Hello. The Hole’s day of deletion approaches, so it's time to post again.

I still don’t know if something like DM’s exist on this site, so, like a certified r-slur, I will again make an entire post to ask a question. This time I’ll just put the important part first, and then the filler part.

Carp. Remember when I said I didn’t care that I’m no longer a mod after the Hole change? Well I still obviously very much don’t care, buuut… During that conversation you said you will make me a mod, almost like you thought I wasn’t earnest when I brought that fact unprompted. Busy with Donkey Kong December (April-May edition) it must have slipped your mind, and thus the matter remains unresolved. With that promise, consciously or not, you put your reputation on the line, and while I don’t want to pressure you, if a bad faith actor digs this out in the future, he may use it to tarnish your spotless record. So. Well. That's that.

Anyway here is the part of the post:

I don’t feel confident talking about any nuanced aspects of Catholicism, since my knowledge is not deep enough.

Hey did you know that the number of fish (153) caught by the apostles, has no official explanation, but there are theories… Well fact’s like that are pretty well know. The same way the church I wrote about last time is know to all Poles, since our geography teachers are programmed talk about it whenever „erosion” is mentioned. I wrote about it in hopes of someone quoting the name Trzęsacz and saying „most legible polish name”, or some lame joke like that, and well… I was left disappointed.

So, while talking about churches is superficial I still wanted to mention one, that is at somewhat not well known, and hopefully at least half a person finds it interesting.

But, since it’s located in modern day Mexico, and was built in 16th-century, I wanted to address one thing:

When it comes to Spanish conquest of America it seems to have a lot of people really upset. You often encounter voices decrying evil colonizers oppressed the peaceful Indians, and their ritualistic consumption of human corpses. While I’m not some Cathlarper jacking off to Conquistachads I can’t help to view what they did as just another war of conquest. It may be a controversial opinion on what I’m often told is the biggest Aztec heritage forum on the internet, but it’s what I believe. Setting out to grab land and wealth is the most boring and common cause for war to ever exist, and if someone were to condemn Spaniards for this, I don’t know why would you treat Aztecs any differently.

(Illustration of Aztec pool party).

The more interesting aspect is whether or not Christianisation of that territory was just an excuse, or actual concern for the conquistadors. Hernan Cortez for one wanted only mendicant orders to spread faith in the New World, but was it because he though the were more pious, or just was scared that the more mainstream churches will steal his loot? Who knows.

Speaking of the man, Hernan Cortez, tops my personal Best Historical names list. Reading him up, he definitely deserves it. But it's not time for that.

With that tangent out of the way, lets talk about what I wanted to talk about:

Iglesia de Nuestra Señora de los Remedios which translates into Our Lady of Remedies Church, located in the city of Cholula, was built in 1575, and consecrated 54 years later.

The first thing I want to get out of the way, is that I don’t want to talk about this church for aesthetic reasons. I actually find it’s exterior ugly, many weird flat roofs, and the colour… I know all historical Spanish buildings are orange, but there are different shades of orange, and this one is assaulting my eyes.

(The interior looks much better than the exterior though).

The aspect I wan to talk about is something very specific to this church. If you look closely at the hill below, it may look artificial. That’s because it’s actually not a hill, and even not some mound build to raise the church higher, no, it’s the worlds largest pyramid.

The pyramid is called Tlachihualtepetl or the Great Pyramid of Cholula, which is not very creative if you ask me. Older than the Aztec empire, was build by Olmeca-Xicalanca people (I think, I didn’t have much time to confirm this) and was buried long before the Spaniards arrived. The pyramid is not very impressive for its size, since it’s wide, and flat, and also underground. Because of that it’s not as well known as other pyramids which have the advantage of not needing a geo radar to be spectated.

Compered to the Other Great Pyramid it’s 121m lower (25m vs 146m), but it’s base of 94 500 m2 is much larger than Giza’s 52 900m2. The interior tunnels span for about 8 km. Some of the pyramid is excavated, and can be spectated by tourist, at least from the outside.

