Isn’t the whole point of IQ that you can directly compare people of wildly different backgrounds using the same scale? Different wealth, age, population, and anything else isn’t supposed to matter.
I mean I unironically agree that skull shape can determine whether or not one is a fucking mongoloid or not. Like you go out into a redneck town and it's a bunch of misshapen skulls and perfectly oval heads and shit and you can just tell everyone there is a goddamn mouth breather. Meanwhile I've never seen or met someone who looks like a Chad but is also as braindead stupid as a redneck.
Nah, the level of education a person receives and the environment they are raised in has a huge impact on their IQ test scores. Quite a few studies have shown that basketball-americans that are adopted and raised by m*yo parents typically score much higher than blacks raised by their biological parents.
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There's also the sugar farmer dealy. By comparing their scores during different seasons, they found IQ rises almost instantly in proportion to your financial security. My theory is that being broke leaves less of your mind available to be in the present. You're either distracted planning for the future, or simply trying not to think about how bad the fututre might be.
Quite a few studies have shown that basketball-americans that are adopted and raised by m*yo parents typically score much higher than blacks raised by their biological parents.
Only when they're younger. They almost always regress back to the mean as adults.
Source: PhD in hatefacts from Jared Taylor University
You can tell when people have only been around m*yos their whole life when they don’t realize the Asians all excel and that the basketballs all seem to be in the lower level classes all while being in the same neighbourhood.
Ok, can I seriouspost for a while? I legit don't know what the truth is, and I'm afraid to ask anywhere else. I'll talk about whites and blacks as these are easy examples.
So whites and blacks have a bunch of different features that set them apart right? Whites are literally white to absorb more vitamin D from the sun, and blacks literally black so as to deal better with the harsh sun of their native lands. So far so good right?
Ok, so a step forward:
Blacks have more tendency toward a certain type of muscle, that makes them, in general, better long distance runners. Very useful for hunting in plains. Whites, on the other hand, generally process lactose better, as that's a very important source of nutrition in colder and darker parts of the planet. Any disagreements?
So how is it, that all these environmental factors only affect you below the neck? Is there literally NOTHING we can say about how, in general, some races have more mental proclivity towards certain things?
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It's totally not impossible, but the data doesn't really support the theory, at least according to the flawed metric of intelligence that IQ is.
Like, if you ask a race realist who the least intelligent race is, they'll say aboriginals or blacks. And yet, if you raise a black or aboriginal child in a white home with proper nutrition, they score the same as a white child would.
Blacks have more tendency toward a certain type of muscle, that makes them, in general, better long distance runners. Very useful for hunting in plains.
Keep in mind wikipedia's insane lefty bias when it comes to articles with a potentially significant political impact and then note that this article still looks like half of it was copy pasted from a /pol/ infographic despite being the subject of innumerable edit wars and a request for deletion.
Whites, on the other hand, generally process lactose better
That hasn't really something to do with skin color or being European. West African tribes and a bunch of Middle Eastern tribes also developed a gene to process milk better. It is also believed that Europeans got the mutation from Middle Eastern tirbes.
As for your "below the neck" environmental factors ... It's just that we can't even come up with a single definition for intelligence. I can take a white MIT nerd that never leaves his basement and say that he is more intelligent that random black tribesman I found in the middle of a jungle in the Kongo, just because the nerd can solve some differential equations. I can also say that the black tribesman is more intelligent, because he wouldn't die within 72 hours when I drop both of them without food or water in a remote area.
IQ does cover this. If you put your MIT nerd and your tribesman in a scenario that is completely unfamiliar to both of them, on average the one with the higher IQ will perform better.
Why do you automatically assume the MIT nerd has a higher IQ? Why does the tribesman skills and instincts don't count towards his IQ points? Again, the nerd dies from exhaustion and dehydration while the tribesman keeps on going because he knows what and where to look for because the environment definitely favors the tribesman.
MIT student faces challenges on the daily that require a high level of cognitive ability. The skillset of the tribesmen does not. The ability to attain the skillset of the tribesmen has a very low bar and almost anyone can learn it. Not everyone can become a successful major in engineering or the hard sciences no matter how hard they try. But this discussion is pointless, because the earlier reply should have clarified any differences between the two.
There's a fuckton of evidence that higher IQ results in better performance in a huge variety of tasks.
