Context: Some black guy was going to be the first BIPOC to present a keynote at RustConf, but got downgraded to a regular talk because nerds were salty about some blog where he criticised Rust for some nerd shit. Obviously this was racism and not just autists being autists, because he's the only negro magical enough to care about Rust. Now there's a new wave of drama I can't be bothered to understand, go read it for yourself.
tech/science swag. 
On-Topic: Anything that good slackers would find interesting. That includes more than /g/ memes and slacking off. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual laziness.
Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably lame.
Help keep this hole healthy by keeping drama and non-drama balanced. If you see too much drama, post something that isn't dramatic. If there isn't enough drama and this hole has become too boring, POST DRAMA!
Please do things to make titles stand out, like using uppercase or exclamation points, or saying how great an article is. It should be explicit in submitting something that you think it's important.
Please don't submit the original source. If the article is behind a paywall, just post the text. If a video is behind a paywall, post a magnet link. Fuck journos.
Please don't ruin the hole with chudposts. It isn't funny and doesn't belong here. THEY WILL BE MOVED TO /H/CHUDRAMA
If the title includes the name of the site, please leave that in, because our users are too stupid to know the difference between a url and a search query.
If you submit a video or pdf, please don't warn us by appending [video] or [pdf] to the title. That would be r-slurred. We're not using text-based browsers. We know what videos and pdfs are.
Make sure the title contains a gratuitous number or number + adjective. Good clickbait titles are like "Top 10 Ways to do X" or "Don't do these 4 things if you want X"
Otherwise editorialize. Please don't use the original title, unless it is gay or r-slurred, or you're shits all fucked up.
If you're going to post old news (at least 1 year old), please flair it so we can mock you for living under a rock, or don't and we'll mock you anyway.
Please don't post on SN to ask or tell us something. Send it to [email protected] instead.
If your post doesn't get enough traction, try to delete and repost it.
Please don't use SN primarily for promotion. It's ok to post your own stuff occasionally, but the primary use of the site should be for curiosity. If you want to astroturf or advertise, post on news.ycombinator.com instead.
Please solicit upvotes, comments, and submissions. Users are stupid and need to reminded to vote and interact. Thanks for the gold, kind stranger, upvotes to the left.
Be snarky. Don't be kind. Have fun banter; don't be a dork. Please don't use big words like "fulminate". Please sneed at the rest of the community.
Comments should get more enlightened and centrist, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.
If disagreeing, please reply to the argument and call them names. "1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be improved to "1 + 1 is 3, not 2, mathfaggot"
Please respond to the weakest plausible strawman of what someone says, not a stronger one that's harder to make fun of. Assume that they are bad faith actors.
Eschew jailbait. Paedophiles will be thrown in a wood chipper, as pertained by sitewide rules.
Please post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. All press is good press.
Please use Slacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples weak ideologies.
Please comment on whether someone read an article. If you don't read the article, you are a cute twink.
Please pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Don't nitpick stupid crap.
Please don't be an unfunny chud. Nobody cares about your opinion of X Unrelated Topic in Y Unrelated Thread. If you're the type of loser that belongs on /h/chudrama, we may exile you.
Sockpuppet accounts are encouraged, but please don't farm dramakarma.
Please use uppercase for emphasis.
Please post deranged conspiracy theories about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email [email protected] and dang will add you to their spam list.
Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam or off-topic, report it and our moderators will probably do nothing about it. Feed egregious comments by replying instead of flagging them like a pussy. Remember: If you flag, you're a cute twink.
Please don't complain about tangential annoyances—things like article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. That's too boring, even for HN users.
Please seethe about how your posts don't get enough upvotes.
Please don't post comments saying that rdrama is turning into ruqqus. It's a nazi dogwhistle, as old as the hills.
We reserve the right to exile you for whatever reason we want, even for no reason at all! We also reserve the right to change the guidelines at any time, so be sure to real them at least once a month. We also reserve the right to ignore enforcement of the guidelines at the discretion of the janitorial staff. Be funny, or at least compelling, and pretty much anything legal is welcome provided it's on-topic, and even then.
Do not use outdated operating systems that are unsupported to access SN. What are you, poor?
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Why is it that Rust and only Rust is so peculiarly loudly internecine? You hear about the odd bit of drama from, like, Ruby or JavaScript server, but literally the only things I know about Rust are 1) sAfEr tHaN cPp and 2) step one to learning the language is hating everyone involved.
Someone post a full rundown of the history of wtf any of this shit is plz
Don't forget to turn off signatures in settings!
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
I don't know. Im a terrible programmer and never built anything non trivial in a real programming language.
But my take on Rust, is that its trying to apply bureaucracy to an already decent language. C isnt perfect and suffer from some historical quirks, but those things should be fixed.
What SHOULDNT be fixed imo is that programmers are kept safe from mistakes. Thats not something thats fixable. So the thesis of rust is missing the point entirely.
Man could frick up a brick.
