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EFFORTPOST Scientist tendie flinging drama on researchgate.

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Does-wave-function-in-Quantum-mechanics-have-a-unit

								

								

So apparently researchgate has its own forums and some of the interactions kind of remind me of quora drama in the sense it's a bunch of third world r-slurs who think too much of themselves.

It starts with a basic question by Halo A. Abdulkhalaq:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841360485921297.webp

Does wave function (in Quantum mechanics) have a unit?

Ulrich Mutze, who from now on is the protagonist of this thread, responds first with the only useful (albeit slightly condescending) contribution to this thread:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841360488670983.webp

The answer is simple. The dimension of the wave function is set such that the scalar product in state space is dimension-less (since probability is dimension-less by definition). This gives different dimensions to wave functions in 'position representation' and in 'momentum representation' (and whatever 'representations' you may use).

Saeid Soheyli of Buali Sina University wanders into the thread, to give another answer which restates our dear Dr. Mutze's answer but does it much worse:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841360491977303.webp

The dimension of probability density is the inverse of length, the inverse of area, and the inverse of volume in one dimensional, two dimensional, and three dimensional space, respectively. Therefore, the dimension of the wave function is the square root of 1/length, 1/length^2, and 1/length^3 for one, two, and three dimensional spaces, respectively.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841360488670983.webp

Saeid, why do you ignore the possibility that wave functions refer to momentum space?

At this point I'm beginning to suspect our dear Dr. Soheyli is kinda r-slurred.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841360491977303.webp

Dear Ulrich My answer is limited to the one, two, or three dimensional spatial space. Therefore, in momentum space, the dimension of the wave function is similar to the above, provided that the length is replaced by the linear momentum.

Ulrich becomes mildly annoyed and passive aggressively says:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841360488670983.webp

OK, but all this is already expressed in the first contribution to this thread. Sometimes reading the precedent contributions is useful.

OP sees it devolving and intervenes.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841360485921297.webp

Thanks for both of you Mr. Ulrich and Mr. Saeid. your reply is useful and appreciated.

It seems Dr. Mutze's bloodlust is interrupted for now and unfortunately we will be getting no more passive aggressiveness, condescension or rslurration from this thread anymore.

Luckily our journey doesn't end here. Himangshu Prabal Goswami of the Max Planck Institute for the Physics of Complex Systems (the first institution here that isn't a random no name) jumps in 4 days later to save the thread with an unironically r-slurred take:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841360494250028.webp

The wave function does have dimensions, depending on what space you use to represent it. Say, the spherical polar co-ordinate system,eg. 1s=1/(sqrt[pi ao^3])Exp[-r/ao]. So its dimensions are L^(-3/2). You can reduce the dimensions as well.

It essentially comes from the interpretation of the wave-function. |Psi(q,t)|^2=1. So the volume element, dq, will determine the dimension and that will be reflected in the normalisation constant. Anyway, although wave-function is a very useful tool, I agree with lot of books which states, it has no physical meaning. That makes it useless to check its dimensions.

Ulrich immediately smells blood in the water:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841360488670983.webp

Himangshu, the logic of physics is complicated enough that it is not always easy to express it unambiguously in our language. Saying that the wave function has no physical meaning may create a wrong impression for some readers. Saying that it has no direct physical meaning is more precise. Think of the four-vector potential A in electrodynamics. In the 19th century it was considered as a merely mathematical tool. Then quantum theory came and it turned out that A is the primary quantity that transmits electromagnetic interaction. So the indirect physical meaning changed into a direct one. Dimensions have to be right for formal consistency. The need for handling them correctly has noting to do with physical meaning. So your last sentence is strongly misleading.

