To discuss your weekly readings of books, textbooks and papers.
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My podcaster finished up the Book of Mormon and is going through the Pearl of Great Price and just finished the Kolob chapter.
He said it's the craziest thing he's ever heard of as a serious religious belief.
He said he could believe that God turned Jews black to invent the Indians. He said he could believe in wooden submarines full of elephants and bees crossing the ocean after the tower of Babel.
But Kolob is too crazy. He loved it.
!christians !atheists !mormons !lutherans !calvinists and I guess you too !Islam have fun with that one
You can read this for free on the official Mormon home page
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/abr/1?lang=eng
!macacos I'm sure it's in Pocho too
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Oh dang, what's that from?
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Y'know how Mormons believe Jews came from the Levant, made it to America, had Jesus visit, and later became Native Americans? Well the father dude who came brought with him two sons, one named Nephi and the other Laman. There were others but they aren't important. Basically Nephi is a virtuous good person whereas Laman is a non virtuous evil person. Eventually they have children, and those children follow the same virtue vs nonvirtue shtick. The Lamanites build pyramids and the Nephites are good jews. Eventually the Lamanites' skin darkens because if you have dark skin you're evil and light skin you're good. They fight a shit ton, with great million large armies (note we have never found any artifact from either). Sometimes the Lamanites are the good guys, in which case their skin lightens, and sometimes the Nephites are the bad guys, where their skin darkens. But eventually the evil Lamanites finally win, killing off all the Nephites. The last dude (son of Mormon) buries the book of mormon, a golden book in hieroglyphics of the whole story, then dies. The lamanites become indians. Later Mormons would claim that if Indians converted to Mormonism they'd become white like the nephites. !mormons !christians
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Oh I meant the pic, but that's also interesting.
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Tom Lea, he was a war artist in WW2 and I think a lot of it before this piece was pretty sanitized. Then after a specific battle he witnessed it completely changed his style, making it a lot darker, gritty, and more of that war is heck feeling.
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I think the Nephites would have had that tech since they were White and Industrious and Settled unlike those darkies who wore no clothes and lived in the forest and ate raw meat.
But I'd bet it was more likely the Jaredites who were described as having chariots.
Or maybe both idk.
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Alma 20:6 and Alma 18:10, seems they both had them unless I'm misreading
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I can't be assed. You're probably right if you've got the ref.
The descriptive war chapters were the podcaster'a fave parts.
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Thoughts on the lamanites?
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They're murderers, they're male feminists and some(Anti-Nephi-Lehies), I assume, are good people
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Make a bullet point summary of everything they believe
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Okay but over on /h/ReformationOfDrama
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No
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Read Wallace Stegner's Mormon Country. I've shilled it here before, but it's probably the essential accessible serious work about Mormon culture and the colonization of Utah, written by an SLC gentile at a time when there were still people alive who remembered the territorial days.
People always get hung up on the Mormons' goofy beliefs and overlook how strange and interesting their history is.
In the late 19th century they convinced a bunch of native Hawaiians to move to Utah and had Hawaiian colonies established in the southern part of the state. They almost all died from disease and the winters, but holy shit what a crazy thing to agree to if all you've known is grass skirts and life in the tropics.
And their initial success in Hawaii was largely due to a ridiculously persuasive English carpetbagger whi personally convinced Brigham Young that the islands could become their second Zion and that he should be in charge. So he moved out, established a cult of personality, sold church positions for cash, and lived like a king, feasting on kalua pork and Polynesian kitty for years until some new missionaries showed up and snitched on him.
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I was Elder Price once upon a time
I AM Mormon Country
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Them neighbors believe in heaven being your own planet lmao.
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https://rdrama.net/post/178659/when-ann-frank-got-dunked-on
Here's a full explanation in cartoon form
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Sorta, but lacking in specificity.
as children of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, we are meant to grow up and eventually be like our parents and do what they did
sidebar !Mormons used to explicitly mention both parents in their Sunday school lesson manual before 2000, until they kicked Mom down the well like The Ring. They switched the verbiage to just singular Heavenly Father. "He and She" became "He." "They created us" became "He created us."
Still the goal is that you eventually get to create your own universe, not your own planet.
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Holy moly does this count as Polytheism?
Is... Is Mormonism just a spiritual multi-level market scheme?
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I have made these statement aloud decades ago, and this is me being a former believer.
You can make your own call for Polytheism if you want to. The classical Polytheism is that there are several city-states who each worship their own local God, and somehow a region creates a pantheon, and the primacy of the Father-God emerged and sometimes changes.
!Mormons are explicitly non-Trinitarians.
Elohim (God The Father) is The Father that Jesus always prays and refers to
Jehovah is Pre-Birth Jesus, who is also the God of the Old Testament, who also calls himself The Father and The Son Who Are One God, but according to Mormons they are totally separate beings.
The Holy Ghost, also a full God, but through a contradiction of how Mormons define Gods, cannot be a God.
A God is a formal mortal who started off as a spirit who was sent to a planet to inhabit a body, went through life and overcame trials, repented of sins, and ultimately was chosen to become a full God like his/her Father God.
The Holy Ghost doesn't have a body but is considered a God like Jesus but doesn't meet the requirements, so just shut up about it.
To answer your questions:
1. It's not standard Polytheism, but rather its own flavor.
2. Yes, it is a multi-level-marketing aka pyramid scheme. Of which 90% originate in Utah. But also -- !Christians take note -- this changes the paradigm of going to heaven from an individual event to a team sport. That is to say, if your parents, spouse, or children ever decide to not be Mormon anymore, it ruins your ability to get into Top Mormon Heaven and become a God according to the rules.
You won't have the ability to drown the entire human race and puppies that you created in a fit of anger that you knew was going to happen anyway and could have prevented from happening if you were just a little bit more omniscient. !atheists
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They also don't like to talk about the whole your own universe, but will mention it begrudgingly if you ask, same with the Heavenly Mother shtick. They just make it seem super reverent and that we don't know her name because we shouldn't talk about her just PLEASE SHUT UP ABOUT HER.
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I saw the musical recently and I like how 3 of the funny musical numbers are just "this is what Mormons actually believe"
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Those are all great gags, but the most important song of the play is "Sal Tlay Kasiti" when the girl sings about a magical world where everything is perfect.
The song reveals the limits of her imagination that the best she can perceive isn't a palace, but a hut thatched with gold.
She can't imagine a world without warlords. They exist, but they are nice!
There isn't a cure for all diseases, but there's a Red Cross on every corner.
It's actually pretty dark when you consider how ancient religions perceived heaven to their own cultural limitations.
As a former missionary, I could laugh at the obvious, but had to be ashamed at the implications.
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It's why the musical works. It's funny on the surface but a lot of the jokes cut really deep. Someone singing about the utopia of salt lake city is funny at first until you pay attention to what she's saying. Making It Up Again is similar, he has to operate within the confines of how awful life is for them, they can't r*pe babies they have to r*pe frogs instead.
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I have a BOM Musical hat and a r*pe frog plush toy from when I went.
I guess the converse would be "Has a Diga Eebowai" when the Ugandans are complaining about their problems -- warlords, famine, forced female circumcision, AIDS -- and the missionaries are trying to relate about the plane being crowded and the bus being late.
It was a double layer "buddy film" -- devout missionary vs idiot missionary, suburban Utahns vs Ugandans.
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Name of the podcast btw?
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