The only time I've ever given a shit about the nuances of f*male anatomy is when I was doing a hard guro/vore RP where I needed to remember how to spell the parts of her reproductive system that my character was eating.
That could make it worse for the accused. A savy prosecutor could argue bias based on the previous interactions between them and the black dude, since they didn't actually see a crime occur.
That would probably be the defense that I would use but it comes with problems. If they suspected that the jogger had a gun, why didn't they wait for police instead of escalating the situation? The defense will have to try and argue that the shooter suspected the jogger was an imminent danger based on suspicion of having a firearm. It's a risky defense. I think this case is going to come down to how good the lawyers are and if the jury believes this was a valid citizen's arrest attempt, despite contrary established case law.
The guy seems to be highly active in the community, but I should note that there were two 911 calls about this guy going through the neighborhood (both calls said this) robbing (first caller) a place, which tells me that the white guys weren't there to shoot the black guy, rather if black guy was packing heat then the white guys could defend himself.
0:15 jogger is seen casually walking into the unfinished building.
1:00 you see one of the people that probably called the cops walk outside and see the jogger in the house.
1:15 jogger sprints out of the building.
At 1:50 you can see the McMicheals get into the truck since they're living so close enough to the property that they can be seen by the same exact security cam footage angle.
This is so painfully cut and dry. Combined with the video of the jogger making the first swing, the wound on the hand, and you have all the makings for yet another reddit moment.
Is it known whether the accused knew about the calls? And if so, did the calls include a description of the suspect? I expect that would help their defense on the citizen's arrest grounds.
Why did they get their guns and leave the house to confront him? You make it sound like it's entirely reasonable to just grab your gun when leaving the house to confront someone in the middle of the night. Here's an idea: call the police, instead, and let them deal with it. They have legal and medical support, they are uniformed, and it's a construction site, not someone's residence.
So let's say the son moves in front of the black dude and says "Hey stop! We want to talk!" And the black dude grabs the shotgun.
The worst thing these guys did to cause this dude to attack them was get in front of him.
Have you ever been around people with guns? This black guy somehow got close enough to these two guys (who were already suspicious of him) to grab one of their shotguns without alarming them? Maintaining distance is one of the first things a retired officer would know to do.
Two random white guys in civilian clothes with shotguns approaching a black guy in the middle of the night in Georgia is a really fucking stupid way to handle the situation. Racist or not, what they did was criminally negligent manslaughter, at best. The ambiguity of the situation does not negate the fact that those two took a man's life with highly questionable justification.
The retired officer wasn't the one who had the gun grabbed. That was his son.
Besides that they were looking to stop him, not run away from him, so your cop example still doesn't work.
Also
Why did they get their guns and leave the house to confront him? You make it sound like it's entirely reasonable to just grab your gun when leaving the house to confront someone in the middle of the night.
It was in the middle of the day. Did you not watch the video?
Besides that they were looking to stop him, not run away from him, so your cop example still doesn't work.
...what? Why would I be saying they were looking to run away? You keep distance between yourself and someone you suspect of being potentially aggressive. I'm talking 5 or 6 feet. Anyone who isn't a complete idiot would do this while holding a firearm. Not only that, but only people fucked up on drugs/alcohol would try to get close to someone wielding a shotgun, let alone attempt to grab it.
So let's say the son moves in front of the black dude and says "Hey stop! We want to talk!" And the black dude grabs the shotgun.
It's like a scene out of some shitty movie.
It was in the middle of the day. Did you not watch the video?
No. I read about it. I don't feel like watching that shit right now. The fact that it was the middle of the day makes it all even more stupid.
If you're trying to stop someone BUT you aren't going to just point a gun at them without a good reason, all you can do is try to get in front of them.
The black dude is running and then runs right at the son, swinging for his head, while grabbing the shotgun.
This whole time I thought you were talking about what might've happened at the construction site, but you're actually talking about the video where they kill him. He's been chased down by armed civilians in trucks. He's in full panic mode. If you think anyone is going to act calm in such a situation then you need to stop being so extremely online.
If you watch the security can footage, he was in someone's house, someone else called the police, he ran off, and then these two guys who were neighbours went after him trying to get him to stop running.
What does the jogger do? Attack the guy with the shotgun. Brilliant.
these two guys who were neighbours went after him trying to get him to stop running
Rofl, look at that slanted summarization. They armed themselves with shotguns, got in their trucks, and drove this guy down.
K you definitely did not watch the video because they we in front of him, son got out on the left side of the truck, the black guy ran around the right side of the truck, then turned left and started swing at the guy on the left.
What does the thief jogger do? Attack the guy with the shotgun.
Looks like you left out some details. They chase him down in their trucks, he flees, and they corner him. Then he panics and charges one of them.
Dude. The guy ran out while someone was doing a 911 call and the two guys were neighbours who hopped in their truck and drove in front of him then got out.
