CHRISTIANS HELP ME COMMUNITY NOTE THIS APETHEIST REDDITARD!

https://x.com/NaziCringe/status/1752216839852343676

https://x.com/i/birdwatch/t/1752216839852343676 - RATE HELPFUL

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THIS MY NOTE

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Everyone whines about human sacrifice but the reason it's historically in so many religions is because it is magically potent. Animal sacrifices work. Human sacrifices work even better. Unironically. The better the kill, the better the offering. What's interesting about Christianity is that instead of taking the Islamic route of just killing people in an insane bloodthirsty way it recognizes the magical potency of human sacrifice but subverts it. Christianity realizes that if human sacrifices are stronger than animal sacrifices then sacrifices where you kill God (or kill both man and God) will be even stronger. The Christian religion then ritualizes this offering of flesh and blood every week in the sacrament of the Eucharist which culminates in you literally devouring the slain flesh of your human and divine victim after asking him for help making money or finding love or whatever. It is the most supernaturally-potent, easily-repeatable sacrificial ritual possible.

!schizos. facts.

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I don't think it's about Jesus' sacrifice having been "more powerful" due to divine substance. It's Biblical typology, where Jesus' sacrifice parallels Abraham's willingness to sacrifice Isaac on God's command, but God actually follows through with his own Son. It also wasn't humanity sacrificing Jesus.

which culminates in you literally devouring the slain flesh of your human and divine victim

No, it's not literally flesh. It's the "substance" of God. It still has all the properties of bread. Furthermore, that's Catholicism and (kind of) Anglicanism/Episcopalianism.

Edit: also, the Eucharist isn't really a "repeat" sacrifice. The sacrifice already happened once when Jesus was crucified, which set in motion all the New Testament stuff like the fulfillment of the Covenant.

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You're using the grammar of the religion itself. I'm using an occult grammar. Masking magic behind theology and other kinds of wordplay is necessary inside but is not necessary to explain why it works from the outside. The Eucharist was practiced long before Aquinas and has been partaken by billions of people that wouldn't know the first thing about a substance/essence distinction let alone believe in it if they did.

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You're using the grammar of the religion itself. I'm using an occult grammar.

This is much more than a difference of grammar. You are mistaken about the metaphysical framework of Christianity. I see that you are the mod of /h/rdharma, so the best way I can put it is if someone described Sunyata as Nietzschen nihilism.

Aquinas' theory of transubstantiation was just his attempt to frame the real presence in Aristotlean terms. I only referenced it because it's the theoretical formulation of a longstanding Christian recognition that what is taking place is a spiritual communion with Jesus Christ rather than literal cannabalism. More importantly, Jesus wasn't a victim of humanity. He was sacrificed by God (again, similar to Abraham/Isaac) to save humanity from itself. From a "magical" perspective, the idea of killing the omnipotent creator of the universe is absurd. It's very important that God made this sacrifice, not humanity, because it's one of Christianity's primary appeals to God's benevolence. It's a major component of Christianity's metaphysical answer to the Problem of Evil, which is something addressed by virtually every human metaphysical/religious framework.

The Crucifixion of Christ being the sacrifice is almost as old as Christianity itself. It's the core mechanic of the entire framework of Christianity, whereby the "sickness" of original sin can now be "healed" through Baptism. It is also the fulfillment of God's The Liturgy of the Eucharist being an additional sacrifice/fulfillment every Sunday would make no sense from a "magical" standpoint, let alone a theological one.

The "magical" aspect of the Eucharist is that the congregation is spiritually joining with God through the ritual of the Last Supper, not the Crucifixion. It's seen as a timeless spiritual "link" to Christ and the Apostles, as well as to all the Christians since then.

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You are mistaken about the metaphysical framework of Christianity

I am well-acquainted with Christian metaphysics. I do not necessarily hold them and I use rdrama as a venting space for exploring Radical Centrist political perspectives and Magical Realist spiritual perspectives.

You are speaking in the "inside" language of Christianity. This makes sense. Words are fundamental units of the supernatural. Every religion that survives eventually evolves a theological memeplex that guards its own definitions, sharpens its own internal logic, and propagates its own confessional creeds.

