https://x.com/60Minutes/status/1792337978313802225
"We are all fundamentally good. Yes, there are some rogues and sinners, but the heart itself is good," says Pope Francis. https://t.co/MmLPBhWVU2 pic.twitter.com/7Be2GrKrdB
— 60 Minutes (@60Minutes) May 19, 2024
Bro, has the Pope even met people?
Does the Pope not realize that what goodnees he sees was hard-fought-for by his own church, and only possible by the grace of Our Lord as mediated by the Holy Spirit?
Does he not know that this is the good news that the gospels are named after?
!christians discuss!
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Why is this a bad thing? Pls explain to this confused Jew
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"people are basically good" becomes "I'm basically good" which becomes "if me and these good people are not winning it's because other people (the rogues and sinners) are oppressing me" which is the basic principle behind Marxism (no surprise that Pope liberation theology would go there) which leads to a fair few of the genocides of the 20th century.
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Lol I know people like their slippery slope but I think "humans have a fundamental dignity" leads to genocide is a bit much hun
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That's not what I said though
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People are basically good leads to the principles of Marxism which causes genocides? Is that better?
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believing that people are basically good, yes. When people believe that they are basically they lose motivation self reflect on their actions and to try to better themselves.
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me, personally, i think the belief that "people are fundamentally good" or "humans have a fundamental dignity" doesn't engender people to commit genocide
whereas the belief that people can be born inherently evil/sinful and that evil/sin is transmitted by their birth, might enable people to kill others. but hey, youre right, lack of self improvement is a problem 
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See, that's interesting. I never would have equated the idea that "humans have a fundamental dignity" with the idea that "people are fundamentally good. I agree 100% with "humans have a fundamental dignity" - that's Christian doctrine through and through, and it's the Christian doctrine that built modern notion of human rights and that underpins western civilization. But I see it as completely separate from the concept that people are inherently good or bad.
Because that's exactly what scares me. When they tie human dignity to the idea that people are basically good, and say that's it's only a few "rogues and sinners" who are bad, they start to blame those rogues for the woes of the world. If it's just a few people that aren't good (unlike the rest of us), then maybe it's ok if they're not treated like the rest of us - getting rid of them would help solve a lot of problems, wouldn't it?
And so the fundamentals of classical liberalism are eroded away because idea of basic human dignity has been coupled to that person's inherent goodness. And once a few bad apples have been gotten rid of, but the world still has problems, a search begins for more people out there who aren't basically good, and an ever tightening purity spiral continues. Pretty soon entire groups of people are getting the blame, deflecting people from considering the evil within themselves. QED.
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PlsRope
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i feel like its a one-step proof. treating good things without dignity is bad, humans are good, treating humans without dignity is bad. therefor treat humans with dignity.
we have humanist thought at least from the ancient greeks like Socrates, Epicurus, and Aristotle, all espousing ethics without jesus. this was such a problem for christians like augustine and aquinas that they explained it as pre-christ revelations, laughably dogmatic. or simply consider just the golden rule. or even within the christian mythology where jesus in between death and resurrection goes to heck or limbo or whatever to save all those moral jewish patriarchs. then comes the enlightenment, a clear rejection of christian theism in favor of obtaining rights from Natural law, developed it further to the west we know today. its not even exclusive to the west. jainism is radical compared to christianity in it gives dignity and respect to all living things. human dignity did not start with christianity, that assertion ignores thousands of years of thought.
its funny that you dropped the word sinner from that line because the idea that "we need to remove the sinners" is a pervasive idea in christian thought and practice, no? then your slippery slope is something like that would never happen in christian countries like witch hunts or inquisitions. We just have to root out and burn that last sinner, oops i mean rogue.
like the ideas from adam smith, voltaire, rousseau, paine, hume, etc etc etc enlightenment thinkers deriving diginity from natural laws instead of a theistic god? much of the west we enjoy today came from a rejection not affirmation of theism and Christianity.
regardless, i cannot stress how much quicker it is to get to dehumanization from "everyone is fundamentally sinful". so much so, you can apparently hold the idea of universal human dignity as well as advocate for the literally the most immoral action possible to inflict on a human, infinite torture, heck. im not saying christianity is unique in its mistreatment of humans, but to say its better than "humans are good", i dont think so
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if we're fundamentally good, then how am i going to convince people
or else theyre going to infinitely tortured in heck
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I thought that was the whole point of purgatory, "you were good but you didn't believe so we're not letting you in the heaven club"
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thats limbo, purgatory is for christians who need need a couple thousand hours of community service. the last pope axed limbo for babies tho
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Help goyim, I'm also confused
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I'm guessing because it's a classic Xtian belief to think all people are born in sin and are fundamentally bad until they find Christ
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Catholics saw Jewish guilt and then perfected it. Just born? Filthy sinner is sucking on his mother's tit.
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