Allendetrussy/rate 3mo ago#6908509
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Omg you r-slurs who can't read
Hasbro is updating DnD 5th edition, this includes their online version DnD beyond. If you owned DnD 5th in their online version, it will automatically update and change to the new version. This means books you paid for will be changed regardless of if you want it or not.
Some of the changes are lefty social politics. Removing race, racial characteristics, anything your stereotypical hyper lib would dislike. This has angered people.
In addition spells and stuff have changed. So if you liked the old versions those are just gone, on the books you paid for.
"OMG YOU CAN'T SAY THAT BLACK DWARVES REQUIRE MORE MANA TO CAST THE SAME FIREBALL AS EVERYONE ELSE DUE TO SOCIOECONOMIC FACTORS! RACE DOESN'T EXIST IN D&D ANYMORE, WE ARE ALL ONE!!"
"I don't like those rules, so I'll just ignore them. Now pay the mana, you filthy digger."
The spells in particular are a change I dislike for apolitical reasons: Nearly all conjuration spells that previously created monsters are replaced with either spirit shroud style passive buffs (conjure minor elementals, which is ironically extremely OP and can outclass fighters in damage per turn) or totally-not-moonbeam AoE damage that moves (most of the others, they also made a mistake by making conjure celestial able to heal the same player each turn in the final player's handbook, in previews of the handbook it could only heal each creature once per casting of the spell but now it's 4d12 healing per round with no action required, while still being able to deal the spell's damage on the same turn. In comparison, the allegedly overpowered conjure celestial's best possible healing is from a Living Portent, which only has 2 uses of Cure Wounds, 1 use of Greater Restoration (5th level spell btw, so casting it just for this would not be worth it) and an action to temporarily increase a creature's HP and max HP by 1d8+3, which only counts as healing by the same standards that Temporary Hit Points are healing. They probably made it that powerful to keep it level 7, as they had promised to keep only the levels and names of spells, while completely changing the effects). The others, which have summon in their name rather than conjure, specify that they definitely do not summon an actual monster but instead call upon a spirit which momentarily takes the form of a modular and level-scaled generic monster of the chosen type until the spell ends, rubbing in the player's face the fact that they are closer to a trading card game adaptation character than an actual summoner of monsters. This also means that you can't use most non-combat benefits of conjuring a creature, such as having it cast utility spells, move objects, or anything roleplay-related. The only reason that the new conjure spells were added was so that WOTC could keep their promise of being totally compatible with 5E while still getting rid of those unbalanced, cheesy, adventurer's league unfriendly, and railroad-diverting spells which affected the action economy. Granted, Pixies are extremely OP as an option for Conjure Woodland Beings due to effectively giving the player 8 free uses of polymorph for a 4th level spell slot, but that's due to them having a CR of 1/4, not that the ability to conjure monsters without a is inherently bad game design, an argument which redditors have been making. Notice that even single-creature summon spells have been changed in this way, so it can't just be justified by turns taking longer, as some of the new effects also don't use up actions:
the point is to not maintain the spirit of the old spells. the old spells made running the game an absolute terror for everyone at the table they needed to go.
Furthermore, generally speaking players have no business having monster stat blocks in their arsenal. Monster stat blocks are not balanced the same way player character ones are, nor should they be given their role in the game
The original spells were game breakingly bad. Banned at every table I have played at that cared tuppence about balance.
My thoughts TLDR: make it a swarm stat block with some more variance and make another spell for actual incorporeal spirits.
Then you have the exact same as the existing / ported over "Summon XYZ" spells as they create 1 creature on the battlefield... just with swarms instead of a single body. That is exactly what they wanted to avoid and distinguish from, so they made them the incorporeal option befitting a swarm.
I hope that they implement this for Summon Lesser/Greater Demon and Infernal Calling too
People really out here trying to ignore the existence of the Summon X spells?
(in response to someone pointing out that single-monster summon spells can work well and that the conjure spells should work like that. I wonder why people want to ignore the Summon X spells?)
Use the Tasha's Summon spells. Maybe they need to be jazzed up a bit, but no matter how you slice it, summoning multiple creatures with one spell needs to go.
Reflavor the Summons to be swarms and make a houserule about the Shepherd Druid's HP buff. Done.
I get munchkins suck.
Munchkin: use conjure spells for combat.
Totalynotmunchkin: use conjure spells to emulate other spells. Totaly not busted - i just picked one spell instead of five. Balanced.
Example of someone looking forward to conjure spells becoming purely combat effects.