Himangshu reveals he is a chemist. :marseychemist: This explains everything and if for some incomprehensible reason you at all still cared what he had to say, you can safely know the opposite of anything he says is true.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841360494250028.webp

Dear Harry and Ulrich, I agree to whatever you say. The wavefunction is indeed the most beautiful tool for a chemist. What I fail to comprehend is the utility of adding dimensions to particular quantity, which has no physical essence. Dimensions essentially as per as I believe is the conditional ability to add reality to its mathematical description so as to converge more in to the physical intuition, as in the vector potentials. To the wave function, till this date, association with reality has been denied/debated. Hence I made that statement. If you have an alternative and more convincing description, please free to rectify me. You guys have been into this field more than I have. And I will be happy to correct myself.

Some :marseytunaktunak: barges in 6 months later to semi-incoherently give an even worse answer than any answer given previously. Side note, his profile itself is rslurred:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841360496348999.webp

I work on High Energy Physics theory. Standard model of particle physics, which is very well established today, has a fairly long list of unknown parameters. The number of unknown parameters is likely to increase once dark matter and dark energy problems are addressed.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841360498362024.webp

Anyways, his contribution:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841268188627224.webp

Actually it is a very good question.

Wikipedia says that

"For example, for a 3-dimensional wave function the amplitude

has a "bizarre" dimension [L^βˆ’3/2]."

Interesting point to note is that when you are solving an one

dimensional problem the probability amplitude has a

different dimension from what is quoted above. In a one

dimensional problem psi^2 dx is dimensionless so psi

has a dimension L^-1/2

In a two dimensional problem psi^2 dxdy has to be

dimensionless so psi has a dimension L^-1.

Luckily our protagonist is still monitoring the thread, passive aggression at the ready:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841268193263638.webp

@Biswajoy

Actually not only the question is good. Good are also some answers. These render your's superfluous.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841268188627224.webp

Ulrich: There is no harm in appreciating a good question or

a good answer. Many people might have identical thoughts.

I did not find a note in this thread which points to the fact that

the dimension of wave function depends on the type of problem

you are solving. Such as 1-D, 2-D or 3-D. This is a simple fact but

requires to be stressed specially for non-experts. That was the reason

behind my posting.

At this point this guy makes poor Ulrich miss even Saeid:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841268193263638.webp

@Biswajoy

For your information: the second contribution (by Saeid Soheyli) gives the relation to space dimension explicitely.

Fast forward 4 years:

A few boring posts have happened but nothing interesting. Luckily a new lolcow has come to save the day, James Robinson:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/168413605012889.webp

szabo and ostlund - modern quantum chemistry, 1989, p42, wavefunction shown as a0^3/2, 2.5978E15 m^-3/2.

What did he mean by this? :marseypregunta:

Ulrich is on the case!

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841268193263638.webp

Dear James,

unless you tell us how a comma separated pair of values can stand for a wavefunction and whether m stands for a particle mass or for the SI unit of length your contribution makes no sense to me.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/168413605012889.webp

a0 is 0.52918 Angstroms (1 bohr if memory is correct) and the m is meters, there was a typing error, the conversion factor for psi to si units is a0^-3/2, which is 2.5978E15 and the units are meters^(-3/2). Apologies.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841268193263638.webp

James,

in addition to the dimension (in 3-dimensional position space --- as opposed to momentum space) you also give numerical values. As far as dimension is concerned, many of the previous answers gave this already. Hopefully you are aware of the fact that the numerical value is irrelevant (or meaning-less) in the context of the original question.

At this point this r-slur deserves to be beat to death with a stick and if anything our protagonist goes too easy on him.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/168413605012889.webp

Hi Ulrich, I meant to provide a numerical simple example. :marseybrainlet:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841268193263638.webp

In a physics examination the professor pointed out of the window to the sky and asked the student: You see the clouds all around --- why they don't fall down, given that they consist of water which undoubtedly is heavier than air? The student plays for time and asks: Which of the many clouds do you refer to?

The idea that a 'simple numerical example' would enlighten any aspect of our question looks to me not more reasonable than this student's question.

Waleed Alawsey

https://i.rdrama.net/images/1684136050339008.webp

Thanks for the question :marseywave2:

To this day (a year ago) people are still occasionally giving worse variations of the same answers in this 9 year old thread.