This is oft misrepresented and honestly when you dig into the data it becomes a lot murkier. Needless to say there's a Fuck ton of evidence... If you ignore all the initial sampling issues and throw out a whole lot of longitudinal studies that bring that claim into question.
So how is it, that all these environmental factors only affect you below the neck?
1) Musculature is exponentially simpler to study and measure than the brain.
2) We have a very good idea how every muscle in the body works. We still have little idea how the brain works. We know atomic mechanisms like neurotransmitters, but how actual intelligence manifests in the brain is virtually unknown to us.
I did, and I’m sure you didn’t. The best studies don’t support the genetic IQ gap hypothesis.
As a result, I have no general estimate of adoption’s positive effect on IQ, which prevents me from adjusting for the adoptive IQ boost confound. Instead, I adjust for the Flynn effect alone, and then simply ask whether any remaining East Asian IQ advantage is small enough that it could plausibly be attributed to the adoptive IQ boost.
No, they correct for the Flynn effect. They also don’t try to correct for adoptive IQ. Lastly, they report that the balance of studies does not support an IQ difference.
Trying to say somebody is dumb because of ethn just proves that the person talking is dumb (probably inbred hillbilly or a WeWuzkangz type), but how are you gonna tell me 🦇ese and (((they)) aren’t, on average, smarter?
•Average ≠ individual.
•Cultural and background matter.
•Genetics, which are linked to ethni matter.
Or are you gonna try telling me redheads aren’t more likely to get skin cancer?
You passed the test. You are based but not an idiot. Judge people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin and all that. I just hate mayos who go to private schools and vote for Bernie and get mad at minorities when they aren’t as heckin’ woke as they ~\should/~ be.
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Blacks have more tendency toward a certain type of muscle, that makes them, in general, better long distance runners. Very useful for hunting in plains. Whites, on the other hand, generally process lactose better, as that's a very important source of nutrition in colder and darker parts of the planet. Any disagreements?
Yes, it’s not all Africans that are good at distace running, like 95-98% come from East Africa, specifically either Ethiopia or Kenya, with a few coming from countries in the periphery like Eritrea and Somalia. No country even comes to close to those two’s dominance, check this site if you doubt me](http://www.alltime-athletics.com/mmaraok.htm). One reason this might be the high elevation of these places, but otherwise there isn’t much explanation for why
Now a few things to consider. The brain is far far more complex than all those other features you mentioned. Lactose intolerance can be regulated with one gene, while it only takes theoretically a couple of genes to regulate skin color and therefore vitamin D production vs in radiation resistance.
The human brain without a doubt had hundreds, probably thousands of genes regulating it, so it would require likely hundreds of genes to be different to cause variation. And yet apparently gorillas can score higher on IQ tests than whole countries, even though their brains are definitely less advanced than humans. Occam’s razors would suggest the IQ test is flawed.
Secondly, one needs to ask why would IQ genetically amongst the races, and why in the way that it does? There are good reasons for most of the external variations amongst the races. A lot of the physical features of Asians are thought to be related to cold adaptation for instance as East Asia is thought to be very cold at this time. Ditto for Caucasian’s but on a different direction. We already touched on skin color. But why would intelligence be different, and why would @sians score higher than caucasians and (((they))$ the highest of all? It’s especially confusing because intelligence is what made humans so successful so why would not have evolved to its maximum in all populations?
One last thing to consider is that why does all of Africa score poorly on the IQ test? Remember how only East Africa excels at distance running? There are few other areas where these physical extremes occur in fairly specific populations. It appears that sweat Africans are the best in the world at sprinting, and that Celtic people plus Northern Europeans are the very best strongmen in the world. Similarly you might expect some African groups to buck the IQ trend (there is a lot of genetic diversity in Africa after all) but none of them do. It doesn’t make sense that IQ would break cleanly like that while traits like distance running ability would not.
The reason is that scoring well on the "arbitrary test" almost certainly means that you also score well on every other real world test of cognition there is. It doesn't matter what the test is, what matters is how well it predicts outcomes.
Just because you got a C on the IQ test you took doesn't mean that it isn't a valid test.
How about success in life? Would you say IQ correlates with that?
I couldn't care less about racism or prejudice but I am very interested in cognition and intelligence is a really nebulous concept. It's fucked up though that James Watson was ostracised for even suggesting that race affects intelligence. We really need proper research into this stuff
68 comments
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8 lorgar_was_right 2020-05-15
Isn’t the whole point of IQ that you can directly compare people of wildly different backgrounds using the same scale? Different wealth, age, population, and anything else isn’t supposed to matter.
