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Is psychology vague? Pyschologycels :marseycope: :marseyseethe: about the Replication Crisis

https://old.reddit.com/r/AcademicPsychology/comments/1dhv4ll/is_psychology_a_vague_subject_and_hard_to/

								

								

It's less vague than sociology

Even psychologycels dunk on sociologycels :#marseydunkon:

Psychology is actually an extremely rigorous science, it's usually often more specific and rigorous than other fields of research because we're measuring intangible things such as personality traits and feelings and our subjects are real people. This means we have to consistently go above and beyond to prove things and take into consideration ethics at every step in the study design process.

"Rigorous" is a charitable term when replicability rates in social psychology are roughly 20-30% and in cognitive psychology are approach 50%

I also question the premise whether there is some more methodological rigor because of studying intangible things. That may be the case for those who study measurement and psychometrics, like personality psychologists. But there are an astounding number of psychology papers using unreliable and non valid measures to study intangible constructs which is part of the replicability crisis: the field is not more rigorous by virtue of studying something complex if it often doesn't do it well and many don't care about valid measurement

I'm very skeptical that this is a psychology problem, rather than a "science is hard" problem. To my knowledge very few fields have undertaken reproducibility studies to the extent that psychology has (but if I'm mistaken very happy to be proven otherwise!). So just because replication rates look bad for psychology doesn't mean it is less rigorous than other sciences.

Once example I'm aware of: A replicability project for cancer biology replicated 40% of the original effects https://www.cos.io/rpcb

!ifrickinglovescience !physics !biology how's the Replication Crisis affecting you guys?

https://old.reddit.com/r/AcademicPsychology/comments/1clwb0d/is_there_a_replication_crisis_still_2023_and_2024/

The replication "crisis" is part of the nature of statistical testing. Read "the nature of p." All branches of science have a replication "crisis" and medicine was once of the first to angst over it, not psych.

Do you have an author or link for "the nature of p"?

Not off the top of my head, but this touches on the same issues. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13164-018-0421-4

https://www.nature.com/articles/nmeth.2698

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/opinion/psychology-is-not-in-crisis.html

The basic idea is that a failure to reproduce doesn't mean the theory is wrong, and reproduction doesn't mean it is right. It just changes our perception of the strength of the effect and should motivate us to consider the likelihood that the effect is influenced by unexplored boundary conditions or moderators. We have learned so much and are able to do so many more things these days. Seems odd to say the field is in a crisis. It is like watching a bmw owner drive his car to the junk yard because the engine's timing is off and demand they crush it into a cube.

:#pepemath: :#marseymath:

95
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failure to reproduce doesn't mean the theory is wrong, and reproduction doesn't mean it is right.

!ifrickinglovescience please fact check

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17240738311842127.webp

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17240738314352274.webp

:#mjlol:


https://i.rdrama.net/images/17235685217415228.webp

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He's not denying the value of reproducibility, he's just saying that a single instance of reproduction succeeding or failing is not a guarantee. But he's misapplied that argument to this scenario because you don't need a guarantee when you're talking about the rate of reproducibility across multiple findings.

But anyway psychology is still ahead of sociology on this because you have one field where 40% of stuff reproduces and another field where maybe 10% of stuff reproduces and nobody even agrees on what constitutes a reproduction. Instead sociology at its best is more like a catalog of phenomena with apparent :marseynoooticer: connections.

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If you don't subject your ideas to test in order to falsify or verify them then all you have is dogma.

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Falsifiability is a meme. You can always pick whether the result actually falsifies your thesis or some auxillary assumption.

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i've written my thesis in a social science and the way it works you come up with your conclusion and then work your way backwards towards it

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Abstract: You can get big wins in rDrama casino

Introduction: I wrote this part with ChatGPT

Methods: I looked at @carpathianflorist's winning spree, juxtaposed them with @Goomble

Results: Goomble is a fricking r-slur, and if you radiate BDE like carp you win

Discussion: This is all because of BDE. Do YOU have BDE?

References: 9/10 gamblers agree

GOOMBLE IT ALL AWAY FOR BIG WINS !slots800

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!goomblers

:#marseyhesright:

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!slots 1000

!goomblers hot thread

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17240756091836767.webp

Boeing goin up i guess

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!slotsmb 5000

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!slotsmb 5000

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!slots300

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https://media.tenor.com/TMWh6IWlGT4AAAAx/4chan-dubs.webp

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Holy shit REPLICATED

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!slots200

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!slots300

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!slots400

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Foolproof

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GOOD science

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Why is this allowed? Last time I checked they teach against confirmation bias in high school. But when you get to higher education it becomes the norm and is never challenged?