186
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None of this matters if you realize that physics is a white construct

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Wrong, physics is done by Jews who can be non mayos if the situation requires. So it averages out to a mulatto field. Also the entire thread except Ulrich is BIPOCs.

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The jew being a superposition of white and non-white eigenraces is nothing new. But race isnt real, so the race operator doesnt spit out real eigenvalues and cant be hermitian. So how do we get our race states?? We use the privilege operator which definitely is real, so we happily get our hilbert race space. An interesting fact is that the privelge operator commutes with the hamiltonian, so its time invarient! (Mayocide today, mayocide tommorow, mayocide forever) God i love physics

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race operator is skew-hermitian frfr no cap

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Physics joke :marseyill:

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lol JΓΌdische Physik lmao

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The strange thing about people like Ulrich (G*rmans) is that they can have German surnames without being Jewish. A phenomenon which in it's deceptiveness ironically adopts a Jewish character

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Pffft, calculus is a pommie thing

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:#marseygrouns:

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>None of this matters if you realize that physics is a white construct

This sentence is just the Sokal Affair.

If you don't know what that is, strap in for lulz.

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:#chadno:

:#marseytunaktunak::#marseytunaktunak::#marseytunaktunak::#marseytunaktunak::#marseytunaktunak:

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I accidentally spent 40 minutes on this instead of studying and you didn't even read. :marseycry:

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I read it lol but i'm too r-slurred to figure out what they were arguing about

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Point is everyone except Ulrich is rslurred but Ulrich is a massive straggot.

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He seems pretty based to me

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My brother :marseyembrace: I didn't pick a career with way less opportunities to comprehend STEM BS on my offtime :marseyno:

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I am STEM but not quantum mechanics level of STEM

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Quantum mechanics is just linear algebra tbh.

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:#marseyschizotwitch:

I might be a chink but I'm an r-slured one please stop re-traumatising me with memories of college math :marseyraging:

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Sounds like your ricecel license is at risk of being revoked.

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might be because i was born in the land of the free

:#marseylibertyfireworks:

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More comments

you put the pics to match the convo and for that reason I upmarsey'd


Krayon sexually assaulted his sister. https://i.rdrama.net/images/17118241526738973.webp https://i.rdrama.net/images/17118241426254768.webp https://i.rdrama.net/images/17156480765435808.webp

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:marseylove:

Two of them refuse to embed still and idk how to fix it. :marseyrain:

@Aevann

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wym

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NVM I'm rslurred sorry. I wasn't linking the actual image url.

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:@#kissingerfanboyyescarppat:

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![](/images/16658169978058946.webp)

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Reminds me of stack exchange where youll always have a very simple and elegant first answer given years ago followed by a hundred idiots giving their "novel" take on the question that introduce gaping holes in the logic and arguing with anyone who points them out

Good thread op :marseyclapping:

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stack exchange drama is great. especially when you realize that the rep system is basically tied to moderation powers outside of like being able to suspend users, so the most online users self select for being essentially the mods which causes a nice bit of drama in of itself

i think it's also kinda funny that all of the useful questions or answers are the ones that are locked or marked as a duplicate or whatever

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And then the original asker accepts the shortest answer that's completely incorrect because they're too fricking stupid to know better since they're asking in the first place.

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Yes, the key is to give the correct answer to the question without any examples or equations so that when others include them in their answers, you can passive aggressively state that their reply is superfluous and nit pick it to death.

As any teacher will know, pedantry is the surest sign of erudition, and students must learn without specific examples which only serve to narrow the mind.

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I didn't even notice he didn't give any examples, adds a whole extra layer to our protagonist. His answer is still the best until Himangishu's until Himangishu ends his answer with rslurration.

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Old Ulrich triggered me lol. I took a QM course through edX where there was someone like him on the class forums. He’d give the right answer, but it’d never be specific or include an example that would make it actually useful to us rslurred students. Ulrich’s answer is the type that is an epiphany moment for students near end of the class when the big ideas finally snuggle into their brains, and they can actually reason about what they’re doing instead of doing it rote.