9 GeminiRocket 2020-05-15
Phrenology > IQ
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOSXPfoW4AArI6c.jpg
https://allthatsinteresting.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/mothers-head.jpg
4 pinche_chupacabron 2020-05-15
Thanks to modern science now you only have to measure the nose
1 641232 2020-05-15
My skull is freakishly huge and I don't have hydrocephalus. What does phrenology say this indicates about me?
1 goblincocksmoker 2020-05-15
BIG BRAIN BIG SMART OOOOOOOK
1 Osterion 2020-05-15
Lol it's so blatant that it has to have been some sort of meme
1 snallyfagster 2020-05-15
I mean I unironically agree that skull shape can determine whether or not one is a fucking mongoloid or not. Like you go out into a redneck town and it's a bunch of misshapen skulls and perfectly oval heads and shit and you can just tell everyone there is a goddamn mouth breather. Meanwhile I've never seen or met someone who looks like a Chad but is also as braindead stupid as a redneck.
3 RedditIsFullOfBasics 2020-05-15
The fact that you can practice for IQ tests and get a better score is enough to know that they're bs imo
2 ThatGuy721 2020-05-15
Nah, the level of education a person receives and the environment they are raised in has a huge impact on their IQ test scores. Quite a few studies have shown that basketball-americans that are adopted and raised by m*yo parents typically score much higher than blacks raised by their biological parents.
1 [deleted] 2020-05-15
[removed]
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1 rxpirate 2020-05-15
By a couple points at most
1 SamManilla 2020-05-15
There's also the sugar farmer dealy. By comparing their scores during different seasons, they found IQ rises almost instantly in proportion to your financial security. My theory is that being broke leaves less of your mind available to be in the present. You're either distracted planning for the future, or simply trying not to think about how bad the fututre might be.
-2 Electro_Swoosh 2020-05-15
Only when they're younger. They almost always regress back to the mean as adults.
Source: PhD in hatefacts from Jared Taylor University
1 MassiveMuslima 2020-05-15
No. Flynn Effect.
1 lorgar_was_right 2020-05-15
Thanks I'd never heard of that before
6 fat_fist_fister 2020-05-15
You can tell when people have only been around m*yos their whole life when they don’t realize the Asians all excel and that the basketballs all seem to be in the lower level classes all while being in the same neighbourhood.
1 [deleted] 2020-05-15
[deleted]
2 SnapshillBot 2020-05-15
Seriously. If pornhub is suggesting cuck porn for you, it's because their algorithm has determined, scientifically, that you're a cuck. That's all.
Snapshots:
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2 mustaamustempi 2020-05-15
Ok, can I seriouspost for a while? I legit don't know what the truth is, and I'm afraid to ask anywhere else. I'll talk about whites and blacks as these are easy examples.
So whites and blacks have a bunch of different features that set them apart right? Whites are literally white to absorb more vitamin D from the sun, and blacks literally black so as to deal better with the harsh sun of their native lands. So far so good right?
Ok, so a step forward:
Blacks have more tendency toward a certain type of muscle, that makes them, in general, better long distance runners. Very useful for hunting in plains. Whites, on the other hand, generally process lactose better, as that's a very important source of nutrition in colder and darker parts of the planet. Any disagreements?
So how is it, that all these environmental factors only affect you below the neck? Is there literally NOTHING we can say about how, in general, some races have more mental proclivity towards certain things?
Discuss.
1 [deleted] 2020-05-15
[removed]
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1 ezrealprodigy 2020-05-15
It's totally not impossible, but the data doesn't really support the theory, at least according to the flawed metric of intelligence that IQ is.
Like, if you ask a race realist who the least intelligent race is, they'll say aboriginals or blacks. And yet, if you raise a black or aboriginal child in a white home with proper nutrition, they score the same as a white child would.
1 Comrade_Natalie 2020-05-15
What did arr drama mean by this?
1 ArlenBilldozer 2020-05-15
Jimmy the Greek-pilled
1 herbstens 2020-05-15
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_Science_on_Intelligence
1 641232 2020-05-15
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence
Keep in mind wikipedia's insane lefty bias when it comes to articles with a potentially significant political impact and then note that this article still looks like half of it was copy pasted from a /pol/ infographic despite being the subject of innumerable edit wars and a request for deletion.