:marseydeadinside:

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A lot of r-sluration in higher ed can be placed on the emphasis on writing your thesis on an 'original idea.'

So instead of something sensible, like writing your thesis on a detailed analysis of a complex subject to demonstrate mastery, people work overtime finding an obscure angle to tackle an even more obscure issue. To do this you, well, have to work backwards.

Step one: Come up with an 'original thesis.'

Step two: Confront the fact nobody has done the thesis before not because you're a genius, but because it's probably wrong

Step three: Figure out how to aggressively bullshit and work backwards so your thesis can still turn out appearing like it had merit. Write simple ideas in the most convoluted way possible to avoid scrutiny and remind the higher ups you're part of the club (and that failing you would be rude).

Step four: Stare at it all for so long that you eventually convince yourself your own bs actually has merit (it does not) and teach it to undergrads

Step five: Graduate and turn further exploration of your bs into two books and forty articles. Your idiocy is now 'known fact.' It is still idiocy and can never be replicated.

Congrats, now you know how academia works and why it's so r-slurred.

Edit: It's also how you can end up with professors who are only really knowledgeable in niche areas of their subject, and seem to work every single class around (blank) theory—because it's all they've studied in sincere depth.

And, it's also why idiotic new trends take hold so deeply and so fast in academia. A new theory that provides a new angle to write papers on will be jumped on hard whether or not it's stupid, simply because it's novel and can provide previously unwritten thesis topics.

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This is a really long way of saying you don't frick.

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Just because they teach it in school doesn't mean people will agree. That's especially true in a field full of foids who don't understand the scientific process at all and just want to confirm their headcanon.

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The people who understand the scientific process the least are STEMcels

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Because "I went and researched X and it was super boring and nothing came from it" is not a great paper.

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because if we don't prove our conclusions with science then fascism wins.

jewish lives matter btw

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When u was in school their seemed to be a schism occuring in the field between the appropriateness or using qualitative vs quantitative methods in the humanities and social sciences. But i had professors telling rooms full of students to never trust quantitative research i this field. The stats are going to be useless or manipulated to prove a thesis, much like you are saying. Work backwards

At least with qualitative studies, you can say these specific people at this specific time believe or do this specific thing. Its subject to change, we offer a snapshot of reality. We aren't seeking truths, just an understanding of this moment.

I've also read papers from professors who clearly cooked their numbers, or tried to handwave their weak correlations as no big deal, and were actually totes proving their point, when they were doing the opposite.

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One of the more curious things I've :marseynoooticer: with STEMcels across disciplines is that they point out the many flaws in the social sciences yet still just end up accepting 99% of it at face value just like most people do.

https://media.tenor.com/Ctt1khAp684AAAAx/whats-up-with-that-neil-degrasse-tyson.webp

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Biologycells often can't even consistently reproduce published results from their own group if they happened to move into a different building.

!biology start coping about this NOW

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https://i.rdrama.net/images/17240855676387355.webp

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17240855674338973.webp

!nooticers What do psychology and biology have in common? What are the replication rates like in neuroscience?? :#marseythonk:

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>Computer Science

>57% male

Ew, that means it is 43% female

:#marseysad:


:#marseydisintegrate: :!#marseyflamewar::space::!marseyagree:

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I bet it's lower due to

:#marseytrain2:

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This has to be either super recent or wrong because these percentages do NOT bear out when you're working in the field ime.

t. usually the only foid in the room at work

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Wtf is this graph.

I had to take four graduate-level labs to graduate with a BS in chem and take a comprehensive exam.

Among 40 senior lab students at any time there were only 4-8 foids, most of them as "teaching science" majors. They griped that the advisor told them to just major in chemistry so that they could pursue the field if they got sick of teaching children about what water was.

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Among 40 senior lab students at any time there were only 4-8 foids, most of them as "teaching science" majors

I don't know how it is in the US, but in my uni in macacoland foids made up the majority of biochemistry students. Then other undergrad programs like regular chemistry were mixed kind of 50/50 and Chemical Engineering were mostly moids.

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@Corinthian to address your concerns, the sciences are continually held hostage by domineering politics.

My BIO 101 prof, the first day, drew the chemical equation of water into wine and drew an X through it.

