Iran just shot itself in the foot because why do you think Kerry gave that info in the first place? Kerry basically created the Joint Comprehensive Plan Of Action ("Iran Nuclear Deal"). Giving that information was a way to show trust could be had by both parties.
Orangetard fucked all that up out of spite and now there will likely never be another nuclear deal because Iran can't keep their fucking mouth shut. Also, Israel's withholding of information is very dangerous for U.S. safety because Israel has amazing HUMINT that no other Middle Eastern adversary or ally could ever provide the United States.
So now we have no nuclear deal, Israel can't trust us, and we can't trust Iran. This isn't back to square one. It's a loss for everyone involved.
Israel (along with the rest of America's allies) doesn't want Iran to have nukes. Iran wants sanctions lifted. America wants Israel's human-gathered intelligence. How is this only an Israel problem?
Israel doesn't benefit you or me. It's their HUMINT that's valuable to America's Middle East policy and strategy. The U.S. has the very best SIGINT collection capabilities in the world but it severely lacks HUMINT capabilities in the Middle East.
But, again, America's Middle East policy and strategy is almost entirely designed around protecting Israel. Without Israel, we wouldn't need to do much in the region at all. Therefore we wouldn't need info from Israeli spies in the region.
So I get you're saying they provide intelligence valuable for protecting Israeli interests, but if we weren't protecting Israeli interests we wouldn't have much use for that intelligence.
And you could argue we would still have some need for intelligence in the region even without them, but it'd cost much less than the existence of Israel. Do we agree?
You've lost me. You might need to reread my comment.
My point was that if not for our support of Israel, we wouldn't have nearly as much involvement in the region. You're arguing we need their Intel, but we only need the Intel to protect them.
If we weren't protecting them, we wouldn't have such a need for regional Intel.
It did one thing but, again, it did that thing to the US because we prop up Israel. No Israel, no 9/11, no two decades of security theater and losing wars.
It only happened because we hang out with them, sounds like we should stay away from them.
Not that I'm losing sleep over dead New Yorkers mind you. But the cost/benefit analysis clearly shows it's a relationship we're much better off without.
Americans now need more than ever Israeli intelligence because they are ball deep in the ME dealing with multiple threats, bibi obsessional disorder with Iraq then Iran being 6 months away of going nuclear for more than 20 years might have something to do with it in the first place ? I bet they have others networks of informations now to bypass Israel, it's not the 80's anymore
Most seasoned ex mossad leaders agree that it was (and still is) a mistake for Israel's security to have pull out of the Iran deal unilaterally.
A long time ago when the head of mossad was a pretty reasonable guy, he would straight say no to the pm of Israel about direct strikes on Iran but now the CEO of mossad is pretty much a bibi's fan with larger political ambitions so this kind of stuff happened with direct clashes and retaliation from the Iranians
Israel / Iran geography and animosity won't change but the US foreign policy can, so that's why I said that's more a you problem at the moment, so forgive Kerry to try to round up the angles and move on, greatest ally. 😌✌️
I'm not Israeli. Not sure where you got that idea from. You seem to know more about Mossad than I do. I'm American and tend to look at events like these through a "what's best for America" lens.
Given the amount of animosity America receives because of the relationship with Israel, the life of the average American would arguably improve significantly if Israel was gone.
If not for Israel, there would have been no 9/11 or war on terror. Which means airport security would be much less ridiculous and travel would be much more fun.
MBS, by just public intel accounts, thinks everything in the world works like Saudi palace intrigue and that's his hammer in his world of nails. Like he's completely devoid of how other systems work. So yeah he's pretty dangerous
The only thing worse than him being ignorant is him being very competent in my opinion. There were allegedly assassination attempts that he survived. He seems to have the support of the ruling elite and clerics now, even making his son the heir. He purged his enemies within the family. He might be around for a while, doing Allah knows what.
Yeah I'm not sure I buy the assassination claim because it is from him and was one of the pretenses that he used with his allies in the security services to lock up and rob the heirarchy above him in the pecking order. He was like what 10 on the list and suddenly became heir apparent...
I like long posts. The bot was funny but often I'll find people here with interesting things to say who are scared to write them out until you're like three layers deep in the comment chain.
But in this case, all good thoughts are simple. Anyone telling you the Middle East is complicated is just a Israel sympathizer.
I really don't know why EU still wants to deal with Iran, given Iran's actions in the last four years. I mean, sending agents to wreck shit in Europe should have soured the relation between EU and Iran, but it seems that it never went anywhere.
Is the West really this cucked, that it has to bend-over backward for Iran?
I think we should just glass central Asia and call it a day. That place is way too much of a problem to deal with.
If N. Korea came out and said they wanted to make peace with the world and become a democratic, free nation would the entire free world not want to seek dialogue with them?