Being a TA in college showed me that using many, many examples is king for understanding, and students are like babies. Putting yourself in their shoes when you’re teaching is like trying to remember what it was like to not know how to read and then explaining what sentences are.

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Theyre all nerds :marseyreading::marseynerd:

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it wouldn't really be meaningful to give an example

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Depends on the level. Some r-slur 2nd year probably doesn't know what a scalar product even is.

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I think an example is useful for making things more concrete. β€œIt depends on the representation” is true but doesn’t show how to go from representation to units, and most of the time people posting on these forums and students really just want answers to their problem sets/exams lol.

Our class solved the particle in a box in one dimension problem over and over until this shit clicked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_in_a_box

For rslurs, it spits out an equation that just says the particle has to be in the box (integral of the probability density over the length L of the box is 1).

https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/47d0d6b3a4882e7f4a6358c2bb8ac12490566109

The probability density is the same thing as the scalar product in this case is the wave function abs’d and squared thing. It’s akin to squaring a real number or getting the squared magnitude of a vector but accounts for fancier things like complex numbers. And for units, it just squares them.

Integrating over a length for units just means multiply by length.

You can pretty much read the units off that equation with that info:

wave_function_units^2 * length = 1

which gives:

wave_function_units = sqrt(1/length)

And now Ulrich would get on my butt for not including the two dimensional case or the momentum representation and not being precise enough about scalar products.

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If you left it at that without mentioning the general case I'd be team Ulrich tbh.

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Haha oh my god your a physics nerd! That’s so cool that you’re really smart and understand all this and your on this site with the rest of us. Get on the altar

:marseyjaguarwarrior::marseyjaguarwarrior::marseyjaguarwarrior::marseyjaguarwarrior:

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There's nothing especially smart to understand there. Most people on rdrama seem to be professionals of some kind that understand as or more complicated things, just with different specialties.

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>Most people on rdrama seem to be professionals

This is news to me, and if true… this changes my perception of the website entirely. I had thought for a long time that the only β€œpros”on here are the professional r-slurs, full time job.

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It's full of coding socks, doctors, lawyers, engineers, businesscels, etc. The fact dramatards can be these professions shows how rslurred members of even most "smart" professions are.

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It's one of the things I enjoy of the community, the occasional glimpse of wisdom and occasional wholesome post in a sea of cynical r-sluration

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It's kind of a greypill

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@A effort post?

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:vert::psi::!angle2::equals::a::0::3::slash::2::space::marseylaugh:

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Based, since when do we have Greek letter Marseys?

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Marsey Alphabet / Marsey Math expanded greatly a few months back thanks to the generous contributions of @FeynmanDidNothingWrong. The madlad even did an :hbar: for me. Most things are named following LaTeX convention where that was compatible with rDrama emoji namespacing.

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That's actually awesome, thanks @FeynmanDidNothingWrong.

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Thank you for the great thread bb:marseyblowkiss::marseyclapping::marseylove:

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This is all gibberish you made up stop lying.

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Your old pfp was better.

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I know but I’m on a Shonen kick rn

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Still on the Shonen kick...

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Too lazy to change

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Enjoyable effort post, nice job OP.

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Excellent writeup, and extra points for being a non-political post

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why was that so interesting


Secured my spot as a top 100 most memorable rdrama poster

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:#marseygigaretard::marseythumbsup:

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Some of the biggest spergouts happen here or on stackexchange.

A lot of academics are shockingly, high-grade neurodivergents and have the same emotional attachment to specific worldviews/theories or even just weird inconsequential shit that neckbeards do with their waifus or animes.

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To be fair, the stupid bullshit they get hung up over pays the bills, making them the most pragmatic of internet argumentative neurodivergents.

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I miss learning quantum mechanics :#marseyschrodinger:. Phy Chem is the second most enjoyable course for me after my beloved Inorg Chem :marscientist:.

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Himangshu reveals he is a chemist. :marseychemist: This explains everything and if for some incomprehensible reason you at all still cared what he had to say, you can safely know the opposite of anything he says is true.