Because just hopping in a car with shotguns to chase down a suspected trespasser is something normal people do. Go look up what criminally negligent manslaughter is.
They were legally open carrying and they never pointed the gun at him until he attacked the son and grabbed his shotgun. It even took the dad (the one who killed him) a few seconds to realize that he needed to point his gun at the guy.
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Manslaughter and reckless use of a firearm, sounds about right. Also depends on if the prosecutor can nail "intent to shoot" on them against the power of his ex-cop status.
I don't care about racism, leftoids, rightoids, or the guns in america, but once someone is killed a full accounting has to be given, and not convincing stories should land people in prison. You want a gun? Fine... don't go around like a knobhead itching for a chance to pull the trigger. These idiots created a situation that they were not prepared to deal with, they were in larger numbers, and yet an unarmed person was killed. Get rekt. Burglary is not reason enough for ending a human life, let alone being only suspicious of it. On top of it, the person was running away.
If two guys with shotguns pull up and ask you to stop, do you:
a) run around them
b) stop
c) attack one of the men, grabbing the shotgun
If you look at Arbery's past, you'll see several bad decisions. Additionally, his brother is in prison so it's not like the family is unfamiliar with bad choices.
The person brandishing the gun is still accountable for what their use of a gun leads a situation to escalate to. Look, I have no sympathy for the choices made by the guy who was killed, but if you have a gun and you want to coerce people into submission, you need to know what you are doing. This guys didn't.
There was no need for the guy to be killed. The other one could have jumped and come to help. There were plenty of other options. You don't walk to people who are not imminent threat and through your use of a gun create make the person feel threatened creating an imminent threat, and then when the person dies you say: oops.
I mean, you can do, but if you do, you deserve to be sent to a jury, for them to decide if that was negligence, murder, or just self defence,
The person brandishing the gun is still accountable for what their use of a gun leads a situation to escalate to
I suggest you watch the video again. The son (left side of the video) was pointing the weapon down, and to the side as he should have been.
The black guy was on the left side, then ran around the right side of the truck.
At this point, NO ONE was pointing a gun at him and he was able to keep running if he had wanted.
But the black guy runs around the front of the truck, attacking the son who had his shotgun, again, not pointed at the guy, which is what made it so easy for the black guy to keep the gun pointed away.
It takes the dad a few seconds to realize what is happening, and he quickly grabs his gun and aims it at the guy who is attacking his son!
Either you didn't watch the video, or you are incapable of following what is happening.
By your last sentence I can see you are already taking this personally, and pivoting this discussion to attack me. I don't know why all the idiots on reddit get so emotional with this stupid crap and can't discuss things normally. I saw the video as everyone has and the video is unclear. We might learn what actually happened now that these things are being investigated. I'm done with this r*t*rded discussion. What will matter is what is gonna decided in a court of law. I fucking hate the internet.
54 comments
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1 SnapshillBot 2020-05-09
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1 lyamc 2020-05-09
My comment here gives the relevant sources
1 Quietus42 2020-05-09
That could make it worse for the accused. A savy prosecutor could argue bias based on the previous interactions between them and the black dude, since they didn't actually see a crime occur.
1 lyamc 2020-05-09
(thanks for the upvotes)
Just to note, ex-cop thought that black dude might be conceal carrying due to 3 things:
1) Experience on the force would have trained him to look for that. (The way his hands are in his pocket)
2) Knowing the dude previously bright a handgun to school.
3) Knowing that there was someone who had been trespassing multiple times (usually people steal stuff)
With that information, he decided to arm himself and his son just in case they get attacked when talking to him.
So let's say the son moves in front of the black dude and says "Hey stop! We want to talk!" And the black dude grabs the shotgun.
That this point, both his son and the black dude are in danger.
The worst thing these guys did to cause this dude to attack them was get in front of him.
I'm suggesting that the black dude went after him because he makes bad choices.
1 Quietus42 2020-05-09
That would probably be the defense that I would use but it comes with problems. If they suspected that the jogger had a gun, why didn't they wait for police instead of escalating the situation? The defense will have to try and argue that the shooter suspected the jogger was an imminent danger based on suspicion of having a firearm. It's a risky defense. I think this case is going to come down to how good the lawyers are and if the jury believes this was a valid citizen's arrest attempt, despite contrary established case law.
1 lyamc 2020-05-09
The guy seems to be highly active in the community, but I should note that there were two 911 calls about this guy going through the neighborhood (both calls said this) robbing (first caller) a place, which tells me that the white guys weren't there to shoot the black guy, rather if black guy was packing heat then the white guys could defend himself.
Edited for accuracy
2 CharlesBukakeski 2020-05-09
https://www.ajc.com/news/surveillance-video/itEEj5ftMXkbkKeXrCFBTK/
If you haven't seen the security footage.