Iran is strategically more important to the world than N. Korea so any chance at making peace with Iran is beneficial to us all. Remember how that one ship stops 60% of the world's shipping containers? Iran can do that on a whim.
free nation would the entire free world not want to seek dialogue with them?
And the Free World would be an idiot for falling for that trick again.
I get what you are saying, but trusting them to play nice, despite them repeatedly demonstrated that they are not trust-wrothy in any way whatsoever, is just being dumb.
Okay dude I think you’re missing the point. Israelis look Arab and Persian. They can pass as both. Americans can barely speak a second language and 90% of Americans couldn’t find Iran on a map.
In The Lord of the Rings, J. R. R. Tolkien drew upon the language and themes found in the old Medieval hero-tales in order to construct a kind of new mythology. The brilliance of Tolkien was in his departure from the Pagan modes of conduct and morality of these old tales, his creation of a syncretistic fusion between Christian thought and Pagan language, and so his work achieved a deep resonance with all who read it.
We find this passage at the conclusion of The Return of the King:
>The Dark Lord was suddenly aware of him, and his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made; and the magnitude of his own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash, and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare.
Adversaries in the stories that Tolkien drew upon, Grendel, Mordred and the like, often served as obstacles that the heroes could overcome through feats of strength and cunning. Sauron is not like them. When Sauron is defeated, it is not because Aragorn is stronger than him or because Gandalf is wiser. They are not. It is only that his hubris was so great that it never occured to him that anyone would want to destroy the thing he held so dear. It is not until the final few seconds of his existence that he realises his mistake.
I think that I Am Jazz displays a similar moment. In the pictured scene, Jazz's journey to what he believes is womanhood is almost complete. He is resting after surgery, a triumphant smile on his face, his rotting groin held together by a labyrinthine patchwork of stitches and grafts. But as Eru Ilúvatar nudged Gollum over the Crack of Doom into the fires beneath, so too does the God of our world intervene in this.
>Pop!
In a second, the follies of men are undone and Jazz's crotch explodes, a meaty froth of blood and pus pouring out of the hole where his penis used to be.
61 comments
11 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
Iran just shot itself in the foot because why do you think Kerry gave that info in the first place? Kerry basically created the Joint Comprehensive Plan Of Action ("Iran Nuclear Deal"). Giving that information was a way to show trust could be had by both parties.
Orangetard fucked all that up out of spite and now there will likely never be another nuclear deal because Iran can't keep their fucking mouth shut. Also, Israel's withholding of information is very dangerous for U.S. safety because Israel has amazing HUMINT that no other Middle Eastern adversary or ally could ever provide the United States.
So now we have no nuclear deal, Israel can't trust us, and we can't trust Iran. This isn't back to square one. It's a loss for everyone involved.
13 -frozen-chosen- 2021-04-27
Sis we could never trust the Iranians.
Source: was married to one
12 GeminiRocket 2021-04-27
Idk, sounds more like a "you" 🇮🇱 problem.
5 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
Israel (along with the rest of America's allies) doesn't want Iran to have nukes. Iran wants sanctions lifted. America wants Israel's human-gathered intelligence. How is this only an Israel problem?
5 Leylinus 2021-04-27
Calling Israel an American ally is a stretch, it's a one way relationship.
Israel has significant control over America through a powerful lobby. As such, a lot of American foreign policy benefits Israel.
Israel doesn't bring much of anything to the table though. We wouldn't need to be in the region at all of we weren't there to push Israeli interests.
8 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
So you’re really one of those huh
8 Leylinus 2021-04-27
One of what? Someone that doesn't like Israel? They've never done anything for me and they're the reason I have to take off my shoes at the airport.
If you've got any reason I should like them, I'm happy to listen. Could be they provide me directly some benefit I'm unaware of.
7 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
I found the topic that makes you super serious. Why does this topic get you to put your Angry Man hat on? Hmmm...
5 Leylinus 2021-04-27
You're reading something into these comments that isn't there. I hate America far more than I dislike Israel.
I just thought you might have an argument on why Israel benefits me and I was willing to listen.
6 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
Israel doesn't benefit you or me. It's their HUMINT that's valuable to America's Middle East policy and strategy. The U.S. has the very best SIGINT collection capabilities in the world but it severely lacks HUMINT capabilities in the Middle East.
9 Leylinus 2021-04-27
But, again, America's Middle East policy and strategy is almost entirely designed around protecting Israel. Without Israel, we wouldn't need to do much in the region at all. Therefore we wouldn't need info from Israeli spies in the region.
So I get you're saying they provide intelligence valuable for protecting Israeli interests, but if we weren't protecting Israeli interests we wouldn't have much use for that intelligence.
