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Reported by:
  • Unbroken : I am contractually obligated to agree with Scott Alexander on any topic on which his opinion is know
  • JohnnyAppleSneed : why dont u marry the motte if u love it so much
  • of_blood_and_salt : im already married.... to justice

Man Becomes Communal Property, Is Confused By Optimization Heck Which Results | TheMotte, or: "Intellects as Unknowing Slaves to the State"

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/the-reluctant-prophet-of-effective-altruism

One of the things I want to write about is how the systemic thinking that typifies the STEM mindset fails really hard upon encountering multidimensional optimization problems, sometimes referred to in the online STEMlord literature as 'multipolar traps.'

For those of you who haven't been paying attention to a fringe group of would-be philanthropists who became preoccupied with the question: how can we most philanthropy? How philanthropy is the best mostest, even goodest philanthrope?

At first glance the question of being Effective with your Altruism would be noncontroversial. The Effective Altruists demonstrated the failure of neoliberalism's dominant decision-making paradigm: data-driven. Known as the CYA principle at work, data-driven decision methodologies constrained choices to those which could be validated prior to their active implementation.

It constrains the imagination to that which is possible to run, as if laundry, through a committee, and committees are the death of intellect unless they are bound to the will of a competent executive.

This poor fellow, profiled by one of the few papers who maintained reality sketchers on payroll (most reality sketches are worthless, so reality sketching is a rare skill, highly prized by none except the true aristocracy who know its occasional vast power, and certainly not useful for telling the news.), is a perfect symbolic figurehead for the failure of the STEM way of thinking to produce or provide leadership for a country on the rocks as a ship with a mutiny ongoing. These people are focused on dreams and fantasies of good. The concept of 'the individual' confuses this individual: that is how far he has been disconnected from himself as he has entangled himself in a quest to measure numbers of good.

Freddie DeBoer tried to help these people, you know. They didn't take it well.


:#marseysigh:


I'm going to get real with you. The reason I'm here is I'm still bitter.

Here's who I am: an actual fricking historian. It doesn't matter what credentials I have or don't have.

What you know if you read history, and particular, the history of movements generally referred to with fascism, is that the hardest part will be convincing the moderates who don't want it to be true that it's here.

So I, being or at least feeling young, still, took the symptoms of 2016 and I went to an enclave of people whose politics I thought were moderate, and whose logic I thought was sound. And I pointed to the signs and symptoms, and I tried to give them clues.

I was thwarted.

I was thwarted by Scott Alexander, who invited online reactionaries into his spirit dirigible.

See I was hitting the notes I wanted to hit. There was the eternal male ressentiment, which I expected, as communities around a figure are shadows of the conscious mind of that figure. Scott Alexander's writings resolved or revolved around male ressentiment, so as men gathered to discuss politics, the politics of womanhood were a natural expectation. Some of the people I talked to on these topics would go on to be outed as naked misogynists. This is where the abusers went to justify their abuse of women, after the fact. Creeps and losers are not a good market segment for your political forum. The expression of male angst is only useful as far as it is being converted into masculine adulthood. Older males must help.

I was helping, actually. I just tried to remind these men that the more they enabled their anger against the divine feminine because it is feminine, they more they are rebelling against the divinity they, by their nature, must worship. The image of femininity you have is the image you will create. What she does to you because she is woman is what you deserve, it's ok to feel sad for a while and move on.

Simple rhetorical strategy: talk to people in the language they understand, be of use to them.

And then when I found racists I said it was racism. When I found admiration for authoritarian figures I said that sounded suspiciously authoritarian.

I pointed to the fascist smoke pouring in. The eyes ears nose jaw of a wolf.

Woke Derangement Syndrome is being unable to see that the present Republican party has become a party organized by someone calling for violence under a false reality because your popularity online was based largely on standing up for men in politics online. Whether or not there is legitimate grievance with individual feminists, the grievance cannot be said to be well-founded if it is causing gross errors of this magnitude.

