TracingWoodgrains linked me to this twitter thread.
I comprehend the peril of our reality much better having read it.
But first I want to ask: whose fault is it that we are in a divided reality?
The people who indulged Trump in 'alternative facts.' That's the root of it all. That's why it's ultimately the rightoid's fault we're in this problem, and pointing fingers doesn't help matters but there's also nothing we can do.
Because some or much of what's in that twitter thread is true, but what's more important is what people believe to be true.
What people on the left believe to be true, is:
The Trump campaign colluded with Russia in the 2016 election. Trump asked for help on national television from Russia in what will be remembered as a betrayal of the national integrity that fully justifies the investigation into his campaign. That may not be something people on the right believe, but this isn't about what people on the right believe. This is about what you can ask people on the left to believe.
The Mueller Report didn't exonerate Trump, it was incredibly darning. You can't ask people on the left to believe otherwise.
The 2020 election was more or less above board because Trump was unpopular. You can't ask people on the left to believe otherwise.
Trump was unpopular because he was dangerous to our collective sense of reality. He has successfully fragmented it. No amount of asking the left to understand the right can work because, and this part is key: the story they tell you isn't relevant. This twitter guy? He's understanding and compassionate.
January 6th was an insurrection by a mob riled up by a boomer who lost an election. You can't ask people on the left to believe otherwise.
But it doesn't matter when you read the story of the crowd because in the end it's just a story some people believe.
And when it comes to identifying fascism, which is to say, identifying the living breathing collective organism that tells lies to achieve power... it doesn't matter what they say they believe. They want Trump in power and just feel vaguely that it isn't right he isn't and they're acting on it to further divide the nation.
It's understandable that people don't trust Democrats, the security establishment. Because they shouldn't be trusted.
But nor can you ask anyone to trust this reality TV star who, I repeat, asked Russia for help on live television which was then granted.
How did we get here?
There were a bunch of people who thought it made sense to watch 'two screens.' One of those screens was informed by the blatant lies, the 'alternative facts', of a boomer who expressed open admiration for dictatorship. Who then followed up on that admiration with a dictatorial move on January 6th.
I read William Barr's memoir, you know. I came away from it with admiration for William Barr.
He closes by darning Trump.
I also read Mark Esper's memoir.
He closes by darning Trump.
There is no sympathy for those who bound their fates with a loser. There can be none, for then you are stuck in the loser's reality, fighting a losing war against someone who will not believe the truth.
The only lesson that can be gained is: if someone openly encourages 'alternative facts' in public discourse, take them to the village square and stone them.
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I only have to be responsible for knowing the truth, not accommodating the narrative of people who need to be shouted down because they're wrong, like antivaxxers. And the wrongness has become ever more dangerous. The Big Lie continues to grip the nation. They need to be shown they're a minority and they'll fold, but in the meantime all manner of chaos seems likely to break loose this summer and we may well have a civil war.
This is the point at which I look back at TheMotte and sigh. I tried. But it's an iceberg that can't be budged. I just tried to say 'this is fascism, this is what fascism looks like, the fascists are here.' and got told that I was imagining this goddarn wolf lmao.
I laugh about it because it's genuinely funny. But I am concerned about this summer.
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I didn't see it until now; thanks for the ping.
I don't know, man. People talk about truth as if it matters, as if by showing someone what is true you can change their worldview one iota. And sometimes you can! But most of the time even if you can get them to accept something, they nod, take whatever truth you've indicated, integrate it into their own values-laden map, and carry on. You're fighting against people with some mistaken beliefs, but the values are what matter.
People don't fold when they're shown they're minorities. Not if their sentiments are deep enough. Shouting them down and telling them they should just recognize they're outnumbered and fold is asking for war. It doesn't work. It's never worked. Identity runs deeper than that.
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Absolutely they do. This is what happens when leftoids flame out of places like TheMotte.
I don't think you're quite listening to me in the sense that I haven't quite made myself clear.
I'm not talking about people, I'm talking about me and you. The truth matters. What people are willing to entertain as a means of approaching the truth matters. When racists are allowed to set the agenda as far as how race and IQ get introduced to the conversation has a certain way of affecting the racism of the participants of that conversation and increasing it in ample fashion.
You, presumably, may agree with the sentiment that the leftoid-inspired taboo on race and IQ is destructive to effective education. That's not a racist observation to make. It may be insensitive to air in the wrong crowd. That's what makes it a taboo, if you're making people uncomfortable. The only people who want to fight the taboo tend to have a mixed motive. You can land on the wrong side of the paradox of tolerance.
This is the moderate liberal position on discourse across the divide. I'm perfectly capable of listening to the values of the moderate conservative viewpoint largely through direct personal experience.
But this isn't about values, it's about the writing on the wall. You know about the writing on the wall, right? The ones the leftists have been screaming hoarse about? The "this is fascism" wolf call?
I'm not talking about fixing discourse. I'm talking about what you believe is true.
You come from a Mormon background, you've seen the fusion of church and state. You might perceive an ideological horror, an eldritch terror called 'the left' which seems to want to infiltrate every crevasse of individual agency and institute thought control. This was known in the 90s and we survived. They sure are annoying, those leftists.
But the left still fundamentally elects Democrats who are corrupt but keep the system which is keeping us alive running.
What we have had for six long years now is the growth of a functionally fascist movement. What you've done during that time is moderate a forum which platformed the 14 words once upon a time and maintains itself as a refuge for those willing to talk race and IQ.
Because: the construct of the two screens narrative has become the primary means of viewing politics. I agree that there's two screens, but arguing that one party bears responsibility for what the other party puts in their screen is a form of insane mugging.
One of them will either eventually undergo narrative decoherence and become a mishmash of values instead of argument, or we will have a civil war. Do you understand that? Do you understand how close to civil war we are?
I'm not trying to blame you (or really any of the mods) for this devolution because the politics forum is a microcosm of a larger culture. Fascinating fricking stuff man. The whole thing is just nuts.
The mods were right, I got insulting and demeaning. It was uncivil discourse that I brought. The shade thrown at me was substantial and lmao boy was it fricking nerdy. That "bet me or shut up" shit still has me laughing. I gave as good as I got because the bar had already been lowered for me by others. Evaporative cooling cannon, basically.
I can't claim responsibility for how things went because the Internet is for yelling shit, and taking Internet politics too seriously, apparently, leads to TheMotte.
Well you have to truly outnumber them. And you must be willing to use those numbers. And you had better darn well understand that this 'asking for war' talk is another mugging. But "You will lose the war" is a pretty darn good implicit message to be able to send.
Thus: we need numbers. Only the most moderate planks of a platform. Think on it.
The reason I was at SSC anyway was I trusted that there would be independent-minded writers there. There were, just not as many of them as I'd hoped and a surfeit of the pure literal ruined the whole project. I don't think I wasted my time because the discourse path of the culture war threads tracked mainstream pretty accurately so I got a decent picture of what people are talking about.
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