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Is psychology vague? Pyschologycels :marseycope: :marseyseethe: about the Replication Crisis

https://old.reddit.com/r/AcademicPsychology/comments/1dhv4ll/is_psychology_a_vague_subject_and_hard_to/

								

								

It's less vague than sociology

Even psychologycels dunk on sociologycels :#marseydunkon:

Psychology is actually an extremely rigorous science, it's usually often more specific and rigorous than other fields of research because we're measuring intangible things such as personality traits and feelings and our subjects are real people. This means we have to consistently go above and beyond to prove things and take into consideration ethics at every step in the study design process.

"Rigorous" is a charitable term when replicability rates in social psychology are roughly 20-30% and in cognitive psychology are approach 50%

I also question the premise whether there is some more methodological rigor because of studying intangible things. That may be the case for those who study measurement and psychometrics, like personality psychologists. But there are an astounding number of psychology papers using unreliable and non valid measures to study intangible constructs which is part of the replicability crisis: the field is not more rigorous by virtue of studying something complex if it often doesn't do it well and many don't care about valid measurement

I'm very skeptical that this is a psychology problem, rather than a "science is hard" problem. To my knowledge very few fields have undertaken reproducibility studies to the extent that psychology has (but if I'm mistaken very happy to be proven otherwise!). So just because replication rates look bad for psychology doesn't mean it is less rigorous than other sciences.

Once example I'm aware of: A replicability project for cancer biology replicated 40% of the original effects https://www.cos.io/rpcb

!ifrickinglovescience !physics !biology how's the Replication Crisis affecting you guys?

https://old.reddit.com/r/AcademicPsychology/comments/1clwb0d/is_there_a_replication_crisis_still_2023_and_2024/

The replication "crisis" is part of the nature of statistical testing. Read "the nature of p." All branches of science have a replication "crisis" and medicine was once of the first to angst over it, not psych.

Do you have an author or link for "the nature of p"?

Not off the top of my head, but this touches on the same issues. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13164-018-0421-4

https://www.nature.com/articles/nmeth.2698

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/opinion/psychology-is-not-in-crisis.html

The basic idea is that a failure to reproduce doesn't mean the theory is wrong, and reproduction doesn't mean it is right. It just changes our perception of the strength of the effect and should motivate us to consider the likelihood that the effect is influenced by unexplored boundary conditions or moderators. We have learned so much and are able to do so many more things these days. Seems odd to say the field is in a crisis. It is like watching a bmw owner drive his car to the junk yard because the engine's timing is off and demand they crush it into a cube.

:#pepemath: :#marseymath:

95
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One of the more curious things I've :marseynoooticer: with STEMcels across disciplines is that they point out the many flaws in the social sciences yet still just end up accepting 99% of it at face value just like most people do.

https://media.tenor.com/Ctt1khAp684AAAAx/whats-up-with-that-neil-degrasse-tyson.webp

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Biologycells often can't even consistently reproduce published results from their own group if they happened to move into a different building.

!biology start coping about this NOW

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@Corinthian to address your concerns, the sciences are continually held hostage by domineering politics.

My BIO 101 prof, the first day, drew the chemical equation of water into wine and drew an X through it.

H2O =X=> C2H6O

He said that this isn't a legitimate chemical reaction, and that miracles exist as one-off events. He said that we were here to talk about the evidence and not the exception of miracles.

Many American scientists have to make this address in their publications and courses to ward off the Evangelicals.

Likewise, they have started attaching similar statements in their textbooks and lectures to ward off the Transgender Lobby.

Example: "Most multicellular plant and animal life has evolved into two discreet sexes which are required engage in reproduction. However some people identify as a member of the opposite s*x."

!chuds !transphobes this is what :!marseytrain:s mean when they say "your textbook is outdated." This is the only addition.

Biology has the largest error bars of the sciences due to the hard physical things it studies -- and it does attempt to account for averages across billions of non-sentient self-repicators.

I know a biology major and he had to take Calc 1-3 (differential, integral, gradient) and Ordinary Differential Equations (something about deriving e that I passed a test on, and population growth stuff) and is like smart and stuff.

Well and also some zoologists and biochemists and other nerds.

!ifrickinglovescience !biology !chemistry !mathematics

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My BIO 101 prof, the first day, drew the chemical equation of water into wine and drew an X through it.

Did you attend the BYU?

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Darn, you're really mad over this, but thanks for the effort you put into typing that all out! Sadly I won't read it all.

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https://i.rdrama.net/images/17240855676387355.webp

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17240855674338973.webp

!nooticers What do psychology and biology have in common? What are the replication rates like in neuroscience?? :#marseythonk:

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>Computer Science

>57% male

Ew, that means it is 43% female

:#marseysad:


:#marseydisintegrate: :!#marseyflamewar::space::!marseyagree:

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I bet it's lower due to

:#marseytrain2:

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This has to be either super recent or wrong because these percentages do NOT bear out when you're working in the field ime.

t. usually the only foid in the room at work

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Wtf is this graph.

I had to take four graduate-level labs to graduate with a BS in chem and take a comprehensive exam.

Among 40 senior lab students at any time there were only 4-8 foids, most of them as "teaching science" majors. They griped that the advisor told them to just major in chemistry so that they could pursue the field if they got sick of teaching children about what water was.