To summarize, many of the newer spells seem to be half evocation spell, half conjuration spell. One of the few things I'm glad about in the new rules is that Chill Touch's effect now is similar to what its name suggests, it's no longer a 120ft projectile. As for martial classes, I'll just say that I prefer Level Up's maneuver system for both bringing back one of the few good parts of 4E and making a better way to define DCs for non-spell saving throws.
RedeeIVIedSinnerI/We
I’m 100% certain that at least half the mods do not have Faith or the Holy Spirit.
Allende 3mo ago#6908528
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Omg you r-slurs who can't read
You'd think TTRPGers would enjoy reading walls of text since that's what their games books are
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Omg you r-slurs who can't read
Hasbro is updating DnD 5th edition, this includes their online version DnD beyond. If you owned DnD 5th in their online version, it will automatically update and change to the new version. This means books you paid for will be changed regardless of if you want it or not.
Some of the changes are lefty social politics. Removing race, racial characteristics, anything your stereotypical hyper lib would dislike. This has angered people.
In addition spells and stuff have changed. So if you liked the old versions those are just gone, on the books you paid for.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
"OMG YOU CAN'T SAY THAT BLACK DWARVES REQUIRE MORE MANA TO CAST THE SAME FIREBALL AS EVERYONE ELSE DUE TO SOCIOECONOMIC FACTORS! RACE DOESN'T EXIST IN D&D ANYMORE, WE ARE ALL ONE!!"
"I don't like those rules, so I'll just ignore them. Now pay the mana, you filthy digger."
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I'm a Nogames according to /tg/ and just from this comment I can tell you haven't read the player's handbook, or any other D&D core book.
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The spells in particular are a change I dislike for apolitical reasons: Nearly all conjuration spells that previously created monsters are replaced with either spirit shroud style passive buffs (conjure minor elementals, which is ironically extremely OP and can outclass fighters in damage per turn) or totally-not-moonbeam AoE damage that moves (most of the others, they also made a mistake by making conjure celestial able to heal the same player each turn in the final player's handbook, in previews of the handbook it could only heal each creature once per casting of the spell but now it's 4d12 healing per round with no action required, while still being able to deal the spell's damage on the same turn. In comparison, the allegedly overpowered conjure celestial's best possible healing is from a Living Portent, which only has 2 uses of Cure Wounds, 1 use of Greater Restoration (5th level spell btw, so casting it just for this would not be worth it) and an action to temporarily increase a creature's HP and max HP by 1d8+3, which only counts as healing by the same standards that Temporary Hit Points are healing. They probably made it that powerful to keep it level 7, as they had promised to keep only the levels and names of spells, while completely changing the effects). The others, which have summon in their name rather than conjure, specify that they definitely do not summon an actual monster but instead call upon a spirit which momentarily takes the form of a modular and level-scaled generic monster of the chosen type until the spell ends, rubbing in the player's face the fact that they are closer to a trading card game adaptation character than an actual summoner of monsters. This also means that you can't use most non-combat benefits of conjuring a creature, such as having it cast utility spells, move objects, or anything roleplay-related. The only reason that the new conjure spells were added was so that WOTC could keep their promise of being totally compatible with 5E while still getting rid of those unbalanced, cheesy, adventurer's league unfriendly, and railroad-diverting spells which affected the action economy. Granted, Pixies are extremely OP as an option for Conjure Woodland Beings due to effectively giving the player 8 free uses of polymorph for a 4th level spell slot, but that's due to them having a CR of 1/4, not that the ability to conjure monsters without a is inherently bad game design, an argument which redditors have been making. Notice that even single-creature summon spells have been changed in this way, so it can't just be justified by turns taking longer, as some of the new effects also don't use up actions:
https://old.reddit.com/r/onednd/comments/1897ayc/conjure_spells_changes/
https://old.reddit.com/r/onednd/comments/185qvvp/conjure_spells_discussion/
https://old.reddit.com/r/onednd/comments/18giefa/the_problem_is_mass_conjuring/
(in response to someone pointing out that single-monster summon spells can work well and that the conjure spells should work like that. I wonder why people want to ignore the Summon X spells?)
https://old.reddit.com/r/onednd/comments/18bhvho/the_new_conjuration_spells_feel_miserable_to_me/
Example of someone looking forward to conjure spells becoming purely combat effects.
To summarize, many of the newer spells seem to be half evocation spell, half conjuration spell. One of the few things I'm glad about in the new rules is that Chill Touch's effect now is similar to what its name suggests, it's no longer a 120ft projectile. As for martial classes, I'll just say that I prefer Level Up's maneuver system for both bringing back one of the few good parts of 4E and making a better way to define DCs for non-spell saving throws.
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You'd think TTRPGers would enjoy reading walls of text since that's what their games books are
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