From just one camera you can see:
0:15 jogger is seen casually walking into the unfinished building.
1:00 you see one of the people that probably called the cops walk outside and see the jogger in the house.
1:15 jogger sprints out of the building.
At 1:50 you can see the McMicheals get into the truck since they're living so close enough to the property that they can be seen by the same exact security cam footage angle.
This is so painfully cut and dry. Combined with the video of the jogger making the first swing, the wound on the hand, and you have all the makings for yet another reddit moment.
1 lyamc 2020-05-09
We did it reddit!
1 colormebadorange 2020-05-09
Joggers gonna jog
1 Quietus42 2020-05-09
Is it known whether the accused knew about the calls? And if so, did the calls include a description of the suspect? I expect that would help their defense on the citizen's arrest grounds.
1 lyamc 2020-05-09
They did and since the guy had been through the neighborhood a few times they would know who that is
1 Quietus42 2020-05-09
I haven't read that anywhere yet
1 lyamc 2020-05-09
There was a guy in the middle of a call to 911 when the jogger went by and he was yelling at him to stop.
That's why the two guys jumped in the truck. They also were aware of the random person who kept trespassing.
0 UpvoteIfYouDare 2020-05-09
Why did they get their guns and leave the house to confront him? You make it sound like it's entirely reasonable to just grab your gun when leaving the house to confront someone in the middle of the night. Here's an idea: call the police, instead, and let them deal with it. They have legal and medical support, they are uniformed, and it's a construction site, not someone's residence.
Have you ever been around people with guns? This black guy somehow got close enough to these two guys (who were already suspicious of him) to grab one of their shotguns without alarming them? Maintaining distance is one of the first things a retired officer would know to do.
Two random white guys in civilian clothes with shotguns approaching a black guy in the middle of the night in Georgia is a really fucking stupid way to handle the situation. Racist or not, what they did was criminally negligent manslaughter, at best. The ambiguity of the situation does not negate the fact that those two took a man's life with highly questionable justification.
3 lyamc 2020-05-09
The retired officer wasn't the one who had the gun grabbed. That was his son.
Besides that they were looking to stop him, not run away from him, so your cop example still doesn't work.
Also
It was in the middle of the day. Did you not watch the video?
1 UpvoteIfYouDare 2020-05-09
...what? Why would I be saying they were looking to run away? You keep distance between yourself and someone you suspect of being potentially aggressive. I'm talking 5 or 6 feet. Anyone who isn't a complete idiot would do this while holding a firearm. Not only that, but only people fucked up on drugs/alcohol would try to get close to someone wielding a shotgun, let alone attempt to grab it.
It's like a scene out of some shitty movie.
No. I read about it. I don't feel like watching that shit right now. The fact that it was the middle of the day makes it all even more stupid.
1 lyamc 2020-05-09
If you're trying to stop someone BUT you aren't going to just point a gun at them without a good reason, all you can do is try to get in front of them.
The black dude is running and then runs right at the son, swinging for his head, while grabbing the shotgun.
Black dude makes bad choices is what I'm saying.
1 UpvoteIfYouDare 2020-05-09
This whole time I thought you were talking about what might've happened at the construction site, but you're actually talking about the video where they kill him. He's been chased down by armed civilians in trucks. He's in full panic mode. If you think anyone is going to act calm in such a situation then you need to stop being so extremely online.
1 lyamc 2020-05-09
If you watch the security can footage, he was in someone's house, someone else called the police, he ran off, and then these two guys who were neighbours went after him trying to get him to stop running.
What does the jogger do? Attack the guy with the shotgun. Brilliant.
1 UpvoteIfYouDare 2020-05-09
He was trespassing in an open air construction site.
Rofl, look at that slanted summarization. They armed themselves with shotguns, got in their trucks, and drove this guy down.
Looks like you left out some details. They chase him down in their trucks, he flees, and they corner him. Then he panics and charges one of them.
1 lyamc 2020-05-09
You didn't watch the video.
K you definitely did not watch the video because they we in front of him, son got out on the left side of the truck, the black guy ran around the right side of the truck, then turned left and started swing at the guy on the left.
Dude you didn't watch the video
1 [deleted] 2020-05-09
[deleted]
1 UpvoteIfYouDare 2020-05-09
I've seen the security cam footage. The 911 call says it was a house under construction, open air.
Why would a truck be stopped in the middle of the road in front of someone on foot? Why would someone be standing in the back with a gun?
1 lyamc 2020-05-09
Dude. The guy ran out while someone was doing a 911 call and the two guys were neighbours who hopped in their truck and drove in front of him then got out.
If you suspect a robbery then they might be armed
1 UpvoteIfYouDare 2020-05-09
Because just hopping in a car with shotguns to chase down a suspected trespasser is something normal people do. Go look up what criminally negligent manslaughter is.
