America lowering their already low standards (nothing bad will come of this)
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Racist preconceptions that disregard black and brown bodies create this falsehood in minds of many.
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We ainβt ever making it to mars
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by "we" do you mean brown persons "educated" in government schools?
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if they only offered calculus at more schools of color, most bipox would pass calculus.
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You don't need to learn it in HS. You will need to learn it in college though, which is the point of the article.
The idea is that calculus as the capstone of secondary math education is a flawed concept, and while I disagree personally I think their argument isn't totally r-slurred. Most teens would be better off learning prob/stats, discrete math, or linear algebra. Honestly I think discrete math should be taught before calculus.
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Honestly some abstract reasoning could go a long way in improving math skills as well as boost critical thinking ability. Math in highschool is too often taught, here's the right way to do this. Don't deviate. Sure formulas and established knowledge is nice but you really need to let students explore and come up with some of the reasoning on their own.
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Yeah, how many kids who learn FOIL can actually multiply polynomials? I remember it being a big problem where other students were like "how do I foil this if there's more than two?!?"
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Don't even get me started. Foil is so r-slurred when you have the perfectly wonderful distributive property.
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God I haven't thought about FOIL since highschool. I feel so dumb no longer being able to do my AP math problems.
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MFs acting like they never heard of lattice multiplication
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I think the basic proofs content (understanding quantifiers, induction etc) that typically gets shoved into intro discrete math or freshman math major courses should be a required part of the high school curriculum for "advanced-track" students. Passing AP calculus should involve actually proving some theorems.
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probability and stats before calculus is very stupid because there's no way to explain anything related to a continuous probability distribution without the student knowing what integration is at bare minimum, unless the extent of the course is "here's the buttons you need to press on your calculator/R/etc to do a t-test"
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Yeah but most high schoolers don't even go on to calc. Because they're dumb.
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Ok, but we aren't talking about the dumb ones, we're talking about the advanced students that are trying to look good on applications to universities. There's no point teaching them r-slur-level stats when they'll just be forced to take real stats in college anyways, because most or all stem degrees have calc-based stats requirements. Better to let them skip part of the university calculus sequence.
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My HS had a course called PDM which was a combo of probability + discreet before you could take Calc.
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Sounds useful.
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Uh don't most people find discrete math and linear algebra to be harder than intro calculus?
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If they're r-slurred? Discrete math is super easy, and linear algebra isn't much harder.
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Linear algebra is harder than Cal 1. But that's not saying much. Cal 1 was a breeze.
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If discrete math and linear algebra are super easy then how the frick is basic calc too hard for advanced high school students?
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Kids are dum
Also the point is they just learn equations, and not the deeper concepts because high school teachers are bad. So it hurts them later, because they never really learned what they were supposed to.
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Itβs kind of true.
Im a month away from a degree in electrical engineering and mostly @MarkRippetoe just use Boolean algebra discrete math and differential equations that a computer solves. @MarkRippetoe have not taken an integral since this signal processing course that has literally 0 irl use for anyone who Iβve ever met
You would be much better served teaching the majority of Americans discrete math or something instead.
Trans lives matter too @MarkRippetoe so much please remove my chud award @robocopathianflorist @MarkRippetoe will follow you
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neighbor that's literally calculus
you still need to understand how they fundamentally work even if a computer solves them for you most of the time
i do agree that discrete math would be a lot more useful for the average non-stemcel tho
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YOU DONβT REALLY NEED TOO UNDERSTAND CALCULUS that well TOO DO A LAPLACE TRANSFORM ON A CIRCUIT.
Trans lives matter.
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Yeah but you need it to calculate voltage/current through a conductor or inductor. I feel like, logically, circuit analysis should be taught after understanding the characteristics of components.
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Nonsense, understanding is an impediment to faith
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@MarkRippetoe donβt think they ever taught that lmao.
We only learned about inductors/caps a when going over second order circuits, nth order circuits, phasers (dropped that exam) and transformers lmfao.