1 ThinkingOnce 2020-05-15
That hasn't really something to do with skin color or being European. West African tribes and a bunch of Middle Eastern tribes also developed a gene to process milk better. It is also believed that Europeans got the mutation from Middle Eastern tirbes.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ad/0c/5d/ad0c5d9d727a85f3c9f4e5412cb50de6.jpg
1 mustaamustempi 2020-05-15
Because lactose producing animals were native to their place of origin, yes?
1 ThinkingOnce 2020-05-15
Yeah, like goats or something similar.
As for your "below the neck" environmental factors ... It's just that we can't even come up with a single definition for intelligence. I can take a white MIT nerd that never leaves his basement and say that he is more intelligent that random black tribesman I found in the middle of a jungle in the Kongo, just because the nerd can solve some differential equations. I can also say that the black tribesman is more intelligent, because he wouldn't die within 72 hours when I drop both of them without food or water in a remote area.
1 641232 2020-05-15
IQ does cover this. If you put your MIT nerd and your tribesman in a scenario that is completely unfamiliar to both of them, on average the one with the higher IQ will perform better.
1 Comrade_Natalie 2020-05-15
Why do you automatically assume the MIT nerd has a higher IQ? Why does the tribesman skills and instincts don't count towards his IQ points? Again, the nerd dies from exhaustion and dehydration while the tribesman keeps on going because he knows what and where to look for because the environment definitely favors the tribesman.
1 BrownRingOfDeath 2020-05-15
MIT student faces challenges on the daily that require a high level of cognitive ability. The skillset of the tribesmen does not. The ability to attain the skillset of the tribesmen has a very low bar and almost anyone can learn it. Not everyone can become a successful major in engineering or the hard sciences no matter how hard they try. But this discussion is pointless, because the earlier reply should have clarified any differences between the two.
1 [deleted] 2020-05-15
[removed]
1 641232 2020-05-15
I never said that they did, in fact I specifically avoided saying that the MIT nerd has a higher IQ.
😡
1 Whaddaulookinat 2020-05-15
This is oft misrepresented and honestly when you dig into the data it becomes a lot murkier. Needless to say there's a Fuck ton of evidence... If you ignore all the initial sampling issues and throw out a whole lot of longitudinal studies that bring that claim into question.
1 [deleted] 2020-05-15
[removed]
1 [deleted] 2020-05-15
[removed]
1 newcomer_ts 2020-05-15
You've heard about this 1sst black valedictorian at Princeton... well, his parents cred is
This is a top tier, 2% achiever family, not just in Canada but anywhere.
The last thing that contributed to this kid being a valedictorian is his skin colour.
But by God, it makes a helluva great fairy tale story.
1 ason 2020-05-15
https://i.redd.it/skn11u5gjh141.png
1 UpvoteIfYouDare 2020-05-15
1) Musculature is exponentially simpler to study and measure than the brain.
2) We have a very good idea how every muscle in the body works. We still have little idea how the brain works. We know atomic mechanisms like neurotransmitters, but how actual intelligence manifests in the brain is virtually unknown to us.
1 MassiveMuslima 2020-05-15
Surely it did influence above the neck. Our best studies don’t find a really significant difference. https://www.mdpi.com/2079-3200/5/1/1
2 throwaway_at_ 2020-05-15
Not sure you read that.
It says there are 100% recorders differences, but uses words to explain why these differences aren’t really important with 2 main arguments:
Adoptive families are richer and more supportive
Flynn effect is ignored
1 MassiveMuslima 2020-05-15
I did, and I’m sure you didn’t. The best studies don’t support the genetic IQ gap hypothesis.
No, they correct for the Flynn effect. They also don’t try to correct for adoptive IQ. Lastly, they report that the balance of studies does not support an IQ difference.
1 throwaway_at_ 2020-05-15
That honestly all sounds like excuses.
Trying to say somebody is dumb because of ethn just proves that the person talking is dumb (probably inbred hillbilly or a WeWuzkangz type), but how are you gonna tell me 🦇ese and (((they)) aren’t, on average, smarter?
•Average ≠ individual.
•Cultural and background matter.
•Genetics, which are linked to ethni matter.
Or are you gonna try telling me redheads aren’t more likely to get skin cancer?
1 MassiveMuslima 2020-05-15
Correcting for the Flynn effect is required to have valid results. I just call it understanding the structure of the problem.
1 [deleted] 2020-05-15
[deleted]
1 throwaway_at_ 2020-05-15
I’m just gonna give you a 👍🏽.