H2O =X=> C2H6O

He said that this isn't a legitimate chemical reaction, and that miracles exist as one-off events. He said that we were here to talk about the evidence and not the exception of miracles.

Many American scientists have to make this address in their publications and courses to ward off the Evangelicals.

Likewise, they have started attaching similar statements in their textbooks and lectures to ward off the Transgender Lobby.

Example: "Most multicellular plant and animal life has evolved into two discreet sexes which are required engage in reproduction. However some people identify as a member of the opposite s*x."

!chuds !transphobes this is what :!marseytrain:s mean when they say "your textbook is outdated." This is the only addition.

Biology has the largest error bars of the sciences due to the hard physical things it studies -- and it does attempt to account for averages across billions of non-sentient self-repicators.

I know a biology major and he had to take Calc 1-3 (differential, integral, gradient) and Ordinary Differential Equations (something about deriving e that I passed a test on, and population growth stuff) and is like smart and stuff.

Well and also some zoologists and biochemists and other nerds.

!ifrickinglovescience !biology !chemistry !mathematics

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My BIO 101 prof, the first day, drew the chemical equation of water into wine and drew an X through it.

Did you attend the BYU?

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Darn, you're really mad over this, but thanks for the effort you put into typing that all out! Sadly I won't read it all.

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@KatserKitty1987 didn't you just debooonk that?

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My point was more so much garbage research is published that i wouldnt be shocked if its unreplicatable. With Psychology the issue was key, foundational studies and schools of thought were unreplicatable not just that a high percentage of research is unreplicatable.

consistently reproduce published results from their own group if they happened to move into a different building.

idk what this means. I assume hes saying a micrbiologist couldnt replicate results from a wheat biologist which is just a nonsensical argument. I mean yeah youd want an expert in the field to replicate and confirm studies. Everyone cant know everything and I dont see why thats a problem.If you think you are an expert in everything you are just being fooled.

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Ask any older PI who's moved with his lab a few times and they are all going to tell you that established protocols stop working as well, cells behave differently, some published results can't be replicated anymore. You should know this. I'm talking about the same people doing the same experiments (often with the same equipment).

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  • CREAMY_DOG_ORGASM : I wanna contribute to this but I'm banned. Can you buy me an unban award please

Are you implying that physically moving a lab will cause cells to act differently? Biological randomness is 100% a thing so you cant expect batches of cells to have come variation. There is also always human error and machine error. On top of differences between Ive done PCR in multiple labs and it has always worked. Who knows maybe you are right and when im older getting bacteria to express genes via a plasmid wont work anymore and ill eat my hat that it was always the sacred architecture of building which made experiments work. Ive worked with multiple older PIS who did not have this issue and they were doing shit like making new primers. Old primers still continued to work.

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Are you implying that physically moving a lab will cause cells to act differently?

It does, yea. There are like a billion variables that change with it that usually get completely ignored in biological experiments (in all empirical sciences, really).

On top of differences between Ive done PCR in multiple labs and it has always worked.

Yea, obviously, PCR and plasmid expression still work, just like the microwave still warms up your food and the coffee machine still brews coffee. But even so, if you did a detailed analysis, you'd see a difference even with standard methods.

Ive worked with multiple older PIS who did not have this issue

Ask them. They did. At the very least they have stories like "yea we needed to express protein X for 1 hour longer to get our phenotype lol"

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He's right when it comes to mammalian cells that they're super sensitive to very small things. Everyone knows that you're need to do your experiments on the same day relative to your split cycle every week, but also things like moving from a basement lab to a 2nd story one will change the results of uptake and cytotoxicity assays. It won't make things suddenly completely stop working, but it will noticeably change your EC50.

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  • CREAMY_DOG_ORGASM : Lol why are you coping so hard in this thread? Filtered by Calc?

There's many such cases. Impossible to debunk. STEMcels be coping.

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  • CREAMY_DOG_ORGASM : Oh well if you're a STEMcel hating on other STEMcels then that's fine

@uglyc*nt I don't know any biochemcel who's taken as many higher math courses as me. It is the INSIDE information I have that made me WAKE UP to the STEMcel menace.

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Gell Mann amnesia, I'm sure when you read a popular article about the bibble you could point out a thousand flaws but when the next pop article comes out about a subject you don't know, you'd probably go along with it. Plus, if there's anyone I'd put most stock in about psychology, it's the people who studied it for 10+ years. Even if they're wrong half the time, they've learned about the theories have already been proven wrong so at least they won't make those mistakes.