I am not interested in holding onto an inside language like that. Not only does it prevent you from seeing "your own" religion in its full light (See how much beautiful progress has been made by secular scholars on understanding the lively ideological diversity of various 1st century christianities for example) it also prevents you from properly appreciating other religions. Yes, yes, Jesus probably did do miracles but so did plenty of other people (or beings) in almost every culture throughout all of human history. Isn't that interesting? What is going on there?

By holding too tightly onto one religion you've given up on being able to hold the full /h/truth. You are either stuck denying the vast body of evidence for magic in every culture ever (and in your own direct experience should you choose to look) or you are stuck thinking everything but your religion's miracles are the works of demons or their equivalent.

Instead of being atheist towards most religious experience except one particular branch, why not take a broader perspective?

Once you can accept that magic is simply a part of the real world you can start applying real-world intuition to it (rather than what is strictly theologically required). Religion starts looking suspiciously close to being all too human. Just like how in politics you can look at things from a realpolitik perspective (Russia invaded Crimea for a warm water port, not to defeat Nazis or w/e), just like how in culture you can look at things from a darwinian perspective (the higher IQ of Europeans inside the Hajnal Line is suspiciously correlated to strong bans of second cousin marriage), so too can you look at Religion from a magical realist perspective (the Eucharist has clear parallels to animal and human sacrifice rituals).

Now that that's out of the way:

Jesus wasn't a victim of humanity. He was sacrificed by God (again, similar to Abraham/Isaac) to save humanity from itself.

Semantics. Humans sinned. Humans killed Jesus. Christ's death is directly attributable to us. "Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men" as the Apostle says. Setting a superdeterminist spin on that doesn't change the fact that in Christianity we killed God, even if, yes, he let it happen for substitutionary atonement purposes.

The Liturgy of the Eucharist being an additional sacrifice/fulfillment every Sunday would make no sense from a "magical" standpoint, let alone a theological one.

It makes perfect sense. Number 1: magic works. Number 2: sacrificing stuff makes magic work better. Number 3: the bigger the sacrifice, the better the magic. Number 4: the biggest possible sacrifice and bestest sacrificial magic is the greatest possible thing being sacrificed (possibly) for the least possible thing. Sacrificing God to absolve sin is like paying for a piece of gum with the world economy. Number 5: magic works through the law of belief. Number 6: A culture that believes and re-enacts the greatest possible sacrifice will have all sorts of magical and miraculous happenings.

Magic is a powerful force. Any religion that has reached the size of Christianity is necessarily effective at wielding the supernatural. You don't have to know how to build an aircraft to fly one, however.

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I've never been an atheist, but I largely did not care about Christian theology up until 6 months ago, at which point I decided to do a deep dive to actually understand the religion I've grown up in but largely ignored (aside from the basic ethical framework) for most of my life. I've been quasi-agnotic for most of this time but I've recently discovered that my metaphysical outlook is more akin to neoplatonism and classical theism, although I'm not a fan of Plotinus' gnostic conclusions. I'm also a fan of some elements of Buddhism, particularly the Middle Way, as well as Spinoza and Wittgenstein. I can probably expound at length about what I see as the systemic weaknesses of Christian practice, as much as I can praise and explain it.

I say all of this because you seem to have made some major assumptions about me, particularly about "holding onto an inside language". I'm not holding onto any inside language, I'm just exercising fluency in one. I especially loathe the "demons" explanation for outside matters, psychology/neurology in particular.

See how much beautiful progress has been made by secular scholars on understanding the lively ideological diversity of various 1st century christianities for example

Religion starts looking suspiciously close to being all too human.

Early Christian thought is what really ignited my interest in the religion. I see most of Christian practice past late Antiquity as a long exercise in politics and administration. Of course religion looks human, it is indelibly human. It is the first, ancient practice of both metaphysics and ethics. Your focus on trying to fit Christian practice into a mechanistic "magic" framework neglects the social and philosophical factors of the theology and their impacts.

My phone is running out of battery so I will end this comment here; I also get the feeling that you won't really listen to any further feedback from me on your views of Christian practices.

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It is clear we are just re-iterating our own same points with no further progress being made. Have a wonderful week.

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I was actually acknowledging and agreeing with multiple points you made, but okay.

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๐Ÿ˜ด๐Ÿ˜ด๐Ÿ˜ด

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:marseycry: :marseycry: :marseycry:

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Brutal mogging.


:#marseyklennycross:

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