I take it back. Some of you are alright, don't come to rdrama tomorrow.

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Eh, anyway how did someone forgot the concept of probability density? You need that to construct atomic orbital.

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The guy is just a massive rslur.

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In my experience they only care about the energy eigenvalues :marseyill:

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https://arpa-e.energy.gov/news-and-media/press-releases/us-department-energy-announces-10-million-study-low-energy-nuclear

Physics bros... Did we get too cocky and cause nuclear war by helping Europe get addicted to Russian gas?

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The answer is simple. The dimension of the wave function is set such that the scalar product in state space is dimension-less (since probability is dimension-less by definition). This gives different dimensions to wave functions in 'position representation' and in 'momentum representation' (and whatever 'representations' you may use).

In other words the framus intersects with the ramistan approximately at the paternostra. EZ

Trans lives matter

:#trumpjaktalking:

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This is almost a snallypost, good job.

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Finally a good thread

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As someone that knows quite a bit of probability theory, but nothing about physics, can someone explain to my rslurred brain what this statement means:

>since probability is dimension-less by definition

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They mean probability is an actual real number without units appended to it.

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So physicists define dimension as having a physical unit? R^2, for example, is dimensionless?

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dimension means unit

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*Except when it means dimension.

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Depends on context basically but yes, they would say "R^2 is dimensionless but has 2 dimensions."

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It's incredibly important to keep track of if a number refers to length, mass, or time, otherwise you know you fricked up big time and have to do it over again.

Like, if i want to go 30 miles in 60 minutes, my speed has to be 30 miles per hour. If i do some math and get the my speed has to be 60 kilograms, i fricked up.

Stuff like probability isn't in meters, seconds, grams or whatever, so there is no unit. Other dimensionless stuff like ratios come up often.

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All this bitching about units is giving me ptsd back to high school physics where I'd lose points for not including units in my answer. Imagine not abstracting everything away to arbitrary sets.

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This is a thoroughly impressive effortpost

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Phenomenal thread.

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I'm a chemist and wouldn't even attempt to try to remember my quantum and thermo for this discussion. I probably make more than these eggheads do tho

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Does wave function (in Quantum mechanics) have a unit?

If you were smart enough to know but not neurodivergent your first word would be yes or no. After that you would give the exact unit name if one exists or the closest approximation. Only after that would you go into the depths of why things are the way they are.

The issue with neurodivergents is that every time you ask them does a house have a door they will build the entire house first to then point at the door.

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After that you would give the exact unit name if one exists or the closest approximation.

Wdym unit name? The guy specifically explained what the units where and how they depended on the situation, he didn't do anything neurodivergent here.

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electricity unit - watts

Weight unit - grams

Height unit - inches

Wave function unit - four fricking sentences of explanation.

Sure thing buddy.

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Ok now give me the name of units for n-dimensional volume.

:soyjakanimeglasses:

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Yes.

The volume of a n-ball of radius R is R n V n , {\displaystyle R^{n}V_{n},} {\displaystyle R^{n}V_{n},} where V n {\displaystyle V_{n}} V_{n} is the volume of the unit n-ball, the n-ball of radius 1.

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Ok but that's not a name and I notice your explanation has gotten pretty long. Also why the heck did you choose the volume of an n ball as your unit of volume lmao.

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That's not my fault that's just more proof physicists are nerds who cannot name things if their lives depended on it.

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I AM THE JESUS CHRIST OF NOT BEING A P-DO

Snapshots:

https://i.imgur.com/a/vxLIERq:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841292270863233.webp:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/168412922755555.webp:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841292278092608.webp:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841292280435758.webp:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841292284010665.webp:

https://i.imgur.com/a/PsiUuu6:

https://i.imgur.com/a/7uUZgys:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841292287627354.webp:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16841292291482894.webp:

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relevant

:#trumpjaktalking:

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Passive aggressive scientists with like 4 phds is funny. Boomer moment

Trans lives matter

:#trumpjaktalking:

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