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!bookworms he referenced Michael Crichton (whom I love) and we have a historic first (?) upmarsey from maybe our biggest resident STEMcel atheist :marseybigbrain: towards the resident Christcel. :marseywholesome: :@feynmandidnothingwronglove::@feynmandidnothingwronglove::@feynmandidnothingwronglove:

We're about to sleep but I hope for further positive engagement after first taking time to acknowledge and celebrate this momentous occasion.

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biggest resident STEMcel atheist

oh stop it you:marseyshy3:

i accept the whole non-overlapping magisteria will always upmarsey a good comment, be it christcel or what have you:@corinthianlove::@corinthianlove::@corinthianlove:

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I do appreciate your eclectic references and you've encouraged me to revisit a few subjects I hadn't touched since undergrad.

>NOMA

One of my best childhood friends is a descendant of the the Gould family. :marseyembrace:

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Who thinks Feynman did something wrong?

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Gell Mann himself lol thought that while a brilliant physicist, he was preoccupied with generating anecdotes about himself which sounds a bit like feynmann tbh

also his second wife accused him of being an abusive commie obsessed with calculus :marseyautism:

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@FeynmanDidNothingWrong :marseysmughips: he joined a drum circle after taking a bunch of drugs.

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ketamine weed prob lsd, all in the effort of psychonautics and good fun

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I meant the drum circle part :marseysmug2: the drugs might even limit his moral culpability for such a gross transgression of etiquette.

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yet still just end up accepting 99% of it at face value just like most people do.

We generally don't. Hence many stemcels being chuds. (Excluding programming)

Many accept :marseyokay: their own personal psychology/sociology theories due to arrogance though.

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Low effort nerd trolling is going to neckbeard STEMcels, getting amazed by their IQ (they'll tell you, don't worry) and asking them if they believe there are certain reliable ways of measuring it and inferring characteristics from it. If they say yes, force them to come up with an answer why they think psychology should not be a hard science equivalent to particle theory or nuclear engineering.

And then going to the STEMfails, telling them about how badly you were treated by stem people when you revealed you had an IQ of 73 but an EQ of 145. They will be instantly saying yes, IQ is racist, IQ is sexist etc. Then deliver the coup de grace by asking and pressing on about if IQ is so unreliable what makes EQ reliable. Why is an neurodivergent trait of pattern recognition being branded as racist when the racists are themselves low IQ and psychopaths are both low IQ and high EQ.

I can tag both the entire stem and non stem base of rdrama rn and they would still throw shit at each other even though literally the 3rd word of this shitpost was "trolling"

@nuclearshill could you please tag stemcels and sophistry underneath this post?

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!ifrickinglovescience !sophistry

:#marseyhesright: :#marseyhesfluffyyouknow:

IQ boast was always r-slurred, it means nothing without effort and most people obsessed with their IQs are either Mensatards or 110-120 IQ redditors/stemcels.

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It's worse than meaning nothing. If you actually consistently score >130 on properly administered IQ tests you have less of an excuse to be a failure in life.

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IQ indicates less about an individual, but group average IQ indicates a lot about larger groups of people.

Even on an individual level, IQ is a good predictor of job performance, ~50% correlation across many different kinds of tasks.

(in DEI countries it is illegal too use IQ scores in hiring decisions. jewish lives matter.)

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https://i.rdrama.net/images/17053964397685544.webp

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Based.

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>EQ

Fake and ableist.


:#marseydisintegrate: :!#marseyflamewar::space::!marseyagree:

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What's up with the EQ cope, do redditors use it? The times I heard about it irl they were talking in a context of socialization and networking, which makes me think high EQcels couldn't care less about EQ testing, let alone IQ.

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Yes, it's one of the standard "IQ is bullshit responses", but with the exception of spergs it correlates pretty much 1:1

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part of the issue with psychology is that several "hard" aspects of the field have been spun off into their own independent disciplines within most institutions (cognitive science, neuroscience, neuroanatomy, psychiatry, psychopharmacology etc.)

in some cases this division can have a logistically useful purpose, like separating the clinical practice of psychiatry and the research discipline of psychology. However, in other cases it just kind of cucks the psych department by leaving them with fewer resources

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The hard science of handing people questionnaires with vauge subjective questions

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Come on! They also have to fill an excel sheet with their questionaries answers and then apply some standard deviation formula from the Schaum's outline.