And you could argue we would still have some need for intelligence in the region even without them, but it'd cost much less than the existence of Israel. Do we agree?
2 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
Mr. "Question Israel's Existence" thinks we should just rely entirely on the information Israel gives America.
5 Leylinus 2021-04-27
You've lost me. You might need to reread my comment.
My point was that if not for our support of Israel, we wouldn't have nearly as much involvement in the region. You're arguing we need their Intel, but we only need the Intel to protect them.
If we weren't protecting them, we wouldn't have such a need for regional Intel.
6 The_Dramanomicon 2021-04-27
I think you almost have him serious posting. Based though I agree completely
3 Homofascism 2021-04-27
Yeah regionnal intel is useless, middle east never did anything yo the us anyway
3 Leylinus 2021-04-27
It did one thing but, again, it did that thing to the US because we prop up Israel. No Israel, no 9/11, no two decades of security theater and losing wars.
2 Homofascism 2021-04-27
Israel told us 9/11 would happens, didn't they?Sound like we should listen to them more
2 Leylinus 2021-04-27
It only happened because we hang out with them, sounds like we should stay away from them.
Not that I'm losing sleep over dead New Yorkers mind you. But the cost/benefit analysis clearly shows it's a relationship we're much better off without.
2 Homofascism 2021-04-27
There is something called honor and standing up for what is right, but burgers don't know what this is :smug:
2 Leylinus 2021-04-27
I agree, so it definitely shouldn't factor into this situation.
Not that standing up for what's right has anything to do with a colonizer apartheid state.
1 Homofascism 2021-04-27
Americans are well known for deceiving all, even themselves tho.
1 [deleted] 2021-04-27
[deleted]
3 GeminiRocket 2021-04-27
Americans now need more than ever Israeli intelligence because they are ball deep in the ME dealing with multiple threats, bibi obsessional disorder with Iraq then Iran being 6 months away of going nuclear for more than 20 years might have something to do with it in the first place ? I bet they have others networks of informations now to bypass Israel, it's not the 80's anymore
Most seasoned ex mossad leaders agree that it was (and still is) a mistake for Israel's security to have pull out of the Iran deal unilaterally.
A long time ago when the head of mossad was a pretty reasonable guy, he would straight say no to the pm of Israel about direct strikes on Iran but now the CEO of mossad is pretty much a bibi's fan with larger political ambitions so this kind of stuff happened with direct clashes and retaliation from the Iranians
Israel / Iran geography and animosity won't change but the US foreign policy can, so that's why I said that's more a you problem at the moment, so forgive Kerry to try to round up the angles and move on, greatest ally. 😌✌️
6 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
I'm not Israeli. Not sure where you got that idea from. You seem to know more about Mossad than I do. I'm American and tend to look at events like these through a "what's best for America" lens.
8 GeminiRocket 2021-04-27
I know that you're Hodor of GoT, are you suggesting I'm retarded too
2 JeanPeuplu 2021-04-27
We all are, don't worry.
8 Leylinus 2021-04-27
Given the amount of animosity America receives because of the relationship with Israel, the life of the average American would arguably improve significantly if Israel was gone.
If not for Israel, there would have been no 9/11 or war on terror. Which means airport security would be much less ridiculous and travel would be much more fun.
8 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
lol and you’re a 9/11 truther? Wow 🤩
12 Leylinus 2021-04-27
What? No, you misunderstand.
I'm not saying Israel did 9/11. I'm saying our support of Israel was a major motivator for 9/11. From a terrorist perspective.
And I presume I don't have to explain the neoconservative position on Israel and how it motivated the war on terror.
4 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
Imagine blaming a country for a terrorist bombing you just because you vow to support said country's existence.
7 Leylinus 2021-04-27
Why wouldn't I? Asking seriously.
That's a cost of association with them. It's something you factor in when weighing the cost v. benefit of the relationship.
2 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
Imagine blaming a country for a terrorist bombing you just because you vow to support said country's existence.
5 Leylinus 2021-04-27
You already said that, I genuinely don't understand your point.
2 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
I don't really care to explain further
6 Leylinus 2021-04-27
You haven't explained at all...
3 Tobyghisa 2021-04-27
You are the Masterlawlz of political takes. I love you.
1 Leylinus 2021-04-27
😘
5 busslordlowkeybussin 2021-04-27
Is this a win for the Saudis?
5 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
Yes.
3 busslordlowkeybussin 2021-04-27
That always makes me uneasy. Of all the Middle Eastern leaders I trust MBS the least. Except in that one Lil Wayne story.
