@ObamaBinLaden say this as a a feminist ally
let's get this shit out of the way first, don't want too see it get deleted because of this cuck quote
One other things - @ObamaBinLaden know how touchy jeets are about their country's achievements. The most educated jeet is no better than the worst fent addicted hillbilly in misguided patriotism. If you are one of those, ROPE. NOW.
How the fuck did they fumble a design so hard.
Don't fucking tell @ObamaBinLaden too Wikipedia the history of Maruti, it loops back into itself
(Before any of you bharatias come at @ObamaBinLaden with the bullshit cookies cutter excuse, yes @ObamaBinLaden too have read the wikipedia article which says it was a nepo job by the then prime minister's son, the minister herself being a nepo placement because her father was the first prime minister)
That doesn't excuse shit. The USSR was a corrupt shithole and yet they still produced at least aesthetically pleasing cars. Cars which didn't make you gag the moment you laid eyes on them.
Both cars are from the erstwhile soviet bloc, made in the 70s and 80s.
Being a poor country didn't mean shit. The Indians were deeply embedded in the soviet bloc of influence, buying redundant shitty weapons from Soviets (like they are still doing till date) at billions.
Now all of us know the Soviets being commiebrained ( !anticommunists your chance to laugh at something the commies were hilariously bad at), they never really grasped what supply chain manufacturing in consumer durables is and thought cars were a luxury, even though just considering the European part of Russia, it's still the 7th largest country in the world, bigger than india, Argentina etc.
Commietardness is the opium of the politburo
- Karl Mersk
However the russkies failed because they had no organizational skills. Even after Albert Kahn with his 300 IQ jewbrain showed the vodka guzzling neanderthals how too streamline manufacturing, increase management efficiency, the russkies, being dumber than a medically brain-dead pygmy thought "oh ooga booga, streamline manufacturing? Ivan use only for missiles too blow capitalist pigdogs". They sneered at Taylor and Fayol's managerial theories and saw marketing and sales as a satanic ritual. It was over before it even began. We need people too be car salesmen? Just create a new layer of state bureaucracy thats job is too do that.
Sauce for nerds - Scientific Management, Socialist Discipline, and Soviet Power. Cambridge, Mass: Harvard University Press, 1988.
But still, @ObamaBinLaden could argue, the Indian government could have taken the designs from the USSR and then proceeded too make it in India with whatever cost cutting they wanted. It's not because of price point or security. It's not like they were ever mindful of safety and security.
You can check the crash test ratings of currently available cars for domestic sale (not counting imports) in india.
https://www.globalncap.org/safercarsforindia
@ObamaBinLaden couldn't find a single maruti car with a rating above 2.0. Where as another domestic company, Mahindra, without any global brand name tag like Suzuki attached too it, scored a 4. So, it's not likely that Indian companies can't manufacture an acceptable personal automobile. Why has the Maruti Suzuki failed so spectacularly then
Point of concern - @ObamaBinLaden is not talking about sales, the maruti cars did well, but the truth is that it only did well because India put high tariffs on imports and pricey licenses too dissuade other companies from building factories. @ObamaBinLaden haven't seen such brazenly thuggish behavior from any other country, not even the USSR. The other companies only started too pop up after India opened itself up too international trade and let go of its license raj in the post soviet 1991 era.
Nobody is judging a 1980s car by today's standards. However if it didn't/doesn't hurt the eyes, you knew they were going too get better with time
Accord 1980
Accord 2024
So the country had neither its own designs, it stole them from anyone it could, decided on the ugliest piece of shit design, then put tariffs too disincentivize competition, paired up with a globally recognized brand too lend itself a false sense of debonair, failed spectacularly outside India, went inwards again, and has remained in that same state of decay and stagnation till date.
!anticommunists !burgers !forumposters !engineering
Someone tag antibharatia too
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Maruti has two selling points, price and mileage. These are all you need to dominate Indian market. Also easier to find parts and affiliated garages but that's just effect of dominance.
When 800 was first marketed only the upper class used to own cars here. It was the first middle class car. Aesthetics didn't really matter lol.
A few hundred jets and consumer goods aren't the same lol. The Soviet union had 75% USA's GDP per capita in 1990, they were roughly similarly prosperous countries. Obviously goods designed for Soviet consumers would be unaffordable for most here.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
tbf if i had to pick between a bajaj scooter or a currycel yugo, i'm going with the yugo
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
No, it didn't. You only get to 75% by using a PPP adjustment, which is basically, "People in the USSR make nearly nothing but also get charged nearly nothing when they can manage to buy things at state shops."
PPP is a fraught comparison for the U.S. vs. Soviet economy for all sorts of reasons:
PPP assumes equilibrium pricing for supply/demand because it doesn't model scarcity. Products, especially cars, were extraordinarily scarce in the USSR. What value, PPP-wise, is a car that costs half as much but gets delivered on 10 years?
Most premium goods were sold at "foreign currency stores" that had restricted access. PPP falls apart when you can't actually buy many goods with your local currency.
Subsidies distorted commodity prices. Plenty of countries subsidize, but when you do so to the point of scarcity, the subsidized price ceases to be useful for PPP.
Many things in the USSR weren't sold at all and were allocated by party membership and other non-monetary factors.