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It's less vague than sociology

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17240879426461947.webp

:#marseysmug3:

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  • timmy_blueballs : is a language discovered or invented. Math is just another language representing data as symbols

!mathematics was math invented or was it discovered?

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!mathematics and written language (!bookworms) are inventions derived from immediate necessity, and constantly developed through time to quantify and record how many of things there are for when a purpose arises.

  • How many fingers do I have? How many eyes do I have? Good thing I don't need to write that down because that's how many we all have of them.

  • How many sheep did I trade this year for chicken meat? Was the trade good, bad, or neutral? Better write that down on clay tablet contracts.

  • What are shapes? Let's draw lines and shit.

  • Do shapes relate to reality in any way? Let's write gay butt books like The Republic !sophistry.

  • What is the slope at any point of a defined curve? Let's write hella gay books like Principia Matematica !physics.

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Further proof STEMcels are absolute brainlet r-slurs jesus christ this hurt to read

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EPURR

SI

MUOVE!

:#speechbubble:

https://media.tenor.com/OuZFHIhYKFgAAAAx/brovius.webp

STEMcels !ifrickinglovescience will continue to

  • explain the past

  • describe the present

  • predict the future

!physics !chemistry !biology !engineering !atheists

!sophistry you guys are ok too

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What will our next soyence ping be about?

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miunno I think I'm gonna remake the gif with these subtitles to enhance the meme

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What about !geology or !paleontology?

I know there's !dinochads but !paleontology could cover other prehistoric animals like the Pleistocene megafauna. And other pre-historic living beings like prototaxites :marseymushroom:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototaxites

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What's your opinion? Is math invented or discovered

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Mathematics is the expression of immutable reality, hence it is discovered. The way we express it is invented (e.g. the base ten system, basic operators), but the very concept of 2+2=4 cannot be changed.

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BASED TEN !mathematics

https://media.tenor.com/yGOS_9FxD0kAAAAx/fingers-hands.webp

And holy shit, if you have a thing, but then you have another thing, then you have TWO THINGS.

Between doubling everything every time, versus how many fingers you have, you now create the Imperial vs Metric systems.

1 teaspoon x2 = tablespoon

1 tablespoon x2 = ¼ cup

1 ¼ cup x2 = ½ cup

½ x2 = cup

1 cup x2 = pint

1 pint x2 = quart

1 quart x2 = ½ gallon

½ gallon x2 = gallon

Imperial is a doubling system

Metrics is a counting your fingers system

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https://i.rdrama.net/images/17240951640368612.webp

:#marseybrainlet:

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Well yes, that was a test from Jesus, and you passed. !christians

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Invented. Math is a language created to describe real principles of the natural world. The principles described exist independent of us, but the language we use to understand them does not.

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It's less vague than sociology

Lol that bar is laying on the floor

Psychology is actually an extremely rigorous science, it's usually often more specific and rigorous than other fields

Lol. Lmao, even.

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I diagnose you with Ligma

:#marseyfreud:

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I wouldn't doubt a large portion of some biology research being unreplicateable due to people pooping out shoddy research. The issue with psychology is that it was key studies that were unreplicatble stuff cited thousands of times which served as the basis for field. If biology was like psychology wed have a whole school of biology that proteins are the reproductive molecule

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Yeah. Social sciences are unfalsifiable. In biology, either the medicine/operation/chemistry works or it doesn't. Even if a shoddy paper comes out, eventually the goal is to bring a product to market using the theory of the paper. If nothing ever comes of it, then it's just forgotten forever without being added to the body of knowledge. :marseyshrug:

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science is when you pop out things to consoome

:marseysoylentgrin:

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Yes

:marseygigachadtalking:

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The human mind is complex and hard to understand

Not like math or quantum mechanics.

I could master those but em... I chose something harder instead.

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Getting a graduate degree in psychology seems absolutely worthless. Undergrad too, I guess it's better than no degree and can land you a fake email job somewhere at least

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The hard science of psychology is neuroscience. If you think disorders are just a misconfiguration of a brains state, only neuroscience in the future will lead to predictions based on that internal system. Where psychology looks at the symptoms and tries to treat the disease retroactively

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Psychology is actually an extremely rigorous science,

Lol, lmao even


:!marseybooba:

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Psychologist = :marseychonkerfoidpuke:

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I'm very skeptical that this is a psychology problem, rather than a "science is hard" problem.

>psychology

>science

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