, that he suffered and died one of the worst torture and deaths a man could suffer, to offer you the chance of life everlasting, and you wanna make a fanfic about god accidentally saving a sinner? Or about god being depressed or being bipolar or whatever twitter is on about and take perfection itself and drag it down to your twitter knuckle dragging transbian socialist lul so depressed n heckin cute i sell nudes you creep level.
Fuck i hate twitter. And most of reddit. Id rather die to a jihadist than talk to a bluecheck, because at least jihadis believe in something enough to put their life behind it, and commit to it, instead of a waste of precious square feet.
2 LongPostBot 2020-02-27
All them words won't bring your pa back.
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2 LaptopEnforcer 2020-02-27
Fuck i finally popped longpost bot. 3 years in this allah blessed hellhole and it took theology to do it
1 Redactor0 2020-02-27
The first time is the best.
1 greatjasoni 2020-02-27
Based af.
I think we are literally reverting back to paganism. Most of the women and gays already unironically believe in astrology. With nihilism comes the principalities of this earth taking power back from the church. Christianity uniquely turned the roman order on its head and without it we are doomed to regress. Our whole culture is built on roman scaffolding anyways, this shouldn't be surprising. Even the monotheists aren't really monotheists. The protestant conception of God is like a guy with superpowers that gives money to you if you obey his arbitrary rules. Telling them that Love is the fundamental structure of reality just doesn't compute. It's also inherently incompatible with materialism which everyone seems to have uncritically defaulted to despite the numerous inconsistencies in the ideology. My priest told me we are probably living in the end times and that I should just accept it. I should talk to him more. I feel like an alien around most people because of this sentiment.
1 LaptopEnforcer 2020-02-27
I don’t believe we live in the end times, partially because no man can no the day or the hour, but id definitely say an age of apostasy, or iconoclasty. Its very dangerous to think in terms of the end times, because robs life of its meaning and purpose in many ways. If the end is happening, so be it, but one should always be focused on his faith, family, and community. Betterment of those three and living a godly life and a person has done his or her job on the earth and spent their time well. Part of why hedonistic activity is condemned is because it feeds the base pleasure and instincts, to the detriment of your humanity and the development of greater, constructive pleasures. Its much easier to smoke weed and eat mcdonalds and feel great for a while than build a house, or run for office, but at the end of the day the smoker feels regret and depressed (no matter what theyll bluster at you) having accomplished nothing and feeling rightfully worthless, while the other feels pride, accomplishment and true joy.
Also astrology bullshit boggles my mind
1 greatjasoni 2020-02-27
I think he meant it more in terms of societal collapse, and that the second coming may be near. He didn't actually say he thinks it's coming soon. It was more like I went on a dark rant about society venting all my deeply held frustrations. Then he proceeded to btfo me with an even darker one of his own. I told him it sounded like the end times and he kind of gave me this look 😬. I guess a better way to phrase it is that the church exists in enemy territory, as it always originally did. I'm partial to the quote by kafka that the second coming would happen the day after the end of the world. I've pondered that a lot. It's more of a psychological truth than a metaphysical one. Redemption only comes after an exile in the desert. I think society is going through something like that now.
Anywho, you're right. I mean that was nietzsches critique of christianity. People live for heaven and thus don't enjoy life here. I think that was more of a western issue and that he sort of missed the point. But the opposite of that attitude is a huge problem. People live for absolutely nothing and laugh if you try to imply there's any meaning to things. They think they're beyond good and evil but they're just slaves to groupthink and sin. It depresses the shit out of me and I wish I could save them all. I'm a worse sinner than them though and can't even save myself without divine grace. That's life I guess.
1 Shitposting_Skeleton 2020-02-27
I'll bite: While God's Love for us is why we're still around at all, how does that apply to human social interactions from cavemen to now, which factually is largely unaffected by love?
1 greatjasoni 2020-02-27
Could you clarify this question? Are you asking about the structure of reality thing?
I agree that human interaction is largely horrible. A good book on this is the elephant in the brain, which says that everyone is lying about all their motivations to themselves about literally everything. I don't really think humans are capable of love without some kind of supernatural intervention. Human love is conditional and highly limited. It's conflated with emotions and lust. The christian conception of love is Jesus on the cross. It's an act no human is morally capable of on their own.
The Christian claim is that God is that love. Christ specifically is the logos, which is something like the fundamental order of things or the coherence of reality. He exists eternally outside of time. It's something like the difference between a cluster of atoms and saying that the cluster is a cow or a tree or something. (This corresponds symbolically to Adam naming the animals.) We percieve the world and act in it as ordered. There's some kind of coherence to the order. That coherence is Christ, and Christ is also Love.