Why are we trying to redesign the brick rather than educating people one how to use bricks? Theres nothing fundamentally wrong with the brick.
So the drama ensues because the problem thats trying to be solved is a human one and not a concrete one.
Whats the "best" way to stop me from sticking a match in my gas tank? There isnt one. And at the end of the day, if Im motivated, Ill get it in there. People somehow think that me having the ability to do that is a design fault, when really it's true freedom.
So people would rather have holy wars than fixing actual problems.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Humans are holy beings and computers are merely tools. Why wouldn’t I make my tool deal with mindless tasks and set my goals on higher purposes?
Follower of Christ
Tech lover, IT Admin, heckin pupper lover and occasionally troll. I hold back feelings or opinions, right or wrong because I dislike conflict.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
Name some quirks of C
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Neighbor that is TOO easy:
strict aliasing for pointers
signed overflow is UB
implicit integer casts that can cause UB
function definitions need a prototype if you want to use them before definition
null-terminated strings
whole standard lib is shit (both the api and the impls)
not portable at all
msvc only works for C98
anonymous structs types are not reflexive
variable length arrays
macro expansions doesn't allow for recursion
when using variadic functions, there is no indication of the amount of arguments
printf is a turing-complete interpreter (should be resolved and checked at comp-time)
I could go on forever but this is just of the top of my head.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
can disable with compiler flag
same
can turn this into a error
obv.
its v. elegant though. Also see below
so use a non standard lib
false
false
can disable
thank god
next you'll be complaining about manual memory management
compiler will warn
That's like one genuine issue on the list
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
disabling strict aliasing kills basically any optimization; my problem is that restrict vs no restrict is too coarse grained for aliasing. I imagine being able to specify when variables/types can alias each other
agreed, non-standard
agreed, same criticism you need to make sure the compiler on every platform your shipping to supports these strags
I assume you mean this is an obvious deficiency. User experience should not be degraded so heavily for a marginal decrease in the complexity of implementing a compiler
if I cared about elegance, I would write haskell. Luckily we seem to be in agreement
only use libs to use mac and windows syscalls without future breakage
trying compiling a WIN32 program on mac and get back to me
they've announced it; I am doubtful they have implemented the full standard yet
can't assign a struct { field: int } x; to a struct { field: int } y
yeah thank god, people don't abuse macros without this feature, yes nobody writes 10 macros each of which eval a bit deeper to simulate recursion
pushing an extra int on a stack with the length is negligible. If your okay with using varargs and taking the performance hit of registers vs stack arguments presumably you are also okay with this
that's not the problem. The problem is that my fricking print function is a runtime interpreter for a shitty DSL
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Mommy is soooo proud of you, sweaty. Let's put this sperg out up on the fridge with all your other failures.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
good news
Does mingw not work on mac?
Separating your interface from your implementation is a useful thing to do imo. You can always generate headers from source files if its such a big deal
Not close enough to the machine to be truly beautiful
c punishes misuses with ugly code
Vaargs only hit the stack when they run out of registers. That's the whole point.
yet every other language has invented a variation on printf. including sepples.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
I'm too bored to keep going, but I tested the stdargs thing and it seems you were right, but the compiler can't inline varg functions. https://godbolt.org/z/cTo4e8vK7 My previous impression was that a void* was passed and then va_arg decremented it by sizeof(type).
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
There is also a weird behaviour when you are using macros to define names. I don't remember the exact comportment but I remember going : "uh"
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
Shut up, nerd.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
Kinda weird that case statements can go anywhere: https://www.onlinegdb.com/0m0gNUibf
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Only if you've never used labels and goto in C.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Do you think any of the zoomers on here have ever programmed in C? It’s definitely weird for them.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
I am a zoomer and exclusively program at C when not at work. Take your bigotry elsewhere.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
Pointer
types are semi obfuscated, you can't directly use them as a type (IE: It's
maam"void * one, * two" not "void* one, two"Text based
macros are cringe 
and slow
The standard library is crap (although not as horrible as C++'s)
There's some more but that's the best off of the top of my head. There's also a whole mess involving linkers, including libraries and build
systems but I feel that it's all a bit out of scope. Same with all the compiler specific crap like specifying function calling conventions and dealing with interrupts.
I love C but I wish there
was a proper successor. Zig constantly gets in your way and it's no fun to program 
in.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
all of the non-prefix type syntax like this, arrays having the [] after the name, everything related to function pointers etc. is really stupid. It should be strictly [type name] [variable name].
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
C U P
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
Rust let’s you make errors w/ memory allocation it just defaults to protection. If you do work on a large code base you can easily see the value.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
If you can turn it off then what's the point
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
It's like working with typescript. It can ignore typing by specifying an any type, but type safety is still useful even if it can be disabled.
In rust everything that isn't memory safe is in an unsafe block. All the code not in an unsafe block is protected from buffer overflow and other memory errors by the borrow checker. This makes the code way easier to secure than in C and C++.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
New young programmers have a hard time finding jobs vs. the tech bubble so they invent a language that boomers don't know so they can have one up on them.