So people noticed when I left. No one wants to see how they look from the outside, even if that outside is colored heavily by my own perception. Writing "White Men Can't Dance" is one of the top ten things I've ever written. I think it holds up well.

But I also think this holds up well.

I left the Culture War Threads before they became TheMotte. The fact that I'm also banned from TheMotte is only because they know I'm still the writer who wrote and meant "White Men Can't Dance." I'm unrepentant of my insulting condescension to the people who thought that what they did is writing. You have taken the greatest gift--free criticism on demand--and managed to neuter it. You live in an island of poor thinking built by the rules of a false civility.

I go in and out of phases hate-reading TheMotte. Mostly because I knew I'd write this post one day. A confession of my sins: Father, O Lord, I have hurt these people. I thought I could get through to them and I was arrogant. I thought my persuasive charms would do the trick.

I'm still bitter.

But what I'm not bitter about? I'm not bitter about flaming out, that was a good choice. There's no trying harder. I'm not bitter about getting banned. To find out who rules over you, find out who you're not allowed to criticize: the implicit message of my ban was always "Not allowed to criticize white men."

TheMotte is a Confederacy of Dunces.


Let's have a highlight reel of moderation choices made at TheMotte. I'll spare a Motte from having to write copy: "Impassionata provides a cherry-picked set of samples of our moderation, when we have to deal with extremists on both sides in about equal number and they're equally insane and appear equally insane to the other!"

Sorry, but these moderation samples tell the pattern. See what we have here is late-stage evaporative cooling.

All of the sane normal people came into the culture war thread and found the open racists. On pointing to the racists, they were told: don't point, that's rude.

And the normal people left.

This happened to so many people that one of them created a term for the progressions of burning out of discourse with the dunces.

But what becomes radically, even viscerally apparent as you contemplate this effect of banning negative feedback on certain topics, is the moderation. Take a look at this

Or this one, which I will excerpt, because it's hilarious:

Yes, the guy who incited the riot said that they should march to the capitol and "show strength".

The guy before him at the rally suggested "trial by combat".

This is a two movies scenario, in which you believe these are clear calls to violence for the purpose of changing election outcomes and I do not.

I was watching the movie that happened instead of "charitably interpreting" everything Trump says to mean something reasonable. I don't know what movie you're watching.

This comment earned a 1-week ban by the head moderator.


So leftwing perspectives were banned for being too straightforward and correct and hurting the feelings of those who were there to pontificate among friends. Intellectual inquiry!


Where it all went wrong of course could only be understood in retrospect. One of the funny little things about Scott Alexander's communities is they developed sidecars. Communities, on the side, which had a shared audience. The racists would go to their sidecar community, say the mask-off thing, and then put a mask on for the rightoid masquerade. The goal of the fascist masquerade is to perform the postmodern fascist dance moves. Keep Race and IQ as talking points, and throw up a huge fit about free speech when the community thought a break from that might be a good idea. That sort of thing.

And then it came out that Scott Alexander was conscious that he was seeking an audience in online neoreactionaries. He went to the racists and fascists and said: here, step inside my spirit dirigible.

And the hole in the dirigible from people leaving caused it to whiz out of control.

Scott Alexander's Home for Lost and Confused Boys, it says on the dirigible.


Scott wrote a dream he had, the other day. About a prophet and a bishop.

A man sent forth to live in paper forever struggles with effective altruism. As if in from a religious fervor indistinguishable from Christian neurosis. "I don't know, I guess I might be the guy to speak for the movement." "Things are complicated."

... Don't laugh. Ok, laugh a little.

The problem the Effective Altruists have is they think they're counter-cultural but they're merely cultural, an outgrowth of the obsessive need to improve applied through the usual forms of technique (in the sense Ellul describes--briefly, 'technique' is the perfection of execution accomplished by training to which we are forced to kneel, the skill of ritual by which excellence is summoned forth from the void. Practice, but with the philosophical understanding that technique rules our society in that we are bent by it into something inhuman; we become the machine, but of course all theories end that way). Generally thinking of themselves as strong thinkers because they could read and memorize information, and do the normal calculations, they nevertheless did not seem to comprehend the reality that they were in.