5 Whaddaulookinat 2021-04-27
MBS, by just public intel accounts, thinks everything in the world works like Saudi palace intrigue and that's his hammer in his world of nails. Like he's completely devoid of how other systems work. So yeah he's pretty dangerous
4 busslordlowkeybussin 2021-04-27
The only thing worse than him being ignorant is him being very competent in my opinion. There were allegedly assassination attempts that he survived. He seems to have the support of the ruling elite and clerics now, even making his son the heir. He purged his enemies within the family. He might be around for a while, doing Allah knows what.
7 Whaddaulookinat 2021-04-27
Yeah I'm not sure I buy the assassination claim because it is from him and was one of the pretenses that he used with his allies in the security services to lock up and rob the heirarchy above him in the pecking order. He was like what 10 on the list and suddenly became heir apparent...
3 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
That's American exceptionalism right there.
4 Leylinus 2021-04-27
Sounds like a good deal for me. Fuck the US and Israel. And here's hoping for a nuclear Iran!
12 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
Excuse me but this subreddit is for serious longposts only now.
2 Leylinus 2021-04-27
I like long posts. The bot was funny but often I'll find people here with interesting things to say who are scared to write them out until you're like three layers deep in the comment chain.
But in this case, all good thoughts are simple. Anyone telling you the Middle East is complicated is just a Israel sympathizer.
9 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
May you forever confuse salt for sugar and your tea will be forever salty like the tears of your people when Israel crushes them.
3 tenebrous_cloud 2021-04-27
>believing there was ever an actual nuclear deal
lol there is no party in any of this that can be trusted.
0 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
Except America
3 tenebrous_cloud 2021-04-27
i said what i said
3 Pepperglue 2021-04-27
I really don't know why EU still wants to deal with Iran, given Iran's actions in the last four years. I mean, sending agents to wreck shit in Europe should have soured the relation between EU and Iran, but it seems that it never went anywhere.
Is the West really this cucked, that it has to bend-over backward for Iran?
I think we should just glass central Asia and call it a day. That place is way too much of a problem to deal with.
3 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
If N. Korea came out and said they wanted to make peace with the world and become a democratic, free nation would the entire free world not want to seek dialogue with them?
Iran is strategically more important to the world than N. Korea so any chance at making peace with Iran is beneficial to us all. Remember how that one ship stops 60% of the world's shipping containers? Iran can do that on a whim.
2 Pepperglue 2021-04-27
And the Free World would be an idiot for falling for that trick again.
I get what you are saying, but trusting them to play nice, despite them repeatedly demonstrated that they are not trust-wrothy in any way whatsoever, is just being dumb.
1 GeauxHouston22 2021-04-27
anyone else hear the sound of helicopters approaching....?
1 ineedmorealts 2021-04-27
> Acting like the NSA hasn't backdoored literally everything in Israel
That's not how America treats it's satellite states
1 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
NSA isn’t HUMINT. I’ve already stated that US SIGINT (NSA) is top notch.
1 ineedmorealts 2021-04-27
But the NSA has access to all the infrastructure that HUMINT uses.
1 HodorTheDoorHolder__ 2021-04-27
Okay dude I think you’re missing the point. Israelis look Arab and Persian. They can pass as both. Americans can barely speak a second language and 90% of Americans couldn’t find Iran on a map.
1 ineedmorealts 2021-04-27
Sorry I forgot the average American is rslured
2 SnapshillBot 2021-04-27
In The Lord of the Rings, J. R. R. Tolkien drew upon the language and themes found in the old Medieval hero-tales in order to construct a kind of new mythology. The brilliance of Tolkien was in his departure from the Pagan modes of conduct and morality of these old tales, his creation of a syncretistic fusion between Christian thought and Pagan language, and so his work achieved a deep resonance with all who read it.
We find this passage at the conclusion of The Return of the King:
>The Dark Lord was suddenly aware of him, and his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made; and the magnitude of his own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash, and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare.
Adversaries in the stories that Tolkien drew upon, Grendel, Mordred and the like, often served as obstacles that the heroes could overcome through feats of strength and cunning. Sauron is not like them. When Sauron is defeated, it is not because Aragorn is stronger than him or because Gandalf is wiser. They are not. It is only that his hubris was so great that it never occured to him that anyone would want to destroy the thing he held so dear. It is not until the final few seconds of his existence that he realises his mistake.
I think that I Am Jazz displays a similar moment. In the pictured scene, Jazz's journey to what he believes is womanhood is almost complete. He is resting after surgery, a triumphant smile on his face, his rotting groin held together by a labyrinthine patchwork of stitches and grafts. But as Eru Ilúvatar nudged Gollum over the Crack of Doom into the fires beneath, so too does the God of our world intervene in this.
>Pop!
In a second, the follies of men are undone and Jazz's crotch explodes, a meaty froth of blood and pus pouring out of the hole where his penis used to be.
In that moment of blind panic and terror, Jazz is Sauron. All triumph and victory is gone. Only the Void remains.
Snapshots:
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