PPP is a good measure of how far local money goes, but it can only measure that if it's not distorted with scarcity (rather than higher prices) and market control of who can buy what.
!anticommunists
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Look man I'm not a commie but Russia was(and still is) a fairly prosperous country, they were spraying crops with planes in the 1920s, had decently planned out cities with metros and high rise apartments by the 70s, they might not have been as prosperous as atlantic world but its absurd to say Indian middle classes had purchasing power comparable to Russian middle classes in the 80s. Yeah cars weren't as common in Russia as they were in USA even 50 years prior but those who did buy them were obviously not as pressed for cash as Indian middle classes of the time. Thus different design philosophies which was my main point.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Is this how your r-slurred brain works? "Someone challenged a premise I had, so they must have the opposite conclusion, too."
Of course Indians were poorer than Soviets. It doesn't mean your figure of Soviets having 75% the wealth of Americans is sensible.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
you are a commie indeed
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
I don't know what you're smoking man, but lay off it
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
That's impossible in nominal numbers as
@syscoshill mentioned. Soviet nominal GDP was never much more than 50% that of the US back in the days. The USSR also had a larger population than the US so the per-capita would have been even lower
!neolibs
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
@ObamaBinLaden say this as a feminist ally that Maruti is no trailblazer in either price or mileage, sir
@ObamaBinLaden is saying if you start from zero it's the best possible way too start with a car which has the most aesthetic appeal. If you start with a shit design car, the ecosystem you build around it will be shit. You only needed too choose a good design. The Japanese kei cars (city cars) were already optimized for price and mileage (compared too their purchasing power).
You are building with cheaper labor and domestic produced accessories like seat leather so the cost will automatically come down.
With shit car and shit ecosystem, the subsequent generations were shit too. That is why maruti could never become an exporter.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
When you look at a car's price in india do keep in mind the roughly 50% tax(higher for SUVs and sedans longer than 4 meters). In 1983 800 retailed at 47500 INR-4750 USD. So I'm assuming actual build price was somewhere under 3k USD. I can't find exact figures but Google's telling me compact Japanese cars cost around 8000 USD in 1983. So no it was much cheaper than Japanese contemporary cars. I also doubt those Japanese cars would have survived our roads in 1983, 800s did. Nowadays you see the last of them most commonly in mountains where drivers love their pickup on inclines.
Labour is cheaper but less efficient and manpower isn't that large a share of car costs anyway. And it isn't like steel here sells for less than global prices because everything from mining to factory labour is cheaper.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
@ObamaBinLaden don't understand what you are trying too say. @ObamaBinLaden said choose a better design, because better design leads too even better evolutions. @ObamaBinLaden did not say import Japanese cars
@ObamaBinLaden say this as a feminist ally
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Better designs cost more money.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Not of you're copying
@ObamaBinLaden say this as a feminist ally
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
No I mean materiels themselves. Basically they're unsafe and cheap and have good mileage despite shit engines cause they are pushing limits of how little metal you can use on a car.
And TBH we haven't reverse engineered a single thing ever. Our leaders love pretending to they're from countries rich enough to give a shit about foreigner's IP rights. Generic meds are like single thing where govt holds the fort instead of acting as a merc for westoid capitalists.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
This is the wildest jeet story I've heard since the Mahabarata. Russia was always poor compared to Eastern Europe, which was poor compared to Western Europe, which wasn't quite at the level of the USA. And the more distant parts of the USSR were poor compared to Russia. If you look at Russia in 1980, an ordinary person had terrible housing, no car. You couldn't even choose what you wanted to eat for dinner because you had to get whatever was in stock at the store that day. And that meant somebody had to wait in line for a couple hours. It's absolutely ludicrous to think the standard of living was anything approaching America. Russians didn't even claim that. And that's at the high point of the Soviet Union.
By 1990 the economy was completely disintegrating. They couldn't even keep the stores stocked with food. It was maybe a couple years after this when my family put together a care package for a family in Vladivostok. We put stuff like toothbrushes in there because even the most basic necessities just weren't being distributed.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Their economic model and insistence on autarky led to shortages of many basic goods yes. But they were also at cutting edge of a lot of things at the same time and fairly prosperous in terms of industrial goods, they had mass washing machine, refrigerator ownership since Stalin ffs. It wasn't like they couldn't afford food basically, they weren't poor in money terms, just they weren't shielded from production shortfalls by participation in global market and of course refusal to increase prices wouldn't help.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
A few things related to space and the military which were of no use to people in their daily life. Even here they were way behind the US in aircraft, radar, sonar, submarines, ships, communications, anything involving computers...
It's a lot easier to have one in every household when every household is 12 people from 3 generations stuck together in the same apartment. In the US we already had a significant part of the population with color television already in the 1960s.
Look at meat specifically. They were absolutely not able to afford as much meat as Americans.
Just in terms of housing, cars, food, consumer electronics, and everything else a person might actually want.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context
If someone made an ugly car with like no plastic and just exposed metal inside for trim, but it got 50MPG and cost $5k they would sell a zillion of them IN USA
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Tata nano cost like 2k USD when it launched. There was zero interest in foreign markets even developing countries.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
More options
Context
More options
Context
More options
Context