The Effective Altruists sent out a call for proposals: I propose that they disband. Those who have organizations for a cause, operate those organizations for that cause. There is no need for an umbrella. You've come to the microphone, your 'leader' has said hello and that he doesn't know how to figure any of this movement stuff out, get off the stage or put something out.

The bishops of our time spent so much time doing numbers proving they had only made data-driven decisions. This made it impossible for them to question the assumptions of that which they were generally ordered to do.

The bishops of our time liked to contemplate theoretical threats and disregard real ones, and in fact they conjured up elaborate reasons why there was no fascism and those who called it such were themselves extremists.

Just this week, the mouthpiece for the fascist movement declared itself the true leader again and there are renewed threats of violence.


So, my friends. I am quite sure that were I to create an Impassionata account on TheMotte it would be swiftly banned.

But surely we can flood TheMotte with questions about fire alarms and pulling them? It doesn't have to be overt.

48
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That site is so fricking boring it wont last a month

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Reported by:
  • Unbroken : Impassionata has a medical condition causing her to be incapable of this. It's rude to mention it...

You should consider the possibility that maybe you're wrong.


:#marseyklennycross:

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about what specfically

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Any of it, but the part where Mottizens are fascists because they don't cut women a blank check could use some examination.


:#marseyklennycross:

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Some subset of Mottizens were actual fascists intent on spreading their ideology. That part is a matter of pure and simple fact.

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:marseyseethe:

However to be fair:

  1. When you are attacked by a women and it leads to bleeding and you hit back and knock them out vs when you are hit by a man and it leads to bleeding and you knock them out; which one is likely to be booed by society even though in both situations you did the right thing and which one is likely to be cheered?

  2. When you go to a therapist in which scenario are you more likely to be diagnosed as a sociopath even if in both cases you did the exact same thing. The one where you hit a woman or the one where you hit a man?

Gender biases are a fact of life, the question is are they existent to an unacceptable and intolerable degree.

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I'm not saying mottizens are never wrong about women, just that it doesn't make them fascists.

Personally I believe you don't get to hit a woman back if she hits you, but a woman who think that makes it okay to hit you is a piece of shit.


:#marseyklennycross:

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Personally I believe you don't get to hit a woman back if she hits you, but a woman who think that makes it okay to hit you is a piece of shit.

lol. I would hit her equally hard and after that she can decide how far she wants to escalate.

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Hitting her equally hard is unfair because she's half your size so it's like twice the hit.

This is the whole problem, guys HILARIOUSLY outmatch girls, it's r-slurred that God designed us this way but that was His will so we have to make do with the responsibility of being crazily physically superior.


:#marseyklennycross:

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Hitting her equally hard is unfair because she's half your size so it's like twice the hit.

if a male midget kicks you in the balls would you consider hitting them equally hard fair?

That's the whole issue ain't it. For men you are taught to be responsible to keep your hands to yourself and you are stupid if you attack someone twice your size. But for foids suddenly every moid should know to only hit back if equally huge. All bullshit.

If someone does not have the maturity to not physically attack you, then they lose the right to not getting equal hands back.

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So hit them back half as hard (or a quarter as hard, if you're particularly strong). That way they learn not to hit you, but you're not pulling a Fallon Fox and going into total overkill. There's a reasonable middle ground between "Let foids get away with whatever they want, even physical violence" and "Use your superior strength to beat the shit out of her."

Women are more physically fragile and should be treated much more delicately than men, but that doesn't mean letting them get away with whatever abusive behavior they want like they're some sort of goddess you need to worship. That would encourage your foid's worst narcissistic impulses and is exactly how you wind up in an abusive relationship. I know this firsthand because I was too permissive with my ex-wife's abusive behavior and it resulted in her becoming a total piece of shit.