Now I get that this doesn't make a ton of sense. It's sort of nonsensical gibberish if you try to intellectualize it to much. It's easier to understand in terms of symbolism or something. But it's also literally true. (And the line between symbolism and reality is erased in Christian thought. The paradox of a God man represents this. The word becomes flesh, myth becomes reality, etc.)
But it's not the same as thinking that the world is a nice place. The Christian claim is that we live in a fallen world ruled by satan. (Archons and demons to be precise.) People are ruled by sin. Christianity is the darkest worldview I've encountered, if you take away the stuff about Christ. Christ renders all meaning outside of him absurd. A proper Christian worldview collapses into nihilism without grace. And it's not a happy skateboard nihilism. It's a "I'm literally in hell right now" sort of thing. You have to keep in mind that the whole religion is an apocalyptic cult on top of a religion of human sacrifice. Jesus is quite literally acting as a human sacrifice, at least symbolically. (Blood of the lamb, binding of issac, death of the first born, etc.) The central symbol is a mutilated body on a torture device. They adoped this ironically, to show that the horribleness of the world has no power over them anymore. But it still means the world is horrible. God comes down to earth to save everyone and humanity betrays and tortures him to death. That's the christian view of human relations without God.
How you reconcile all of this gets you into questions about the problem of evil, which requires an even longerpost and doesn't have too many super satisfying answers. I think it's best lived and not thought about.
2 LongPostBot 2020-02-27
I've known more coherent downies.
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1 greatjasoni 2020-02-27
A good name for a dog is syndrome. That way when he's bad you can yell: "Down Syndrome!"
1 Shitposting_Skeleton 2020-02-27
I get and agree with all of that. So your answer is that as God determines the order of the universe, God's love is what maintains that order, and no more in terms of that statement?
1 greatjasoni 2020-02-27
Sort of? I don't agree with the exact wording but roughly speaking yes.
I think God is deeper than just maintaining the universe. God isn't a being in or outside of the universe. I think God is being. He isn't a thing that maintains the universe. He is thingness. If that makes any sense. And thingness also happens to be love.
That's a more precise way of saying it, but also closer to gibberish.
1 Shitposting_Skeleton 2020-02-27
So you're saying that Lovecraft actually had a closer view of what God is compared to most identifying Christians today.
1 greatjasoni 2020-02-27
Yeah pretty much. Most identifying christians dont understand theology, or are prots with weird theology. That leads to a sort of: monopolytheism. Where they treat God as just another thing. A very powerful thing that created every other thing. But still just a thing. Lovecraft taps into something deeper than that. This theology goes deeper still. So yeah you're right.
1 jackcaboose 2020-02-27
that's two words idiot lmao 😂
1 LaptopEnforcer 2020-02-27
The and was already there. Do you not have the Divine Liturgy of St. John Crystosom memorized?
1 QuadNarca 2020-02-27
The Syriac Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch and All the East is the only one who matters.
1 jaredschaffer27 2020-02-27
Provoking and reveling in the idiocy of people who take things too seriously is not only a human right, but also a moral obligation.
2 TrailerParkRide 2020-02-27
God loves drama. Look at human history. The entire story of our species has been one petty squabble after another with the occasional escalation into a civilization-destroying conflict.
1 Godsdj 2020-02-27
Even the redemption story is dramatic. uwu
1 aduketsavar 2020-02-27
If God didn't want us to be jerks why did he give us both the internet AND the retards in the first place??
1 lolcows65 2020-02-27
lets not forget the Autists
1 Godsdj 2020-02-27
We thank thee father for thine holy autists
1 [deleted] 2020-02-27
[removed]
1 HerosEnd 2020-02-27
sure pay me
1 Coonass_alt 2020-02-27
Ffs he’s gone too far. Bring back ratzinger.
1 WholesomeDrama 2020-02-27
im always really nice online so thats not a problem for me 😇
1 baatezuu 2020-02-27
The Pope has batsoup virus
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2020/02/pope-sick-a-2nd-day-with-apparent-cold-cancels-audiences/
1 [deleted] 2020-02-27
[removed]
1 fbcc1233 2020-02-27
Lmao is this the same guy who kissed the feet of immigrants. This guy brings shame to cucktianity.
1 BINGO_U_BETTER_B18 2020-02-27
It would cost $11,463,900 to give everyone an 80 day ban
The pope can afford this easily
0 SnapshillBot 2020-02-27
You're not shit next to me. My genes are just light years superior to yours and I don't even need to look at you.
Snapshots:
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