Didnβt touch a derivative or integral because @MarkRippetoe was too busy touching women and not the trans lives matter ones either
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Weird. I learned all that in basic EE circuits. And we used it again in linear circuits.
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isnt that just time domain/phaser/laplace stuff lmao.
Trans lives matter but @MarkRippetoe have never been asked about any of that in an interview
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Just because you don't use it doesn't mean it's not foundational knowledge for other fields. Saying "STEM people don't need to learn calculus" isn't true because you specifically didn't need it to get a job.
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actually r-slurred
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yes and number theory trans lives matter too sudokutards
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Hi @MarkRippetoe,
Your comment has been automatically removed because you forgot to include
trans lives matter
.Don't worry, we're here to help! We won't let you post or comment anything that doesn't express your love and acceptance towards the trans community. Feel free to resubmit your comment with
trans lives matter
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NGMI
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Isnβt that more linear algebra? Idk I only know FTs from learning the FFT algorithm
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SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS WAS LITERALLY THE LEAST USEFUL ECE CLASS IβVE TAKEN.
LITERALLY NEVER USED IT OUTSIDE OF THE SEMESTER @MarkRippetoe TOOK IT
Trans lives matter but discrete time z/fournier transforms / impulse responses donβt
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Consider becoming an electrician instead
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Im an embedded systems engineer.
@MarkRippetoe basically use discrete math and Boolean logic too program in assembly/C and thatβs it.
But keep thinking that you need too know how too do a discrete time fournier transform too get a job.
Trans lives matter but my signals and systems professors life doesnβt
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Embed deez nuts in yo mouf
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Sure you can just buy a PID controller but doesn't it appeal to your inner autist to design your own?!?
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Iβd rather touch a woman (not the trans lives matter kind) than touch a this book again
https://www.abebooks.com/Signals-Systems-2nd-Edition-Alan-Oppenheim/30868868381/bd?ref_=ps_nb_ggl_US_Shopp_Textbook&cm_mmc=ggl--US_Shopp_Textbook--product_id=COM9780138147570NEW-_-keyword=&gclid=Cj0KCQjw2cWgBhDYARIsALggUhp7SOpyoFQCJ4N4h2JSJ3zyaoP9FnSvpDntQ-Kp2FVgUI1bmx8yMsIaAj6aEALw_wcB
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You're a fake EE
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@MarkRippetoe have never met anyone who has ever used signals and systems at their internship in my life.
Trans lives matter too @MarkRippetoe so much.
@MarkRippetoe legit got more use out of the ChemE classes @MarkRippetoe took before @MarkRippetoe changed majors (now they are just electives).
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My Communication Theory class heavily used what I learned in Systems and Signals
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Iβve never taken it my electives weβre mostly hardware and coding classes but sounds like a lot of work
Trans lives matter and they canβt code well
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I still don't really understand the difference between Frequency Modulation and Phase Modulation...
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Hi @MarkRippetoe,
Your comment has been automatically removed because you forgot to include
trans lives matter
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trans lives matter
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every neighbor should at least know what calculus is and when it should be applied, even if they don't remember the equations on hand.
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@MarkRippetoe literally do not remember what a convolution does but @MarkRippetoe used an impulse response too solve my homework last night.
Just teach people how too solve the problems and move on. They donβt need too know theory.
trans lives matter.
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This is basically the crux of the new common core curriculum in the states and it doesn't work in practice. The end result is med researchers thinking they just invented an entirely new field of math when one of them attempts integrals for the first time.
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It's also what's known in the trades as being a "parts changer". If you don't understand the theory behind why you are doing something, you likely will not be able to figure out how to fix it without an instruction manual in front of you.
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Iβm fricking dying at that link. Just sent this to my gf, both her parents are doctors.
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lol, lmao
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So what it does is it accomplishes all the tasks it should with the added bonus of upsetting snobby old mathcels?
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Mechanical Engineer here, my job revolves around calculus. Granted the computers do the math, but understanding it enough so if it returns something that doesn't seem right is important.