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Nobody has any moral obligation to retaliate with silk gloves.

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More comments

>Hitting her equally hard is unfair because she's half your size so it's like twice the hit.

That just sounds like a great way to teach a much needed life lesson

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the real problem with the motte is that it is 1% interesting stuff (like Trace's gay Mormon posts, or the one Russian who spergs out about random Russians I've never heard of), and 99% :marseylongpost: rightoid nonsense. it's the equivalent of having to read 19 leftist memes to see a funny one, nobody is gonna do that

signing up now

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(like Trace's gay Mormon posts

:marseylove:

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If you were also Russian you'd be perfect

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You should check the monthly quality posting. That is generally good.

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:#marseyhesright:

I give TheMotte a lot of flack for its flood of rightoid wordswordswords, but the quality contributions have always been on point. Lots of good writers there.

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I used to be featured there on a semi-regular basis lmao

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the thing is you realize it's not that hard to get featured there and you can't really be sure of the fact-checking. at some point the rush fades because you realize you're helping grant the place legitimacy with your presence. cc @TracingWoodgrains

I will admit though that there's some good shit still in the QCs, sometimes, but it's a lot worse than effing /r/bestof really.

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you realize you're helping grant the place legitimacy with your presence.

I post on Twitter and reddit too, unfortunately :marseyshrug:

If someone's not against me, they're with me. If they wanna listen to what I have to say, I wanna say it to them.

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oh yeah and everyone's got their line. You had your own show of stepping out at one point!

If I could get SotS off of reddit I wouldn't have to go there anymore.

Part of writing all of this is to get the whole disaster off my mind. I won't bear a grudge towards the new place. One way or another 2016-2020 is likely to become irrelevant soon: the realities are converging.

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You had your own show of stepping out at one point!

I did! And I created a lovely, quiet community full of people I like, where people sometimes even post things! It's great, and I'm glad I did it. But I never planned to quit posting at TheMotte entirely. I don't like the sum effect, but I'm very fond of a lot of the people there

But yeah, glad you could write your Ultimate MotteTake. Was a good read.

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thanks but it's unpolished and gross. this is one to sharpen and refine. Add an overlay on the subject of fascism. As above, so below. Three times. See what I mean? The exchange of fealty is reality believed.

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>it's a lot worse than effing /r/bestof

that's one of the meanest things anyone has ever said to me

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In my time I've been featured on /r/bestof and the old SSC culture war QC thread. And bestof is the better buzz.

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Leftist online culture correctly got rid of all the r-slurred rightoids, but in doing so they also threw the baby out with the bath water and killed the acceptability of bantering and having a good time. TheMotte is the r-slurred rightoids without the ability to banter and have fun.

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So I finally finished the whole thing and yeah, I really think you need to consider the possibility that rather than being banned for being a persecuted clear eyed truth teller, you really did just act like a jerk and get banned for acting like a jerk.

The Motte doesn't let you act like a jerk, no matter how justified you feel in acting like a jerk. It's the reason I don't like The Motte either, but I don't kid myself that it somehow proves that I'm right and they're wrong, it just shows I don't like being nice to people.


:#marseyklennycross:

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I didn't read OP because it was too long, but impassionista is a themotte regular and seems to catch short term bans for stuff that would get a new user perma'd. It's like he's unaware of how much he benefits from the leftoid affirmative action policy that has been in place for years.

There was another neoliberal fella named darwin who was basically like their pizzashill who has been timed out dozens of times but is still tolerated because the mods there don't want to permaban their last leftoid.

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Everyone is left poorer by the great leftoid self-segregation. It doesn't matter how much you don't want to be an echo chamber because leftoids will never leave their echo chambers to be tainted by your rightoidism as a matter of ideology.