1 lyamc 2020-05-09
They were legally open carrying and they never pointed the gun at him until he attacked the son and grabbed his shotgun. It even took the dad (the one who killed him) a few seconds to realize that he needed to point his gun at the guy.
1 [deleted] 2020-05-09
[removed]
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1 Logan_Pauler 2020-05-09
cöpe
1 lyamc 2020-05-09
Coupe
1 TaysSecondGussy 2020-05-09
Trilate.
1 SpurmKing 2020-05-09
Yesterday I was banned from r pics for "murder apologia" because I said the case is ambiguous and the dudes will probably get off.
Reddit sucks.
1 Comrade_Natalie 2020-05-09
You'll be glad to avoid the dozens of faceboomer tier posts from that shithole.
1 Wewraw 2020-05-09
Maybe they banned you for still liking Howard Stern after 2014.
1 SpurmKing 2020-05-09
The show was way worse in 2015-2016. Started getting better when Stern remembered that the staff are more interesting than he is.
1 GOD_HATES_DORKS 2020-05-09
Dude has to surround himself with literal tards and hobos to feel superior
1 DrunkenRecidivist 2020-05-09
Pretty sure you didn't have a big enough gun
1 Seattle_Bussy_Lmao 2020-05-09
Don’t mind me just going jogging in my jogging boots 🥾 🥾
1 -M-o-X- 2020-05-09
I predict 8 years for the shooter and 3 for the accomplice and no one is satisfied on either side
1 HodorLePortePorte 2020-05-09
That’s a good enough time for justice.
1 Shitposting_Skeleton 2020-05-09
Manslaughter and reckless use of a firearm, sounds about right. Also depends on if the prosecutor can nail "intent to shoot" on them against the power of his ex-cop status.
1 mohkohnsepicgun 2020-05-09
All I know is that if it weren't for guns there'd probably be more burg€rs than Ch1nese and nobody wants that.
1 hyperactiveinstinct 2020-05-09
I don't care about racism, leftoids, rightoids, or the guns in america, but once someone is killed a full accounting has to be given, and not convincing stories should land people in prison. You want a gun? Fine... don't go around like a knobhead itching for a chance to pull the trigger. These idiots created a situation that they were not prepared to deal with, they were in larger numbers, and yet an unarmed person was killed. Get rekt. Burglary is not reason enough for ending a human life, let alone being only suspicious of it. On top of it, the person was running away.
1 lyamc 2020-05-09
If two guys with shotguns pull up and ask you to stop, do you:
a) run around them
b) stop
c) attack one of the men, grabbing the shotgun
If you look at Arbery's past, you'll see several bad decisions. Additionally, his brother is in prison so it's not like the family is unfamiliar with bad choices.
1 hyperactiveinstinct 2020-05-09
The person brandishing the gun is still accountable for what their use of a gun leads a situation to escalate to. Look, I have no sympathy for the choices made by the guy who was killed, but if you have a gun and you want to coerce people into submission, you need to know what you are doing. This guys didn't.
There was no need for the guy to be killed. The other one could have jumped and come to help. There were plenty of other options. You don't walk to people who are not imminent threat and through your use of a gun create make the person feel threatened creating an imminent threat, and then when the person dies you say: oops.
I mean, you can do, but if you do, you deserve to be sent to a jury, for them to decide if that was negligence, murder, or just self defence,
1 lyamc 2020-05-09
I suggest you watch the video again. The son (left side of the video) was pointing the weapon down, and to the side as he should have been.
The black guy was on the left side, then ran around the right side of the truck.
At this point, NO ONE was pointing a gun at him and he was able to keep running if he had wanted.
But the black guy runs around the front of the truck, attacking the son who had his shotgun, again, not pointed at the guy, which is what made it so easy for the black guy to keep the gun pointed away.
It takes the dad a few seconds to realize what is happening, and he quickly grabs his gun and aims it at the guy who is attacking his son!
Either you didn't watch the video, or you are incapable of following what is happening.
1 hyperactiveinstinct 2020-05-09
By your last sentence I can see you are already taking this personally, and pivoting this discussion to attack me. I don't know why all the idiots on reddit get so emotional with this stupid crap and can't discuss things normally. I saw the video as everyone has and the video is unclear. We might learn what actually happened now that these things are being investigated. I'm done with this r*t*rded discussion. What will matter is what is gonna decided in a court of law. I fucking hate the internet.
1 lyamc 2020-05-09
Maybe next time you should watch the video before commenting about what happened.
People don't teleport so it's clear what happened. The only thing we don't have is audio.
The DA put it better than I could
1 hyperactiveinstinct 2020-05-09
Dude, I have watched this video, everyone has watched this video.. yawn.. go away MDEfugee. You guys are boring.
1 lyamc 2020-05-09
What the heck is MDE you autist?