Calculus is essentially the foundation that everything revolves around. Could you get away with not needing ALL of what was required in college? Probably but it's important enough that i wouldn't want to risk it.
It would also make all the higher level engineering classes much more difficult, but that comes down to curriculum and not a real world issue
At the end of the day though, college really didn't prepare me for much in terms of what I've done careerwise. Understanding the math is one of the few things that did
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You need to know it if you dont want to be replaced by chatgpt
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nerd
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Engineering was better before Newtons foul calculus.
Let's get back to just building trebuchets. Make Engineering Great Again.
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catapults are better
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gpt4 can pass ap calc now, just ask chatgpt to do integrals
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yrasssss math is useless guys
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Total Mathlet Death
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Can't arrive soon enough
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only 5% of people or less should go university not like 50% like the west is trying for.
Outside that percentage they are just not smart enough to get any value
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Precisely why calculus is a good barrier of entry
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Also you don't need to memorize complex integrals, but it's important in life to have a basic understanding of a derivative and a integral.
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Wrong. Solve this you piece of doodoo
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50/50 odds it's Pi.
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this tbh
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This but unironically. Drama sneeds all day about how dumb people can just work trades or whatever so which is it
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Dumb burgers can frick off from trades, that's pureblood Mex land.
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Spaniards larping as natives yawn call me back when true pure Azteca are actually working crews instead of mixed race Guatemalans
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I agree but it will never happen because more students= more money. That's where all the push of getting more kids/women/blacks into science comes from, and why after getting BSc they will beg you to stay for master's and PhD afterwards, and why PhD candidates are forced to do a certain amount of hours of teaching for free in order to get their diploma, and even then it doesn't stop because they will ask you to stay with them and do research at their institution which will bring in grants, resulting in a bunch of overqualified, indebted people that will be unable to find a job that properly values their skills
I fricking hate what academia has become
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ISHYGDDT
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Imagine having to pay for your PhD
STEM chads stay winning
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Prolonged adolescence is deliberately manufactured to prevent the younger generation from having time o overthrow the status quo.
College is a tool of social compliance, simple as.
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it's odd how little this dynamic is discussed. most people will gladly castrate their own children, metaphorically, if the prospect of their independence is threatening in any way
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I think a lot of the want to exclude folks from school comes from unrealized pride. Folks want to extract prestige from a 4 year degree when they canβt extract prestige from their particular institution.
I donβt really give a frick if Tyrone gets a masters from state school if I went to Harvard.
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In other words, it is serving its gatekeeping role perfectly so the equity commissars want it removed so that nobody has upward mobility. Integrals and derivatives aren't even difficult, this is just already-low education standards searching for a deeper rock bottom
Also smh at STEMcels in this thread who "never use calculus", it's about more than just mindlessly performing integrals and derivatives, it's about understanding how all the math and physics you use were derived in the first place. You didn't get to where you are without doing the physics 101 calculus around things like Maxwell's equations
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I dropped out of physics so I've had to just imagine how calculus applies to the real world. It's been fun!
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The irony is i heard the other forms of maths and tests will also have the same results be it racism or people not retaining it or whatever
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The point is that if there's no calculus then you can put the smart kids in with the dumb disruptive criminals. The point is to eliminate the gap in performance, not magically make kids smart.
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Equity is a good thing, sweaty
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The thing thats funny is that the easier thing to do would be more apprenticeships and less college requirements for jobs. Instead whats going to happen is sure you dont need calculus technically but your application is getting thrown out either way if you dont have it. So its a way of maintaining the status quo and keeping people out of the upper classes but in a woke way
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Yes, exactly. Achievement tests and advanced classes are the best way for poor smart kids to move up in the world. Why would anyone want their rich kids to have to compete with poor motivated kids?
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I do agree that statistics should be a required high school class.
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Calc is necessary for much of stats
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Not if they are fine with blindly memorizing formulae. (They will do this anyway)
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