:#marseyklennycross:

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Leftoids are right about 99% of things, and rightoids can't talk about the remaining one percent without descending into conspiracy shit, fear mongering, genocide, etc etc. Rightoids are right purely by chance, purely because they oppose leftoids on everything and happen to get lucky in a couple cases. There really is zero point in leftoids engaging with rightoids, so its only natural that they self segregate. You consider this unfortunate because it robs you of the chance to evangelize, they don't see a problem with it.

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Leftoids are wrong about lots of things, and everyone is poorer from their total inability to self-examine, which causes the problems to magnify over time.

EDIT: Even if they weren't wrong about lots of things, they should still be willing to self-examine, so they can continually confirm that they're not wrong. But they don't do that, and just assume they're right about everything, when they're frequently wrong.


:#marseyklennycross:

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The problem, not surprisingly, is rightoids. Whenever someone criticizes them, they're forced to ask "is this a genuine leftoid making a valid point? Or is this an r-slured rightoid trying to disguise rightoidism with leftoid talking points?" Since 99% of the time it's the latter, they understandably get trigger happy and forget to watch out for the remaining 1%.

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The problem is that leftoids won't just listen to and consider rightoid points made straightforwardly, which they ought to do.


:#marseyklennycross:

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None of this matters. Online politics doesn't matter. This is important, that you understand this: online politics does not matter.

What's important is who gets elected, and rightoids elect a lot of pure intent towards theocracy behind a man whose lies they willingly believe.

I'm not here because I can't see the value in a good critic of the Left.

But at least the Left will tend to stand for something.

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>Leftoids are right about 99% of things

I think for most stuff there isn't an objective right or wrong (yet). Take the race and IQ stuff, it would take some pretty invasive and unethical experiments, or at least 50 years of genomics to be able to conclusively decide the truth of this issue, with no way to tell what the ethicals choice would be if either side is right with their assumptions.

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Leftoid Flight is a real problem. We need to bus rightoids in to /r/politics en masse for equity reasons.

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I agree, but if you can't play by the same rules that bind everybody, you shouldn't play at all. Nobody should get special privileges. If the Leftoids want to leave the conversation because they can't handle people saying mean things that they disagree with, then the conversation will continue without them, and will most likely go in directions that they dislike. After all, if somebody you disagree with refuses to have a conversation with you, then by default you are at war with them, because it is only a matter of time before a misunderstanding flares up into hostility. The hostility cannot be resolved because they refuse to have a conversation in the first place - and so it eventually leads to violence. So the way I see it, if their attitude problem and refusal to engage in dialogue is eventually going to lead to violent warfare anyway, you must as well fast-forwards directly to that point so at least you can get the drop on them.

That's why people who disagree with you and are unwilling to have a discussion about it are always your enemy. If they refuse to talk, then they are choosing to fight.

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I agree, but if you can't play by the same rules that bind everybody, you shouldn't play at all. Nobody should get special privileges.

I'm inclined to agree to this; I'm here, aren't I?

The problem with strictly enforced civility ends up being not left or right, but the low-level rudeness that nevertheless permeates 'civil' conversation. You can only undergo 15 snide comments before you realize you're just getting bullied by people who are good at playing just within the rules, so you can snipe back, but then the mods come down on you.

It's better to have a free for all.

I tend to believe that TheMotte additionally suffers from the moderation policy that saying "This person is showing a racist view" or "this person is showing a fascist view" is not civil. But that's less of a problem than being unable to point to stupidity and say "That's just stupid."

Civil discourse is a myth. Those who cling to it as if it is an inherent virtue will tend to produce results like TheMotte's spiral into rightoid idiocy.

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I'm coming at this from the opposite direction as you (I'm a rightoid rather than a leftoid) but I agree with your general position. Civility is overrated because the rules of civility are always manipulated to favor the existing status quo. I think that instead of "civility" or "niceness" forums should simply have a list of value-neutral rules like "no slurs" and apply them equally to everybody regardless of race, s*x, or creed. My ideal IDW discussion forum is a place where people can be as angry and hateful as they want as long as they show all their data and reference actual scientific studies to back up their point, not debunked statistics like the feminist "1 in 4 women has been r*ped" or idiotic conspiracy stuff like the Protocols of Zion.