You passed the test. You are based but not an idiot. Judge people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin and all that. I just hate mayos who go to private schools and vote for Bernie and get mad at minorities when they aren’t as heckin’ woke as they ~\should/~ be.
1 throwaway_at_ 2020-05-15
Cold winters a’ coming, I may need to plan ahead and make sure I have the supplies to last.
That may include some complex tools, building shit, useful clothes craftin’, and most importantly, some major forethought.
My poor cousin Markus, a little on the dumb side, didn’t survive last winter because he never planned ahead 🥶
1 [deleted] 2020-05-15
[removed]
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1 RIPGeorgeHarrison 2020-05-15
Before anything else
Yes, it’s not all Africans that are good at distace running, like 95-98% come from East Africa, specifically either Ethiopia or Kenya, with a few coming from countries in the periphery like Eritrea and Somalia. No country even comes to close to those two’s dominance, check this site if you doubt me](http://www.alltime-athletics.com/mmaraok.htm). One reason this might be the high elevation of these places, but otherwise there isn’t much explanation for why
Now a few things to consider. The brain is far far more complex than all those other features you mentioned. Lactose intolerance can be regulated with one gene, while it only takes theoretically a couple of genes to regulate skin color and therefore vitamin D production vs in radiation resistance.
The human brain without a doubt had hundreds, probably thousands of genes regulating it, so it would require likely hundreds of genes to be different to cause variation. And yet apparently gorillas can score higher on IQ tests than whole countries, even though their brains are definitely less advanced than humans. Occam’s razors would suggest the IQ test is flawed.
Secondly, one needs to ask why would IQ genetically amongst the races, and why in the way that it does? There are good reasons for most of the external variations amongst the races. A lot of the physical features of Asians are thought to be related to cold adaptation for instance as East Asia is thought to be very cold at this time. Ditto for Caucasian’s but on a different direction. We already touched on skin color. But why would intelligence be different, and why would @sians score higher than caucasians and (((they))$ the highest of all? It’s especially confusing because intelligence is what made humans so successful so why would not have evolved to its maximum in all populations?
One last thing to consider is that why does all of Africa score poorly on the IQ test? Remember how only East Africa excels at distance running? There are few other areas where these physical extremes occur in fairly specific populations. It appears that sweat Africans are the best in the world at sprinting, and that Celtic people plus Northern Europeans are the very best strongmen in the world. Similarly you might expect some African groups to buck the IQ trend (there is a lot of genetic diversity in Africa after all) but none of them do. It doesn’t make sense that IQ would break cleanly like that while traits like distance running ability would not.
1 Pepperglue 2020-05-15
Can't wait for IQ to become pseudoscience. What would be the next metric to go?
5 inquirer 2020-05-15
Trans rights
1 Pepperglue 2020-05-15
God I wish.
1 Comrade_Natalie 2020-05-15
Lmao
1 [deleted] 2020-05-15
[deleted]
4 ManBearFridge 2020-05-15
Mayo skin
1 AlecOzzyHillPitas 2020-05-15
It literally is though. What makes some arbitrary test a “scientific” measure of cognitive capability?
Inb4 “well it’s the best heuristic we have and if you refer to chapter 3 of The Bell Curve you’ll see...”
Give it a rest.
1 641232 2020-05-15
The reason is that scoring well on the "arbitrary test" almost certainly means that you also score well on every other real world test of cognition there is. It doesn't matter what the test is, what matters is how well it predicts outcomes.
Just because you got a C on the IQ test you took doesn't mean that it isn't a valid test.
2 languidhorse 2020-05-15
How about success in life? Would you say IQ correlates with that?
I couldn't care less about racism or prejudice but I am very interested in cognition and intelligence is a really nebulous concept. It's fucked up though that James Watson was ostracised for even suggesting that race affects intelligence. We really need proper research into this stuff
1 [deleted] 2020-05-15
[removed]
1 Whaddaulookinat 2020-05-15
The IQ being predictive claim is strained at best, for a variety of reasons.
1 Chapocel 2020-05-15
You must be dumb at parties.
1 GaysianSupremacist 2020-05-15
Being good at abstract thinking is extremely important since it means how easy are an individual to be fooled. And IQ attempts to measure that.
1 wohSdooGAstI 2020-05-15
Going to Waterloo for a polisci degree is like going to the keg and ordering a salad