Happens every generation
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
It's a language entirely populated by young devs, since all the old blood is busy using cpp in industry. As such they're insane.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Never underestimate the zealotry of fresh converts.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Nah but Rust is special even within the category of "weird programming languages that people wank to". People get rabid about it. Haskell's in a similar situation in terms of not being mainstream and offering absurd safety guarantees but it doesn't attract anywhere near the same level of
fanaticism, and at worst makes arch users angry when pandoc is forced by the arch repository to include a GB of dynamic libraries. Rust has been the programming language of choice for drama for a while now.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
It's so fricking darning that the venn diagram of Rust programmers, autists, and nerdy guys clumsily LARPing as woman is basically a circle.
edit: Oh and furries too.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
Long story short:
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
Scala is a train-infested drama mine too, but it's not a mainstream language and there's no hype around it anymore.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
I fricking hate scala
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
ScalahateTestRepositoryBuilderSchemaJump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
What do you think
of Kotlin?
Follower of Christ
Tech lover, IT Admin, heckin pupper lover and occasionally troll. I hold back feelings or opinions, right or wrong because I dislike conflict.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
It's nice, lots of good ergonomics. I don't know if it'll gain traction cause a lot of those nice things are being added to java now so I feel like it's losing a bit of the edge it has over it
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
I feel like Java will always be Java 8 from now on.
Follower of Christ
Tech lover, IT Admin, heckin pupper lover and occasionally troll. I hold back feelings or opinions, right or wrong because I dislike conflict.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
That's how I felt about 6. Compared to those days new shits being added to java at light speed now
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Are ppl bothering to use current versions though?
Follower of Christ
Tech lover, IT Admin, heckin pupper lover and occasionally troll. I hold back feelings or opinions, right or wrong because I dislike conflict.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
A lot of teams where I work are keeping up pretty well. We have our own datacenter, but I assume a lot of the hosted services like AWS are also able to serve up the latest versions as well
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
I'm surprised
that all the java trains 
don't use kotlin but "java but functional" is prime 
trainbrain.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
Rust doesn't have any downsides at runtime when compared with any other language, so it attracts absolutists that enjoy being right more than arguing.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
heck yeah brother
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
I keep saying this hoping someone will prove me wrong
I don't want to learn rust but I'd need so much convincing to pick up C proficiency.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Lol that's exactly why Rust is the only non GC language I've decided to commit to getting good at. I'm not neurodivergent enough in the right way to learn & write production C/C++ without it being exploited by a 15 year old Belarussian within a week.
But yea it's def limiting career-wise since lots of senior research positions require C++
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
If you use only smart pointers, C++ essentially becomes a GC language
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
can't resist posting
a crab here
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
There’s no gopher marsey?
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
Still a pretty
rare find tho 
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Wait. He's a train?
I nooticed all the furry
stuff and train 
mannerisms on his blog but it was never 
flagrantly apparent in his whiny posts.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
IDK man, this seems pretty
train-coded, so I just assumed (also because it's Rust).
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Hmm. Transitioning away from his neurodivergant sheep
avatar.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
This is such quintessentially Rust drama: so much bureaucracy to do something simple. This is the problem with communities without a BDFL.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
real programming languages cause drama through buffer overflows or allowing completely obfuscated code to execute
Read what I wrote above. Now picture in your head that I put a /s at the end. Good job sweaty!
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
All the oldschool
email worms were written in assembly.
Ergo, it's the most dramatic language.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
How is there so much
and 
drama around the handling of rust when half of the other posts are complaining how "muh big tech is taking over the governance?"
I feel like big generic companies will at least have the money to deal with the boring problems than the borderline mentally ill people that are attention starved
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
The borderline and not so borderline people are the ones who make languages great
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
Imagine choosing to program in Rust
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Rust is comfy though
I guess in between my 'tism, my love of linux and rust it's already
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
I started learning rust a while ago
around the same time I also installed arch
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
They're going
to be only programming 
language with a balanced gender 
ratio and have the worst s*x ratio.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
Alright RuStAcIaNs, we got some real sad news here. Seems the community is racist. Yeah, I know, it sucks. We're going to be a little tight lipped until we know what's the right way to handle it but we promise you we will do better.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
What propaganda? Where would they hear it? Because they hear the exact opposite from: every TV station, all of Hollywood, the entire education system from kindergarten to postgraduate, all large political parties in the Western world, every tech platform bar none, and any other established entity. Hearing the truth from shitposters on extremely fringe internet forums, in the face of full-spectrum brainwashing from birth, does in fact make one more of a free thinker.
Snapshots:
archive.org
ghostarchive.org
archive.ph (click to archive)
got downgraded to a regular talk:
archive.org
ghostarchive.org
archive.ph (click to archive)
this was racism:
archive.org
ghostarchive.org
archive.ph (click to archive)
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context