I was thinking of raising Dramacoin to start a Motte-equivalent hole on rdrama, basically like the existing IDW except without the necessity of being "kind." Would you be interested in something like that? I guarantee you that somebody will piss you off by verbally attacking you, but on the bright side you'll also have much fewer restrictions about hitting back against them.

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The whole point is that there are still conversations had that will hurt feelings: these people are gathered because they had their feelings hurt by woke conversation.

If you make it impossible for anyone to talk with you about a subject without banning them, the community consensus will drift.

I don't have any trouble being nice to people generally. I am in fact deliberate in this cruelty of facing the truth: there is a fascist movement on US soil, and it is the MAGA Republicans.

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If you make it impossible for anyone to talk with you about a subject without banning them, the community consensus will drift.

Yeah but I don't think it's impossible to talk about that subject, I think you were just being a jerk about it.

I've been banned from the motte on multiple names as a rightoid, and it's not because the motte hates rightoids, it's because I was a jerk.

I read your example post up there where you earned the one week ban and I'm telling you, it was justified, you were being an butthole.

"I was watching the movie that happened" with an implicit "you're a delusional r-slur" is being a jerk. It just is bro.


:#marseyklennycross:

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So long as politics consist of disagreement as to what behavior is and isn't acceptable in discussion, I don't place any special merit in avoiding being a jerk whose views are morally inferior. Morality is complicated this way, but it is not so complicated that you can hide behind complication, or force others to do so, just because what they say hurts your feelings.

You can call me a jerk, but at that point, you're just name-calling. Ad hominem. Lmao.

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Ad hominem means saying your arguments are wrong because you're a jerk. It doesn't just mean saying you're a jerk.


:#marseyklennycross:

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That was very clearly a joke.

So long as politics consist of disagreement as to what behavior is and isn't acceptable in discussion, I don't place any special merit in avoiding being a jerk to those whose views are morally inferior. Morality is complicated this way, but it is not so complicated that you can hide behind complication, or force others to do so, just because what they say hurts your feelings.

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I don't place any special merit in avoiding being a jerk

The motte does, so if you want to talk there, you have to not be a jerk.

This is not the same as banning leftist thought, it just means banning leftists who can't be nice.

Unfortunately that means basically all leftists, because literally every leftist has your same "I'm right about everything so it's okay if I'm a jerk" complex.


:#marseyklennycross:

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This is not the same as banning leftist thought, it just means banning leftists who can't be nice. Unfortunately that means basically all leftists, because literally every leftist has your same "I'm right about everything so it's okay if I'm a jerk" complex.

If you define 'being a jerk' as 'emitting a critical thought' this is the world you're going to end up in.

Whether or not you can point to a law in the service of the Lord Your God that has been broken, you still end up with an undesirable effect: a subculture without the grounding of having to hear the criticism it shouldn't be protected from.

Morality isn't as easy as adhering to rules like "don't be a jerk" you twat!

You can call that a 'complex' if you want but I'm not the one who's put out of my way, I just like spectating it because it's fascinating.

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If you define 'being a jerk' as 'emitting a critical thought'

The Motte defines being a jerk as announcing "I'm watching the movie that happened" as if you're self-evidently right and anyone who disagrees with you is an r-slur.

You can emit lots of critical thoughts without doing that.

EDIT: Your problem is that the critical thought you're trying to argue is, in fact, "I'm self evidently right and anyone who disagrees with me is an r-slur" and, no, you can't make that point on The Motte


:#marseyklennycross:

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So long as politics consist of disagreement as to what behavior is and isn't acceptable in discussion

Politics should not consist of deciding what is or isn't acceptable in discussion. Everything should be acceptable in discussion. If somebody proposes a stupid idea, it may very well be laughed at, but it shouldn't be suppressed or deplatformed. For example, "Let's kill the Jews" is a terrible idea that should never be implemented, but I would still side with the Nazi saying "Let's kill the Jews" over the Jew saying "Let's silence the Nazis" because once a person starts silencing any point of view that offends and frightens them, it's only a matter of time before they try to silence me, which obviously is totally unacceptable from my point of view.

