!neolibs !bookworms there's a book "Infantilised" by a Bong author.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/199617292-infantilised
The first link is The Economist article.
Some highlights
Over many years as a lecturer, Mr Hayward grew concerned that his 18-year-old students "resembled less mature teenagers on the cusp of adulthood and more fearful schoolchildren adrift in an alien world of adult autonomy". One arrived in class dressed in a onesie, noting that it was cold and he liked to feel comfortable. Was he not "concerned about the infantilising overtones of such a garment?" asked Mr Hayward. "No, I want to be treated like a kid," came the reply. "Adulting is hard."
Finally, Mr Hayward chides the liberal commentariat. On the one hand, they celebrated Greta Thunberg, a former schoolgirl activist, as an "all-knowing sage", despite her possessing "no scientific expertise" and saying "nothing original whatsoever about climate issues". This, he claims, is evidence of "a role reversal in which young people are increasingly assigned the intellectual gravitas and cultural authority to educate adults".
A lot millennial writing consists on adults behaving like children and children acting as sage creatures "lecturing" adults. Greta Thunberg is just a symptom of that. !writecel gives us some pf the worst examples of "wise kids" tropes on media.
But Mr Hayward's argument has two flaws. One is that it is so grumpy. Why shouldn't adults dress up as comic-book characters, if they enjoy it? What is wrong with liking the "Wallace and Gromit" animated films? Being grown-up means taking responsibility for your actions; it does not mean only ever seeking fun in highbrow places.
Lmao, "Just let people enjoy things" journo version
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It's not surprising. Used to be you could get a real, actual job with a grade 6 education. High School prepared you for most other careers, and you were supposed to be raising children before your mid 20s. Now you cant even hope to get a job in most cases before you're 23.
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A lot of people will scream "get into the trades" but I've heard few success stories about them.
It has a toxic culture that's full of unrepentant buttholes (god forbid you're a woman)- however that implies you'll even get an apprenticeship for livable wages.
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Trades are all six figure salaries in America once you're past apprenticeship and are one of the few remaining fields where you can start a business without significant capital. If you're uneducated or lazy and end up on roofs in your 50s it's awful though yeah.
"Toxic culture" - they drink and do drugs and swear a lot.
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yeah check the median ages on trades. they don't pay you enough to live through the apprenticeship.
my buddy sent me a video once of a recruiter asking for young people to join the trades because the median age of his energy plant was 50 or so. My friend also informed he the recruiter had workplace harassment charges too
or you could legitimately lern2code
My buddy was telling me his boss (flooring) told him he was a waste of oxygen, a complete frickup and should kill himself because he made some minor errors.
I have no clue how you can work productively in that environment.
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I worked for a contractor pulling wire and installing hardware and other mule work for minimum wage. Apprentice was making maybe 30% more than me for bending and installing the pipes. Frick that shit.
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lol, sucks to be you. I made more than that as a kid doing that kind of work. Maybe you were in a union State?
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Well, I haven't done that in like 15 years.
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Sounds like a union problem tbh.
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I haven't seen a dime from my pention now that you mention it.
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SnapGPT will look back on this comment and laugh while former codecels are moaning about callouses in the dirt mines (all overthrown intelligentsia will be put to work mining dirt) (the dirt serves no purpose, but then, our benevolent roboverlords will reason, nor do those who once called themselves !codecels, so it is a fitting place for them)
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no, !codecels will be personal maintenance slaves and some times s*x slaves too
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Mystified by the delusion that the robots will not just repair themselves either in their own weird way or with the nanobots they create
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I use it every day to program at work, the only thing it's replacing is indian outsourcing teams (
please 
)
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what we have now is all it will ever be REAL LIFE ISNT LIKE A MOVIE I WILL ALWAYS BE RELEVANT
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It's a s*x thing.
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Do I have to learn Vietnamese from
@X or can I just fake broken english?
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the latter
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Arent you like a 6 foot 275lbs white
guy
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276
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You cut the boards to size and place them. Look Jose is even cutting them for you! I checked, they're correct. You can't put stuff on the ground properly? They're rectangles. It's the world's easiest jigsaw puzzle you piece of shit. I got one last job for you. How about you take that nailgun send it right through your fricking temple.
!r-slurs would such a pep talk effectively motivate you to do flooring more efficiently?
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I'll work overtime for free if you keep singing that sweet melody
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No
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College doesn't pay you at all during your undergrad, but if you study something worthwhile it's great.
The concept of a "livable wage" is mostly a meme; someone somewhere found a way to make it work for that wage. A free market will naturally find the cheapest acceptable inputs, including human labor, to make some output. Usually, that means a wage low enough so that only just enough people decide the deal is on the favorable end of their personal indifference price that they're willing to take it. It's why you need to negotiate higher for yourself, and why we're not wasting money and manpower convincing highly trained doctors to instead become a cab driver, or why the doctor's wages aren't so high that we overproduce doctors and underproduce cab drivers.
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You tell your boss to suck your chode and you leave him in the middle of a gigantic project to go work elsewhere.
My last boss said he will fight me if he ever sees me again and to this day I keep an eye out for him at Costco so I can tool that cute twink
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Will not offer the long term job security and low barrier to entry that it has in the past for much longer with automation and
and most people aren't 
to find it a desirable career. I use a lot of Excel and that's bad enough, I hate being at my computer all day and plan to transition 
fields when we return to the USA.