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Among 40 senior lab students at any time there were only 4-8 foids, most of them as "teaching science" majors

I don't know how it is in the US, but in my uni in macacoland foids made up the majority of biochemistry students. Then other undergrad programs like regular chemistry were mixed kind of 50/50 and Chemical Engineering were mostly moids.

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@KatserKitty1987 didn't you just debooonk that?

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My point was more so much garbage research is published that i wouldnt be shocked if its unreplicatable. With Psychology the issue was key, foundational studies and schools of thought were unreplicatable not just that a high percentage of research is unreplicatable.

consistently reproduce published results from their own group if they happened to move into a different building.

idk what this means. I assume hes saying a micrbiologist couldnt replicate results from a wheat biologist which is just a nonsensical argument. I mean yeah youd want an expert in the field to replicate and confirm studies. Everyone cant know everything and I dont see why thats a problem.If you think you are an expert in everything you are just being fooled.

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Ask any older PI who's moved with his lab a few times and they are all going to tell you that established protocols stop working as well, cells behave differently, some published results can't be replicated anymore. You should know this. I'm talking about the same people doing the same experiments (often with the same equipment).

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  • CREAMY_DOG_ORGASM : I wanna contribute to this but I'm banned. Can you buy me an unban award please

Are you implying that physically moving a lab will cause cells to act differently? Biological randomness is 100% a thing so you cant expect batches of cells to have come variation. There is also always human error and machine error. On top of differences between Ive done PCR in multiple labs and it has always worked. Who knows maybe you are right and when im older getting bacteria to express genes via a plasmid wont work anymore and ill eat my hat that it was always the sacred architecture of building which made experiments work. Ive worked with multiple older PIS who did not have this issue and they were doing shit like making new primers. Old primers still continued to work.

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Are you implying that physically moving a lab will cause cells to act differently?

It does, yea. There are like a billion variables that change with it that usually get completely ignored in biological experiments (in all empirical sciences, really).

On top of differences between Ive done PCR in multiple labs and it has always worked.

Yea, obviously, PCR and plasmid expression still work, just like the microwave still warms up your food and the coffee machine still brews coffee. But even so, if you did a detailed analysis, you'd see a difference even with standard methods.

Ive worked with multiple older PIS who did not have this issue

Ask them. They did. At the very least they have stories like "yea we needed to express protein X for 1 hour longer to get our phenotype lol"

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He's right when it comes to mammalian cells that they're super sensitive to very small things. Everyone knows that you're need to do your experiments on the same day relative to your split cycle every week, but also things like moving from a basement lab to a 2nd story one will change the results of uptake and cytotoxicity assays. It won't make things suddenly completely stop working, but it will noticeably change your EC50.

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  • CREAMY_DOG_ORGASM : Lol why are you coping so hard in this thread? Filtered by Calc?

There's many such cases. Impossible to debunk. STEMcels be coping.

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  • CREAMY_DOG_ORGASM : Oh well if you're a STEMcel hating on other STEMcels then that's fine

@uglyc*nt I don't know any biochemcel who's taken as many higher math courses as me. It is the INSIDE information I have that made me WAKE UP to the STEMcel menace.

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Gell Mann amnesia, I'm sure when you read a popular article about the bibble you could point out a thousand flaws but when the next pop article comes out about a subject you don't know, you'd probably go along with it. Plus, if there's anyone I'd put most stock in about psychology, it's the people who studied it for 10+ years. Even if they're wrong half the time, they've learned about the theories have already been proven wrong so at least they won't make those mistakes.

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!bookworms he referenced Michael Crichton (whom I love) and we have a historic first (?) upmarsey from maybe our biggest resident STEMcel atheist :marseybigbrain: towards the resident Christcel. :marseywholesome: :@feynmandidnothingwronglove::@feynmandidnothingwronglove::@feynmandidnothingwronglove:

We're about to sleep but I hope for further positive engagement after first taking time to acknowledge and celebrate this momentous occasion.

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biggest resident STEMcel atheist

oh stop it you:marseyshy3:

i accept the whole non-overlapping magisteria will always upmarsey a good comment, be it christcel or what have you:@corinthianlove::@corinthianlove::@corinthianlove:

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I do appreciate your eclectic references and you've encouraged me to revisit a few subjects I hadn't touched since undergrad.

>NOMA

One of my best childhood friends is a descendant of the the Gould family. :marseyembrace:

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Who thinks Feynman did something wrong?

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Gell Mann himself lol thought that while a brilliant physicist, he was preoccupied with generating anecdotes about himself which sounds a bit like feynmann tbh

also his second wife accused him of being an abusive commie obsessed with calculus :marseyautism:

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@FeynmanDidNothingWrong :marseysmughips: he joined a drum circle after taking a bunch of drugs.

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ketamine weed prob lsd, all in the effort of psychonautics and good fun

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I meant the drum circle part :marseysmug2: the drugs might even limit his moral culpability for such a gross transgression of etiquette.

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yet still just end up accepting 99% of it at face value just like most people do.

We generally don't. Hence many stemcels being chuds. (Excluding programming)

Many accept :marseyokay: their own personal psychology/sociology theories due to arrogance though.

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