People who try to stop you from discussing certain topics are limiting your free speech rights and they are enemies of freedom and traitors to the ideals of America. The Second Amendment exists to defend the First.

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Holy shit... You really are r-slurred.

'Let's kill X' is an even worse 'Let's silence Y'. You are still silencing them, and then killing them.

Pls do the world a favor and hang yourself, you god darn fascist.

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No, you're an r-slur. "Let's kill X" may be ten times worse than "Let's silence X," but it is about 100 times less likely to be passed into law than "Let's silence X.".

10x * 0.01 < X

If you understood probabilities and math this would be self-evident, but because you're clearly an r-slur I guess you prefer screaming about fascism than listening to your betters.

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I disagree on your numbers here. Kill is Million times worse, or whatever. I'm sure it is empirically determinable when people start to lay down their live for their right to speak, but it not done lightly.

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No, I think suppressing people's speech is fairly close to slavery because it prevents charismatic people from ever bettering themselves by bringing down the status quo, so I don't think "kill" is a million times worse, because suppression of speech is already pretty bad.

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>spirit dirigible

This has been one of your best posts ever. I want a spooky ghost airship now.

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Reported by:
  • Ivy : Mottoid

Imagine being so smoothbrained you can’t even write a proper ranting critique about themotte.

Your thought process is so top-heavy you’d rant about what sort of racist researcher put Trump’s butt crack in the Rorschach dots. Let me explain the metaphor since you won’t get it otherwise: there is nothing in the Rorschach dots, what you see is entirely made up by casting your own preconceptions on entropy, much in the same way Stable Diffusion works.

The level of insipid midwittery and nonsensical acausal bidirectional relation-based cranial dysfunction you exhibit leaves me questioning whether you’re even an authentic :marseytrain2:y. I bet you’re a legacy fricken biofoid.

Opinion dismissed.

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:#marseyclappingglasses:

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You pretty macho today bby

![](/images/1662342928523655.webp)

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Obvious midwit that has fallen into the trap of relieving conspicuous suffering. It's clear that the invention of central heating and air helped more people than mother theresa, but HVAC guys don't get to beat their chest about the lives they save.

The bucket catching water leaking from his decrepit hovel says everything you need to know. This dude can suck a fat peepee and write a book about it. Frick him.

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This was the intellectual equivalent of being driven off a cliff.

I'd explain what that means, but the paramedics are too busy scraping blobs of my psyche off the rocks.

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it came out pretty rough and raw, too, I'm going to refine it before I put it on one of my blogs

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I'm curious what your thoughts are a few days later.

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the systemic thinking that typifies the STEM mindset

How would you have any idea what this entails? You just read online bullshit.

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I touch :marseygrass: far too much grass :marseygrass: to understand what's going :marseysal2: on here

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Optimized philanthropy is doomed to fail because philanthropy itself is inevitably doomed to fail because of how ineffective and useless it usually is.

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It's amazingly good at giving its donors good feelings. What more would a business need to do?

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... which is the point of optimizing it in the first place

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Does EA even do anything worthwhile that isn't malaria eradication? It seems like a bunch of people who think they're geniuses because they're basically doing what Bill Gates told them to do. And by Saint Alexander's own admission their combined efforts don't come close to what PC Daddy did single-handedly.

What you know if you read history, and particular, the history of movements generally referred to with fascism, is that the hardest part will be convincing the moderates who don't want it to be true that it's here.