What part of
was unclear? I'm not saying it's "good" but for a lot of men that's an easier environment than having 
HRcels 
at you about whatever the DEI topic du jour of the week is.
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I keep hearing that but I'm oft appalled at the understanding people have of tech. I posted it a few times but I was talking to a senior dev who didn't know what a "Certificate Authority" was. You can hire a lot of jeets to throw around tickets but the tickets need to be solved at some point.
I'm not sure if anything is unclear. Perhaps verbal abuse works for some people, but I don't think verbal abuse + low wages is a winning combo.
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STEM is insanely hot in the US right now and will continue to be for the foreseeable future, especially for CS-cels and Software Engineers. Seriously, the salaries are crazy high when compared with just everywhere else in the world.
AI is promising but the industry is overhyped and I wouldn't be surprised by a new AI winter.
I would still love an AI integrated software for structural analysis.
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Did you mean to reply to me cause I think we're in agreement.
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Yes, it's a circlejerk
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Honestly "AI will replace developers" is a cope. AI has some hard limits on the reasoning it can do, and AI's dirty secret is that it just doesn't scale as exponentially as other tech given more resources. It'll keep getting better, but it'll get better slower until it reaches a meh-tier asymptote.
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I said it will cool entry level position growth at a point in time sooner than
will be getting CS degrees. 
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What percentage of men who'd enter the trades do you think have the level of patience and
to be the ones actually solving tickets? And my other point was automation is already taking away some of the entry level positions. I have a family member whose role is automating server maintenance code and he's not as optimistic about the future for lower level codecels as you seem to be.
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I don't think they are entering the trades, I think they're working service jobs or something like warehouse/logistics jobs.
The whole point of DevOps was it was supposed to automate out the server jannies. But were still here for some reason
The fact is there's a server in every business and it needs to have its lifecycle managed.
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So to clarify your position here, you see a bunch of
as having bright futures in tech? 
Trades have a significant lower educational/IQ barrier to entry without requiring a 4 year degree.
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Be Asian or poor.
@timmy_blueballs stand with Israel.
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Your buddy sounds like a pansy who lies about others in order to cover up his own insufficiencies.
This is utter nonsense unless "trades" is 90% composed of barista jobs.
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doesn't werk unless you have a compsci degree which if you don't have already will be worthless since a bunch of zoomers got meme'd into it.
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Stop being a kitty
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That shit sounds hilarious. If I had the capital and training to start my own plumbing or electrical contracting gig I would in a heartbeat. I'm decent at senior-level coding but I like fixing things more than being a visionary
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"Toxic culture" This site truly can't escape the fact that its formed by redditors.
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It's a case by case thing. Personally I cannot work with people so trades suits me fine.
Before the cost of living was fricked in leafland you could support yourself on most apprentice wages. Even now most apprenticeship's pay well above minimum. Added benefit in many trades is a company vehicle, the health insurance and pensions now outpace white collar too.
Some trades are essentially for felons: bricklaying, tile, roofing, drywalling and landscaping most commonly. Those ones are rougher and you get worked like a dog. The more skilled trades like plumbing, HVAC, millwright and electrical are much more relaxed.
The culture really depends on who you work for and places are a lot more PC now than before.
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My brother took the trade route, can barely read or spell, spent a few decades framing houses and made a lot of money doing that, but now he's a grumpy butthole with a sore back, and hearing problems, who desperately wants to do anything else with his life as his body gradually breaks down. I went to college, accumulated a bunch of debt, spent a while aggressively repaying that debt while doing miserable entry and mid level work and only now start to see a salary that justifies all the bullshit leading up to here. I'll probably be wiped out by AI or some financial collapse, and he'll just keep building houses and making money until his body gives out fully.
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I've heard and met a quite a few success stories among tradies. A "Mestre de Obras" who now runs his own construction company, a former metal-worker who now owns it's metallurgy company (works as a contractor) and who knows much more about metallic structure design than junior engineers such as myself or my architect colleagues.
Of course, there's a survival bias there. They are both very capable men who simply didn't have the opportunity to go to college when they were young.
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The quiet rule of the trades is :
first 6 months they are going too use you as the potty paper of the group until a new guy comes in then he is you're replacement. Somehow none of them are able too understand that outside of the trades people are able too work as groups of people on the same team without using each other as amusements the first few months.
@timmy_blueballs stand with Israel.
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The biggest trade problem is nobody in the trades who is any good hires an apprentice.
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Do you work in the trades?
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No, I'm a hermitmaxxing codecel
My lineman friend
makes mega bank tho, I'd be jealous 
if I didn't have the perk of not wearing pants 
all the time
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Fricking grocery store Deli positions would ghost me and I've got two years experience in customer service and a food handlers.
Frick this gay earth
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If you go to a 4-year college/university after high school you'll graduate and get your first job at 21. That's assuming you had no summer internships. And no jobs in high school.
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!r-slurs one of us
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thats right?
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Aren't most freshmen 17 when they start? Unless they were held back a year.
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You can get college done in 3 years if you dont frick around
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Yeah but that doesn't support my argument
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I'd say 22/23 is pretty common for first "career" job. I knew many people who worked basic jobs out of college while networking/job hunting.
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Yeah I do too. Shit I know people who didn't get one until like 30.
But most of my classmates got jobs fairly soon after graduation. Especially the ones that did internships during their summer breaks. In fact most had jobs lined up before they even graduated, although I'll admit I didn't have that myself.
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