The most fascinating, and striking aspect of this whole thing is just the image of the church standing on top. The pyramid actually was originally also an iteration of structure built on top of a structure, so the church topping it all seems quite fitting. It’s like a flag on a conquered city. Symbolizes conquest of Christianity, and European culture. I don’t necessarily think using force to spread religion was a good thing, but I can’t deny that I find symbolism here compelling.

Anyway, the pyramid can’t be uncovered, because the church itself is also a historical monument, and it causes some drama in youtube comments.

Well, more like impotent seething of people upset by church’s existence:

Also this guy:

Well, that's that. Quite a dry post, but I couldn’t find my funny bone for this one.

Anyway, have a good day F A G G O T S.

TLDR: Carp can I have my green bell back? Conquistadors = complicated. Church on a pyramid. I'm dying of exhaustion from writing this, at the last minute.

This headline sold me on eternal conscious torment

Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”

40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear. - Matthew 13

I think I've become so contrariarian that I've looped back to being a Christian

Here is a story: In a shoreside village Trzęsacz (previously called Hoff) in what is today Poland, there was a XIV-th century Gothic church. Dedicated to Saint Nicholas, it replaced the earlier 1124 wooden church, and was quite an opulent structure for a village.

Here is it’s interior. You can see it was fairly well equipped. With a triptych, choir stalls, and all.

And the outside shot, with a view of the shore.

But, today the church is no more, and only a single wall remains. How did that happen?

Well, the first tragedy struck in 1534 with the Trzebiatów Sejm announcing evangelicalism as the official religion in the West Pomerania region, causing the church to fall into heathen hands. It is safe to assume this heretical action sealed its fate.

Until 1818 it had a bell tower, but the tower was attracting thunders so much it had to be demolished. We can only assume it was God showing his discontent with the path this temple has taken. Some may say He was taking His time since it was almost three centuries after the change in denomination, but it’s not like He was in a hurry, and so the ultimate destruction that came after was painfully slow.

And it was facilitated through, one of the least impressive at the moment, but impressive over time forces of nature. Erosion.

While the Gothic structure from the latter part of XIV-th century was build 2 km (9,94 Furlongs for those still using Imperial) away from sea, in the 1870 photo above you can see that the distance drastically shortened. 1874 was the year the church was closed, and then over the years sea consumed it brick by brick (well probably multiple bricks at a time), until 1994 when, after a major collapse of the last remaining wall, the municipality decided to try and save what was left. In 2001 a construction company (called Stabilator, quite fitting) created a seawall at the bottom, and in 2002 the wall was reinforced with15 m rods, and anchors. So what’s left of the single wall remains to this day.

Interestingly Prussians actually tried to save the church in the past, as far as 1750, but with seemingly no success.

Church today.

As a sidenote, one local legends explaining the collapse says: A fishermen fishing in the sea nearby caught sea goddess Zielenica. Then local parish priest inprisoned her, and kept her captive until she died of sorrow. Following that the god Bałtyk, her father, tried to get her body back from the church cemetery by progressively eroding the ground.

It was obviously concocted by some locals, but for supposed Christians this legend is not very Christian at all.

Anyway that’s the story of the Trzęsacz Church.

You may be thinking, what is the point of this. Is this some fun fact Friday? And if so, where is the fun?

Well, you've got me.

I’m kind of an r-slur, and I did not know how to ask. Do Holes still expire in 7 days? I was sure it’s two weeks now, but the site guide says 7 days.

Because if they do this one is going to die tomorrow. And I know Florist of Carpathia, may be upset, and even dismayed that he didn’t get the name right (an honest mistake really could have happened to anyone), and may have given up on this place, but if this Hole outlives the imposter one I’m sure our Egyptian Overlord, might consider his plight for a name change.

So this post is just a glorified bump really. Also, 7 days or 14, can someone tell me?

Thank you in advance.

(also, Carp I know you are busy with the site being broken, and all, but I hope you haven't given up on this Hole that has a tremendous number of new posts (1 since creation) with tons of engagement (comment from Snappy), it's fall would be a great (symbolic) loss for Catholicism)

It looks like the Hole thing is not valid anymore, ignore it.

carpathianflorist