Tell that to George Orwell, lol

I was helping, actually. I just tried to remind these men that the more they enabled their anger against the divine feminine because it is feminine, they more they are rebelling against the divinity they, by their nature, must worship. The image of femininity you have is the image you will create. What she does to you because she is woman is what you deserve, it's ok to feel sad for a while and move on.

Wtf is it with libs and putting foids on a pedestal like this? I get pegged and wear cat ears and I'm not this cucked.

So leftwing perspectives were banned for being too straightforward and correct and hurting the feelings of those who were there to pontificate among friends. Intellectual inquiry!

:#marseyyes:

So, my friends. I am quite sure that were I to create an Impassionata account on TheMotte it would be swiftly banned.

They're doing you a favor bro

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I usually read this kinda nerdy shit but holy frick, please get a life

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Here's who I am: an actual fricking historian. It doesn't matter what credentials I have or don't have.

Squidward cackling.gif

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I don't know the value of going into a den of pedantic ideologues and trying to convince them they're not victims, and they have lost their grip on reality. Seems like a waste of time and effort.

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Relentless contrarianism is still malleable but you can never really meet it head on.

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:#marseylongpost:

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:#marseylongpost:

This shit is far too boring and high-brow for me.

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Wrong :marseydisagree:

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Here is the main problem with effective altruists: they don't understand that not all lives are equal. Every action helps somebody and hurts somebody else, if you follow it downstream far enough. So the real question you should ask is not "How can we save the most lives?" but rather "which lives are worth saving?"

For example, effective altruists crunch the numbers (feeling very smart and rational indeed) and calculate that the best way to save the most people is to send aid donations to some country in Africa. They go ahead and do this, feeling very smug about themselves. The aid shipment gets intercepted by one of the many local warlords, who confiscates it, because warlords followers have guns and aid workers don't. The warlord resells the shipment on the black market and uses it to buy more weapons so that he can equip his followers and take over the country. Time for some r*pe and genocide!

Did the effective altruists foresee this? While they were smugly calculating the "per unit utilons" for their good deeds, did any of them stop to think about the negative externalities of their actions? Of course not, because these people are grossly self-deluded and naively optimistic. Not one of these buttholes ever stops to say "Hey, maybe bad people do bad things and we should exercise a little judgement before we just start dropping aid everywhere. You know, like maybe think about whether the people we're helping are our friends or our enemies." Nor do they ponder that maybe helping bad people will lead them to kill good people causing more deaths overall than just doing nothing. To these idiots, saving the life of a bad person is just as good as saving the life of a good person. Bad things are the same as good things, apparently! This is your brain on effective altruism.

I'm not the biggest fan of the CIA, but at least the CIA recognizes that sometimes the greatest good you can accomplish for the greatest number of people is to deliver death to some really bad piece of shit who totally had it coming. Effective altruists though? They don't have the balls to make that calculation. To them, everything can be resolved by being nice and helping people. The idea that killing bad people is every bit as noble and worthy a pursuit as helping good people is something that these fricking kitties will never be able to wrap their minds around, and that's why I have so little respect for them. (To be clear, I like the rationalist community, I just think that the effective altruists within that community are hypocrites.)

I'm not saying that their practice of calculating allocation of resources based on maximizing a goal is wrong, it's actually a really good way of doing things. I'm saying that they have a shitty goal and even if their goal was good, their calculations for reaching it are way off and the farthest thing from "effective."

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I don't know what you said, because I've seen another human naked.

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Alright, which one of you is sending nudes to the bot?

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I agree with the start, but i ain't reading all that. But i"m sure the rest is good too :marseythumbsup:

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:#marseyoctopus3:

It would have been perfect with a posted bussy ending

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tl;dr

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Throughout human history, the #1 danger to females always has been males of every variant. The venom, the threats of violence by XY and the never ending attempts to silence endless number of women who dare stand up for themselves and other females is staggering but not surprising. Right of girls and women are not to be subsumed by XY pretending to be XX.

Snapshots:

They didn't take it well:

this:

created a term:

this:

this one:

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